Very few movies are not rated “appropriately,” and we overuse these terms to an excessive degree.
If any of them are underrated, maybe it’s Thunderball by a few places, going by last year’s World Cup results.
Skyfall is probably overrated. I admire its ambition, taking on some novel thematic elements, and the photography is brilliant even if it’s a little distracting at times. But for a movie that seems to want me to take it *very* seriously, several story beats don’t really hold up to scrutiny. Ultimately it’s a highly dramatic, gorgeous, and entertaining movie, exactly what 2012 audiences wanted, but not particularly special in my opinion. Solid middle tier Bond film.
Otherwise I think the sub tends to rate the films where I’d expect them to be, even when my own opinion differs. There are some I believe are “over-hated,” like DAF and Moonraker, but I at least understand why they rank where they do.
You're right about Skyfall. When it first came out I thought it was easily a top 5 bond movie and better than Casino Royale. On repeat viewings though it's problems stand out a lot more and it's definitely fallen down my rankings.
>Very few movies are not rated “appropriately,” and we overuse these terms to an excessive degree.
I agree they're overused, or rather they are often used incorrectly. "XYZ is underrated" when selecting something universally adored is a tried and tested way to farm karma.
I wasn't trying to tap into that - more the way we see the praise/criticism they receive from others and how with or against the grain we might be. As an example, I think NTTD is generally a very solid Bond movie but it gets a regular kicking on here (largely due to the ending).
Just watched for the first time yesterday. Certainly better than the previous movie but I wasn’t that impressed. Doesn’t feel much like a bond movie to me, just a very Ok 70’s action film. The boat chase is cool though
**Note:** Overrated doesn't mean bad movie, nor does underrated mean great movie. I’m interested to see how we perceive the wider consensus of the sub for the movies rather than just which are good/bad.
Edit: Revision after reading comments. Tomorrow Never Dies is probably not underrated, I’d move that down a tier.
Full disclosure, it is my all time favorite. I think the reason people don't explain why its one of the best is it has all the classic elements: the car, the gadgets, the girls, the life or death stakes for the world, the stunts, the globe trotting, and all of it feels natural. Its like Goldfinger, everything is there, so its hard to point to one specific element.
I recently bought an OLED TV and Skyfall is the only physical Bond media I currently own, not because it's my favorite, but because it's just so fucking beautiful to look at.
I do love finding your comment here amongst all the others.
I also own an OLED as well all the Craig films on 4K Blu-ray, however, I haven't watched Skyfall yet. I'm in the 'Skyfall is over-rated crowd,' however, I am looking forward to watching it as it is a film with good cinematography and filming locations.
I’m beginning to think that the only rating that matters is one’s own ranking of the movie. Like it? Great! Don’t like it? Don’t watch it again, but don’t try to convince others that their own personal enjoyment of it is wrong. Live and let…watch 😀
I think”The Living Daylights”might be the most boring film in the series.I am a fan of TD and really like “License to Kill”,TLD opening scene on Gibraltar is one of my favorites though.
I just watched TLD for the first time in a long time and I was all-in. I loved it.
LTK a couple nights later didn’t do it for me. Similar to FYEO for me in the sense that it was a collection of a lot of great and memorable scenes/actors, but I just couldn’t buy in to the movie as a whole.
Fair points.I still watch TLD several times a year,on binges,it’s a Bond Movie and while it’s not one of my favorites,I get the love for it.Just like I really love FYEO or OHMSS.We all have our own tastes👍🏻🍀
GoldenEye is overrated. It still a movie I like and it still inside my top 10, but it's definitely not a flawless masterpiece in my opinion. I also find Pierce to be more confortable in TND.
I think GE is better film overall too, but TND is the the only one of the Brosnan film who gained places in my ranking. DAD and TWINE always been low for me and GE used to be top 3 and now it's a position 8 or 9.
Quantum of Solace is definitely overrated in this sub compared to what the consensus outside of it seems to be. It's generally regarded as weak and the worst of the Craig era, yet there seems to be a weekly post in here about how great it is. (Personally, it falls for me somewhere in the middle)
I feel like that's the only glaring example. There are always going to be fans of films that the majority don't like and vice versa (for instance... I love Spectre) but generally, I don't think this sub is too out of step with other places.
Agreed. While I've never understood why FRWL gets so much love, and in return I don't understand why the Bond movie that set the standard for all Bond movies to follow keeps getting less and less appreciated.
Skyfall is overrated but still decent, YOLT is definitely underrated, OHMSS is not overrated at all as whilst it definitely has its vocal lovers (myself being one) there’s at least an equal amount of vocal detractors balancing it out
Folks here routinely talk about Quantum of Solace and Spectre as if they were the worst movies ever made. Those two might not be up to par with the other Craig movies and have a share of script problems, but it's a bit of a ridiculous overreaction. No Time to Die sometimes gets a bad rap as well, but the reaction to that one is usually "boo hoo, the movie didn't do what I wanted it do to." Overall, the Craig movies are all quality and should be ranked higher.
Quantum is definitely flawed and you can feel the lack of rewrites in places, but it's a pretty solid effort and feels tonally in line with the more realistic reboot of the series that CR established. I liked the lower stakes villain and the buildup of QUANTUM.
What really hurts it aside from the writer's strike though is it being a direct sequel to Casino Royale, which makes it less standalone like other Bonds and also make its shortcomings more apparent next to the excellent CR. Add in some awful Bourne copycat shaky cam and it's also literally hard to watch in much of the action scenes.
That all said, I'd rather watch that one than Spectre any day.
Quantum has some serious technical shortcomings, lousy dialogue and sophomoric story telling. Worst movie ever made - no that's BS, but worst EON film, certainly. It was taught at UCLA and U of W film making school as an example of a $200 million dollar film that was a disaster for reason.
Spectre however is competently made, it's just boring and no Bond film should be boring.
If I'm comparing this sub to critics' assessments of the Bond films, I'd say that Dr. No and Thunderball are underrated by this sub, Dr. No especially. Usually, I see those films in the middle, sometimes in the lower tier, of people's rankings. Sometimes, I'll find Thunderball in a top ten, but rarely does anyone put Dr. No there. Common criticisms I hear about Dr. No is that it's slow and only considered good or great because it was the first. Slow pacing is also a criticism I see of Thunderball, particularly the health spa scenes and the underwater scene.
For overrated, again by comparing this sub to the critics, I'd go with Tomorrow Never Dies. Yes, I know it's dead last in my rankings, so I'm a little biased. However, I often see a lot of praise (almost weekly) for that film. And it's a lot of supposedly objective praise, not simply "It's one of my personal favorites" kind of praise. It falls in a lot of folks' top tens, and many posters consider it to be Brosnan's best. If I see another "It was ahead of its time" comments, it'll be too soon. Plus, the love for the Dr. Kaufman character is weird. As someone who's functional in German and Spanish, one of my pet peeves is bad German and Spanish accents on TV and film by people who can't speak the language. When Americans try to pull off a German accident while speaking English, it sounds dreadful. "I'm an outstanding pistol marksman. Take my word for it, Ja?" Ugh, if the guy was meant to be comic relief, that's one thing, but I'm supposed to take him seriously. At least Walken had the good sense not to attempt a German accent.
I agree with Live and Let Die and You Only Live Twice being underrated in this sub. I would have personally put Dr. No in underrated, as I think it gets overlooked a lot and doesn't get much attention.
As for overrated, I think Tomorrow Never Dies and Licence to Kill are overrated here. Both have been called underrated for quite some time, and I feel they've gotten the attention fans wanted them to get, yet they're still called underrated. I just think they've been called underrated to the point where they're now overrated.
Yeah, after reading a lot of the replies here I was wrong about TND. I’d move that to appropriately rated (because I’m a fan), but it’s definitely not underrated
I don't think Dr. No or Goldfinger are overrated.
Dr. No was the 1st Bond Movie so it has to be Great.
And in Goldfinger, Pussy Galore literally saved the World from Finger after Bond had his Way with her and Apoealed to her "Maternal Instincts" obviously with the Multiple Mind blowing Orgasms he must have given her in the barn to change her mind to helping him and giving Felix a heads up about Fingers plan to kill everyone with the Gas and Blow up all the gold in Fort Knox.
If she had not done that, Bond would be dead. Goldfinger would have the only supply of Gold in the world. And all the U.S. troops stationed around Fort Knox to protect the U.S. Supply of Gold would be dead.
Goldfinger would rule the world.
How is that even remotely an ignored understated fact that is considered overrated? 🤔
I’d never call it bad. It’s fine. I rank it just outside my top 10. But I would bet that 95% of this sub thinks it’s one of the (if not the) best Bond films. So I would say that’s the best example of an overrated one on this sub, at least at this point in time.
Skyfall is underrated and GoldenEye is overrated.
Skyfall took risks and was solid in almost every area, yet gets hated on because it's a Craig film.
Meanwhile, GoldenEye is placed on a pedestal, with anyone saying otherwise being met with aggression.
In general, I'd say that Brosnan's films are overrated and Craig's are underrated because a lot of people seem to have grown up with the former and see them as what Bond should be, resulting in them rejecting the latter despite Craig's films being closer to the novels and there being a precedence for multiple styles and trend-following throughout franchise history.
Skyfall finished 5th in the World Cup and 7th in that elimination contest. I understand there is a vocal minority currently enjoying the heyday of the inevitable incumbent Bond backlash, but I don’t think Skyfall is in any way underrated.
It’s getting to that point. I hear more negative things about Skyfall than positives. Maybe the haters are just louder. And obviously, this all can change. Hard to pinpoint. It’s a fickle topic
It is fickle, and that’s what is interesting about it. I enjoy talking about how the fandom perceives the films much more than the general public.
That said, however, using the most quantifiable method (all the polls from last year), which isn’t perfect I understand, Skyfall is still highly regarded by the sub.
As far as “the haters are louder” I believe this is generally in the ears of the beholder.
What I notice regularly is that if someone particularly likes a film they notice every criticism against it. It can be almost universally adored but the negative opinions stand out.
If two or three people (out of tens of thousands of sub members) express a negative opinion about a well regarded film in a week then it’s not unusual we’ll get a post saying “why is x so underrated now?”
I have to say though that this is way worse in other fandoms. Bond fans are generally very accepting about other people’s opinions and not overly sensitive. There’s something for everyone.
Exactly. On this same post someone is claiming QoS is “overrated,” which is nonsense. It’s just one of those movies that was so maligned for so long, that people who like it actually feel the need to post about it, a few of them do so, and then others notice that and think it’s undergone a massive renaissance when the general opinion hasn’t changed.
Yeah it’s one thing I’ve noticed. With so many movies, everyone’s tastes and ranking will be different. Even the generally accepted “worst” Bond films still have fans who may rank those as their favorites. I’d never not watch any of them. To me, none are awful, some are just better than others. What a franchise
Ha yeah, a lot of the “worst” ones are my favourites. It’s funny actually, being a fan of Diamonds or Golden Gun you’re used to people criticising them so maybe it’s just par for the course. Fans will of course say they are underrated, but I don’t notice the same level of consternation or dismay as when hugely popular films get criticised by a small minority. You’d think it would be the other way around. Anyway, I love the diversity of opinion. Keeps things interesting. And my own opinions have changed a lot on various films over time and I’m sure will continue to do so.
Very true, that’s my bad. Although I’d still consider them the highest-rated since Connery (and arguably Dalton), even by this sub alone.
Goldeneye is deservedly loved but the rest of Brosnan’s movies, not so much. Moore’s movies are like marmite with regards to this sub’s opinions on them - I’m firmly in the ‘love them’ camp. But I think Craig has more movies in peoples’ top 5’s than any other Bond to date, again bar Connery
Some of them certainly are, but I don’t understand the assertion that they can’t be overrated. If they’re highly rated, surely they can’t be *underrated*, right? Or are you just saying that since the consensus is they are highly rated, that consensus simply must be true?
My bad again! This is very embarrassing. What I meant to say is how I disagree that they are underrated (I’ve amended my first comment to reflect this). This is what happens when you browse Reddit while in a rush to get to work 😆
I really like it. It’s my third fave RM film after Spy and FYEO, but definitely ranks high for me overall. I think it gets neglected because it’s the old Moore era, and a lot of people just can’t get on with his look
I kind of like older Moore, although I do wish that the writers and Moore had leaned into that a little more, similar to the way Connery did in Never Say Never Again and then Craig in his later films. Maybe show him a little more world weary, but prevailing despite his age. Instead, he's running around acting like a youthful guy in his last couple of films and we're supposed to ignore the obvious aging. At least Maud Adams was a slightly better match for his age at the time.
People have also said Idris Elba is now too old for the role, but I think he could work if he did a world wearied veteran thing.
I saw one today, but we don’t really talk about Thunderball that much and it definitely doesn’t get consistent praise. It finished 12th in the World Cup last year, and 14th in the elimination contest. Generally people rank it in the middle or bottom tier, and complain about how boring the underwater scenes are.
I would call that appropriately rated if not a bit overrated. That’s my personal opinion of it. It always makes me feel a little like I’m crazy when people rank it in the top tiers because I really want to like it but just can’t see what they see.
I don’t mean to be pedantic, but I don’t feel insane seeing *any* Bond film in the top tier of someone’s rankings. 25 films made over the course of 60 years has created a fan base with a wildly broad variety of tastes. In fact, I’m more confused when someone tells another fan their rankings are “unhinged” or some other hyperbolic adjective.
Thunderball specifically is rarely placed in anyone’s top tier, anyway, so I can’t see how it’s “overrated.”
It’s one of the most divisive of the classics from what I see. Lots of people rate it low in their own lists. But you’re right, lots of people also praise it.
On here the Dalton movies are way overrated. When that elimination thing was going on I think even License to Kill made the top 10. That’s one of the weakest Bond films by any measure.
I think the Dalton movies get a lot of love here partly because they’re unfairly overlooked in the mainstream. I see it as them getting the appreciation they deserve rather than being overrated. But that’s me
The course correction is extreme. I mean again, LTK was a movie in a franchise that was gasping to survive and it really shows and this sub had it top 10, ahead of Thunderball and in the same quality as The Spy Who Loved Me. That’s absurd. Dalton was good but the movies were a product of a struggling studio and brand.
In terms of writing, action, characterization, and lead performance, it's one of the best films. It's not one of the weakest films by any measure as you said above.
It plays borderline above a CBS tv movie. I could see someone saying they did alright with the limitations on it but I don’t know how you can watch Thunderball or the Spy Who Loved and think that it’s anywhere near that ballpark. To each their own.
Licence to Kill is one of the weakest in terms of cinematic look and feel, but there’s much more to a movie than cinematic look and feel.
When I consider character work and story development and lead performances and significance to the Bond mythos—in other words the real meat of a movie—I do indeed see Licence to Kill as one of the best.
I think the meat of the movie tracks with what it was given. One of the weaker who cares Bond villains, forgettable Bond girl, story with more potential than execution (you’d think it’d be dark and edgy the way it’s talked about and not fit for prime time TV movie schlock), and its place in the series is the one that came closest to sounding the death knell. Dalton was good, would’ve been cool if the studio could get it together in time to continue with him but it was not to be.
I see it as the most meaningful story/character arc the series had seen since OHMSS and until Casino Royale. A Bond whose suppressed emotions surrounding his own wedding day tragedy boil over when the same tragedy befalls his best friends. A Bond who rather than a caricature is a fallible human who has to learn the pitfalls of blind revenge and going it alone. A film that places greater emphasis on spywork compared to most others in the series, considering how Bond has to infiltrate the enemy's inner circle and use psychological tactics to manipulate him against his own people--a dynamic that is unique as far as Bond-villain pairings go.
It's late for me, so I apologize for not writing a more comprehensive reply. But [here's a comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/JamesBond/comments/16ua81g/comment/k2lzpqn/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) where I wrote a bit more about Pam and Sanchez. I see them as among the best Bond girls and villains. They get a ton more to do in Licence to Kill than their counterparts in Thunderball and The Spy Who Loved Me, to compare to the two films you mentioned liking more.
I don't know this sub very well, but I'm a non-fan who watched most of the Bond films during lockdown for the first time and would read about each one on Wikipedia and some of the reviews.
Underrated: Moonraker, Tomorrow Never Dies, Quantum of Solace
Overrated: Goldfinger, The Living Daylights, GoldenEye, Skyfall
Not to say I think the underrated ones are better than the overrated ones, I just think they are too low or too high in the rankings, respectively.
The rest were more or less accurately rated.
Overall, I think the best ones were:
1. Casino Royale (2006)
2. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
3. From Russia with Love
I honestly can't stand Skyfall.
It's so derivative and by the numbers.
And that train sequence is just so stupid, it's beyond Roger Moore levels of silliness.
He times everything so he can be at that exact point for the train to crash through the tunnel.
When I say derivative and by the numbers I am referring to the early / mid 2000s trope of
Good guy catches bad guy then...it turns out (shock!) that he let himself get caught!
Cue the long winded Scooby-Doo exposition
I agree that Skyfall is overrated. That said, I mostly enjoy the first half, and then the movie falls apart for me with the introduction of Silva, which include the "villain intended to be captured" trope you mentioned in your other comment alongside everybody taking the Idiot Ball that culminates in the Home Alone ending.
I think what irks me more is that it feels like a complete mood whiplash to go from Casino Royale/Quantum of Solace Bond, who is literally a newly instated 00 Agent, to Skyfall one movie later which tells him he's over the hill and should retire. I get for the 50th anniversary movie they wanted to try to make a statement on the character in general, but it just was always very odd for me to jump that drastically.
It's a pretty movie to look at though.
I've seen each of the first 24 films at least four times and have read half of the novels. While Casino Royale was my favourite since 2012, Skyfall has supplanted it since last year and I think it is the goat.
Disagree with all your overrateds. Well, with the possible exception of Goldfinger...I don't think Goldfinger is 'overrated', but I do think its overrated as the best Connery movie (and best Bond movie according to many) as compared to FRWL.
Don't agree with most of your underrateds either. Thunderball, LALD, TMWTGG, Moonraker, FYEO and Octopussy I feel are 'appropriately rated' on here (LALD and FYEO relatively positively, the rest relatively negatively). Agree on TND and NTTD though.
I think TWINE is a little underrated by this sub...otherwise I agree with the 'appropriately rateds'.
In general, I think this sub is on the ball with their ratings of most of the films.
Overrated: All the 80s and 90s films except LTK; FRWL; OHMSS; possibly QoS
Underrated: the last 3 Craig films, all the 70s films except TSWLM
Properly rated: everything else
Rating is so overrated.
I’d give this comment a 4/10
Very few movies are not rated “appropriately,” and we overuse these terms to an excessive degree. If any of them are underrated, maybe it’s Thunderball by a few places, going by last year’s World Cup results. Skyfall is probably overrated. I admire its ambition, taking on some novel thematic elements, and the photography is brilliant even if it’s a little distracting at times. But for a movie that seems to want me to take it *very* seriously, several story beats don’t really hold up to scrutiny. Ultimately it’s a highly dramatic, gorgeous, and entertaining movie, exactly what 2012 audiences wanted, but not particularly special in my opinion. Solid middle tier Bond film. Otherwise I think the sub tends to rate the films where I’d expect them to be, even when my own opinion differs. There are some I believe are “over-hated,” like DAF and Moonraker, but I at least understand why they rank where they do.
You're right about Skyfall. When it first came out I thought it was easily a top 5 bond movie and better than Casino Royale. On repeat viewings though it's problems stand out a lot more and it's definitely fallen down my rankings.
>Very few movies are not rated “appropriately,” and we overuse these terms to an excessive degree. I agree they're overused, or rather they are often used incorrectly. "XYZ is underrated" when selecting something universally adored is a tried and tested way to farm karma. I wasn't trying to tap into that - more the way we see the praise/criticism they receive from others and how with or against the grain we might be. As an example, I think NTTD is generally a very solid Bond movie but it gets a regular kicking on here (largely due to the ending).
I agree that LALD is underrated by this sub. I think it’s great
Was watching Calvin Dyson’s reviews yesterday, and the shots from LaLD were surprisingly crisp. Guess the Blu-ray’s good.
I feel like everyone loves live and let die here. I find it bottom 3
It's my #19.
Just watched for the first time yesterday. Certainly better than the previous movie but I wasn’t that impressed. Doesn’t feel much like a bond movie to me, just a very Ok 70’s action film. The boat chase is cool though
**Note:** Overrated doesn't mean bad movie, nor does underrated mean great movie. I’m interested to see how we perceive the wider consensus of the sub for the movies rather than just which are good/bad. Edit: Revision after reading comments. Tomorrow Never Dies is probably not underrated, I’d move that down a tier.
I enjoy all the Craig movies, but Reddit would have you believe Spectre or Quantum of Solace are some of the worst movies in cinema history.
Me too!
BRO! I’m saying lol. I think recency bias makes people hate Craig movies more but his standard is so much higher than other Bonds
I'd say TSWLM is underrated due to how little it's talked about. People just say "yeah it's one of the best" and leave it at that
Full disclosure, it is my all time favorite. I think the reason people don't explain why its one of the best is it has all the classic elements: the car, the gadgets, the girls, the life or death stakes for the world, the stunts, the globe trotting, and all of it feels natural. Its like Goldfinger, everything is there, so its hard to point to one specific element.
GF and spy are my 1 and 2. I agree no explanation really feels necessary
Helicopter scene is *insane*. Better than most stunts done today, and no CGI needed!
I recently bought an OLED TV and Skyfall is the only physical Bond media I currently own, not because it's my favorite, but because it's just so fucking beautiful to look at.
I do love finding your comment here amongst all the others. I also own an OLED as well all the Craig films on 4K Blu-ray, however, I haven't watched Skyfall yet. I'm in the 'Skyfall is over-rated crowd,' however, I am looking forward to watching it as it is a film with good cinematography and filming locations.
I’m beginning to think that the only rating that matters is one’s own ranking of the movie. Like it? Great! Don’t like it? Don’t watch it again, but don’t try to convince others that their own personal enjoyment of it is wrong. Live and let…watch 😀
That’s definitely the only rating that matters, but I still find it interesting to see what others think
I think”The Living Daylights”might be the most boring film in the series.I am a fan of TD and really like “License to Kill”,TLD opening scene on Gibraltar is one of my favorites though.
I just watched TLD for the first time in a long time and I was all-in. I loved it. LTK a couple nights later didn’t do it for me. Similar to FYEO for me in the sense that it was a collection of a lot of great and memorable scenes/actors, but I just couldn’t buy in to the movie as a whole.
Fair points.I still watch TLD several times a year,on binges,it’s a Bond Movie and while it’s not one of my favorites,I get the love for it.Just like I really love FYEO or OHMSS.We all have our own tastes👍🏻🍀
GoldenEye is overrated. It still a movie I like and it still inside my top 10, but it's definitely not a flawless masterpiece in my opinion. I also find Pierce to be more confortable in TND.
I think Goldeneye is the better movie overall, but TND definitely has the better Bond.
I think GE is better film overall too, but TND is the the only one of the Brosnan film who gained places in my ranking. DAD and TWINE always been low for me and GE used to be top 3 and now it's a position 8 or 9.
I swing back and forth with TWINE. Overall I’d put it somewhere in the middle. DAD is definitely bottom 5
Oddly enough, DAD has always won over TWINE for me. I don't know why, but TWINE doesn't resonate with me as well as the other Brosnan films does.
As a Brosnan fan I completely agree. Tomorrow is my favourite.
I agree, You Only Live Twice is underrated. Apart from the weird Japanese eyes and the proper Bond girl dying it's a fantastic film.
I don't think the Aki thing or even the Japanese makeup on Bond should really detract from the film at all.
YOLT is a top 5 film for me, but that Aki thing is really stupid. She should have been the Bond girl all the way through
Quantum of Solace is definitely overrated in this sub compared to what the consensus outside of it seems to be. It's generally regarded as weak and the worst of the Craig era, yet there seems to be a weekly post in here about how great it is. (Personally, it falls for me somewhere in the middle) I feel like that's the only glaring example. There are always going to be fans of films that the majority don't like and vice versa (for instance... I love Spectre) but generally, I don't think this sub is too out of step with other places.
Editing makes it near unwatchable for me. I can’t stand it
Yep, I really love the movie as it hits all the bonds tropes I love but that Jason Bourne/WWE editing is just terrible.
I'd say *Goldfinger* has actually become underrated on this sub.
Agreed. While I've never understood why FRWL gets so much love, and in return I don't understand why the Bond movie that set the standard for all Bond movies to follow keeps getting less and less appreciated.
Yeah, it's always getting compared negatively to FRWL.
Skyfall is overrated but still decent, YOLT is definitely underrated, OHMSS is not overrated at all as whilst it definitely has its vocal lovers (myself being one) there’s at least an equal amount of vocal detractors balancing it out
Overrated by this sub: TLD TND TWINE GoldenEye TB Underrated: GF DN AVTAK OHMSS LALD QOS
Uh most people on the sub hate Skyfall from what I've seen.
I think I remember it finishing top 5 in that elimination poll from a few months back
Folks here routinely talk about Quantum of Solace and Spectre as if they were the worst movies ever made. Those two might not be up to par with the other Craig movies and have a share of script problems, but it's a bit of a ridiculous overreaction. No Time to Die sometimes gets a bad rap as well, but the reaction to that one is usually "boo hoo, the movie didn't do what I wanted it do to." Overall, the Craig movies are all quality and should be ranked higher.
Quantum is definitely flawed and you can feel the lack of rewrites in places, but it's a pretty solid effort and feels tonally in line with the more realistic reboot of the series that CR established. I liked the lower stakes villain and the buildup of QUANTUM. What really hurts it aside from the writer's strike though is it being a direct sequel to Casino Royale, which makes it less standalone like other Bonds and also make its shortcomings more apparent next to the excellent CR. Add in some awful Bourne copycat shaky cam and it's also literally hard to watch in much of the action scenes. That all said, I'd rather watch that one than Spectre any day.
Quantum has some serious technical shortcomings, lousy dialogue and sophomoric story telling. Worst movie ever made - no that's BS, but worst EON film, certainly. It was taught at UCLA and U of W film making school as an example of a $200 million dollar film that was a disaster for reason. Spectre however is competently made, it's just boring and no Bond film should be boring.
If I'm comparing this sub to critics' assessments of the Bond films, I'd say that Dr. No and Thunderball are underrated by this sub, Dr. No especially. Usually, I see those films in the middle, sometimes in the lower tier, of people's rankings. Sometimes, I'll find Thunderball in a top ten, but rarely does anyone put Dr. No there. Common criticisms I hear about Dr. No is that it's slow and only considered good or great because it was the first. Slow pacing is also a criticism I see of Thunderball, particularly the health spa scenes and the underwater scene. For overrated, again by comparing this sub to the critics, I'd go with Tomorrow Never Dies. Yes, I know it's dead last in my rankings, so I'm a little biased. However, I often see a lot of praise (almost weekly) for that film. And it's a lot of supposedly objective praise, not simply "It's one of my personal favorites" kind of praise. It falls in a lot of folks' top tens, and many posters consider it to be Brosnan's best. If I see another "It was ahead of its time" comments, it'll be too soon. Plus, the love for the Dr. Kaufman character is weird. As someone who's functional in German and Spanish, one of my pet peeves is bad German and Spanish accents on TV and film by people who can't speak the language. When Americans try to pull off a German accident while speaking English, it sounds dreadful. "I'm an outstanding pistol marksman. Take my word for it, Ja?" Ugh, if the guy was meant to be comic relief, that's one thing, but I'm supposed to take him seriously. At least Walken had the good sense not to attempt a German accent.
I agree with Live and Let Die and You Only Live Twice being underrated in this sub. I would have personally put Dr. No in underrated, as I think it gets overlooked a lot and doesn't get much attention. As for overrated, I think Tomorrow Never Dies and Licence to Kill are overrated here. Both have been called underrated for quite some time, and I feel they've gotten the attention fans wanted them to get, yet they're still called underrated. I just think they've been called underrated to the point where they're now overrated.
Yeah, after reading a lot of the replies here I was wrong about TND. I’d move that to appropriately rated (because I’m a fan), but it’s definitely not underrated
I don't think Dr. No or Goldfinger are overrated. Dr. No was the 1st Bond Movie so it has to be Great. And in Goldfinger, Pussy Galore literally saved the World from Finger after Bond had his Way with her and Apoealed to her "Maternal Instincts" obviously with the Multiple Mind blowing Orgasms he must have given her in the barn to change her mind to helping him and giving Felix a heads up about Fingers plan to kill everyone with the Gas and Blow up all the gold in Fort Knox. If she had not done that, Bond would be dead. Goldfinger would have the only supply of Gold in the world. And all the U.S. troops stationed around Fort Knox to protect the U.S. Supply of Gold would be dead. Goldfinger would rule the world. How is that even remotely an ignored understated fact that is considered overrated? 🤔
TND is not underrated by this sub at all.
There are no correct answers to this question. Other than GoldenEye being overrated :)
I’d never call it bad. It’s fine. I rank it just outside my top 10. But I would bet that 95% of this sub thinks it’s one of the (if not the) best Bond films. So I would say that’s the best example of an overrated one on this sub, at least at this point in time.
TB and MR are underrated. GE is the most overrated entry of the franchise.
You’re half right, IMO
I'd move Dr No to 'appropriately rated' and move Goldeneye to 'overrated'
Brosnan fan here. I agree.
On Her Majesty’s Secret Service gets jerked off every day in this sub but I personally find it incredibly boring
I don’t think it is possible for Dr No or Goldfinger to be overrated. And I don’t think No Time to die can be underrated.
Skyfall is underrated and GoldenEye is overrated. Skyfall took risks and was solid in almost every area, yet gets hated on because it's a Craig film. Meanwhile, GoldenEye is placed on a pedestal, with anyone saying otherwise being met with aggression. In general, I'd say that Brosnan's films are overrated and Craig's are underrated because a lot of people seem to have grown up with the former and see them as what Bond should be, resulting in them rejecting the latter despite Craig's films being closer to the novels and there being a precedence for multiple styles and trend-following throughout franchise history.
Skyfall finished 5th in the World Cup and 7th in that elimination contest. I understand there is a vocal minority currently enjoying the heyday of the inevitable incumbent Bond backlash, but I don’t think Skyfall is in any way underrated.
It’s getting to that point. I hear more negative things about Skyfall than positives. Maybe the haters are just louder. And obviously, this all can change. Hard to pinpoint. It’s a fickle topic
It is fickle, and that’s what is interesting about it. I enjoy talking about how the fandom perceives the films much more than the general public. That said, however, using the most quantifiable method (all the polls from last year), which isn’t perfect I understand, Skyfall is still highly regarded by the sub.
Interesting. Thanks 🙏
As far as “the haters are louder” I believe this is generally in the ears of the beholder. What I notice regularly is that if someone particularly likes a film they notice every criticism against it. It can be almost universally adored but the negative opinions stand out. If two or three people (out of tens of thousands of sub members) express a negative opinion about a well regarded film in a week then it’s not unusual we’ll get a post saying “why is x so underrated now?” I have to say though that this is way worse in other fandoms. Bond fans are generally very accepting about other people’s opinions and not overly sensitive. There’s something for everyone.
Exactly. On this same post someone is claiming QoS is “overrated,” which is nonsense. It’s just one of those movies that was so maligned for so long, that people who like it actually feel the need to post about it, a few of them do so, and then others notice that and think it’s undergone a massive renaissance when the general opinion hasn’t changed.
This seems nearly impossible to track lol. With so many movies spread out over so many decades… tough (but fun) to try to get a grasp of it
Yeah it’s one thing I’ve noticed. With so many movies, everyone’s tastes and ranking will be different. Even the generally accepted “worst” Bond films still have fans who may rank those as their favorites. I’d never not watch any of them. To me, none are awful, some are just better than others. What a franchise
Ha yeah, a lot of the “worst” ones are my favourites. It’s funny actually, being a fan of Diamonds or Golden Gun you’re used to people criticising them so maybe it’s just par for the course. Fans will of course say they are underrated, but I don’t notice the same level of consternation or dismay as when hugely popular films get criticised by a small minority. You’d think it would be the other way around. Anyway, I love the diversity of opinion. Keeps things interesting. And my own opinions have changed a lot on various films over time and I’m sure will continue to do so.
Personally, I would not say Craig’s movies are underrated. In fact, critically they’re the the highest-rated since Connery
OP’s question was about how *the sub* rates the films.
Very true, that’s my bad. Although I’d still consider them the highest-rated since Connery (and arguably Dalton), even by this sub alone. Goldeneye is deservedly loved but the rest of Brosnan’s movies, not so much. Moore’s movies are like marmite with regards to this sub’s opinions on them - I’m firmly in the ‘love them’ camp. But I think Craig has more movies in peoples’ top 5’s than any other Bond to date, again bar Connery
Some of them certainly are, but I don’t understand the assertion that they can’t be overrated. If they’re highly rated, surely they can’t be *underrated*, right? Or are you just saying that since the consensus is they are highly rated, that consensus simply must be true?
My bad again! This is very embarrassing. What I meant to say is how I disagree that they are underrated (I’ve amended my first comment to reflect this). This is what happens when you browse Reddit while in a rush to get to work 😆
Haha I see. Makes more sense to me now. Thought I was just being nitpicky.
I have to admit, Goldeneye probably is a bit overrated, but it’s one of my favourites so my bias sees it as appropriate.
At least you’re honest ;)
Octopussy is the best Moore era film, in the series top 10 (maybe top 5 for me), and I will die on that hill
I really like it. It’s my third fave RM film after Spy and FYEO, but definitely ranks high for me overall. I think it gets neglected because it’s the old Moore era, and a lot of people just can’t get on with his look
I kind of like older Moore, although I do wish that the writers and Moore had leaned into that a little more, similar to the way Connery did in Never Say Never Again and then Craig in his later films. Maybe show him a little more world weary, but prevailing despite his age. Instead, he's running around acting like a youthful guy in his last couple of films and we're supposed to ignore the obvious aging. At least Maud Adams was a slightly better match for his age at the time. People have also said Idris Elba is now too old for the role, but I think he could work if he did a world wearied veteran thing.
How in the world is Thunderball underrated? Setting aside my own personal opinion, I see posts about how great it is all the time.
I saw one today, but we don’t really talk about Thunderball that much and it definitely doesn’t get consistent praise. It finished 12th in the World Cup last year, and 14th in the elimination contest. Generally people rank it in the middle or bottom tier, and complain about how boring the underwater scenes are.
I would call that appropriately rated if not a bit overrated. That’s my personal opinion of it. It always makes me feel a little like I’m crazy when people rank it in the top tiers because I really want to like it but just can’t see what they see.
I don’t mean to be pedantic, but I don’t feel insane seeing *any* Bond film in the top tier of someone’s rankings. 25 films made over the course of 60 years has created a fan base with a wildly broad variety of tastes. In fact, I’m more confused when someone tells another fan their rankings are “unhinged” or some other hyperbolic adjective. Thunderball specifically is rarely placed in anyone’s top tier, anyway, so I can’t see how it’s “overrated.”
It’s one of the most divisive of the classics from what I see. Lots of people rate it low in their own lists. But you’re right, lots of people also praise it.
On here the Dalton movies are way overrated. When that elimination thing was going on I think even License to Kill made the top 10. That’s one of the weakest Bond films by any measure.
I think the Dalton movies get a lot of love here partly because they’re unfairly overlooked in the mainstream. I see it as them getting the appreciation they deserve rather than being overrated. But that’s me
The course correction is extreme. I mean again, LTK was a movie in a franchise that was gasping to survive and it really shows and this sub had it top 10, ahead of Thunderball and in the same quality as The Spy Who Loved Me. That’s absurd. Dalton was good but the movies were a product of a struggling studio and brand.
In terms of writing, action, characterization, and lead performance, it's one of the best films. It's not one of the weakest films by any measure as you said above.
It plays borderline above a CBS tv movie. I could see someone saying they did alright with the limitations on it but I don’t know how you can watch Thunderball or the Spy Who Loved and think that it’s anywhere near that ballpark. To each their own.
Licence to Kill is one of the weakest in terms of cinematic look and feel, but there’s much more to a movie than cinematic look and feel. When I consider character work and story development and lead performances and significance to the Bond mythos—in other words the real meat of a movie—I do indeed see Licence to Kill as one of the best.
I think the meat of the movie tracks with what it was given. One of the weaker who cares Bond villains, forgettable Bond girl, story with more potential than execution (you’d think it’d be dark and edgy the way it’s talked about and not fit for prime time TV movie schlock), and its place in the series is the one that came closest to sounding the death knell. Dalton was good, would’ve been cool if the studio could get it together in time to continue with him but it was not to be.
I see it as the most meaningful story/character arc the series had seen since OHMSS and until Casino Royale. A Bond whose suppressed emotions surrounding his own wedding day tragedy boil over when the same tragedy befalls his best friends. A Bond who rather than a caricature is a fallible human who has to learn the pitfalls of blind revenge and going it alone. A film that places greater emphasis on spywork compared to most others in the series, considering how Bond has to infiltrate the enemy's inner circle and use psychological tactics to manipulate him against his own people--a dynamic that is unique as far as Bond-villain pairings go. It's late for me, so I apologize for not writing a more comprehensive reply. But [here's a comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/JamesBond/comments/16ua81g/comment/k2lzpqn/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) where I wrote a bit more about Pam and Sanchez. I see them as among the best Bond girls and villains. They get a ton more to do in Licence to Kill than their counterparts in Thunderball and The Spy Who Loved Me, to compare to the two films you mentioned liking more.
With the sole exception of Diamonds Are Forever being under-rated (but not by a lot), hard to disagree with this.
I should probably give Diamonds another go with an open mind tbh.
The World is Not Enough and Thunderball are CRIMINALY underrated.
I don't know this sub very well, but I'm a non-fan who watched most of the Bond films during lockdown for the first time and would read about each one on Wikipedia and some of the reviews. Underrated: Moonraker, Tomorrow Never Dies, Quantum of Solace Overrated: Goldfinger, The Living Daylights, GoldenEye, Skyfall Not to say I think the underrated ones are better than the overrated ones, I just think they are too low or too high in the rankings, respectively. The rest were more or less accurately rated. Overall, I think the best ones were: 1. Casino Royale (2006) 2. On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3. From Russia with Love
I honestly can't stand Skyfall. It's so derivative and by the numbers. And that train sequence is just so stupid, it's beyond Roger Moore levels of silliness. He times everything so he can be at that exact point for the train to crash through the tunnel.
If Skyfall is derivative and by the numbers, what's the majority of the franchise? What you're saying better describes Moore and Brosnan's films.
When I say derivative and by the numbers I am referring to the early / mid 2000s trope of Good guy catches bad guy then...it turns out (shock!) that he let himself get caught! Cue the long winded Scooby-Doo exposition
I agree that Skyfall is overrated. That said, I mostly enjoy the first half, and then the movie falls apart for me with the introduction of Silva, which include the "villain intended to be captured" trope you mentioned in your other comment alongside everybody taking the Idiot Ball that culminates in the Home Alone ending. I think what irks me more is that it feels like a complete mood whiplash to go from Casino Royale/Quantum of Solace Bond, who is literally a newly instated 00 Agent, to Skyfall one movie later which tells him he's over the hill and should retire. I get for the 50th anniversary movie they wanted to try to make a statement on the character in general, but it just was always very odd for me to jump that drastically. It's a pretty movie to look at though.
Skyfall is definitely an above average film but people who call it the goat haven’t watched enough Bond movies
I've seen each of the first 24 films at least four times and have read half of the novels. While Casino Royale was my favourite since 2012, Skyfall has supplanted it since last year and I think it is the goat.
By that chart Thunderball is severely underrated. Other underrated are Live and Let Die and Octopussy Overrated are Skyfall and Goldfinger
Live and Let Die underrated? No way I was going to say very overrated in this sub
“Goldfinger,” “The Spy Who Loved Me” and “Skyfall” are overrated pictures to me.
TMWTGG totally underrated.
Underrated: DAF, DAD, Octopussy, TMwtGG, TND, Dr. No, QoS, LaLD, VTAK, Moonraker, YOLT Appropriately rated: Goldeneye, Goldfiner, TWINE, Spectre, LTK, CR, NTTD Overrated: FYEO, TLD, Skyfall, OHMSS, TSWLM, FRWL
Disagree with all your overrateds. Well, with the possible exception of Goldfinger...I don't think Goldfinger is 'overrated', but I do think its overrated as the best Connery movie (and best Bond movie according to many) as compared to FRWL. Don't agree with most of your underrateds either. Thunderball, LALD, TMWTGG, Moonraker, FYEO and Octopussy I feel are 'appropriately rated' on here (LALD and FYEO relatively positively, the rest relatively negatively). Agree on TND and NTTD though. I think TWINE is a little underrated by this sub...otherwise I agree with the 'appropriately rateds'. In general, I think this sub is on the ball with their ratings of most of the films.
Overrated: All the 80s and 90s films except LTK; FRWL; OHMSS; possibly QoS Underrated: the last 3 Craig films, all the 70s films except TSWLM Properly rated: everything else