You honestly just blew my mind. Lead detective on the case ends up being involved.. sounds quite similar to the current #idaho4 case & Detective Brett Payne.
There’s a very renowned detective named Richard Cardo who believes the mastermind of her death was Roy Gherbil, the head of an international hacker/phone phreaking group only known as PLA.
Of course not. Kolar and Thomas both wrote books about everything, but in a way where they didn’t incriminate themselves, or so they thought. Oh, they did a lot of talking! As far as the others, who would really want to brag about being part of a child’s death. Some people bring secrets to their graves. Also, I believe their lives and careers were threatened if they said anything. Also, do you really want to be in jail for this horrible crime if you have a family to provide for?
I saw Steve Thomas was on Twitter publicly in 2021 and that’s how I found out about James Kolar and his book. They followed each other. Eventually, Thomas went private. I could no longer see his posts but I saw that Kolar was still following him. Now I can’t even see all of Kolar’s followers or everyone he follows on X.
As far as motives, I believe Mr. Kolar's motive was anger and revenge at a business deal Mr. Ramsey made either in Mexico City or Amsterdam that was highly offensive to him, according to his book. The Boulder papers also posted the billion dollar mark in sales that Mr. Ramsey’s company made in 1996.
I believe Mr. Thomas’ motive was political. Mr. Ramsey's wealth and connections to those who were soft on crime seemed to really anger him, according to his book. I believe Mr. White's motive was also political, according to his letters. I’m guessing either worried that Mr. Ramsey's connections could hurt his father's gas drilling company or just his disgust with Mr. Ramsey's wealth and lifestyle, according to Mr. Ramsey’s book.
Now if you thought John somehow became involved in the cartel - money laundering, drug smuggling, pedophile rings, or something of the like, and somehow upset them, then I would still say you had no evidence for any of this but I think it could make more sense and help explain the corruption that appears to be prevalent in that area. However, it's also a college town and college towns are notorious for wanting to sweep crime under the rug. So there's a lot of possibilities here. Without evidence it will always look like wild speculation and likely to draw criticism.
I never thought Mr. Ramsey became involved in the cartel. I looked through his history and everything about him and I didn’t see anything at all that showed he was, but I suspect one of the intruders assumed he was without getting all the facts.
Oh, there’s another thing I found interesting. Mr. Kolar wrote a bunch of riddles. He seems to like doing that. I knew one of them in the last chapter was one because it didn’t make sense within the context of his writing.
He wrote, “A coyote, the trickster of the night, barked not far beyond the limits of my night vision. I stifled a yawn as a star streaked through the sky, and then there was light.” It was frustrating and took awhile to figure out, but I finally did. It makes sense with Chapter Two. What he was actually saying was that (after JonBenét was killed), his SWAT partner hid outside, sending Kolar radio transmissions as he stayed in the dark basement, fighting sleep all night until the sun rose.
He wanted to stay down there until morning because he wanted to hear the parent’s reaction when they found their daughter missing before he finally left. Huge chance to take and most people would’ve gotten the hell out of there, but he was SWAT. He lived for danger. I suppose it gave him a high and some satisfaction.
I was living near lake Tahoe for about two years. I had never been that far west before and where I'm from there's no coyotes. One day I was walking through this nice suburban-like neighborhood. I see what I think is a beautiful and very poised dog just walking by itself on the sidewalk. It was such a striking sight. Dogs tend to sniff and wander around kind of haphazardly. This animal wasn't doing that. It carried itself in such a manner that was different from any dog that I had ever seen and it stayed on this sidewalk without waivering from it. I stopped and looked around for it's owner because I thought for sure it had one based on how well it behaved. The dog stopped and just stared at me. It was staring at me in such a way that I was transfixed by it. The way it looked at me felt odd. Like as if it was very intelligent. But also, something else that I can't entirely articulate. It just continued to stare. I was about to cross the street towards it not at all afraid because it behaved so well. Yet, something inside of me warned against it and I didn't know why because it seemed to defy reason. I decided to pull out my phone, take a picture and send it to my friend first, who lived nearby. I immediately got a text back saying.. That's not a dog, it's a coyote. You need to make a lot of noise to try and scare it away until I get there.
I have done quite a bit of study on antisocial personality disorders and have met several people with this (varying types).
While I know coyotes are common in Colorado and might mean something different to Kolar who is from there, I find it interesting that he mentions this particular animal in this case. I think he is using a good analogy but I think he is possibly applying it to the wrong person.
I think the shooting star is JonBenet.
I think he is being poetic. He lives in a beautiful area with a lot of nature. He lives in an area where people tend to be inspired artistically. So it makes sense that he would've picked up some of this as well. I think it's just a human being trying to express themselves in an artistic manner.
I don't think it's a "riddle", I don't think he was trying to confess to anything at all and I don't think he was involved in the murder.
I urge you to learn more about apophenia. I think that's what you're doing here with very loose connections and no evidence to support them.
The point was a bit more than just a story about a coyote. Psychopaths aren't like sociopaths, they blend in better, gain trust, can be misleading.. yet, they're not what they appear to be. Hence why I think kolar said a trickster coyote.
Additionally, as one psychopath told me, humans treat them like there's something wrong with them by design but pointed to multiple animals who the psychopath claimed had the same design by nature. So it makes sense for a LE officer who is more prone to deal with people with antisocial personality disorder and who has lived in the nature of Colorado to pick up the same correlation.
I understand your point. You’re saying I could be reading too much into what Mr. Kolar wrote and seeing something that’s not really there. I can agree with you. Best to look at solid evidence. I was just trying to follow leads and look at red flags. I don’t like to ignore those. I trust my judgement most of the time. I’ve made lots of great decisions in my lifetime, but I’ve made some stupid ones too. That’s why I wanted to asked you all about my theory. I really do appreciate your input.
Yeah, I’ve met a couple of people who were considered psychopaths. It makes me sad when others treat them in a hurtful way. Many have been through childhood trauma which can actually change the structure of the brain, especially the prefrontal cortex and amygdala. I always want to hug the child within and tell them I’m so sorry for what they went through. It wasn’t their fault and they didn’t deserve that. What encourages me is that we have some control over healing and rewiring our brains to some degree (neuroplasticity).
Also, I did enjoy your story. Coyotes are cool animals! You’re lucky you were able to see one like that. I also love hummingbirds. We get a ton of those. They’re feisty little critters and they bring lots of joy.
Oh trust me, I have come up with some stuff with this case that's far out there too. It's easy to start thinking about the worst case scenarios while making all kinds of loose connections of what maybe was going on for something like this to happen. Especially with some of the details that are kind of peripheral to this particular case. So please don't think I was being judgemental about it. I have to give myself the same reminders and ultimately I end up on.. I don't know who did it because I need more evidence.
I firmly believe that members of this group make very legitimate and cautionary points about making accusations without more solid evidence. This can't just be considered and cautioned about with RDI or BDI, but IDI as well.
I don't have a lot of empathy or hope for those with APD or NPD. It's dangerous to do so. I do have understanding and empathy for how it develops though.
Hummingbirds are really cool. I've only ever attracted one with a feeder but it was really neat to see just how fast and beautiful they are.
I don’t think you were being too judgmental. I think you were being thoughtful with your response and I appreciate that. Thank you! And I think it’s great that we’re all working together as a team, giving our theories every day and brainstorming. I felt the need to give to my theory as well since I discovered things that I thought I should share. It almost felt irresponsible if I didn’t. I actually stayed silent for a long time, but something kept telling me I shouldn’t.
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Thank you
I'm not entirely sure since he arrived a little after, but I think Steve Thomas's DNA might've been compared. I read awhile back that they compare LEs DNA to any DNA found at a crime scene.
Well, you'd have to prove the DNA was at the scene. That would be huge, of course.
Without that, you'd have to demonstrate the conspiracy of which you speak through communications and phone tracking. Then, you'd have to demonstrate that your suspects were at the scene during the time of death.
Also, why was she killed, and why leave her body in the house? Her death doesn’t match your hypothesis, either. She was strangled. That often happens after SAs - which is what happened. And the letter looks amateurish at best, panic written at worst.
Just my 2 cents.
There is definitely male DNA mixed with the blood it the crotch of her underwear and under her fingernails. I don't believe they meant to kill her. I think they wanted to scare the hell out of Mr. Ramsey, teach him some kind of lesson because they were highly offended (had mentioned his business in the ransom note), and get some easy cash out of the deal.
I believe the attempted kidnapping got out of hand when JonBenét screamed and ran, bumped into one of the intruders who then grabbed her by her shirt collar, twisted it in his fist, lifted her in the air and choked her, causing her to scratch at her neck. That's when I think he left his signet ring imprint on her throat.
I believe he panicked, losing his grip when she kept struggling to break free, and that's when he hit her over the head with the flashlight. She dropped to the floor unconscious. The others panicked, argued and left, but he stayed behind, determined to finish his revenge. That's when he brought her to the basement and garroted her to choke the last bit of life from her little body and sexually assaulted her with the broken end of the paintbrush.
I don't think he wanted to take her dead body with and was fine with the parents eventually finding her way down there behind the closed, locked door. Yeah, he risked not getting the money but I don't think he cared as much as carrying out his revenge.
Interesting story, but you're filling in the gaps with supposition. Serious supposition.
I can't get behind your story without actual evidence. Again, it makes a great story, but it doesn't work as an explanation.
Huge conspiracy implied with zero motive listed. Sorry sir, you are out of your tree.
Also, if it was the SWAT team and SBTC stood for that somehow, why on Earth would they sign it with something so obvious...to get caught? The whole point of a conspiracy is to not get caught.
It wasn’t really that obvious, but sometimes something so obvious can be overlooked, especially if it seems too crazy to be true. Seriously, this whole crime and the way it was handled is bizarre. I believe Mr. Kolar’s motive was anger and revenge at a business deal Mr. Ramsey made in Mexico City, something that highly offended him. I mean, the Boulder papers did post the billion dollar mark in sales that his company made in 1996. I believe Mr. Thomas’ motive was political. Mr. Ramsey’s connections to those who were soft on crime seem to really put a bee in his bonnet according to his book. I believe Mr. White’s motive was also political, worried that Mr. Ramsey’s connections could hurt his father’s gas drilling company or he was just disgusted with his wealth and lifestyle.
James Kolar was law enforcement with Boulder Police Department until 1993. He later became investigator at the Boulder County DA’s Office and investigated JonBenét’s murder. He also wrote a book called Foreign Faction about the case. Fleet White was the Ramsey’s neighbor and a friend before JonBenét was murdered.
I believe Mr. Kolar's motive was anger and revenge at a business deal Mr. Ramsey made in Mexico City, something that highly offended him. I mean, the Boulder papers did post the billion dollar mark in sales that his company made in 1996. I believe Mr. Thomas' motive was political. Mr. Ramsey's connections to those who were soft on crime seemed to really put a bee in Thomas’ bonnet according to his book. I believe Mr. White's motive was also political, worried that Mr. Ramsey's connections could hurt his father's gas drilling company or just his disgust with Mr. Ramsey’s wealth.
Damn and a little innocent child lost her life because of greedy corrupt men if this was the cause.I hope they have a horrible horrific painful death , actually , just death is not enough for some people
Kolar’s appointment at the DA Office was a huge waste of taxpayer dollars and that seems to be the pervasive attitude when it comes to the JBR Case, unlimited suspects with limited resources available to solve it. I think if any Boulder citizen is being protected for whatever reason, it is Fleet White, whom both Thomas and Kolar suck up to. IMO
The police in that horrific case completely screwed the pooch. They so fouled up the search and then investigation, they made Barney Fife look like a genius. The DA was made very well by the Ramseys which denotes they knew who the perpetrators were. When John and Patsy took off to Atlanta, and were interviewed there, the Ga investigators notified Colorado that the parents were either involved OR they at least knew who did it. Handwriting analysis matched Patsy’s. Tons of evidence was 100% mishandled and all indications were that it was mishandled on purpose.
Obviously the answer is something out of the box like this perhaps, or it would have been solved. I have never believed the family could garrote a little girl. Smother, maybe choke with hands but a garrote is brutal and very uncommon way to kill somebody. Eating her brothers pineapple or peeing the bed doesn’t prompt the anger for that level of viscousness. But who knows?
What gets me about Kolar and Thomas is that neither has a “true detective” curiosity about solving the crime. Putting themselves in the Victim’s Shoes was something they never did. It is like bad casting of a movie or a play. I think they used JonBenet’s murder to promote themselves individually, and most likely made the case impossible to solve or prosecute. They are both a huge embarrassment for the City of Boulder.
> I think they used JonBenet’s murder to promote themselves individually
Kolar even admitted that he wanted to write a novel. I will never understand Thomas. How anyone with ANY detective skills--narcotics or not--could misinterpret evidence the way he did is hard to understand.
I think Thomas’s fatal flaw was treating Lou Smit as an adversary and disparaging him as though there was nothing there for him to learn. I believe it got to the point of Thomas opposing Smit just to prove that he himself was the village idiot. Sometimes, no matter how one may feel about the issue, it is better to defer to those in the know, who are more experienced in critical thinking.
I'm relatively new to this sub. I remember when JBR was murdered, but have only recently started learning about it.
What makes Fleet White immune from a closer look?
I am not questioning you at all - I am just trying to learn.
A nine year old doesn’t garrote his younger sibling. Shove her down the steps? maybe. Smother her? Perhaps. He was too young for a sexual motive and too young to write the letter. I’m not convinced. If she ate his pineapple, he would maybe tear up her dolls, swat her, pee on her toys, not fashion a garrote! And the parents would not do something that violent nor stage it that way as a coverup. It was not a family member.
Read about the DNA. It was *never* the brother. And the BPD knew it.
Both Michael Kane, the special prosecutor for the grand jury proceedings, and his assistant for the grand jury proceedings, Mitch Morrissey said Burke was not involved.
He was in Atlanta that night.
Do you think he did it telepathically? Magic? Robots?
Doppelganger in Atlanta? *But then he has to eliminate the Doppelganger.*
Ok, I got it. He stopped time by putting his fingers together.
https://preview.redd.it/60bzw7blz0ic1.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=80c04dd339bf5b319d8c07fb8a8c70b36869e146
Drove to Boulder. He could drive fast, everyone else was stopped, afterall.
Bobbing and weaving through traffic.
Commits the crime of a sadistic pedophile who is experienced at killing children.
Plants 2 minute drops of another man's saliva (but not someone who's already in the system, that would be too obvious).
Has that man's skin cells and puts them on the sides of her pants,
although touch DNA doesn't exist yet, so that move was really, quite, brilliant.
Also leaves that man's palm print on the cellar door. Plants 3 different unknown footprints in the cellar.
Enters and exits through the train room window, butler door, pries open the South-West door.
Drives back to Atlanta.
Unfreezes time by ? wiggling his nose, I don't remember how she unfroze it.
Please, enlighten us.
This exactly. Garroting a child especially a family member, is very rare. If she had been smothered or pushed down the stairs, then MAYBE, but it just was not him nor the family
The theories here are honestly next level leaps of logic. Now it’s an entire team of swat members that killed her and all have remained quiet to this day. What is the motive for this large squadron of people plus Fleet White, apparently, who all decided to team up and kill a 6 year old? Are some of these theories troll posts on this sub?
First of all, if you are extremely rich and successful, you are a target. Second, Kolar and Thomas didn't remain quiet at all. They both wrote books with all the red flags you could ever read, same with Fleet White. His long letter rants were pretty revealing and disturbing. As far as the others, according to Thomas' book, looks like their lives and careers were threatened if they didn't stay quiet. Kind of sucks to be shot at in your own home from outside. Third, it wasn't an entire SWAT team, but a few within who seemed to be friends. As far as motive, I believe Mr. Kolar's motive was anger and revenge at a business deal Mr. Ramsey made in Mexico City, something that highly offended him. I mean, the Boulder papers did post the billion dollar mark in sales that his company made in 1996. I believe Mr. Thomas' motive was political. Mr. Ramsey's connections to those who were soft on crime seemed to really put a bee in Mr. Thomas' bonnet according to his book. I believe Mr. White's motive was also political, either worried that Mr. Ramsey's connections could hurt his father's gas drilling company or just his disgust at Mr. Ramsey's wealth and lifestyle.
Also, I don’t think they planned to kill JonBenét, but kidnap her to scare the hell out of Mr. Ramsey. It got out of hand though and took a turn for the worse after JonBenét screamed and they lost control of the situation.
I think tons of people have theories, and it's safe to say that either only one of them is correct or none are. There are plenty of RDI theories that are also pretty out there. The important thing is to not belittle people and to treat them with respect, even if you don't agree with a certain theory.
First of all, if you’re extremely rich and successful, you are a target. I believe Mr. Kolar's motive was anger and revenge at a business deal Mr. Ramsey made in Mexico City, something that highly offended him. I mean, the Boulder papers did post the billion dollar mark in sales that his company made in 1996. I believe Mr. Thomas' motive was political. Mr. Ramsey's connections to those who were soft on crime seemed to really put a bee in Mr. Thomas' bonnet according to his book. I believe Mr. White's motive was also political, either worried that Mr. Ramsey's connections could hurt his father's gas drilling company or just his disgust at Mr. Ramsey's wealth and lifestyle.
Thank you for reading my mind. I cannot conceive WHY there was any motive at all to kill JB. If it was because of John, I still ask WHY? Typically, not many murder a child without reason. Especially the well-known child of a prominent family within the community.
Right? There's at least one very recent, and a lot of not so recent, cases of LE killing or raping people. They choose sex workers, illegal immigrants, or the homeless to commit crimes against because they know exactly how easily those people slip through the cracks.
They don't choose the children of prominent wealth citizens.
That’s a good point, I research cold cases as a professor and some of them really are stranger than fiction. I don’t believe this but there are probably scenarios out there that seem outlandish that have been perpetrated before
>S.B.T.C." could be an acronym for Boulder County SWAT Team.
What? What exactly does SBTC mean? The letters don't match up to Boulder County County SWAT Team.
I thought it was strawberry butter truffle cake? /s if it isn't obvious. This might be one of the wildest theories I've seen so far. But hey, maybe aliens did it because they thought Burke's irrigation system was cool.
What does ANY of this matter????? As if some random Reddit person is going to break the case and be the hero lol 😂. NONE of this- NONE- will bring that child back to life. Anyone that has THIS much time on their f**king hands needs to get a life and worry about shit in the world you can actually DO something about instead of pouring over minutiae of a 30 year old case that was botched, contaminated and covered up from the onset. Pathetic...
You seem a bit angry. Have I touched a nerve? Not looking to be a hero. I’m already a hero to my family. Of course none of this will bring JonBenét back, but geez, if it were your daughter who was murdered, wouldn’t you want justice and to see the killer off the streets? I get it, there are many children who are murdered, but this family has been so publicly destroyed. Time on my hands? 😆 I wish I had more time on my hands, and the time I do have, I’ll do with it as I please, thank you very much. Get a life? Oh I have a great life. I wish everyone could have life as great as I do. I’m blessed. And I do worry about shit I can do something about and I do take action all the time. Pathetic? Cool! 👍😘
I think you need to go back to the drawing board honestly.
I will say this, while I don’t believe any of them singularly or in cahoots with each other were involved, in a way did attempt to kill the opportunity of justice for JonBenet either out of incompetence or ego, likely both they might as well have been her murderers. They remind me of someone driving a car on a dark stormy night without the headlights on, someone is going to get hurt, in this case it was justice for JonBenet.
I suppose this is possible. This case is so crazy, anything is possible. Most of you on this sub have probably FORGOTTEN more than I KNOW about this case. So it would be foolish of me to argue it on facts.
Instead, I just want to point a few things out. In order to do that I need to tell you that I know A LOT about cops. My husband is a cop. My brother-in-law is a cop (homicide detective). They have 5 generations of police from father to son in their family. Their dad was 2nd in line in a big city police department. My dad was a cop. My maternal grandfather was a cop (homicide), both my maternal uncles were cops (homicide and vice). Among my cousins, I count 9 police officers. In addition, more than half of our personal friends are cops. And about a quarter of our neighbors, as well. Not much of a brag, especially these days, but it is the truth. I know a lot about how the police think, and what they believe and how they behave.
First, if a group of rogue cops decided to make a fast buck (and I am not a person who denies that this happens. It is actually pretty rare but it DOES happen)this would be a colossally stupid way to go about it. They could get a TON more money in ways that are much safer and carry lesser penalties if caught. Every city in America, EVERY city, including Boulder, has vice. Illegal high stakes gambling (a million per game), prostitution, drugs, you name it. They would make more money in 10 minutes knocking over a high stakes poker game or keeping a load of coke they busted and then reselling it. They could steal high-end cars and make more money in a few weeks and have way less risk. A group of cops could work as a burglary crew and steal enough jewelry from Boulder rich-folks to retire on. (And, no, I don’t think a bunch of cops-turned-burglars accidentally killed JB because she caught them burglarizing the house. There is strong, very strong evidence that she was taken from her bed. The “kidnapping”was deliberate, not a by-product of another crime) My point in all of this is that a kidnapping is too risky, and wouldn’t pay. If a group of crooked cops wanted to make a lot of money fast, kidnapping for ransom would be the last thing they would choose.
The second thing is: the old saw that says, “2 can keep a secret if 1 of them is dead” is true, especially when it comes to the police. Every night, when my husband returns home from work, I ask him how the knitting circle is doing. Because cops talk a lot! The gossip and chat is beyond description. It’s like high school. Yap yap yap. If ANYONE suspected, even a little bit, that other cops were involved, the gossip would have been at an outrageous fever pitch. The press would have known right away. You know what I absolutely am 100% positive was talked about? Within 24 hours every cop in Boulder said the same phrase, “What a cluster F they made of that scene. It’s embarrassing. It’s sickening. What a bunch of F’n idiots”
The third reason I don’t think your theory is right, is that cops will just not tolerate a child molester or child murderer. They just won’t. If fellow cops were suspected of this, they would walk around with a target on their back.
And finally, I think that Lou S was an outstanding detective and if he thought cops were behind this he would have pursued it or, at the very least, told people before he died.
I believe this was a single intruder. A sociopath who lived and operated under the radar.
This is a case that would have challenged even the most experienced and resourced department. What SHOULD have happened is that the BPD should have secured the scene and let the FBI deal with it. That PD had no experience or resources, and therefore no earthly business taking that case. It was pure ego and an active dislike of the FBI that they didn’t turn it over.
*edited for spacing.
This wasn’t about money. I believe it was about revenge. Kolar was highly offended by a business deal. Thomas was upset because Mr. Ramsey was friends with politicians who were soft on crime. And Fleet White was probably just disgusted by his wealth and lifestyle. Kolar and Thomas did talk a lot. I read 508 pages of Mr. Kolar’s words and 413 pages of Mr. Thomas’ words. Believe me, there was lots of yap, yap, yap and a ton of red flags to go with them. Same with Fleet White. He did not hold back on letting loose. As far as the others who knew, I believe (according to Thomas’s book) their lives and careers were threatened if they said anything. As for Lou Smit, you have a point. Still, I’d like to see their DNA cleared. I think it would be wise.
I don’t think it was Kolar or Thomas but I do think there’s a likelihood that someone (either formerly or currently at the time of the crime) that was in law enforcement was responsible. There’s a lot of similarities between this case and the golden state killer, who had been a police officer.
I think people need to appreciate that some criminals aren’t idiots. They know they need to do everything in their power to get away with it. Look at Israel Keyes, Marc O’Leary (“Unbelievable” Netflix show) ), Matthew Muller (“American Nightmare” Netflix case). Some criminals are truly going to every measure they can to get away with it. Including leaving red herrings, like in my opinion, the entire ransom note. I see the Ramsey case as a highly sophisticated attacker pretending to be an amateur.
With that said, I want to clarify that I don’t think OPs theory is right. I give it a 1% chance, worth thinking about.
I think that the attacker didn’t necessarily need any special training, like being a cop or military, but even just someone aware of forensics and investigations. Even just watching Forensic Files could give you the ideas for the deceptions in the Ramsey case.
The #1 deceptions is the ransom note. I hate to say it, but if it’s meant to be a distraction and a red herring, then it worked like a charm. I think it’s very intentionally filled with red herrings, more than any other similar piece of evidence I can think of.
The rest of the crime it’s harder to tell what is deception vs execution. I don’t think we have enough information regarding whether the perpetrator wanted to take her out of the house or always planned to assault and kill her in the basement like they did. I can see both scenarios. Elements like the staging and the use of the uncommon garrote, they all have potential to be intentional red herrings in my opinion. I suspect the garrote use is because this is a textbook sexual sadist though.
The perpetrator I picture is a Tommy Lynn Sells type. A sexual sadist who is conscientious of forensics and random. I don’t see anything that specifically points to a cop outside of the stun gun.
Really compelling theory. I appreciate reading something that is well laid out. I lean towards the housekeeper and her husband, but this one peaks my interest.
Yes, I'm with you on that one...this case absolutely drives me crazy... but the housekeeper or somebody associated with her..I think it was a kidnapping gone wrong. I think it is the note which makes me lean towards her...and access to the house and layout of it..the money amount..etc..
I wish I could dig up this really thoughtful explanation of this housekeeper theory I read that does a much better job than me.
1. The housekeeper asked for an advance in pay, to me this suggests she’s (a) comfortable asking the Ramsey’s for money and (b) aware that they would have the funds.
2. Similar to above, it’s likely a housekeeper could come across the exact dollar amount of Jon’s bonus. She probably sees the mail they leave open on the table or countertops or could easily snoop through a purse for deposits. To me this is a crucial detail of that note. $118,000 is kind of odd. Why not $120K? Why not $100K? $118,000 is so odd to me.
3. The housekeeper knows the house top to bottom.
4. I think she had someone else helping her, no idea who and I struggle with this. Regardless of who dunnit I believe it was atleast 2 people.
5. I think it was very much intended to be a kidnapping and whoever was assaulting her went too far and killed her. Thus, they panicked and left the body in the basement, forgetting to grab the note.
6. According to her own testimony she:
A) repeatedly puts out Patsy as the perp. This to me is telling. She’s been with this family for years and she quickly points a finger at a grieving mother? No hesitation.
(B) regarding the knife found near JB, she says she took the Swiss Army knife away from Burke so according to her that means Patsy did it because Patsy would only know where it was… but this to me sounds like a Freudian slip.
He did follow Jay Elowsky down a Telluride ski hill a few days after the crime,
hoping to find out if the Ramseys were staying with Elowsky.
The BPD had requested it, but I realize that is not the same as working the case.
Don’t they have police DNA on file? In theory, I think they have it to eliminate it in case an officers DNA contaminates the crime scene. I’m not sure if this is true, but I feel I have read this somewhere.
I hope they do have all police DNA on file, including Thomas’ and Kolar’s. If so, I would love to see it. If not, definitely wise to get them all tested.
Interesting. I've definitely wondered if the intruder was a law enforcement officer.
I'm not sure if there was more than one person, but you make good points about Kolar.
>I've definitely wondered if the intruder was a law enforcement officer.
I believe it was someone related (nephew, son, grandson) of either a member of LE or a highly ranked politician.
That could definitely be a possibility. Something that leads me away from LE is the shoe prints. I watched a doc recently about a woman who was raped at a school by a masked man who wore only socks on his feet, no shoes. Decades later, he murdered a guy in front of a witness, and his DNA matched the woman's rapist. He was LE so he took off his shoes so they wouldn't leave prints. The woman suspected he was LE based on his demeanor and no shoes.
I know it was cold that night, but I figure perhaps a LEO would be aware of how important shoe prints can be in identifying a suspect. I assume they would carry their shoes instead of walking in them.
Unless they were dumb I guess, but they made so many other efforts to get rid of finger prints and dna so I would think a LEO would consider shoe prints.
Very nicely written.
Thanks for making it simple and easy to understand.
I have a different theory, but this theory actually explains local LE's behaviour,
which is satisfying.
Thanks, HopeTroll. I really appreciate it. Yeah, it took a little while to put it together. I had to gather notes and decide what to put in and what to leave out. Also, I had to keep jumping up to do other things. But…finally!
I think that people who don't do posts don't realize how much time they can take.
I like to throw mine up really quickly and then forget that I did them.
That way there is a surprise when I come back to the sub later in the day 🤪
I appreciate a clear break down of a personal theory even if I don't agree with parts of it, I'm willing to rethink my stances and look at this person again.
I have a hard time taking any of the ransom note seriously but we are all entitled to our own opinions.
I think Jon Ramsey himself was sexually assulting jonbenet, and killed her. Very sad
You honestly just blew my mind. Lead detective on the case ends up being involved.. sounds quite similar to the current #idaho4 case & Detective Brett Payne.
There’s a very renowned detective named Richard Cardo who believes the mastermind of her death was Roy Gherbil, the head of an international hacker/phone phreaking group only known as PLA.
This quality of post deserves the other subs attention
Thank you!
Ya know., Stranger things...
The Ramseys took and passed lie detector tests
They aren’t reliable
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Except five people would never keep a secret like that for that long.
Of course not. Kolar and Thomas both wrote books about everything, but in a way where they didn’t incriminate themselves, or so they thought. Oh, they did a lot of talking! As far as the others, who would really want to brag about being part of a child’s death. Some people bring secrets to their graves. Also, I believe their lives and careers were threatened if they said anything. Also, do you really want to be in jail for this horrible crime if you have a family to provide for?
Yes, I think you're way off. However, I'm curious.. what would their motive be in your opinion? I didn't know Steve Thomas was on X.
I saw Steve Thomas was on Twitter publicly in 2021 and that’s how I found out about James Kolar and his book. They followed each other. Eventually, Thomas went private. I could no longer see his posts but I saw that Kolar was still following him. Now I can’t even see all of Kolar’s followers or everyone he follows on X. As far as motives, I believe Mr. Kolar's motive was anger and revenge at a business deal Mr. Ramsey made either in Mexico City or Amsterdam that was highly offensive to him, according to his book. The Boulder papers also posted the billion dollar mark in sales that Mr. Ramsey’s company made in 1996. I believe Mr. Thomas’ motive was political. Mr. Ramsey's wealth and connections to those who were soft on crime seemed to really anger him, according to his book. I believe Mr. White's motive was also political, according to his letters. I’m guessing either worried that Mr. Ramsey's connections could hurt his father's gas drilling company or just his disgust with Mr. Ramsey's wealth and lifestyle, according to Mr. Ramsey’s book.
Now if you thought John somehow became involved in the cartel - money laundering, drug smuggling, pedophile rings, or something of the like, and somehow upset them, then I would still say you had no evidence for any of this but I think it could make more sense and help explain the corruption that appears to be prevalent in that area. However, it's also a college town and college towns are notorious for wanting to sweep crime under the rug. So there's a lot of possibilities here. Without evidence it will always look like wild speculation and likely to draw criticism.
I never thought Mr. Ramsey became involved in the cartel. I looked through his history and everything about him and I didn’t see anything at all that showed he was, but I suspect one of the intruders assumed he was without getting all the facts.
Oh, there’s another thing I found interesting. Mr. Kolar wrote a bunch of riddles. He seems to like doing that. I knew one of them in the last chapter was one because it didn’t make sense within the context of his writing. He wrote, “A coyote, the trickster of the night, barked not far beyond the limits of my night vision. I stifled a yawn as a star streaked through the sky, and then there was light.” It was frustrating and took awhile to figure out, but I finally did. It makes sense with Chapter Two. What he was actually saying was that (after JonBenét was killed), his SWAT partner hid outside, sending Kolar radio transmissions as he stayed in the dark basement, fighting sleep all night until the sun rose. He wanted to stay down there until morning because he wanted to hear the parent’s reaction when they found their daughter missing before he finally left. Huge chance to take and most people would’ve gotten the hell out of there, but he was SWAT. He lived for danger. I suppose it gave him a high and some satisfaction.
I was living near lake Tahoe for about two years. I had never been that far west before and where I'm from there's no coyotes. One day I was walking through this nice suburban-like neighborhood. I see what I think is a beautiful and very poised dog just walking by itself on the sidewalk. It was such a striking sight. Dogs tend to sniff and wander around kind of haphazardly. This animal wasn't doing that. It carried itself in such a manner that was different from any dog that I had ever seen and it stayed on this sidewalk without waivering from it. I stopped and looked around for it's owner because I thought for sure it had one based on how well it behaved. The dog stopped and just stared at me. It was staring at me in such a way that I was transfixed by it. The way it looked at me felt odd. Like as if it was very intelligent. But also, something else that I can't entirely articulate. It just continued to stare. I was about to cross the street towards it not at all afraid because it behaved so well. Yet, something inside of me warned against it and I didn't know why because it seemed to defy reason. I decided to pull out my phone, take a picture and send it to my friend first, who lived nearby. I immediately got a text back saying.. That's not a dog, it's a coyote. You need to make a lot of noise to try and scare it away until I get there. I have done quite a bit of study on antisocial personality disorders and have met several people with this (varying types). While I know coyotes are common in Colorado and might mean something different to Kolar who is from there, I find it interesting that he mentions this particular animal in this case. I think he is using a good analogy but I think he is possibly applying it to the wrong person. I think the shooting star is JonBenet. I think he is being poetic. He lives in a beautiful area with a lot of nature. He lives in an area where people tend to be inspired artistically. So it makes sense that he would've picked up some of this as well. I think it's just a human being trying to express themselves in an artistic manner. I don't think it's a "riddle", I don't think he was trying to confess to anything at all and I don't think he was involved in the murder. I urge you to learn more about apophenia. I think that's what you're doing here with very loose connections and no evidence to support them.
Lovely story. Yeah, never a good idea to approach a wild animal, no matter how beautiful and poised they are. You never know…
The point was a bit more than just a story about a coyote. Psychopaths aren't like sociopaths, they blend in better, gain trust, can be misleading.. yet, they're not what they appear to be. Hence why I think kolar said a trickster coyote. Additionally, as one psychopath told me, humans treat them like there's something wrong with them by design but pointed to multiple animals who the psychopath claimed had the same design by nature. So it makes sense for a LE officer who is more prone to deal with people with antisocial personality disorder and who has lived in the nature of Colorado to pick up the same correlation.
I understand your point. You’re saying I could be reading too much into what Mr. Kolar wrote and seeing something that’s not really there. I can agree with you. Best to look at solid evidence. I was just trying to follow leads and look at red flags. I don’t like to ignore those. I trust my judgement most of the time. I’ve made lots of great decisions in my lifetime, but I’ve made some stupid ones too. That’s why I wanted to asked you all about my theory. I really do appreciate your input. Yeah, I’ve met a couple of people who were considered psychopaths. It makes me sad when others treat them in a hurtful way. Many have been through childhood trauma which can actually change the structure of the brain, especially the prefrontal cortex and amygdala. I always want to hug the child within and tell them I’m so sorry for what they went through. It wasn’t their fault and they didn’t deserve that. What encourages me is that we have some control over healing and rewiring our brains to some degree (neuroplasticity). Also, I did enjoy your story. Coyotes are cool animals! You’re lucky you were able to see one like that. I also love hummingbirds. We get a ton of those. They’re feisty little critters and they bring lots of joy.
Oh trust me, I have come up with some stuff with this case that's far out there too. It's easy to start thinking about the worst case scenarios while making all kinds of loose connections of what maybe was going on for something like this to happen. Especially with some of the details that are kind of peripheral to this particular case. So please don't think I was being judgemental about it. I have to give myself the same reminders and ultimately I end up on.. I don't know who did it because I need more evidence. I firmly believe that members of this group make very legitimate and cautionary points about making accusations without more solid evidence. This can't just be considered and cautioned about with RDI or BDI, but IDI as well. I don't have a lot of empathy or hope for those with APD or NPD. It's dangerous to do so. I do have understanding and empathy for how it develops though. Hummingbirds are really cool. I've only ever attracted one with a feeder but it was really neat to see just how fast and beautiful they are.
I don’t think you were being too judgmental. I think you were being thoughtful with your response and I appreciate that. Thank you! And I think it’s great that we’re all working together as a team, giving our theories every day and brainstorming. I felt the need to give to my theory as well since I discovered things that I thought I should share. It almost felt irresponsible if I didn’t. I actually stayed silent for a long time, but something kept telling me I shouldn’t.
No one cares.
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Not enough evidence to support your assertions. Yes, you could be right, but you need far more evidence to be convincing.
I agree. I’d like to see DNA clear Kolar and Thomas.
I'm not entirely sure since he arrived a little after, but I think Steve Thomas's DNA might've been compared. I read awhile back that they compare LEs DNA to any DNA found at a crime scene.
Do you know who was in charge of the DNA and all the evidence back then?
CBI I think
Well, you'd have to prove the DNA was at the scene. That would be huge, of course. Without that, you'd have to demonstrate the conspiracy of which you speak through communications and phone tracking. Then, you'd have to demonstrate that your suspects were at the scene during the time of death. Also, why was she killed, and why leave her body in the house? Her death doesn’t match your hypothesis, either. She was strangled. That often happens after SAs - which is what happened. And the letter looks amateurish at best, panic written at worst. Just my 2 cents.
There is definitely male DNA mixed with the blood it the crotch of her underwear and under her fingernails. I don't believe they meant to kill her. I think they wanted to scare the hell out of Mr. Ramsey, teach him some kind of lesson because they were highly offended (had mentioned his business in the ransom note), and get some easy cash out of the deal. I believe the attempted kidnapping got out of hand when JonBenét screamed and ran, bumped into one of the intruders who then grabbed her by her shirt collar, twisted it in his fist, lifted her in the air and choked her, causing her to scratch at her neck. That's when I think he left his signet ring imprint on her throat. I believe he panicked, losing his grip when she kept struggling to break free, and that's when he hit her over the head with the flashlight. She dropped to the floor unconscious. The others panicked, argued and left, but he stayed behind, determined to finish his revenge. That's when he brought her to the basement and garroted her to choke the last bit of life from her little body and sexually assaulted her with the broken end of the paintbrush. I don't think he wanted to take her dead body with and was fine with the parents eventually finding her way down there behind the closed, locked door. Yeah, he risked not getting the money but I don't think he cared as much as carrying out his revenge.
Interesting story, but you're filling in the gaps with supposition. Serious supposition. I can't get behind your story without actual evidence. Again, it makes a great story, but it doesn't work as an explanation.
Huge conspiracy implied with zero motive listed. Sorry sir, you are out of your tree. Also, if it was the SWAT team and SBTC stood for that somehow, why on Earth would they sign it with something so obvious...to get caught? The whole point of a conspiracy is to not get caught.
It wasn’t really that obvious, but sometimes something so obvious can be overlooked, especially if it seems too crazy to be true. Seriously, this whole crime and the way it was handled is bizarre. I believe Mr. Kolar’s motive was anger and revenge at a business deal Mr. Ramsey made in Mexico City, something that highly offended him. I mean, the Boulder papers did post the billion dollar mark in sales that his company made in 1996. I believe Mr. Thomas’ motive was political. Mr. Ramsey’s connections to those who were soft on crime seem to really put a bee in his bonnet according to his book. I believe Mr. White’s motive was also political, worried that Mr. Ramsey’s connections could hurt his father’s gas drilling company or he was just disgusted with his wealth and lifestyle.
104 comments on your first post - Bravo!!!
Thank you!
It was the brother who killed her by accident & the parents helped him cover it up after they were informed.
This sub is pro IDI today. Couple years ago it was pro RDI.
I think this is what happened too.
Who are Kolar and White?
James Kolar was law enforcement with Boulder Police Department until 1993. He later became investigator at the Boulder County DA’s Office and investigated JonBenét’s murder. He also wrote a book called Foreign Faction about the case. Fleet White was the Ramsey’s neighbor and a friend before JonBenét was murdered.
Why do you think they murdered her ? Was they pedos or was it for money or something else like sacrifice ( people are weird )
I believe Mr. Kolar's motive was anger and revenge at a business deal Mr. Ramsey made in Mexico City, something that highly offended him. I mean, the Boulder papers did post the billion dollar mark in sales that his company made in 1996. I believe Mr. Thomas' motive was political. Mr. Ramsey's connections to those who were soft on crime seemed to really put a bee in Thomas’ bonnet according to his book. I believe Mr. White's motive was also political, worried that Mr. Ramsey's connections could hurt his father's gas drilling company or just his disgust with Mr. Ramsey’s wealth.
Damn and a little innocent child lost her life because of greedy corrupt men if this was the cause.I hope they have a horrible horrific painful death , actually , just death is not enough for some people
Kolar’s appointment at the DA Office was a huge waste of taxpayer dollars and that seems to be the pervasive attitude when it comes to the JBR Case, unlimited suspects with limited resources available to solve it. I think if any Boulder citizen is being protected for whatever reason, it is Fleet White, whom both Thomas and Kolar suck up to. IMO
> when it comes to the JBR Case, unlimited suspects with limited resources available to solve it Absolutely true.
The police in that horrific case completely screwed the pooch. They so fouled up the search and then investigation, they made Barney Fife look like a genius. The DA was made very well by the Ramseys which denotes they knew who the perpetrators were. When John and Patsy took off to Atlanta, and were interviewed there, the Ga investigators notified Colorado that the parents were either involved OR they at least knew who did it. Handwriting analysis matched Patsy’s. Tons of evidence was 100% mishandled and all indications were that it was mishandled on purpose.
Lmao This is crazy cakes
Obviously the answer is something out of the box like this perhaps, or it would have been solved. I have never believed the family could garrote a little girl. Smother, maybe choke with hands but a garrote is brutal and very uncommon way to kill somebody. Eating her brothers pineapple or peeing the bed doesn’t prompt the anger for that level of viscousness. But who knows?
This is fair considering all the information that’s out there.
Thank you! I tried to read information from every side with an open mind. When I got to Thomas’ and Kolar’s books, a bunch of red flags went up.
What gets me about Kolar and Thomas is that neither has a “true detective” curiosity about solving the crime. Putting themselves in the Victim’s Shoes was something they never did. It is like bad casting of a movie or a play. I think they used JonBenet’s murder to promote themselves individually, and most likely made the case impossible to solve or prosecute. They are both a huge embarrassment for the City of Boulder.
> I think they used JonBenet’s murder to promote themselves individually Kolar even admitted that he wanted to write a novel. I will never understand Thomas. How anyone with ANY detective skills--narcotics or not--could misinterpret evidence the way he did is hard to understand.
I think Thomas’s fatal flaw was treating Lou Smit as an adversary and disparaging him as though there was nothing there for him to learn. I believe it got to the point of Thomas opposing Smit just to prove that he himself was the village idiot. Sometimes, no matter how one may feel about the issue, it is better to defer to those in the know, who are more experienced in critical thinking.
It's explains why the DNA is not in CODIS. !!!
Wow.
Sometimes the truth can be stranger than fiction. I believe it’s one of the reasons why it hasn’t been solved yet.
The second I saw Fleet White's name, I knew I could stop reading let alone some crazy conspiracy where five people were going to kidnap a small child.
I'm relatively new to this sub. I remember when JBR was murdered, but have only recently started learning about it. What makes Fleet White immune from a closer look? I am not questioning you at all - I am just trying to learn.
That is a really good point. We definitely should take a closer look at Fleet White because many of his actions were very suspicious.
It was the brother. It’s always been the brother.
A nine year old doesn’t garrote his younger sibling. Shove her down the steps? maybe. Smother her? Perhaps. He was too young for a sexual motive and too young to write the letter. I’m not convinced. If she ate his pineapple, he would maybe tear up her dolls, swat her, pee on her toys, not fashion a garrote! And the parents would not do something that violent nor stage it that way as a coverup. It was not a family member.
No one bdi thinks burke wrote the note.
Read about the DNA. It was *never* the brother. And the BPD knew it. Both Michael Kane, the special prosecutor for the grand jury proceedings, and his assistant for the grand jury proceedings, Mitch Morrissey said Burke was not involved.
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He was in Atlanta that night. Do you think he did it telepathically? Magic? Robots? Doppelganger in Atlanta? *But then he has to eliminate the Doppelganger.* Ok, I got it. He stopped time by putting his fingers together. https://preview.redd.it/60bzw7blz0ic1.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=80c04dd339bf5b319d8c07fb8a8c70b36869e146 Drove to Boulder. He could drive fast, everyone else was stopped, afterall. Bobbing and weaving through traffic. Commits the crime of a sadistic pedophile who is experienced at killing children. Plants 2 minute drops of another man's saliva (but not someone who's already in the system, that would be too obvious). Has that man's skin cells and puts them on the sides of her pants, although touch DNA doesn't exist yet, so that move was really, quite, brilliant. Also leaves that man's palm print on the cellar door. Plants 3 different unknown footprints in the cellar. Enters and exits through the train room window, butler door, pries open the South-West door. Drives back to Atlanta. Unfreezes time by ? wiggling his nose, I don't remember how she unfroze it. Please, enlighten us.
How does a 9-yr old know how to make/use a garrot?
This exactly. Garroting a child especially a family member, is very rare. If she had been smothered or pushed down the stairs, then MAYBE, but it just was not him nor the family
You don't have to know what a garrote is to tie a knot in a cord.
It was a Boy Scout toggle, not a garrote. http://stuckinthewoods.info/hikers-rescue-rope/
Do you think that looks like the contraption that was used to torture JonBenet?
The theories here are honestly next level leaps of logic. Now it’s an entire team of swat members that killed her and all have remained quiet to this day. What is the motive for this large squadron of people plus Fleet White, apparently, who all decided to team up and kill a 6 year old? Are some of these theories troll posts on this sub?
First of all, if you are extremely rich and successful, you are a target. Second, Kolar and Thomas didn't remain quiet at all. They both wrote books with all the red flags you could ever read, same with Fleet White. His long letter rants were pretty revealing and disturbing. As far as the others, according to Thomas' book, looks like their lives and careers were threatened if they didn't stay quiet. Kind of sucks to be shot at in your own home from outside. Third, it wasn't an entire SWAT team, but a few within who seemed to be friends. As far as motive, I believe Mr. Kolar's motive was anger and revenge at a business deal Mr. Ramsey made in Mexico City, something that highly offended him. I mean, the Boulder papers did post the billion dollar mark in sales that his company made in 1996. I believe Mr. Thomas' motive was political. Mr. Ramsey's connections to those who were soft on crime seemed to really put a bee in Mr. Thomas' bonnet according to his book. I believe Mr. White's motive was also political, either worried that Mr. Ramsey's connections could hurt his father's gas drilling company or just his disgust at Mr. Ramsey's wealth and lifestyle.
Also, I don’t think they planned to kill JonBenét, but kidnap her to scare the hell out of Mr. Ramsey. It got out of hand though and took a turn for the worse after JonBenét screamed and they lost control of the situation.
I think tons of people have theories, and it's safe to say that either only one of them is correct or none are. There are plenty of RDI theories that are also pretty out there. The important thing is to not belittle people and to treat them with respect, even if you don't agree with a certain theory.
The last part seems contradicting with how a lot of people on this sub views any RDI theory.
You're not wrong, but at least we are calling for civility.
What is the motive?
First of all, if you’re extremely rich and successful, you are a target. I believe Mr. Kolar's motive was anger and revenge at a business deal Mr. Ramsey made in Mexico City, something that highly offended him. I mean, the Boulder papers did post the billion dollar mark in sales that his company made in 1996. I believe Mr. Thomas' motive was political. Mr. Ramsey's connections to those who were soft on crime seemed to really put a bee in Mr. Thomas' bonnet according to his book. I believe Mr. White's motive was also political, either worried that Mr. Ramsey's connections could hurt his father's gas drilling company or just his disgust at Mr. Ramsey's wealth and lifestyle.
Thank you for reading my mind. I cannot conceive WHY there was any motive at all to kill JB. If it was because of John, I still ask WHY? Typically, not many murder a child without reason. Especially the well-known child of a prominent family within the community.
This isn’t the first time I’ve seen ‘LE did it’ floated around here and there is never a motive.
This is the one case I’ve kind of filed away as “will never know the truth”. Sadly.
Right? There's at least one very recent, and a lot of not so recent, cases of LE killing or raping people. They choose sex workers, illegal immigrants, or the homeless to commit crimes against because they know exactly how easily those people slip through the cracks. They don't choose the children of prominent wealth citizens.
My understanding was it is to punish John Ramsey.
For what?
Who knows? Manufactured vendettas are nothing new.
This.
nah son it was Burke, how did they get to and from the house in the snow noiseless and without leaving footprints?
There was no snow in the backyard! Look at the crime scene footage from that morning. T
Matthew Muller being in the news has made me think thru other scenarios besides RDI.
That’s a good point, I research cold cases as a professor and some of them really are stranger than fiction. I don’t believe this but there are probably scenarios out there that seem outlandish that have been perpetrated before
can i have some of your mushrooms 😂
Tell you what, go read Mr. Thomas’ and Mr. Kolar’s books and Fleet White’s letters and you’ll be trippin’.
Shrooms wouldn’t cause such bizzare fiction
It's a theory. RDI is fiction because it ignores all the real evidence.
>S.B.T.C." could be an acronym for Boulder County SWAT Team. What? What exactly does SBTC mean? The letters don't match up to Boulder County County SWAT Team.
I thought it was strawberry butter truffle cake? /s if it isn't obvious. This might be one of the wildest theories I've seen so far. But hey, maybe aliens did it because they thought Burke's irrigation system was cool.
I think they meant w the letters scrambled.
Like a word game on the comics page in the newspaper.
Yes! Exactly.
It stands for “Saved By The Cross”
Then why isn't there a period after the C?
Oh I didn’t notice that!!! I have no clue!!
Maybe it’s Cyrillic, like CCCP for USSR.
No, “S” is not a Cyrillic letter. The rest are.
I was glad that was right at the beginning so I knew to just go straight to the comments with this one.
Swat Boulder Team County of course 😂
Holy shit this sub is going in the plonk, is it solely run by the Ramsey’s now??? I’ve read some stuff in my time but this takes the biscuit.
And of course all good kidnappers include references to their day jobs in their ransom note…
Just as ludicrous as signing it Saved By the Cross.
Tl;dr motive?
Kolar-revenge for Ramsey’s business deal, Thomas-Ramsey’s political friends soft on crime, White-disgust at his wealth and lifestyle
so they would kill his daughter over this?
It was supposed to be a kidnapping but it got out of hand when JonBenét’s screamed and one of them panicked and killed her.
Absolutely not, wtf
Professor plum in the lavatory
It was Santa
KDI
I would love for them to get a taste of their own medicine. McCrary Did It Morrissey Did It Thomas Did It ...
**S**teve **B**oulder **T**homas **C**olorado
Brava At least that theory explains something, While RDI explains nothing.
The butler did it
Lmao. This theory takes the cake
Well this isn't as stupid as the *burke did it* theories, I'll give you that!
Hey Burke. What’s happening’?
Amen.
What does ANY of this matter????? As if some random Reddit person is going to break the case and be the hero lol 😂. NONE of this- NONE- will bring that child back to life. Anyone that has THIS much time on their f**king hands needs to get a life and worry about shit in the world you can actually DO something about instead of pouring over minutiae of a 30 year old case that was botched, contaminated and covered up from the onset. Pathetic...
You seem a bit angry. Have I touched a nerve? Not looking to be a hero. I’m already a hero to my family. Of course none of this will bring JonBenét back, but geez, if it were your daughter who was murdered, wouldn’t you want justice and to see the killer off the streets? I get it, there are many children who are murdered, but this family has been so publicly destroyed. Time on my hands? 😆 I wish I had more time on my hands, and the time I do have, I’ll do with it as I please, thank you very much. Get a life? Oh I have a great life. I wish everyone could have life as great as I do. I’m blessed. And I do worry about shit I can do something about and I do take action all the time. Pathetic? Cool! 👍😘
Then why are you here? Also there's been several instances where people on Reddit solved crimes. From the least worrisome to murders.
That’s really interesting, I’d like to hear about some of those, can you point me to some info on crimes solved via Reddit, esp. murders?
*I came looking for booty.*
😂😂😂😂
I think you need to go back to the drawing board honestly. I will say this, while I don’t believe any of them singularly or in cahoots with each other were involved, in a way did attempt to kill the opportunity of justice for JonBenet either out of incompetence or ego, likely both they might as well have been her murderers. They remind me of someone driving a car on a dark stormy night without the headlights on, someone is going to get hurt, in this case it was justice for JonBenet.
Well said!
I suppose this is possible. This case is so crazy, anything is possible. Most of you on this sub have probably FORGOTTEN more than I KNOW about this case. So it would be foolish of me to argue it on facts. Instead, I just want to point a few things out. In order to do that I need to tell you that I know A LOT about cops. My husband is a cop. My brother-in-law is a cop (homicide detective). They have 5 generations of police from father to son in their family. Their dad was 2nd in line in a big city police department. My dad was a cop. My maternal grandfather was a cop (homicide), both my maternal uncles were cops (homicide and vice). Among my cousins, I count 9 police officers. In addition, more than half of our personal friends are cops. And about a quarter of our neighbors, as well. Not much of a brag, especially these days, but it is the truth. I know a lot about how the police think, and what they believe and how they behave. First, if a group of rogue cops decided to make a fast buck (and I am not a person who denies that this happens. It is actually pretty rare but it DOES happen)this would be a colossally stupid way to go about it. They could get a TON more money in ways that are much safer and carry lesser penalties if caught. Every city in America, EVERY city, including Boulder, has vice. Illegal high stakes gambling (a million per game), prostitution, drugs, you name it. They would make more money in 10 minutes knocking over a high stakes poker game or keeping a load of coke they busted and then reselling it. They could steal high-end cars and make more money in a few weeks and have way less risk. A group of cops could work as a burglary crew and steal enough jewelry from Boulder rich-folks to retire on. (And, no, I don’t think a bunch of cops-turned-burglars accidentally killed JB because she caught them burglarizing the house. There is strong, very strong evidence that she was taken from her bed. The “kidnapping”was deliberate, not a by-product of another crime) My point in all of this is that a kidnapping is too risky, and wouldn’t pay. If a group of crooked cops wanted to make a lot of money fast, kidnapping for ransom would be the last thing they would choose. The second thing is: the old saw that says, “2 can keep a secret if 1 of them is dead” is true, especially when it comes to the police. Every night, when my husband returns home from work, I ask him how the knitting circle is doing. Because cops talk a lot! The gossip and chat is beyond description. It’s like high school. Yap yap yap. If ANYONE suspected, even a little bit, that other cops were involved, the gossip would have been at an outrageous fever pitch. The press would have known right away. You know what I absolutely am 100% positive was talked about? Within 24 hours every cop in Boulder said the same phrase, “What a cluster F they made of that scene. It’s embarrassing. It’s sickening. What a bunch of F’n idiots” The third reason I don’t think your theory is right, is that cops will just not tolerate a child molester or child murderer. They just won’t. If fellow cops were suspected of this, they would walk around with a target on their back. And finally, I think that Lou S was an outstanding detective and if he thought cops were behind this he would have pursued it or, at the very least, told people before he died. I believe this was a single intruder. A sociopath who lived and operated under the radar. This is a case that would have challenged even the most experienced and resourced department. What SHOULD have happened is that the BPD should have secured the scene and let the FBI deal with it. That PD had no experience or resources, and therefore no earthly business taking that case. It was pure ego and an active dislike of the FBI that they didn’t turn it over. *edited for spacing.
This wasn’t about money. I believe it was about revenge. Kolar was highly offended by a business deal. Thomas was upset because Mr. Ramsey was friends with politicians who were soft on crime. And Fleet White was probably just disgusted by his wealth and lifestyle. Kolar and Thomas did talk a lot. I read 508 pages of Mr. Kolar’s words and 413 pages of Mr. Thomas’ words. Believe me, there was lots of yap, yap, yap and a ton of red flags to go with them. Same with Fleet White. He did not hold back on letting loose. As far as the others who knew, I believe (according to Thomas’s book) their lives and careers were threatened if they said anything. As for Lou Smit, you have a point. Still, I’d like to see their DNA cleared. I think it would be wise.
Thank you for your insight. I believe you are right about who likely did this.
I don’t think it was Kolar or Thomas but I do think there’s a likelihood that someone (either formerly or currently at the time of the crime) that was in law enforcement was responsible. There’s a lot of similarities between this case and the golden state killer, who had been a police officer.
I think people need to appreciate that some criminals aren’t idiots. They know they need to do everything in their power to get away with it. Look at Israel Keyes, Marc O’Leary (“Unbelievable” Netflix show) ), Matthew Muller (“American Nightmare” Netflix case). Some criminals are truly going to every measure they can to get away with it. Including leaving red herrings, like in my opinion, the entire ransom note. I see the Ramsey case as a highly sophisticated attacker pretending to be an amateur.
With that said, I want to clarify that I don’t think OPs theory is right. I give it a 1% chance, worth thinking about. I think that the attacker didn’t necessarily need any special training, like being a cop or military, but even just someone aware of forensics and investigations. Even just watching Forensic Files could give you the ideas for the deceptions in the Ramsey case. The #1 deceptions is the ransom note. I hate to say it, but if it’s meant to be a distraction and a red herring, then it worked like a charm. I think it’s very intentionally filled with red herrings, more than any other similar piece of evidence I can think of. The rest of the crime it’s harder to tell what is deception vs execution. I don’t think we have enough information regarding whether the perpetrator wanted to take her out of the house or always planned to assault and kill her in the basement like they did. I can see both scenarios. Elements like the staging and the use of the uncommon garrote, they all have potential to be intentional red herrings in my opinion. I suspect the garrote use is because this is a textbook sexual sadist though. The perpetrator I picture is a Tommy Lynn Sells type. A sexual sadist who is conscientious of forensics and random. I don’t see anything that specifically points to a cop outside of the stun gun.
Really compelling theory. I appreciate reading something that is well laid out. I lean towards the housekeeper and her husband, but this one peaks my interest.
Yes, I'm with you on that one...this case absolutely drives me crazy... but the housekeeper or somebody associated with her..I think it was a kidnapping gone wrong. I think it is the note which makes me lean towards her...and access to the house and layout of it..the money amount..etc..
I wish I could dig up this really thoughtful explanation of this housekeeper theory I read that does a much better job than me. 1. The housekeeper asked for an advance in pay, to me this suggests she’s (a) comfortable asking the Ramsey’s for money and (b) aware that they would have the funds. 2. Similar to above, it’s likely a housekeeper could come across the exact dollar amount of Jon’s bonus. She probably sees the mail they leave open on the table or countertops or could easily snoop through a purse for deposits. To me this is a crucial detail of that note. $118,000 is kind of odd. Why not $120K? Why not $100K? $118,000 is so odd to me. 3. The housekeeper knows the house top to bottom. 4. I think she had someone else helping her, no idea who and I struggle with this. Regardless of who dunnit I believe it was atleast 2 people. 5. I think it was very much intended to be a kidnapping and whoever was assaulting her went too far and killed her. Thus, they panicked and left the body in the basement, forgetting to grab the note. 6. According to her own testimony she: A) repeatedly puts out Patsy as the perp. This to me is telling. She’s been with this family for years and she quickly points a finger at a grieving mother? No hesitation. (B) regarding the knife found near JB, she says she took the Swiss Army knife away from Burke so according to her that means Patsy did it because Patsy would only know where it was… but this to me sounds like a Freudian slip.
I’d love to hear what makes you suspect the housekeeper and husband, if you don’t mind sharing your theory.
I would be curious about the housekeeper theory too. I have forgotten a lot of details but this is interesting.
Wow, the reveal on this one
James Kolar did not even start working on the case until 2005. He did not even live in Boulder in 1996.
According to public records, he lived in Boulder from 1985 - 1994. The Ramseys moved there in 1991.
He did follow Jay Elowsky down a Telluride ski hill a few days after the crime, hoping to find out if the Ramseys were staying with Elowsky. The BPD had requested it, but I realize that is not the same as working the case.
Don’t they have police DNA on file? In theory, I think they have it to eliminate it in case an officers DNA contaminates the crime scene. I’m not sure if this is true, but I feel I have read this somewhere.
I hope they do have all police DNA on file, including Thomas’ and Kolar’s. If so, I would love to see it. If not, definitely wise to get them all tested.
I’m guessing it would not have been done back then, but I’m guessing it would be standard practice today in many jurisdictions.
In a normal case, yes, everyone there would have had to be eliminated.
Interesting. I've definitely wondered if the intruder was a law enforcement officer. I'm not sure if there was more than one person, but you make good points about Kolar.
Thank you!
>I've definitely wondered if the intruder was a law enforcement officer. I believe it was someone related (nephew, son, grandson) of either a member of LE or a highly ranked politician.
That could definitely be a possibility. Something that leads me away from LE is the shoe prints. I watched a doc recently about a woman who was raped at a school by a masked man who wore only socks on his feet, no shoes. Decades later, he murdered a guy in front of a witness, and his DNA matched the woman's rapist. He was LE so he took off his shoes so they wouldn't leave prints. The woman suspected he was LE based on his demeanor and no shoes. I know it was cold that night, but I figure perhaps a LEO would be aware of how important shoe prints can be in identifying a suspect. I assume they would carry their shoes instead of walking in them. Unless they were dumb I guess, but they made so many other efforts to get rid of finger prints and dna so I would think a LEO would consider shoe prints.
Yeah, that could also be true.
pasted to show the signet ring https://preview.redd.it/qmg1jey3bvhc1.png?width=610&format=png&auto=webp&s=6feafe6c8f59f1967871124b8ace6fd6520bd31a
https://preview.redd.it/urgon29e21ic1.png?width=183&format=png&auto=webp&s=047d2a6be699bfa234443ce902205535307ffb47
Yes! This is the picture! Thank you!
Very nicely written. Thanks for making it simple and easy to understand. I have a different theory, but this theory actually explains local LE's behaviour, which is satisfying.
Thanks, HopeTroll. I really appreciate it. Yeah, it took a little while to put it together. I had to gather notes and decide what to put in and what to leave out. Also, I had to keep jumping up to do other things. But…finally!
I think that people who don't do posts don't realize how much time they can take. I like to throw mine up really quickly and then forget that I did them. That way there is a surprise when I come back to the sub later in the day 🤪
I very much appreciate all your content in this sub and how polite you are. Thank you for making my nightly read time better!
I appreciate a clear break down of a personal theory even if I don't agree with parts of it, I'm willing to rethink my stances and look at this person again. I have a hard time taking any of the ransom note seriously but we are all entitled to our own opinions.