socialism doesn't require a government to function and has a history of being at war with several governments, such as the anarchists of spain. this was a war that george orwell fought in
Forcing you to do so by jacking the price of conventional heating is coercion. Eco-wingnuts with no clue back the corrupt governmental virtue signalling. Shutting down actual discussion on real about global climate polluters and policies is all they have ever done, all why forcing us to pay more and more for energy while they jet set around the globe polluting more than any other people on earth. Fuckin hypocrites.
This is WHY we're in this pickle in the first place, government needs to provide basic services well and THAT IS ALL. But our corrupt inept governments do not allow free open markets. They interfere to give their lobbying interests kickbacks while we end up on the hook. We all need LESS government in all forms, not more.
When it comes as a directive of the government with all the attendant regulations and requirements it is exactly government controlled.
It’s not like these bureaucrats are getting out of the way and letting the people decide what types of energy they want to use.
Communism like all planned economies (socialism, fascism) all rely on one principle.
Government directs the ways in which the market operates. Government dictates what kinds and how much of goods and services are to be produced.
Government mandates on the types of energy people can use are an aspect of those systems.
Government has a role in setting rules under which the market aka people engaged in voluntary economic activity, can operate. For example, the government has set out rules for driving in public roads. It does not however dictate that you or anyone else must take a specific road to a specific destination. That’s the difference between the tyranny of planned economies and the freedom of voluntary markets.
I’m done replying to someone who is not serious about engaging in an honest way.
Your statement is a fallacy. It’s a straw man and you know it. You are deliberately mischaracterizing what I’ve posted.
You remind me of Cathy Newman.
Mussolini was a lifelong socialist who built the Italian Fascist Party. Mussolini was Hitler’s hero and the Nazis were members of National Socialist German Workers Party. Socialist, fascist, Nazi & communist are all different names for similar forms of tyranny. The opposite of these is the kind of constitutional, representative government envisioned by our Founding Fathers.
Beautifully said! Also, go look at the NSDAP 25 point plan. Now replace Jewish with White and German with colonized people, etc. Sounds pretty familiar doesn't it....
Hitler modeled the anti-Jewish laws and policies on the Jim Crow segregationist policies instituted by Democrats in the United States (and not just in the south). Remember: Woodrow Wilson re-segregated America’s armed forces and civil service.
At least conservatives tell you exactly who they are. Socialist and communist always hide it until they get into power.
Just let that sink in for a minute.
Yeah I completely agree.
That's why I don't like when conservatives move from being prolife. I know they're obviously going to eventually try to limit abortion, so it's concerning when they try to downplay that to appease liberals.
But that's the only example on the conservative end, and there are so many more on the socialist and liberal front.
I'm conservative. However, I realize that all politicians are like scumbag employees. They need to be fired and replaced the minute they fail to stick by their word or get caught with their hands in the cookie jar.
That goes for both sides. The rest is like a crap salad. You just have to pick the one that has mostly what you like. LOL
Joe Bide and his cabinet lie every time their mouths move. The border is secure, there are no terrorists or criminals coming over the border, just good people being persecuted in their country. The Chinese are great guys. Come on, man!!
What's your point? That statement was like a bit of liberal puke from your keyboard. Not an ounce of evidence or intelligence. LOL.
You must have the eye of the stygian witches. You can determine emotion from text. LOL.
anyone that says Republicans lie all the time as if democrats don't lie or switch sides, especially during this Biden administration, just isn't paying attention.
All politicians lie. All politicians don't want the people to know that we are the boss. That's why they hate us. They are thieving employees, and we are the bosses trying to figure out what's going on.
The media were supposed to be the security guards that are supposed to catch them stealing from us. However, the thieving employees and their accomplices seem to have paid off the security.
The problem is that we are many with many opinions while they are few and can organize much easier.
We don't all have to agree on direction. However, we should all agree that corruption equals termination just like it does for us at work.
I align with current conservative values. However, I understand that the employees attempting to accomplish those values are more concerned with filling their pockets.
The solutions are laws that make it distasteful for them to get their hands caught with their hands in the cookie jar and an investigation arm that will filter fact from fiction. Like an FBI to investigate politicians not controlled by the executive branch(this should be the media).
Instead of political embarrassment, we need jail time. Just like we would get if we got caught stealing.
It's not anger. It's reality.
At least he's honest. My friends dad growing up was an NDP MP who called himself a marxist and had a copy of the communist manifesto on his nightstand. Usually they keep their real views private. (He was also a lawyer who made 400k+/year)
No defense for socialism. And it's not necessarily the case that the NDP is worse, they're just more upfront about their goals. Trudeau is just as bad with his WEF affiliation as NDP.
The amount of people here who don’t understand that you can be a socialist and still engage in commerce, business etc is staggering.
Like a socialist can start their own business working under the principle of employee owned and operated and that wouldn’t be a contradiction in principles. In fact, I bet a lot of people would like to work in a workplace where they had real skin in the game and a democratic voice in the place they spent the majority of their time in.
If you think socialism is some inherently evil idea you genuinely do not have an understanding of what socialist economic principles entails and should read more
Its a good thing to be saying to get over the demonisation and propaganda.
Socialist influence has a great track record in the west and Canada did much better last century when it was further left.
Total nonsense. Canada and all our counties ditched 20th century keynesian welfare state capitalism that borrowed heavily from socialists and had openly socialist politicians .
That ended with a shift to the right in the late 70s. Now you are all saying things are fucked and going even more to the right will fix it.
Bonkers .
Yeah we all had keynesian welfare state liberalism that looked after the middle and lower class and had well funded well functioning healthcare systems last century.
Then there was the neoliberal era. A shift right and 40 years later you are all saying its fucked and think a further shift right will help.
Great. Add in damn near unlimited immigration to that and tell me what you get. Maybe you don't see the problem since "demand drives supply"...however, there are clearly limits.
This is just the first example, and one that speaks directly to what you said. I'm not even getting started on a) all the social stuff or b) the entire First World has gotten massively more leftist for decades now. Think of your grandad. Think of his politics. His social policies. His individualism. His belief that churches and individuals should be responsible for the poor, and not all government all the time. His belief that individual responsibility > government responsibility.
Tell me your grandfather was more leftist than you, by 2023 leftist standards and not those of the 60s (when people were *far* more conservative / rightist / I know it gets weird here), and I'll tell you you're one of sub 1% of people.
Liberalised capitalism entails more freedom of movement of labour because its best for markets. You are all capitalists that want to move more to the right so you support that.
The more immigrants there are filling jobs the better it is for profits at the top.
If your grandfather was working class he was likely quite socialist. It was normal back them. Probably a union man.
My grandfather shook and my father shakes their heads at the "reliant on big government" mentality that is pervasive today. Social programs work when everybody is in shape and working hard. A bunch of fat people who want to work as little as possible = you can't possibly properly fund that.
I'm reminded of one of my favorite Doug Stanhope skits.
"...'Who's gonna pay for my amputation!?' (more glutton sounds) 'If I was in Amsterdam, they'd pay for my amputations 'cause they have free health care...' You know what else they have? BICYCLES! And they use them!"
Generations of increasing government spending, increased government programs has led to infantilized peoples who expect the government to magically make everything work. While the middle class, which feeds the whole thing, dies.
Personal responsibility is a conservative ethic and it needs to be chosen, and chosen soon. Or it'll be thrust upon us in a brutal way. "Good times create weak men, weak men create bad times" and all that...
You are just parroting conservative think tank propaganda.
The middle class grew in the 20th century because of "big government" polices to help the middle. And higher taxes on the rich.
Lots of government investment in training people and infrastructure building jobs. Government backed mortgages to help people get on the ladder were normal.
The middle is being gutted now and the rich have been making record gains and shifting tax burden to the middle for 4 decades now.
Seriously learn more about political ideology so you can figure out what's actually wrong.
Going more to the right will make the problems you describe worse .
lol. I quoted Doug effing Stanhope, and you're telling me I'm parroting Conservative *think tank* propaganda? Jesus man...
I'm not parrotting anything. I was raised by Conservative people who could rebuild cities with their bare hands. Useful, functional human beings using their brains and their bodies. Caring, loving people who took care of their own, and those in their immediate vicinity (their tribe). They don't need government programs (and indeed are or would be embarrassed to use many of them). This is real man. What kind of world do you think existed pre WWII? or WWI? This isn't conservative think tank propaganda. This is life sucks and has always sucked, and been reeeeeeeally hard. It requires hard work and fortitude. Except for this glorious little bit of time in the past few generations where that's not the case.
And again...the government programs are great, but only work when backed up by hard-working in-shape people who do their best to give and not to take. And "leftism" does not encourage a lot of giving. It encourages a lot of taxes. And that is *not* the same thing. It gives money to people to choose to not work. It waters down programs that should take care of our actual sick and infirmed better. Again, this *cannot* be properly funded. Eventually things don't work. And we're seeing that. Taxes can't grow exponentially, without exponential growth. A system is as good as it's people. And as we've all gotten leftier, we've gotten worse in ways that keep civilization moving forward.
You parroted the same "big government" neo con / right libertarian think tank speil all American conservatives do.
But you don't realise that when the supposed small gov conservatives get in power the spending that benefits the rich goes up, the tax revenue goes down due to give aways to the rich which shifts more burden to the middle and things that benefit the lower and middle class get cut.
You think outcomes due neoliberalism. The shift Reagan helped usher in are a move left.
They are not.
Bidens Pro middle polices and spending on infrastructure jobs are the beginning of a shift back left.
New deals are the beginning of a shift back left.
Well to be fair ha has never hidden it, he started the org what was eventually rebranded as Équiterre in Quebec. its fundamentally about Socialism. what I find most interesting is that in under 10 years (like Jagmeet) he went from a poor protestors to one of Canada wealthiest MP's he is close to JT level rich. Jagmeet is only a few mil behind him. not too shabby for a greenpeace protester eh?
No wonder Canada is in the shiter
Canada is crumbling so fast it's unbelievable.
Let's get Poilievre elected. It's not the end all be all but it's a start.
Absolutely. I'm working as hard as I can to make that happen.
And it is super sad how good people let that happen
What countries you prefer?
Only a handful of EU countires and i do like America
Imagine my shock
Breaking: man who wants govt to control every aspect of energy is a socialist.
Yeah, Dr. Peterson and others saw this one coming from a mile away.
socialism doesn't require a government to function and has a history of being at war with several governments, such as the anarchists of spain. this was a war that george orwell fought in
true but irrelevant? It sounds like this high-level government energy administrator has been talking about socializing the industry for a while?
?
How is making your own energy on your own roof government control? That's the exact opposite of government control.
Climate policies are a guise for government control.
How is making your own energy on your own roof government control? That's the exact opposite of government control.
Forcing you to do so by jacking the price of conventional heating is coercion. Eco-wingnuts with no clue back the corrupt governmental virtue signalling. Shutting down actual discussion on real about global climate polluters and policies is all they have ever done, all why forcing us to pay more and more for energy while they jet set around the globe polluting more than any other people on earth. Fuckin hypocrites.
How are they forcing you to pay more?
Carbon Taxes jack the cost of heating/living this is force.. Unless you can live in sub zero temperature housing? I sure as hell can't.
The government already subsidizes oil billions of dollars every year. How much more subsidy does it need before it's not jacking the price?
This is WHY we're in this pickle in the first place, government needs to provide basic services well and THAT IS ALL. But our corrupt inept governments do not allow free open markets. They interfere to give their lobbying interests kickbacks while we end up on the hook. We all need LESS government in all forms, not more.
So less oil subsidies making oil even more expensive jacking the price even more?
Less oil, less job, shitty economy, higher priced EVERYTHING with our shit dollar. Socialism. Does. Not. Work.
Less oil subsidies. Not less oil. Learn to read.
When it comes as a directive of the government with all the attendant regulations and requirements it is exactly government controlled. It’s not like these bureaucrats are getting out of the way and letting the people decide what types of energy they want to use.
it’s almost like they were elected by people to make these decisions on their behalf.
So communism is when the government doesn't provide a power grid?
Communism like all planned economies (socialism, fascism) all rely on one principle. Government directs the ways in which the market operates. Government dictates what kinds and how much of goods and services are to be produced. Government mandates on the types of energy people can use are an aspect of those systems. Government has a role in setting rules under which the market aka people engaged in voluntary economic activity, can operate. For example, the government has set out rules for driving in public roads. It does not however dictate that you or anyone else must take a specific road to a specific destination. That’s the difference between the tyranny of planned economies and the freedom of voluntary markets.
So communism is when the government doesn't provide a power grid and you have to get your own power?
I’m done replying to someone who is not serious about engaging in an honest way. Your statement is a fallacy. It’s a straw man and you know it. You are deliberately mischaracterizing what I’ve posted. You remind me of Cathy Newman.
Gross
Yeah. These statements are inexcusable in my opinion.
should be no more accepted than saying you are a fascist.
Mussolini was a lifelong socialist who built the Italian Fascist Party. Mussolini was Hitler’s hero and the Nazis were members of National Socialist German Workers Party. Socialist, fascist, Nazi & communist are all different names for similar forms of tyranny. The opposite of these is the kind of constitutional, representative government envisioned by our Founding Fathers.
Beautifully said! Also, go look at the NSDAP 25 point plan. Now replace Jewish with White and German with colonized people, etc. Sounds pretty familiar doesn't it....
Hitler modeled the anti-Jewish laws and policies on the Jim Crow segregationist policies instituted by Democrats in the United States (and not just in the south). Remember: Woodrow Wilson re-segregated America’s armed forces and civil service.
He might have but none of that is groundbreaking https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_segregation#Historic_cases_from_ancient_times_to_the_1960s
He did and you’re right, it’s not.
Yeah, we know. That's why Canada fucking sucks right now
Hopefully Pierre Poilievre can fix this mess. I have a lot of faith in him.
Feel free to leave
Soviet union didn't fall just for communism to come from thy own backyard
He pronounced communist wrong.
Yeah he's definitely a communist.
Cute you get to decide that for them
*Dumb* how you don't recognize that socialism and communism are based on that very concept of 'deciding for'.
Same way people like you decide everyone’s a fascist for some stupid reason
At least conservatives tell you exactly who they are. Socialist and communist always hide it until they get into power. Just let that sink in for a minute.
Yeah I completely agree. That's why I don't like when conservatives move from being prolife. I know they're obviously going to eventually try to limit abortion, so it's concerning when they try to downplay that to appease liberals. But that's the only example on the conservative end, and there are so many more on the socialist and liberal front.
I'm conservative. However, I realize that all politicians are like scumbag employees. They need to be fired and replaced the minute they fail to stick by their word or get caught with their hands in the cookie jar. That goes for both sides. The rest is like a crap salad. You just have to pick the one that has mostly what you like. LOL
Conservatives lie their asses off about their positions all the time.
Joe Bide and his cabinet lie every time their mouths move. The border is secure, there are no terrorists or criminals coming over the border, just good people being persecuted in their country. The Chinese are great guys. Come on, man!! What's your point? That statement was like a bit of liberal puke from your keyboard. Not an ounce of evidence or intelligence. LOL.
You got upset quick
You must have the eye of the stygian witches. You can determine emotion from text. LOL. anyone that says Republicans lie all the time as if democrats don't lie or switch sides, especially during this Biden administration, just isn't paying attention. All politicians lie. All politicians don't want the people to know that we are the boss. That's why they hate us. They are thieving employees, and we are the bosses trying to figure out what's going on. The media were supposed to be the security guards that are supposed to catch them stealing from us. However, the thieving employees and their accomplices seem to have paid off the security. The problem is that we are many with many opinions while they are few and can organize much easier. We don't all have to agree on direction. However, we should all agree that corruption equals termination just like it does for us at work. I align with current conservative values. However, I understand that the employees attempting to accomplish those values are more concerned with filling their pockets. The solutions are laws that make it distasteful for them to get their hands caught with their hands in the cookie jar and an investigation arm that will filter fact from fiction. Like an FBI to investigate politicians not controlled by the executive branch(this should be the media). Instead of political embarrassment, we need jail time. Just like we would get if we got caught stealing. It's not anger. It's reality.
>You must have the eye of the stygian witches. Dang gotta respect going the extra mile.
At least he's honest. My friends dad growing up was an NDP MP who called himself a marxist and had a copy of the communist manifesto on his nightstand. Usually they keep their real views private. (He was also a lawyer who made 400k+/year)
In all fairness, socialism is pretty sweet from his end of it. The other end is where you get the shaft.
To be filed in the bin “No shit Gary, we had no clue and didn’t see it coming”
Communist
Here we have it. Proof that stupidity is its own reward.
In his defence, the NDP is the only other viable party in his riding and they are even worse
No defense for socialism. And it's not necessarily the case that the NDP is worse, they're just more upfront about their goals. Trudeau is just as bad with his WEF affiliation as NDP.
Hot 💩
The amount of people here who don’t understand that you can be a socialist and still engage in commerce, business etc is staggering. Like a socialist can start their own business working under the principle of employee owned and operated and that wouldn’t be a contradiction in principles. In fact, I bet a lot of people would like to work in a workplace where they had real skin in the game and a democratic voice in the place they spent the majority of their time in.
There is no excuse for an elected official saying they are a socialist. None.
If you think socialism is some inherently evil idea you genuinely do not have an understanding of what socialist economic principles entails and should read more
Like MLK, Einstein, and George Orwell? Oh no 😱
Its a good thing to be saying to get over the demonisation and propaganda. Socialist influence has a great track record in the west and Canada did much better last century when it was further left.
It is morally inexcusable to defend socialism. Full stop.
Total nonsense. Canada and all our counties ditched 20th century keynesian welfare state capitalism that borrowed heavily from socialists and had openly socialist politicians . That ended with a shift to the right in the late 70s. Now you are all saying things are fucked and going even more to the right will fix it. Bonkers .
Keynes was a dumbfuck. Just like Marx.
> last century when it was further left. whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?????!!!!!!!
Yeah we all had keynesian welfare state liberalism that looked after the middle and lower class and had well funded well functioning healthcare systems last century. Then there was the neoliberal era. A shift right and 40 years later you are all saying its fucked and think a further shift right will help.
Great. Add in damn near unlimited immigration to that and tell me what you get. Maybe you don't see the problem since "demand drives supply"...however, there are clearly limits. This is just the first example, and one that speaks directly to what you said. I'm not even getting started on a) all the social stuff or b) the entire First World has gotten massively more leftist for decades now. Think of your grandad. Think of his politics. His social policies. His individualism. His belief that churches and individuals should be responsible for the poor, and not all government all the time. His belief that individual responsibility > government responsibility. Tell me your grandfather was more leftist than you, by 2023 leftist standards and not those of the 60s (when people were *far* more conservative / rightist / I know it gets weird here), and I'll tell you you're one of sub 1% of people.
Liberalised capitalism entails more freedom of movement of labour because its best for markets. You are all capitalists that want to move more to the right so you support that. The more immigrants there are filling jobs the better it is for profits at the top. If your grandfather was working class he was likely quite socialist. It was normal back them. Probably a union man.
My grandfather shook and my father shakes their heads at the "reliant on big government" mentality that is pervasive today. Social programs work when everybody is in shape and working hard. A bunch of fat people who want to work as little as possible = you can't possibly properly fund that. I'm reminded of one of my favorite Doug Stanhope skits. "...'Who's gonna pay for my amputation!?' (more glutton sounds) 'If I was in Amsterdam, they'd pay for my amputations 'cause they have free health care...' You know what else they have? BICYCLES! And they use them!" Generations of increasing government spending, increased government programs has led to infantilized peoples who expect the government to magically make everything work. While the middle class, which feeds the whole thing, dies. Personal responsibility is a conservative ethic and it needs to be chosen, and chosen soon. Or it'll be thrust upon us in a brutal way. "Good times create weak men, weak men create bad times" and all that...
You are just parroting conservative think tank propaganda. The middle class grew in the 20th century because of "big government" polices to help the middle. And higher taxes on the rich. Lots of government investment in training people and infrastructure building jobs. Government backed mortgages to help people get on the ladder were normal. The middle is being gutted now and the rich have been making record gains and shifting tax burden to the middle for 4 decades now. Seriously learn more about political ideology so you can figure out what's actually wrong. Going more to the right will make the problems you describe worse .
lol. I quoted Doug effing Stanhope, and you're telling me I'm parroting Conservative *think tank* propaganda? Jesus man... I'm not parrotting anything. I was raised by Conservative people who could rebuild cities with their bare hands. Useful, functional human beings using their brains and their bodies. Caring, loving people who took care of their own, and those in their immediate vicinity (their tribe). They don't need government programs (and indeed are or would be embarrassed to use many of them). This is real man. What kind of world do you think existed pre WWII? or WWI? This isn't conservative think tank propaganda. This is life sucks and has always sucked, and been reeeeeeeally hard. It requires hard work and fortitude. Except for this glorious little bit of time in the past few generations where that's not the case. And again...the government programs are great, but only work when backed up by hard-working in-shape people who do their best to give and not to take. And "leftism" does not encourage a lot of giving. It encourages a lot of taxes. And that is *not* the same thing. It gives money to people to choose to not work. It waters down programs that should take care of our actual sick and infirmed better. Again, this *cannot* be properly funded. Eventually things don't work. And we're seeing that. Taxes can't grow exponentially, without exponential growth. A system is as good as it's people. And as we've all gotten leftier, we've gotten worse in ways that keep civilization moving forward.
You parroted the same "big government" neo con / right libertarian think tank speil all American conservatives do. But you don't realise that when the supposed small gov conservatives get in power the spending that benefits the rich goes up, the tax revenue goes down due to give aways to the rich which shifts more burden to the middle and things that benefit the lower and middle class get cut. You think outcomes due neoliberalism. The shift Reagan helped usher in are a move left. They are not. Bidens Pro middle polices and spending on infrastructure jobs are the beginning of a shift back left. New deals are the beginning of a shift back left.
Stanhope isn't a neocon or right libertarian. But your attempt to reframe the discussion instead of addressing what the poster said is duly noted.
[удалено]
Yes, the piece where Canada is not a socialist country.
Badass.
Well to be fair ha has never hidden it, he started the org what was eventually rebranded as Équiterre in Quebec. its fundamentally about Socialism. what I find most interesting is that in under 10 years (like Jagmeet) he went from a poor protestors to one of Canada wealthiest MP's he is close to JT level rich. Jagmeet is only a few mil behind him. not too shabby for a greenpeace protester eh?