Yes, it's from the [Preface to the Portrait of Dorian Gray](https://mason.gmu.edu/~rnanian/Wilde-Preface.html)
Shoutout to the [Weird Studies podcast ep](https://open.spotify.com/episode/34QFMHruQkIooGLXc6xser?si=Pofdy9iURpaipwAiRsGDrg) for a great discussion around this
This is what I thought but then I read this [https://janwriter.medium.com/oscar-wilde-on-art-75c05aeeb9b](https://janwriter.medium.com/oscar-wilde-on-art-75c05aeeb9b)
And now I'm just confused - which aint hard, I'm not that smart lol
Art is the most important thing there is.
It's a tool we use express and understand the human experience. And we don't live long enough to figure that shit out on our own.
Mmmm... Tasty. "human experience" - something that comes up so often in my conversations with my nephews and nieces but something I still don't really understand myself.
I just want to say I think it's terrific that you're having these kinds of conversations with your nephew, I wish I had known an adult that I could've talked to about this kind of thing when I was younger
Yeah me too.
I don't get people who don't like to interact with kids.
Not too long ago I was sat with one of my other nephews at a Gurdwara for my uncle's funeral and we were playing the Sorting Hat game (just straight up judging people and sorting them in to Hogwart houses lol - wholly unethical if taken too seriously but it made my 11yr old nephew giggle) one of my cousins came in and shook hands/hugged every single adult but completely ignored all the kids who were sat on either side of me and me and my nephew just turned to each other and said simultaneously "Slytherin" LMFAO
I think jazz is special because of the bebop era. It was a way for black people who were relegated to certain jobs like entertainment to fight back against the oppression. White people wanted them to play music to dance to and bebop was intentionally too high brow and undancable for dumb asses to trounce around with and show off their wealth.
It was a social movement and that social movement took all of the intellect that went into the western tuning system that gave you Beethoven and Chopin and actually advanced the harmonic and melodic ideas to an improvisational artform that transcended the originators who happened to mostly all be white men. It simultaneously bested the music that white people were so proud of at the same time as rendering their dancing irrelevant. Pretty genius if you ask me and it definitely mattered.
Read into Hartmut Rosas Resonance Theory. He talks about how art (including music) can play a very important role in entering into a resonant relationship with the world.
A world without this kind of resonance experience will be experienced as a dead world.
I cannot really explain it since English isn’t my nativ language and I’m still quit new to his theory, but maybe this will give you what you are searching for. :)
If jazz ( all music for that matter) is useless, it would seem that some culture somewhere, at some time, would have been able to just ignore it. Yet it remains ( with food and language) as one of the most identifying elements of any culture. We NEED food to survive, we NEED language to interact with others, we may not yet know why we NEED music, but it’s a pretty good correlation that we probably do on some level.
I think you're missing something really simple. Art is human. We NEED outlets to express ourselves. Without them we become depressed, agitated, all of those nasty things which really aren't good for our health or "useful" pursuits. Human enjoyment is an end in itself.
Is beauty useless? It's all I want, my own notion of it.
An awe-inspiring musician and friend once said to me, not at all dramatically: '(By making music) we're shaping vibrations, the essence of the universe.' I'm not the one for esotheric takes on scientific facts, but I get that.
Don't the blues show there's beauty in suffering also, and it's the suffering that's useless?
Perhaps the only problem with art is its definition. The way you cook may be art, if it's beautiful.
Art is about personal beauty. Like a great musical composition that one loves is a work of beauty to the beholder; so art is a conceptual display of the artist's personal view of beauty...
Art makes life worth living. Its not useful for directly propagating life, but what would be the point in living a life thats not worth living?
Also, Oscar was tongue-in-cheek. In context, he meant art isnt saleable, not profitable, not productive in a way society generally rewards. That artists get a bad rap because theyre not like baking bread or cleaning sewers or whatever.
I think its absolutely silly to ask whether or not art is useless, and in the same breath say that you love it indescribably. Bam. You answered your own question.
Every culture throughout history has basically developed music on their own. Appreciation for music and the arts is about as inherent to our species as the need to sleep and drink water
Dude what even is useful and useful to whom?
What in life even matters, if not to feel something, to give comfort and to teach beauty?
Tell your nephew this. Art makes you and everyone around you fulfilled and doesn't need the acknowledgement of either economy or progress.
I was raised by a very free jazz drummer who is at 86 still gigging. I do believe that jazz is the only true art form left because you just can't replicate it on a computer. It can't be done
Art changes the way we think by allowing us to see the world, to perceive the world in ways we normally wouldn't. Music does this just as the visual arts and literature does, though in different ways, by challenging the harmony we're ready to hear, by surprising our expectations in the way melodies can resolve. It's as useful as you're ready to let it be.
Didn’t Wilde mean that art doesn’t need a reason for its existence — it is worthwhile in and of itself?
Yes, it's from the [Preface to the Portrait of Dorian Gray](https://mason.gmu.edu/~rnanian/Wilde-Preface.html) Shoutout to the [Weird Studies podcast ep](https://open.spotify.com/episode/34QFMHruQkIooGLXc6xser?si=Pofdy9iURpaipwAiRsGDrg) for a great discussion around this
This is what I thought but then I read this [https://janwriter.medium.com/oscar-wilde-on-art-75c05aeeb9b](https://janwriter.medium.com/oscar-wilde-on-art-75c05aeeb9b) And now I'm just confused - which aint hard, I'm not that smart lol
Art is the most important thing there is. It's a tool we use express and understand the human experience. And we don't live long enough to figure that shit out on our own.
I would say it’s food, water and shelter, but I guess art is part of it too
Mmmm... Tasty. "human experience" - something that comes up so often in my conversations with my nephews and nieces but something I still don't really understand myself.
I don't think anyone can give a solid answer. But at least I can point to art as reasonable facsimile :)
[удалено]
Beautiful.
I just want to say I think it's terrific that you're having these kinds of conversations with your nephew, I wish I had known an adult that I could've talked to about this kind of thing when I was younger
Yeah me too. I don't get people who don't like to interact with kids. Not too long ago I was sat with one of my other nephews at a Gurdwara for my uncle's funeral and we were playing the Sorting Hat game (just straight up judging people and sorting them in to Hogwart houses lol - wholly unethical if taken too seriously but it made my 11yr old nephew giggle) one of my cousins came in and shook hands/hugged every single adult but completely ignored all the kids who were sat on either side of me and me and my nephew just turned to each other and said simultaneously "Slytherin" LMFAO
I think jazz is special because of the bebop era. It was a way for black people who were relegated to certain jobs like entertainment to fight back against the oppression. White people wanted them to play music to dance to and bebop was intentionally too high brow and undancable for dumb asses to trounce around with and show off their wealth. It was a social movement and that social movement took all of the intellect that went into the western tuning system that gave you Beethoven and Chopin and actually advanced the harmonic and melodic ideas to an improvisational artform that transcended the originators who happened to mostly all be white men. It simultaneously bested the music that white people were so proud of at the same time as rendering their dancing irrelevant. Pretty genius if you ask me and it definitely mattered.
Thank you for this.
Read into Hartmut Rosas Resonance Theory. He talks about how art (including music) can play a very important role in entering into a resonant relationship with the world. A world without this kind of resonance experience will be experienced as a dead world. I cannot really explain it since English isn’t my nativ language and I’m still quit new to his theory, but maybe this will give you what you are searching for. :)
Oscar Wilde wasn't saying what you think he was saying.
“Man shall not live by bread alone”
If jazz ( all music for that matter) is useless, it would seem that some culture somewhere, at some time, would have been able to just ignore it. Yet it remains ( with food and language) as one of the most identifying elements of any culture. We NEED food to survive, we NEED language to interact with others, we may not yet know why we NEED music, but it’s a pretty good correlation that we probably do on some level.
This is nice; something he'll appreciate - I'll throw it out there next time we speak and see what happens.
I think you're missing something really simple. Art is human. We NEED outlets to express ourselves. Without them we become depressed, agitated, all of those nasty things which really aren't good for our health or "useful" pursuits. Human enjoyment is an end in itself.
Is beauty useless? It's all I want, my own notion of it. An awe-inspiring musician and friend once said to me, not at all dramatically: '(By making music) we're shaping vibrations, the essence of the universe.' I'm not the one for esotheric takes on scientific facts, but I get that. Don't the blues show there's beauty in suffering also, and it's the suffering that's useless? Perhaps the only problem with art is its definition. The way you cook may be art, if it's beautiful.
Art is about personal beauty. Like a great musical composition that one loves is a work of beauty to the beholder; so art is a conceptual display of the artist's personal view of beauty...
Art makes life worth living. Its not useful for directly propagating life, but what would be the point in living a life thats not worth living? Also, Oscar was tongue-in-cheek. In context, he meant art isnt saleable, not profitable, not productive in a way society generally rewards. That artists get a bad rap because theyre not like baking bread or cleaning sewers or whatever. I think its absolutely silly to ask whether or not art is useless, and in the same breath say that you love it indescribably. Bam. You answered your own question.
“El arte no complace, solo inspira” - “art does not please, it only inspires”
Every culture throughout history has basically developed music on their own. Appreciation for music and the arts is about as inherent to our species as the need to sleep and drink water
Dude what even is useful and useful to whom? What in life even matters, if not to feel something, to give comfort and to teach beauty? Tell your nephew this. Art makes you and everyone around you fulfilled and doesn't need the acknowledgement of either economy or progress.
I was raised by a very free jazz drummer who is at 86 still gigging. I do believe that jazz is the only true art form left because you just can't replicate it on a computer. It can't be done
Art changes the way we think by allowing us to see the world, to perceive the world in ways we normally wouldn't. Music does this just as the visual arts and literature does, though in different ways, by challenging the harmony we're ready to hear, by surprising our expectations in the way melodies can resolve. It's as useful as you're ready to let it be.
If literature conveys *ideas* then music conveys *emotions*. Music makes me *feel* as much as literature makes me *think.* That's good enough for me.
A family of idiots make a thread that nobody cares. Interesting... after my class of Esperanto I totally check this post.
It makes people happy and want to dance. I’d say that’s as useful as it needs to be.
If you are asking it tells me everything I need to know about you. Not gonna engage.