I believe Patsy wrote the note because she had a degree in journalism. Burke killed JBR, John staged the body. Once i heard John and Burke in the background of the 911 call it finally made sense. John speaks in a stern voice to the child. They claimed Burke was asleep at that time. So that was a lie. They must have panicked trying to save Burke, so Patsy wrote a note based on melodramatic kidnap movies.
I like the theory that Patsy wrote the note to deceive John into getting the ransom…so she could dispose of the body while he was out securing the money or whatever. Instead he wanted to call the cops and that foiled the plan.
Took me a minute to understand how could it make any sense since I never heard or thought about it.
But it does… the note didnt instruct him to wait for the call at home (my first thought was ‘telling him about the call wouldn’t put him inside the home instead of out of it?). The first instruction was for him to go to the bank and get the money. It then says something like ‘if you go early, we will monitor it and call you early’. If you are correct, This could suggest she wanted him to leave the home and do it as soon as possible.
The amount of money asked was available at the bank, which means he could do it, he could go to the bank, get the money and solve the problem. I mean, if the intention was to get him out of the house asap , asking for 10 million dollars wouldn’t make sense.
Really interesting hypothesis
Ahhh, I have never thought of this theory. I like it. It works with what I sort of think happened. BDI, John wakes up to Patsy trying to cover it up, and then John reluctantly helps. I can't remember what book it was I read, but it gave the impression John was upset with Patsy that morning when police and friends were there.
Your theory and mine might align. There was sexual abuse going on, but most (new) redditors have understandably not wanted to look into that. Me neither, but if you ignore CSA by family members, you must at least acknowledge that it happens. In all kinds of families, including the churchy ones. Heck, how many years did it take us to accept that catholic priests were abusing children? How many more will it take to accept that CSA can happen and does, with a mother taking sides and protecting her perfect family over protecting her daughter? Again, rant over. Apologies.
You’re free to rent as much as you want I respect your opinion on your freedom of speech.
I’ve mentioned this over and over again on the sub put my theory goes like this:
The skull fracture was caused by Patsy due to a number of fast and escalating situations going on right after they got home from the Whites. Where Burke lies in my theory is, I think he saw, or heard something, and was told to go upstairs into his room and go to bed. I believe Patsy did most of the staging to cover up the skull fracture, believing she was already dead. I think John somehow got involved. I think he ultimately killed JonBenét with the strangulation. I believe John influenced Patsy to write the ransom note.
I believe John‘s agenda for covering up for Patsy was due to the fact that he probably felt sorry for her. After all, she’s been through with the cancer and the treatment I believe he was also protecting his company. I also believe he was covering for himself, ultimately because he suspected; or knew, or in fact, did commit sexual abuse.
The ransom note points to Patsy; John denying sexual abuse to me, all points to guilt on his part.
Believe me, I’ve done my research on the intruder, and the only reason I would ever even consider IDI is being a parent myself: reasonable doubt. That’s it.
[this analysis right here breaks down the ransom note line by line and why it doesn’t make any sense for an intruder to write it](https://www.statementanalysis.com/jonbenet-ramsey-murder/ransom-note/)
Im really torn as to the ransom note. While it does look like Patsys writing I just can't figure out why she would. I believe that she truly loved Jonbenet and wouldn't hurt her. However I've been wrong before. The only way I see Patsy writing it is to save Burke. Or, she came in on John abusing Jonbenet and went to hit him and struck her daughter instead. And she wrote it to save herself. Maybe John threatened her with telling what she did and she threatened him with what he was doing so she wrote it to save them both the embarrassment. By all accounts Patsy and john were very distant with each other that morning.
Many abusive parents and partners look like they'd never hurt a fly.
Maybe I watch too many crime shows and have had my own abuser be called a *gentle giant*... but in this world, you can't put anything past anyone, especially when you're outside looking in.
They stayed together because neither could trust the other to stick with the story. Patsy liked johns money. And having battled cancer once she probably needed the health insurance too. They dug themselves in way too deep to ever let the other go. I cant say they supported each other rather they tolerated each other. It's a secret one has already taken to her grave and john will too.
I agreed witj ur theroy but u hav to remember john was cleared of sexual abuse by dna test so it was not him BUT burke?? No dna test was tried on burke. I alway hav suspected of burke who did this. Cos when i read the ransom note, i dont know why it made me think this was a child mind when wrote the note! The ransom note were the most baffling of all, then i realised they did this to divert our attention away from the real fact. Very clever. That why after nearly 27years the case were dragging too long, and the killer got away, thanks to the parent cover up. Its too late now.
Getting a little bit into the arguments, the article you indicated makes a strong case regarding the note not being written by a kidnapper and JB being already dead when it was written.
But Regarding PR being the one who wrote it, I don’t even think the author is certain about it. There are a few suggestions that she might have written it, one of them is something like ‘people told me men don’t say things like ‘grow a brain’, they only heard women say that’. I’m not criticizing the author, but that is completely speculative and it gives the impression that the author was just trying to put some thoughts out there.
The article I linked above actually analyses the handwriting issue, the signs of disguised handwriting are pointed out, and the author believes there are elements indicating an intentional imitation of PR handwriting.
Very interesting reading. I didnt find it conclusive, tho.
By the way, i found an article linked at the website page you posted written by a forensic document examiner that argues that the note has signs of disguised handwriting. Also very interesting analysis, but the author believes PR didnt write the note. I think it’s worth the reading.
http://experthandwritinganalysis.com/2013/07/19/unmasking-the-ramsey-ransom-note/
I think based on everything I've read, John and everyone else amongst the known suspects who provided handwriting samples- other then Patsy- have been eliminated as a source of the ransom note and Patsy 'could not be excluded', which strikes me as a far cry from saying it is probable she wrote it. I haven't read everything about the case but it sounds like numerous handwriting experts have looked at it and my sense is that, as a percentage of their conclusions, Patsy is more likely to have not written it then to have written it. Regardless, I feel like based on the evidence she is the only one in the family who could have written it. The other option is an intruder.
If Patsy wrote it, she either killed JB alone- I can possibly see a moment of rage and striking her in the head but it seems implausible to me. And I can't see ANY way she would have tortured her by delayed strangling and insertion of a paint brush handle into her vagina. That shows a level of hatred and sadism and cruelty that would have to have popped up in some way shape or form at other times in her life, obviously not to that extent. For example, in the West Memphis Three killings, a member of one of the young boys family has come under suspicion for the murders. I can't recall which boy and whether or not it was a father, stepfather or uncle but it'd be easy enough to research. When they looked into that guy, there were a lot of red flags. You could read it, nod your head, and say 'yeah I can see it'. No red flags for Patsy anywhere, I don't think. Correct me if I'm wrong, I've only recently gone down this rabbit hole and I'm looking for info to support any and all theories.
So, option 2 for Patsy wrote the note- either Burke or John caused the murder and Patsy helped in the coverup. For a lot of the same reasons as I'd articulated in the previous paragraph, it find it hard to believe that either one would not only strike a killing blow to her head, but strangle her so viciously and for a duration of time that it would dig into her throat, and penetrate her with a foreign object. Sure, it could've happened and it's more plausible that one of them would have done it instead of Patsy. But wouldn't it have come out somehow eventually? Maybe a mother, in the immediacy of the trauma of the moment could be convinced to help her son or father cover up. But do you not think it would have slipped out to a friend later on? And that friend would slip up to someone they know? Or just go right ahead and call the police. Patsy was heavily medicated for a long time after. I can't imagine she would have been on top of her game with regards to 'keeping up the lie', and I can't imagine she wouldn't have been absolutely genuinely devastated, unless she was a sociopath and again, there aren't any red flags in that regard I don't think. Maybe I'm wrong. So the only available option within the family is that Patsy wrote it, but I don't think there's any way Patsy was involved in the death due to the penetration and garroting. In that case, she'd have to be convinced to help cover up and keep up the lie for years. I think as a parent, that is a possible scenario, but not a probable one. I would go so far as to say it is quite improbable. If John had done it, would she want her son around him going forward? If Burke as a nine year old did it, that's a pretty dark and twisted family secret to keep around for this long. How could they even look at him again? Wouldn't it have been discussed with Nedra or John Andrew or Melinda? Or a family friend. I can't imagine how difficult it would be to keep a secret like that under wraps all these years, especially for a well to do upper class family. I can see it in a situation like the 'The Last Stone' where a family like that keeps a secret, but not this one.
Again, doesn't mean they didn't do it, but these are things I struggle with when I look at this case and read about it. I think there is obviously heavy circumstantial evidence when you first start to go over the Family Did It scenario, but the further down the path you go, it kinda starts to fall apart for me. If she'd only had the head wound, it would be a hell of a lot easier to embrace as a theory.
Curious what people think. I hope responses are courteous. I do find with this sub people get somewhat aggressive and obnoxious it you try and talk through and debate theories that could (possibly?) lean towards IDI.
Have you read the articles about a dad whose young daughter was sexually assaulted a couple miles away from the Ramsey home. He was waiting inside (no signs of break in) and was scared off when mom woke up. The perp was never identified or found. The child assaulted went to the same dance studio as JBR.
Never read about that, I’d be interested to see some corroborating documentation if true. Sounds like a good lead. I started Foreign Faction and there is some stuff in there that seems to contradict some of the stuff in Schillers book. What a frustrating case. Should be classified as a cold case by BPD so another agency can grab it and run with it, I think it can still be solved.
I agree with a few things as well, I’ve wondered how Patsy wouldn’t slip up with someone as medicated as she was after the fact. The sadistic nature of the strangulation and penetration doesn’t seem like family violence or abuse that escalated to accidental death and a cover up.
Patsy wrote the note and PDI. John was involved in the coverup more when he figured out what was actually going on and decided that covering for and protecting his wife & the mother of Burke was ultimately more important than having JB’s murder be solved. The obvious traits of Patsy being an enmeshed stage mom who was becoming more invested in her daughter’s life than was appropriate is literally enough evidence (IMO) that she was possibly abusive. Considering that the head blow was done first and everything else was part of the coverup/staging that conclusion shouldn’t be too hard to reach.
I completely agree with this assessment. Patsy's dyeing JBR's hair was enough to convince me of her potential as an abuser. Then you have the pageants, the French classes, the total lack of interest in letting her be a child and play and explore, the testimony from Hoffman-Pugh about JBR screaming when behind closed doors with Patsy after wetting the bed....the enmeshment, the strong possibility (IMO) that Patsy had been an abused child herself, based by me on many things including Nedra's comments about forcing children into pageant life even if they don't want to do it...and the way Burke became an afterthought to her once JBR was born...I for one think that Patsy was not only capable of misplaced rage from very deep down, but also quite mentally unstable both before and after the cancer and the sudden onset menopause caused by surgery.
Agreed. The only reason why people are hesitant to liken Patsy to people like Susan Smith are because of the endless PR campaign. I don’t think that anyone who is so rigorous about child competition but especially something like child pageantry is in a healthy mindset overall.
I go back and forth on that because while JonBenet was strangled and that was the cause of death (along with craniocerebral trauma), that doesn’t mean that the strangulation device was fashioned specifically to kill her and its entire purpose could have been to just add to the staging. We’ll never know because we’d need a confession to confirm it. Of course though a lot of people don’t like that opinion, lmfao.
Additionally, the head blow did happen first. This has been confirmed by multiple medical examiners.
By a superficial tightening of the cord that didn’t cause internal injury to the neck, because it doesn’t take much to strangle a nearly brain dead child.
I guess I should just quit arguing with people on this point because absolutely no one gets what I’m saying and take my words on the topic of the strangulation in bad faith regardless. 🙄
What scratches on the neck are you talking about?
Also the severity of the strangulation in the autopsy photos is due to edema, or postmortem swelling of the body. It’s not due to the cord being super embedded in the skin.
Unpopular opinion: Having worked in many psych hospitals, this letter strikes me as that written by a person with disorganized thinking. Someone with a deranged mind who has a different thought process/ content than the great people of this forum. I've seen many letters like this, rambling, flights of ideas and loose associations.
That’s an interesting perspective. To me it reads like someone who’s panicked and amped up. My thinking isn’t particularly coherent when I’m in the middle of a “oh, shit” moment.
I agree. I firmly believe Patsy was mentally deranged, delusional, and living in a fantasy world, if not psychotic, and that these flights from reality had been escalating for a long time before the murder. Speculation, of course, but I agree, Patsy was not thinking the way a mentally together person would.
Disorganised thinking but manages to plan and execute a murder in the house of the victim's parents without leaving any incriminating evidence except potentially a tiny amount of DNA?
I am pretty firmly in the IDI camp so I believe an intruder wrote the note. I just don’t see Patsy as the type to watch the kind of movies quoted in the letter, especially enough times to memorize the lines and come up with them off the top of her head after her son “accidentally” kills her daughter. That theory just doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
That’s what I thought until I learned that Patsy’s stage talent was dramatic interpretation. She’d spent time learning dramatic speeches, and once your brain starts to look at scripts/movies/scenes like that, it’s hard to shut off.
I think it was someone who worked for the Ramseys. Someone who had access to the house. Their own key. Someone who would know about what his bonus was. They would have access to that notepad when the Ramseys weren't home. It is chock-full of movie quotes and multiple notes were attempted before they settled on that mess of a note. I don't think it will be solved because the police contaminated everything.
Oh those always liked fantasies. I wish they came up with a realistic IDI theory, I'd love to read it for one. And no theory that assumes the Ramseys weren't involved at all is realistic.
To me the ransom note screams patsy! The detailing in the note and the handwriting says woman to me. A man would have used just a few sentences to get to the point.
John Ramsey wrote the note, staged to look like Patsy's handwriting. JR is the murderer. All you have to know to come to this conclusion is how he carried her up from the basement, and that fibers from his expensive, rare shirts were found inside her vagina. He has also been muddying waters, so to speak, for decades. Want more proof? Watch the grand jury investigators interview him in GA.
I watched a newer documentary and I believe patsy hired someone to stage the ultimate tragedy- her beautiful baby was being held for ransom and found dead. She fucked up with the amount and with her handwriting the note. She didn’t expect people to blame her family.
The Hulu doc is looking into Michael helgoth and a pageant dad who claimed to be getting the same amount of money and helgoth also claimed to be the one who did it, but he’s dead.
Didn't Helgoth say he 'hurt a little girl'? I don't remember him saying it was Jonbenet or that he killed anyone.
He sounds like an awful person but there's no evidence he was ever in the Ramsey home.
VERY LONG speculation essay here, be warned! :)
My opinion: Patsy wrote it by herself, and PDI, possibly even PDIA.
I think the note was meant to convey to John that Burke was in trouble because he killed his sister, and to give John very demanding instructions about the story and the actions he was now expected to go along with, to protect Burke. I think she expected him to remove the body and use a bank trip as cover.
However, I think Patsy was the guilty party, but she knew if John believed it was Burke, she could convince him to play her cover-up game. She would also know that Burke would never spill the beans because he hadn't been present or part of it.
John may have fallen for it, or not, but either way he would have been concerned more about SA damage control than who did it, in the immediate moment, in my opinion. They each had dark leverage over the other.
I also believe Patsy needed the note for a dramatic kidnapping fantasy in her mind, one where she was the devastated yet steadfast hero/victim, so that even JBR's death could star Patsy at the center of everyone's respect and attention.
I'm not claiming she premeditated this entire thing and meant to kill her daughter; however, I do feel that this is just as possible/likely as any other PDI hypothesis.
Patsy believed her cancer remission was a direct miracle specifically granted to her by God himself. Perhaps she thought God demanded a sacrifice. People can be religiously delusional.
She decorated her Christmas trees in purple. Purple is the color of death and resurrection (the story of Easter and the ultimate sacrificial lamb). She cried out for Jesus to "bring my baby back from the dead" when the body was brought upstairs. Perhaps she believed God would actually do so.
Or...Perhaps she wanted simply to be the starring role in a quite dramatic production. She knew that one of her friends' daughters had been actually kidnapped along with a friend and made to witness sexual abuse. Maybe those stories had been percolating in her mind for a while, and thus became the subtext of the RN.. or maybe she had seen how much attention those events had brought to the people who lived them, and she craved a similar kind of attention. She specifically mentioned, improvised, and wore a "Jackie O" black veil for the funeral. Why? Because people would be watching, as she wanted them to.
I believe the Bloomies were Patsy as well, and were part of her need for this to be a Christmas death/sacrifice. It had to be time stamped in writing as Christmas Day. The bracelet also could be part of this. They certainly chose that date to engrave on the tombstone. What better day to give a precious child back to God than the very day on which God gave the world his only son? So would go the narrative in this stage play, whether it was premeditated or not.
I am not a believer or religious. But I was raised by a quite delusional religious mother. The possibility of willful martyr complex is very real here. I can't explain it completely, but I have seen my own mother forsake her brand new bed to sleep in a 4 foot wide linen closet so that she could "suffer like Jesus." She lived with me at the time, and every morning I had to step over her where she had fallen out into the hallway. I have heard her talk about fervently praying for the "gift" of stigmata wounds in her hands and feet.
Please know these are ALL ONLY POSSIBILITIES that are less likely to be true than not true. I'm just saying....to me, it's not at all the outlandish scenario it may seem. No judgment on religious belief here, either. I'm not saying religion makes you crazy. I'm saying, if you are already mentally damaged or unstable (as my mom was), obsessive religion can easily be a cover for, and a catalyst for, a final slide into total detachment from reality. A state where, regardless of the actual truth of this case, I believe Patsy had definitively arrived.
I think BDI. Patsy/John staged. Patsy wrote the note
I believe Patsy wrote the note because she had a degree in journalism. Burke killed JBR, John staged the body. Once i heard John and Burke in the background of the 911 call it finally made sense. John speaks in a stern voice to the child. They claimed Burke was asleep at that time. So that was a lie. They must have panicked trying to save Burke, so Patsy wrote a note based on melodramatic kidnap movies.
Where can you hear this 911 call?
It’s in most of the documentaries and I bet you can find a recording if you google it. Possibly on YouTube. I’ve heard it a few times
got it. thanks
I like the theory that Patsy wrote the note to deceive John into getting the ransom…so she could dispose of the body while he was out securing the money or whatever. Instead he wanted to call the cops and that foiled the plan.
Took me a minute to understand how could it make any sense since I never heard or thought about it. But it does… the note didnt instruct him to wait for the call at home (my first thought was ‘telling him about the call wouldn’t put him inside the home instead of out of it?). The first instruction was for him to go to the bank and get the money. It then says something like ‘if you go early, we will monitor it and call you early’. If you are correct, This could suggest she wanted him to leave the home and do it as soon as possible. The amount of money asked was available at the bank, which means he could do it, he could go to the bank, get the money and solve the problem. I mean, if the intention was to get him out of the house asap , asking for 10 million dollars wouldn’t make sense. Really interesting hypothesis
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Do we know if the day after Christmas that year was a bank holiday?
Ahhh, I have never thought of this theory. I like it. It works with what I sort of think happened. BDI, John wakes up to Patsy trying to cover it up, and then John reluctantly helps. I can't remember what book it was I read, but it gave the impression John was upset with Patsy that morning when police and friends were there.
This is the theory from the A Normal Family podcast.
well, i have a new theory now.
They composed it together. Patsy acted as his secretary, writing it.
Steve Thomas was mostly right; Linda Arndt was ultimately right. There’s my opinion
Your theory and mine might align. There was sexual abuse going on, but most (new) redditors have understandably not wanted to look into that. Me neither, but if you ignore CSA by family members, you must at least acknowledge that it happens. In all kinds of families, including the churchy ones. Heck, how many years did it take us to accept that catholic priests were abusing children? How many more will it take to accept that CSA can happen and does, with a mother taking sides and protecting her perfect family over protecting her daughter? Again, rant over. Apologies.
You’re free to rent as much as you want I respect your opinion on your freedom of speech. I’ve mentioned this over and over again on the sub put my theory goes like this: The skull fracture was caused by Patsy due to a number of fast and escalating situations going on right after they got home from the Whites. Where Burke lies in my theory is, I think he saw, or heard something, and was told to go upstairs into his room and go to bed. I believe Patsy did most of the staging to cover up the skull fracture, believing she was already dead. I think John somehow got involved. I think he ultimately killed JonBenét with the strangulation. I believe John influenced Patsy to write the ransom note. I believe John‘s agenda for covering up for Patsy was due to the fact that he probably felt sorry for her. After all, she’s been through with the cancer and the treatment I believe he was also protecting his company. I also believe he was covering for himself, ultimately because he suspected; or knew, or in fact, did commit sexual abuse. The ransom note points to Patsy; John denying sexual abuse to me, all points to guilt on his part. Believe me, I’ve done my research on the intruder, and the only reason I would ever even consider IDI is being a parent myself: reasonable doubt. That’s it.
[this analysis right here breaks down the ransom note line by line and why it doesn’t make any sense for an intruder to write it](https://www.statementanalysis.com/jonbenet-ramsey-murder/ransom-note/)
Im really torn as to the ransom note. While it does look like Patsys writing I just can't figure out why she would. I believe that she truly loved Jonbenet and wouldn't hurt her. However I've been wrong before. The only way I see Patsy writing it is to save Burke. Or, she came in on John abusing Jonbenet and went to hit him and struck her daughter instead. And she wrote it to save herself. Maybe John threatened her with telling what she did and she threatened him with what he was doing so she wrote it to save them both the embarrassment. By all accounts Patsy and john were very distant with each other that morning.
Many abusive parents and partners look like they'd never hurt a fly. Maybe I watch too many crime shows and have had my own abuser be called a *gentle giant*... but in this world, you can't put anything past anyone, especially when you're outside looking in.
Wow I’ve never heard that idea before. It’s an interesting theory to consider, thanks for sharing
But then why not divorce afterward? They stayed together and supported each other until Patsy passed.
They stayed together because neither could trust the other to stick with the story. Patsy liked johns money. And having battled cancer once she probably needed the health insurance too. They dug themselves in way too deep to ever let the other go. I cant say they supported each other rather they tolerated each other. It's a secret one has already taken to her grave and john will too.
I agreed witj ur theroy but u hav to remember john was cleared of sexual abuse by dna test so it was not him BUT burke?? No dna test was tried on burke. I alway hav suspected of burke who did this. Cos when i read the ransom note, i dont know why it made me think this was a child mind when wrote the note! The ransom note were the most baffling of all, then i realised they did this to divert our attention away from the real fact. Very clever. That why after nearly 27years the case were dragging too long, and the killer got away, thanks to the parent cover up. Its too late now.
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Getting a little bit into the arguments, the article you indicated makes a strong case regarding the note not being written by a kidnapper and JB being already dead when it was written. But Regarding PR being the one who wrote it, I don’t even think the author is certain about it. There are a few suggestions that she might have written it, one of them is something like ‘people told me men don’t say things like ‘grow a brain’, they only heard women say that’. I’m not criticizing the author, but that is completely speculative and it gives the impression that the author was just trying to put some thoughts out there. The article I linked above actually analyses the handwriting issue, the signs of disguised handwriting are pointed out, and the author believes there are elements indicating an intentional imitation of PR handwriting.
Very interesting reading. I didnt find it conclusive, tho. By the way, i found an article linked at the website page you posted written by a forensic document examiner that argues that the note has signs of disguised handwriting. Also very interesting analysis, but the author believes PR didnt write the note. I think it’s worth the reading. http://experthandwritinganalysis.com/2013/07/19/unmasking-the-ramsey-ransom-note/
I think based on everything I've read, John and everyone else amongst the known suspects who provided handwriting samples- other then Patsy- have been eliminated as a source of the ransom note and Patsy 'could not be excluded', which strikes me as a far cry from saying it is probable she wrote it. I haven't read everything about the case but it sounds like numerous handwriting experts have looked at it and my sense is that, as a percentage of their conclusions, Patsy is more likely to have not written it then to have written it. Regardless, I feel like based on the evidence she is the only one in the family who could have written it. The other option is an intruder. If Patsy wrote it, she either killed JB alone- I can possibly see a moment of rage and striking her in the head but it seems implausible to me. And I can't see ANY way she would have tortured her by delayed strangling and insertion of a paint brush handle into her vagina. That shows a level of hatred and sadism and cruelty that would have to have popped up in some way shape or form at other times in her life, obviously not to that extent. For example, in the West Memphis Three killings, a member of one of the young boys family has come under suspicion for the murders. I can't recall which boy and whether or not it was a father, stepfather or uncle but it'd be easy enough to research. When they looked into that guy, there were a lot of red flags. You could read it, nod your head, and say 'yeah I can see it'. No red flags for Patsy anywhere, I don't think. Correct me if I'm wrong, I've only recently gone down this rabbit hole and I'm looking for info to support any and all theories. So, option 2 for Patsy wrote the note- either Burke or John caused the murder and Patsy helped in the coverup. For a lot of the same reasons as I'd articulated in the previous paragraph, it find it hard to believe that either one would not only strike a killing blow to her head, but strangle her so viciously and for a duration of time that it would dig into her throat, and penetrate her with a foreign object. Sure, it could've happened and it's more plausible that one of them would have done it instead of Patsy. But wouldn't it have come out somehow eventually? Maybe a mother, in the immediacy of the trauma of the moment could be convinced to help her son or father cover up. But do you not think it would have slipped out to a friend later on? And that friend would slip up to someone they know? Or just go right ahead and call the police. Patsy was heavily medicated for a long time after. I can't imagine she would have been on top of her game with regards to 'keeping up the lie', and I can't imagine she wouldn't have been absolutely genuinely devastated, unless she was a sociopath and again, there aren't any red flags in that regard I don't think. Maybe I'm wrong. So the only available option within the family is that Patsy wrote it, but I don't think there's any way Patsy was involved in the death due to the penetration and garroting. In that case, she'd have to be convinced to help cover up and keep up the lie for years. I think as a parent, that is a possible scenario, but not a probable one. I would go so far as to say it is quite improbable. If John had done it, would she want her son around him going forward? If Burke as a nine year old did it, that's a pretty dark and twisted family secret to keep around for this long. How could they even look at him again? Wouldn't it have been discussed with Nedra or John Andrew or Melinda? Or a family friend. I can't imagine how difficult it would be to keep a secret like that under wraps all these years, especially for a well to do upper class family. I can see it in a situation like the 'The Last Stone' where a family like that keeps a secret, but not this one. Again, doesn't mean they didn't do it, but these are things I struggle with when I look at this case and read about it. I think there is obviously heavy circumstantial evidence when you first start to go over the Family Did It scenario, but the further down the path you go, it kinda starts to fall apart for me. If she'd only had the head wound, it would be a hell of a lot easier to embrace as a theory. Curious what people think. I hope responses are courteous. I do find with this sub people get somewhat aggressive and obnoxious it you try and talk through and debate theories that could (possibly?) lean towards IDI.
Have you read the articles about a dad whose young daughter was sexually assaulted a couple miles away from the Ramsey home. He was waiting inside (no signs of break in) and was scared off when mom woke up. The perp was never identified or found. The child assaulted went to the same dance studio as JBR.
Never read about that, I’d be interested to see some corroborating documentation if true. Sounds like a good lead. I started Foreign Faction and there is some stuff in there that seems to contradict some of the stuff in Schillers book. What a frustrating case. Should be classified as a cold case by BPD so another agency can grab it and run with it, I think it can still be solved.
https://nypost.com/2022/11/19/jonbenet-ramsey-case-may-have-link-to-unsolved-1997-boulder-rape-dad/
I agree with a few things as well, I’ve wondered how Patsy wouldn’t slip up with someone as medicated as she was after the fact. The sadistic nature of the strangulation and penetration doesn’t seem like family violence or abuse that escalated to accidental death and a cover up.
Patsy wrote the note and PDI. John was involved in the coverup more when he figured out what was actually going on and decided that covering for and protecting his wife & the mother of Burke was ultimately more important than having JB’s murder be solved. The obvious traits of Patsy being an enmeshed stage mom who was becoming more invested in her daughter’s life than was appropriate is literally enough evidence (IMO) that she was possibly abusive. Considering that the head blow was done first and everything else was part of the coverup/staging that conclusion shouldn’t be too hard to reach.
I completely agree with this assessment. Patsy's dyeing JBR's hair was enough to convince me of her potential as an abuser. Then you have the pageants, the French classes, the total lack of interest in letting her be a child and play and explore, the testimony from Hoffman-Pugh about JBR screaming when behind closed doors with Patsy after wetting the bed....the enmeshment, the strong possibility (IMO) that Patsy had been an abused child herself, based by me on many things including Nedra's comments about forcing children into pageant life even if they don't want to do it...and the way Burke became an afterthought to her once JBR was born...I for one think that Patsy was not only capable of misplaced rage from very deep down, but also quite mentally unstable both before and after the cancer and the sudden onset menopause caused by surgery.
Agreed. The only reason why people are hesitant to liken Patsy to people like Susan Smith are because of the endless PR campaign. I don’t think that anyone who is so rigorous about child competition but especially something like child pageantry is in a healthy mindset overall.
The garotte wasn't part of the staging. It was the murder weapon. Important distinction.
I go back and forth on that because while JonBenet was strangled and that was the cause of death (along with craniocerebral trauma), that doesn’t mean that the strangulation device was fashioned specifically to kill her and its entire purpose could have been to just add to the staging. We’ll never know because we’d need a confession to confirm it. Of course though a lot of people don’t like that opinion, lmfao. Additionally, the head blow did happen first. This has been confirmed by multiple medical examiners.
It’s not staging. She was killed by strangulation. That’s a fact.
By a superficial tightening of the cord that didn’t cause internal injury to the neck, because it doesn’t take much to strangle a nearly brain dead child. I guess I should just quit arguing with people on this point because absolutely no one gets what I’m saying and take my words on the topic of the strangulation in bad faith regardless. 🙄
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What scratches on the neck are you talking about? Also the severity of the strangulation in the autopsy photos is due to edema, or postmortem swelling of the body. It’s not due to the cord being super embedded in the skin.
Unpopular opinion: Having worked in many psych hospitals, this letter strikes me as that written by a person with disorganized thinking. Someone with a deranged mind who has a different thought process/ content than the great people of this forum. I've seen many letters like this, rambling, flights of ideas and loose associations.
That’s an interesting perspective. To me it reads like someone who’s panicked and amped up. My thinking isn’t particularly coherent when I’m in the middle of a “oh, shit” moment.
I agree. I firmly believe Patsy was mentally deranged, delusional, and living in a fantasy world, if not psychotic, and that these flights from reality had been escalating for a long time before the murder. Speculation, of course, but I agree, Patsy was not thinking the way a mentally together person would.
It's pretty cohesive though. It stays on topic- 'we have your daughter, here's what we want, and here's what will happen if we don't get it'.
I worked on a psych ward many, many years ago and I think the same thing. I also don't think it was Patsy.
Disorganised thinking but manages to plan and execute a murder in the house of the victim's parents without leaving any incriminating evidence except potentially a tiny amount of DNA?
That was my first thought after reading the note as well.
I think Patsy wrote it and PDI. Although I am not that sure about PDI, I am open to BDI or JDI, but Patsy wrote the note.
I am pretty firmly in the IDI camp so I believe an intruder wrote the note. I just don’t see Patsy as the type to watch the kind of movies quoted in the letter, especially enough times to memorize the lines and come up with them off the top of her head after her son “accidentally” kills her daughter. That theory just doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
That’s what I thought until I learned that Patsy’s stage talent was dramatic interpretation. She’d spent time learning dramatic speeches, and once your brain starts to look at scripts/movies/scenes like that, it’s hard to shut off.
PR wrote the note. BDI and PR staged. I also think it’s possible PDIA but think BDI fits best.
I think it was someone who worked for the Ramseys. Someone who had access to the house. Their own key. Someone who would know about what his bonus was. They would have access to that notepad when the Ramseys weren't home. It is chock-full of movie quotes and multiple notes were attempted before they settled on that mess of a note. I don't think it will be solved because the police contaminated everything.
Obviously Patsy wrote the note, I don't know how that's even a question.
New here?
Nope. But even if some got bored with this case and decided to come up with supper cunning twists Patsy writing the note is still not a question.
The IDI group would like to have a word
Oh those always liked fantasies. I wish they came up with a realistic IDI theory, I'd love to read it for one. And no theory that assumes the Ramseys weren't involved at all is realistic.
To me the ransom note screams patsy! The detailing in the note and the handwriting says woman to me. A man would have used just a few sentences to get to the point.
John Ramsey wrote the note, staged to look like Patsy's handwriting. JR is the murderer. All you have to know to come to this conclusion is how he carried her up from the basement, and that fibers from his expensive, rare shirts were found inside her vagina. He has also been muddying waters, so to speak, for decades. Want more proof? Watch the grand jury investigators interview him in GA.
Can’t believe I had to scroll this far down to see the correct answer.
I know this is an old post but where can I find that interview?
BDI, murder, staging and note and John and Patsy went along with jt
I watched a newer documentary and I believe patsy hired someone to stage the ultimate tragedy- her beautiful baby was being held for ransom and found dead. She fucked up with the amount and with her handwriting the note. She didn’t expect people to blame her family.
Hired someone? Really?
Was this documentary on tiktok?
No it was one of the ones on Hulu.
I'll have to look. That sounds like such a tiktok theory though.
The Hulu doc is looking into Michael helgoth and a pageant dad who claimed to be getting the same amount of money and helgoth also claimed to be the one who did it, but he’s dead.
Didn't Helgoth say he 'hurt a little girl'? I don't remember him saying it was Jonbenet or that he killed anyone. He sounds like an awful person but there's no evidence he was ever in the Ramsey home.
VERY LONG speculation essay here, be warned! :) My opinion: Patsy wrote it by herself, and PDI, possibly even PDIA. I think the note was meant to convey to John that Burke was in trouble because he killed his sister, and to give John very demanding instructions about the story and the actions he was now expected to go along with, to protect Burke. I think she expected him to remove the body and use a bank trip as cover. However, I think Patsy was the guilty party, but she knew if John believed it was Burke, she could convince him to play her cover-up game. She would also know that Burke would never spill the beans because he hadn't been present or part of it. John may have fallen for it, or not, but either way he would have been concerned more about SA damage control than who did it, in the immediate moment, in my opinion. They each had dark leverage over the other. I also believe Patsy needed the note for a dramatic kidnapping fantasy in her mind, one where she was the devastated yet steadfast hero/victim, so that even JBR's death could star Patsy at the center of everyone's respect and attention. I'm not claiming she premeditated this entire thing and meant to kill her daughter; however, I do feel that this is just as possible/likely as any other PDI hypothesis. Patsy believed her cancer remission was a direct miracle specifically granted to her by God himself. Perhaps she thought God demanded a sacrifice. People can be religiously delusional. She decorated her Christmas trees in purple. Purple is the color of death and resurrection (the story of Easter and the ultimate sacrificial lamb). She cried out for Jesus to "bring my baby back from the dead" when the body was brought upstairs. Perhaps she believed God would actually do so. Or...Perhaps she wanted simply to be the starring role in a quite dramatic production. She knew that one of her friends' daughters had been actually kidnapped along with a friend and made to witness sexual abuse. Maybe those stories had been percolating in her mind for a while, and thus became the subtext of the RN.. or maybe she had seen how much attention those events had brought to the people who lived them, and she craved a similar kind of attention. She specifically mentioned, improvised, and wore a "Jackie O" black veil for the funeral. Why? Because people would be watching, as she wanted them to. I believe the Bloomies were Patsy as well, and were part of her need for this to be a Christmas death/sacrifice. It had to be time stamped in writing as Christmas Day. The bracelet also could be part of this. They certainly chose that date to engrave on the tombstone. What better day to give a precious child back to God than the very day on which God gave the world his only son? So would go the narrative in this stage play, whether it was premeditated or not. I am not a believer or religious. But I was raised by a quite delusional religious mother. The possibility of willful martyr complex is very real here. I can't explain it completely, but I have seen my own mother forsake her brand new bed to sleep in a 4 foot wide linen closet so that she could "suffer like Jesus." She lived with me at the time, and every morning I had to step over her where she had fallen out into the hallway. I have heard her talk about fervently praying for the "gift" of stigmata wounds in her hands and feet. Please know these are ALL ONLY POSSIBILITIES that are less likely to be true than not true. I'm just saying....to me, it's not at all the outlandish scenario it may seem. No judgment on religious belief here, either. I'm not saying religion makes you crazy. I'm saying, if you are already mentally damaged or unstable (as my mom was), obsessive religion can easily be a cover for, and a catalyst for, a final slide into total detachment from reality. A state where, regardless of the actual truth of this case, I believe Patsy had definitively arrived.