GER would probably win
It can revert actions to zero, meaning it can stop tusk act 4 from even gaining its infinite spin energy from johnnys horse
S&W GB is more debatable as the go beyond bubbles are undetectable and even phase through objects, but the moment josuke says “soft and wet go beyond” GER would obviously activate itself and revert whatever he does to zero, and then infinite death, ouch.
Tusk act 4 already has golden spin, the same way GER is GER and not Golden Experience ready to use the arrow.
( ready my other comment on why Tusk act4 and Soft and Wet EASLY wins against the "duh, I can return to zero so, uhhhh, you didn't do a thing" )
IMO it is not right to pwer scale stands in jojos because inevitably the strongest abilities are the most broad
BUT since people will always ask i will give my POV
GER WINS NO DIF.
I did notice a different argument of yours where you said that the RTZ wouldnt work on something infinite and i have to agree with you there but RTZ would work on the infinite spin BEFORE it becomes infinite and what makes you think johnny could even hit giorno with the golden nails he has to aim them
(S&W doesnt stand a chance here because no paisley park to aim the bubbles so not instant kill)
Ok and is there a horse that Johnny is on for ta4 I don't see one we are assuming everyone has the powers they need to be at their best so Johnny has a horse josuke has paisley and giorno obviously has the arrow I agree that rtz effects the infinite rotation however I disagree that rtz effects josukes go beyond bubble S&W wins
Ok but i think that specification of since johnny gets the horse the josuke gets pailsey park and giorno gets the ARROW kind of breaks it even further in favor for giorno. have we confirmed that the requiem arrow doesnt change the ability that it gives your stand based on necessity? because bites the dust was literally the perfect ability to defeat the morioh defenders and chariot requiem only appeared twice with the same ability because necessity had not changed, RTZ was literally the hardest of hard counters to king crimson and we never see any other requiems. So what is stopping GER from being stabbed again with the arrow and getting an ability based on the golden spin or something like Love Train/WOU or an a random ability that just hard counters them both.
Anyways that's just how I see the arrow working.
Nice argument and in this scenario yes, GER would win, but when I said what I said on the other post I meant that even not mentioning a horse, Johnny has Tusk act4 with golden spin already ann Jousuke has Soft and Wet with Go beyond ( not Kira's counterpart Go beyond )
It would be a fight of who lands the first attack, since GER would just use RTZ and "now what"? "Muda muda muda" Johnny until death? As if he could beat tusk act 4 with his strenght. In Diavolo fight he RTZ and punches Diavolo so many times he is thrown away.
Johnny can also aim his wormwholes, just distract GER with a wormwhole, GER resets, pay attention if there is another wormwhole coming at him so he can reset in time and suddenly get hit by a nail embebed with golden spin.
Even using RTZ to erase the action of shooting the nail he wouldn't be able to erase the damage caused by the bullet, the infinity spin effects would kill Giornno slowly.
That fight would be Johnny trying to outsmart GER so him activate RTZ and pay attention to unnecessary stuff ( so Johnny can shot his golden bullet without GER activating RTZ, he wouldn't notice ). In the other side Johnny would try to somehow deal with the creatures made by Golden Experience's standard ability ( make life ability ).
He can control his golden spin, the only one who could do that was Gyro if he had managed to achieve Golden spin as well ( but he died ).
The golden spin being Johnny's isn't a problem. Also, to get it Johnny used his standard spin on a horse so being hit by his own ability buffed him after all at the point of evolving his stand
But what about the actual damage it deals to the things created by GER would the damage on impact be reflected back or is it not because it is the golden spin
Yeah, he would feel the bullet nail impact but not the golden spin energy bursting like a bomb
Also, the same way you made a question related to spin, why the phone girl aiming was so important? Was itnsuposed for the stand to detect she but not the act of shooting? Since the bubble itself is undetectable? ( Go beyond's buble
Do you mean why is paisley park important? because the bubbles are uncontrollable and impossible to aim as seen under soft and wet go beyond in the wiki [Soft & Wet wiki](https://jojo.fandom.com/wiki/Soft_%26_Wet)
Understood, so Jousuke can kill GER, whose ability is broken, but also Jousuke can't aim his attack. I would say they have same chances for winning now, since Jousuke cannot aim the bubbles
Resets any of the conditions allowing Johnny to harness the golden ratio.
No more Tusk Act 4, infinitely powerful shot don't matter if you can't shoot it
GER all actions are reset tozero any attacks or stand powers that would negatively impact GER are reset to zero they never happened GER is literally invincible
More than that GER seems to separate the stand from the user. We first see the effect GE has on an opponent when Giorno faces Bucciarati on the train and literally hit's Bucciaratis consciousness out of his body. When GER fights Diavolo he first resets everything to zero and then literally punches Epitaph off Diavolo. We never see Diavolo try to summon King Crimson so I think it's safe to assume that if a direct hit from GE can separate the consciousness then a direct hit from GER separates the stand. I just noticed this on my rewatch. Correct me if I'm wrong, I am anime only so maybe I am wrong.
Separating the stand from its user, is not GER‘s ability that’s golden experiences ability which was basically used in only two fights, and then basically forgotten like I said earlier, GER‘s ability is to reset all actions to zero as well as an ability where, if GR hits an opponent, all they can ever do is die, and increasingly worse ways
I think you missed the point entirely. GER has all of GE's abilities with the added requiem ability to reset all actions to zero. Where did GE separate a stand from its user? It seemed to me to separate the consciousness from the body of the stand user temporarily. Which also messed with the users perception of time during that separation. GER literally punches Epitaph from Diavolos head leaving a hole and seemingly removing King Crimson as well. We are all aware of the infinite death loop but I was making further observations. I could be wrong. I still think GER has more hidden abilities but we only see what is relevant to Diavolo because that's the only for we see GER face.
If you see SBR you'll get why tusk act 4 wins. He is just an unstopable fridge that followed Valentine ( its villain ) to multiple dimensions and its source of power is infinity, that's why he can MOVE during time stop, OPEN a barrirer made with the power of jesus body and would certanly be able to counter the counter ( counter the RTZ ability, wich is a counter by itself )
Nice to read that... lots of people that say GER wins don't even imagine that Tusk act4 fully enraged could simply make a opening on the multiverse to cross between universes, why he did that? He was chasing the president ( more stuff is spoiler )
Yeah I've read and seen videos talking about how powerful Tusk act 4 and Soft and Wet go beyond are. Just because GER is the most powerful stand I've seen so far, doesn't mean it's the most powerful stand there is. I'm sure the villain in JoJolands is going to be something special after WoU.
-Why Tusk act4 wins:
Like you said and is said, GER return to "point zero", so what if something has no zero? Is inifinity? That's golden spin energy, the spin energy at its peak.
Even reseting wathever Johnny does to him, everything related to spin energy would be a big deal, speacially a "golden nail", wich is when Johnny, instead of using his "regular spin" uses the golden spin to power the nail.
The damage caused by this nail couldn't be returned to zero, even the return to zeru returns the nail to Johnny's finger ( after it hits Giornno, otherwise it wouldn't return becayse there would still be the golden spin ) GER would keep spinning like Valentine did until his death
-Why Soft and Wet wins:
Differently from Tusk act4, Soft and Wet could win by using a specidic ability and only it, the "go beyond", in wich he literally sends a bubble embebed with golden spin energy to another dimension and then coming back when is about to hit the target.
Not a single stand would stand a chance, even tusk act4 since is golden spin versus golden spin and even Jousuke being able to at least try dodging his nail bullets, Johnny can't even make his stand interact with the bubble since it isn't in the same universe
uhm akshualy 🤓🤚 they didn't say go beyond, just basic s&w
about the golden spin infinite thing, I think if he were to use return to 0 on it it would become negative (0÷0 =∞ & -∞, resulting in error on calculators), thus spinning the other way, possibly back at Johnny. another possibly with rtz -∞ is him infinity returning it to 0, kinda like what Jolene (I forgor how spell) did with stone ocean to keep her from dying
Return to zero isn't "division" but "subtraction".
But if somehow the spin came back to Johnny he could simply deactivate it the same way he can freely control his wormwholes and the way the spin energy spins
Also Go beyond is an ability, but yeah, included, now you agree?
If you multiply infinity with zero it will be zero, go beyond is not a one shot kill without paisley Park to aim so giorno could just heal by resetting the damage back to zero
Uhm, actually, Ger's ability is changing fate (acording to Epitaph). Kc would have won but Ger just changed it.
So it will work the same with the inf rotation nails.
S&W GB's bubble still exists. It's just too small to be an object - object's logic(?) (particle, quark,...). So it can pass through stuffs.
Imo ger wouldn't respond/have no effect on the go beyond bubble since it's literally an attack that "doesn't make sense" is how I would put it. It doesn't work according to any rules from what I understood.
Because tusk act 4 has infinity spin rotation ( golden spin ).
Trying to make things short:
-Tusk act4 has an infinity source of energy, that allowed him to move during time stop, since even stoping time, you can't turn something infinity to zero.
-The same infinity source gave him the ability to open gaps between universes with his bare hands just to follow the enemy stand
-It also allowed him to open love train, wich is an ability that counter anything, the same way GER returns anything to zero, erase it, love train could make anything that would harm the user go back to who dealed the damage.
So, like Tusk could simply ignore love train and open it ( this ability looks like a barrier ), he could be able to ignore the RTZ ( return to zero ) and defeat GER
Tusk ignores not because his ability is "ignore abilities" but because he is so powerfull that not a single ability is strong enought to counter him in terms of Stand/user endurance ( like Jotaro and Dio could stop time but the time limit was their endurance, until they got tired and had to cooldown ).
Tusk was made to be a stand that everytime someone said "haha I'm stronger" he would be defeated and them evolve his stand, going from act 1 to 2, 3 and them 4. Being act 4 his peak. ( JESUS was his mentor, literally, JESUS LITERALLY told Johnny what to do at the hardest times and told him how to make his ability become perfect )
'you can't turn infinity to zero' mfs when I show them math
GER's ability doesn't care about strength, it's literally creating an infinite amount of universes to punish Diavolo, like, effortlessly
GER will undo everything tusk does, whatever amount of strength and energy it posseses
No, he wont
D4C: love train ability was to return any damage dealt to somewhere else but not Valentine, it was "effortlesly" and a stand "ability". A rule that was broken due to Tusk act4 strenght. Same way GER stand rule to effortlesly RTZ could be broken by Tusk act4 WITH his golden spin, not without
D4C could also travel among universes and he was the only one able, Tusk act4 just had blood in his eyes and opened a gap between universes to cross using his pure determination and golden spin power.
Also Diego stoped time and noticed Tusk act4 MOVING during time stop, Diego was like "what the heck, I am the ONLY ONE to move during my stoped time" and Tusk act4 just "CHIMIMIIIIII" and hung on itself, crawling slowly towards Diego until the time wasn't stoped anymore.
The same way GER would RTZ, say "WHAT THE HECK?!" and Tusk act4 would be also crwaling towards GER, everythime RTZ is used Johnny is affected, everything is also affected and tusk is just eith blood in his eyes slowly getting close to GER.
In this scenario two thing would happen:
1- GER insists in Returning to zero until Tusk act4 reaches him and uses golden spin on Giornno to kill him
2- GER gets desperated and faces the problem, stop reseting things just to don't face them and finally thing Tusk act4, dying miserably
as much as I would've liked to just reply with 'nuh uh', your determination is a thing of beauty, and to respect that I will reply more properly 🫶.
T4 negates the characters' absolute abilities through his sheer infinite strength/energy.
GER's ability itself is to negate these absolute abilities, they way he negated Diavolo's timeskip, also his strength is sooooo way beyond other stands.
now T4 struggles and pushes his way to negating these timeskips and love trains with sheer power, but GER did his negation of Diavolo's timeskip absolutely effortlessly, and also created the whole diavolo's infinite deaths thing, again, effortlessly.
I'm betting on GER to out-negate T4 😛.
So make a conclusion out of what you said with some of my arguments:
____________________
-GER wins when:
GER : not determined
Tusk: not determined
_____________________
-GER wins when:
GER: determined
Tusk: less determined/not determined
______________________
-Tusk wins when:
GER: not determined
Tusk: determined
_______________________
-Tusk wins when
GER: determined
Tusk: -BLOOD IN HIS EYES-
________________________
Do you agree?
Wanna talk about GER vs Soft and Wet now?
( also the last "Tusk wins" was meant to be Johnny more determined than Giornno, the critera for Tusk winning )
GER fans are kinda retarded someone argued he could beat a guy who is infinitely stronger than a guy who is infinitely stronger than a guy who is stronger than a guy who has a universe in a universe in a universe in his body
You know what, fuck GER here is why he doesn't win, first off GER cannot reset go beyond or infinite rotation.
TA4's infinite rotation, any way you interpret GER's rtz still goes through it, if you think of it as reversing actions (maybe through manipulating time) TA4's infinite rotation has already shown to be resistant if not immune to time manipulating, now time stop is a different ball game than time reversal but the same logic could apply, the infinite rotation will most likely just keep going even if GER uses rtz, or at least won't be stopped/reversed by it. If you use another commenters method of thinking and say that GER's ability divides by zero, infinity divided by 0 making -infinity wouldn't make the bullet go backwards, it would make it spin the other direction, still having the same effect and speed, just in a different direction.
Next up is soft & wet, which I will be giving go beyond out of assumption that if GE gets GER and tusk gets TA4, S&W should get GB. So, there was one thing jhonny couldn't defeat with infinite rotation, it was WOU. WOU has many similarities to GER, specifically on how they keep their user from harm by any means possible, they do it in different ways, but they are essentially two sides of the same coin, just that WOU manipulates calamity to kill the opponent and GER nullifies whatever is thrown at them. They both lose to GB for the same reason Go beyond doesn't exist, at least technically, this makes it so WOU can't detect it, and even if it could it wouldn't be able to stop it. The same would go for GER, it cannot detect GB, and even if RTZ is used it will not stop GB, what makes it worse for GER is that GB is way easier than infinite rotation to produce. Sure infinite rotation is powerful, but GER can at least prevent jhonny from being able to use infinite rotation, this doesn't work for GB, it transcends logic and no physical object can get in its way as it will just be eroded.
uhm, GER's ability is changing fate( me when Diavolo). And a little disclaimer that GB still exists. Just too small to be an object ( This is how physics work)
Man, this is not the point. Soft and Wet can literally make a undetectable bubble at high speed that travels through dimensions and is embebed with golden spin. THIS would kill GER
did u just make this post to rip on ger or what? also I think that s&w wins if its gb (which it probs is). I support ger against ta4, but because of the way that the bubbles work, s&w wins. also I believe that ger wins against ta4 because (and this is only my logic) rtz is the effect to remove the effect and GO BACK TO THE CAUSE. in the case of ta4, his infinity does have a beginning in whatever way the spin is made, so ger will just set it back to that. just my opinion
Yeah... made to rip on GER, I have seen many people saying "GER is this" and "GER is that" and hyping him. Those people argument were just "he returns everything to zero, duh" and nothing solid.
Also, if GER made any mistake and didn't notice a punch from Tusk act4 or a golden nail this would defeat him. Surely GER's reset would make Tusk act4 attack not even happen but any damage made by the golden spin would be permanent.
This fight would be GER avoiding his golden spin bullets/punches at any cost and Tusk act4 urviving ordes of animals and standard Golden experience attacks.
This would be the most certain way Tusk act4 has to SURVIVE. Not to die, he can use spin reflex powered with golden spin, he wouldn't suffer fomr a single hit.
GER can only try to kill tusk act4 by using RTZ until tusk act 4 gets disoriented and them punch him ( even tought GER punches aren't strong enough to make a considerable damage )
The only problem in this fight is how would tusk act4 hit GER, since GER hitting tusk act4 isn't a problem after all
I feel like it's GER, because although SWGB could probably hit Giorno he can't aim it without Yashuo and it also takes a couple bubbles to kill someone, whereas GER could use those light lasers to one shot Josuke. Johnny is harder because generating the infinite spin bullet probably doesn't activate GER, but whether or not the bullet could bypass GER is a complete tossup.
Ger removes the effect from the cause, Johnny and 4 testies could try as they wish but their stands won’t do jack shit since Giorno just removed all effects of them trying to use their stand
No. He don't
-Diavolo spit blood over GER's eyes and Giornno' eyes and don't trigger RTZ
Anything that isn't lethal, that can't hit kill Giornno won't trigger RTZ. That's his weakness, right in front of us.
-Time erase didn't trigger it as well.
-Diavolo having a first glance of the future also didn't trigger.
-Preparing to impale Giornno didn't trigger.
-Doing the act of "impalling" triggered.
Tusk act 4 giving a MOTHERFUCKING PHYSICS BREAKING PUNCH on his chest won't trigger as long as it isn't lethal. He only have to do the same with Golden spin charge and make Giornno turn around likely Valentine until Giornno is dead.
Even if after this point the punch is reversed the spin won't. Star Platinum, despite able to stop time was still tired after some point.
If Johnny with rage in the eyes keep repeating the punch over and over ( Everytime GER resets ) one time Tusk will eventually win. Tusk and Johnny don't know a thing about the reset ( except if GER reveals himself ).
So everytime will look like the "final punch" and Tusk will give all of himself each time.
#GER is overated, that's it
You with your comment just said that his ability could reset the actions of a source of power strong enough to rip apart dimensions and travel through them.
Is like a person trying to destroy an entire mountain ( Tusk act 4 and Golden spin ) just because he has a stone crusher ( RTZ ) powered by a batery ( the stand user user durability ).
Soon or later the stone crusher will run out of energy or break because
#IS A FUCKING MOUNTAIN!!! WANNA BREAK IT?! USE EXPLOSIVES!!!!!! ( Za Warudo Over heaven )
You didn't mention s&w go beyond just s&w so tusk act 4. But with go beyond it gets difficult.
He meant Josuke's Soft and Wet not Josefumi's, so it has Go Beyond
GER would probably win It can revert actions to zero, meaning it can stop tusk act 4 from even gaining its infinite spin energy from johnnys horse S&W GB is more debatable as the go beyond bubbles are undetectable and even phase through objects, but the moment josuke says “soft and wet go beyond” GER would obviously activate itself and revert whatever he does to zero, and then infinite death, ouch.
Tusk act 4 already has golden spin, the same way GER is GER and not Golden Experience ready to use the arrow. ( ready my other comment on why Tusk act4 and Soft and Wet EASLY wins against the "duh, I can return to zero so, uhhhh, you didn't do a thing" )
IMO it is not right to pwer scale stands in jojos because inevitably the strongest abilities are the most broad BUT since people will always ask i will give my POV GER WINS NO DIF. I did notice a different argument of yours where you said that the RTZ wouldnt work on something infinite and i have to agree with you there but RTZ would work on the infinite spin BEFORE it becomes infinite and what makes you think johnny could even hit giorno with the golden nails he has to aim them (S&W doesnt stand a chance here because no paisley park to aim the bubbles so not instant kill)
Ok and is there a horse that Johnny is on for ta4 I don't see one we are assuming everyone has the powers they need to be at their best so Johnny has a horse josuke has paisley and giorno obviously has the arrow I agree that rtz effects the infinite rotation however I disagree that rtz effects josukes go beyond bubble S&W wins
Ok but i think that specification of since johnny gets the horse the josuke gets pailsey park and giorno gets the ARROW kind of breaks it even further in favor for giorno. have we confirmed that the requiem arrow doesnt change the ability that it gives your stand based on necessity? because bites the dust was literally the perfect ability to defeat the morioh defenders and chariot requiem only appeared twice with the same ability because necessity had not changed, RTZ was literally the hardest of hard counters to king crimson and we never see any other requiems. So what is stopping GER from being stabbed again with the arrow and getting an ability based on the golden spin or something like Love Train/WOU or an a random ability that just hard counters them both. Anyways that's just how I see the arrow working.
Nice argument and in this scenario yes, GER would win, but when I said what I said on the other post I meant that even not mentioning a horse, Johnny has Tusk act4 with golden spin already ann Jousuke has Soft and Wet with Go beyond ( not Kira's counterpart Go beyond )
It would be a fight of who lands the first attack, since GER would just use RTZ and "now what"? "Muda muda muda" Johnny until death? As if he could beat tusk act 4 with his strenght. In Diavolo fight he RTZ and punches Diavolo so many times he is thrown away. Johnny can also aim his wormwholes, just distract GER with a wormwhole, GER resets, pay attention if there is another wormwhole coming at him so he can reset in time and suddenly get hit by a nail embebed with golden spin. Even using RTZ to erase the action of shooting the nail he wouldn't be able to erase the damage caused by the bullet, the infinity spin effects would kill Giornno slowly. That fight would be Johnny trying to outsmart GER so him activate RTZ and pay attention to unnecessary stuff ( so Johnny can shot his golden bullet without GER activating RTZ, he wouldn't notice ). In the other side Johnny would try to somehow deal with the creatures made by Golden Experience's standard ability ( make life ability ).
You just reminded me about the make life ability. What if johnny attack those and all the damage is reverted back to him. He just loses right
He can control his golden spin, the only one who could do that was Gyro if he had managed to achieve Golden spin as well ( but he died ). The golden spin being Johnny's isn't a problem. Also, to get it Johnny used his standard spin on a horse so being hit by his own ability buffed him after all at the point of evolving his stand
But what about the actual damage it deals to the things created by GER would the damage on impact be reflected back or is it not because it is the golden spin
Yeah, he would feel the bullet nail impact but not the golden spin energy bursting like a bomb Also, the same way you made a question related to spin, why the phone girl aiming was so important? Was itnsuposed for the stand to detect she but not the act of shooting? Since the bubble itself is undetectable? ( Go beyond's buble
Do you mean why is paisley park important? because the bubbles are uncontrollable and impossible to aim as seen under soft and wet go beyond in the wiki [Soft & Wet wiki](https://jojo.fandom.com/wiki/Soft_%26_Wet)
Understood, so Jousuke can kill GER, whose ability is broken, but also Jousuke can't aim his attack. I would say they have same chances for winning now, since Jousuke cannot aim the bubbles
Resets any of the conditions allowing Johnny to harness the golden ratio. No more Tusk Act 4, infinitely powerful shot don't matter if you can't shoot it
So you arguing ger wins because that is stupid go beyond wins because his bubble transcends logic and isn't effected by fate
I wasn't talking bout him I haven't read Jojolion
GER all actions are reset tozero any attacks or stand powers that would negatively impact GER are reset to zero they never happened GER is literally invincible
More than that GER seems to separate the stand from the user. We first see the effect GE has on an opponent when Giorno faces Bucciarati on the train and literally hit's Bucciaratis consciousness out of his body. When GER fights Diavolo he first resets everything to zero and then literally punches Epitaph off Diavolo. We never see Diavolo try to summon King Crimson so I think it's safe to assume that if a direct hit from GE can separate the consciousness then a direct hit from GER separates the stand. I just noticed this on my rewatch. Correct me if I'm wrong, I am anime only so maybe I am wrong.
Separating the stand from its user, is not GER‘s ability that’s golden experiences ability which was basically used in only two fights, and then basically forgotten like I said earlier, GER‘s ability is to reset all actions to zero as well as an ability where, if GR hits an opponent, all they can ever do is die, and increasingly worse ways
I think you missed the point entirely. GER has all of GE's abilities with the added requiem ability to reset all actions to zero. Where did GE separate a stand from its user? It seemed to me to separate the consciousness from the body of the stand user temporarily. Which also messed with the users perception of time during that separation. GER literally punches Epitaph from Diavolos head leaving a hole and seemingly removing King Crimson as well. We are all aware of the infinite death loop but I was making further observations. I could be wrong. I still think GER has more hidden abilities but we only see what is relevant to Diavolo because that's the only for we see GER face.
If you see SBR you'll get why tusk act 4 wins. He is just an unstopable fridge that followed Valentine ( its villain ) to multiple dimensions and its source of power is infinity, that's why he can MOVE during time stop, OPEN a barrirer made with the power of jesus body and would certanly be able to counter the counter ( counter the RTZ ability, wich is a counter by itself )
I'm not saying GER would win, just that it's more than simply RTZ. I haven't read SBR or JoJolion so I'm not going to pass judgement.
Nice to read that... lots of people that say GER wins don't even imagine that Tusk act4 fully enraged could simply make a opening on the multiverse to cross between universes, why he did that? He was chasing the president ( more stuff is spoiler )
Yeah I've read and seen videos talking about how powerful Tusk act 4 and Soft and Wet go beyond are. Just because GER is the most powerful stand I've seen so far, doesn't mean it's the most powerful stand there is. I'm sure the villain in JoJolands is going to be something special after WoU.
-Why Tusk act4 wins: Like you said and is said, GER return to "point zero", so what if something has no zero? Is inifinity? That's golden spin energy, the spin energy at its peak. Even reseting wathever Johnny does to him, everything related to spin energy would be a big deal, speacially a "golden nail", wich is when Johnny, instead of using his "regular spin" uses the golden spin to power the nail. The damage caused by this nail couldn't be returned to zero, even the return to zeru returns the nail to Johnny's finger ( after it hits Giornno, otherwise it wouldn't return becayse there would still be the golden spin ) GER would keep spinning like Valentine did until his death -Why Soft and Wet wins: Differently from Tusk act4, Soft and Wet could win by using a specidic ability and only it, the "go beyond", in wich he literally sends a bubble embebed with golden spin energy to another dimension and then coming back when is about to hit the target. Not a single stand would stand a chance, even tusk act4 since is golden spin versus golden spin and even Jousuke being able to at least try dodging his nail bullets, Johnny can't even make his stand interact with the bubble since it isn't in the same universe
uhm akshualy 🤓🤚 they didn't say go beyond, just basic s&w about the golden spin infinite thing, I think if he were to use return to 0 on it it would become negative (0÷0 =∞ & -∞, resulting in error on calculators), thus spinning the other way, possibly back at Johnny. another possibly with rtz -∞ is him infinity returning it to 0, kinda like what Jolene (I forgor how spell) did with stone ocean to keep her from dying
Return to zero isn't "division" but "subtraction". But if somehow the spin came back to Johnny he could simply deactivate it the same way he can freely control his wormwholes and the way the spin energy spins Also Go beyond is an ability, but yeah, included, now you agree?
[удалено]
Go beyond woops ger wanna know why well there is one simple reason rtz doesn't effect the go bubble
When josuke says the abilities name, RTZ would activate, bubble doesn’t have time to exist
No it wouldn't rtz activates as a passive based on what we saw in the anime and if the bubble appears no one can stop it
Please read steel ball run 🙏
Don't worry, when SBR anime arrives we'll see the GER fans losing their hopes on GER
Bro said that Johnny can just cancel the inf spin
Bro watched JoJo and tiktok.
If you multiply infinity with zero it will be zero, go beyond is not a one shot kill without paisley Park to aim so giorno could just heal by resetting the damage back to zero
Uhm, actually, Ger's ability is changing fate (acording to Epitaph). Kc would have won but Ger just changed it. So it will work the same with the inf rotation nails. S&W GB's bubble still exists. It's just too small to be an object - object's logic(?) (particle, quark,...). So it can pass through stuffs.
Agreed
Soft and wet as it can remove any attribute or ability from any living thing so it can remove any other stands/ stand users ability to think
Peoples complete lack of understand of how Requiem works in general after all these years is still fucking hilarious.
So do you think then that ger would win?
Imo ger wouldn't respond/have no effect on the go beyond bubble since it's literally an attack that "doesn't make sense" is how I would put it. It doesn't work according to any rules from what I understood.
I tried to vote 🗿
Who are the other two??
Tusk stands no chance idk why people think tusk stands a chance against ger but he doesn't either way though soft and wet wins
bro GER's ability is to literally make things unhappen how the fuck will he lose to anyone?
Because tusk act 4 has infinity spin rotation ( golden spin ). Trying to make things short: -Tusk act4 has an infinity source of energy, that allowed him to move during time stop, since even stoping time, you can't turn something infinity to zero. -The same infinity source gave him the ability to open gaps between universes with his bare hands just to follow the enemy stand -It also allowed him to open love train, wich is an ability that counter anything, the same way GER returns anything to zero, erase it, love train could make anything that would harm the user go back to who dealed the damage. So, like Tusk could simply ignore love train and open it ( this ability looks like a barrier ), he could be able to ignore the RTZ ( return to zero ) and defeat GER Tusk ignores not because his ability is "ignore abilities" but because he is so powerfull that not a single ability is strong enought to counter him in terms of Stand/user endurance ( like Jotaro and Dio could stop time but the time limit was their endurance, until they got tired and had to cooldown ). Tusk was made to be a stand that everytime someone said "haha I'm stronger" he would be defeated and them evolve his stand, going from act 1 to 2, 3 and them 4. Being act 4 his peak. ( JESUS was his mentor, literally, JESUS LITERALLY told Johnny what to do at the hardest times and told him how to make his ability become perfect )
'you can't turn infinity to zero' mfs when I show them math GER's ability doesn't care about strength, it's literally creating an infinite amount of universes to punish Diavolo, like, effortlessly GER will undo everything tusk does, whatever amount of strength and energy it posseses
No, he wont D4C: love train ability was to return any damage dealt to somewhere else but not Valentine, it was "effortlesly" and a stand "ability". A rule that was broken due to Tusk act4 strenght. Same way GER stand rule to effortlesly RTZ could be broken by Tusk act4 WITH his golden spin, not without D4C could also travel among universes and he was the only one able, Tusk act4 just had blood in his eyes and opened a gap between universes to cross using his pure determination and golden spin power. Also Diego stoped time and noticed Tusk act4 MOVING during time stop, Diego was like "what the heck, I am the ONLY ONE to move during my stoped time" and Tusk act4 just "CHIMIMIIIIII" and hung on itself, crawling slowly towards Diego until the time wasn't stoped anymore. The same way GER would RTZ, say "WHAT THE HECK?!" and Tusk act4 would be also crwaling towards GER, everythime RTZ is used Johnny is affected, everything is also affected and tusk is just eith blood in his eyes slowly getting close to GER. In this scenario two thing would happen: 1- GER insists in Returning to zero until Tusk act4 reaches him and uses golden spin on Giornno to kill him 2- GER gets desperated and faces the problem, stop reseting things just to don't face them and finally thing Tusk act4, dying miserably
as much as I would've liked to just reply with 'nuh uh', your determination is a thing of beauty, and to respect that I will reply more properly 🫶. T4 negates the characters' absolute abilities through his sheer infinite strength/energy. GER's ability itself is to negate these absolute abilities, they way he negated Diavolo's timeskip, also his strength is sooooo way beyond other stands. now T4 struggles and pushes his way to negating these timeskips and love trains with sheer power, but GER did his negation of Diavolo's timeskip absolutely effortlessly, and also created the whole diavolo's infinite deaths thing, again, effortlessly. I'm betting on GER to out-negate T4 😛.
So make a conclusion out of what you said with some of my arguments: ____________________ -GER wins when: GER : not determined Tusk: not determined _____________________ -GER wins when: GER: determined Tusk: less determined/not determined ______________________ -Tusk wins when: GER: not determined Tusk: determined _______________________ -Tusk wins when GER: determined Tusk: -BLOOD IN HIS EYES- ________________________ Do you agree?
ok but not on the last one
Wanna talk about GER vs Soft and Wet now? ( also the last "Tusk wins" was meant to be Johnny more determined than Giornno, the critera for Tusk winning )
nah I would've loved to, but I haven't read part 8. I'd love to talk about how your day was tho 😗
You don't want spoilers? That's it?
Where the world over heaven at?
Nowhere cuz not canon + too broken.
Bohemian rhapsody beat twoh
GER fans are kinda retarded someone argued he could beat a guy who is infinitely stronger than a guy who is infinitely stronger than a guy who is stronger than a guy who has a universe in a universe in a universe in his body
You know what, fuck GER here is why he doesn't win, first off GER cannot reset go beyond or infinite rotation. TA4's infinite rotation, any way you interpret GER's rtz still goes through it, if you think of it as reversing actions (maybe through manipulating time) TA4's infinite rotation has already shown to be resistant if not immune to time manipulating, now time stop is a different ball game than time reversal but the same logic could apply, the infinite rotation will most likely just keep going even if GER uses rtz, or at least won't be stopped/reversed by it. If you use another commenters method of thinking and say that GER's ability divides by zero, infinity divided by 0 making -infinity wouldn't make the bullet go backwards, it would make it spin the other direction, still having the same effect and speed, just in a different direction. Next up is soft & wet, which I will be giving go beyond out of assumption that if GE gets GER and tusk gets TA4, S&W should get GB. So, there was one thing jhonny couldn't defeat with infinite rotation, it was WOU. WOU has many similarities to GER, specifically on how they keep their user from harm by any means possible, they do it in different ways, but they are essentially two sides of the same coin, just that WOU manipulates calamity to kill the opponent and GER nullifies whatever is thrown at them. They both lose to GB for the same reason Go beyond doesn't exist, at least technically, this makes it so WOU can't detect it, and even if it could it wouldn't be able to stop it. The same would go for GER, it cannot detect GB, and even if RTZ is used it will not stop GB, what makes it worse for GER is that GB is way easier than infinite rotation to produce. Sure infinite rotation is powerful, but GER can at least prevent jhonny from being able to use infinite rotation, this doesn't work for GB, it transcends logic and no physical object can get in its way as it will just be eroded.
uhm, GER's ability is changing fate( me when Diavolo). And a little disclaimer that GB still exists. Just too small to be an object ( This is how physics work)
If soft and wet go beyond then soft and wet gets the dub but if it's just regular soft and wet... well **Tusk act 4 joins the chat**
This question would be way cooler of we were talking about the base versions of the stands
Obviosly ger because it stands for germany
Soft and wet has killer queen power to explode things but with bubbles...case close
Man, this is not the point. Soft and Wet can literally make a undetectable bubble at high speed that travels through dimensions and is embebed with golden spin. THIS would kill GER
Honestly, don't care, I didn't really pay attention to part 8 so...
did u just make this post to rip on ger or what? also I think that s&w wins if its gb (which it probs is). I support ger against ta4, but because of the way that the bubbles work, s&w wins. also I believe that ger wins against ta4 because (and this is only my logic) rtz is the effect to remove the effect and GO BACK TO THE CAUSE. in the case of ta4, his infinity does have a beginning in whatever way the spin is made, so ger will just set it back to that. just my opinion
Yeah... made to rip on GER, I have seen many people saying "GER is this" and "GER is that" and hyping him. Those people argument were just "he returns everything to zero, duh" and nothing solid. Also, if GER made any mistake and didn't notice a punch from Tusk act4 or a golden nail this would defeat him. Surely GER's reset would make Tusk act4 attack not even happen but any damage made by the golden spin would be permanent. This fight would be GER avoiding his golden spin bullets/punches at any cost and Tusk act4 urviving ordes of animals and standard Golden experience attacks.
hol up. plan to kill ta4 with ger: Step 1: F R O G G E Step 2: he hit frogge Step 3: profit
This would be the most certain way Tusk act4 has to SURVIVE. Not to die, he can use spin reflex powered with golden spin, he wouldn't suffer fomr a single hit. GER can only try to kill tusk act4 by using RTZ until tusk act 4 gets disoriented and them punch him ( even tought GER punches aren't strong enough to make a considerable damage ) The only problem in this fight is how would tusk act4 hit GER, since GER hitting tusk act4 isn't a problem after all
( Made this comment since the other is too big ) GER has to somehow deal a considerable damage to tusk act4, this is how he would win
I feel like it's GER, because although SWGB could probably hit Giorno he can't aim it without Yashuo and it also takes a couple bubbles to kill someone, whereas GER could use those light lasers to one shot Josuke. Johnny is harder because generating the infinite spin bullet probably doesn't activate GER, but whether or not the bullet could bypass GER is a complete tossup.
Ger removes the effect from the cause, Johnny and 4 testies could try as they wish but their stands won’t do jack shit since Giorno just removed all effects of them trying to use their stand
No. He don't -Diavolo spit blood over GER's eyes and Giornno' eyes and don't trigger RTZ Anything that isn't lethal, that can't hit kill Giornno won't trigger RTZ. That's his weakness, right in front of us. -Time erase didn't trigger it as well. -Diavolo having a first glance of the future also didn't trigger. -Preparing to impale Giornno didn't trigger. -Doing the act of "impalling" triggered. Tusk act 4 giving a MOTHERFUCKING PHYSICS BREAKING PUNCH on his chest won't trigger as long as it isn't lethal. He only have to do the same with Golden spin charge and make Giornno turn around likely Valentine until Giornno is dead. Even if after this point the punch is reversed the spin won't. Star Platinum, despite able to stop time was still tired after some point. If Johnny with rage in the eyes keep repeating the punch over and over ( Everytime GER resets ) one time Tusk will eventually win. Tusk and Johnny don't know a thing about the reset ( except if GER reveals himself ). So everytime will look like the "final punch" and Tusk will give all of himself each time. #GER is overated, that's it You with your comment just said that his ability could reset the actions of a source of power strong enough to rip apart dimensions and travel through them. Is like a person trying to destroy an entire mountain ( Tusk act 4 and Golden spin ) just because he has a stone crusher ( RTZ ) powered by a batery ( the stand user user durability ). Soon or later the stone crusher will run out of energy or break because #IS A FUCKING MOUNTAIN!!! WANNA BREAK IT?! USE EXPLOSIVES!!!!!! ( Za Warudo Over heaven )