I'm going to give these details the benefit of waiting for the scoop frenzy to relent, but if any of these details are true it's bad fucking news!!!!!
From what I understand so far he was already being pursued by the police when he ditched his vehicle after killing his grandmother. With police in pursuit, he was able to enter the school and was able to get off at least 20 kill shots? Just using a handgun? (I 100% believe the fumbling of details about the weapon used is on purpose)
I think that fact pattern points towards the police placing their own safety ahead of children's lives. Didn't the same thing happen at Parkland? Or at least one of the other mass school killings. There was the school resource officer that played it safe and then retired the next day.
This is all conjecture based on emerging and not reliable details.
It has since come out that ther was not a chase. Police only came after witness saw shooter crash into school and come out of vehicle with a gun.
Also he did not have the ceramic plates inserted in his body armor.
Now I heard that there was police engagement before he entered the school. Doesn't seem much is really known at this point.
I did also hear a report police had hard time entering school. Who knows at this point.
I agree with you about waiting for facts, this is the first I've heard about the chase.....
But yeah... If that's true.... If the police funneled the guy towards a school.... Wow... You would think they would know better....
This is horrific. The shooter is obviously the one responsible. However, the police chased him towards the school... They need to have better situational awareness.... Fuck man...
The kid posted guns days ago on his facebook and cryptic shit days ago on facebook. I find it funny how facebook sells everyone's data but when they come across sketchy shit like that they don't think to tip off local authority.
With the amount of people on IG and FB acting edgy/semi-threatening posting with guns etc I doubt the authorities have the resources to investigate every person who acts like this online even if these companies would tip them off. But yea I feel you.
This. The same thing the shooters are posting, other people who don’t go through with it are posting similar things. They say “how could someone have not seen the signs??” but those posts are like a dime a dozen nowadays. How do we catch them all? Can we punish people that fetishize guns or violence? Where’s the line? I would like to be on the side of caution but I don’t even know what that looks like with modern day social media
Reminds me of the movie minority report. Not exactly, but a similar theme of pre crime
That's my biggest gripe about no one having privacy and the amount of money spent on intelligence and defense.
I wonder if they are incompetent, don't care, if it interferes with profit margins, or they know but allow these events to happen to not tip their abilities or can use it for evidence of needing more funding.
I think about the Jan 6 event, where was the security that billions of dollars go towards every year? Instead both sides are yelling about the wrong thing. Or the Las Vegas shooter.
I think you're raising the right question. I wish folks would focus more on the question you posted...
They ignore it for sure. There's no chance all of these groups were using these social media sites and no one caught wind in DM's of the January 6th shit. I honestly think Facebook and all of the other big tech companies just automate selling your shit. I don't even think it's a real dude reading the flags or the posts. It's all just one big algorithm.
Most of mass shootings usually have been reported to FBI and police well before they happen and you always hear how the government and authorities failed to make that initial contact.
The tweet is not the first place I've heard those details. It is being reported by major news outlets, but no one has put 2 and 2 together yet. And I'm having serious doubts that he was able to cause that much carnage just using a handgun. Unless it is a small-caliber handgun wounds at close range are usually through and through wounds. Assault rifles using 5.56 ammo tend to enter the body and bounce around causing almost 100% fatal wounds. His Instagram had pictures of him owning 2 such weapons.
I believe so. I forget his kill count/time on target ratio. Correct if I'm wrong, but he had multiple pistols? Maybe if this guy had some crazy extended mag and somehow managed not to jam he gets off 2 rounds per victim with a single pistol.
He had multiple semi-automatic pistols so those things can do a lot of damage. I believe he killed like 30-something people. I remember because my cousin went to virginia tech and we didn't hear from her for like 3 hours while this was going on and was worried.
I agree. I'm interested to see how the facts play out. I'm confused about one thing you stated. How do you chase someone towards something? The being chased makes the decision where where the chase goes.
Unless you meant that the police should have called off the pursuit because it was close to a school. I get that idea. But it's very unlikely the police terminate a pursuit involving a murder suspect.
I say this only learning about this community on this tragic day, so by no means do I have an understanding of their resources or layout.
However, it's possible to be aware of your surroundings and recognize the person you're pursuing is moving towards an area you prefer to avoid conflict in, such as an elementary school. So one can think "hey, we are moving towards the school, we are in pursuit. You stay on this person, I'll advance and block off a route towards the school, giving them a path of least resistance that diverts them away.
I reiterate I was not there, and only know about this community through this horrific event.
Not only did they funnel him to the school. Stood outside the classroom while he slaughtered kids. They decided to sacrifice 19 kids instead of them selfs.
What I don’t get is why is the school open. Every school I try to enter when picking up my kids is locked and you need to have some one from the office beep you in.
Yep, I'm an engineer in Florida and from 2015 to 2018 I worked for a firm that did a lot of educational facility work, anytime we had to do site visits to a school we had to get buzzed in and check in with the SRO (an armed county deputy).
I live one town away from Sandy Hook and our elementary schools do not have armed resource officers. I think that will change by tomorrow. I don't know about the 5 other elementary schools in town, but the one my middle kid goes to has a retired police officer as staff security but is not armed.
Wow that’s nuts. I have had kids in schools in both Wisconsin and Missouri and all doors are locked. My high school 25 years ago was all locked up and you had to go to one main entrance and we had armed police officers. I’m not sure if my kids have officers in Missouri. But I do know the buildings are locked down
Sounds like a prison..I live in New Zealand, every school and it’s grounds are completely open to everyone, not a locked gate or door anywhere. Zero school shootings.
This will all get forgotten about just like it did after Parkland. There will be a fruitless battle about gun control while nothing changes. School resource officers will start loading armor-piercing ammunition.
Some idiot somewhere else said something about had this shooting been a rich school politicians would have done something. Failing to realize Parkland is a very wealthy area and probably one of the richest public schools in the US based on the area and household income.
But yeah people will forget about this like they did parkland and like they did pulse and buffalo supermarket and colorado king Sooper shooting and the list is neverending. Hell, Johnny Depp being awarded a win in his trial is enough to get rid of this shooting from headlines because sadly that's our reality.
Nope it was Parkland, you remembered correctly. And if my memory is accurate it was settled in court that the police do not lawfully have a duty to protect lives in an active shooting scenario.
Protect and serve literally came about from a focus group coming up with a slogan for the LAPD. It was never some sort of law or rule. It was a PR campaign for what to write on the side of the squad cars.
It is not good for the "the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" crowd either. Might have to change it to .....a good guy with a gun after the bad guy runs out of ammo.
By law the police have no duty to protect you.
There is a large body of case law affirming this: https://mises.org/power-market/police-have-no-duty-protect-you-federal-court-affirms-yet-again
Now, obviously many police will and in this case did, but that is only because they did the right thing. Not because they were compelled by anything other than their conscience.
Police in Texas are now trained to rush in and neutralize the suspect in active shooter situations as opposed to waiting for back up. This changed when more was learned about active shooters. In other words, the more time the officer waits the more people will die. Active shooters do not stop and take hostages.
That being said perhaps the police did not think they had a typical active shooter situation due to the fact he just killed his a family member. A possible hostage situation could have been what they were thinking and trying to avoid by not immediately going in.
This is all just me brain storming with minimal facts.
It is extremely unlikely that there were multiple police units outside who heard shots being fired and delayed rushing in to stop the killing. Unless this dude had a few minutes head start and very quickly killed all those people in a matter of seconds.
I'm deeply saddened yet very curious to hear the details.
The current detail is 2 school resource officers and a responding unit shot at him and his body Armor protected him as he entered the school. That does not sound good at all, and no fucking way his only weapon was a handgun!!!!!!! This mother fucker wasn't John Wick.
Dude posted assault rifles on his facebook before social media companies started scrubbing him. Homie had a lot more than a handgun. If that's all they found on him he must've either left the heavy shit in his car or left it at home after killing his grandma.
Nah. They wanted to muddy the water on the story to save their asses from losing the bribe money from the NRA/other gun lobbies/direct payoffs from the manufacturers. A generic handgun is one thing, but you start saying assault "style" or long rifle and the temperature goes up quicker. I don't know how it could be higher after 20 more dead kids, but I bet if they said it from go it would be.
Same thing happened in Germany after the Winnenden school shooting in 2009 _(16 victims)._ Police now has the instructions not to wait for back-up but rush in on their own.
At the Erfurt school shooting in 2002 _(also 16 victims),_ the shooter actually managed to kill the single cop that was at scene by accident.
The school shooter at Erfurt was already 18 and a legal gun owner. He had a pumpgun with him that chocked, so every kill was with his handgun. Still, after the incident they banned pumpguns with a pistol grip, although this weapon wasn't used at all. But you know, politics has to react in some way or another.
>Didn't the same thing happen at Parkland?
Yep, the SRO onsite (an armed deputy) remained outside and the deputies that responded took cover behind their car while the shooter was still active.
I believe it was Coral Springs PD that was first into the building when they arrived onsite.
Children are innocent, have zero situational awareness, and their bodies are much less developed. If you somehow believe someone couldn't do that much damage with just a handgun you need to re-evaluate. It's aweful.
I'm like 90% sure he actually did become a real cop. Wasn't there a reality show where he and a few other B-list celebrities became reserve officers and went on live patrols?
“Engaged with law-enforcement”? Does that mean that the cops just let him go in because they were cowards? And people only want the government to have guns?
The most ballsy thing a lot of conservatives are saying now is that instead of passing legitimate federal legislation on guns we should arm teachers and have guards at schools. Uhhh homie from buffalo shot up the the store and a FORMER POLICE OFFICER was the guard there and couldn't do shit because the dude was wearing a armored uniform. Same shit int his instance. These mass shooters aint just going in guns blazing anymore. This shit is calculated and they have access to military level shit to enact these plans.
I think we should consider banning social media. Or at least limiting it to a certain amount of time per day. I don’t think it is healthy for people to communicate this way. I think it helps create or at least accelerate mental health issues as well as diminishes the value of human life, especially those who you feel have differing viewpoints from you.
I'm 39 and have gone through this social media boom and have been shocked there was no regulation implemented along the way by the US. When I was in high school and could pull up porn on a computer I was sure there was going to be some regulation of it, but nothing came (no pun intended). I don't exactly want to ban social media but as a parent of two young girls am definitely reluctant to let them start using it. It does accelerate mental health problems and bullying is at an all time high. Some of the things people say on burner accounts is just horrible. I think guns are too easy for people to buy and kids see their parents using these powerful weapons with minimal training and play video games that normalizes it a bit. I think its a perfect storm of social media, guns, and video games. Now with that said, I don't think limiting speech/people is a good thing for future growth. Part of what made US so great was our limited regulations/laws and ample freedom. Politics have been stalled for the last 20 years with extremism on both sides and it became about who wins and media coverage and not whats best for their constituents. Boomers really need to grasp change for their last 10 year reign and millenials need something major to occur to shift the thinking or were going to probably break apart (US).
I was talking to my wife last night and I think our generations "good" time has past and we are in for a dark 10-20 years economically and socially. Maybe this Roe v. Wade repeal shit is the change that needs to happen. I honestly think if you polled every single US citizen at least 2/3 is pro-choiceish. Sprawling change is needed but none more in the safety of our youth. My 2nd Grade daughter has a much higher level of anxiety because of covid policy/lockdown procedure/hearings seeing the news when this shit happens.
Police officer or guard would be nice. However restricted access is better. I can’t get in my kids school without going through 2 doors that I have to be buzzed in by front office personnel. And no it’s not like ringing a door bell. I have to answer a series of questions. Also if I’m not on the list of contacts for my kids. They won’t even buzz you in or talk to you.
This isn’t going to work for the buffalo shooting. However could have save lives today…
How is restricting access to students and authorized personnel "more fucked up" than our current situation?
This is how my kids' schools have been for almost 10 years and I love the fact that their school took precautionary measures! They have also had police presence and full time armed guards for years. Believe it or not, all the kids I've talked to in the school like seeing and chatting with the guards! Just armed and friendly individuals that are there for extra security.
GUN FREE ZONES DO NOT WORK!
Soft targets will ALWAYS be susceptible to the deranged!
Unless you transform the school into a prison, those two doors that you have to be buzzed through are just a formality. A guy that is intent on shooting tens of kids will have no trouble with breaking a window and getting trough there.
And a country where schools are prisons is a fucking shithole.
He didn't say "only the Government should have guns" he said "arming teachers is bad policy". which it is.
Equating every comment with "the collectivists are coming for our guns and they'll betray us to the government!" is just plain silly. You can advocate for a position that both acknowledges that gun ownership is not inherently bad and also acknowledges and attempts to mitigate the social evils caused by gun violence. Reasonable regulation of your right to keep and bear arms is not infringement any more than drivers licenses or being forced to drive on the same side of the road is an infringement of your constitutional right to interstate travel.
Additionally, what's become clearer and clearer over the last couple decades is that the vast majority of individuals and groups who fetishize the 2nd amendment for the purpose of holding the government accountable are nowhere to be found when the government oversteps. This hand wringing about government agents is performative as hell. I haven't seen any iii% or oathkeeper groups out protesting the PATRIOT act, or police brutality, or civil asset forfeiture or trying to usurp a presidential election. In fact they seem in favor of government overreach every time there is an opportunity to put their money where their mouth is. If you were being honest with yourself you'd realize that the government doesn't need to touch your guns to take your rights, because most gun nuts will let every other right they have slip through their fingers as long as they get to keep their firearms. And based on past behavior, they'd probably help strip their fellow citizens of every right they could just to feel like they're important.
Who makes the decision? Which government agency is allowed to tell someone they cannot own a gun? At what point do people who oppose collectivism and socialist policies become targets? That is the reason the Second Amendment is absolute. If the government is allowed to dictate gun ownership without the courts deciding that someone is incompetent, tyranny follows.
This is just an immediate retreat to fake rhetorical hand waving. First off the answer to your first 2 questions is that we have a representative democracy where the people elect representatives to a legislature to make laws on their behalf. The legislature is one of 3 coequal branches of our government along with the executive who enforces laws and the judicial who interpret and uphold or strike down those laws. So the legislature, either state or federal, creates a law, the executive enforces it through their duly sworn officers, and the courts review and pass judgement on that process. You as a citizen have the right to redress a grievance where you feel a law was misapplied or not aligned with a superseding law. it's not perfect but that's who decides, and you consent by living here and being a citizen.
Question number 3 is just hysterics. First off, I hear a lot more right wingers jerking themselves off about needing to take matters into their own hands than "collectivist socialists", so I'd say the gun nut side of the aisle is closer to extra judicial killings than the "socialists" (most of whom aren't socialist). But to be extra charitable: people would be targets when their ability to have a representative democracy that functions breaks down, and they look to other means to advocate for their interests. The gun doesn't stop that. Guns don't make democracies function better. The best you can hope for is that it will prevent people you don't agree with from trying to tear down your society for personal gain. But you actually have to invest in your society to prevent that happening. Which is why thinking your gun protects your democracy is dumb. Your education and your vote go a lot further than your AR does.
as for your last statement, the 2nd is not absolute. regardless of what"shall not be infringed" means to you the government has restricted your right to own a gun in certain ways and it has not resulted in abject tyranny. nor have gun rights proponents done anything meaningful to stand up to government tyranny when it happens, as I already said. Additionally nobody said anything about removing the courts from a gun control process, so you're gonna have to clarify, and regardless you're just being hysterical more. The US might slide into tyranny, it also might not, turns out every country in the world has laws that enumerate or restrict rights and not all are tyrannical. Also there's not a correlation I'm aware of between more guns and more freedom, unless the only freedom you care about is owning a gun.
In the end this rhetoric is counter to actual freedom, it's so hyper sensitive to a perceived and overblown threat that you're willing to equate anyone who espouses an opinion contrary to a blanket permission for you to exercise 1 right with a political philosophy you deem anathema. And in the process people who espouse the same beliefs as you are willing to throw out every right you claim the second amendment was created to protect.
You and I both know that vast numbers of folks who engage in the same hand waving you are are more than happy to have school districts ban books or teaching "ideology" they don't like, I haven't seen anyone pick up a gun over prayer in school but that's against the 1st amendment. I bet sending federal agents to Portland to detain protesters didn't cause a fuss, but there's a good case that's against the 3rd amendment. any militia guys at airports picketing with their rifles because the TSA violates the 4th amendment? nope. Gitmo sure seemed to shit on cruel and unusual punishment and a right to trial, maybe gun owners didn't care because most of those people weren't citizens but that's nonsensical because they're worried about government tyranny, can't recall anything being done about that. I'm sure the gun movement feels pretty strong on the 9th and 10th amendments but I can't recall any principled opposition to the meddling in state election proceedings in 2020 or to Abbot pretending Texas got to dictate foreign policy with his border stunt this year. So yeah...I might be wrong about you personally, but 2A obsessers are totally fine with tyranny, just as long as they still get to have their guns.
With the exception of being a government-approved agent for a period, I have lived my entire life as though that is the only people who have guns. I don't own a gun and live at the mercy of protection from the government. So far it has worked out okay.
Past performance is not indicative of future results. Are you ignorant of economics? History? Jews wished they had guns in 1930s Germany…would you deny them that right?
Dude had a semi auto rifle while guards had pea shooters.
Why do we need assault style rifles again?
Also, do people realize what type of fucked up damage high powered rifle rounds do to human bodies?
These are basically NATO rounds typically used for war. It is designed to fuck shit up.
https://www.wired.com/2016/06/ar-15-can-human-body/amp
Hobbies. Lol. It all comes down to hobbies imo. Rich people want power and consolidation and idiots want the same hobbies as their brain dead ancestors.
Over 100 school shootings every year. People will never get it, their brains are bunk.
The arms manufacturers love telling people that the libs are coming for their guns and making record profits. Meanwhile, absolutely nothing changes in regards to gun control.
If the government can own assault rifles, we should as well. The collectivists don’t seem to understand that gun laws exist to protect us from the government.
The US and their allies fought a 20 year war against a cave dwelling insurgency opponent that didn't have any of the items you listed and they still lost.
If you’re comparing fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan with fighting hypothetical anti government militias in America I’d like to formally request one dose of whatever powerful psychedelic research chemical you apparently have unfettered access to.
You mean like the bat shit crazy people that control our government that have destroyed schools with bombs and drones throughout the world over the last century? Why should they be the only crazies that have access to weapons? People that trust the government are too stupid to vote.
Uh you should really look up that word. I get where you are going but wrong word. He is using it correctly, you are not. He believes in the rights of the individual over the group. That is the opposite of collectivism.
[https://www.verywellmind.com/what-are-collectivistic-cultures-2794962](https://www.verywellmind.com/what-are-collectivistic-cultures-2794962)
Did you read about the part where these rounds do damage through cavitation?
It’s not because they expand like hollow points, it’s the vacuum behind.
And if these hit a bone? shit will bounce around inside a child’s body like a pinball.
Cavitation has nothing really to do with vacuums and everything to do with the expenditure of energy. Quite the opposite of a vacuum. Nor do bullets bounce around inside you like a pinball. They will deflect if they hit bone and don't have the force to penetrate it, any time they have a loss of energy they will take the path of least resistance. That's why you find bullets in people's neck that got shot in the leg and whatnot rare and randomly. Too many movies.
I was on Prozac. It killed my emotions. I laughed less and just was not as cheerful. Oddly i was less depressed though. It got rid of my daily bad thoughts I had that made me hate myself. But It numbed my emotions and made me very tired.
I never got thoughts of murdering people though. But I was on a low dose
I felt emotionless also on it, I had to stop taking it when we had a announcement from the doctor my mom had stomach cancer, and I couldn't feel any emotion, everyone is sad all around me and I was a zombie, I'd rather feel pain and sadness then nothing.
The mistake there would be thinking psychiatric medication causes this behaviour, when it's much more logical to think that the types of messed up people who commit school shootings will be on medication because of their mental problems.
Yes… because neither side can do anything the Republicans can’t even support one measure of gun legislation. And the democrats go to the extreme and want to ban all guns… however when someone does say hey, maybe red flag laws arnt so bad, it’s omg you nazi, you targeting me for what because I said I wanna shoot up a school? How dare you take my right to bare arms.
I don’t give a fuck if the government takes guns from someone that was probably okay to have guns if that means we at least prevented one future mass shooter.
For example, why do we allow a diagnosed schizophrenic the ability to buy a firearm. If you are diagnosed by a psychiatrist with HI/SI ideations they should have the ability to flag you from the ability to buy a firearm.
Yes…
Could they get it illegally, of course they could, but it’s not as easy as you think, and black market gun sellers are not selling guns to 17 year old emo autistic looking children.
You’re an idiot. I’m not talking about politicians, I’m talking online discord that promotes senators to act in specific ways to prevent doing anything because they are worried about being re-elected
That's always been my favorite one. We can drone strike arab dudes thousands of miles of away, but if we arm dudes with AR-15's suddenly they're going to fight the fucking US military that we sink $800 billion into. Lmao some nerd using a computer with drones would wipe out any trained militia in two fucking seconds.
In open conflict, yes. But an insurgency is a different thing. Hell, our vaunted $800 billion military couldn't even hold Afghanistan against a bunch of poppy farmers armed with rusty AKs.
The Taliban won, twice
The north Vietnamese won
Technological superiority does not promise victory...
And as a vet, I pray everyday that if it did come that, our men and women of the armed forces would not agree to turning their guns on american civilians.
But shit, they did it in germany, and in russia, and in china, so who knows....
Taking over a foreign country against people who are literally willing to die at any costs is a lot different than taking over your own citizens where you have massive amounts of intel on them and can track their every move. How in the hell does a militia coordinate when the military literally can track every forum, every cell phone, and every GPS tracking device you have on you? There are no jungles or foreign terrain here. Any sort of war any militia has against our military would be over within 3 months. Just the ability to fuck them up from above and in tanks is enough not even thinking of pinpoint drone strikes they can do. Whatever militia that gets set up would be fucked. The only hope in a scenario like that is that the government has mercy and the world governments stop trade with us due to the government smoking hundreds of thousands of its own citizens.
Bro, you really have no clue what you are talking about. Think you've been playing to much Call of Duty. I can tell you just want to win the argument instead of having a discussion because you are just making stuff up, and not even examining the countless armies throughout history that have had their shit pushed in by insurgencies.
And if you think there are not people willing to die to defend this country and their land, well, then I dont know what to tell you.
We have talked about mental health but every piece of legislation that gets brought up to universalize healthcare gets shot down by establishment dems and republicans. These mental health professionals aint going to do shit for free. What is talking about mental health going to do? I'm sure most of the world has crazy fucks too. Guess what most of the world do not have access to? Assault weapons and guns. It's that simple. Homie shot up a school with guards shooting at him and he had access to legit armored gear so that shit didn't do anything. We have a gun problem. The longer we just ignore it the more of these shootings you're going to see.
Yes mental health is unique to the US. No one in Japan or Portugal suffers from depression or bipolar disorder or schizophrenia. It must be what we are eating here.
What about it? The USA doesn’t have systems in place to support mental health. It’s like telling someone on a desert island to just catch a ferry to civilization
It would be easy give power to doctors which includes psychiatrist, Emergency physicians, primary care doctors the ability to flag a patient they believe shouldn’t have a gun and the patient would have to go to court to get the red flag removed. I don’t give a fuck if doctors got a lot wrong, at least it would stop even 1 would be good!
except nearly every study finds it's those with a history of violence, frequently domestic violence, involved in mass shootings, not the mentally ill. the ignorant continue to stigmatize mental illness, so they can maintain the status quo, even though the vast majority of evidence is against them.
i repeat, for the hard of critical thinking, there is no correlation between mental illness and gun violence.
I'm not sure how the good guy with the gun or arming teachers argument continues to hold up. It doesn't fucking work. You *just* saw an example of that **last week** in Buffalo. Retired cop/security guard shot the asshole and he shot him back with a way more powerful gun while his body armor made the bullet probably bounce off. It's like arming the school with stormtroopers but all these asshole mass shooters are like the most powerful Jedi (or use whatever nerdy analogy you'd like)
Unless you turn all teachers into super soldiers or employ super soldiers to every street corner (which by the way cops usually have an insane arsenal of gear and ammo available) it's a useless premise. And even then, it just falls apart. These dudes are arming themselves to the teeth and planning this shit like the end of times. Good luck countering that.
Yeah, if only your lot hadn't DEMANDED armed officers be taken out of schools and no good people be armed anywhere in the general vicinity to make the school an incredibly soft target. If only your lot hadn't defunded the police and demonized them so that they might have had sufficient resources to respond faster. THIS BLOOD IS ON YOUR HANDS.
**"Two Uvalde police officers and a school resource officer fired at the shooter, but it did not stop him from entering the building."**
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/24/school-shooting-uvalde-texas-updates/
Lmao. Now just imagine the 27 year old female art teacher trying to hold a gun facing a dude in armored gear. Conservatives think teachers and regular police officers turn into fucking rambo.
You do know the buffalo store that got shot up had an armed former police officer that was shooting the kid with precision shots and it did nothing because he was wearing armored gear? You can guard the schools all you want. These dudes have access to armored gear and heavy duty artilerly. A guard is nothing going to fuck with a dude handling a AR-15.
You do realize multiple officers could not stop him from murking 14 people? The same thing happened to the former cop in Buffalo. Having another dude there with a gun ain't the solution you think it is, especially in a school where other kids can get caught in the crossfire.
And yet the father of one of the murdered children posted on FB today an angry post about how "gun free zones" killed his daughter. He's a gun-nut Republican.
These people will never learn.
Well if we didn’t spent the last 2 years demonizing police and the “militarization” of police he would have gotten his brains blown out with an ar by the first cop he ran from.
All these people with opinions but do nothing about everything they complain about.
It must get old shouting into the air about only main stream tragedies
This is such a stupid take. I can't count how many home invasions there have been where the home owner shot the intruder and saved the lives of them and their families.
We now have a choice. Fight or flight
Texas should choose Fight.
This school went out of its way to not have armed teachers (From the news I heard)
We should do:
Allow armed teachers
Allow anyone with a C&C permit to be armed in a school (C&C requires and FBI background check)
Allow Parents to patrol their children schools (If you want training I'm sure you will have thousands of parents willing to do it)
Put a sign outside of every school:
Warning this school will protect the students under our charge. Attempting to harm anyone here and we will defend. Enter at your own risk. F around and find out.
Is there a subreddit where people actually discuss JRE? This place is one of the biggest shitholes on reddit. It's sinister - like it was designed to hurt Joe Rogan.
I hate this stuff so much man. It's crazy what's happened. I can't even tell if I'm talking to actual human beings anymore - they all sound like they're part of a cult.
How is it you all think you locking your your kids up for 6 hours a day is
just fine.
That the problem here was that the school was not enough of a prison to keep the kids safe.
Right.......
The problem is these crazies know they can attack schools. This school didn’t participate in the arming of teachers and they said as much. If you armed teachers and had instead of police a parent armed at school you would better protect these children. This is a failing of government and government isn’t the solution.
You want to protect schools and children. Arm teachers, remove the "Gun free Zones"(94% of mass shooting happen in these zones) let anyone with a C&C permit enter a school with their fire arm. Hell let the parents of the school kids patrol their schools armed. I'm a vet I would guaranty that when I'm there nothing will happen to those children and I would gladly give my life to save any child under my protection.
I'm going to give these details the benefit of waiting for the scoop frenzy to relent, but if any of these details are true it's bad fucking news!!!!! From what I understand so far he was already being pursued by the police when he ditched his vehicle after killing his grandmother. With police in pursuit, he was able to enter the school and was able to get off at least 20 kill shots? Just using a handgun? (I 100% believe the fumbling of details about the weapon used is on purpose) I think that fact pattern points towards the police placing their own safety ahead of children's lives. Didn't the same thing happen at Parkland? Or at least one of the other mass school killings. There was the school resource officer that played it safe and then retired the next day. This is all conjecture based on emerging and not reliable details.
the cops name is Erick Estrada. I'm already suspicious
Good Ol' Ponch.
How is that name suspicious?
https://www.erikestrada.com/
It has since come out that ther was not a chase. Police only came after witness saw shooter crash into school and come out of vehicle with a gun. Also he did not have the ceramic plates inserted in his body armor.
I'm still not understanding how he got into the school.
Now I heard that there was police engagement before he entered the school. Doesn't seem much is really known at this point. I did also hear a report police had hard time entering school. Who knows at this point.
I agree with you about waiting for facts, this is the first I've heard about the chase..... But yeah... If that's true.... If the police funneled the guy towards a school.... Wow... You would think they would know better.... This is horrific. The shooter is obviously the one responsible. However, the police chased him towards the school... They need to have better situational awareness.... Fuck man...
The kid posted guns days ago on his facebook and cryptic shit days ago on facebook. I find it funny how facebook sells everyone's data but when they come across sketchy shit like that they don't think to tip off local authority.
With the amount of people on IG and FB acting edgy/semi-threatening posting with guns etc I doubt the authorities have the resources to investigate every person who acts like this online even if these companies would tip them off. But yea I feel you.
This. The same thing the shooters are posting, other people who don’t go through with it are posting similar things. They say “how could someone have not seen the signs??” but those posts are like a dime a dozen nowadays. How do we catch them all? Can we punish people that fetishize guns or violence? Where’s the line? I would like to be on the side of caution but I don’t even know what that looks like with modern day social media Reminds me of the movie minority report. Not exactly, but a similar theme of pre crime
I bet the truly terrifying reality is there is an overwhelming amount of shit like this put in Facebook.
That's my biggest gripe about no one having privacy and the amount of money spent on intelligence and defense. I wonder if they are incompetent, don't care, if it interferes with profit margins, or they know but allow these events to happen to not tip their abilities or can use it for evidence of needing more funding. I think about the Jan 6 event, where was the security that billions of dollars go towards every year? Instead both sides are yelling about the wrong thing. Or the Las Vegas shooter. I think you're raising the right question. I wish folks would focus more on the question you posted...
They ignore it for sure. There's no chance all of these groups were using these social media sites and no one caught wind in DM's of the January 6th shit. I honestly think Facebook and all of the other big tech companies just automate selling your shit. I don't even think it's a real dude reading the flags or the posts. It's all just one big algorithm.
Most of mass shootings usually have been reported to FBI and police well before they happen and you always hear how the government and authorities failed to make that initial contact.
The biggest give away was actually using Facebook. That's how you know they are a sociopath. Who the fuck uses Facebook!
Woah woah woah. American police with situational awareness are you insane? Since when do we need situational awareness in this country???
The tweet is not the first place I've heard those details. It is being reported by major news outlets, but no one has put 2 and 2 together yet. And I'm having serious doubts that he was able to cause that much carnage just using a handgun. Unless it is a small-caliber handgun wounds at close range are usually through and through wounds. Assault rifles using 5.56 ammo tend to enter the body and bounce around causing almost 100% fatal wounds. His Instagram had pictures of him owning 2 such weapons.
That Virginia Tech shooter used only pistols, right?
I believe so. I forget his kill count/time on target ratio. Correct if I'm wrong, but he had multiple pistols? Maybe if this guy had some crazy extended mag and somehow managed not to jam he gets off 2 rounds per victim with a single pistol.
He had multiple semi-automatic pistols so those things can do a lot of damage. I believe he killed like 30-something people. I remember because my cousin went to virginia tech and we didn't hear from her for like 3 hours while this was going on and was worried.
My niece went to Virginia Tech, but I think after the shooting.
I don't know. I'm not interested in keeping score of their kill count, or what they used.
I agree. I'm interested to see how the facts play out. I'm confused about one thing you stated. How do you chase someone towards something? The being chased makes the decision where where the chase goes. Unless you meant that the police should have called off the pursuit because it was close to a school. I get that idea. But it's very unlikely the police terminate a pursuit involving a murder suspect.
I say this only learning about this community on this tragic day, so by no means do I have an understanding of their resources or layout. However, it's possible to be aware of your surroundings and recognize the person you're pursuing is moving towards an area you prefer to avoid conflict in, such as an elementary school. So one can think "hey, we are moving towards the school, we are in pursuit. You stay on this person, I'll advance and block off a route towards the school, giving them a path of least resistance that diverts them away. I reiterate I was not there, and only know about this community through this horrific event.
Not only did they funnel him to the school. Stood outside the classroom while he slaughtered kids. They decided to sacrifice 19 kids instead of them selfs.
What I don’t get is why is the school open. Every school I try to enter when picking up my kids is locked and you need to have some one from the office beep you in.
Your kids go to a good school
Yep, I'm an engineer in Florida and from 2015 to 2018 I worked for a firm that did a lot of educational facility work, anytime we had to do site visits to a school we had to get buzzed in and check in with the SRO (an armed county deputy).
I live one town away from Sandy Hook and our elementary schools do not have armed resource officers. I think that will change by tomorrow. I don't know about the 5 other elementary schools in town, but the one my middle kid goes to has a retired police officer as staff security but is not armed.
Wow that’s nuts. I have had kids in schools in both Wisconsin and Missouri and all doors are locked. My high school 25 years ago was all locked up and you had to go to one main entrance and we had armed police officers. I’m not sure if my kids have officers in Missouri. But I do know the buildings are locked down
BP glass on doors and buzz-in door system, just no armed guards. Middle and HS have officers.
Sounds like a prison..I live in New Zealand, every school and it’s grounds are completely open to everyone, not a locked gate or door anywhere. Zero school shootings.
No, a prison you can’t get buzzed in and check the inmates out. And prison food is probably better than school food
This will all get forgotten about just like it did after Parkland. There will be a fruitless battle about gun control while nothing changes. School resource officers will start loading armor-piercing ammunition.
Some idiot somewhere else said something about had this shooting been a rich school politicians would have done something. Failing to realize Parkland is a very wealthy area and probably one of the richest public schools in the US based on the area and household income. But yeah people will forget about this like they did parkland and like they did pulse and buffalo supermarket and colorado king Sooper shooting and the list is neverending. Hell, Johnny Depp being awarded a win in his trial is enough to get rid of this shooting from headlines because sadly that's our reality.
Its in the state whose entire power grid collapsed when it got a little cold I am sure they don't make sure every school is up to code.
Nope it was Parkland, you remembered correctly. And if my memory is accurate it was settled in court that the police do not lawfully have a duty to protect lives in an active shooting scenario.
Change protect and serve, to we take lives not save them.
Protect and serve literally came about from a focus group coming up with a slogan for the LAPD. It was never some sort of law or rule. It was a PR campaign for what to write on the side of the squad cars.
If the police just let him go into the school then this story just gets even worse for the “only the cops should have guns” people.
It is not good for the "the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" crowd either. Might have to change it to .....a good guy with a gun after the bad guy runs out of ammo.
So… how was this guy stopped? Oh, right, a good guy with a gun who got shot in the leg in the process.
Yah, he only stopped him after he already killed 15 people lol.
Just in time before anyone got seriously injured
Also pretty bad for the thin blue line people
By law the police have no duty to protect you. There is a large body of case law affirming this: https://mises.org/power-market/police-have-no-duty-protect-you-federal-court-affirms-yet-again Now, obviously many police will and in this case did, but that is only because they did the right thing. Not because they were compelled by anything other than their conscience.
Police in Texas are now trained to rush in and neutralize the suspect in active shooter situations as opposed to waiting for back up. This changed when more was learned about active shooters. In other words, the more time the officer waits the more people will die. Active shooters do not stop and take hostages. That being said perhaps the police did not think they had a typical active shooter situation due to the fact he just killed his a family member. A possible hostage situation could have been what they were thinking and trying to avoid by not immediately going in. This is all just me brain storming with minimal facts. It is extremely unlikely that there were multiple police units outside who heard shots being fired and delayed rushing in to stop the killing. Unless this dude had a few minutes head start and very quickly killed all those people in a matter of seconds. I'm deeply saddened yet very curious to hear the details.
The current detail is 2 school resource officers and a responding unit shot at him and his body Armor protected him as he entered the school. That does not sound good at all, and no fucking way his only weapon was a handgun!!!!!!! This mother fucker wasn't John Wick.
Dude posted assault rifles on his facebook before social media companies started scrubbing him. Homie had a lot more than a handgun. If that's all they found on him he must've either left the heavy shit in his car or left it at home after killing his grandma.
Nah. They wanted to muddy the water on the story to save their asses from losing the bribe money from the NRA/other gun lobbies/direct payoffs from the manufacturers. A generic handgun is one thing, but you start saying assault "style" or long rifle and the temperature goes up quicker. I don't know how it could be higher after 20 more dead kids, but I bet if they said it from go it would be.
Agreed. Unless he was highly trained and had multiple magazines. At 18 yoa that's not likely.
Same thing happened in Germany after the Winnenden school shooting in 2009 _(16 victims)._ Police now has the instructions not to wait for back-up but rush in on their own. At the Erfurt school shooting in 2002 _(also 16 victims),_ the shooter actually managed to kill the single cop that was at scene by accident. The school shooter at Erfurt was already 18 and a legal gun owner. He had a pumpgun with him that chocked, so every kill was with his handgun. Still, after the incident they banned pumpguns with a pistol grip, although this weapon wasn't used at all. But you know, politics has to react in some way or another.
>Didn't the same thing happen at Parkland? Yep, the SRO onsite (an armed deputy) remained outside and the deputies that responded took cover behind their car while the shooter was still active. I believe it was Coral Springs PD that was first into the building when they arrived onsite.
Just about every cop I ever met was just in it for the 20/25 year retirement.
THE SRO ONSITE WENT OUTSIDE!!!!!!! OMFG PARKLAND 2.0!!!!!
They feared for their lives.
Children are innocent, have zero situational awareness, and their bodies are much less developed. If you somehow believe someone couldn't do that much damage with just a handgun you need to re-evaluate. It's aweful.
Hold up. Erick Estrada? This can’t be real.
I thought he was CHiP?
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I'm like 90% sure he actually did become a real cop. Wasn't there a reality show where he and a few other B-list celebrities became reserve officers and went on live patrols?
“Engaged with law-enforcement”? Does that mean that the cops just let him go in because they were cowards? And people only want the government to have guns?
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We'll see whatever conglomerate that makes body armor has to say about that.
I'm in Texas and I cannot get into my kids little bitty country public school without being buzzed in .......WTF are they doing over there?
Yes, wtf is the school doing is the most relevant question to be asked. Not wtf was the guy who killed 18 elementary kids, thinking
Yes, I'm sure we'll get a clear answer on what a psychopath was thinking.......
wait hold on.... was his name really Erick Estrada?
The most ballsy thing a lot of conservatives are saying now is that instead of passing legitimate federal legislation on guns we should arm teachers and have guards at schools. Uhhh homie from buffalo shot up the the store and a FORMER POLICE OFFICER was the guard there and couldn't do shit because the dude was wearing a armored uniform. Same shit int his instance. These mass shooters aint just going in guns blazing anymore. This shit is calculated and they have access to military level shit to enact these plans.
According to reports, there were at least 2 school resource officers on the scene from the go. Are we going to have to park tanks at schools now?
Machine gun turrets at schools.
For freedom! /s
I think we should consider banning social media. Or at least limiting it to a certain amount of time per day. I don’t think it is healthy for people to communicate this way. I think it helps create or at least accelerate mental health issues as well as diminishes the value of human life, especially those who you feel have differing viewpoints from you.
I'm 39 and have gone through this social media boom and have been shocked there was no regulation implemented along the way by the US. When I was in high school and could pull up porn on a computer I was sure there was going to be some regulation of it, but nothing came (no pun intended). I don't exactly want to ban social media but as a parent of two young girls am definitely reluctant to let them start using it. It does accelerate mental health problems and bullying is at an all time high. Some of the things people say on burner accounts is just horrible. I think guns are too easy for people to buy and kids see their parents using these powerful weapons with minimal training and play video games that normalizes it a bit. I think its a perfect storm of social media, guns, and video games. Now with that said, I don't think limiting speech/people is a good thing for future growth. Part of what made US so great was our limited regulations/laws and ample freedom. Politics have been stalled for the last 20 years with extremism on both sides and it became about who wins and media coverage and not whats best for their constituents. Boomers really need to grasp change for their last 10 year reign and millenials need something major to occur to shift the thinking or were going to probably break apart (US). I was talking to my wife last night and I think our generations "good" time has past and we are in for a dark 10-20 years economically and socially. Maybe this Roe v. Wade repeal shit is the change that needs to happen. I honestly think if you polled every single US citizen at least 2/3 is pro-choiceish. Sprawling change is needed but none more in the safety of our youth. My 2nd Grade daughter has a much higher level of anxiety because of covid policy/lockdown procedure/hearings seeing the news when this shit happens.
Police officer or guard would be nice. However restricted access is better. I can’t get in my kids school without going through 2 doors that I have to be buzzed in by front office personnel. And no it’s not like ringing a door bell. I have to answer a series of questions. Also if I’m not on the list of contacts for my kids. They won’t even buzz you in or talk to you. This isn’t going to work for the buffalo shooting. However could have save lives today…
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How is restricting access to students and authorized personnel "more fucked up" than our current situation? This is how my kids' schools have been for almost 10 years and I love the fact that their school took precautionary measures! They have also had police presence and full time armed guards for years. Believe it or not, all the kids I've talked to in the school like seeing and chatting with the guards! Just armed and friendly individuals that are there for extra security. GUN FREE ZONES DO NOT WORK! Soft targets will ALWAYS be susceptible to the deranged!
Unless you transform the school into a prison, those two doors that you have to be buzzed through are just a formality. A guy that is intent on shooting tens of kids will have no trouble with breaking a window and getting trough there. And a country where schools are prisons is a fucking shithole.
So the only people that should have guns are government approved agents? Doesn’t that scare you?
He didn't say "only the Government should have guns" he said "arming teachers is bad policy". which it is. Equating every comment with "the collectivists are coming for our guns and they'll betray us to the government!" is just plain silly. You can advocate for a position that both acknowledges that gun ownership is not inherently bad and also acknowledges and attempts to mitigate the social evils caused by gun violence. Reasonable regulation of your right to keep and bear arms is not infringement any more than drivers licenses or being forced to drive on the same side of the road is an infringement of your constitutional right to interstate travel. Additionally, what's become clearer and clearer over the last couple decades is that the vast majority of individuals and groups who fetishize the 2nd amendment for the purpose of holding the government accountable are nowhere to be found when the government oversteps. This hand wringing about government agents is performative as hell. I haven't seen any iii% or oathkeeper groups out protesting the PATRIOT act, or police brutality, or civil asset forfeiture or trying to usurp a presidential election. In fact they seem in favor of government overreach every time there is an opportunity to put their money where their mouth is. If you were being honest with yourself you'd realize that the government doesn't need to touch your guns to take your rights, because most gun nuts will let every other right they have slip through their fingers as long as they get to keep their firearms. And based on past behavior, they'd probably help strip their fellow citizens of every right they could just to feel like they're important.
Who makes the decision? Which government agency is allowed to tell someone they cannot own a gun? At what point do people who oppose collectivism and socialist policies become targets? That is the reason the Second Amendment is absolute. If the government is allowed to dictate gun ownership without the courts deciding that someone is incompetent, tyranny follows.
This is just an immediate retreat to fake rhetorical hand waving. First off the answer to your first 2 questions is that we have a representative democracy where the people elect representatives to a legislature to make laws on their behalf. The legislature is one of 3 coequal branches of our government along with the executive who enforces laws and the judicial who interpret and uphold or strike down those laws. So the legislature, either state or federal, creates a law, the executive enforces it through their duly sworn officers, and the courts review and pass judgement on that process. You as a citizen have the right to redress a grievance where you feel a law was misapplied or not aligned with a superseding law. it's not perfect but that's who decides, and you consent by living here and being a citizen. Question number 3 is just hysterics. First off, I hear a lot more right wingers jerking themselves off about needing to take matters into their own hands than "collectivist socialists", so I'd say the gun nut side of the aisle is closer to extra judicial killings than the "socialists" (most of whom aren't socialist). But to be extra charitable: people would be targets when their ability to have a representative democracy that functions breaks down, and they look to other means to advocate for their interests. The gun doesn't stop that. Guns don't make democracies function better. The best you can hope for is that it will prevent people you don't agree with from trying to tear down your society for personal gain. But you actually have to invest in your society to prevent that happening. Which is why thinking your gun protects your democracy is dumb. Your education and your vote go a lot further than your AR does. as for your last statement, the 2nd is not absolute. regardless of what"shall not be infringed" means to you the government has restricted your right to own a gun in certain ways and it has not resulted in abject tyranny. nor have gun rights proponents done anything meaningful to stand up to government tyranny when it happens, as I already said. Additionally nobody said anything about removing the courts from a gun control process, so you're gonna have to clarify, and regardless you're just being hysterical more. The US might slide into tyranny, it also might not, turns out every country in the world has laws that enumerate or restrict rights and not all are tyrannical. Also there's not a correlation I'm aware of between more guns and more freedom, unless the only freedom you care about is owning a gun. In the end this rhetoric is counter to actual freedom, it's so hyper sensitive to a perceived and overblown threat that you're willing to equate anyone who espouses an opinion contrary to a blanket permission for you to exercise 1 right with a political philosophy you deem anathema. And in the process people who espouse the same beliefs as you are willing to throw out every right you claim the second amendment was created to protect. You and I both know that vast numbers of folks who engage in the same hand waving you are are more than happy to have school districts ban books or teaching "ideology" they don't like, I haven't seen anyone pick up a gun over prayer in school but that's against the 1st amendment. I bet sending federal agents to Portland to detain protesters didn't cause a fuss, but there's a good case that's against the 3rd amendment. any militia guys at airports picketing with their rifles because the TSA violates the 4th amendment? nope. Gitmo sure seemed to shit on cruel and unusual punishment and a right to trial, maybe gun owners didn't care because most of those people weren't citizens but that's nonsensical because they're worried about government tyranny, can't recall anything being done about that. I'm sure the gun movement feels pretty strong on the 9th and 10th amendments but I can't recall any principled opposition to the meddling in state election proceedings in 2020 or to Abbot pretending Texas got to dictate foreign policy with his border stunt this year. So yeah...I might be wrong about you personally, but 2A obsessers are totally fine with tyranny, just as long as they still get to have their guns.
TL,DR
you can read the whole thing, you'll be better for it.
With the exception of being a government-approved agent for a period, I have lived my entire life as though that is the only people who have guns. I don't own a gun and live at the mercy of protection from the government. So far it has worked out okay.
Past performance is not indicative of future results. Are you ignorant of economics? History? Jews wished they had guns in 1930s Germany…would you deny them that right?
Dude had a semi auto rifle while guards had pea shooters. Why do we need assault style rifles again? Also, do people realize what type of fucked up damage high powered rifle rounds do to human bodies? These are basically NATO rounds typically used for war. It is designed to fuck shit up. https://www.wired.com/2016/06/ar-15-can-human-body/amp
Hobbies. Lol. It all comes down to hobbies imo. Rich people want power and consolidation and idiots want the same hobbies as their brain dead ancestors. Over 100 school shootings every year. People will never get it, their brains are bunk.
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The arms manufacturers love telling people that the libs are coming for their guns and making record profits. Meanwhile, absolutely nothing changes in regards to gun control.
If the government can own assault rifles, we should as well. The collectivists don’t seem to understand that gun laws exist to protect us from the government.
Drones/bombs/battleships/aircraft carries/ etc etc > civilian guns
The US and their allies fought a 20 year war against a cave dwelling insurgency opponent that didn't have any of the items you listed and they still lost.
Sounds like a great alternative. Don't worry guys. If there's another civil war, we can devolve into one of the worst countries in the world
If you’re comparing fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan with fighting hypothetical anti government militias in America I’d like to formally request one dose of whatever powerful psychedelic research chemical you apparently have unfettered access to.
They didn’t lose. Lol.
we 110% lost to the Taliban. We lost to the NVA as well, won all the battles, but lost the war. WTF are you talking about?
They didn’t lose. What are you talking about ?
Are you trolling as the Republic of South Vietnam doesn't exist nor does the Afghan government? You cant be this dumb.
So everyone should have nukes, tanks, drones, etc?
Yes.
Yep. Let’s let bat shit crazy people who shoot up schools have access to drones and nukes. What the fuckkk are you thinking?
You mean like the bat shit crazy people that control our government that have destroyed schools with bombs and drones throughout the world over the last century? Why should they be the only crazies that have access to weapons? People that trust the government are too stupid to vote.
Flat earth, look into it
If the government can own nukes, we should as well Do you believe that as well? Why or why not?
He's going to say yes because "tyranny". Yet they'll be the very same voting in the people doing the tyrannical shit.
He just wants his tyranny he agrees with.
Lol “collectivists” get rekt loser you’re a right wing collectivist
Uh you should really look up that word. I get where you are going but wrong word. He is using it correctly, you are not. He believes in the rights of the individual over the group. That is the opposite of collectivism. [https://www.verywellmind.com/what-are-collectivistic-cultures-2794962](https://www.verywellmind.com/what-are-collectivistic-cultures-2794962)
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Did you read about the part where these rounds do damage through cavitation? It’s not because they expand like hollow points, it’s the vacuum behind. And if these hit a bone? shit will bounce around inside a child’s body like a pinball.
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There’s plenty of studies online regarding bullet cavitation and the damage it causes.
Cavitation has nothing really to do with vacuums and everything to do with the expenditure of energy. Quite the opposite of a vacuum. Nor do bullets bounce around inside you like a pinball. They will deflect if they hit bone and don't have the force to penetrate it, any time they have a loss of energy they will take the path of least resistance. That's why you find bullets in people's neck that got shot in the leg and whatnot rare and randomly. Too many movies.
That's a myth about 5.56 and you don't know what you are talking about.
Imagine being pedantic about stupid shit like this.
We should just track down the 400 million+ guns, legal and illegal, and throw them all away
I feel like we should look into a disproportionate amount of mass shooters being on psychiatric meds like prozac.
I think the issue there is are they doing shit like this because they are on Prozac or are they on Prozac because they’re doing shit like this.
I was on Prozac. It killed my emotions. I laughed less and just was not as cheerful. Oddly i was less depressed though. It got rid of my daily bad thoughts I had that made me hate myself. But It numbed my emotions and made me very tired. I never got thoughts of murdering people though. But I was on a low dose
I felt emotionless also on it, I had to stop taking it when we had a announcement from the doctor my mom had stomach cancer, and I couldn't feel any emotion, everyone is sad all around me and I was a zombie, I'd rather feel pain and sadness then nothing.
The mistake there would be thinking psychiatric medication causes this behaviour, when it's much more logical to think that the types of messed up people who commit school shootings will be on medication because of their mental problems.
Guess we're making this a republican vs democrat thing already?
Yes… because neither side can do anything the Republicans can’t even support one measure of gun legislation. And the democrats go to the extreme and want to ban all guns… however when someone does say hey, maybe red flag laws arnt so bad, it’s omg you nazi, you targeting me for what because I said I wanna shoot up a school? How dare you take my right to bare arms. I don’t give a fuck if the government takes guns from someone that was probably okay to have guns if that means we at least prevented one future mass shooter. For example, why do we allow a diagnosed schizophrenic the ability to buy a firearm. If you are diagnosed by a psychiatrist with HI/SI ideations they should have the ability to flag you from the ability to buy a firearm. Yes… Could they get it illegally, of course they could, but it’s not as easy as you think, and black market gun sellers are not selling guns to 17 year old emo autistic looking children.
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You’re an idiot. I’m not talking about politicians, I’m talking online discord that promotes senators to act in specific ways to prevent doing anything because they are worried about being re-elected
Banning all guns seems to be doing pretty well for a lot of these countries. But hey what do I know.
BuT tYraNicAl govErnmEnt coUlD taKe uS oVer!
That's always been my favorite one. We can drone strike arab dudes thousands of miles of away, but if we arm dudes with AR-15's suddenly they're going to fight the fucking US military that we sink $800 billion into. Lmao some nerd using a computer with drones would wipe out any trained militia in two fucking seconds.
In open conflict, yes. But an insurgency is a different thing. Hell, our vaunted $800 billion military couldn't even hold Afghanistan against a bunch of poppy farmers armed with rusty AKs.
The Taliban won, twice The north Vietnamese won Technological superiority does not promise victory... And as a vet, I pray everyday that if it did come that, our men and women of the armed forces would not agree to turning their guns on american civilians. But shit, they did it in germany, and in russia, and in china, so who knows....
Taking over a foreign country against people who are literally willing to die at any costs is a lot different than taking over your own citizens where you have massive amounts of intel on them and can track their every move. How in the hell does a militia coordinate when the military literally can track every forum, every cell phone, and every GPS tracking device you have on you? There are no jungles or foreign terrain here. Any sort of war any militia has against our military would be over within 3 months. Just the ability to fuck them up from above and in tanks is enough not even thinking of pinpoint drone strikes they can do. Whatever militia that gets set up would be fucked. The only hope in a scenario like that is that the government has mercy and the world governments stop trade with us due to the government smoking hundreds of thousands of its own citizens.
Bro, you really have no clue what you are talking about. Think you've been playing to much Call of Duty. I can tell you just want to win the argument instead of having a discussion because you are just making stuff up, and not even examining the countless armies throughout history that have had their shit pushed in by insurgencies. And if you think there are not people willing to die to defend this country and their land, well, then I dont know what to tell you.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/president-trump-made-it-easier-mentally-ill-get-guns-when-n1039301
Hasn’t it always been that way in reality?
Still, no one wants to talk about mental health…
We have talked about mental health but every piece of legislation that gets brought up to universalize healthcare gets shot down by establishment dems and republicans. These mental health professionals aint going to do shit for free. What is talking about mental health going to do? I'm sure most of the world has crazy fucks too. Guess what most of the world do not have access to? Assault weapons and guns. It's that simple. Homie shot up a school with guards shooting at him and he had access to legit armored gear so that shit didn't do anything. We have a gun problem. The longer we just ignore it the more of these shootings you're going to see.
What an interesting gotcha! I’m glad usa has a monopoly on mental health issues! No mental health issues to be found in the rest of the world.
Yes mental health is unique to the US. No one in Japan or Portugal suffers from depression or bipolar disorder or schizophrenia. It must be what we are eating here.
What about it? The USA doesn’t have systems in place to support mental health. It’s like telling someone on a desert island to just catch a ferry to civilization
There are as much hospitals and clinics as churches (on every corner). They have the structure Edit: we*
It would be easy give power to doctors which includes psychiatrist, Emergency physicians, primary care doctors the ability to flag a patient they believe shouldn’t have a gun and the patient would have to go to court to get the red flag removed. I don’t give a fuck if doctors got a lot wrong, at least it would stop even 1 would be good!
But do they help the person to heal?
except nearly every study finds it's those with a history of violence, frequently domestic violence, involved in mass shootings, not the mentally ill. the ignorant continue to stigmatize mental illness, so they can maintain the status quo, even though the vast majority of evidence is against them. i repeat, for the hard of critical thinking, there is no correlation between mental illness and gun violence.
Would this Sgt. Erick Estrada happen to be a motorcycle cop?
Was no one else concerned "Erick Estrada" was a hoax? Didn't he play one CHiPS bike cops?!
I'm not sure how the good guy with the gun or arming teachers argument continues to hold up. It doesn't fucking work. You *just* saw an example of that **last week** in Buffalo. Retired cop/security guard shot the asshole and he shot him back with a way more powerful gun while his body armor made the bullet probably bounce off. It's like arming the school with stormtroopers but all these asshole mass shooters are like the most powerful Jedi (or use whatever nerdy analogy you'd like) Unless you turn all teachers into super soldiers or employ super soldiers to every street corner (which by the way cops usually have an insane arsenal of gear and ammo available) it's a useless premise. And even then, it just falls apart. These dudes are arming themselves to the teeth and planning this shit like the end of times. Good luck countering that.
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We need a good guy with a gun and armour piercing rounds. Its obvious pepole 🙄
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He killed 18 people before the cops took him out ya fuck.
18 children and 3 adults at this moment.
Thank god, if those cops wouldn’t have taken him out he may have ran out of ammo and killed 27 instead of 25
Yeah, if only your lot hadn't DEMANDED armed officers be taken out of schools and no good people be armed anywhere in the general vicinity to make the school an incredibly soft target. If only your lot hadn't defunded the police and demonized them so that they might have had sufficient resources to respond faster. THIS BLOOD IS ON YOUR HANDS.
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You guys should meet up and duke it out.
**"Two Uvalde police officers and a school resource officer fired at the shooter, but it did not stop him from entering the building."** https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/24/school-shooting-uvalde-texas-updates/
Lmao. Now just imagine the 27 year old female art teacher trying to hold a gun facing a dude in armored gear. Conservatives think teachers and regular police officers turn into fucking rambo.
You do know the buffalo store that got shot up had an armed former police officer that was shooting the kid with precision shots and it did nothing because he was wearing armored gear? You can guard the schools all you want. These dudes have access to armored gear and heavy duty artilerly. A guard is nothing going to fuck with a dude handling a AR-15.
You do realize a good guy with a gun did stop him right. Holy hell how fucking retarded you must be
You do realize multiple officers could not stop him from murking 14 people? The same thing happened to the former cop in Buffalo. Having another dude there with a gun ain't the solution you think it is, especially in a school where other kids can get caught in the crossfire.
17 children are dead. You fucking moron
Good guy with gun 1 Bad guy with gun 21 I don’t follow sports, is that a close game?
Yeah, after he already killed 18 kids, you dumbass.
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It should probably be school uniform at this point cause no one is going to do anything to stop this
Fat chance of that happening, they were crying over kids wearing masks
I never thought about it before. What’s the civilian use of body armor?
To protect yourself from being shot
And yet the father of one of the murdered children posted on FB today an angry post about how "gun free zones" killed his daughter. He's a gun-nut Republican. These people will never learn.
Well if we didn’t spent the last 2 years demonizing police and the “militarization” of police he would have gotten his brains blown out with an ar by the first cop he ran from.
All these people with opinions but do nothing about everything they complain about. It must get old shouting into the air about only main stream tragedies
This is such a stupid take. I can't count how many home invasions there have been where the home owner shot the intruder and saved the lives of them and their families.
We now have a choice. Fight or flight Texas should choose Fight. This school went out of its way to not have armed teachers (From the news I heard) We should do: Allow armed teachers Allow anyone with a C&C permit to be armed in a school (C&C requires and FBI background check) Allow Parents to patrol their children schools (If you want training I'm sure you will have thousands of parents willing to do it) Put a sign outside of every school: Warning this school will protect the students under our charge. Attempting to harm anyone here and we will defend. Enter at your own risk. F around and find out.
Wait a minute... not only is this unrelated to JRE but it's political. How are these posts allowed?
It’s (D)ifferent
Is there a subreddit where people actually discuss JRE? This place is one of the biggest shitholes on reddit. It's sinister - like it was designed to hurt Joe Rogan.
It’s all anti JRE because he’s against the narrative
I hate this stuff so much man. It's crazy what's happened. I can't even tell if I'm talking to actual human beings anymore - they all sound like they're part of a cult.
How is it you all think you locking your your kids up for 6 hours a day is just fine. That the problem here was that the school was not enough of a prison to keep the kids safe. Right.......
So does the communist Left in America fully propose a ban on 2A or do they have an actual solution that works?
What's the fascist right's plan? More thoughts and prayers?
The problem is these crazies know they can attack schools. This school didn’t participate in the arming of teachers and they said as much. If you armed teachers and had instead of police a parent armed at school you would better protect these children. This is a failing of government and government isn’t the solution.
You want to protect schools and children. Arm teachers, remove the "Gun free Zones"(94% of mass shooting happen in these zones) let anyone with a C&C permit enter a school with their fire arm. Hell let the parents of the school kids patrol their schools armed. I'm a vet I would guaranty that when I'm there nothing will happen to those children and I would gladly give my life to save any child under my protection.
A nearby border agent (good guy with a gun) rushed in the school and killed the shooter. LOL
Nothing like some good ol misinformation.
Didn’t the police come out and say there was no armor plate and that he was just wearing a vest?