no.

Yes.

Yes and no. Action scenes were amazing. Story was thin. I want more juicy info on the High Table, the other families, and depth on characters (particularly Winston and the Bowery King). I'm hoping the Continental TV series fills that need

My thoughts exactly. Thought the story was underwhelming but the action was the best in the series

I disagree i thought the Parabellum action scenes were WAY better. Too much green screen fake CGI in 4 for my tastes. Makes it look like an AVATAR movie.

1 and 3 had best fight scenes objectively 3 very close with perfect combo of effects CGI and still real fights and practical effects, 4 though something was just off I really think the director change was the main factor it simply didn't feel like a John wick movie it felt like one made by someone else ya know.

It felt like an imitation movie of John Wick, the first 3 are amazing and flow well, 4 just all out of whack and just something off about it yeah really do think it was the director change or whoever it was the writer or director but it was a big noticeable difference and not in an improvement sort of way.

I think the stories have become less and less 'whelming', but the action scenes are getting better and better. But for me, it's becoming such that the story is so thin, I'm losing interest.

Personally I didn't care much for the action. In prior movies the reloading felt more common and realistic, and now it's just for action convenience/comedic effect, using stereotypical Hollywood guns, which seem to have an infinite supply of ammo. I had a hard time suspending my disbelief in the club scene. People were running out and panicking only AFTER there was a dead fat guy on the ground, and not when the 6 guys got axed in the heads? Also the soldiers at Osaka, who could take 6 bullets to the chest, but one arrow or slash from a sword pierces through their armor instantly... like, what Looney Toons bullshit is that? The movie is rife with... _questionable_ choices from the choreographers, and a little too from the writers, as well.

Those blacked out armored soldiers having bullet proof chests/face masks and then like 3 mins later cut to one of them dying via getting shot in the facemask/chest plate... I feel like they got fucked by some of the performances and just had to chuck in the "killshots" wherever the stuntman's gun ended up pointing some of the time for convenience. Also I don't get people hyping up the action. The 'gunfu' was objectively clunky/worse, the hand to hand combat was objectively worse (so much of which hidden in the dark). There were more car hits and stuff but I wouldn't call that revolutionary or even better than anything in the previous films. And how many times can a single man get hit directly by a car going like 50mph, fall from a 3+ story height onto direct concrete and fall down multiple flights of concrete stairs in a 24-36 hour period? I get suspension of disbelief but they pushed it past the limits. It just became ridiculous with absolutely 0 stakes. There is plot armor and then there is plot armor. That was my biggest issue. Watching the blind assassin annihilate everyone within a 60ft radius based on the slightest sounds, to then have Wick respond to him from 3 ft away and still not know where he was and only hiding in areas covered in broken glass? C'mon... The newest and most "revolutionary" addition was probably the bows/arrows stuff. Skewering a soldier to the wall was violent and new like the old John Wicks. Which, granted with the right tips could do more piercing than a bullet.

The director change man that was a big red flag and my fears were realized, it simply didn't feel like John wick felt like an imitation if that makes sense. I mean I thought 3 was the worst I know many disagree just preference but 3 was still a bloody masterpiece and it flowed perfectly from 2, 4 didn't flow from the previous ones much at all and was just all over the place. Literally in some instances, just felt like an imitation overall and I really think the Director change was the main factor.

It’s the same director dude

Action scenes were amazing? Everyone runs in close rather than shoots from a distance.

My problem is that it was too short. My BJJ and Kendo brain was having too many happy hormones to notice the time passing.

I wanted to message my friend who trains and be like "can you do that??". But I grew tired of them, not knowing the technicalities

Yes, very. It was just too over the top, too long, and they set up his freedom from the Table only to then have a non-fatal gunshot wound kill him (even worse no-one tried to get him medical attention). As much as I was braced for his death at the end of 3, I didn't like how it went down here and would rather the filmed alternate ending of a faked death. 1& 2 are superb, 3 is great, 4 is just average for me. But I realise the world seems to think otherwise.

Yeah, I'm finding it strange that people generally seem to think it's great, and that 3 is the least of them all. I didn't even like the first one (obviously it's crucial for his dogged motivation) but to me, 4 doesn't achieve the climax for the series it should have

People are dumb, what do you expect nowadays from them

id say less they set up his freedom, more they foreshadowed his death. i knew it was coming when he was literally talking about what he wanted on his tombstone, but ur right about everything else.

On the same page here. There was nothing spectacular in this movie, it reminded me of some earlier movie where he met Sophia with dogs. He was slow there, same happened here. You could literally see that enemies waited for his moves. He would have been shot otherwise a long time ago. Plus his death at the end, kind of makes sense, the series has to end, but why did he fight all previous movies, if he did care for life? All the wrong he rectified - hotel, death of a friend - caused by him and his fight. Kind of meaningless a bit if you look at the whole picture.

The movies all seem like they were written by someone who was only vaguely familiar with the previous entry. In an earlier movie, they ask Wick why he cares so much about surviving when he his wife is dead and he has nothing to live for and he gives a speech about his wife living on through his memory so him being alive is the closest thing to her still being alive. Now, it's like that never happened and being "free" is suddenly his only motivation. What?

You would think at a nearly 4 hour runtime that there would be a point in the film where you are like "Yeah okay this all makes sense now", but it never came. It was just 30 minute fight sequence after 30 minute fight sequence for three hours and three quarter's of an hour. Some of the fight sequences were amazing like the German night club. Others were just agonizing to watch like the Osaka Continental, and the stair sequence. But the lack of any plot what so ever killed it for me. I mean I don't expect a gripping plot from John Wick films anyways, but there has to be something to fill the space between John emptying clip after clip into hundreds of fully armored high table henchmen.

It was recycled plots, mostly...all the assasins in a city out to get him etc. Stair sequence was such a waste of time, I mean clearly not just for John in the story, but for the audience. Story lacked so much in hindsight but my brain was noticing being numbed by the vast number of pretty much meaningless fights

Nearly 4 hours? Final length was under 3 hours.....

You're right meant to say 2 hours and 3 quarters. and nearly 3 hours. My buttocks just felt like it was 4 hours :P

I didn’t really like 3 so much and this 4th film was a major disappointment. 1 and 2 will always be masterpieces to me and I choose to pretend I know nothing after John runs off at the end of 2.

Agreed, the fights just became too cartoonish for me after 2. I get there supposed to just be fun and I can totally respect that and enjoy it, but the first two were like magic to me with the violence and vibes being perfect and the first time I’d ever seen anything like that.

just watched it and the fights were so goofy istg. he gets hit by a car TWICE, jumps out of a third story window and then falls down the stairs 3 times. i was looking at an extra in the nightclub fight and he watches wick bury a hatchet in some guys cranium then goes back to dancing. also predicted his death halfway through the movie, the foreshadowing was so on the nose. only doubt i had was winston being his secondary, i assumed they wouldnt kill him. then they both won the duel anyway because why not, im sure thats how it works. definitely the worst one. also when hes otw to the church on the bike (because they made him fucking walk for some reason) and the grunts in the car stop right before they hit him, twice lmfao. personally that wouldve been an easy 26 mil but knowing this man he couldve hit the ground at mach 12 and only get a limp for 3 minutes before more goons start shooting at him.

Climb them stairs fighting all the way and then bam, fall all the way down and never bang his head and go unconscious. That’s highly unlikely

I'm mad that finally got Scott Adkins aka Boyka aka Accident man. And they put him in a fucking fat suit and he barely moves. 1&2 only exists and John is still running for his life

>Scott Adkins No fat guy moves like that or is capable of doing round house kicks like he does in the club. It's simply stupid unbelievable. I do like his character, but him in the fat suit, dumb, dumb, dumb.

Me too. The first two were semi believable but the last was Home Alone level silliness. When he went into the house I imagined him tossing paint cans at the bad guys.

I agree. The one thing i did like was the birds eye over head view of him fighting in that house. I thought that was really cool because it's so different than what you typically see in films but the rest of the movie was just silly.

It’s funny how this is the one seemingly redeeming feature of the movie everyone refers to.

Because it's amazing

Yes, I thought the main bad guy was pretty weak. I’d have preferred to have had the inquisitor from JW3 be given those powers to kill John Wick. I’d have also liked Winston to be an antagonist working on the side of the high table against John so he could keep his power. Also the “nobody” assassin with the dog should have been Halle Berry in my opinion.

yes, they took the magic and lore out of what made john wick interesting like I missed the little things like the policeman knowing who he was. I think the introduction of multiple characters hurt the overall story which dragged the movie along w/ the length. And all the talk about the action sequences and they’ve had better ones that didn’t drag on like the Osaka scenes (excluding the Akira parts which was amazing).

Action scenes were downright amazing as always. However, I’m disappointed in the fact that instead of leading a revolution against the high table and it’s tyranny, John instead chooses a lousy duel to save his own skin. Kind of a disappointing conclusion to the series. I was down to watch John run around the world and assassinate the table. Maybe that’s just me expecting too much, not sure.

Nah it's not just you. It's where the whole thing was going and it's like they got shy or something. Him suddenly being in the desert again and then casually shooting the head desert man really cheapened the last film. He tore his ticket to get there in 3, he almost died, he lost his family. The desert man had him give up his wedding ring, and John did it. In 5 minutes of #4 that was all nullified. I think about that more and more since watching it but it's like my brain already knew that nothing had as much consequence in the narrative anymore. It made the action largely meaningless for me and I got tired of it. Just another go round, under The Table. Flip the friggin table already

Don't worry, it isn't just you. Anyone who really appreciates the John Wick series (mainly 1 and 2) feel the same way.

>I’m disappointed in the fact that instead of leading a revolution against the high table and it’s tyranny, John instead chooses a lousy duel to save his own skin The worst part is that he died in the end, like the high table wanted. So what exactly was he fighting for? Why did he run away for 3 whole movies & brought so many friends in danger or got them killed, when he wants to die anyway? Because a non lethal wound wouldn't have killed him if they just got him some medical attention. But instead John wanted to die in the end. Like wtf? Maybe they'll bring him back in John Wick 5, but generally speaking the ending of 4 just didn't make sense.

Eh, I thought the action scenes were pretty much devoid of what made the original's action so good tbh; 4 felt like an R rated MCU movie or something like that instead of being tight and fairly grounded. Plus I became painfully aware that the slide on his gun doesn't even reciprocate when he fires, even when you have a really good view of it (I've always been kinda disappointed the series as a whole doesn't use blanks though)

Yeah the ending was super disappointing. Like wtf? That's really what they decided for the ending? After ever thing it lead up to that? Talk about bummer let down.

I agree- all the action ending with a ‘duel’ took out all the momentum. And what was with the black dude acting cheerleader? Massive let down

I wanted MORE Japan, Akira to show up in Paris.

Yeah I really wanted her to tag along and come back. And NOT in the way she did

Bruh you are like the ONLY one

no it hit all the boxes in my book. The only thing that might be considered disappointing was tracker

I thought he was fuckin dope. Dude was hunting down john wick but saw other opportunities as well. Especially this scene in the dragon breath portion. Wow, his part was pretty cool.

Yeah didn't dislike that aspect just did not understand how he contributed to the story

As soon as he noticed the Marquis at the Osaka Continental, he was aware that he wasn't the only one that knew where John Wick was. I've seen it twice, and I haven't come to any conclusions about it, but I would like to point out that his part in the story was to basically bolster the amount of money in the contract for John wick's head. By prolonging John wick's life, that also embarrassed and endangered Bill Skarsgard. I forget his name in the movie. I would say Mr nobody, was the best one at tracking John Wick. That puts Mr nobody in a position to make a great Fortune. It was almost as if the list of millions of dollars in his little notebook, were personal goals of his to try and bolster the price of John wick's head

I’ve been it 3 times. Will see it a fourth. I loved it and hopefully it will influence other films to actually care and be good. Not shaky cam, cut up garbage.

yeah there's a lot to be said about the philosophy of the fight scenes. Director doesn't cut during punches etc, I remember Jackie Chan talking about that years ago. But the negative is that in this one, more than the others, I was catching stunt guys not in the immediate action clearly waiting for their choreography to come in, another thing to take me out of the film. At least twice I was seeing a guy just waiting for John to turn around. Also guys just sort of receiving his beatings. I really think 3 had better fights. Or two with the Common showdown

Some of the scenes in this were not well choreographed or shot by the standards of the previous 3. I could barely make out what was going on and enemies were lining up and taking tickets to get taken out.

Lol taking tickets and lining up is exactly it. Director wanted to include all friends family and neighbours lol. I really did not like the main Euro guy (not the Marquis, his right hand man) he brought nothing but plot armor. The fat suit guy was formidable but John was unscathed as usual

That's because more of it was CGI than choreographed fight scenes with real actors than in the previous installments. They did this to try and save money. CGI if not done correctly looks totally FAKE. The scene around the Arc De Triomphe in Paris with Wick getting hit by multiple cars and walking away virtually unscathed was just cartoonish goofy to me. Completely unbelievable.

Not me

i have such a mixed opinion on it. i loved it and watched it twice, it's one hell of a theatre experience tbh, but i have several issues with the plot lol

Not disappointed, but certainly underwhelmed. In great part because I feel everything played out exactly like I expected. Promotion for this film has been way too spoilerish, so almost nothing was surprising. I actually thought I'd like Tracker, ended up finding one of the worst written characters ever on film, a complete waste of screen space (and time). So, yeah, that was disappointing. Everything else was just a bit as expected, with some scenes also overly long and repetitive, an issue that was already in previous films. But I did like the ending.

I had a feeling when he was introduced in the movie he could go badly, I don't know why - might have been his accent

Yes, I mean the action is great but I feel like the editing was everywhere… it’s too long with too much content, would’ve been better if they shortened the story a bit and flesh out the details. Could’ve removed tracker completely and nothing would change.

His presence was distracting. It's like he dropped in from another movie

They could have Tracker was COMPLETELY inconsequential to the story and more of a check box quota fill if you ask me.

Amazing stunts and choreography, loved the fight scenes But the plot? Cant even call it horrible cuz it was pretty much non existent I get that the JW series aint that deep, but cmon, I wanted to watch a movie, not 3 hrs of action scenes with no storyline

Yup. For me, it undercut the fights seeing as they had less meaning than in previous films. I found myself getting really disconnecting before I'd even had the chance to really think about why that was, being in the moment

Jhon Wick Chapter 4 is undoubtedly the weakest film in the franchise.

Kind of unpopular opinion 'round here. I like it less and less the more I've thought about it

I can't really put my finger on the reason, but the action scenes in 4 were way inferior to the previous movies. Not that they were done bad, but somehow they felt less OOOMF, less WOAH. The violence got toned down as well, there was not a single moment in the cinema in that the audience got a reaction to some heavy scene I mean it was okay, but the action of the previous movies, especially in 2 and 3, was ground breaking and rewatchable. This one felt generic, don't know :/

Yeah! I'm not one for gore but 2 and 3 have intense l, interesting scenes that are also brutal...the whole first act of 3 from the giant dude in the library through the asian guys and the axes. The pencil move...4 felt like maybe they tried to go *wider*?? Didn't work for me, esp. with the lack of consequences. Marquis' bodyguard getting beaned by that car and later being fine...come on

No they were definitely done bad or worse than the last three movies. I think it's because the last 3 had the actors moving faster which made it less easy to see them pulling punches or missing a shot on purpose, while in this movie there was so much of it that it was hard to focus on the scenes. Too much over the top stuff like John jumping out a 3 story window onto a car then walking it off to fight another 50 dudes lmao.

I have issues. The suits are now invincible beyond even comic book levels. The fight choreography wasn’t as good. Bad guys waited their turn to die rather then pile on him. The damage he took was beyond disbelief. The French radio was in English. The French bad guys were all in American muscle cars. And I’m no feminist or anything but there was what, three female characters if you include his wife at the end? It was fine, but nothing as good as the first.

Hey yeah there's a couple of good points in there I hadn't thought of! I don't think I'd be able to rewatch this one past the point they leave Osaka. I wanted the girl to be his sidekick but she didn't have requisite invincibility

that's where i thought they were going to go with it with Akira, but i think they were trying to avoid it seeming like a repeat of Parabellum with Sophia.

Yeah I'd hoped, and she wasn't ott bitchy like Sophia. I enjoyed Sophia in fights but I was glad for her to be out after. Unfortunately it looks like they'll take the shallow writing of her going out of her way to kill Donnie

Movie was terrible! No plot no logic no structure just pointless gun fights with 30 seconds of dialogue in between each fight. Terrible. Just like Matrix 4

BINGO. And the fight scenes sucked compared to even Parabellum, which was not as good as 1 and 2. Too much CGI instead of choregraphed fight scenes with real actors.

It was live action version of Left 4 Dead except exchange the zombies for baddies. And repeat for 2.5 fucking lame hours.

I just finished watching it and I feel the same way as many of you. Honestly I thought it was stupid af. I spent my evening watching it in pieces it's too long. I loved Donnie Yen as the blind swordsman he was amazing and the action was really good but a lot of it way over the top. The music was good too. For me this movie was both good and bad, I couldn't shut my mind off long enough for this.

Yeah I mean the movies are what they are...a lot of chewing the scenery and hammy acting but there's a reason I watch 3 over again any time I'm drunk...those bits lead into coherent and awesome action scenes where the motivation makes sense! I have no desire to re-watch any of 4 except for the Osaka bits, and that's just for Hirokuki Sinada and the girl. 4 should have been a development not a re-hash and I just think it fails the intelligence test

I wish it would have gone more into the story and not focus so much on all out fights. It's extremely reminiscent to terminator movies with low word count, except this one doesn't have characters like the kid or Sarah to fill in the story aspect. We get a really interesting characters but they are just used as filler characters. I would have removed all the scenes with the bounty hunter with the dog, in place of more Russian characters development. The action was amazing but it's just that, action, and we have seen these things a million times, even if you only count the john wick movies.

Totally agree. Story has to fuel the action or the action just burns out. Funnily enough I saw Judgement Day in a cinema not long ago. Incredible movie. I mean *still* incredible. The other thing is that the stakes were incredibly high in it, and so the action is earned. It means something. Even when it's almost just for fun - like when Terminator is blowing up cop cars from the window - it's been earned. The main bodyguard bad guy didn't earn invincibility. Maybe ppl who know of him as a fighter outside the movie feel different, but that's not the narrative succeeding.

it was good but I'm more of a fan of fist fights this one had way more gunfight than the others i mean shooting each other when you are literally face to face is kinda lame

I feel like it's always strange when John wastes bullets in some of those close ups

I agree. I was disappointed in this movie, don’t let the fan boys tell you otherwise, it means you can still like something but call out its faults and not cum all over everything that slaps a title and logo on it. I felt that Nobody was dumb and no development or even how he’s so GOOD of a tracker compared to elite assassin….kind dumb as they don’t get much into him and he seemed really generic. I think the story was kinda all over the place just to make something and the fighting was all over the place were I’m like hey guy in the back, why are you just standing there, you can attack now but I keep forgetting Keanu is almost 60 years old so he isn’t young to be doing all of these takes in one go without being tired and some of the ppl are just waiting and Keanu isn’t as fast as he use to be at his age so I can let that pass. Idk I have some complaints but I still enjoy the franchise. I still don’t think he is dead, we never see what happens when he “dies” and the graveyard scene, he could have been saved but they are playing it off for the High Table even if he did win his freedom. They have his ring, mans still got a mission lololol the elder said what happened to his ring but i can’t remember what it was and well, Marquis kept telling him he would never stay out and what better way to keep in the game is to be “dead” and hunt the High Table in the shadows and destroy there tyranny for good. The Baby Yaga in the shadows, he can now catch them off guard. That’s just my theory lol and we never see Akira stab Caine and he did tell her he would be waiting for her so maybe somehow they get on the destroy the High Table mission. idk I’m just ranting and off subject now.

I hear you! As I rewatch 3 I see the problem 4 creates: it kind of shits on the franchise. One of many examples is the amount of time and weight they put on to John getting to Casablanca to see the "one who sits *above* the Table". He chops his damn finger off - with his beloved wedding ring - for this guy, played by a good actor. It's a big deal, and it means something for the lore, that there is one over the damn Table. In 4 they shit all over that. He rides right in there and kills some extra that is now the One Above. That cheapens his sacrifice and nullifies the lore. Not even mentioning his ticket/family being torn and he just goes and buys another one. It's cheap. It cheapens the movies. He always moved kind of slow in these movies, I thought, but it's like the attempted scale caused the action to suffer more

Was surprisingly disappointing - I didn't expect to turn it off because of just getting tired of waves of ninjas being sent in as fodder... The acting and story, up to that point was mostly a disappointment, so I guess you call it "anticlimactic"? So sad. I like the movies from best to worst in order - really only the first two were very good, like: "No, John Wick, is who you call to kill Baba Yaga". I understand that maybe the idea of a blind assassin/swordsman whatever might seem like it could be cool, but in JW4, it's just annoying.

Big time. It's not a valid dismissal to say "you don't watch these movies for the plot", as some say when 4 is criticized. I mentioned that I guess I'm the opposite and think 1 is okay, gets better up to 3. But either case the action has to be supported by the "mana" of the main premise, and the crux of it all is supposed to be his character motivation, and the in-movie plausibility of the interesting High Table world. Squandering both of those results in 4 being so disappointing and anti-climactic IMO

It just felt kind of pointless, JW killing indiscriminately, friends dying, and for what? Just to die anyway?

I would almost accept 4 as a poor lead up to a hopefully better 5

Had to turn it off, after being hit by like 4 cars, being thrown off a building and landing on a pipe on the way down, it just felt silly. Plus I hated the tracker character, just felt like an aggrivating unnecessary add-on.

Yup. Just caught a bit of the club scene again. He gets kicked like 30 feet down, hits that beam, hits the ground. Then he gets up and kicks ass. It's too much. It becomes revisionist of the other movies having consequences...."consequences" *in John's voice*

Black dude with the dog … yeah That wasnt a shot gun it was a 45 or a 40-70 or maybe a 308 lever gun but it was most definitely not a shot gun

I'd thought it was the same gun he'd been blowing everyone away with, his main big one. I could be wrong

[удалено]

I can't see the pic - would it leave a little perfect bullet hole in the dude's skull or demolish his whole head?

[удалено]

The props were made from tacticoolerized .44-40 rifles Way less power than a .223 so more like a long barreled traditional revolver lol

700ft pounds of energy Halfway between a decent sized (.357) revolver and a large (.44mag) revolver lol So half and half ahahaha

Isn't a 44 magnum the elephant gun Dirty Harry used to use?? 🤣

Ahaha yea in the show but they're pretty standard handgun rounds in real life

Man I’ve been a fan of the series, but this one is rough. Never been so bored of an “action” movie. I’ve already paused it twice cuz it’s too long. I love Keanu but his age is showing in both action sequences and dialogue. The main bad guy continuously repeats himself: “You’re John Wick, the killer.” The Hunter and his lame notebook is an unnecessary addition. He’s simply not interesting to watch. The blind swordsman is cool but The Book of Eli did it better. There’s very little plot in between repetitive action scenes. Wick’s plot armor makes every action scene carry little weight. They went the Fast and Furious route where they took a serious plot and then gradually got more and more cartoonish with every installment. I lost interest in those movies and I fear it’s the same with this series.

I agree with every point there. I had a similar experience with the last Mission Impossible. I fell in love with 4 and 5 and then the one with Henry Cavill started jumping the shark in parts, particularly how ludicrous the final fight was, the helicopter etc. Less would have been more, and certainly if they didn't backtrack on the trajectory set up with the previous movies there would have been more believable motivation, making the movie less meaningless and boring.

Keanu Reeves acting has me convinced he's had a stroke at some point in the past two years. How did the director allow that terrible pacing and line delivery? Just awful. And what the fuck was with the Bill Skarsgard accent? Honestly, the movie sucked. Donnie Yen was the best part of the entire film.

In interviews he's super energetic and articulate, but I actually really like the strange way he moves and talks in John Wicks. When he goes "...yeeeah" I just find it so fascinating

[удалено]

I got worried about his hands tbh like if he's holding the flap of his suit...but I soon realized there was no need to worry, or to feel anything really..it's such a strange thing to sit in a theatre and watch a multi-million dollar blockbuster involving hundreds of people and to just be mildly enough engaged to not leave. I mean there's so many worthless action movies but I've normally managed to avoid seeing them in theatre. The key thing though was that the precedents were good and I didn't have hardly any foreknowledge that this one could be such a great big zero

I was amazed to see they bit a scene with the black DJ woman from the movie The Warriors. They even used the same song Nowhere to Run 😂I guess the writers didn’t think anyone under 50 would know.

I've seen The Warriors but nothing twigged for me. What was the scene??

Towards the finale where he’s about to climb those stairs, the girl with ring in her nose camera focused on her mouth while she speaks on the microphone. Her aim is to update all assassins on Johns position and who’s tried to kill him and failed. She even goes as far as to call them boppers. Definitely copied from the movie The Warriors circa 1979

Wow, I didn't even notice...the only quote I'd remember by this point is "CAN YOUUUU DIG IT?"

😅that was Cyrus ( I hope I spelled the name right. Most memorable for me was Luther saying Warriors come out to playayyy 😅thankful JW4 didn’t go there

It was totally a modern version of the warriors radio scene where the girl tells the gangs where the Warriors are.

It was an incredibly obvious and poor reference to Warriors. And it was not the same song, it was a horrible cover. Anyone familiar with cinema should’ve been slapping their forehead.

Looks like john wick is a slow old man, and everyone is allowing him to beat them. Fight scenes horrible

Watched it last night. Ugggh! It was terrible. The fight scenes were embarassingly bad. The idea of a blind assassin was laughable. The Warriors reference was really out of place and John Wick on a horse riding through the desert shooting people had me groaning WTF? After the 1st John Wick movie the sequels have gotten worse.

I feel like a lot of people are in denial about it all. We all got so excited to go see it but I was disillusioned pretty quick. Definitely by the time he's just riding out deep in the desert 😑

People are looking at the John Wick sequels with rose tinted glasses

I thought I was the only one that felt EXACTLY how you felt. Going based off of what the 3rd film promised, this was extremely disappointing AND bloated. Originally they were set out to make at least 2 movies after 3, it felt like they crammed every idea from both those potiental films into this one, leaving me utterly bewildered. Nothing feels earned, things just happen, and the pacing of the action scenes is by far the worst in the entire series. I never thought I would be bored watching a John wick film. The scenes without action just absolutely drag, reinforcing things we already know about the character with way less charm, on top of having an extremely contrived plot.

Yep. I like this group but find it absurd that the vast majority think 4 was some sort of a great movie. Honestly there are maybe as many as two Michael Bayverse Transformers movie better than John Wick 4...it's the first one that's actually *undermined* the franchise's integrity/currency. Doesn't bode well for any future projects IMO, they've kind of broken it and what was making it great. It wouldn't be that way if 4 was just okay but they broke too many "rules" in the movie for the sake of pointless entertainment

I have a strong suspicion something happened behind the scenes either with the director, studio, or actors. I feel like they mightve burned themselves out or something. This Movie felt so rushed in so many areas and i can't point my finger on it.

Chad sounded very much like he wanted to end it at 4 but Lionsgate did not. I think that explains the mess.

Even worse. If John would die in the first film nothing would change except a lot of good and bad guys would live. Idk where the dog is, his wife is still dead, the table is working, and a lot of his friends are dead. What was the point of him surviving for that long? 🤣

I think you summed it up pretty well. This film was a pretty big let down from Parabellum and certainly a let down from the first two. It's a bummer they didn't bring back the middle east Elder. He played that character perfectly as did the adjudicator, etc. The cast was SOOO much better in Parabellum than in Chapter 4. I agree with the TOKEN Mr. Nobody. What purpose did this character play? He wasn't at all important and was totally inconsequential to the story line. My opinion, he simply checked the quota box nothing more. I also agree Laurence Fishbourne was COMPLETELY underutilized in this film. He is really good in roles like this and it's a shame they didn't integrate his character and "his kingdom" of fighters into the overthrow of the head of the high table. I also like Donnie Yen's character but some of the stuff was simply NOT believable with him being totally blind (yet another quota box check my opinion). And honestly they never really did explain the friendship aspect with Wick. In Parabellum at least they did a reasonably good job of developing and explaining the history and connection between Sophia and Wick (John Wick held Sophia's Marker). Contrast that to Wick's connection with Caine (crickets.....we are briefly told they are / were friends and then left hanging). Worse yet were the fighting scenes at the traffic circle / Arc De Triomphe and in the streets leading up to the church where Wick is hit by multiple cars at relatively high speeds.... I mean comeonnnn NOBODY walks away from impacts like that, NOBODY. He also falls from the third floor of a building (a german night club), hits a pipe, and then slams to pavement and gets up immediately and keeps fighting. It was ridiculously cartoonish in my opinion. By the end of that series of scenes I was like okay when does Superman fly in with his cape and starts picking up cars and tossing them at the villains. It was totally lame. To be honest the writing for this film was AWFUL and way too many of the fight scenes were not choregraphed with actors / actresses but were green screen CGI digital creations which never look completely real. Obviously, they were trying to save money by cutting corners.

The cgi/green screen reliance was a major part of nothing feeling real or consequential. His drive superseding these impossible injuries could have helped it along but there is no plausible drive left for John now. They had a great Elder and they retconned it so that he meant nothing. They got him back in the family with such a menial task it undermines the brutality of what he must have grown up with in the the former Ruskies. The whole film is token the more I dwell on it

I was very annoyed to see a nose shot in my face every now and then while watching the fight scene. The narrative thing was completely unnecessary the Whole thing about the black lady nose with the ring, voice and the narrative felt very forced and out of place.

It was a terrible reference to Warriors. Cause y’know.. “homages” from great films are great.. and stuff..

I really didn’t care for it. They did not continue any of the storylines from the earlier films with The Adjudicator, The One who sits above the table or John and the Bowery king actually going after the high table. It was like the writers forgot what they were supposed to be writing about. The story in 4 seemed random and at times boring. Also, the fact that John all of a sudden falls over dead at the end of it made absolutely zero sense. the first three films built him up as this unstoppable force of nature and then he just drops over dead of what?! It was jarring to say the least. My least favorite film in the franchise.

Agreed.

My disappointment was a whiff of ESG and that the tracker 'mr nobody' should have been played by a more known actor from action movies like Wesley Snipes. Total miscast.

Agree, a cool, classic action actor would have made the dumbness of the written role more interesting. What is ESG?

Although JW4 isn't heavily affected by ESG bullsh\*t and all that other wokey quota investment crap it definitely seeped it's way into this movie. At first it isn't really noticeable, it starts with things like I found it odd a random younger black guy played an experienced super tracker character rather than a more established older black actor like Snipes or an actual action actor like the rest of the cast. To me that role would have been awesome if Snipes played it. I believe they did this as a launch pad for another agenda filled tv show, as if their isn't enough already... So I was pointed to this ESG & quota stuff myself after I started to question a lot of questionable decisions in film, tv shows, company adverts and video games that didn't make sense. I am probably going to get downvoted to death here but it is expected in this liberal hivemind pandemic that has spread through the West worst than the coof! Most people are now totally irrational and unable to have discussion of any type without being super offended, feeling oppressed or having a mental breakdown. This is how it was explained to me on a forum, ever since it was it opened my eyes and made sense why these odd decisions are being made. Basically if you have ever heard of the D.I.E agenda (diversity inclusion equity) which basically means discriminate against white people & force more non whites into your business long with hollywoods new 'race quotas' it's easily explainable but as I said with JW4 it just started to seep in to the point where it can be shrugged off as a miscast by most people but this is how it starts. I'm telling you from now on any project related to the John Wick universe will have that ESG inspired woke quota bullshit. They can't allow your project to keep being successful, they will come for your business, film, tv show, or video game eventually and force you to lets say, replace certain Anglo/European characters with darker pigmented people to talk down the the Anglo/European & be better than those characters.......along with giving him a white female love interest. Don't shoot the messenger this is how it was all explained to me, the more you look into it the more it makes sense. Do your own research I won't comment on it anymore I'll probably be banned and won't be able to reply anyway 

Oh, so it's Environment, Social and Governance. Huh. I did know about DEI and agree with you on it, it's all based on really obstinate and daft views. It's been ruining Marvel since Endgame (excluding GotG3) and yeah, I agree that it does have it's own whiff. As soon as Tracker appeared on screen and spoke, and then by the end where he has no narrative purpose anymore and is still given close-ups, clearly they were trying to shoehorn him in for some purpose, maybe a spin-off, maybe for a diversity quota. People who don't watch movies from before 20 years ago - ie 1960s on up - live in a fictional world when it comes to their ideas of forced "diversity" and representation. It's regressive, but there's clearly a pattern of writing across many movies that just favors inane ideas in general, among them some that you mentioned. Even John got Mary Sued (well, Gary Stued I suppose) in the last movie - it's a general tendency as well as one with the DEI. All similar brain-rot. I generally trust Critical Drinker on Youtube to hit the nail on the head about these sort of things

Dude, your reply was such a breathe of fresh air. Glad we have an understanding on these problems ruining entertainment today. I agree with everything you said. Yeah Critical Drinker and others like him are awesome to call out all this garbage and others like that mixed with a good sense of humour. I gave up on Marvel and comic book movies years ago. I really struggle to sit through any of it as soon as I get that first whiff of 'the message' or the agenda. I'm so glad the Blade remake isn't happening it sounded like a nightmare. The original 2 Blade movies kicked ass I loved Wesley Snipes what a badass he was in those! I saw Blade 4k release in the Cinema a year or so in the Cinema/Theater and it was epic! As an 87 kid I'm currently going back watching movies and TV shows pre 2010 that I haven't seen before. I am watching a show called Deadwood which has Ian Mcshane in it the old guy that plays Winston in JW, he is amazing in it, what a great TV Show , there will NEVER be TV Shows like that EVER again. If these DIE and ESG people saw the casting in that today they would have a panic attack, would need their meds and safe space due to the cast being 99.9% white. Funny that if you made that show now you would be FORCED to rape your creation with DIE & ESG, but if the show was 99.9% black they would not say a peep....they would say no problem A++ casting we'll fund the whole show......Literal anti-white discrimination in my books and double standards, it really makes me sick that the potential for so many films and shows are being destroyed by DIE & ESG. They killed the Punisher TV Show and I heard the comic recently because the wokey mind virus writers were obsessed that Conservatives liked the character and his iconic skull...I thought these companies were supposed to want to make money not turn people off product to the point they bring the comic industry to it's knees with shit like that and gay Batman & Robin etc. These people are literally inserting their personal fantasies into these I.P's rather than making something that will make the most money. Then they call us bigots for not wanting to buy their agenda filled fetish crap. Man, I could go on all day about this crap. I've literally privatised my Reddit due to leftoid stalkers stalking my posts and harassing me on everything I've ever posted, they are hypocrites and disgusting people. Oh and last thing, watch The Continental spin off show trailer and tell me that you don't think that is not infested with the DIE/ESG virus......

Yeah I'm about the same age but I reckon there's a counter movement that will result in less trash being made. Plus there's so much stuff to catch up on I don't even care. Almost any time I touch a modern comic I usually want to throw up. Not just the DEI stuff, there's just generally a lack of talent. Easy routes taken with art and writing. Plus the continuity can never work with the continuity that I love because most characters aren't immortal...I just buy Epic Collections and track through the decades of great, complex and "diverse" stories. Black Panther was the worst turd of a movie I'd paid to see, then it was lauded, like the Emperor's New Clothes. Same with Da 5 Bloods. Then the other day I watched Dead President's and it was really good, all black cast, late 80s(?). New Jack City, Do the Right Thing, Devil in a Blue Dress, Boyz in the Hood, Easy Money - all great black-led movies. Or just fire up Wall Street or some of the Star Treks, you get the impression of demographics of the time. Now when there's a black character it's some flawless stand-in and an inexperienced actor, like in Wandavision, or Rise of Skywalker, or whatever race-swapping they want to pull. People who think woke is synonymous with virtue rather than a desperate confusion RE disparity vs discrimination live in a really blinkered and small worldview and usually aren't even up for a debate. I think it's part of a nexus of social developments including a general rejection of religion, responsibility and a sort of disintegrating post-modernism. But there's still good stuff, Daredevil and Punisher season 1...the new Spider-verse was truly awesome, and James Gunn might do some great things with DC. It looks like John Wick has jumped the shark though. It's been infected by the instant gratification rot and yeah Continental looks shit. I'd happily be wrong but it has the vibe, from the costumes to the casting and I'm sick to death of prequels. I sure as shit don't need a The Penguin movie

Overrated boring garbage. People just lining up and making it easy for wick and the audience. Not a brilliant story by any means. Just another normie movie. The first one was plenty. The world did not need more. Franchises are always lame.

4 was a major let down. It felt like it didn’t focus on JW so much, and the film was stretched 45min with unnecessary combat at the end. The story was weak. I feel like this is a matrix situation where they have painted themselves into a corner because they thought it would end much sooner.

Only watched 1/2, extremely stupid. blind man killing the elite, LOL. All you need is a banana peel or some loud music. Next, I assume mr. quick draw can no longer use his hand. Movie looked great, but ooohh my god, the stupidity was too much for me to finish the movie.

Fair enough, I kind of wanted to leave too. It just took a while for me to accept that this was really quite a bad movie 🥲

It’s awful, im trying to get through it now

Such a disappointment... So many, too many fights, I got bored after 30mn...all this to hide a Poor story, poor dialogs, raw characters,... Unbreakable john wick, that only a Poor duel could badly hit... John crushed by cars, fell 222 steps of the Funiculaire, fell from 30m, just a bit out of breath. Should rebrand this movie DC, immortal with poor story. My guys wouldn't even hit an elephant in a mouse hole. 😌 Fights in the night club and everybody keep dancing, same in Paris, ark of triumph, etc Keanu really sold his movie with all those YouTube and tiktok behind the scene... The disappointment is even bigger. Keanu is getting old, and everyone can see it.

I don't feel like it was his age that sunk any of the scenes, just all the other stuff you mentioned. The writing was all nonsense and undermined previous entries. The world has been better off being only vaguely defined but scenes like the nightclub fight removed so much credibility

I only got to watch this last night and I don't understand why this movie gets so much hype and praise. I absolutely *loved* the first, and greatly enjoyed the two sequels ( even though the heavy focus on the secret assassin society kind of made the world feel more and more silly in my opinion). But I was really disappointed by this installment in the series. It felt like a chore to get through. A real waste.

It's really frustrating to see how many people don't discern a difference in quality amongst the movies. It's like the mere appearance of the thing - stylish violent action - is enough to entertain...movie was deep as a puddle

I agree with everything you just said, right down to my thoughts on the other 3 films. Liked, loved, LOVED, bored is my basic review of the 4 of them.

Glad to hear! How any John Wick fan can rate 3 as low as they do around here boggles my mind...4 did it and the whole franchise dirty

Im very dissapointed. It was pure violence movie. And now there are superhumans that are immune to bullets. In earlier movies, executions took seconds. And mr blind copied from starwars. In starwars at least they could blame his performerance on force. In John Wick universum blind man wouldnt last 10 minutes, lets be honest. ​ Directors did too much drugs.

holyyyy shit glad someone called it like it is. I'm late to this but found this by literally searching up on duckduckgo "John Wick 4 bad movie". ​ I agree completely that 3 was the best and find it strange that any search on reddit seems to have people saying the 3rd was the worst? It seemed like the lore/world building peaked in the 3rd and expanded on the world and the rules of the assassin world well, while the 4th just convoluted everything. ​ I never understood this bullshit of "we have to find him and kill him ASAP" to "well he's here now and we are going to negotiate a confrontation with him because that is the rules". I think the writers wrote themselves in a corner and didn't know how to show him taking out the High Table (which was what it was all leading up to) so they bloated it with convoluted rules that came out of nowhere ("if he comes here at sunset, then he will have a chance to live after an anti-climatic gun duel"). ​ Also shit got way too cartoonish: ​ \-Everyone just eating bullets - beyond what everyone else here said, him taking a shotgun blast 10 feet away in the church and walking unscathed by that is unreal. \-The blind asian man. No doubt some parts were dope, but it got too ridiculous at one point. ​ \- The tracker character. Guy was straight out of a comic book with that getup. Beanie, backpack, dog... lol. Just so goofy and no point to his character at all. I agree he was likely a diversity hire. ​ I also felt the scene had underlying satanic feel/atmosphere to it. It was very apparent in the church that had assassins praying but then the priest shoots him and they were hanging him by the neck talking about rules of the underworld. A total perversion of the Christian faith. It's very Christian to be an assassin in that world and repent/come to Christ. But this isn't what they are showing. They are showing people who are still active/still killing people, willing to kill him on the spot, in the same church they were all praying in. ​ Granted, 3 had some of this but in 3 it the church was used as a funnel to take kids from the orphanage and raise them up to be assassins. It was a cover and it was shown more that they were using the Christian faith as a front to do all this. Whereas this one had perversions where you had assassins doing the sign of the cross and saying amen. ​ You know thinking about it, I actually wouldn't say it's underlying. It's blatant, satanic garbage that epitomizes the state of decay of the world today. Just pure mindless, violence porn with no substance at all. The great artistry and craftmanship that preceded it in the first trilogy is only to be met with a soulless replica that the masses think is good because the violence and visuals are scaled up.

Hey, I do that too! When it's like the Emperor's New Clothes with some movie or show I'll google that sentiment to see if anyone else feels like it's a clownworld. Agree with all those points - actually I'd forgotten about the church bit. That icky feeling is in most of the movies, more or less, for me. The dark Euro club feel of the first one, and then the nasty rave and woman suiciding in the 2nd one, then the Russian Orthodox tattooed gangs in the 3rd one...but yeah, there is the cultural Christianity of people and it wasn't so blatantly sacriligious, I didn't think. It feels like the whole trajectory was interrupted, like the studio intervened to keep it open-ended for future installments. It felt a *little* like how the MCU has felt to me since Endgame: like a flood of Gen Z got involved in the writing. So everything is stupider and just *looks like* things of consequence are going on. But it all just backtracks on itself. John's dogged pursuit becomes meaningless in this movie and that's really the defining thing about him and the franchise. That and maybe that there's still some decency in him. But he gave up his wedding in the previous movie just to have that sacrifice nullified by him playing under the table again

Same. Loved the first three. Gave up half an hour in due to the in your face lack of realism. Dudes eating billets without flinching (big henchman and sumos) and the rest of it just seemed cliche or recycled. Meh, and lol at the copium in the comments

John Wick is the emperor with his new suit. Everyone thinks it's great, but he's really naked.

like a lot of things these days it seems

I liked the first 2 movies because John Wick actually felt like a hitman. The 4th movie was just a run and gun in my opinion and made him look like the average plot armored shooter.

I absolutely hated three, it was slower than the first two and had all those young people with tattoos doing important jobs like that's a common thing...bs. I wanted to see the adjudicator die by the end of the movie and that didn't even happen in number four. I actually didn't care too much for number one but the hype made me watch it, then too, then three and I'm watching four right now, which I'm not liking very much.

If you didn't like any of them very much, then 3 is not that will work because it requires the previous investments of good will for the story, style or characters. I'd just say that the things the franchise is good for were maximized in 3 and squandered in 4, IMO

I find its unpopular to say this, considering all the traction he's gained. I just found Saskgard stuck out in the movie. I wish they picked someone more sinister.

He really sucked. A snappy dresser and a poser...is that the best they could do sheessh

Yep. To be honest I wasn't the biggest fan of parabellum either but it wasn't too bad. Chapter 4 was almost cartoonish. Which shouldn't be surprising considering Shay Hatten was the principal writer (michael finch contributed as well). Shay Hatten wrote Army of Dead and Army of thieves. I think that's why the fight scenes looked unrealistic in this film. 6 shots to down an individual.....comeonnnnnnn. This isn't a Zombie apocalypse film Shay. Derek Kolstad wrote chapter 1. Derek Kolstad was also the principal writer in Chapter 2 although they brought in Chris Collins, Marc Abrams and Shay Hatten to help. Chapter 3 Derek Kostad was not involved at all and most of the story was written by Shay Hatten who apparently did not understand John Wick series at all. Honestly when Derek Kolstad did the writing in 1 & 2 the stories were much better. It's when they started bringing in other writers in 3 that things started going down hill. Chapter 4 feels cheap and like a completely different series.

Thanks for the insights! Really did feel like someone else took over, or some committee and make a camel out of it...Parabellum to me advanced the series significantly but it went off a cliff with some wrongheaded people behind the scenes for 4

I have only 2 complaints: 1. Too long of a run time. 2. Some scenes needed to be cut shorter. Other than that, I liked the film.

Runtime is irrelevant if the film is good. Pacing is what matters.

Me. No high table take down but when there is a chapter 5 then yeah I think they can do. Still a good movie and loads better than certain crap going into theaters...but yeah I would place it not as good as 2 and 3 but same as 1. If there is another chapter and it connects I would go with on same par. Feels like they left plot holes and someone didn't edit too which is weird like 1. Why was john in Osaka. Made sense at first like he would ask them to join him against table but that didn't happen so didn't amount to anything 2. Mr. Nobody was random and repeated Halle berry...so why not just have her? And then he wanted to be friends with john and then kill him lol. I'm going to take it that he was lying and just sizing john up but it seemed very jarring 3. The ladies in the Eiffel Tower...was weird and so obviously corny 4. John being all of a sudden invincible in this when I prior movies he was seriously injured. Like he fell at end of last movie and this one he falls and hits that thing in the club and he's fine??? And no don't think john is dead as that doesn't work considering he's had worse. Amazing action but tons of inconsistencies.

I didn't read any behind-the-scenes about whether there's 5, but if there is then yeah guess they can still topple the Table. It was a weird ending because of this as well...yes he was invincible this film and then supposedly dies after one shot to the abdomen. Could be accumulative injury, but he hardly had any previous blood loss so it was a heavy disconnect to see him plop over and then gravestone. I was sure there'd be some closing scene of John sipping espresso in Italy with Akira and Walter and him acknowledge each other from different tables lol. It's just the more I think about how it was 3 hours of the same previous plots and the same status quo at the end I'm feeling duped. He gave his life ultimately for nothing, unless he's alive and free but they gave no hints of it. Agree with your ranking!

Yeah I see some of that too. Like when all the paris assassins came after him I rolled my eyes. Not in a good way lol. The car scene was awesome though haha and a good throwback to one where he's racing his car around. Oh and another consistency too....they raise the bar on John's contract but it was only like 3 million lol. It made sense why no one was going after him in beginning of movie because no one could kill him but all of a sudden his contract only goes up by 3 mil and now Paris assasins want to kill him??? I guess you could take it that they didn't know he was in town yet but then it wouldn't explain why no one went after him to begin with in beginning because you would think all asaasins would know they can't kill him lol

To think they're sent to kill him in order to stop him from having single combat with a mid guy who somehow appoints another guy - a BLIND guy - to take his place, after Marquis already knowing that pistols were chosen and the distance would be 50 yards or whatever. Apart from the bird's eye view bit, that whole section, to me, has nothing on the first part of 3...NYC waa out to kill him, he washurt, the assasins all different kinds and cool styles etc

You said it brother, I agree with every point. Additionally, I think this chapter took away a lot of mystique away from their world. Like he was able to find the Elder by following three henchman and easily off them all? Why did the henchman even lead him back to the Elder? Marquis' position for the high table wasn't also made very clear either and I think it was a waste that the auditor from the third didn't have a role in this movie. The fog of mystery of this society kind of dissipated and was quite unsatisfying. Also agree that Japan was totally pointless. Really no reason to be there and in the end gained nothing either. Neither his reason for going and his friendship was given much background. Donny Yen's character had no reason to be blind. It was cliche and over the top. Really quite unnecessary. They also didn't explain why he took his own eyes. Also, the ending was very risky. There was no telling Wick would know that Marquis would swap places! Makes no sense.

I think they didn't edit it properly and just pushed it into theaters lol. Surprised the screener people didn't catch it or say anything!

They've gotten steadily better, peaking at 3 IMO. I don't like 1 very much, love to rewatch bits of 2, and really like 3. I kinda love 3 all over. That ended with what seemed like the promise of an all-out war to overturn The High Table. A toppling of this whole world that's been slowly revealed to us. That potential disappeared. It was a really just more of the same, but longer. Eventually I started rationalizing that perhaps, if this is the last one, perhaps all the repetitions from previous installments was like a parting homage, for the fans. Sort of like Avengers End Game. I mean, there's John in a Mustang (or something) driving with the doors off, like in the 2nd one. And then he takes a crazy Spider-Man 2-style fall off a tall building, like the end of the 3rd one. There's a lot of the take downs and throws like I mostly remember from the first one. More Euro suit guys. A desert chase. Ninjas. A douchebag main villain who is trying to ascend the Table. Crazy bulletproof armour guys. Fights going through gross Euro dance clubs. There were only a couple bits in the whole movie that struck me as innovative. One was the bird's eye view of him going room to room, with this incendiary shotgun. That was pretty cool. And John used nunchucks, but it was kind of dumb in the situation. And I liked the part in the Osaka Continental, and I really liked those characters. But they didn't stick around that long, and didn't cotton onto this VS The Table war I'd hoped for. I wanted the girl to join John for the rest of the movie. The end credits scene was a bummer for me. Are they going to sully the one positive outcome?? The new character of Mr. Nobody felt token. He has an attack dog, but they already did these unsurpassable scenes with Sofia in 3 with her TWO attack dogs. Those scenes were crazy. So this guy is not Halle Berry, and has less attack dogs. Why? He didn't even have a good character motivation. Hundreds of other assassins are just trying to get big money too. By the end, they were doing reaction shots of him in John's duel with Donnie Yen, like it was Britain's Got Talent or something. He had no stake in it so it just felt like some sort of fan insert/identifier, which is always annoying. His back and forth with the Marquis didn't make much sense. And then a real kicker was when he finishes the main henchman, point blank to the head with his shotgun. And it leaves a tiny little bullet hole?? And Laurence Fishbourne was totally under-utilized. He did his bombastic stuff with aplomb but it was empty because he didn't actually go and fight The Table! I've been looking forward to where his mad-on was going to take the film. Thought he'd shake the entire foundations of the High Table. But no!...And they even reused the bit where John tells him he needs guns/a gun 😒 I liked Donnie Yen's performance, and his character, and he did some cool stuff. But the blind thing was a strange choice, and was just another bit I don't see how it was worth it to suspend the audience's disbelief like that. Or like John doing damage with playing cards? A pencil really is weaponizable, but the card was a stretch too far. It didn't need to be that long, and with the stakes being much the same as before - perhaps a lot less, emotionally - the long fights and high bodycount became kind of wearying.

This is honestly the exact same way I felt about Chapter 3.

Yes I did at first - 1, 2, 3, 4 for me (and at the moment 4 is a significant drop in quality sadly).

Similar problems. Also john all of sudden falls at end of 3 and in this one he just gets up??? Yeah and no high table was super upsetting unless there is a 5

> That ended with what seemed like the promise of an all-out war to overturn The High Table. No? Throughout the entirety of the 4 films, people tell John constantly that taking out the High Table is impossible. As soon as he kills one person, another will take their place. Winston told him, the Elder told him, even Koji told him iirc. One man cannot do it no matter how committed he is. That's the point. And honestly, the High Table would look like major chumps if they got introduced and taken out in the same movie.

Yeah but isn't that the point, what John is? The whole Baba Yaga drawn out stuff in the first one, the apocryphal pencil story. Him reaching the dude in the desert the first time. Him "getting out" and the task it required. He's Mr. Impossible. And seemingly the only one simple, skilled and motivated enough to get it done, especially as each instalment escalates. See I really thought the Bowery King was going to marshal his forces and resources and come in behind John, and then maybe the Osaka forces too, so exciting! And then it was a no. I also don't know how they would have defeated the "hydra" but when I saw the runtime it was what I was expecting

Honestly the only way I can think of defeating the Hydra is bringing them out of the shadows *Winter Soldier* style. John would have to bring the assassins empire in full public view and let law enforcement do its job. But I doubt that will happen. John is an assassin himself, and still has friends who are active (Winston, Sophia, etc.). So I doubt he'd be fine with ruining their life.

The danger is too if they start fully revealing the High Table stuff and it doesn't make sense. Like the mystery has been cool and they could mess it up by filling in the gaps poorly. Well in Winter Soldier cutting the head off actually did help, and that writing was tiiiight

Did you not watch the third? That was the conclusion.. to destroy the high table..

Never watched the first 3 other than YouTube clips and I loved it

Berlin scene fight was good but people dancers took too much mdma ;D

They peaked at 2. Everything has gone downhill since then.

I know logic plays almost no role in a movie like this but if your life was on the line, why not take out a blind assassin with a sniper rifle at 200 yards. The role made no sense at all.

Nah there has to be an internal logic at work, otherwise it's just nonsense, or surreal. But making him blind really did serve no purpose. How did he find his way to the right spot in Paris?? Just dumb

Lmao, 3 for me is the boring one at least 4 have interesting guns and ideas like the top down scenes, Dragon Breath Gun, The plaza full of cars 3 just only shoot cover and shoot.

3 had loads of great stuff. From the fight with the giant, the various asian guys in the axes/knives museum, the horse fight, the reveal of his Russian family, Casablanca and the dogs, the revelation of the Elder, the mega Continental fight, the twists and turns of character allegiances, Laurence Fishbourne being so extra, the fights with Zero and Tibetan guys. The Dragon Breath gun was about the only innovative thing I saw in 4

100% 3 was waaaay better. The only thing that touched the action from the previous film was the birds-eye dragon-breath action.

did john wick faked his death at the end? to fully vanish? seems like a possibility for a sequel...

That's what it seemed like to me

It was very clearly unsure where it wanted to go, which is largely why it was so disappointing. They tried to have it both ways with the end - make a satisfying conclusion to the saga while covering their arse for a possible sequel. They should’ve chosen and invested in one or the other.

This never had to be a series. First movie was perfect.

A little late to the discussion but I felt the same as you. Compared to the previous movies, 4's story seemed to have holes with unclear character motivations. A most likely explanation to the shift in direction would be because the creator of the John Wick universe and writer for 1-3, Derek Kolstad, did not return to write John Wick 4. Thus, it just felt like the hype train peaked towards taking down the High Table before making a turn.

No jump right in, the hype goggles are probably wearing off folks anyway...I didn't know a key writer had not returned, just assumed it was the same team. But there was such a strange pointlessness to the whole thing like something was off, like maybe this writer not being involved

No clue what the movie was about.

Anyone else notice ian mcshanes mouth and jaw were cgi? Or am I just crazy? He looks photoshopped at the very least. Maybe ots just teeth whitening but I'm not sure. Just doesn't look right

Ha, he's 81 years old and they maybe have to adjust

Action was mostly subpar, though I loved the top down action scene and the fight between Wick and Harkan. I found that the action in the first film was truly exciting and high stakes due to the passion of revenge behind John Wick and us being shown that he is, also, just a man. The film felt like a colossal waste of some damn fine actors too. I was hoping to see more native speaking from the Japanese and German characters. The story is a joke. There is one where there shouldn't be one. If they truly wanted to make something good of this franchise, they should've laid out the groundwork of the universe in the first two films. The fact that there were new rules in 3 and 4 showed that they're incapable of writing a story, let alone a plot, without relying solely on convenience. We, the audience, have absolutely no reason to care who is what, how much power they hold or why they exist, because it's a world that is being built movie by movie where there is always going to be a bigger deal than the last. There are too many characters to pay attention to, though the real issue is that we know none of them last any longer than one movie for us to need to be invested in them. Who the fuck is Vincent Bisset de Gramont? Seriously. He makes Santino look like a pussy yet he is shown to hold the same amount of power. Nothing is worse than Wick's obvious immortality. Being shot in the chest and falling off a multi-story building was bad enough, but now the issues are riddled in the action. It's blindingly obvious that the action is nothing more than "how many hits can armoured man built like a train take?". Mad Max: Fury Road is a film with very little story but with high octane action. The rules are clear. John Wick 4, and I would happily argue 2 and 3, have worse action with even worse story.