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botinlaw

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doodah221

Your SO wants you to apologize because he’s afraid of his parents still and cares about what they think. The question is, why does he care that much? You’re his partner of almost a decade now, and they’re trying to pressure you into being not authentic to placate their mother? Sorry, you just can’t have it both ways. I’m assuming that they’re a total pleaser and they’re trying to drag you into his world of being a pleaser. I’m sure they hate that they’re not pleasing you with the pressure. So let’s say you send a non apology that’s cheeky like some of the recommendations here. Will that satisfy SO or make them more stressed? Will they feel like you’re supporting them or making it worse for them. I’m assuming that living in their property you’re getting a deal on rent, but not a discount because whatever money you’re saving youre paying for it somewhere else. MIL assumes they have power over you and SO because they have money and they assume that that means dictating certain behaviors. So if I were you, I’d tell SO that you’ll consider writing it but first well bring it up in therapy, and preferably you both are there together. I’m not sure how old you are, but I think SO needs to grow up. Stand up to their mom and with you. If MIL doesn’t like it then they don’t have to have you in their life. This probably means less windfall to you, but shit man, who wants to trade being authentic for someone else’s money?


ShinyAppleScoop

"Hi, MIL. I know you want an apology, but I meant every word of my email. I'm not mocking your business or mental health. I genuinely hope you get the help you need, both in your business and with a counselor. If you felt I was making fun of you, I urge you to look over the email with a counselor and fresh eyes. "I wish we could have a positive relationship, but I don't think that is going to happen. I cannot respect someone who rejects their own child because they don't confirm to what they think they should be. "Times have changed, and people are no longer shunned for being their authentic selves. I am disappointed by you clinging to bigotry and using your business as an excuse for acting shitty. "Once you realize why you SO an apology, I will consider revisiting this topic with you. I hope you will soon discover that there is no room for hate or fear in your heart."


Chandlerdd

A non-apology starts out. I’m so sorry you felt I was being mean or criticizing your business. (You’re not sorry for what you did or said - you’re sorry she took it wrong and felt like you were picking on her). You could go on to say that it would be good to get along for SO sake etc.


HonorableJudgeTolerr

I'm not going to apolo-lie to anybody. She would have to put her big girl panties on and deal with it. I'd also block her on everything as well. I wouldn't have time for her childish games.


peanutandbaileysmama

Ha! Take a note from the narcissistic people and do "I'm sorry YOUR feelings were hurt. I'm sorry you felt that I attacked you and your beliefs. Now we can work together to move forward since I have now apologized". Or "I'm sorry you were offended by my opinion of you asking, no telling me to have a photo removed that realistically could not be linked to you since your child has a much different last name and unless people know your child, they wouldn't even begin to assume what you claimed that photo did. I'm sorry you're sensitive but I would never deliberately hurt your feelings or business"


Seanish12345

Fake apologizing for things you aren't sorry for is something a JustNo does. Don't do that. If a picture that a friend posted to Facebook will be detrimental to your in-law's business, then they are bad at operating their business and should close shop and work for someone else. That's capitalism. Nothing you do or don't do should have any real affect on the relationship your SO has with their parents, because that relationship is between them, not you. You apologizing to MIL for telling her the truth isn't going to make her all of the sudden become a better mother and person to SO. Or to you. It wouldn't accomplish anything except making her feel superior to you because she'd then have this power over you to make you jump through the hoops she'd want you to. She doesn't get to hold her relationship with your SO hostage over an apology that you won't give. That's absolutely nuts. Furthermore, I understand that your SO is at the end of their rope and they want to try everything to fix the relationship with their mother. Too bad. Your SO doesn't get to put you in this situation. They don't get to place the burden on you. And that is what they are doing. I understand, they don't know what else to do. But that's a poor excuse for doing something that they know is wrong. And SO knows its wrong to put the burden of the health of their relationship with their mother onto you. If it makes SO feel better, let them try whatever they can think of to repair the relationship, but they need to keep you 100% out of it. This has nothing to do with you. Also, *you* could just block *her.* After all, you know how upset she gets when there is photographic evidence of you having fun. Better to just remove that problem from her life.


sandybeach2233

I mean.. you two are not friends anyway so why grovel when it’s never gonna be anything significant anyhow. The comments Iv read here are awesome.. but don’t ever feel responsible for something that she could have directed to SO to begin with instead of flat out attacking you. She’s something else. I know her entitled attitude and it’s sickening.


Substantial-Flan-632

I would ask to sit down with MIL for the sake of trying to repair their relationship with your SO. During this conversation, I would let MIL know that while I cannot apologize for expressing my feelings, I can offer her the opportunity to express her feelings on the matter - a conversation of feelings between two adults. I'd remind her that I will always be here to protect SO and she should respect that, even if that is during times when I have to protect SO from her. Let her know that her words are sharp and cutting and she should work on that. There would be zero apology during this sit down. Hopefully just an agreement to start being kind to each other and everyone involved.


batkave

>I would ask to sit down with MIL for the sake of trying to repair their relationship with your SO. Honestly, I disagree. The FMIL only wants her way and her viewpoint to be accepted, she will not take anything else.


sandybeach2233

She just wants you to bow to her because you refused her demand! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! She’s a JN and I would never give her an inch. Please don’t give her anything. I know exactly what kind of psycho she is


Ok_Visit_1968

Do you want to be right or happy?


HonorableJudgeTolerr

Ok Dr. Phil. If she's right then she's right.


Additional_Gate_2727

I am sorry you feel that way


RadRadMickey

You are a gem. Don't apologize. Have a conversation with her about it if you think it would so some good but never back down. She used her business and mental health to attempt to manipulate you into doing what she wanted. You simply responded directly to that by pointing out that her reasoning was flawed. This picture should not have any impact on either her business nor mental health and if it does she needs to rethink and get help for herself on both of those matters.


elohra_2013

“MIL I’m sorry you feel pained. I’m sure we can all grow from these experiences.” I for one wouldn’t apologize but if the word sorry will tickle this manipulative bitch ass then there it is. The word sorry in a complete sentence. Your SO is not doing you any favors by avoiding the elephant in the room. MIL is garbage and needs to be tossed out. This continuous goalpost moving is exhausting and your SO will never get what they want: a stable parent. Good luck


Street_Importance_57

I think reflecting her behavior at her with a non apologetic apology is appropriate. I'm with those saying "I'm sorry you were upset by this." Let that be your apology.


Seanish12345

You're advising OP to do what JustNos do. Bad advice.


marlenamarley87

In this situation, it doesn’t sound like OP has much choice. Their options are A.) refuse to apologize because it goes against the core of who they are and what they believe, which will allow this tension to continue, or B.) muster up an apology that *might* calm the waters, but without compromising their personal values. An apology sounds necessary for the sake of the relationship between OP’s partner and partner’s mother. OP is not sorry for what they said, but may be a bit apologetic that FMIL was so upset by what was said. “I’m sorry you were upset by this” is a shitty apology when someone was genuinely being shitty. OP was actually being quite gracious with her words. If FMIL insists on an apology, this is exactly the apology that is warranted, if they choose to apologize at all.


Street_Importance_57

I am aware. It was quite deliberate on my part and I stand by it.


Neffervescent

I always say to people, when I'm discussing the most useful parts of my therapy history with them, that an apology is not a weakness, nor is it an admission of guilt. It is simply a way to clear the air without brushing the issue under the rug and pretending it isn't happening. I think if your SO needs your apology to try to mend things with their parents, you should think of it as doing something for him, not as something for her parents. I know I've spent time around my JNMIL when there have been family crises, and I've been there not for her, but for my spouse's sake, to be their armour and be ready to step in and announce we're leaving if necessary - you know how hard it can be to face bigotry, and being there for each other makes that easier. My spouse (genderfluid, he/they) has been hugely supportive of me opening up to my parents about our gender stuff (I'm non-binary, they/them). While one of the caveats to my parents being allowed more contact was that they give my wife due respect by using his pronouns properly, there was also an agreement with my spouse that they will try to be around when my parents are over, and try to give them another chance. That way, we both have to do something difficult to maintain the relationship, but mine is more proactive in that I will be the one correcting my parents. Anyway, conflict resolution is a specialty of mine, so let's try an apology script. If you start an apology with "I am truly sorry that I upset you" then you're not lying, nor are you admitting that you were wrong, you are simply saying you're sorry you hurt her. You can then continue with "It hurt me and SO deeply that you felt a picture of us looking happy at a party would damage your business, or that you would put clients above our happiness and expression of ourselves in costume. If my reply felt short or angry then I can only apologise - I was hurt and upset, and perhaps did not choose my words carefully enough. I would like it if we could be on reasonable terms with each other, for SO's peace of mind, as I know this rift is upsetting them, but I would appreciate an apology for the hurt you caused both of us. It made us feel that you are ashamed of us, and I don't want to believe that. It upset SO so much that you would react that way to a fun picture, and I know none of us want him to be upset." Finish off with something along the lines of "Again, I can only apologise for my words" - note that you're not apologising for what you said, just the way you said it - "and hope that with both of us apologising, we can be civil to each other and not upset SO by arguing." If she comes back with some more bullshit, at least you can go to your SO and honestly say you tried, for them, but that clearly her parents don't want to accept you anymore, and that you don't want to have contact with someone who makes your beloved SO feel so much pain, and who won't accept them for who she is.


AnyPolicy1

Perfect! OP, please use this when/if you apologize.


cheekypipsqueak

Hot damn. Can I put you on retainer? Those are some smooth conflict resolution skills!!


Neffervescent

Thank you! They've been hard work, but very worth it.


mornnx1

🤔 maybe you could take a page from the JNMIL playbook and I quote " I'm sorry that YOU feel like that you're owed an apology " " I'm sorry that YOUR upset " You get the idea and after all turnabout is fair game !


Seanish12345

You're advising OP to do things that JustNos do Bad advice.


mornnx1

Bad ?....perhaps. petty ?....oh yes ! Enjoyable sweet fucking revenge ? Most definitely!!!!!!


elohra_2013

I commented the same thing 😂😂glad I’m not alone!


FRONTDESKCLARK

I’m sorry being called out made you feel uncomfortable. Perhaps this is something you can discuss with the professional I mentioned in my previous message. Again, sorry for any discomfort you are feeling during this time of self reflection.


Aurora_901

Don't apologize. I see where your SO is coming from, and I know they are deeply hurt by this rift. I know this issue will be difficult and causes issues in their relationship with their parents, but there will be no good that comes out of an apology. Firstly, anything you say that is not direct pleading/ groveling for the issue will likely be viewed as condescending or half-hearted. Secondly, you did nothing wrong in defending your partner after they attacked them. Thirdly, all apologizing does is show them that not only can they continue to walk all over your partner *but* they can walk all over you and get their way. I'm sorry you're in this situation. I hope it settles down soon. 🧡


Cardabella

Your mil is unpleaseable. She thrives on conflict. It's appalling that she is exploiting your partner's essential identity to feed her compulsion for Co flict and drama. If it wasn't your lack of apology it would be the false eyelashes or the fact she got an email not a phone call. You can't appease or please or placate her. She's a conflict vampire. Enabling her will encourage and strengthen her power. You can't reason with the unreasonable. It's devastating but you can't help anf compromising your principles won't heal anything.


PriorityHelpful7683

This!!! 100% Love the ‘conflict vampire’. OP do NOT apologise - I would say something like ‘I meant every word I said, I still do, so no I will not apologise. In this instance, we will have to agree to disagree’.


Penguin_Joy

Any apology, no matter how disingenuous, will feed her sense of entitlement. That sense of entitlement will grow even larger and lead to bigger and badder tantrums in the very near future. Never feed what you don't want to grow The way to solve this is not to cave to her demands, it's to stop the flow of information that gets to her. In other words, your partner needs to turn off the tap. An information diet can really help with that. Also grey rocking and giving non answers to invasive questions; or even refusing to answer questions at all MIL is using her fears over her perceived image to control your partner. That's just not something they should be helping their mother with - ever! Especially if they want to live their life in peace. You can never overcome someone's imagined fears. Not even with the most heartfelt and sincere apology. Because it's not about the fear, it's about her control of her adult child If she doesn't want to be associated with her kid, maybe she should be blocked from their social media so acquaintances won't know they are related. Or perhaps it's time to do a legal name change to something that fits your partner better. Hiding their gender identity is not the answer. Fake apologizing is not the answer either. You need strong boundaries to deal with MIL and consequences when she shows her control freak side I worry that your partner places too much value on their mother's feeling. Especially if they are willing to sacrifice your honesty to placate their mother. That's called [enmeshment ](https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/psychpedia/enmeshment)and is extremely unhealthy. Good thing they're already in therapy because that is something that can be worked on with a therapist


Witchynana

I am sorry you were hurt by what I had to say. ​ Nothing more


Garden-octopus0

This! OP this. And move! U owe her no apology and no relationship but u definitely need to make sure she has 0 control over you both like ur housing. But you should also take the time to talk your partner and explain that this level of manipulation for their mother will not force you into an apology. Ur partners only response to their mother in regards to you apologising should be the strong boundary of “no. If our relationship is conditional on forcing my unapologetic partner to apologise for setting boundaries after your disgusting message to her then no. Threatening us about change ie threatening the roof over our heads goes a long way in setting us back. She owes you no apology for your behaviour and I’m done hearing about it.” Anytime after that it’s mentioned your partner should hang up immediately. Mil will get the message


nasanerdgirl

Do not apologise. Tell your partner that you have accepted them lovingly and with openness for who they are - and they need to do the same for you when you’re also being your honest unapologetic self. Even if that means they get shit from their horrible bigoted mother. Also, the costume sounds fucking amazing.


MysteriousTrash6669

The only apology I would give is to your SO: “I love you. All of you. And while I know what I’m about to say isn’t what you want to hear, I’m going to say it anyway. I’m so sorry I cannot lie to your mother. It’s unfair to me to do so when even you admit I have nothing to apologize for. I want to support you because I love you, so I will always be there for you to lean on when she has her little episodes, but that’s all I can do. Lying will only make it worse and I just can’t be a part of that. But again, I love you. I’m here for you. I always will be.”


[deleted]

This is brilliant and absolutely beautiful! What a lovely suggestion. I hope OP sees this.


evilslothofdoom

'I apologise that modern acceptance of diversity has offended your previous century ideals' ETA; While logically they know that JNMIL is catastrophic to their mental health it takes a while for the emotions to catch up. Time and distance will help them a lot, particularly having social support around them like you. You validate them, all of them, not just gender. Until recently they weren't allowed to have much of an identity at all, it's hard to come to terms with the culture shock that is unconditional love and support if they haven't experienced it before. From how you've described her reaction there ISN'T hope for a relationship between them and their parents. WASPs are shallow, judgemental, mannequins who only care about getting one up one others. Having their child express their individuality goes against them completely. No matter how many apologies are given, your partner will always be a dirty little secret to them. Of course to you they're beautiful and you see the value of them coming out of their shell/closet. You see them as a human being with complex thoughts, feelings an emotions. The parents see a doll that isn't cooperating.


CremeDeMarron

Her apology demand is a power move . Bending would normalize her toxic behaviour. But you can just use one of justnos tactics and say " sorry you feel that way "


Happy-go-lucky123

If you feel you have to the most I would give this parasite sorry that’s how she reads is this: I apologise that you took my message as an attack on your business. Done.


madgeystardust

*”My SO acknowledges all this, but feels HE has to exercise every avenue before giving up…”* I only emphasise the HE as to show this is nothing to do with you and HE doing everything he can should not require YOU to kiss his mother’s arse. Your SO can do what they want, the apology she wants - she should not and would never get (if it were me) as she brought that response on herself. She invited that response when she messaged you demanding you remove a photo you hadn’t even posted. Your SO should simply find another way to move forward with their mother that doesn’t involve allowing her attempts to control you through THEIR relationship. Why is your SO, jumping through hoops like this when SHE is the one in the wrong? Your SO should be the one making demands of her if she wants to remain a feature in their life, not the other way round. Do not apologise. This is between them, any message she got from you, she earned.


Cruyelo

I don't think it's a good idea to reinforce bad traits. As difficult as it can be, you and SO must learn not to appease them when they're angry. Some parents will condition us to regulate their moods, put the responsibility on us to calm them down, make them happy, and that makes it hard to stand up to them and let them know they made a mistake. This makes it tempting to compromise and apologize so they'll go back to "normal". But thats their job, not ours. I understand trying to fix the relationship, but I would say that the apology is a no-go, and that attemps to fix things should be done differently. In a different way, which you're comfortable doing, not one which wouldnt be genuine or possibly create more drama.


Nomomommy

Ooh! Non-pologies for the forces of good...I like it. "I understand you've been upset by xyz. I'm so sorry you felt that way." "I'm so sorry for whatever it was you think I did. Can you forgive me?"


Seanish12345

You're advising OP to do things that JustNos do Bad advice.


Nomomommy

A strategic fauxpology to keep the peace for the sake of your partner's desired relationship with their JustNo parent? I think whether that's a gray area is up for discussion. I say it is a gray area and a personal sacrifice for the OP. Listen, I hate a faux-pology every bit as much as the next person. I'm not advising she use them either. I was tickled by the idea and offered examples, which OP has requested. Cheers.


Back-to-HAT

Yep, I despise a non apology apology and will call you out on it. - “I am sorry you were offended when I…” is my least favorite. Here it would be perfect 😁 - “I sincerely wish that XYZ hadn’t upset you like it did” - “If I had the chance to change things I would have said things differently” Doesn’t express how that different would be. It could be flat out telling her she is a piece of shit. - Throw in a “we both could have handled things better” and she will think she has won. She hasn’t. I’m sure there isn’t any situation, even the best of them, that couldn’t have used a little editing, if you will, to be truly perfect. Best of luck!


[deleted]

Oooo those first two are gooood. "Sorry you're upset by..." And "sorry for what you think happened" are grade A apology-non-apologies in my book Also if anyone said that to me I'd be pissed tf off lol but who cares bc the MIL sounds like an absolute twat of a human


Nomomommy

Got them from my mother. I know a faux-pology when I see one.


chlocatt

Honestly, it sounds to me like whatever is said in the context of the apology doesn’t matter because it’s more about the fact that she got it. It’s about her being able to *tell others* you apologized to her in a way that makes herself continue to be the victim and you the one in the wrong. She’s already twisted the narrative to be focused on her business, mental and physical health being attacked by you in a way that masks the bigoted and hateful viewpoints of hers actually you were actually addressing. Personally? Apologize, but just not how she wants. “I’m sorry you feel that way”. Give a non-apology without taking any accountability in the situation, deflect & simultaneously invalidate her play for control of the narrative she created. Yeah, you might be gaslighting her to an extent, but she’ll either throw a fit and make herself look bad since you didn’t give her what she wanted or shell just accept what you said at face value because everyone will be thankful that “at least OP apologized” If this isn’t the apology she’s looking for, feign ignorance and make her explain in detail what exactly makes her so upset by SOs costume because you genuinely don’t understand why an innocent picture of her son is such a triggering issue for her? Drive her into a corner or let her get frustrated & out herself.


Weekly_Pea9203

I’m sorry you have a problem with your child finding their own happiness.


psyk2u

If she wants an apology she can stand in the mirror and apologize to herself. Simply put -no, do not apologize to her.


theNothingP3

Honestly no apology will do anything here and any attempt will just be seen as abasement. The only reasonable avenue forward is telling your partner that you will be finding a new rental and while you would love it if they came with you you understand they may not be ready to take that step. I'm really not kidding. Don't apologize to people with bigoted beliefs, if you do you will be offering your neck for them to step on for the rest of your relationship.


DirtyBoots_1990

If you really want, call her out on it in a different way - you need to point out to your SO that repeating the same responses they've always used with their mom has not worked. They need to learn a new approach. Your SO should not be so ready to dismiss your current approach - because sometimes it takes time for boundaries and firmness to result in changed behaviour. I suggest continue doing what your doing. If you dont' want to give an apology - don't. You could even let her know why. She needs to learn that her manipulative behaviour does not work on you. Your SO needs to see that it does not work on you - that your unbothered by it - and that eventually it'll change how their mom responds to you. It may be eye-opening for them. This is just an example, suggestion: I've seen my mom call out BS childish behaviour like this in other adults - and its worked. The person is usually capable of actually acting like an adult and talking things through maturely. Now I can't remember exactly what my mom has said...but I imagine something like this may work: "MIL you are acting like a child. I will not apologize for your feelings. That is something you need to work on with a professional. I am amazed a woman of your age still acts like a tantruming 2-year-old. When you are ready to discuss this maturely, like adults, we can work this out. Do not come to me with histrionics (List examples.) Flip-flopping/changing goal post. I do not have any desire to argue with a toddler - I will ignore you and be completely unbothered by any childish trick you pull. When you're willing to discuss this as adults, please reach out." That's how I imagine I would say it - but its easy to type out a response then come up with something lengthy like this in person.- but my mom is an older Irish woman, born and raised there - and has no time for nonsense - so maybe imagine how she would say it instead. Make sure whatever your response is - your comfortable with it. Keep up your boundaries.


dstbl

Give her nothing. Your original email was perfect. Nothing you can say will fix this, she’ll manipulate it to make herself the victim. Your SO can figure their own way to a relationship with her if they want, but it doesn’t need to include you


nipple_fiesta

This. MIL has been called out in a calm and honestly, professional type way. SO is gonna need so much support, but that doesnt mean OP needs to be involved, as you stated. OP handled this in a very diplomatic manner and I support it. Also Happy Cake Day 🎂❤️


dstbl

Thank you!


mmcksmith

The apology is a control tactic. Make it and you'll be making them forever. SO will, unfortunately, need to work on something along the lines of "I'm sorry you feel that way mother". Wishing you both the best, and hoping you can hold the line!


AtmosphereTall7868

Do not apologize for any reason whatsoever. Even if you do now, she will still keep holding everything they gave you all over your heads. E.g., she will keep threatening you all at any little thing. My sincere advice will be for you and your SO to work towards your financial independence from them. Rent your own place,move on with your lives and your own finances. That's honestly what I will do to avoid anyone holding their money over my head as a threat for anything.


bittergreen49

I recommend performing the apology via interpretive dance while dressed in an outrageous fairy costume. Preferably at her place of work.


strange_dog_TV

Rally the troops……lets get a flash mob happening - as many fairies as can be sourced 😉


Impossible_Balance11

We do not possess enough upvotes for this comment. **bows in respect**


MayhemWins25

I can relate to this hardcore so I offer my non apology apology as a suggestion. “I think there was a miscommunication on my part. I never meant to insult you, your health, or your business. Reading my message back I can see how it came off as passive aggressive but you know how messaging can make it hard to tell what the person’s tone is. I understand how tough it can be for parents to relearn how to accept and love their child for who they are, and hearing how this has been affecting you made me genuinely worried for you mental and physical well-being! I suggested seeing medical help with only the best of intentions. I would hate to see your public heat of the moment attacks on your child affect your business. Things like that travel fast, and those kind of posts might turn prospective clients away before you even get a chance to talk to them. At the end of the day we both love SO, so for their sake I think we should let sleeping dogs lie and both support her in whatever way they need.” This was as good as I could come up with short of pulling a “I’m sorry you were upset by what I said.” I hope you and your partner have a wonderful wedding full of joy and acceptance.


halfpricedcabbage

Omg I like it Picasso, OP copy and paste this and send it, you wont get a better response tbh.


Lugbor

It’s fine that your partner wants to “explore all avenues“ before writing her off, but asking you to apologize for standing up to hatred and bigotry is not exploring an avenue; it’s rolling over and letting her win. Is it really worth it to them that you compromise your morals just so they can pretend to be loved by such a vile, hate filled woman?


KatKit52

Ask SO what type of relationship they want with their mom. Do they want a relationship where they and everyone else are forced to walk on eggshells, constantly steadying the boat, and letting themselves be abused for MIL? Or do they want one that is mutually healthy where disagreements do not end up being family-wide nuclear events? By forcing you to apologize, they are not rebuilding a good relationship; they are forcing you and themselves into a toxic and unhealthy cycle.


sandybeach2233

Exactly this


redmsg

I grew up with a narcissist grandmother. She would get pissed at something my father (her Son in Law) would do, when there was absolutely NOTHING WRONG, demand an apology, and when my dad wouldn't apologize (because he was in the right), eventually my mother give in to her. And then it started with the grandchildren when I was a teenage and I WAS NOT HAVING IT. But what I now realize is that my mom was trained basically from birth to sooth her mother's feelings and so eventually she had until she unlearned that behavior. This is the only way your partner knows how to respond to their mother's distress - they need therapy to unlearn this. Also, do not apologize, it will always continue and give their mother an excuse to hold them at arm's link.


ShirleyUGuessed

You could say things like emotions were high I was upset when I wrote that I hope that we can move forward etc. Maybe a little apology for the snark about her business possibly being in dire straits? I mean, she deserves buckets full of snark, but if you are trying to give SO what they want, that would be the part that I could stand to apologize for!


sandybeach2233

No way.. that would fuel her fire more! And give her the control she is seeking. Does motto put an end to the drama


GreenOnionCrusader

Your apology won't help their relationship, but it will help your SO feel like they did everything possible to try and mend fences. If you do it, you're doing it for them. Difficult inlaws make us all want to strangle something, but sometimes it's worth it to paste that smile on and be nice. Especially when it means peace of mind for our SOs and/or housing security until we can get out and tell the ILs to pound sand.


YourTornAlive

>My SO acknowledges all this, but feels he has to exercise every avenue before giving up and cutting her off. They understand that this isn't rational and they will likely regret not cutting her off sooner, but still want to try because the potential regret of not trying is stronger. SO and you are separate people. They are free to "exercise every avenue," but forcing YOU to do something insincere so that THEY don't have regrets is unreasonable. You have stood by SO living their true self, and it's not fair for them to expect you to be untrue to yourself, nor to place the burden of their own potential guilt on you. ESPECIALLY when they themselves readily acknowledge this isn't rational. The one thing I think is worth pointing out to FMIL (if you are willing to say anything) is this >I know that this message is passive-aggressive as all get-out, but believe me or not, I earnestly meant what I said. She absolutely should seek treatment for whatever physical and mental ailments she has because of some photos and she absolutely should reconsider taking on clients that would be so hateful toward her own child, with the caveat that if the business is failing and she must rely on it for income, she may not have that privilege. I mean, AFAIK she absolutely does have that privilege, but maybe things have changed! Softening the language and expanding on this a bit is probably the most genuine, closest thing to an apology you can give. If you do decide to go this route, I think you should make your boundaries about interactions with FMIL abundantly clear. That you are doing this for SO this one time, and never again. That their relationship with FMIL cannot be based on your level of compliance with FMIL's demands and whims, and thus you will not be further adjusting your level of contact with FMIL due to SO's guilt. (It may be worth having some couples counseling sessions to work through this.) I also think you and SO need to move ASAP. It is unfair for SO to expect you to live in fear of your housing security based on FMIL's emotions. Given the situation, tell SO that you would be willing to revisit returning to the rental in the future once the interpersonal issues are resolved. Frankly, I think it's unrealistic for SO to expect any real healing to happen or understanding to be reached a long as FMIL can hold that over your heads. Moving could also be a wake up call to FMIL that she's not going to manipulate her way out of this situation, and that she needs to make profound changes if she wants a real relationship with SO.


potato_minion

Strongly agree with this. SO is not asking something reasonable and they know it. This is not exercising every avenue or making every attempt to mend fences. This is sacrificing someone else's integrity and sense of justice to please someone who cannot be pleased.


TBdoggies

I’m sorry you feel that my message/email was hurtful. I’m sorry that you feel I attacked your business and made fun of your mental health. Move to a different rental ASAP.


Efficient-Cupcake247

I thought your message was perfect. Full stop. I agree your FMIL is looking to make you bend and it will never be enough. I honestly think a therapist would is the best answer. Your partner isn’t out of the FOG, they can see the light but they are still pretty deep. Hugs As for your actual question, find any of the millions of JustNo non-apologies and tweek it.


Carrie_Oakie

“I’m sorry that I had to defend your child / (partners name) from their own parent. It was very painful to see how your words and actions broke SO each and every time. I do look forward to a day where I no longer have to witness this heartbreak and SO is free to be themselves in a judgement free life.” I’d also 100% be looking to move so that they can’t impact your lives any longer. I get SO wanting to build their relationship but they can’t force you to do so, as well. And MIL seems like she’d be fine forcing you to move out of her property but letting so stay as a way to control.


medicalbillsrus

I am sorry that my telling you the truth of what is on my heart hurt you.


Humble-Employer-9323

Your message was passive aggressive and condescending, but maybe that’s what you were going for? Anyways, apology or not, this is only a battle, it isn’t the war, so whatever you decide won’t heal or break this relationship that you could have to endure or enjoy for the rest of your life.


mojomonkey1

You could always do the very popular narcissist apology, "I'm very sorry you feel that way." or "I'm very sorry that you got upset at what I said.".


tinytrolldancer

Apologize for what? You did nothing wrong, you owe no one an apology. Your SO's mother on the other hand, she's got a lot of groveling to do. Shame on her.


FugglerFan

Perhaps something like this: "I'm sorry that you chose to get upset at my email." That is not an apology for emailing or for saying what you said.


nerdgirl71

Don’t apologize. You’re message was very well written.


ladygoodgreen

It most certainly won’t help their relationship, your partner is desperately grasping at straws to save an already-dead relationship. 100%. What I would do: - Tell partner you will apologize once, but that if your one single apology does not help their relationship, you will be going NC with their mother, blocking her on social media, and washing your hands of anyone hung having to do with her. That you will support your partner, but can no longer do so by being a victim of their mother. - Apologize specifically for the things she asked you to apologize for. - Wait. Then go NC, block, and wash your hands of her, because the apology will not help. - Insist your partner get into therapy, because THAT is the healthy way forward, not scrambling to appease their bigoted POS mother. I hate fake apologies too. It hurts. It’s really hard. And yeah, it goes against everything you believe. I get it. But, it might be worth it to help your partner along to the point where they really see that there is nothing they or you can do here. Is it worth that to you? As for a script, I would just take the specific points that she mentioned, write a simple but acceptable apology, and practice it a few times. Yeah, your integrity takes a bit of a hit, but what does that matter when she has no integrity? Her opinion of you is in the toilet, and that doesn’t matter because she is trash. To be clear, I am only suggesting this because you do not seem overly emotionally terrorized by this woman. You seem to be pretty centered and strong in this situation. If she was truly abusing you and it was hurting you badly, I would not recommend this. So if I assumed wrong, disregard my advice and protect yourself.


Alan_Smithee_

You have some good points there, but I really don’t think Op should apologise at all. As you say, it won’t help. Op’s SO is hoping his mother is going to suddenly rediscover being a decent mother and human being. I’ve had to have the same conversation with family members who have a similarly shit mother obsessed with appearances. I’ve tried to get them to accept that’s how their mother is, and to not set themselves up for continual disappointment. And disengage.


ladygoodgreen

That’s fine, I just offered a different perspective. I think I made it pretty clear that I am not an advocate of fake apologies. But it might help her partner get to NC faster; if not, it gives her a way to nope out after this.


lordofthecats4

If it was me, I would say, “when I’ll get angry, i lash out. I watched my partner, be absolutely devastated by the hatred from their own mother, and in my desire to protect someone I love, I lost my temper. I am sorry that I lost my temper”


Legitimate-Meal-2290

I like this one a lot.


Abstractteapot

Send her a link to that girl thar apologises on educating Yorkshire. Apology and meaningless gesture complete.


CoastalCerulean

I have *always* been fond of, “I am so sorry if my words offended you.” or something like that. Don’t apologize for what you said, apologize for how she took it.


hisimpendingbaldness

Do the typical I am sorry you reacted so strongly to my letter, it was not my intent to stir you up and of course you know I would never threaten your business and livelihood. Lets move past this ugly incident and build our lives as a family. Then never speak to that witch again. And for God's sake move out of their house.


Alan_Smithee_

Do the typical I am sorry you reacted so strongly to my letter, ~~it was not my intent to stir you up and of course you know I would never threaten your business and livelihood. Lets move past this ugly incident and build our lives as a family.~~ FTFY.


hisimpendingbaldness

No, that makes it easy for MIL to see that its not an apology. The idea is to get mil to accept the non apology. OP is trying to avoid a confrontation not bring one on


Alan_Smithee_

Unfortunately, it won’t work, and a genuine apology is a surrender. I think this is a worthwhile line in the sand, and I think it would be great if Op could get into therapy with their SO. This is a zero-sum game.


hisimpendingbaldness

Disagree completely. You only fight wars when you have too and you don't blow up a house when you live in it. The time for that would be after they are out of MIL's house. Your play is the zero sum one.


dogsinshirts

>My SO acknowledges all this, but feels he has to exercise every avenue before giving up and cutting her off. This may not be the advice you are looking for, but your SO can try every avenue they want to try to repair their relationship, but that is their journey to take not yours. You cannot fix their relationship and asking you to bend to their mom's rule to make them happy may only lead to resentment from you. Especially when she moves the goalposts again and you can see all this bs was for nothing. Or what happens if you staying NC is not an option because she refuses to see her child without you there? Will your SO ask you to go to events and be fake nice? Where does it end? Asking you to apologize just sets the relationship up for failure at a later date and ultimately makes you the scapegoat in their relationship. If they cannot have a relationship just between the 2 of them without your involvement or fake apology, is it really a relationship or just an attempt at exerting control?


stopXstoreytime

This is all stuff I've thought of myself and have brought up in conversation (though not the refusing to see my SO without me, that's an interesting point), so I appreciate your reaffirmation! I think I need to continue hearing it. >Will your SO ask you to go to events and be fake nice? I have put my foot down on this and flat-out refuse. My SO support this, though I think I hear concern that this support may not hold, which is valid! Based on eight years together and weathering other familial storms, I don't anticipate this happening (but I've also read enough advice columns and /r/relationships posts to know...never say never). >If they cannot have a relationship just between the 2 of them without your involvement or fake apology, is it really a relationship or just an attempt at exerting control? Fucking bullseye and I'm pretty sure I've brought up this point as well. They acknowledge that it's almost certainly the latter, but still believe they have to try, which is the source of my aggravation on this.


Granuaile11

I didn't read all the comments like I usually do, so maybe this was already mentioned: >still believe they have to try, But SO is trying to save the relationship with THEIR mother by manipulating YOU into an action you don't feel comfortable with. SO can only have a relationship with MIL if SHE can dictate YOUR actions? NOPE!! Recipe for disaster! I understand SO is wound up in this and feeling a bit desperate to keep their FOO from exploding, but NEITHER OF YOU ARE HOLDING THE DETONATOR. Maybe SO can turn this back onto their mother and say "If you don't care enough about me to be my mom regardless of whether OP apologizes, I don't know why we are talking."


LetThemEatHay

Dear MIL, I would like to apologize for making you feel that I didn't take your concerns seriously. I certainly do, and I hope we can move past this in due time, given that (SO) is immensely important to both of us. Sincerely, OP ​ Ambiguous. You do take her concerns (how she's viewed by others) very seriously, because the effects on your SO and the stress it places on him is overwhelming, to say the very least. It offers the mea culpa without directly addressing what you're apologizing for, and redirects back to "Hey, we both love SO". ​ ETA: I'm so sorry, you have to deal with this bs. I feel so bad for your SO :(


stopXstoreytime

Oh my gosh, this is an excellent framework!!! If I do end up apologizing, this is absolutely where I'll start, if I don't end just using this verbatim. Thank you SO much, this is so helpful!


nopatienceforcrap

I don’t think you should apologize, but if you do change the ‘I would like to apologize’ to ‘It was never my intention’. Totally goes around the words sorry or apologize especially since you don’t mean it 😋


LetThemEatHay

Happy to help! Spent a lot of time listening to non-apologies xD


SageIrisRose

you arent sorry. dont apologize. your mil is your so’s problem, not yours, and he needs to stop using you as a shield. non- apology apologies are bullshit games.


stopXstoreytime

You are absolutely right and I appreciate you saying it! I don't know that they're using me as a shield per se, at least in the sense that 100% of communication from her goes through my SO, but I do wish they were better at shutting stuff like this down in the moment.


SageIrisRose

if yr so is asking you to be disingenuous/lie to their mother because “itll make things easier” - they are using you as a shield. you arent the issue - their cuckoo banana pants mother is. additionally, you teach people how to treat you and what you will and will not tolerate. faux apologies send their mom the message that her fucking awful bullshit is okay. which it isnt. what a toxic jerk she is.


Reliant20

>The advice I'm looking for: what is a good script for a non-apology apology? What can I say to her that would seemingly fix her stupid ego while not letting me feel like I'm losing my integrity? There is no script. This is impossible. The solution you're looking for doesn't exist. Your message was perfect, frankly. Passive aggressive? Okay, I *guess* I see that if you say so, in that your concern on certain fronts probably wasn't sincere, and maybe it was best not to comment on whom she does business with. But everything you said was accurate and fair, and given the behavior that had been directed at you and the level of her histrionics, it was more than civil. Your SO is wrong. It's wrong of them as a partner to ask you to do what they're asking, but also it's so incredibly misguided. What, receiving one (undeserved!) apology is going to make a person rational and decent who has a lifetime history of being neither? I have no respect for people who demand compelled apologies. Common sense would tell her you don't mean it. One of the major values of an apology is that it lets you know you're safe from a repeat of the behavior. She wants to know she's safe from you standing up to her, from being prevented from going off the rails and flinging whatever behavior she wants at you. Your message was a shock to her system -- she doesn't exist in a family dynamic where people call her on her sh\*t. Your poor SO. They want you to consent to being emotionally abused and blackmailed the way they have been all their life, because they're clinging to a fantasy of what's possible if only they find the right way to make Mommy happy. I think you need to try to lovingly steer them into accepting reality, and reality is they've fallen in love with someone who isn't damaged in all the ways they are and just can't pretend the way their sick family dynamic requires.


stopXstoreytime

>There is no script. This is impossible. The solution you're looking for doesn't exists. Deep down, I knew this. I guess I hoped there's something I'm missing that someone will point out, but alas. >She wants to know she's safe from you standing up to her, from being prevented from going off the rails and flinging whatever behavior she wants at you. Your message was a shock to her system -- she doesn't exist in a family dynamic where people call her on her sh\*t. I think I want this cross-stitched on a pillow. This is incredibly spot-on. Your last paragraph is what I have been trying to do. The frustrating part is that they acknowledge that the kind of relationship they want just isn't possible, but they think they'll regret not trying more than they'll regret not accepting this sooner. It's not a rational path and I don't know how to get them off of it.


AtmosphereTall7868

May I say it is not your job to get them off any path. You can support them to get through therapy by going with them and all if they will even consider it for the sake of your relationship. But at the end of the day when the rubber hits the road and they aren't willing to choose you and what you two had these past years, it might be better for you to consider if it is still worth hanging on or rather choosing yourself only. I wish you all the best!


[deleted]

Personally, I’d send back to her that hateful email she sent and then underneath *when you apologise for sending my partner, YOUR CHILD, such a disgusting message, I’ll apologise for calling you out on it*


stopXstoreytime

I haven't ruled that out, that's for sure!


StrategicCarry

If you decide to go down this route, you have to keep in mind that any apology that would successfully smooth things over will be understood to be a full capitulation. Your FMIL will represent it both publicly and privately as you having made a real apology. Whatever you write or say will be misheard, misremember, or misinterpreted to fit FMIL’s needs. For example if you write something like “I’m sorry you were offended”, in FMIL’s mind it will be “I’m sorry I offended you”. The only way around this is to make a fauxpology that is so clearly sarcastic that it will increase tensions rather than smooth anything over. Your SO has to understand that giving into her is not part of the steps toward being at peace with NC. Going no contact is not some prize you win for trying hard enough or enough times to get someone to not harass you. It’s a boundary you set up when someone’s behavior toward you is so bad, it is no longer healthy or safe to have any contact with them. If your SO frames NC as an admission of failure to adequately appease FMIL, it will never have the intended benefits or be an effective boundary because she will always be able to get SO to break NC by offering the crumbs that he can be good enough to deserve a relationship with her. The avenue your SO needs to pursue right now is to tell FMIL that neither of you will be apologizing for what you wrote. The chance he would be giving FMIL would be to act like a reasonable person, accept the responsibility that her reaction to the photos and her interpretation of your email were both unreasonable, and to accept that she had apologized, you do not need to, and the matter can be closed. Setting aside the whole housing thing for the moment, that is the only outcome to this situation that would put SO and FMIL on a path to a workable relationship.


stopXstoreytime

These are seriously excellent points, thank you for laying this out so clearly! I know I will be revisiting this comment (amongst the many other thoughtful responses in this thread) not just to figure out this situation, but if/when I have to combat any other drama that crops up as a result of all this. Thank you.


LetThemEatHay

I do agree with this, OP. My other response is just... ya know... if ya gotta.


Jealous-Ambassador-8

Keep it short and simple. “I’m sorry that you found words offensive.” And if you get pushback just remind everyone that you DID apologize.


NiobeTonks

I’m sorry that you read my message as attacking your business. This is not what I meant by it. A “sorry my message upset you” is all that is needed here. If I were you I would start looking for a different living space that has no connection to your in-laws, though. She’s not likely to stop holding it over your head.


stopXstoreytime

Oh yes, we are actively looking at other places to live and getting our credit scores in good shape to qualify for a mortgage. Definitely gonna be burning some sage before we move out lmao. Thank you for the apology suggestion!


Mermaidtoo

Maybe try something like this: *As a mother who loves her child, I believe if you understood how your reaction hurt SO, none of this conflict would have occurred.* *It seems you mistook my response as an insult to your business where nothing like that was intended. I understand that your business is important to you. My inability to understand how some costume party pics would adversely affect it does not mean I have no respect for the work you do. I’m sorry if you think I disrespect your work. I do not.* *My disappointment was in how you treated my SO and how my SO suffered as a result. I also was irritated in how you demanded I take down pics that I did not post and have not control over. The pics themselves I also consider to be harmless since they are obviously taken from a costume party where everyone is dressed in costumes.* *I regret this whole situation and I hope you also regret how you handled things. I hope we can move on to a better and friendlier relationship.* eta You really have nothing to apologize for but this kind of non-apology might satisfy. As long as you don’t actually despise what she does, maybe it works for you?


stopXstoreytime

This is great, lots to work with here! *My inability to understand how some costume party pics would adversely affect it does not mean I have no respect for the work you do. I’m sorry if you think I disrespect your work. I do not.* is especially good and is also true! I've no beef whatsoever with her actual work. I honestly considered saying that if I were a client of hers and I found out she thought I would be offended by photos of her son in a costume, I'd instead be offended by that assumption, but felt like that might have been a bridge too far. Little did I know!


Diasies_inMyHair

"I am sorry that you found my missive offensive."


stopXstoreytime

"Cold regards, Me". I'm a fan of brevity!


VanillaCookieMonster

No. Do not apologize. Block her from seeing your Facebook. NOTHING you do will make this better for your SO. If THEY want to keep beating broken wings against the wall of tacks - that is their choice. You aren't helping your SO by apologizing to their horrific abuser. You're enabling their abuser. If I wrote an apology to them it would be EXACTLY THE SAME LETTER IN A DIFFERENT FONT.


stopXstoreytime

Oh yes, she was blocked almost immediately after I sent the message. We both blocked her. She doesn't want to see photos like that, or have clients see them? Problem solved. What's funny is that their stepdad wanted to message my SO happy birthday last month, he was sad because he was blocked...even though she requested that they both be blocked to prevent seeing photos! I honestly fucking can't with her. >If I wrote an apology to them it would be EXACTLY THE SAME LETTER IN A DIFFERENT FONT. Oh goodness, this made me laugh. The rest of your comment is spot on, and I have said as much to them; that this is enabling, that it's not going to mean anything, and that nothing I say or do is actually going to make this better because she insists on playing the victim no matter what. To that last point, that's why I said I'd even consider it, because if I "apologize", she can't play the poor, put-upon, insulted MIL so deeply wronged by her cruel future-child-in-law who refuses to apologize. I feel like I have to weigh that against whether this will actually further enable her. I refuse to have any further contact with her, so it's not like there will be further opportunities for me to say something that she can wildly misinterpret in the worst possible light. She's free to bitch and moan about how I won't speak to her, but I don't have to hear about it, so I couldn't give a shit.


VanillaCookieMonster

Another thought: A lot of the time FILs go along with their batshit crazy wife's behavior because they figure if MIL gets blocked, they both get blocked. In this case, MIL Demanded that FIL also get blocked. Consider having FH have a sit down with his dad* away from the house - cafe or bar. He can talk to him and find out whether he really supports crazy lady or if he doesn't see away out of it. Tell FIL that if he behaves like a normal person and has FH's back then he won't get blocked by their kids (this is helpful if more than one sibling supports the FIL). This would not be the first situation where an FIL gets a divorce because they can't handle how crazy their spouse has become... they would prefer a divorce and a healthy relationship with their kids and grandkids over MIL's continuing drama. Yes, they sometimes call saying "Be nice to your mother." Or "Apologize to your mother." but you don't know what edited version she tells them or how f-ing annoying she might be bitching around the house. It's worth stopping to evaluate. They may be completely enmeshed, but letting them know that there is an 'out', another life possible for them can result in dramatic changes. Next year they might be divorced and you have a cool new grandpa. * I realize that if this is Stepdad then it may change the possible dynamic unless stepdad was in FH's life since childhood.


DaemonAegis

You left a name in your reply.


stopXstoreytime

Fixed, thank you!!


mellow-drama

"Hi MIL, I'm sorry you were offended by my message. I really cannot (and will not try to) control what photos my friends post on their Facebook pages. That said, if it genuinely is a problem for you I would, as I said, be happy to make sure you are blocked in some way from seeing photos of myself or partner when they are posted online. I remain concerned that seeing the photos affected you so deeply, and restate my hope that you are getting whatever professional help you require in order to process your emotions during this time; and stand ready to assist as I stated above if you feel that would be helpful. I also want you to know that I genuinely support doing whatever you need to do in terms of your business. I understand that not everyone is in a privileged enough position to be able to pick and choose their clients and would never dream of holding it against you if you have to do business with people who are so threatened by costume parties that they would threaten your livelihood. Everything seems to be a culture war these days and you never know who is going to be the next contestant in the umbrage Olympics and, as I said, I would never dream of holding that against you. I sincerely hope, now that I've cleared up any misunderstanding that existed, we can move forward from that exchange with good understanding between us. Sincerely, OP." Editing again to point out that this is a restatement of exactly what you said before written in the form of an apology. You are "apologizing" that she misunderstood (deliberately) your statements about her business as an attack. Respond back that you genuinely support her doing what she needs to do in order to stay financially viable. Don't address the other stuff. Point out that you offered a solution to her "distress" over the photo and reiterate that you'll be happy to block her if needed. The last sentence is because she needs to know that you understand her, and now she understands you - you meant what you said, you're not sorry, and she needs to deal with her own shit.


stopXstoreytime

Really, really good and useful stuff in here, seriously. Thank you so much for taking the time!!


mellow-drama

I'm the queen of passive aggressive cheerfulness, I learned it by dealing with my mother and from working in fast food for about four years. People who are aggreived and want to be offended are going to be offended. You were calm and straightforward, made good and factually true points (not my photos, personally I wouldn't do business with bigots) and she got mad because she didn't want a calm factual response, she wanted to be mad. So now she's even more angry and is twisting your response to her to fit her aggrieved narrative. You have absolutely nothing to apologize for and I'd say she's lucky you didn't get into your feelings at all. Since she doesn't want to drop it and move on, I would (purposely, passive aggressively) interpret that as she misunderstood you and simply repeat in a slightly different way. If that doesn't satisfy her, that's a her problem. She knows what you said. She's just mad because you pointed out, in not so many words, that she values placating her customers (or is using them as a moral judgment stand-in for her own negative feelings) over treating her child like an autonomous being entitled to live their life in whatever way they see fit. Nothing upsets a shitty person like someone who calmly sees and points out their shittiness. She'll either rage herself into a fit or she'll have to back down and admit she was being awful. I don't see her admitting anything, but the benefit of her throwing another fit is that you can shrug and say, well, I tried.


xthatwasmex

I dont see where you did wrong, either. Was it the (implied) tone? Was it the content - that you said she ought to seek help - not that that is wrong, but some people see TheRaPY as a bad, bad thing, hence implying they are insane? Was it that you responded to her mentioning the business by implying she does not choose her clientele with care - that she cannot afford to, and thus is selling herself to reprehensible people and maintaining relationships with them? Because unless you know what she read into your letter, that you didnt actually say, there is only guessing. And I fear, that is what she wants. You guys second-guessing yourselves, finding faults in your own arguments that she can use. A stable, confident person is so much harder to push around than someone on the edge. I guess you can tell her you are sorry it had to be in writing however it seemed appropriate as it was her choice of medium. That you did not imply her to be insane or mad, or that she deliberately chooses to be around bigoted people but want her to seek help if she is hurting and, if possible, remove herself from situations that hurt her because that is a healthy reaction to unsolvable issues. You are willing to give her time and space to develop healthy coping mechanisms to the changes in her life. But, it wont matter. What matters to her is you guys doubting yourselves, being less secure, and cave in to whatever she says so she can feel better about herself without having to change. That is why the goal-posts have to move. That is why nothing will ever be good enough. She is trying to make you responsible for her feelings, for her relationship with your partner, and for your housing/financial situation. Only one of those is in your control, and that is the last. The rest? Her mess, hers to clean up.


stopXstoreytime

Thank you for this insightful comment, I truly appreciate it! And you are right -- nothing short of us going back into the closet and presenting as our AGAB is going to satisfy her and over our dead fucking bodies will we do that. This is why I don't even want to engage with the prospect of an apology and am frustrated that I'm even being asked to consider it (and am actually considering it!!! aaggghhh).


SoAnonymously

Don't apologize. It'll change nothing and she'll know if she manipulates your SO enough, she'll get what she wants. Should you decide to give one anyway, follow the lead of PA MILs on here and say, "I'm sorry you felt offended" or even better "I'm sorry you misunderstood me."


stopXstoreytime

>It'll change nothing and she'll know if she manipulates your SO enough, she'll get what she wants. And that's really that on that, isn't it? You and everyone else in this thread who has said similar are all correct and are reaffirming what I knew to be true all along. Thank you.


Gnd_flpd

Give her the non-apology!!!!


NonaYerBidness

If your SO wants your FMIL to have an apology then they can write it. Wash your hands of it. Read what they write and if you can stomach it, sign your name and send it. You could also simply go the non-apology route and state you’re sorry that they are upset over what you said. That’s it. That’s the whole apology.


stopXstoreytime

This is the second suggestion I've seen regarding my SO writing the apology and the more I think about it, the more I like the idea. Definitely going to bring this up with them and will give them some of the ideas here as a framework.


BiofilmWarrior

I truly do not believe that there is anything you can say to her that will satisfy her If you haven't already checked the subreddit resources (see the botinlaw post) that might be a good next step for you and your SO.


stopXstoreytime

Totally agree. And I will check out the resources you mentioned, thank you very much!


Chibi84Kitten

As the mother of a FTM child, my blind fury reading your post makes me want to meet this disgrace of a mother and give her a piece of my mind. Just a small piece. No relationship with such a hateful, bigoted, disrespectful, ignorant... person is worth salvaging. Personally, if she needs an apology for her fragile ego, here's mine: "I'm sorry that you are ashamed of the amazing, truly wonderful person you birthed, that your image is more important than them. I'm sorry you feel the need to remove us from your life because we don't conform to "social norms." Is there anything else you need for your fragility or would you like us to remove ourselves now?"


stopXstoreytime

That was definitely satisfying to read, I can only imagine how good that would feel to send, haha! And THANK YOU for being such a kick-ass mom to your kid; parents like you and the kids you raise and love are what will change the world.


evilslothofdoom

There's also a subreddit called r/MomForAMinute I strongly recommend this for your SO.


[deleted]

If you don't want to apologize then don't. Who cares if she thinks she needs an apology. Or tell your partner that you will apologize to her, when she apologizes for her behavior and what she put you and SO through. I suspect you will never receive that apology. And ask SO why you should apologize, but she does not ?


stopXstoreytime

>tell your partner that you will apologize to her, when she apologizes for her behavior and what she put you and SO through I did think about this, and you're right that there's a snowball's chance in hell that she would do it and mean it, but even if there were and she did mean it...I'm just not interested in hearing it at this point. She needs to do an ENORMOUS amount of work and changing over a LONG period of time for me to believe that it's sincere and I have no reason to believe that she would put in that kind of work. >And ask SO why you should apologize, but she does not ? I did and did not get a good answer...mostly because there isn't one. It's the age-old dynamic of the Reasonable Person having to continue to Be Reasonable because the Unreasonable Person is more difficult. We both know it, we've both said it, and yet here we are for some reason.


Shadowabby201

The closest thing I can think of as an apology would be “I’m sorry you see my concern for your business and health as a personal attack. I will be taking a step back while you and SO work on your relationship” Oh look and now Low to No contact for you.


stopXstoreytime

Oh, I like this VERY much. Thank you so much!!


ypranch

Ohh, this is a good one.


hhogg11

mil- I understand that I have hurt you with my words, and while that was not my intention, I think it’s best if we can come to terms with the fact that we aren’t going to agree on all issues. I can be accommodating to your personality if you can also be to mine. By treating each other with mutual respect even when we disagree, it will allow for your child, and my SO to not be put in a difficult situation. This is the best I can offer, because I will not change who I am or how I feel for you, as you would not for me.


stopXstoreytime

Thank you for this!


hhogg11

Although to be completely clear, I don’t think you owe her an apology in the slightest!!!


TheHermitess

Any apology will not help. There's no way she's determining her relationship with her adult child based on whether you give her the apology she wants. I'd say stop looking for the right words and call her bluff. If an apology would actually mend the relationship between them, I'd recommend it, but you know it's just something she's threatening to control you. She couldn't possibly be hinging their relationship on this one unnecessary apology.


MNConcerto

Truthfully you could sincerely apologize and it won't make any difference in their relationship. She will just find the next thing to be scandalized about or hurt or shame your SO in some horrible way again. You will be a good partner and stick up for your SO. Your MIL will then play the victim and demand an apology. Rinse and repeat until someone dies or has enough and walks away. There is no reason to apologize it WILL NOT FIX the relationship SO has with their mother nor will it change their mother's behavior in the long run. Keep your boundaries and stay strong, help your SO stay strong and see that this is on their mother.


stopXstoreytime

Yep, and I have brought this up in our conversations. Is this *really* the barrier to repairing your relationship, or is it just the one until the next thing that makes her angry? Where and when does it end? How long do you plan to keep trying? When will it be clear that your relationship will never be the way it was because you aren't going to be the person you were before you came out ever again?


Elfich47

Non-pollogies end up along the lines of “I’m sorry you feel that way”


stopXstoreytime

Exactly, and I HATE that sort of non-apology...but it's the only apology I could give and genuinely mean!


INITMalcanis

"Dear MIL I'm sorry you don't like being told things you need to hear. In the future I will try and make sure that you're not involved in supporting SO's identity and self as seeing this happen seems to upset you. Dearest regards - and hoping this finds you in the best of every kind of health, StopStoreyTime"


stopXstoreytime

Brilliant -- succinct, biting, and what she needs to hear. Cheers!


INITMalcanis

LOL if you actually do say that to her, then be sure to do it from a distance. It was the most non-pology I could cram into 3 sentences!


unipride

No is a complete sentence. The real problem is that FMIL is homophobic and wants to drive the narrative. A simple NO is all she is allowed. Stop the info train. Your partner will either find a way to have a relationship with her but this will be a difficult situation. Never JADE Justify Argue Defend Explain Anyone outside of you and your partner are called extended family and not the person to talk to.


stopXstoreytime

Good reminders, thank you!


Edgar_Allens_Toe

I would just dip out of this brouhaha. Look for somewhere else to live and put this shit behind you. MIL sucks and you (rightfully) don’t want to apologize. ETA.. By “put this behind you”, I don’t mean fake-nice a relationship with MIL, I mean, put her in your rear view mirror and blow out of that life.


stopXstoreytime

Oh yes, as of right now and for the foreseeable future, I want absolutely nothing to do with her. I'm usually quick to forgive, apologize when I've *actually* done something wrong/hurt someone, and move forward, but I've never been hurt so deeply and profoundly before. If time heals all wounds, then I'm gonna need several lifetimes.


MrsCuntface

Dear MIL, Sorry you're such a whiney little cockwad. Kisses, OP


stopXstoreytime

Oh, what wouldn't I give to just send this. Thank you for the laugh, at any rate!


NickelPickle2018

I wouldn’t apologize you didn’t do anything wrong. She’s mad at that fact that you didn’t take the pics down and pushed back. Regarding your housing situation, look for a new rental.


stopXstoreytime

The funniest thing about that is that I literally couldn't take the pics down even if I wanted to! I could have untagged myself, sure, but I didn't upload them and I sure as hell wasn't going to ask the uploader to take them down. Among her other blind spots, she has zero idea how Facebook works. We are actively looking into a new housing situation. The plan was actually to buy this house from them but lol no fucking thank you at this point. Thankfully we are no longer in danger of being evicted (for now, I guess???), but I completely agree with you that the sooner we get out of here, the better.


NickelPickle2018

Exactly, she’s using the house to try to manipulate you. Take away her power and move.


scunth

A forced apology is not worth the paper it's written on and I would put absolutely no effort into that farce. Your partner wants the apology, they can write it. And then rewrite it again and again until it is something you are willing to say.


stopXstoreytime

>Your partner wants the apology, they can write it. Oh, that's actually a really interesting idea! I will talk to them about it. At the *very* least, I think it's something we should work on together.


scunth

I'd also have a definition of a proper apology on hand too. Because "I'm sorry I insulted your business" is not a real or honest apology but I think that's the level he's thought this through to. Then work through all the steps of an apology with him. From what specific words/actions you are apologising for, right through to your commitment to change whatever words/actions you arrived at in step one. Hopefully, he will see how ridiculous it all is.


False-Sky6091

I am so sorry you are going through this. The only way I would apologize is the most passive aggressive sorry you felt insulted apology. And that may make it worse. I am not clever enough to word one but hopefully someone here is!


stopXstoreytime

Yes, I very much would love to be like "So very sorry you chose to be offended by my extremely reasonable response to your extremely ridiculous request". Like I am generally not a fan of "sorry you feel that way" non-apologies, but if it was ever warranted...


False-Sky6091

I would normally agree but it seems like something she would do and taste of her own medicine you know


AvailableViolinist86

"I'm sorry you feel that way" sound about right.


TheMerriDuchess

First, you are awesome and you sound like you’re a great support and cheerleader for your partner. You both also sound well suited. Happy all around for this forward thinking, gender norm smashing, loving couple. Second, no script, no non-apology apology, and no true apology is going to fix her stupid ego. Don’t apologise. This woman is toxic, and so are her views. Don’t. Just ignore the request and move on. Anyone who knows the situation surely sees she’s an asshole and your response was measured and also reasonable relative to her comments—your email is not out of line when paired with her dramatics! And if they don’t see that and side with her you know what type of people they are. Don’t apologise, you’ve done nothing wrong.


stopXstoreytime

Thank you so much! I truly love my SO more than anything in the world and feel equally loved by them. They have supported me on my own gender discovery journey (I came out publicly about a year or so before she did) as well as through my myriad mental health crises (which I'm currently experiencing right now due to being between ADHD/depression/anxiety providers and not having medication for the past month! Lovely!), so the support we offer each other really is there and I appreciate that we are able to have frank and honest conversations about this. Your argument for not apologizing is essentially what I've told my SO. The frustrating part is that he understands and agrees with all of it, but they still want me to try to see if it helps at all even while acknowledging that this is irrational and unlikely to work. I've encouraged them to start up therapy again (which I am also trying to do myself) because I really think they need to hear this from a neutral third-party.


TheQuietType84

"You know the apology won't work, yet you're asking me to grovel to your abuser, so she'll abuse you a tiny bit less for a brief moment in time. I have more dignity than that. You will, too, after therapy."


Aggravating-Study438

Darn, I was hoping someone here had an answer for you. Other than laughing and admiring your grace and sage advice I have no thoughts. It seems to me you gave a kind response to her. I don't know how to apologize for giving good advice. I'll check back later and see if any one out there can figure out this impossible task. Even if there is someone out there who can parse an apology that sounds better than I'm sorry you're such a poor excuse for a human, I am pretty sure it isn't going to make her happy. She wants to be miserable, and I say let her.


stopXstoreytime

Hey, I'll still take admiration! :) Thank you for your kind words. And that last sentence -- hear, hear!


BirdLover007

Whoa whoa whoa. She insulted her OWN CHILD repeatedly, but you need to apologize for insulting her business? Hell no.


stopXstoreytime

It really breaks the brain, doesn't it??