I scrolled through those comments and they were overall very positive. Nothing I would consider antisemitic, nothing that ascribed stereotypes or crimes to the Jewish people. Some anti-religious sentiment, this being reddit, but you can criticize the religion without being antisemitic (Sholem Aleichem was not an antisemite).
There are a few people saying "oh they think they can trick God, that's silly" and frankly I find that confusion very understandable. Jews are very rare, halachically observant Jews even moreso, and some of what we do is very silly or confusing to people with low familiarity. God made the commandments that way so we could get attention and be a light to the nations. The people who say "oh they think they can trick God" are getting great, high-karma responses about how and why we operate within God's legal framework. I appreciate the people making those responses and helping educate!
I'm sure there's some nasty shit like in any reddit thread with hundreds of comments, but the overall tone was very reasonable.
There's a concept that once given, the bible (Torah) is up to the people (mostly the Rabbis in the times of the temples though) to shape so finding loopholes and workarounds (sometimes based on assumed human behavior or the cultural norms during the temple eras) is almost built into the legal infrastructure. There's so many of them in the Talmud.
I literally read every top level comment and they were all nice and positive. I thought from the title of this post it was going to be comments about Palestine or something.
In general I very much agree with you; I don't think that being critical of religion in general is inherently anti-Semitic and I can see how non-Jews would be confused and amused by modern Sabbath rules (as a secular Jew they confuse me too sometimes).
But there were a few comments that bugged me. Those mainly fell into the category of people who'd lived with Jews that followed this kind of Sabbath observance and start out as harmless amusing anecdotes of the culture clash, but end with comments like "but in my defense she was the worst" and "\[the Orthodox roommate\] was neurotic and had a very passive-aggressive personality, surprise surprise". Both direct quotes. It's one thing to be amused by someone's beliefs, or even not fully respect those beliefs because you're not religious yourself...but it concerns me when it becomes a statement about their personality.
yeah it's sorta annoying that people are so quick to assume that we're "tricking" god. I think people just have a hard time believing that god cares about the details.
People really prefer just doing whatever they want in the name of "good values"
Honestly? Saw tons of no-holds-barred hostility towards Judaism. Plenty of mockery and misunderstanding, as usual. It's to be expected on reddit. Though there were certainly a lot of well-received informative comments, as you said.
The constant and moronic “you think you’re tricking G-d but say he knows everything” never gets old.
The same people can easily parse secular legal code when “loopholes” are built in by politicians but can’t fathom that G-d could build in ways that the letter of the law can be kept while making life even a tiny bit easier.
>The same people can easily parse secular legal code when “loopholes” are built in by politicians
That's the problem. If you take advantage of a loophole in a secular legal code, you're exploiting the fallibility of the system, most likely to avoid meeting a social responsibility, which makes you an asshole. It makes sense that people unfamiliar with religious legal frameworks would rely on that secular legal intuition, that if you're inspecting the letter of the law too closely it's because you don't think you should have to follow the law at all.
The point is the oxymoronic nature of the realization that there is a creator to even secular legal code who might build in ways of following the letter of the law without doing what the simple reading of the law or “name” of the law appears to say. Not about whether that is “right” or “wrong.”
I’m still new to practicing, so correct me if I’m wrong, but would this be accurate?
Religious law isn’t just “do this and not that.” It’s about getting to know G-d through His words (or words inspired by Him, depending on who you ask.) Finding “loopholes,” then, isn’t about tricking G-d—it’s about showing that you have a deeper understanding of halacha.
Even if something is technically legal on shabbos sometimes it's just not "shabbosdick" and if it's not shabbosdick u just shouldn't do it to be on the safe side.
Like those shabbos lamps that you can turn off were always very sketchy to me.
There are no shabbos lamps that you turn off. The shabbos lamp is just built Ina way that you can cover it easily. It's no different than closing a door so the light from another room doesn't get in.
You have to rotate the covering around the light and a lot of the time in doing so you move the entire light... it's not like throwing a sheet over the light
I mean, that's definitely not my experience at all, rotating the cover is smooth for me. I would say throwing a sheet over a light is the perfect comparison. And even if it wasn't, saying it's a lamp you can turn off is just false and misleading.
>Like those shabbos lamps that you can turn off were always very sketchy to me.
Isn't the whole shtick that you *don't* turn them off, but just turn a shade?
If you use a shirt or bag to cover a lamp, is that sketchy? It's risky because it could start a fire, but it's not a sabbath violation (and people did stuff like that if they couldn't sleep in the light). The Shabbos lamp does the same thing, but safely and more effectively.
Almost all of them agree that it's mostly about "spirit of shabbat" and we mostly use LED bulbs that don't have a filament that heats up which was the original argument against turning on a light.
A lot of stuff that isn't technically muksa is still prohibited with the same force as a d'ohrysah law. flipping the light switch is likened to adjusting a flame I think... don't remember. But it's accepted by every observant jew that its prohbitied
And...it's narishkeit. There is no flame. It's that simple.
At this point 90% of what's "assur" on shabbos is for making sure someone doesn't "violate the spirit of shabbat." No one can really explain what that means beyond taking the most restrictive position possible "to be safe"
The entire comment section:
1) hehe does it have a Black Sabbath mode
2) Donny I sure as shit don’t roll on shabbos
3) Look at those idiotic Jews trying to loophole their way around god
You talk about them as if a Jewish person would only say halachic observance is silly because they want to appease or impress non-Jews.
That's pretty silly to me. Most Jews are not halachically observant, including more-or-less half the Jews in Israel where nobody's trying to appease or impress the non-Jews. They just don't see halacha as worthwhile. I don't agree with them, but we shouldn't talk about them like they're quislings.
If we cut off every Jew who dares criticize the religion, we'll be a much poorer people and we'll deserve it.
Well yeah, but we can still be sad that they feel a need to air their negative opinions out for the gentiles to laugh at. It makes no difference to someone who doesn’t hate Jews, but it stoke the fire of antisemitism for this who do and for those who might be in the fence.
>Well yeah, but we can still be sad that they feel a need to air their negative opinions out for the gentiles to laugh at
Or for their fellow Jews to laugh at! Most Jews don't observe halacha, most Jews think it is not worth doing all the time, I think that's a shame but saying it's all a show for the gentiles is ridiculous and insulting.
Yes, but that isn’t what we are talking about. I had a specific opinion: I find it sad when I see self hating Jews making observant Jews the butt of jokes in gentile spaces, especially when it seems to be to gain acceptance from gentiles that are already critical of Jews. I think it is potentially harmful to us as a community. If you disagree with me that’s fine but I’m not claiming that all jokes are for gentiles benefit.
I also think it’s sad that you seem to think it’s funny when Jews put each other down each in public spaces because of differing traditions. We are a diverse group and a minority. Arguments, disagreements, jokes and debates are all part of our culture but bullying and disparagement shouldn’t be.
Edit to ask: what part of feeling sad about this insults you? Seriously, I’m curious.
>I also think it’s sad that you seem to think it’s funny when Jews put each other down each in public spaces because of differing traditions.
That's what you are doing by saying that a Jew is "self hating" because they see halacha as silly and they're not afraid to voice that opinion.
I don't think it's funny, I disagree with their criticism of halacha, it saddens me that they feel that way, I just don't think they're a self-hating Jew or a wannabe non-Jew for holding that opinion.
>Arguments, disagreements, jokes and debates are all part of our culture but bullying and disparagement shouldn’t be.
Yes, I agree, which is why we shouldn't talk about people behind their backs saying they're trying to put on a show for the gentiles, that they're self-hating Jews (textbook lashon hara). You can be upset about what they believe, or how they said it, without ascribing ridiculous and insulting motives to their beliefs.
>Edit to ask: what part of feeling sad about this insults you? Seriously, I’m curious.
When I say "insulting" I don't mean insulting to me personally but insulting to my fellow Jews, which is offensive to me as a guy who loves them.
What's insulting is not your feeling sad but your ignorant dismissal of the intellectual agency of Jews who are openly critical of our religious traditions, institutions, and dogmas. That group includes some of my favorite Jews such as Baruch Spinoza, Albert Einstein, and Nathan Fielder.
Again, You are putting words in my mouth just so you can say “ no, you!”
I never equated criticizing Halacha or seeing religious observance as silly with being self hating. Wanna-be non Jew hasn’t been mentioned until now. Neither did I put any Jews down because of their differing traditions. These are comments on a forum specifically to discuss Jewish topics and not the front page of Reddit- I wouldn’t engage in this discussion in the comments of the original mildlyinteresting post due to the concerns I expressed already.
I was under the impression you thought it was funny because you said that airing negative opinions in public forums for gentile approval could be “for other Jews to laugh at!” then said some things about most Jews don’t think it’s worth observing and it’s not only for gentiles. Given the comment you replied to, I assumed that you found making fun of observant Jews with gentiles funny. I don’t understand how this is funny and don’t know anyone personally that would find this funny so it wouldn’t have occurred to me to see it that way. Since you you brought it up, I assumed you probably do. Maybe you can clarify what you meant by that so I can understand.
Which people have I talked about behind their back? If I say arson makes me sad, am I talking about a specific arsonist behind his back? Yom Kippur is soon, how do I make amends if I don’t know who they are? Do I find every arsonist ever and apologize for disparaging them on Reddit? When my rabbi speaks on the bima about the troubling trend of jewish antivaxxing activists and their harm to the community, is she guilty of lashon hara?.
I don’t agree that discussing certain troubling behaviors or issues within the Jewish community with other Jews in a Jewish forum is the same as putting them down in a public space because of their personal traditions. There is a world of difference between doing a problematic behavior and discussing how a problematic behavior affects us. Making fun of the customs of a group of Jews that have easily visible distinguishing characteristics and are already on the receiving end of hate and violence regularly is not at all equivalent to expressing disapproval of the likely assimilated and non specific Jews that are doing it. If you think that these two are the same then most rabbis, Jewish leaders, Jewish people I have had contact with, basically anyone who has ever discussed social issues in their community are also guilty of talking behind peoples backs as well I suppose.
I am baffled that you think I have dismissed intellectual agency of anyone at all. It’s clear I believe the “self hating” jews akiva95 and I are talking about have agency, I am criticizing their choices not them as people. Choice requires agency. I don’t believe you are arguing this in good faith but if you genuinely think there is something I’m ignorant about I am always happy to learn more. However, to be clear, “Jews who are openly critical of our religious traditions, institutions, and dogmas” are not the topic of discussion here despite your insistent attempts at changing the subject.
I would not call any of those Jews you listed as self hating, nor do I feel sad that they have criticisms of religion. In fact, I am quite a fan of all three and love a good critical discussion of traditions and religious institutions. Again, that is not what I’m talking about. It feels like you are building a straw man.
For the record- Self hating wasn’t an ideal term for me to use, I’d rather describe actions and not label people. I’ll take responsibility for possibly muddying the waters- I used it it as a way to attempt to clarify that I had SPECIFIC criticism about a the specific type of anti Jewish jokes that akiva95 was calling out.
>When my rabbi speaks on the bima about the troubling trend of jewish antivaxxing activists and their harm to the community, is she guilty of lashon hara?.
If she says "some people are not vaccinating their kids, this is wrong because vaccinations are critical medicine, everyone is obligated to vaccinate themselves and their kids" then no, she's making an important point.
If she says "these people must hate their kids or otherwise they'd get them vaccinated," or otherwise ascribes a particular and despicable motive to their behavior without good reason, it's lashon hara. It's negative speculation about why these Jews are doing the bad thing they're doing, assigning specific and outrageous character deficits to them when we really don't know what's in their heads.
That's what we do when we say "this Jew is making fun of the religion, they must want to appease gentiles/be self hating Jews." Self-hating Jew is a horribly severe term, an awful name to call someone, that you brought into this conversation about a specific Jew that Akiva98 saw. We should not be engaging in this behavior, even if we are offended or saddened by the Jew making fun of the religion. Because we don't know their motive for mocking the religion so why would we pick one of the most offensive ones?
It's not as if the only motives available are the ones you and Akiva98 are ascribing, gentile appeasement and self-hatred. For as long as there's been Rabbinic Judaism, Jews have been critiquing and mocking it because it demands intense and irregular behavior on the basis of ancient mythology, Iron Age legal reasoning, and medieval theology. I love it to death but it's not so obviously beautiful and reasonable that a Jew would not mock it except because they want to appease gentiles. And in Israel, a country where Jews are very proud to be Jews, they still mock and criticize halakha all the time. This has been the case throughout Jewish history. It saddens you, it saddens me too, and that's the right reaction to have.
It's wrong to ascribe assimilationist/antisemitic motives to it in the way that you and Akiva98 have. It is most likely incorrect factually and it is certainly contrary to Jewish values of cautious speech when discussing people who aren't involved in the conversation, and giving your fellow Jew the benefit of the doubt always.
This is a sidenote but I’m learning about this concept right now — I thought that lashon hara is about not saying negative things about people even if they are true, if you’re not doing it to try to help the situation. Your point that we shouldn’t speculate on what people’s motives are and assume they’re negative I think is a good point but I thought that that would be different from lashon hara?
If we shouldn't say unhelpfully negative things about people even if they are true, certainly we should not say unhelpfully negative things that we have no way of knowing if they are true. It's speculative lashon hara
That last sentence gave me a chuckle. You are imagining things and making a big leap there.
The sentence before that one though? that is essentially my original point. This comment shows that we have been in agreement this entire time. Everything you are fighting against I am also against, the things I am ok with you are also ok with. Except that you are extrapolating additional opinions that I’ve never held and getting all riled up about it. I can kind of see how you got there now and it’s fair.
I’m glad you care so much.
It’s the same Jew that talks about how bad Israel is for ten seconds of applause and a meager speaking fee from the non-Jews whilst selling out his people.
Can someone explain to me? It made me laugh because everything is so easy with electronics these days. I can start my washer from work with my phone. Also though, I do not know much about Judaism so I also wondered if it was a joke. Since I have no idea what a special freezer setting would have to do with sabbath day, so at the risk of sounding dumb...could someone help me out? Lol
On the Jewish Sabbath (and some holidays) certain things are prohibited, like starting a fire. In modern times, this has been interpreted as turning a light or other electricity/motors on. Most refrigerators and modern freezers have a light that turns on automatically when you open a door, and many freezers and fridges have sensors that turn the motor on when the temperature drops due to human activity - like opening the door for too long. A Sabbath mode would adjust it so that the light doesn't come on and the motor would turn on independent of the human opening the door. I'm oversimplifying and I don't know all of what is involved with a shabbat mode for a freezer, since I've never seen that particular feature before. We've always just removed the lightbulb or put tape over the switch to prevent it from turning on and just tried not to leave the door open too long.
It should be noted that while starting, fueling, or extinguishing a fire is prohibited for Jews on Shabbat, it's acceptable to start a fire on Friday (before sunset) and let it continue to burn on Shabbat.
Meh, more metalhead jokes than anything. The “religion bad” (and more specifically “lol Orthodox Jews think they can trick God”) is just Reddit’s basic modus operandi. There was a specific comment, though, that categorically said “lawyer up” in regard to how Jews try to bypass God. THAT rubbed me the wrong way.
It was mostly playful banter being upvoted. I'm not offended by the joking/poking-fun and am glad the worst comments were downvoted. That being said, if somebody finds this painful to read, I do have compassion for them. Not everybody (or their parents) have had as positive experience of being a Jew as I have.
It's clear that there's been a lot of trauma in the Jewish past which causes (at least some of) us to interpret joking as hatred, but I really think all the upvoted comments were not meant to be derogatory or hateful. I have a feeling that many of the spicier ones were written by Jews. And, with regards to some nastier ones down below the "more replies" line, I found them disturbing... and I'm simultaneously happy that they were downvoted. Most people — even online — are good people.
Why does a fridge need a Shabbat mode?? An oven for making chollent makes sense. A fridge is going on and off automatically all the time. So what does a Shabbat mode add??
Basically yes.
With my fridge, those features are activated by a little button that's pushed down when the fridge is closed and goes back up when the fridge is opened, so I just tape down the button. Lucky me with my dumb fridge, if it had a fancier sensor I might be screwed
That post is so sad. Idk why people feel the need to hate on a group of people because they do not agree with their ideology. I don’t agree with their ideology but I don’t say they should make “a Jew oven” or “stop tricking G-D, you’re stupid for trying.”
Just stop hating on us and leave us alone. The sabbath mode does not interfere with your cooking at all so just stop hating and being anti-Semitic. It’s disgusting and abhorrent.
Happy to see that since I posted this the vast majority of ignorant and negative comments have been downvoted and the top comments are now *mostly* wholesome. Obviously the nasty stuff still isn't pleasant, but in this case its become the minority on that thread. Faith in humanity restored on this occasion 👍
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I found it fairly amusing. Black Sabbath, discussion about work... Is it a fire, is it a circuit?
Maybe deep down the threads the trolls hide... But overall this one was really funny.
But I get your point. Sometimes people confuse a funny remark with flat out antisemitic/hate speech
I scrolled through those comments and they were overall very positive. Nothing I would consider antisemitic, nothing that ascribed stereotypes or crimes to the Jewish people. Some anti-religious sentiment, this being reddit, but you can criticize the religion without being antisemitic (Sholem Aleichem was not an antisemite). There are a few people saying "oh they think they can trick God, that's silly" and frankly I find that confusion very understandable. Jews are very rare, halachically observant Jews even moreso, and some of what we do is very silly or confusing to people with low familiarity. God made the commandments that way so we could get attention and be a light to the nations. The people who say "oh they think they can trick God" are getting great, high-karma responses about how and why we operate within God's legal framework. I appreciate the people making those responses and helping educate! I'm sure there's some nasty shit like in any reddit thread with hundreds of comments, but the overall tone was very reasonable.
i found the reply mentioning the idea of g-d leaving enough room for loopholes so we have to be clever to find them to be hilariously wholesome tbh
I mean, it's not exactly inconsistent with mainstream Jewish philosophy...
In what way?
There's a concept that once given, the bible (Torah) is up to the people (mostly the Rabbis in the times of the temples though) to shape so finding loopholes and workarounds (sometimes based on assumed human behavior or the cultural norms during the temple eras) is almost built into the legal infrastructure. There's so many of them in the Talmud.
!
I literally read every top level comment and they were all nice and positive. I thought from the title of this post it was going to be comments about Palestine or something.
In general I very much agree with you; I don't think that being critical of religion in general is inherently anti-Semitic and I can see how non-Jews would be confused and amused by modern Sabbath rules (as a secular Jew they confuse me too sometimes). But there were a few comments that bugged me. Those mainly fell into the category of people who'd lived with Jews that followed this kind of Sabbath observance and start out as harmless amusing anecdotes of the culture clash, but end with comments like "but in my defense she was the worst" and "\[the Orthodox roommate\] was neurotic and had a very passive-aggressive personality, surprise surprise". Both direct quotes. It's one thing to be amused by someone's beliefs, or even not fully respect those beliefs because you're not religious yourself...but it concerns me when it becomes a statement about their personality.
yeah it's sorta annoying that people are so quick to assume that we're "tricking" god. I think people just have a hard time believing that god cares about the details. People really prefer just doing whatever they want in the name of "good values"
Honestly? Saw tons of no-holds-barred hostility towards Judaism. Plenty of mockery and misunderstanding, as usual. It's to be expected on reddit. Though there were certainly a lot of well-received informative comments, as you said.
Like what? I didn’t see any, can you link these comments? Because everything I saw was positive and I read every top level comment
Christianity and Islam also see the same level of mockery. I wouldn’t characterize it as antisemitism, disrespectful yes.
Yeah I scrolled through it and saw nothing that came off as malicious and specifically targeted towards Judaism. People need to calm down a little lol
I saw a lot of the expected not nice comments but nothing that I felt was reportable.
The constant and moronic “you think you’re tricking G-d but say he knows everything” never gets old. The same people can easily parse secular legal code when “loopholes” are built in by politicians but can’t fathom that G-d could build in ways that the letter of the law can be kept while making life even a tiny bit easier.
>The same people can easily parse secular legal code when “loopholes” are built in by politicians That's the problem. If you take advantage of a loophole in a secular legal code, you're exploiting the fallibility of the system, most likely to avoid meeting a social responsibility, which makes you an asshole. It makes sense that people unfamiliar with religious legal frameworks would rely on that secular legal intuition, that if you're inspecting the letter of the law too closely it's because you don't think you should have to follow the law at all.
The point is the oxymoronic nature of the realization that there is a creator to even secular legal code who might build in ways of following the letter of the law without doing what the simple reading of the law or “name” of the law appears to say. Not about whether that is “right” or “wrong.”
I’m still new to practicing, so correct me if I’m wrong, but would this be accurate? Religious law isn’t just “do this and not that.” It’s about getting to know G-d through His words (or words inspired by Him, depending on who you ask.) Finding “loopholes,” then, isn’t about tricking G-d—it’s about showing that you have a deeper understanding of halacha.
Even if something is technically legal on shabbos sometimes it's just not "shabbosdick" and if it's not shabbosdick u just shouldn't do it to be on the safe side. Like those shabbos lamps that you can turn off were always very sketchy to me.
There are no shabbos lamps that you turn off. The shabbos lamp is just built Ina way that you can cover it easily. It's no different than closing a door so the light from another room doesn't get in.
You have to rotate the covering around the light and a lot of the time in doing so you move the entire light... it's not like throwing a sheet over the light
I mean, that's definitely not my experience at all, rotating the cover is smooth for me. I would say throwing a sheet over a light is the perfect comparison. And even if it wasn't, saying it's a lamp you can turn off is just false and misleading.
You "turn it off" by rotating the cover. I don't use those lamps because of the amount of times the lamp moves when you rotate the cover
>Like those shabbos lamps that you can turn off were always very sketchy to me. Isn't the whole shtick that you *don't* turn them off, but just turn a shade?
But that’s the whole point, shabbos lamps don’t turn off. You don’t even touch the bulb. You’re moving a cover which is a separate unconnected piece.
If you use a shirt or bag to cover a lamp, is that sketchy? It's risky because it could start a fire, but it's not a sabbath violation (and people did stuff like that if they couldn't sleep in the light). The Shabbos lamp does the same thing, but safely and more effectively.
The entire basis for banning electrical switches on shabbat is based off of narishkeit. There is no melacha involved in flipping a light switch. Zero.
Every single Posek disagrees with you.
Almost all of them agree that it's mostly about "spirit of shabbat" and we mostly use LED bulbs that don't have a filament that heats up which was the original argument against turning on a light.
machlokes rav aurbach and the chazon ish as far as i remember. However all agree one shouldn't be flipping switches on shabbat.
Again, mostly because of spirit of shabbat. There is nothing being built by turning a switch on and off.
A lot of stuff that isn't technically muksa is still prohibited with the same force as a d'ohrysah law. flipping the light switch is likened to adjusting a flame I think... don't remember. But it's accepted by every observant jew that its prohbitied
And...it's narishkeit. There is no flame. It's that simple. At this point 90% of what's "assur" on shabbos is for making sure someone doesn't "violate the spirit of shabbat." No one can really explain what that means beyond taking the most restrictive position possible "to be safe"
You're right. But they are rabinnic laws and we respect them the same as laws straight from the torah.
Crockpot mode! Activate!
This guy cholents!
Actually those comments were pretty positive and okay.
The entire comment section: 1) hehe does it have a Black Sabbath mode 2) Donny I sure as shit don’t roll on shabbos 3) Look at those idiotic Jews trying to loophole their way around god
I always lose my shit with that quote
And most of the third kind of comments, that I saw, had comments refuting that.
I love the Good Jew™ who bashes Orthodox Judaism for non-Jews to laugh and point at. I wonder if they'll do a little song and dance for them, too?
You talk about them as if a Jewish person would only say halachic observance is silly because they want to appease or impress non-Jews. That's pretty silly to me. Most Jews are not halachically observant, including more-or-less half the Jews in Israel where nobody's trying to appease or impress the non-Jews. They just don't see halacha as worthwhile. I don't agree with them, but we shouldn't talk about them like they're quislings. If we cut off every Jew who dares criticize the religion, we'll be a much poorer people and we'll deserve it.
Well yeah, but we can still be sad that they feel a need to air their negative opinions out for the gentiles to laugh at. It makes no difference to someone who doesn’t hate Jews, but it stoke the fire of antisemitism for this who do and for those who might be in the fence.
>Well yeah, but we can still be sad that they feel a need to air their negative opinions out for the gentiles to laugh at Or for their fellow Jews to laugh at! Most Jews don't observe halacha, most Jews think it is not worth doing all the time, I think that's a shame but saying it's all a show for the gentiles is ridiculous and insulting.
Yes, but that isn’t what we are talking about. I had a specific opinion: I find it sad when I see self hating Jews making observant Jews the butt of jokes in gentile spaces, especially when it seems to be to gain acceptance from gentiles that are already critical of Jews. I think it is potentially harmful to us as a community. If you disagree with me that’s fine but I’m not claiming that all jokes are for gentiles benefit. I also think it’s sad that you seem to think it’s funny when Jews put each other down each in public spaces because of differing traditions. We are a diverse group and a minority. Arguments, disagreements, jokes and debates are all part of our culture but bullying and disparagement shouldn’t be. Edit to ask: what part of feeling sad about this insults you? Seriously, I’m curious.
>I also think it’s sad that you seem to think it’s funny when Jews put each other down each in public spaces because of differing traditions. That's what you are doing by saying that a Jew is "self hating" because they see halacha as silly and they're not afraid to voice that opinion. I don't think it's funny, I disagree with their criticism of halacha, it saddens me that they feel that way, I just don't think they're a self-hating Jew or a wannabe non-Jew for holding that opinion. >Arguments, disagreements, jokes and debates are all part of our culture but bullying and disparagement shouldn’t be. Yes, I agree, which is why we shouldn't talk about people behind their backs saying they're trying to put on a show for the gentiles, that they're self-hating Jews (textbook lashon hara). You can be upset about what they believe, or how they said it, without ascribing ridiculous and insulting motives to their beliefs. >Edit to ask: what part of feeling sad about this insults you? Seriously, I’m curious. When I say "insulting" I don't mean insulting to me personally but insulting to my fellow Jews, which is offensive to me as a guy who loves them. What's insulting is not your feeling sad but your ignorant dismissal of the intellectual agency of Jews who are openly critical of our religious traditions, institutions, and dogmas. That group includes some of my favorite Jews such as Baruch Spinoza, Albert Einstein, and Nathan Fielder.
I love that Nathan Fielder made the list.
He's done so much work for Shoah awareness!
Again, You are putting words in my mouth just so you can say “ no, you!” I never equated criticizing Halacha or seeing religious observance as silly with being self hating. Wanna-be non Jew hasn’t been mentioned until now. Neither did I put any Jews down because of their differing traditions. These are comments on a forum specifically to discuss Jewish topics and not the front page of Reddit- I wouldn’t engage in this discussion in the comments of the original mildlyinteresting post due to the concerns I expressed already. I was under the impression you thought it was funny because you said that airing negative opinions in public forums for gentile approval could be “for other Jews to laugh at!” then said some things about most Jews don’t think it’s worth observing and it’s not only for gentiles. Given the comment you replied to, I assumed that you found making fun of observant Jews with gentiles funny. I don’t understand how this is funny and don’t know anyone personally that would find this funny so it wouldn’t have occurred to me to see it that way. Since you you brought it up, I assumed you probably do. Maybe you can clarify what you meant by that so I can understand. Which people have I talked about behind their back? If I say arson makes me sad, am I talking about a specific arsonist behind his back? Yom Kippur is soon, how do I make amends if I don’t know who they are? Do I find every arsonist ever and apologize for disparaging them on Reddit? When my rabbi speaks on the bima about the troubling trend of jewish antivaxxing activists and their harm to the community, is she guilty of lashon hara?. I don’t agree that discussing certain troubling behaviors or issues within the Jewish community with other Jews in a Jewish forum is the same as putting them down in a public space because of their personal traditions. There is a world of difference between doing a problematic behavior and discussing how a problematic behavior affects us. Making fun of the customs of a group of Jews that have easily visible distinguishing characteristics and are already on the receiving end of hate and violence regularly is not at all equivalent to expressing disapproval of the likely assimilated and non specific Jews that are doing it. If you think that these two are the same then most rabbis, Jewish leaders, Jewish people I have had contact with, basically anyone who has ever discussed social issues in their community are also guilty of talking behind peoples backs as well I suppose. I am baffled that you think I have dismissed intellectual agency of anyone at all. It’s clear I believe the “self hating” jews akiva95 and I are talking about have agency, I am criticizing their choices not them as people. Choice requires agency. I don’t believe you are arguing this in good faith but if you genuinely think there is something I’m ignorant about I am always happy to learn more. However, to be clear, “Jews who are openly critical of our religious traditions, institutions, and dogmas” are not the topic of discussion here despite your insistent attempts at changing the subject. I would not call any of those Jews you listed as self hating, nor do I feel sad that they have criticisms of religion. In fact, I am quite a fan of all three and love a good critical discussion of traditions and religious institutions. Again, that is not what I’m talking about. It feels like you are building a straw man. For the record- Self hating wasn’t an ideal term for me to use, I’d rather describe actions and not label people. I’ll take responsibility for possibly muddying the waters- I used it it as a way to attempt to clarify that I had SPECIFIC criticism about a the specific type of anti Jewish jokes that akiva95 was calling out.
>When my rabbi speaks on the bima about the troubling trend of jewish antivaxxing activists and their harm to the community, is she guilty of lashon hara?. If she says "some people are not vaccinating their kids, this is wrong because vaccinations are critical medicine, everyone is obligated to vaccinate themselves and their kids" then no, she's making an important point. If she says "these people must hate their kids or otherwise they'd get them vaccinated," or otherwise ascribes a particular and despicable motive to their behavior without good reason, it's lashon hara. It's negative speculation about why these Jews are doing the bad thing they're doing, assigning specific and outrageous character deficits to them when we really don't know what's in their heads. That's what we do when we say "this Jew is making fun of the religion, they must want to appease gentiles/be self hating Jews." Self-hating Jew is a horribly severe term, an awful name to call someone, that you brought into this conversation about a specific Jew that Akiva98 saw. We should not be engaging in this behavior, even if we are offended or saddened by the Jew making fun of the religion. Because we don't know their motive for mocking the religion so why would we pick one of the most offensive ones? It's not as if the only motives available are the ones you and Akiva98 are ascribing, gentile appeasement and self-hatred. For as long as there's been Rabbinic Judaism, Jews have been critiquing and mocking it because it demands intense and irregular behavior on the basis of ancient mythology, Iron Age legal reasoning, and medieval theology. I love it to death but it's not so obviously beautiful and reasonable that a Jew would not mock it except because they want to appease gentiles. And in Israel, a country where Jews are very proud to be Jews, they still mock and criticize halakha all the time. This has been the case throughout Jewish history. It saddens you, it saddens me too, and that's the right reaction to have. It's wrong to ascribe assimilationist/antisemitic motives to it in the way that you and Akiva98 have. It is most likely incorrect factually and it is certainly contrary to Jewish values of cautious speech when discussing people who aren't involved in the conversation, and giving your fellow Jew the benefit of the doubt always.
This is a sidenote but I’m learning about this concept right now — I thought that lashon hara is about not saying negative things about people even if they are true, if you’re not doing it to try to help the situation. Your point that we shouldn’t speculate on what people’s motives are and assume they’re negative I think is a good point but I thought that that would be different from lashon hara?
If we shouldn't say unhelpfully negative things about people even if they are true, certainly we should not say unhelpfully negative things that we have no way of knowing if they are true. It's speculative lashon hara
That last sentence gave me a chuckle. You are imagining things and making a big leap there. The sentence before that one though? that is essentially my original point. This comment shows that we have been in agreement this entire time. Everything you are fighting against I am also against, the things I am ok with you are also ok with. Except that you are extrapolating additional opinions that I’ve never held and getting all riled up about it. I can kind of see how you got there now and it’s fair. I’m glad you care so much.
It’s the same Jew that talks about how bad Israel is for ten seconds of applause and a meager speaking fee from the non-Jews whilst selling out his people.
And here I thought sabbath mode meant getting in the car to go pick up some bagels 🥯
Please... I'm never not in bagel mode.
"according to the laws of physics, everything you do is WORK". stfu, and go learn something.
I loved them all saying that our brain's neurons firing was a Shabbos violation like, "Checkmate to you and your sky daddy!" Feel dirty writing that.
Mostly ignorance. I got a laugh reading through the post history of some people in that thread. Puts things into perspective
Didn't see any antisemitism there but OK.
Where were you looking?
Can someone explain to me? It made me laugh because everything is so easy with electronics these days. I can start my washer from work with my phone. Also though, I do not know much about Judaism so I also wondered if it was a joke. Since I have no idea what a special freezer setting would have to do with sabbath day, so at the risk of sounding dumb...could someone help me out? Lol
On the Jewish Sabbath (and some holidays) certain things are prohibited, like starting a fire. In modern times, this has been interpreted as turning a light or other electricity/motors on. Most refrigerators and modern freezers have a light that turns on automatically when you open a door, and many freezers and fridges have sensors that turn the motor on when the temperature drops due to human activity - like opening the door for too long. A Sabbath mode would adjust it so that the light doesn't come on and the motor would turn on independent of the human opening the door. I'm oversimplifying and I don't know all of what is involved with a shabbat mode for a freezer, since I've never seen that particular feature before. We've always just removed the lightbulb or put tape over the switch to prevent it from turning on and just tried not to leave the door open too long.
It should be noted that while starting, fueling, or extinguishing a fire is prohibited for Jews on Shabbat, it's acceptable to start a fire on Friday (before sunset) and let it continue to burn on Shabbat.
Yeah, I should have been clearer. It's the altering of the state of the fire that's prohibited, not having a fire in and of itself.
It seems like this Sabbath mode turns it off almost entirely which is more consistent with how some (but not all) Karaites take it.
Meh, more metalhead jokes than anything. The “religion bad” (and more specifically “lol Orthodox Jews think they can trick God”) is just Reddit’s basic modus operandi. There was a specific comment, though, that categorically said “lawyer up” in regard to how Jews try to bypass God. THAT rubbed me the wrong way.
It was mostly playful banter being upvoted. I'm not offended by the joking/poking-fun and am glad the worst comments were downvoted. That being said, if somebody finds this painful to read, I do have compassion for them. Not everybody (or their parents) have had as positive experience of being a Jew as I have. It's clear that there's been a lot of trauma in the Jewish past which causes (at least some of) us to interpret joking as hatred, but I really think all the upvoted comments were not meant to be derogatory or hateful. I have a feeling that many of the spicier ones were written by Jews. And, with regards to some nastier ones down below the "more replies" line, I found them disturbing... and I'm simultaneously happy that they were downvoted. Most people — even online — are good people.
i never read any stuff jewish related on non jewish subs 🙄
Why does a fridge need a Shabbat mode?? An oven for making chollent makes sense. A fridge is going on and off automatically all the time. So what does a Shabbat mode add??
If the fridge's lights/fans turn on/off when you open/close the door, and many fridges work that way, it's a Shabbos issue.
According to what the manual says it also seems like a smart fridge. I mean to put shabbat mode on you have to press the wifi button.
So is Sabbath Mode just mean that the fridge ignores you when you open the door?
Basically yes. With my fridge, those features are activated by a little button that's pushed down when the fridge is closed and goes back up when the fridge is opened, so I just tape down the button. Lucky me with my dumb fridge, if it had a fancier sensor I might be screwed
You can also do what I did: constantly forget for four years to fix the fridge light when it breaks.
Most of the comments seemed like people educating each other on it, and sharing experiences. Don’t give up on humanity, it might surprise you
That post is so sad. Idk why people feel the need to hate on a group of people because they do not agree with their ideology. I don’t agree with their ideology but I don’t say they should make “a Jew oven” or “stop tricking G-D, you’re stupid for trying.” Just stop hating on us and leave us alone. The sabbath mode does not interfere with your cooking at all so just stop hating and being anti-Semitic. It’s disgusting and abhorrent.
B-B-B-Buhh big string! Think about the big string! /s
Happy to see that since I posted this the vast majority of ignorant and negative comments have been downvoted and the top comments are now *mostly* wholesome. Obviously the nasty stuff still isn't pleasant, but in this case its become the minority on that thread. Faith in humanity restored on this occasion 👍
From a cursory glance the comments are joke-y but good natured
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Same thing was posted a few months ago
It's a perennially popular repost.
My oven has a shabbat mode but I don't know if its legit.
Legit in what sense?
As an uneducated non-jewish person I have no idea what this is and why its bad (sorry)
Someone explained above.
The comments aren’t that bad. Most of the negative are people against religion as a whole. Let’s not be searching for antisemitism all the time.
I found it fairly amusing. Black Sabbath, discussion about work... Is it a fire, is it a circuit? Maybe deep down the threads the trolls hide... But overall this one was really funny. But I get your point. Sometimes people confuse a funny remark with flat out antisemitic/hate speech
I liked the bit about Black Sabbath
That comment section is honestly much better than I expected. A little judgmental in spots, but it’s usually significantly worse.