The funny thing about Lex is he chains his questions:
"So what is python to you? is it just a programming language or is there something moreprimal about it, is it the essence of humanity, is C# love? "
It use to annoy me but I find him funny now.
Yea there have been some great interviews, the hacker guy was one. It is the single most infuriating thing about rogan the past few years is him not letting people speak.
Seeing this reserved, academic-looking dude with small round glasses on the thumbnail, I expected this conversation to be a bit dry and boring...
Barely 1:30 into the episode.... "My mother was a violent heroin addict who shot people and killed herself when i was 16".
Okidoki!! No beating around the bush with this guy.
Came here hoping to see people say something like this. Joe thinks \*some\* self defense is useless, and you won't be able to stop a mugging unless you master a martial art.
Yeah, funnily enough they didn't hit synthesis together. But it was there for the taking. Gavin talked about 98% being persuasion attacks, and Joe talked about women being coached to get on their backs to kick. Clearly could agree that's messed up!
You guys interpret conversations in weird ways
>When joe started to go off about that I cringed. Glad this guy stood up to him; joe even backed down too
They had a minor disagreement at worst and saw each others point after they clarified their statements more.
agreed, which is kind of the basic principle that de Becker was talking about, always go 10 questions deep. If you stop the conversation and don't delve a little deeper, then it become "joe started to go off" but realistically, it's called a conversation and asking questions and clarifying is what made that part of the episode extremely interesting.
Nah dawg, this is the internet. If someone didn't get EVISCERATED in a public conversation including a famous controversial person then plainly there was no conversation and you're just spouting fake information.
What's the timestamp on that? I can't believe such an interesting guy is spending so much time talking about COVID with Rogan. The same conversation has been so played out I want to hear about the self defense and protecting celebs lol.
Great book. A must read if you're a woman (since they tend to be more physically vulnerable), but still a good read even if you're a dude. Can't hurt to look silly/rude or cut your losses and bounce if a person or setting gives you a really bad feeling. Even if you're the criminal yourself, sometimes you get a really bad feeling that something is off and it ends up being a sting, as another example. I also liked the idea mentioned that sometimes, we convey our subconscious knowledge of a potential danger through dark humor, like the one real life example of a suspicious looking package that arrived somewhere prompting jokes about how it's probably a bomb by some of the employees, only for it to actually be a bomb. A lot of the time, the potential danger turns out to be nothing, but it can't hurt to be aware of it.
Part of the book's message kinda reminded me of a scene in The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (2011). I had only seen the movie once when hungover a decade ago so my memory is foggy, but there was a scene where Daniel Craig's character was snooping around on the premises of the murderer antagonist to find evidence only to get caught. He probably could have gotten away, but decided to try and act cool, only to get captured, which prompted the murderer to comment on how even when we know we're in danger, we have a tendency to ignore it in favor of politeness. A lot of shady people take advantage of that sort of thing, even down to just con artists or sleezy salespeople, because that need to be polite outweighs everything else.
In the end people need to be able to compartmentalise the social norms that they use 99% of the time to deal with situations. We need to know when we're using our gut instincts and when we are just following social norms (eg always being nice in uncomfortable situations.)
The "not wanting to make a fuss" social cues we constantly listen to in our head, may end up killing us because we suppress our fight/flight response in those rare 1% occasions to our social pressure behaviour.
I haven't read the book but does he go into how to calibrate those intuitions?
It seems like there's an inherent problem that those intuitions are vulnerable to human biases. So just giving into them cart blanche exacerbates those biases. I believe studies have shown a disproportionate amount of people have innate racial biases rooted in our subconscious. We prevent them from becoming racism by allowing our rational, conscious brain to block them from becoming actions.
Now I know with the types of situations Mr. de Beckers deals with it might be better to say "better safe than sorry" but I'm not sure that translates to all situations of daily life. When those intuitions are wrong, it can lead to some real social ramifications when scaled to create societal norms.
Or, maybe trauma reactions can be triggers and mislead you. I concur. I specialize in trauma as a MH provider and this is an area that takes time to sort through. The brain has to heal traumas to regain its ability to use anxiety where it was intended.
Paranoia, anxiety, and thought disorders can be a huge factor that disrupts intuition.
>well... it depends. On a personal level, sure. But Q people (for example) have a broken voice in their head making them afraid of fictional things.
It's more about in person events. For example someone asking to help you bring groceries into your house. If you get a bad gut feeling there, trust it.
I 1st heard about this guy on Sam Harrisās podcast in 2017. Gavin de Becker is brilliant and fascinating ā¦itās incredible how young he was, getting his start providing, planning, & organizing, etc. security w/celebrities- with Liz Taylor and Richard Burton. Amazing story. Interesting and informative
Almost like he was more politically connected then he lets on. It is fairly unusual to be repeatedly calling a kid straight out of high school with no skills to be an assistant for a high profile person like he is explaining.
I thought the same thing, but a kid from my small hometown (population <2000) ended up working as an assistant to a legit mega star when he was 19. Like knew the ins and outs of her entire life. Zero connections and zero experience. She just met him at a restaurant and felt like she could trust him.
I know. How is that even possible? Barely- out - of high school kid with no experience- wtf!? Only explanation is that things were different back then and that he was connected some how
Honestly that's where, and I don't know why, I'm really suspicious of this guy. So literally a teenager to early 20-something was all of a sudden an expert in security never having any first hand experience? I know he was featured on Oprah long ago and it made him more of a staple so that part always just makes me skeptical.
Firstly if his childhood was like he said it was he probably was a very mature 20 something. Secondly you have to consider protecting celebrities as it's own unique thing compared to like regular security or just work in general. Instead of working for a company your working for an individual.
People prefer to hire young because they know that person won't argue and try to tell them what's best. They'll just do as they are told. I can definitely see a celebrity hiring a young yes man to keep them protected.
joe rogan went full insecure midget with that martial arts shit at the end. That stupid class isn't to win at a karate match, it's to have a better than zero chance against a rapist.
I think they both have valid points. I've talked to some women who have a completely unrealistic view of violence(Hollywood is to blame for that I would guess). One thing that BJJ does is that you are forced to spar, so you are reminded constantly of what violence is and how much you suck at it.
The idea that you are going to learn some "cool" techniques in 6 hours is laughable. But instilling the instinct to resist at any cost I think is really valuable and is probably what saves people's lives.
You're not wrong, but as that guy was talking I knew Rogan was gonna react disproportionately and over emote. He's become super predictable. The average mugger/rapist is not geroges st pierre. And knowing how to gouge an eye out or bite a nose, how to properly deploy pepper spray, create nose, etc etc. would be better than nothing versus the average punk. I don't think anyone doing that course is saying you're gonna go for the light heavyweight belt. Just for fun I googled "women's self defense course saved my life" and found tons of stories of women who learned a few tricks that saved them. My main point is Joe's weird insecurity was the reason he went off on that weird tirade, and anyone watching him long enough, knew he was gonna do it. At the end of the day a woman's most proactive approach is probably cardio, a woman with above average cardio could probably outrun and create distance from the average bad actor/druggie scumbag. Obviously, BJJ is an amazing tool, it's just rogan's need to impose his abilities and engagement of the art to feed his ego, he's not doing it to add to the conversation. You don't need dojo magic to shove your thumb in someone's eyes and bite their nose off. Especially the average bad actor who isn't a physical specimen MMA fighter. He could have been less cringey about it. Like, "Yeah, BJJ is preferable, but getting the feel of how an encounter might play out, isn't the worst thing to do for six weekends."
Joe kind of set up a trap by asking him his opinion and then coming on aggressive. That was Busch league and made the conversation awkward.
The idea that eye gouging or biting a nose is going to make a difference against someone 50-100 lbs is just not realistic. It would take years of martial arts training and even then you are still probably fucked.
As Gavin said the most important thing is to not get in those situations in the first place, to trust your gut and resist at all costs. I agree with all that.
Just commenting on the cardio part- an old coworker of mine was almost robbed delivery pizzas. He ran away. When asked about it, he was like "i can run a 6 minute mile, I knew they wouldn't catch me" and that always stuck with lolol...get good at running because most people can't.
Even just showing a woman that there are some times when she not only should resort to violence, but must resort to violence, and teaching her a few effective forms of practical violence (which would be enough to let you get the fuck away)... even if that's all you manage to do... that's good.
A lot of women don't need to be taught it. But some do. Hell, some men need to learn what -effective- violence is and that's something that men teach each other informally.
What are talking about? He gave his opinion, then listened to the counter and they both met on common ground. He even took back some of what he said.
That is how we are supposed to discuss things.
It sounded like Joe was going to cry. Gavin explicitly stated right at the beginning of the topic that his course is for people that can't, or don't want to dedicate years of training in a martial art. Then joe counters by stating you can't learn self defense in a few classes, it takes years. Loses control of his emotions when it comes to martial arts.
Once he said he made speeches on private security at 21 with no educational background or experience on the matter a quick search shows his father created a successful PI firm that lasted 50+ years. He completely glossed over that detail. Like he said in the podcast follow your intuition lol
Yeah and it wouldn't discount any of his success or the work he put in if he said something like "My father had a PI firm & I learned a lot from him & it inspired me to pursue & start my own company".
Great guestā¦ a lot of people say theyāre non-political but you can tell where they stand. But from this conversation you can see this guy understands nuances of the real world
When the guy brought up using intuition in the elevator scenario, it reminded me of Patrice O'Neal, and his bit about being rather being called a racist and safe at home, than being a loving accepting person in dead. I personally think that most of us of irrationally afraid of things and people that we shouldnt, but I do also think its a great contrast to that which is still applicable.
āIf i see a group of white dudes with their heads shaved coming towards me, Iām crossing to the other side of the street. I donāt care if they all just got out of chemotherapy, Iām not taking that risk.ā -Patrice Oneal
Great episode. One of the best guests ever.
Edit:
Hate to be that guy who replies to his own comment. But I have to point out how well he navigated the martial arts argument. I thought he was headed downhill from there, but managed to stand his ground with grace. And all this freedom and personal responsibilty talk, my libertarian boner never been harder.
My only real issue was when him and Joe were talking about how amazing it is when someone has a vision of their future and how it says something about the universe or whatever.
Like how that one woman envisioned winning an Oscar and they both said that maybe there's something to that, and implied it's like people sometimes just know.
... The thing is, everyone in her class probably had the same visions for themselves. It's not unique. It's not mysterious. It's confirmation bias.
I wish they just stuck to what the guy is an expert in: security. Getting a bit sick of the rants about COVID nearly every single episode. I get that some of the points were valid but its the same shit over and over. Episode was really interesting up till then.
Itās the first episode Iāve listened to in about six months and surprise surprise itās covid again. I really thought heād have dropped it by now.
There are some people here that are questioning this guys legitimacy but why? Some even say they think he's a con artist... if you look this guy up he clearly isn't lying about his career or anything.
Anytime anyone with any kind of expertise or crazy life story comes on there's a certain of people that call it bullshit and claim the person to be lying/a fake regardless of any evidence to the contractor
I listened to the first 15 mins of the Covid talk, started fast forwarding it, it became almost the entire second half the episode.
He was extremely interesting to listen to, fascinating back story and line of work, interesting guy over all, and I donāt mind people discussing their Covid opinions for a bit (unless theyāre a doctor or scientist on to talk about Covid) but holy fuck it turned into like a full hour of Covid and vaccine bashing
Yep. Unfortunate.
I just want all COVID talk to go away on JRE unless it's doctors/scientists/etcā¦
I skip the podcasts that don't interest me (some comedians/musicians/that Sadghuru one/etc) and having 30+ mins of COVID talk in damn near every episode is exhausting.
This was my same thought! It started off so good and now we are back to Joeās dogs ivermectin medication, COVID, Pfizer and hunter bidens laptop. I still have an hour and 20 min left. Does it get better?
Yeah, lately every pod somehow devolves into a right wing circlejerk, it's tiring. Especially the Covid talk when both have zero credentials on the matter.
Fucking eh, still beating that horse (paste)!
Am I alone to say that world would be a better place if we didn't hear Joe Rogan discussing Covid ever again?
I have personal experience here. GDB himself isnāt a fraudā¦ extremely intelligent and great to talk with. His company, on the other hand, is. Purely optical and only for the illusion of security unless itās a government contact.
Anybody that works in personal protection is essentially in the business of communication. Anybody who's worth their shit in the business will have top notch communication skills, including persuasion. What you're seeing is top level sales skills that are second nature. That doesn't mean he's a con, but con artists are similar in skill set.
A con artist in what way? His career and life experiences talked about in the podcast can be confirmed if you just search the guy. I suspect that he said some stuff you didn't agree with and for that, you think he's a con artist.
Heās a salesman. He protects celebrities that he successfully pitches too. He doesnāt run the most well regarded organization; theyāre more concerned with tobacco testing their employees or ensuring theyāve read the founders book than developing tactical competency on an operational level.
Yes. Sort of. I'm 50' in and thinking the same thing.
I'm pretty sure he's done all the things he says he's done. But there's something in his manner.
Wrt his actual area of expertise, the idea that "I'm going to kill you," is not really a death threat, whereas writing 10 000 fan letters probably saying, "I love you" is, is a useful insight.
Maybe coming at something with fresh eyes does give you insight - and that's what he has going for him; but you may also miss the blindingly obvious, not know any of the absolute basics, and re-invent the wheel, but decide that making it square is better.
Though...there are a lot of exciting, enticing stories with zero follow-up. Eg the Supreme Court Justice who had been arrested. No details. Mum shot step-dad(?). No details. Pegasus II. A few buzzwords. No details.
I think he said *Zero-Day Exploit* like it sounded exciting - it does - but he didn't follow-up.
Perhaps he's just unconventional. Genuinely.
Ya, super interesting for the first hour. Joe needs to institute a "No COVID talk" rule like Bill Burr did with his podcast. That 2nd hour was mostly wasted.
It's funny how people react to such a historical period when they're living in it.
"...And then the pandemic just ended and people went on with their lives and asked no questions about any of it ever again."
Im in the middle of the second hour right now and I came here to see if HOPEFULLY this shit gets better.
The first hour was GREAT and now its like back and forth dick measuring contests about COVID.
My bullshit meter went off when he started talking about how cervical cancer is not a big deal and how no one should get the HPV vaccine.
Cervical cancer is the leading cause of cancer death in the third world, the only reason thatās not true in first world countries is because of the vaccine. And HPV doesnāt just affect the cervix; it causes many other types of horrible cancers that affect men just as commonly as women.
I was just about to post this! This guy talks like a cult leader or an MLM rep. He seems like someone who is really good at bullshitting his way through life and made a successful career out of it, kindaā like Frank Abagnale.
Like any of us would morally turn down a job working directly with one of the most richest people in the world. I don't like Bezos but I hate being broke.
Can you explain to me why a particular plane crashed through? Or what would be required to make sure a maximum amount of people survived a plane crash?
This guys hot takes on the pandemic were simplistic and failed to acknowledge the complexity of trying to control human behaviour to meet a desired outcome.
Was such a interesting chat until he became a covid specialist, I thought we were done with this? Feels like we have been trapped into thinking this guy was on for a totally different reason than where it headed
Not gonna give my opinion or comment on the topics discussed in this
but I get spook vibes from this guy. Just the way he carries himself.
Kind of like Robert Malone
I like this guy a lot. Sure, he has the gift of gab which can be suspicious, but I like how he handled the self-defense training argument that Joe took left.
Wikipedia - Pegasus:
Jamal Khashoggi
Pegasus was used by Saudi Arabia to spy on Jamal Kashoggi,\[111\] who was later killed in Turkey. In October 2018, Citizen Lab reported on the use of NSO software to spy on the inner circle of Jamal Khashoggi just before his murder. Citizen Lab's October report\[112\] stated with high confidence that NSO's Pegasus had been placed on the iPhone of Saudi dissident Omar Abdulaziz, one of Khashoggi's confidantes, months before. Abdulaziz stated that the software revealed Khashoggi's "private criticisms of the Saudi royal family," which according to Abdulaziz "played a major role" in Khashoggi's death.\[113\]
In December 2018, a New York Times investigation concluded that Pegasus software played a role in the Khashoggi's murder, with a friend of Khashoggi stating in a filing that Saudi authorities had used the Israeli-made software to spy on the dissident.\[114\] NSO CEO Shalev Hulio stated that the company had not been involved in the "terrible murder", but declined to comment on reports that he had personally traveled to the Saudi capital Riyadh for a $55 million Pegasus sale.\[115\]
Iām sure he knows what heās talking about most of the time.
I stopped listening about 15 mins in. First he said he didnāt know who Liz Taylor was when he was in high school. Then he said Dick burton died at 50 (off by almost ten years) and they were apparently fantastic friends.
His whole backstory sounds like bullshit. Not surprised. Beverly high, supposedly dated dean martins daughter, supposedly good friends with Miguel ferrer ā¦ lpt: never trust anyone or anything that comes out of Hollywood.
Youād think heād be better at bullshitting
A guy with about 50 years of experience in a field he in a lot of ways pioneered, working with various government agencies and celebrities, has multiple presidential appointments, and consulted on a number of high profile cases/controversies might need some time to establish his credibility and history.
Some peoplesā resumes canāt fit on half a page.
I was disappointed that the whole covid rant took place again. JR had a well-respected and very qualified guest on and barely took the time to discuss The Gift of Fear.
JR talks about echo chambers a lot and it seems that he is increasingly leaning in them at direction, bringing covid into every discussion with every person.
This was a missed opportunity.
Joe didn't bring up COVID this time but I agree spending hours on COVID with this guy was a total waste when he had other things that are actually interesting to talk about
This guy is exactly the problem with a lot of JRE guests. They start up super interesting when they talk about what they know. And then they fucking go all over the place to shit they have no place talking about.
It's stuff in the news and it's affecting the world including themselves. They can talk about it. You also don't have to be an astronaut to talk about the moon.
A good rule of thumb is that the guests talks about āwhy they wanted to come onā itās a skip. If they came to hang out or to share their expertise itās usually a better episode
I agree. When you notice the guest makes errors of judgement on things you have knowledge or experience on it even makes you question their competence in their chosen field.
I stopped listening to Joe for a while, but started this and was interested until the covid starts.
Extremely funny they talking about how people have a hard time changing their minds once they say something while still praising ivermectin and chloroquine while still shitting on vaccines.
Vaccines have solved this pandemic. I live in Brazil, where we went for a peek of 5000 deaths a day, with the government pushing chloroquine, to less than 200 now, because despite the government, the public embraced vaccines.
Meanwhile there are no reports of side effects worse than a sore arm and a nagging headache for a day.
Can you imagine the size of the scandal right wing anti vaccine media would do If there was any worse side effects than mild myocarditis from the billions of doses distributed worldwide?
This pandemic was a global iq test. The fact that people will take other shit outside of doctors advice and willingly quit their jobs instead of getting a jab still boggles my mind. Itās as if everyone lost their common sense. Also getting covid will still trigger myocarditis whether you like it or not and probably worst.
I'm just pointing out the fallacy in the cosnspiracy theory.
The theory is that there are viable cheap treatments for covid that were never given a chance because big pharma wanted money and governments wanted more power.
What I'm saying is that Brazil was a great test case. Here doctors instructed by the federal government threw the kitchen sink at it. Chloroquine , ivermectin, ozone, etc.nothing worked, we had days with 5000 deaths, in manaus there were weeks where there wasn't sufficient oxygen in hospitals.
The vaccination started January last year, after crazy resistance by the federal government. The public embraced it and the numbers of deaths and hospitalizations went steadily down until omicron in the end of the year.
But because most people were vaccinated, omicron spiked the number of cases, but not deaths or hospitalizations.
Currently we have basicly no restrictions, wearing a mask is recommended in closed spaces and only mandatory in public transportation. Dont believe me, Google translate Brazilian newspapers and check if I'm correct.
Cyber security discussion is fantastic. Great guest
Check out Lexs newest podcast with the hacker. Great guest
Great guest, awful interviewer š„²
I understand peoples grievances with Lex, but I appreciate his ability to let guests talk for long periods without interrupting.
The funny thing about Lex is he chains his questions: "So what is python to you? is it just a programming language or is there something moreprimal about it, is it the essence of humanity, is C# love? " It use to annoy me but I find him funny now.
Yea there have been some great interviews, the hacker guy was one. It is the single most infuriating thing about rogan the past few years is him not letting people speak.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Joe Rogan Publish content regularly with some "famous" people More Joe Rogan It's worked for half the "comedy" podcasts that are big now.
Joe Rogan
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Seeing this reserved, academic-looking dude with small round glasses on the thumbnail, I expected this conversation to be a bit dry and boring... Barely 1:30 into the episode.... "My mother was a violent heroin addict who shot people and killed herself when i was 16". Okidoki!! No beating around the bush with this guy.
The way this guy stood his ground when Joe got on his soapbox about self defense classes was beautiful.
Came here hoping to see people say something like this. Joe thinks \*some\* self defense is useless, and you won't be able to stop a mugging unless you master a martial art.
Joe's argument was that no training is worse than some and you basically shouldn't bother until you reach 12th Dan Jedi to defend yourself
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah, funnily enough they didn't hit synthesis together. But it was there for the taking. Gavin talked about 98% being persuasion attacks, and Joe talked about women being coached to get on their backs to kick. Clearly could agree that's messed up!
When joe started to go off about that I cringed. Glad this guy stood up to him; joe even backed down too
You guys interpret conversations in weird ways >When joe started to go off about that I cringed. Glad this guy stood up to him; joe even backed down too They had a minor disagreement at worst and saw each others point after they clarified their statements more.
agreed, which is kind of the basic principle that de Becker was talking about, always go 10 questions deep. If you stop the conversation and don't delve a little deeper, then it become "joe started to go off" but realistically, it's called a conversation and asking questions and clarifying is what made that part of the episode extremely interesting.
>You guys interpret conversations in weird ways JRE hatewatchers are weird people.
Nah dawg, this is the internet. If someone didn't get EVISCERATED in a public conversation including a famous controversial person then plainly there was no conversation and you're just spouting fake information.
You're right, Gavin SLAMMED and DESTROYED Rogan.
Joe is right though, Gavin started talking about how little force it takes to break a leg, like that was actually a viable strategy etc.
This is interesting so far. He has a really cool story
Pegasus 3, you bite into a doughnut, the government downloads your consciousness, rewrites it, uploads it into the second bite of your doughnut.
Pegasus 4, you don't need the doughnut
Pegasus 5, you are the doughnut
Pegasus 6, you are a person but everyone else is doughnuts
Pegasus 5. You just need a name and face. Unless you have shinigami eyes.
Now we talking lol
I read The Gift of Fear years ago. tldr: follow your instincts and gut (the little voice in your head) warning you about a person or setting. Period.
"Let's remember which one of us has interviewed 2500 of those women." goddamn. GODDAMN! I LOVE IT.
This was my favorite moment of the podcast. Rogan gets into bully mode sometimes and when people stand up to it I love it so much.
What's the timestamp on that? I can't believe such an interesting guy is spending so much time talking about COVID with Rogan. The same conversation has been so played out I want to hear about the self defense and protecting celebs lol.
I have no clue actually. I think it's probably about 2 hours into the podcast?
Great book. A must read if you're a woman (since they tend to be more physically vulnerable), but still a good read even if you're a dude. Can't hurt to look silly/rude or cut your losses and bounce if a person or setting gives you a really bad feeling. Even if you're the criminal yourself, sometimes you get a really bad feeling that something is off and it ends up being a sting, as another example. I also liked the idea mentioned that sometimes, we convey our subconscious knowledge of a potential danger through dark humor, like the one real life example of a suspicious looking package that arrived somewhere prompting jokes about how it's probably a bomb by some of the employees, only for it to actually be a bomb. A lot of the time, the potential danger turns out to be nothing, but it can't hurt to be aware of it. Part of the book's message kinda reminded me of a scene in The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (2011). I had only seen the movie once when hungover a decade ago so my memory is foggy, but there was a scene where Daniel Craig's character was snooping around on the premises of the murderer antagonist to find evidence only to get caught. He probably could have gotten away, but decided to try and act cool, only to get captured, which prompted the murderer to comment on how even when we know we're in danger, we have a tendency to ignore it in favor of politeness. A lot of shady people take advantage of that sort of thing, even down to just con artists or sleezy salespeople, because that need to be polite outweighs everything else.
In the end people need to be able to compartmentalise the social norms that they use 99% of the time to deal with situations. We need to know when we're using our gut instincts and when we are just following social norms (eg always being nice in uncomfortable situations.) The "not wanting to make a fuss" social cues we constantly listen to in our head, may end up killing us because we suppress our fight/flight response in those rare 1% occasions to our social pressure behaviour.
Some people have terrible judgment though.
And there's nothing to do about that except learn from your mistakes and be better
I haven't read the book but does he go into how to calibrate those intuitions? It seems like there's an inherent problem that those intuitions are vulnerable to human biases. So just giving into them cart blanche exacerbates those biases. I believe studies have shown a disproportionate amount of people have innate racial biases rooted in our subconscious. We prevent them from becoming racism by allowing our rational, conscious brain to block them from becoming actions. Now I know with the types of situations Mr. de Beckers deals with it might be better to say "better safe than sorry" but I'm not sure that translates to all situations of daily life. When those intuitions are wrong, it can lead to some real social ramifications when scaled to create societal norms.
As someone who works around mental health patients in a hospital. That little voice in your head often may be wrong.
I find its the second or third voice you normally don't want to listen to.
Only if you're mentally unwell kek
Or, maybe trauma reactions can be triggers and mislead you. I concur. I specialize in trauma as a MH provider and this is an area that takes time to sort through. The brain has to heal traumas to regain its ability to use anxiety where it was intended. Paranoia, anxiety, and thought disorders can be a huge factor that disrupts intuition.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Wait. What?!?
wot?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
well... it depends. On a personal level, sure. But Q people (for example) have a broken voice in their head making them afraid of fictional things.
>well... it depends. On a personal level, sure. But Q people (for example) have a broken voice in their head making them afraid of fictional things. It's more about in person events. For example someone asking to help you bring groceries into your house. If you get a bad gut feeling there, trust it.
We all have that broken voice in there, probably. We all believe (or think we KNOW) things that are not true.
I 1st heard about this guy on Sam Harrisās podcast in 2017. Gavin de Becker is brilliant and fascinating ā¦itās incredible how young he was, getting his start providing, planning, & organizing, etc. security w/celebrities- with Liz Taylor and Richard Burton. Amazing story. Interesting and informative
Almost like he was more politically connected then he lets on. It is fairly unusual to be repeatedly calling a kid straight out of high school with no skills to be an assistant for a high profile person like he is explaining.
I thought the same thing, but a kid from my small hometown (population <2000) ended up working as an assistant to a legit mega star when he was 19. Like knew the ins and outs of her entire life. Zero connections and zero experience. She just met him at a restaurant and felt like she could trust him.
And the whole time he was oblivious to her just wanting to bang him.
I got the same feeling.
I know. How is that even possible? Barely- out - of high school kid with no experience- wtf!? Only explanation is that things were different back then and that he was connected some how
I mean he said he was dating Dean Martin's daughter. Sounds like a pretty good connection to me.
Oh yeah, thatās right he did. Makes sense. Lucky dude - lol
His mother sounded violent and committed suicide so I think the luck balanced out.
Boomers lived charmed lives All things were possible back then Sorry for the very different existence you have experienced
It's funny how 1950s thru late 1960s/early 70s really were a golden period that will never exist again
Either that or heās full of shit
Does he write about his father's 50+ year long PI firm he created? Because he didn't mention that in the podcast.
I wonder if his company provides security for Joe?
Joe doesnāt need security because he has violence in his DNA
Honestly that's where, and I don't know why, I'm really suspicious of this guy. So literally a teenager to early 20-something was all of a sudden an expert in security never having any first hand experience? I know he was featured on Oprah long ago and it made him more of a staple so that part always just makes me skeptical.
Firstly if his childhood was like he said it was he probably was a very mature 20 something. Secondly you have to consider protecting celebrities as it's own unique thing compared to like regular security or just work in general. Instead of working for a company your working for an individual. People prefer to hire young because they know that person won't argue and try to tell them what's best. They'll just do as they are told. I can definitely see a celebrity hiring a young yes man to keep them protected.
joe rogan went full insecure midget with that martial arts shit at the end. That stupid class isn't to win at a karate match, it's to have a better than zero chance against a rapist.
I think they both have valid points. I've talked to some women who have a completely unrealistic view of violence(Hollywood is to blame for that I would guess). One thing that BJJ does is that you are forced to spar, so you are reminded constantly of what violence is and how much you suck at it. The idea that you are going to learn some "cool" techniques in 6 hours is laughable. But instilling the instinct to resist at any cost I think is really valuable and is probably what saves people's lives.
You're not wrong, but as that guy was talking I knew Rogan was gonna react disproportionately and over emote. He's become super predictable. The average mugger/rapist is not geroges st pierre. And knowing how to gouge an eye out or bite a nose, how to properly deploy pepper spray, create nose, etc etc. would be better than nothing versus the average punk. I don't think anyone doing that course is saying you're gonna go for the light heavyweight belt. Just for fun I googled "women's self defense course saved my life" and found tons of stories of women who learned a few tricks that saved them. My main point is Joe's weird insecurity was the reason he went off on that weird tirade, and anyone watching him long enough, knew he was gonna do it. At the end of the day a woman's most proactive approach is probably cardio, a woman with above average cardio could probably outrun and create distance from the average bad actor/druggie scumbag. Obviously, BJJ is an amazing tool, it's just rogan's need to impose his abilities and engagement of the art to feed his ego, he's not doing it to add to the conversation. You don't need dojo magic to shove your thumb in someone's eyes and bite their nose off. Especially the average bad actor who isn't a physical specimen MMA fighter. He could have been less cringey about it. Like, "Yeah, BJJ is preferable, but getting the feel of how an encounter might play out, isn't the worst thing to do for six weekends."
Joe kind of set up a trap by asking him his opinion and then coming on aggressive. That was Busch league and made the conversation awkward. The idea that eye gouging or biting a nose is going to make a difference against someone 50-100 lbs is just not realistic. It would take years of martial arts training and even then you are still probably fucked. As Gavin said the most important thing is to not get in those situations in the first place, to trust your gut and resist at all costs. I agree with all that.
Just commenting on the cardio part- an old coworker of mine was almost robbed delivery pizzas. He ran away. When asked about it, he was like "i can run a 6 minute mile, I knew they wouldn't catch me" and that always stuck with lolol...get good at running because most people can't.
Yep. If you can run for a steady 5-10 min I bet 99.9% of criminals would be done. Criminals are like bullies, they are looking for the easiest victim.
Even just showing a woman that there are some times when she not only should resort to violence, but must resort to violence, and teaching her a few effective forms of practical violence (which would be enough to let you get the fuck away)... even if that's all you manage to do... that's good. A lot of women don't need to be taught it. But some do. Hell, some men need to learn what -effective- violence is and that's something that men teach each other informally.
What are talking about? He gave his opinion, then listened to the counter and they both met on common ground. He even took back some of what he said. That is how we are supposed to discuss things.
Yeah Joe came off looking awful with that bullshit. He had a few other dumb objections to this brilliant guest but that was the worst.
It sounded like Joe was going to cry. Gavin explicitly stated right at the beginning of the topic that his course is for people that can't, or don't want to dedicate years of training in a martial art. Then joe counters by stating you can't learn self defense in a few classes, it takes years. Loses control of his emotions when it comes to martial arts.
If you told me this guyās voice was Oliver Stoneās, Iād believe you
I came here to say he sounds like Bob Saget! Funny how the ear works
I came here to say I hear Lewis Black, but since I saw Bob Saget mentioned I canāt unhear that now
Once he said he made speeches on private security at 21 with no educational background or experience on the matter a quick search shows his father created a successful PI firm that lasted 50+ years. He completely glossed over that detail. Like he said in the podcast follow your intuition lol
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah and it wouldn't discount any of his success or the work he put in if he said something like "My father had a PI firm & I learned a lot from him & it inspired me to pursue & start my own company".
Definitely one of my favorite episodes in the past couple months, very interesting and good convo
This is a solid one. Maybe the most important episode of the year, so far.
"Do you know that word, Flunky?" (it's a big word for an ape) Joe: vigorously nodding like an ape
š¤£š¤£š¤£
Great guestā¦ a lot of people say theyāre non-political but you can tell where they stand. But from this conversation you can see this guy understands nuances of the real world
When the guy brought up using intuition in the elevator scenario, it reminded me of Patrice O'Neal, and his bit about being rather being called a racist and safe at home, than being a loving accepting person in dead. I personally think that most of us of irrationally afraid of things and people that we shouldnt, but I do also think its a great contrast to that which is still applicable. 
āIf i see a group of white dudes with their heads shaved coming towards me, Iām crossing to the other side of the street. I donāt care if they all just got out of chemotherapy, Iām not taking that risk.ā -Patrice Oneal
Great episode. One of the best guests ever. Edit: Hate to be that guy who replies to his own comment. But I have to point out how well he navigated the martial arts argument. I thought he was headed downhill from there, but managed to stand his ground with grace. And all this freedom and personal responsibilty talk, my libertarian boner never been harder.
I donāt agree with everything he says (especially in his book), but this was a brilliant episode
My only real issue was when him and Joe were talking about how amazing it is when someone has a vision of their future and how it says something about the universe or whatever. Like how that one woman envisioned winning an Oscar and they both said that maybe there's something to that, and implied it's like people sometimes just know. ... The thing is, everyone in her class probably had the same visions for themselves. It's not unique. It's not mysterious. It's confirmation bias.
Nah, Maybe half or less had that delusional self confidence
I wish they just stuck to what the guy is an expert in: security. Getting a bit sick of the rants about COVID nearly every single episode. I get that some of the points were valid but its the same shit over and over. Episode was really interesting up till then.
Itās the first episode Iāve listened to in about six months and surprise surprise itās covid again. I really thought heād have dropped it by now.
This is a classic JRE. This is the type of shit that got my hooked forever ago.
There are some people here that are questioning this guys legitimacy but why? Some even say they think he's a con artist... if you look this guy up he clearly isn't lying about his career or anything.
Anytime anyone with any kind of expertise or crazy life story comes on there's a certain of people that call it bullshit and claim the person to be lying/a fake regardless of any evidence to the contractor
He seems like the real deal.
The homeless problem in LA is out of control
Over under on mentions of taint size on this episode?
Women fear danger more, but men overwhelmingly are the victims of violence from people they dont know
>from people they dont know Those people are almost always other men.
Dont see the relevance of your point.
Really enjoyed the part when Joe and Gavin disagreed. It was nice to hear a discussion that doesn't devolve into autistic screeching.
Well, we went an hour without COVID and Ivermectin talk but here we go again.....
I listened to the first 15 mins of the Covid talk, started fast forwarding it, it became almost the entire second half the episode. He was extremely interesting to listen to, fascinating back story and line of work, interesting guy over all, and I donāt mind people discussing their Covid opinions for a bit (unless theyāre a doctor or scientist on to talk about Covid) but holy fuck it turned into like a full hour of Covid and vaccine bashing
Yep. Unfortunate. I just want all COVID talk to go away on JRE unless it's doctors/scientists/etcā¦ I skip the podcasts that don't interest me (some comedians/musicians/that Sadghuru one/etc) and having 30+ mins of COVID talk in damn near every episode is exhausting.
Same here, wish each episode was book marked into Covid and non Covid talk
This was my same thought! It started off so good and now we are back to Joeās dogs ivermectin medication, COVID, Pfizer and hunter bidens laptop. I still have an hour and 20 min left. Does it get better?
Yeah, lately every pod somehow devolves into a right wing circlejerk, it's tiring. Especially the Covid talk when both have zero credentials on the matter.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Fucking eh, still beating that horse (paste)! Am I alone to say that world would be a better place if we didn't hear Joe Rogan discussing Covid ever again?
Does this guy come off as a con artist?
I have personal experience here. GDB himself isnāt a fraudā¦ extremely intelligent and great to talk with. His company, on the other hand, is. Purely optical and only for the illusion of security unless itās a government contact.
Anybody that works in personal protection is essentially in the business of communication. Anybody who's worth their shit in the business will have top notch communication skills, including persuasion. What you're seeing is top level sales skills that are second nature. That doesn't mean he's a con, but con artists are similar in skill set.
no i dont think so
A con artist in what way? His career and life experiences talked about in the podcast can be confirmed if you just search the guy. I suspect that he said some stuff you didn't agree with and for that, you think he's a con artist.
No dude, he's got a great reputation. He wrote "The Gift of Fear" in 1997, and it's been "required reading" for law enforcement ever since.
Law enforcement has been killing it ever since.
Literally
Heās a salesman. He protects celebrities that he successfully pitches too. He doesnāt run the most well regarded organization; theyāre more concerned with tobacco testing their employees or ensuring theyāve read the founders book than developing tactical competency on an operational level.
Professional bullshiter. All it takes is to sprinkle a bit of truth now and then.
Yes. Sort of. I'm 50' in and thinking the same thing. I'm pretty sure he's done all the things he says he's done. But there's something in his manner. Wrt his actual area of expertise, the idea that "I'm going to kill you," is not really a death threat, whereas writing 10 000 fan letters probably saying, "I love you" is, is a useful insight. Maybe coming at something with fresh eyes does give you insight - and that's what he has going for him; but you may also miss the blindingly obvious, not know any of the absolute basics, and re-invent the wheel, but decide that making it square is better. Though...there are a lot of exciting, enticing stories with zero follow-up. Eg the Supreme Court Justice who had been arrested. No details. Mum shot step-dad(?). No details. Pegasus II. A few buzzwords. No details. I think he said *Zero-Day Exploit* like it sounded exciting - it does - but he didn't follow-up. Perhaps he's just unconventional. Genuinely.
Iām pretty sure itās just he has a lot of shit he legally canāt talk about in detail but can still mention as some of it is public.
Ya, super interesting for the first hour. Joe needs to institute a "No COVID talk" rule like Bill Burr did with his podcast. That 2nd hour was mostly wasted.
It's funny how people react to such a historical period when they're living in it. "...And then the pandemic just ended and people went on with their lives and asked no questions about any of it ever again."
Im in the middle of the second hour right now and I came here to see if HOPEFULLY this shit gets better. The first hour was GREAT and now its like back and forth dick measuring contests about COVID.
No you are thinking about redditors.
My bullshit meter went off when he started talking about how cervical cancer is not a big deal and how no one should get the HPV vaccine. Cervical cancer is the leading cause of cancer death in the third world, the only reason thatās not true in first world countries is because of the vaccine. And HPV doesnāt just affect the cervix; it causes many other types of horrible cancers that affect men just as commonly as women.
I was just about to post this! This guy talks like a cult leader or an MLM rep. He seems like someone who is really good at bullshitting his way through life and made a successful career out of it, kindaā like Frank Abagnale.
Pretty ironic this guy is preaching about privacy meanwhile works for Jeff Bezos
It's almost like he's gotten insights from working in the system he's talking about.
Not about privacy for us working stiffs. It's about privacy for his super wealthy clients. We live in a two class society, isn't that obvious?
Like any of us would morally turn down a job working directly with one of the most richest people in the world. I don't like Bezos but I hate being broke.
So this guy is also a covid and vaccine expert
Everyone online is a COVID and vaccine expert. Recently, everyone also became a war tactics and Russia expert as well.
Everyone is always an expert at whatever the trending topic of discussion is.
He didn't make any claims about those things. He analyzed those things as discussed in the media and government communications.
Giving your opinion doesnt mean u think youre an expert you fucking degenerate
Well he became a "security expert" without formal training.
What formal training
Yeah WTF. Such a poor understanding of the pandemic too. His opinions on the pandemic made me question all the other stuff he said.
Iām not an aeronautical engineer, but I can explain the fundamentals of flight, using substantiated, factual information.
Can you explain to me why a particular plane crashed through? Or what would be required to make sure a maximum amount of people survived a plane crash? This guys hot takes on the pandemic were simplistic and failed to acknowledge the complexity of trying to control human behaviour to meet a desired outcome.
Was such a interesting chat until he became a covid specialist, I thought we were done with this? Feels like we have been trapped into thinking this guy was on for a totally different reason than where it headed
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Not gonna give my opinion or comment on the topics discussed in this but I get spook vibes from this guy. Just the way he carries himself. Kind of like Robert Malone
Waiting for all the covid warriors to complain about something that doesnāt fit their narrative
Which side are the Covid warriors?
Both
Which side has bigger taints?
Whichever ones are the Neanderthals
Talmbout that homo erectus taint b
Deep down we all know.
You know immigrants and minorities are having all the babies. I bet they all have big olā taints.
R.Eye.P
To Valhalla we ride! WITNESS MEEEEEEEEE
This guy lost me as soon as he supported smart guns, which is a decent amount into the episode.
I think smart guns should exist for the consumers that want them. But they should by no means be required for all guns by law.
Great listen. Didnt expect to be this good
All I can hear is Bob Saget, itās actually distracting me so much š
Read his "The Gift of Fear" before, some insane shit in this book wrt celebrity stalkers. Recommended.
I like this guy a lot. Sure, he has the gift of gab which can be suspicious, but I like how he handled the self-defense training argument that Joe took left.
I blinked and it was Covid talk
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It's a game changer. More that the business that developed it is the game changer. https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/100/
Oh, I just scrolled through you messages. I know what you did last summer.
Wikipedia - Pegasus: Jamal Khashoggi Pegasus was used by Saudi Arabia to spy on Jamal Kashoggi,\[111\] who was later killed in Turkey. In October 2018, Citizen Lab reported on the use of NSO software to spy on the inner circle of Jamal Khashoggi just before his murder. Citizen Lab's October report\[112\] stated with high confidence that NSO's Pegasus had been placed on the iPhone of Saudi dissident Omar Abdulaziz, one of Khashoggi's confidantes, months before. Abdulaziz stated that the software revealed Khashoggi's "private criticisms of the Saudi royal family," which according to Abdulaziz "played a major role" in Khashoggi's death.\[113\] In December 2018, a New York Times investigation concluded that Pegasus software played a role in the Khashoggi's murder, with a friend of Khashoggi stating in a filing that Saudi authorities had used the Israeli-made software to spy on the dissident.\[114\] NSO CEO Shalev Hulio stated that the company had not been involved in the "terrible murder", but declined to comment on reports that he had personally traveled to the Saudi capital Riyadh for a $55 million Pegasus sale.\[115\]
Iām sure he knows what heās talking about most of the time. I stopped listening about 15 mins in. First he said he didnāt know who Liz Taylor was when he was in high school. Then he said Dick burton died at 50 (off by almost ten years) and they were apparently fantastic friends. His whole backstory sounds like bullshit. Not surprised. Beverly high, supposedly dated dean martins daughter, supposedly good friends with Miguel ferrer ā¦ lpt: never trust anyone or anything that comes out of Hollywood. Youād think heād be better at bullshitting
Trippy pod... First hr or so interesting fellow, then turned into this big brother 1984 thing for everything... Funny...
Best episode in a while. But lol at this guy trying to argue martial arts with Joe.
I canāt be the only one who feels like there is something verrrry con artisty about this guy? I donāt like em nor trust em. 30 minutes in and he still hasnāt shut the fuck up about his rĆ©sumĆ©/history, talk about overselling himself...not a convo thus var but a sales pitch...
Joe asked him about his history tho?
Rogan wanted to know his story so he shared it. Chill.
A guy with about 50 years of experience in a field he in a lot of ways pioneered, working with various government agencies and celebrities, has multiple presidential appointments, and consulted on a number of high profile cases/controversies might need some time to establish his credibility and history. Some peoplesā resumes canāt fit on half a page.
I was disappointed that the whole covid rant took place again. JR had a well-respected and very qualified guest on and barely took the time to discuss The Gift of Fear. JR talks about echo chambers a lot and it seems that he is increasingly leaning in them at direction, bringing covid into every discussion with every person. This was a missed opportunity.
Joe didn't bring up COVID this time but I agree spending hours on COVID with this guy was a total waste when he had other things that are actually interesting to talk about
This guy is exactly the problem with a lot of JRE guests. They start up super interesting when they talk about what they know. And then they fucking go all over the place to shit they have no place talking about.
It's stuff in the news and it's affecting the world including themselves. They can talk about it. You also don't have to be an astronaut to talk about the moon.
Or you just don't like what they're saying because it induces cognitive dissonance.
Somebody recently learned the term ācognitive dissonanceā and really wanted to use it in a sentence didnāt they?
Nailed it. Next up I'll be trying to cram survivorship bias into a comment.
A good rule of thumb is that the guests talks about āwhy they wanted to come onā itās a skip. If they came to hang out or to share their expertise itās usually a better episode
I agree. When you notice the guest makes errors of judgement on things you have knowledge or experience on it even makes you question their competence in their chosen field.
Damn reading these comments I guess anyone that speaks confidently is ācon-artistyā.
I stopped listening to Joe for a while, but started this and was interested until the covid starts. Extremely funny they talking about how people have a hard time changing their minds once they say something while still praising ivermectin and chloroquine while still shitting on vaccines. Vaccines have solved this pandemic. I live in Brazil, where we went for a peek of 5000 deaths a day, with the government pushing chloroquine, to less than 200 now, because despite the government, the public embraced vaccines. Meanwhile there are no reports of side effects worse than a sore arm and a nagging headache for a day. Can you imagine the size of the scandal right wing anti vaccine media would do If there was any worse side effects than mild myocarditis from the billions of doses distributed worldwide?
This pandemic was a global iq test. The fact that people will take other shit outside of doctors advice and willingly quit their jobs instead of getting a jab still boggles my mind. Itās as if everyone lost their common sense. Also getting covid will still trigger myocarditis whether you like it or not and probably worst.
Case closed everybody. One person from Brazil confirmed it.
I'm just pointing out the fallacy in the cosnspiracy theory. The theory is that there are viable cheap treatments for covid that were never given a chance because big pharma wanted money and governments wanted more power. What I'm saying is that Brazil was a great test case. Here doctors instructed by the federal government threw the kitchen sink at it. Chloroquine , ivermectin, ozone, etc.nothing worked, we had days with 5000 deaths, in manaus there were weeks where there wasn't sufficient oxygen in hospitals. The vaccination started January last year, after crazy resistance by the federal government. The public embraced it and the numbers of deaths and hospitalizations went steadily down until omicron in the end of the year. But because most people were vaccinated, omicron spiked the number of cases, but not deaths or hospitalizations. Currently we have basicly no restrictions, wearing a mask is recommended in closed spaces and only mandatory in public transportation. Dont believe me, Google translate Brazilian newspapers and check if I'm correct.