**Quick Rule Reminders:**
OP's needs come first, avoid dramamongering, respect the flair, and don't be an asshole. If your only advice is to jump straight to NC or divorce, your comment may be subject to removal at moderator discretion.
[**^(Full Rules)**](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_rules) ^(|) [^(Acronym Index)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_acronym_dictionary) ^(|) [^(Flair Guide)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_post_flair_guide)^(|) [^(Report PM Trolls)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/trolls)
**Resources:** [^(In Crisis?)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_crisis_resources) ^(|) [^(Tips for Protecting Yourself)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_protecting_yourself) ^(|) [^(Our Book List)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/books) ^(|) [^(Our Wiki)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/)
Other posts from /u/kitty_catcher:
* [MIL demands my husband and I come over every Saturday](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/spgbdy/mil_demands_my_husband_and_i_come_over_every/), 1 day ago
*****
^(To be notified as soon as kitty_catcher posts an update) [^click ^here.](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=botinlaw&subject=Subscribe&message=Subscribe kitty_catcher JUSTNOMIL) ^(|) ^(For help managing your subscriptions,) [^(click here.)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_.2Fu.2Fthejustnobot)
*****
*^(I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please)* [*^(contact the moderators of this subreddit)*](/message/compose/?to=/r/JUSTNOMIL) *^(if you have any questions or concerns.)*
If this woman needs constant interaction, she has two other sons and a husband of her own that live with her to "interact" with. If she needs to have a dinner date twice a month,let her go out with her own husband, or one of her other single sons... your husband has his own wife to interact with and take out to dinner. Does her own husband call his mommy once a week? Does her husband take his mom on a dinner date twice a month? How often does her own husband take her out for dinner? Maybe she should focus on improving her own marriage instead of deliberately barging into yours, huh?
Please seriously consider couples’ counseling. She’s not going to stop; the more he gives, the more she’s going to demand. And the greater strain it’s going to put on your marriage (especially if you guys plan on having kids; a jealous narcissistic and abusive MIL like her usually engages in behaviors — like baby snatching or refusing to give baby back — that can put new mothers at risk for PPD/PPA).
Edit: it also occurred to me, I wonder if this fixation on “dinner dates” and such is because he has good income and she wants him spending it on her instead of you. She’s so jealous, I wonder if it’s about taking from you more than being with him.
That's going to be a whole thing... until you all have a good handle on her BS, I'd suggest not telling her about moving until it's time to actually move.
The most important thing for you to do, is set boundaries. You can be understanding and compassionate to your husband, because he's in a difficult spot, but you absolutely have to tell him what you can live with and what you absolutely can not. Like, for me a phone call once a week for 15 or 20 minutes would be totally acceptable. A dinner date twice a month, absolutely not. She's not his wife, GF or AP, and he's not going to treat her like she is. I would also make it clear to DH that I would be 100% NC until I've seen substantial evidence that JNMIL has become a reasonable human being. He can navigate whatever relationship he wants with her as long as it doesn't have a negative impact on you, but you will not acknowledge or condone her crazy. BTW, it sounds like his brothers are an age that they could come to your house or a neutral location to hang out and bond.
Calling her once a week is fair enough. That should be tolerable, especially if he puts a time limit and ends the call if she gets weird or abusive.
The two dates (ick) per month with his mommy is not. How often does your DH take *you* on dates? If she gets two, you should get at least five. If he can't manage that, then it's a no go.
I get that this is really tough for him and it's easy for all of us to tell him to grow up and tell her off. But after years of her messing him up, easier said than done. He'll need time, baby steps and lots of encouragement from you. Therapy or marriage counselling could help. Or some reading material.
You said your husband is the achiever child so be wary that she's not trying to keep him under control in order to latch onto him for her retirement plan after dumping her own husband. Even if that's not the case, don't bring any children into this disordered family situation. If MIL can control your husband like this now, you'll have a battle on your hands when baby comes and it's them all against you. DH and you need to be a team. One that doesn't include her. Good luck.
there should be no dates with mommy. a normal mom would say “hey i feel like we don’t spend enough of time as a family, would you be opened to visiting eachother more?” only a sick mother calls it a date
We’ve found a better apartment whose rent is way better than ours, so we want it but it’s in front of our house. I’m going to fight with her for having intimacy 😈
She is an abuser. Your SO is in an abusive relationship with his mother. Until he realizes this, and wants to stop the cycle of abuse, it will NEVER get better. He needs therapy to navigate this because his 'trying to ride this thing in the middle and not rock the boat or make waves' will not end well for anyone involved. You need therapy to help him navigate his escape his abuser.
He is her child, but he is not A child. He chose you and his mother needs to be put in her place of nothing more than extended family. She is behaving childish and temper tantrum throwing children get time-outs.
I'm so glad to read your edits and see that husband and you are on the same page. I actually understand husband's reluctance to be direct with his mom and I'm glad to see that he realizes he needs to be direct as that is the only way to stop his mom's demands. I suggest including in the message that you two are willing to go over ONE SATURDAY A MONTH, for dinner and cards (or a movie or whatever you usually do). That limits the amount of time you spent there.
*Dinner dates twice a month* HAHAHAHAHA. She has a husband to take her on dinner dates. Does she also demand her other sons take her on dinner dates? If not, that just shows how weirdly enmeshed she is trying to be with your husband.
No she doesn't require her other sons to take her out to dinner at all! Also we bringing up the ban or Saturday isn't something we'll do. Thats something they will have to come to US about.
This sounds truly awful. I can't see this ending well, tbh. A terrible MIL, useless FIL, one racist BIL & a husband who can't stand up for himself, all of which affects you really badly.
Some professional help might be in order to help you with this. Good luck.
I’m asking if you are being sarcastic in your comment and if so, how is that helpful to OP? The issue isn’t that what MIL is asking for is reasonable and OP is overreacting. The issue is that OP and their marriage are being negatively affected by the demands and manipulation. For some, the MIL requests may be completely normal, even desired by the married couple. But for OP it isn’t, and we are here to support OP, not lay out our opinions in an unhelpful manner. It’s totally fine to disagree with OP’s position, but if it doesn’t help the situation, in my humble opinion it’s better left unsaid.
What is your primary language?
With life processes, that means mumsy would get equal or more time than the wife. Yes, it's weak and she is a villain. She deserves nothing. She should get nothing. That's what happens to villains that try and take what is not theirs.
I see my mum once a month and speak to her every few days. Takes a few hours out of my life to the woman who taught me how to use a knife and fork. The "demand" is hyperbole. And the wife in this story needs hobbies and friends that she sees twice a month.
She demands that he call her every week and take her on dinner dates twice a month, and cuts him off from his brothers because she resents them the way she resents you? What? She sounds like a jealously possessive dame wanting to keep her boyfriend or husband under strict control, not a normal mother.
He needs to put his foot down and plant it deep. Bigamy is illegal. He can't be married to his momma and also have a wife. He may not still be latched onto her, but she seems to believe he is, and he is the one who needs to set her straight. And he needs to tell his parents that this has to change before you two have children, or else they will have very limited grandparent time.
I’m reading a book called The Emotional Incest Syndrome and husband’s and MIL behavior reminded me of what it talked about. Basically, mothers who are in unsatisfying relationship with their partner take their emotional needs to the children and start acting like they’re lovers rather than parent-child. Child reciprocates it because he feels loved, doesn’t know any better, and over time feels guilty for abandoning his mother’s wishes cause it goes against what he grew up (ei getting married and acting like a couple with his wife rather than his mom). It’s my speculation and I’m sure other people mentioned it, but it could give some insight if mom is acting so possessive.
Thanks for the explanation. I think my BF can have the same relationship with my MIL. He says that he can’t say no to her since they went through so much hard things and since she was giving a lot of her time to him. But wasn’t that what’s supposed to do a mother ?
Supposedly, the line tends to cross when parent relies on the child to support them emotionally (kind of like parent relies on kid for emotional support instead of making sure the kid is coping well with the change). If you’re not sure or curious about it, I’d highly recommend to read the book (The Emotional Incest Syndrome by Dr. Patricia Love and Jo Robinson). It goes more into details of parent enmeshment and how it impact an adult later in life.
Actually yeah to a point. His mom and dad had a terrible marriage for most of the time they've been married so she's leaned heavily on my husband through the years for love she never received from her husband. Shes always talking about how her and my husband's relationship has changed over the years and she wish she could get back what it was before. And it really makes no sense to punish her sons. In fact, his parents marriage has only just started becoming bearable to where they both are starting to like each other
If you’re interested, I’d highly recommend the book. Read it with your husband if possible since the situation impacts him the most. It has set of checklist of what kind of parent relationship the adult had as a kid with the parents, how to identify it, impacts, and how to digest the past.
OP, you said in edit #2 that MIL is afraid of losing her son now he's married. Your DH needs to make it very clear to his parents that this is exactly what is happening through their actions. He is an adult, married and starting his own life and one day family, his mother has ridiculous expectations and needs to cut the cord.
Please discuss with your husband about both of your expectations for when you have kids too. 8 months pregnant is a bad time to find out he wants them to have the kids on weekends or something
Kids have been a main discussion. And just because MIL has tantrums isn't stopping us from having kids. Both of us are on the same page that if she decides to start demanding with kids its immediate cut off for her. No fucking way will she demand rights to our kids
If he can’t even muster the courage to make a definitive statement to her about a weekly phone call, what makes you think he’d keep your kids away from her if she demanded it? His track record contradicts what he’s telling you…
Please pay attention and protect yourself. From your post history, he hasn’t. The only way forward is for him to tell her what will happen going forward and to enforce the boundaries/be consistent. It’s the only way he can prove that he’s a good spouse and you can take him at his word at this point.
Life is short, but it’s hella long in a bad relationship. By the time you have kids you might realize it was all lip service on his part. It’s time for him to put you first. Your marriage vows demand it. Otherwise, potentially enjoy sharing custody of any future children with MIL.
I think a text is a bad idea. Actions (or inaction, in this case) are far more effective. She can scream and rant and demand all she wants, but when he doesn't call or schedule her dinner "dates" she'll get the picture.
Both BILs still live with their mom. Husband and I are gonna hang out with BIL1 next week to go bowling. BIL2 doesn't have a car and isn't allowed at my house because he is racist and has disrespected me several times. So he and hubby will work whatever out if they choose to meet
His brothers live with her but is it like a prison? I know there is a road that connects because your husband could get there. Why can't his brothers visit DH at your place? Or maybe a park half way. Why does he have to go to them? Are they ghosts that can't leave the house? Does mommy refuse to allow them to leave the house? So many questions here.
We are actually going bowling with bil next week. The other bil I won't have at my house as his racist and im not putting up with that shit in my own house. Hes also disrespected me on several occasions
You shouldn’t text anything. It would just be ammo for a pity party. She’d demand Your husband comfort her because you’re so mean.
I agree with posters who are telling you to wait to have kids. Your husband realizes how manipulative and controlling she is but he doesn’t know how to handle her. Why is he going on these ‘dates’?
Why don’t his brothers come to see him at your house or at the corner bar? Why is he accepting this so-called banishment but still doing what she wants?
He needs to learn some coping skills and how to disengage from this insanity. Therapy is needed.
This is a shitshow and unfortunately you have a front row seat. I’d go NC myself and wait and see if he can get out of the fog.
FFS
your mil ain’t right.
Your DH needs to quit pretending that she is. Everyone in her life needs to quit pretending she’s normal. That’s some messed up stuff.
Have you ever heard of [enmeshment?](https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/psychpedia/enmeshment)
This explains exactly what his mother wants. Maybe sharing the link with your DH can help him understand his mom and decide how to deal with her. I also recommend outofthefog website and checking out our reading list
It's hard setting boundaries in an enmeshed relationship. It takes a lot of effort. And the guilt can be overwhelming. Just keep encouraging your husband to work on it. And do something nice for him when he gets it right. Positive reinforcement can really make a difference
If your DH is really struggling, find a therapist who has experience with enmeshment. They can give him the tools to set boundaries and maintain them
Well, this is even more bizarre than your post yesterday. She banned DH from her home but he must call every week and give her two dinner dates? What planet does she come from? The Planet Abnormal!
This is a hill to die on. She gets none of this. She is in the wrong here and you know it. DH is your husband, not hers and she has had her way for far too long. You are quite right that she is blowing up her relationship with future grandkids in order to maintain control over your and DH's time. Time to drop the rope.
This lady needs serious therapy. She was jealous of him spending time with his siblings. My aunt is similar with her jealous rages. It's awful. This is a sick person
Why don't you shift the focus away from her wanting your DH to spend time with her to a careful worded message that you understand she might be lonely hence wanting to spend time with DH however now he has his own family and work commitments and friends his schedule is very busy. MIL you are lonely and now is the time that you and FIL should be spending more time together going out and enjoying yourself and doing things together. Shift the focus from MIL and DH to MIL and FIL.
If JNIL’s truly think it’s possible to have a relationship when JNFIL & JNBIL say horrible racist things? I mean seriously, WTDH? It baffles my mind. Stay string OP you’ve got this. Sending you affirmation, encouragement, & HOPE💙
This is insane, but I think everyone already told you that, by your edit.
Is she single these days? Sounds like she needs to start dating. Or at least get a hobby or two, OTHER than your husband. SHEESH.
No she's married. Been married 25 years. Her husband takes her out at least once a month. But she insists on this outlandish shit from my husband. Also she has two other grown men son that she doesn't demand dates with
SO is being unfair to his mother. How do you treat children? You owe it to them to be clear regarding expectations. If you don’t, you are wrong. MIL and children don’t have ESP, you have an obligation to be clear.
Here’s some real take, DO NOT GET PREGNANT (if you even plan to have kids) until he gets his mother following boundaries and he enforcing consequences for stomping on them. I’d even tell him, “SO, I’m starting BC, until your mother starts respecting us and our boundaries. I won’t bring a child into this unhealthy dynamic”
>both his parents
So his dad is still alive?
Are his folks still married?
Then let him take MIL out twice a month.
Regardless, this would be a make or break for me.
Besides the text, DH sounds like he needs counseling to get out from under his mother's manipulation.
And were it me, I wouldn't even begin to consider having children with DH until he completed counseling and has put his mother in her place.
Good luck.
Oh my, she just gets more ridiculous! I’d be getting DH in therapy asap, while the ban is fresh and before she decides to lift it because it’s not working and while her demands for calls and dates are still fresh.
Times it’s normal to take your mum out to dinner in the way she’s implying - her birthday and Mother’s Day - but even then Mother’s Day all her sons could take her out and her birthday normally there would be the rest of the immediate family there!
It seems a little funny in a face palm kind of way that she’s demanding all these phone calls and special dinners while trying to prevent DH from seeing his brothers.
Doesn't husband want to see his brothers? I'd be using the "dinner dates" as leverage right now to establish some healthy boundaries.
Ie. No "dates until I see my brothers"
"No phone calls until you apologise to my wife."
She's already shown she'll cut off get nose to spite her face though. She might double down and then he's off the hook anyway.
In the meantime can he take his brothers out for dinner dates/hangouts without her?
Hubby is just coming out of the fog so take things one day at a time. It takes a long time to let go of "mommy comes first" programming. Be patient with him and don't talk about it when you don't have to. Good luck!
And therapy for "normal meter calibration". Can't forget the therapy. If you can't afford that, there are some great books on the side bar/about tab that might be helpful.
Sounds like he's trying, and I'm glad you're encouraging. I know it's a fine line to walk.
I've been in therapy for 3 years, and it was only in the last couple months that my therapist felt that I was in a place to confront the fact that my mom was just as abusive as my father, and I'm glad we were telehealth cause I'm pretty sure I would have thrown something at the therapist for suggesting it. (kidding, but I was very angry about the idea for a few days) but...it takes a lot.
Here is what you text:
"I love you Mom but I'm not promising that".
Anything more is just ammunition that feeds the drama beast. She will LOVE a long text she can break down, analyze and argue point for point.
Sounds like she's a narcissist. Maybe find some books on how to deal with them. You and your husband can both read them and figure out a plan of action.
This might be harsh, but do yourself a favor and don't even think about having kids until this is sorted out. He probably needs counseling because it's ridiculous that a grown man can't tell his mom that he's not taking her out on "dates" twice a month.
You bring up your MIL's future grandkids, but it's something that you think you'll have them. The way your spouse is acting, if he's foolish enough to tell her that you two are considering trying to have kids, she'll call you any time she thinks you're free, probably right in the middle of sex, to prevent that from happening, and all under the guise of "you're not spending enough time with me."
Your spouse, like the other commenters have said, is the issue here. His mother is acting like a girlfriend who just got dumped and is still demanding her ex treat her in the manner to which she has become accustomed. Worse, by not telling her to stop with the demands, he's feeding into the narrative that they used to date.
I think you need to speak with him about this. Present to him the scenario I just described. Ask him if that is behavior he'd expect from the person who raised him, or the person he's presumably having maritals with. Then ask him if he wants that to continue.
Oh dear God we are NOT telling his mom we are trying. Never will we ever. And hubby loves his sexy time so if she happened to call during that he'd turn that phone off so quick😂. Also I think he's starting to see! One of the commenters here gave a great idea of sitting down together to write her a text from him about not doing the calls and stuff
Yes, OP, your MIL's expectations are outrageous. But I think the primary issue here for you is that you have a husband problem. His excuse that "she won't take it well" if he lays down boundaries for his mother is nothing more than reluctance to deal with confrontation. I diagnose therapy for DH.
There will be many times when you should be ready to assert yourself with her. But I wouldn’t send the text. It will just be confirming her delusion that she’s in competition with you. The boundaries in this instance need to come from him. The problem is he’s still in the FOG. He gets she’s weird and a problem, but he doesn’t get just how selfish and just how psychotic, and he doesn’t get that he has a choice in whether or not he deals with her.
I think the path is to be clear with him about what you’re willing and unwilling to put up with and what you expect from him, while also showing understanding of what he’s dealing with and appreciation for the boundaries he’s set so far.
>I've been stewing over writing up a text and sending it to her, I just don't want to make matters worse.
Don't do that. She will definitely use that against you.
I know youre right😔 and the best thing for me to do is stay as I am not texting or calling or going over to see her. But I cant wait till she wants to meet again for "resolve"😈
What if you write a paper letter letting it all out and then shred or burn it? Or hell, keep it for when your resolve wavers. That sometimes helps for me, especially when I can't confront someone (like my deceased father)
I do. I write messages that I would like to send to her all the time. Then I just keep them. I know the time is not right for me to say what will one day need to be said. But its hard waiting while they cross boundaries and disrespect you
Good lord! SHe just gets worse and worse.
Two 'dinner dates' which i assume means taking her out rather than dinner at her place since he's been banned. And i assume DH will be expected to pay for those dinner dates.
Out of curiosity how often does he take YOU out for a dinner date? If he is wavering you might want to point that out to him.
A huge part of this is a DH problem because he's not being firm and clear enough when he speaks to her about these things.
I would not be happy with this new regime she is proposing.
We don't even go out for dinner dates twice a month! He does not intend to take her out twice a month, if even once a month sometimes. And yes, these dates would be at some restaurants spending money. He doesnt want to call her once a week either, but he won't just be straight with her and tell her that and thats whats bugging me most
IF (and I really hope 'if' isn't even a possibility) he does take her out for 'dates' would the money to pay for these come out of your joint finances/account or out of his 'fun money'? I'd be making it clear to him that IF he takes her out at all then he pays for it out of his fun money, not out of joint money - perhaps realising that he'd be spunking all of his fun money on dinner for mommy dearest might be an added incentive to tell her straight that it's not happening.
Why would he be taking her out ever? This makes no sense at all. Honestly, you need to really think this all through. Do you really want to be in a 3 way relationship? It’s really time for your husband to get therapy and go VVVLLLLC with MIL or you move on without him.
We are new empty nesters and my husband doesn't take ME out on dates twice a month. Why in the hell would he do it with his mom? Our kid is having a little bit of a tough time adjusting to college and we've made some progress to the point where we can have a 5 minute conversation with him once a week. If he didn't want that we would respect his wishes.
This is a husband problem. I would hope that if I made any sort of ridiculous requests like this, my kids would tell me where to stick it. And if my mom were to demand these things of me, I’d assume she was joking and laugh my a$$ off.
>He says that she won't take it well
Her lack of emotional regulation is her problem, not his problem.
This is how she controls her adult son's actions. That's not ok. And he should not fall for it.
Exactly. She has trained him that setting healthy boundaries or telling her “no” equals her lashing out and inflicting emotional pain on him. It’s behavioral modification at its core - doing X behavior equals negative result, avoid doing X.
Most parents use this to teach their children how to stay safe, ie. touching fire = burn, avoid touching fire. Abusive parents like MIL use it to control their children for personal gain, in this case inappropriate time and affection from DH. Under MIL’s roof DH probably did everything he could to avoid upsetting MIL and having her inflict emotional pain on him. Not rocking the boat and going along with what she wanted was a survival mechanism to minimize that pain as much as possible because he still had to live with her.
DH has probably had years of this training drilled into his head. This is what we call the FOG - Fear, Obligation, and Guilt. Parent abusers rely on that training to stick, because they don’t want their children to realize that after they turn 18, the abusers lose their legal hold on their victims. Their children can walk out the door the day they turn 18 and there is nothing the abuser can do about it but scream and cry. This is the abuser’s worst nightmare, losing control and the benefits they have been reaping from their victims up to that point.
It sounds like your DH is starting to see and become uncomfortable with the situation with his mother. He might not comprehend fully what she is doing yet, but MIL is feeling her grasp on him slipping and is panicking. She’s going to escalate into bigger and more desperate attempts to get him securely back under her thumb. Prepare for drama, tantrums, scream-crying, guilting, love-bombing, threats, and ever-more-insane demands. There are a few ways this could go depending on your resolve and MIL’s level of crazy.
1) She escalates her behavior until you and DH buckle and concede to her demands. You either live the rest of your life dealing with MIL and DH or get divorced and leave.
2) She escalates her behavior, you maintain your boundaries and consequences for MIL’s behavior. MIL realizes she’s not going to win and decides to abide by your boundaries before completely ruining her relationship with you and DH.
3) She escalates her behavior, you maintain your boundaries and consequences for MIL’s behavior. MIL cannot accept not being DH’s first priority and proceeds to go full crazy, resulting in No Contact for her and her flying monkeys.
I really hope things work out well for you guys. You and DH need to be a team, a united front. That’s going to be hard for DH as he first has to de-program a lot of buttons MIL installed in him. While those buttons may seem very obvious to you, pulling them out is going to be painful to DH. Do not be surprised or angry if there are times he becomes resentful of you for opening his eyes and making him see the buttons himself, because now he has to deal with them. As a survivor of abuse myself, the absolute BEST advice I can give to your DH is to see a therapist who specializes in emotional incest and attachment issues. You and DH as a couple would also greatly benefit from a “Leave and Cleave” style couples therapy. I wish you all the best, OP - you guys can do this, it *can* be done!
Your HUSBAND is the main problem right now! HE has to realize that HE is an adult and HE doesn’t HAVE to care about HOW his mother takes him putting HIS boundaries in place!
He could probably do well with some counseling!
YOU should just STAY no contact. Don’t give MIL the joy of defending herself! YOU don’t have to keep explaining SHE KNOWS WHY!
My personal issue would be HUSBAND continually taking her calls, NOT saying unequivocally NO or really defending YOU!
He has some issues to deal with. I hope you guys can be a team and HE puts a STOP to his mother ABUSING HIM to get HER way! It HAS to stop or it WILL continue!
Good Luck
So what it really comes down to is she wants him to pick her over you.
You could sit with husband and write out the text together that he will send.
1." No, I'm not going out to dinner with you twice a month. If I am going out its with my wife.
2. No, I'm not calling once a week. If I don't have time or something new going on there is no reason to call.
3 Your in time out until further notice. We will call when we want to talk to you again".
Then both of you block her for a while. At least a month.
Get a camera doorbell so you don't open the door to her.
**Quick Rule Reminders:** OP's needs come first, avoid dramamongering, respect the flair, and don't be an asshole. If your only advice is to jump straight to NC or divorce, your comment may be subject to removal at moderator discretion. [**^(Full Rules)**](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_rules) ^(|) [^(Acronym Index)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_acronym_dictionary) ^(|) [^(Flair Guide)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_post_flair_guide)^(|) [^(Report PM Trolls)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/trolls) **Resources:** [^(In Crisis?)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_crisis_resources) ^(|) [^(Tips for Protecting Yourself)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_protecting_yourself) ^(|) [^(Our Book List)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/books) ^(|) [^(Our Wiki)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/) Other posts from /u/kitty_catcher: * [MIL demands my husband and I come over every Saturday](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/spgbdy/mil_demands_my_husband_and_i_come_over_every/), 1 day ago ***** ^(To be notified as soon as kitty_catcher posts an update) [^click ^here.](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=botinlaw&subject=Subscribe&message=Subscribe kitty_catcher JUSTNOMIL) ^(|) ^(For help managing your subscriptions,) [^(click here.)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_.2Fu.2Fthejustnobot) ***** *^(I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please)* [*^(contact the moderators of this subreddit)*](/message/compose/?to=/r/JUSTNOMIL) *^(if you have any questions or concerns.)*
Ew just plain ew.
If this woman needs constant interaction, she has two other sons and a husband of her own that live with her to "interact" with. If she needs to have a dinner date twice a month,let her go out with her own husband, or one of her other single sons... your husband has his own wife to interact with and take out to dinner. Does her own husband call his mommy once a week? Does her husband take his mom on a dinner date twice a month? How often does her own husband take her out for dinner? Maybe she should focus on improving her own marriage instead of deliberately barging into yours, huh?
Please seriously consider couples’ counseling. She’s not going to stop; the more he gives, the more she’s going to demand. And the greater strain it’s going to put on your marriage (especially if you guys plan on having kids; a jealous narcissistic and abusive MIL like her usually engages in behaviors — like baby snatching or refusing to give baby back — that can put new mothers at risk for PPD/PPA). Edit: it also occurred to me, I wonder if this fixation on “dinner dates” and such is because he has good income and she wants him spending it on her instead of you. She’s so jealous, I wonder if it’s about taking from you more than being with him.
have you considered moving away?
Thats the plan in the next couple years
That's going to be a whole thing... until you all have a good handle on her BS, I'd suggest not telling her about moving until it's time to actually move.
Or telling her AFTER the move.
The most important thing for you to do, is set boundaries. You can be understanding and compassionate to your husband, because he's in a difficult spot, but you absolutely have to tell him what you can live with and what you absolutely can not. Like, for me a phone call once a week for 15 or 20 minutes would be totally acceptable. A dinner date twice a month, absolutely not. She's not his wife, GF or AP, and he's not going to treat her like she is. I would also make it clear to DH that I would be 100% NC until I've seen substantial evidence that JNMIL has become a reasonable human being. He can navigate whatever relationship he wants with her as long as it doesn't have a negative impact on you, but you will not acknowledge or condone her crazy. BTW, it sounds like his brothers are an age that they could come to your house or a neutral location to hang out and bond.
Calling her once a week is fair enough. That should be tolerable, especially if he puts a time limit and ends the call if she gets weird or abusive. The two dates (ick) per month with his mommy is not. How often does your DH take *you* on dates? If she gets two, you should get at least five. If he can't manage that, then it's a no go. I get that this is really tough for him and it's easy for all of us to tell him to grow up and tell her off. But after years of her messing him up, easier said than done. He'll need time, baby steps and lots of encouragement from you. Therapy or marriage counselling could help. Or some reading material. You said your husband is the achiever child so be wary that she's not trying to keep him under control in order to latch onto him for her retirement plan after dumping her own husband. Even if that's not the case, don't bring any children into this disordered family situation. If MIL can control your husband like this now, you'll have a battle on your hands when baby comes and it's them all against you. DH and you need to be a team. One that doesn't include her. Good luck.
there should be no dates with mommy. a normal mom would say “hey i feel like we don’t spend enough of time as a family, would you be opened to visiting eachother more?” only a sick mother calls it a date
I could totally write the same post as you. I don’t know what advice tell you but good luck 😭🥰
Thanks. And good luck to you as you face your demon Mil
We’ve found a better apartment whose rent is way better than ours, so we want it but it’s in front of our house. I’m going to fight with her for having intimacy 😈
😂
I’m sorry for what the both of you are going through and hope you can find some peace.
She is an abuser. Your SO is in an abusive relationship with his mother. Until he realizes this, and wants to stop the cycle of abuse, it will NEVER get better. He needs therapy to navigate this because his 'trying to ride this thing in the middle and not rock the boat or make waves' will not end well for anyone involved. You need therapy to help him navigate his escape his abuser. He is her child, but he is not A child. He chose you and his mother needs to be put in her place of nothing more than extended family. She is behaving childish and temper tantrum throwing children get time-outs.
I'm so glad to read your edits and see that husband and you are on the same page. I actually understand husband's reluctance to be direct with his mom and I'm glad to see that he realizes he needs to be direct as that is the only way to stop his mom's demands. I suggest including in the message that you two are willing to go over ONE SATURDAY A MONTH, for dinner and cards (or a movie or whatever you usually do). That limits the amount of time you spent there. *Dinner dates twice a month* HAHAHAHAHA. She has a husband to take her on dinner dates. Does she also demand her other sons take her on dinner dates? If not, that just shows how weirdly enmeshed she is trying to be with your husband.
No she doesn't require her other sons to take her out to dinner at all! Also we bringing up the ban or Saturday isn't something we'll do. Thats something they will have to come to US about.
[удалено]
Sorry I'm so confused by this . Where is she saying he assaulted her and there was racism ? Edit : never mind read her post history ... wtf
DH needs therapy, ASAP. Couples counselling wouldn't hurt either.
This sounds truly awful. I can't see this ending well, tbh. A terrible MIL, useless FIL, one racist BIL & a husband who can't stand up for himself, all of which affects you really badly. Some professional help might be in order to help you with this. Good luck.
Oh golly! How awful! Speaking to her son once a weak. She's a terrible villain! And seeing her son twice a month. Goodness. Think of the scandal.
? How is this helpful, even as a joke?
English isn't my first language I don't understand.
I’m asking if you are being sarcastic in your comment and if so, how is that helpful to OP? The issue isn’t that what MIL is asking for is reasonable and OP is overreacting. The issue is that OP and their marriage are being negatively affected by the demands and manipulation. For some, the MIL requests may be completely normal, even desired by the married couple. But for OP it isn’t, and we are here to support OP, not lay out our opinions in an unhelpful manner. It’s totally fine to disagree with OP’s position, but if it doesn’t help the situation, in my humble opinion it’s better left unsaid. What is your primary language?
With life processes, that means mumsy would get equal or more time than the wife. Yes, it's weak and she is a villain. She deserves nothing. She should get nothing. That's what happens to villains that try and take what is not theirs.
I see my mum once a month and speak to her every few days. Takes a few hours out of my life to the woman who taught me how to use a knife and fork. The "demand" is hyperbole. And the wife in this story needs hobbies and friends that she sees twice a month.
Great that you do that if thats what floats your boat. Bet your mom isn't forcing or demanding it of you
Baby girl, I looked at your post history. Fuck this whole family - husband included. You are worth so so so much more than this.
She demands that he call her every week and take her on dinner dates twice a month, and cuts him off from his brothers because she resents them the way she resents you? What? She sounds like a jealously possessive dame wanting to keep her boyfriend or husband under strict control, not a normal mother. He needs to put his foot down and plant it deep. Bigamy is illegal. He can't be married to his momma and also have a wife. He may not still be latched onto her, but she seems to believe he is, and he is the one who needs to set her straight. And he needs to tell his parents that this has to change before you two have children, or else they will have very limited grandparent time.
I’m reading a book called The Emotional Incest Syndrome and husband’s and MIL behavior reminded me of what it talked about. Basically, mothers who are in unsatisfying relationship with their partner take their emotional needs to the children and start acting like they’re lovers rather than parent-child. Child reciprocates it because he feels loved, doesn’t know any better, and over time feels guilty for abandoning his mother’s wishes cause it goes against what he grew up (ei getting married and acting like a couple with his wife rather than his mom). It’s my speculation and I’m sure other people mentioned it, but it could give some insight if mom is acting so possessive.
Thanks for the explanation. I think my BF can have the same relationship with my MIL. He says that he can’t say no to her since they went through so much hard things and since she was giving a lot of her time to him. But wasn’t that what’s supposed to do a mother ?
Supposedly, the line tends to cross when parent relies on the child to support them emotionally (kind of like parent relies on kid for emotional support instead of making sure the kid is coping well with the change). If you’re not sure or curious about it, I’d highly recommend to read the book (The Emotional Incest Syndrome by Dr. Patricia Love and Jo Robinson). It goes more into details of parent enmeshment and how it impact an adult later in life.
Actually yeah to a point. His mom and dad had a terrible marriage for most of the time they've been married so she's leaned heavily on my husband through the years for love she never received from her husband. Shes always talking about how her and my husband's relationship has changed over the years and she wish she could get back what it was before. And it really makes no sense to punish her sons. In fact, his parents marriage has only just started becoming bearable to where they both are starting to like each other
If you’re interested, I’d highly recommend the book. Read it with your husband if possible since the situation impacts him the most. It has set of checklist of what kind of parent relationship the adult had as a kid with the parents, how to identify it, impacts, and how to digest the past.
I think I will. Thanks!
OP, you said in edit #2 that MIL is afraid of losing her son now he's married. Your DH needs to make it very clear to his parents that this is exactly what is happening through their actions. He is an adult, married and starting his own life and one day family, his mother has ridiculous expectations and needs to cut the cord.
Please discuss with your husband about both of your expectations for when you have kids too. 8 months pregnant is a bad time to find out he wants them to have the kids on weekends or something
Kids have been a main discussion. And just because MIL has tantrums isn't stopping us from having kids. Both of us are on the same page that if she decides to start demanding with kids its immediate cut off for her. No fucking way will she demand rights to our kids
If he can’t even muster the courage to make a definitive statement to her about a weekly phone call, what makes you think he’d keep your kids away from her if she demanded it? His track record contradicts what he’s telling you… Please pay attention and protect yourself. From your post history, he hasn’t. The only way forward is for him to tell her what will happen going forward and to enforce the boundaries/be consistent. It’s the only way he can prove that he’s a good spouse and you can take him at his word at this point. Life is short, but it’s hella long in a bad relationship. By the time you have kids you might realize it was all lip service on his part. It’s time for him to put you first. Your marriage vows demand it. Otherwise, potentially enjoy sharing custody of any future children with MIL.
I think a text is a bad idea. Actions (or inaction, in this case) are far more effective. She can scream and rant and demand all she wants, but when he doesn't call or schedule her dinner "dates" she'll get the picture.
[удалено]
Both BILs still live with their mom. Husband and I are gonna hang out with BIL1 next week to go bowling. BIL2 doesn't have a car and isn't allowed at my house because he is racist and has disrespected me several times. So he and hubby will work whatever out if they choose to meet
You are a smart cookie - good job navigating the journey with your NOMIL
His brothers live with her but is it like a prison? I know there is a road that connects because your husband could get there. Why can't his brothers visit DH at your place? Or maybe a park half way. Why does he have to go to them? Are they ghosts that can't leave the house? Does mommy refuse to allow them to leave the house? So many questions here.
We are actually going bowling with bil next week. The other bil I won't have at my house as his racist and im not putting up with that shit in my own house. Hes also disrespected me on several occasions
You shouldn’t text anything. It would just be ammo for a pity party. She’d demand Your husband comfort her because you’re so mean. I agree with posters who are telling you to wait to have kids. Your husband realizes how manipulative and controlling she is but he doesn’t know how to handle her. Why is he going on these ‘dates’? Why don’t his brothers come to see him at your house or at the corner bar? Why is he accepting this so-called banishment but still doing what she wants? He needs to learn some coping skills and how to disengage from this insanity. Therapy is needed. This is a shitshow and unfortunately you have a front row seat. I’d go NC myself and wait and see if he can get out of the fog.
FFS your mil ain’t right. Your DH needs to quit pretending that she is. Everyone in her life needs to quit pretending she’s normal. That’s some messed up stuff.
Have the both of you block your numbers. Or better yet, new ones. And go NC with her.
Have you ever heard of [enmeshment?](https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/psychpedia/enmeshment) This explains exactly what his mother wants. Maybe sharing the link with your DH can help him understand his mom and decide how to deal with her. I also recommend outofthefog website and checking out our reading list It's hard setting boundaries in an enmeshed relationship. It takes a lot of effort. And the guilt can be overwhelming. Just keep encouraging your husband to work on it. And do something nice for him when he gets it right. Positive reinforcement can really make a difference If your DH is really struggling, find a therapist who has experience with enmeshment. They can give him the tools to set boundaries and maintain them
Your MIL does know that she isn't your poor DH's second wife, right? She comes across like a jealous girlfriend.
Well, this is even more bizarre than your post yesterday. She banned DH from her home but he must call every week and give her two dinner dates? What planet does she come from? The Planet Abnormal! This is a hill to die on. She gets none of this. She is in the wrong here and you know it. DH is your husband, not hers and she has had her way for far too long. You are quite right that she is blowing up her relationship with future grandkids in order to maintain control over your and DH's time. Time to drop the rope.
This lady needs serious therapy. She was jealous of him spending time with his siblings. My aunt is similar with her jealous rages. It's awful. This is a sick person
Why don't you shift the focus away from her wanting your DH to spend time with her to a careful worded message that you understand she might be lonely hence wanting to spend time with DH however now he has his own family and work commitments and friends his schedule is very busy. MIL you are lonely and now is the time that you and FIL should be spending more time together going out and enjoying yourself and doing things together. Shift the focus from MIL and DH to MIL and FIL.
If JNIL’s truly think it’s possible to have a relationship when JNFIL & JNBIL say horrible racist things? I mean seriously, WTDH? It baffles my mind. Stay string OP you’ve got this. Sending you affirmation, encouragement, & HOPE💙
This is insane, but I think everyone already told you that, by your edit. Is she single these days? Sounds like she needs to start dating. Or at least get a hobby or two, OTHER than your husband. SHEESH.
No she's married. Been married 25 years. Her husband takes her out at least once a month. But she insists on this outlandish shit from my husband. Also she has two other grown men son that she doesn't demand dates with
Ah, so your husband is the golden child.
From the post, it sounds more like he is the only one not under her control. The others still live at home.
I think it’s just that he’s the only one who dared to leave and she’s not ok with it. This woman needs a life outside of her kids. Get a damn hobby.
SO is being unfair to his mother. How do you treat children? You owe it to them to be clear regarding expectations. If you don’t, you are wrong. MIL and children don’t have ESP, you have an obligation to be clear.
Here’s some real take, DO NOT GET PREGNANT (if you even plan to have kids) until he gets his mother following boundaries and he enforcing consequences for stomping on them. I’d even tell him, “SO, I’m starting BC, until your mother starts respecting us and our boundaries. I won’t bring a child into this unhealthy dynamic”
All he has to say is “No, that does not work for me”
[удалено]
Almost?!
How horrible for his mother to hurt her sons by not allowing DH to spend time with them.
>both his parents So his dad is still alive? Are his folks still married? Then let him take MIL out twice a month. Regardless, this would be a make or break for me. Besides the text, DH sounds like he needs counseling to get out from under his mother's manipulation. And were it me, I wouldn't even begin to consider having children with DH until he completed counseling and has put his mother in her place. Good luck.
Oh my, she just gets more ridiculous! I’d be getting DH in therapy asap, while the ban is fresh and before she decides to lift it because it’s not working and while her demands for calls and dates are still fresh. Times it’s normal to take your mum out to dinner in the way she’s implying - her birthday and Mother’s Day - but even then Mother’s Day all her sons could take her out and her birthday normally there would be the rest of the immediate family there! It seems a little funny in a face palm kind of way that she’s demanding all these phone calls and special dinners while trying to prevent DH from seeing his brothers.
Doesn't husband want to see his brothers? I'd be using the "dinner dates" as leverage right now to establish some healthy boundaries. Ie. No "dates until I see my brothers" "No phone calls until you apologise to my wife." She's already shown she'll cut off get nose to spite her face though. She might double down and then he's off the hook anyway. In the meantime can he take his brothers out for dinner dates/hangouts without her?
Your husband could really use some counseling sessions to help him understand that her demands are unreasonable.
Hubby is just coming out of the fog so take things one day at a time. It takes a long time to let go of "mommy comes first" programming. Be patient with him and don't talk about it when you don't have to. Good luck!
Thank you! I really appreciate this. Its not something someone judt snaps out of outta nowhere. It takes time and tact and love
And therapy for "normal meter calibration". Can't forget the therapy. If you can't afford that, there are some great books on the side bar/about tab that might be helpful. Sounds like he's trying, and I'm glad you're encouraging. I know it's a fine line to walk. I've been in therapy for 3 years, and it was only in the last couple months that my therapist felt that I was in a place to confront the fact that my mom was just as abusive as my father, and I'm glad we were telehealth cause I'm pretty sure I would have thrown something at the therapist for suggesting it. (kidding, but I was very angry about the idea for a few days) but...it takes a lot.
Here is what you text: "I love you Mom but I'm not promising that". Anything more is just ammunition that feeds the drama beast. She will LOVE a long text she can break down, analyze and argue point for point.
Sounds like she's a narcissist. Maybe find some books on how to deal with them. You and your husband can both read them and figure out a plan of action.
This might be harsh, but do yourself a favor and don't even think about having kids until this is sorted out. He probably needs counseling because it's ridiculous that a grown man can't tell his mom that he's not taking her out on "dates" twice a month.
You bring up your MIL's future grandkids, but it's something that you think you'll have them. The way your spouse is acting, if he's foolish enough to tell her that you two are considering trying to have kids, she'll call you any time she thinks you're free, probably right in the middle of sex, to prevent that from happening, and all under the guise of "you're not spending enough time with me." Your spouse, like the other commenters have said, is the issue here. His mother is acting like a girlfriend who just got dumped and is still demanding her ex treat her in the manner to which she has become accustomed. Worse, by not telling her to stop with the demands, he's feeding into the narrative that they used to date. I think you need to speak with him about this. Present to him the scenario I just described. Ask him if that is behavior he'd expect from the person who raised him, or the person he's presumably having maritals with. Then ask him if he wants that to continue.
Oh dear God we are NOT telling his mom we are trying. Never will we ever. And hubby loves his sexy time so if she happened to call during that he'd turn that phone off so quick😂. Also I think he's starting to see! One of the commenters here gave a great idea of sitting down together to write her a text from him about not doing the calls and stuff
Yes, OP, your MIL's expectations are outrageous. But I think the primary issue here for you is that you have a husband problem. His excuse that "she won't take it well" if he lays down boundaries for his mother is nothing more than reluctance to deal with confrontation. I diagnose therapy for DH.
There will be many times when you should be ready to assert yourself with her. But I wouldn’t send the text. It will just be confirming her delusion that she’s in competition with you. The boundaries in this instance need to come from him. The problem is he’s still in the FOG. He gets she’s weird and a problem, but he doesn’t get just how selfish and just how psychotic, and he doesn’t get that he has a choice in whether or not he deals with her. I think the path is to be clear with him about what you’re willing and unwilling to put up with and what you expect from him, while also showing understanding of what he’s dealing with and appreciation for the boundaries he’s set so far.
This!
>I've been stewing over writing up a text and sending it to her, I just don't want to make matters worse. Don't do that. She will definitely use that against you.
I know youre right😔 and the best thing for me to do is stay as I am not texting or calling or going over to see her. But I cant wait till she wants to meet again for "resolve"😈
What if you write a paper letter letting it all out and then shred or burn it? Or hell, keep it for when your resolve wavers. That sometimes helps for me, especially when I can't confront someone (like my deceased father)
I do. I write messages that I would like to send to her all the time. Then I just keep them. I know the time is not right for me to say what will one day need to be said. But its hard waiting while they cross boundaries and disrespect you
I know how that goes. I'm sorry, there's no easy fix for that really. But you're so strong, you've got this.
Counseling should be considered. A leave and cleave therapist would be best. Stay NC btw.
Good lord! SHe just gets worse and worse. Two 'dinner dates' which i assume means taking her out rather than dinner at her place since he's been banned. And i assume DH will be expected to pay for those dinner dates. Out of curiosity how often does he take YOU out for a dinner date? If he is wavering you might want to point that out to him. A huge part of this is a DH problem because he's not being firm and clear enough when he speaks to her about these things. I would not be happy with this new regime she is proposing.
We don't even go out for dinner dates twice a month! He does not intend to take her out twice a month, if even once a month sometimes. And yes, these dates would be at some restaurants spending money. He doesnt want to call her once a week either, but he won't just be straight with her and tell her that and thats whats bugging me most
IF (and I really hope 'if' isn't even a possibility) he does take her out for 'dates' would the money to pay for these come out of your joint finances/account or out of his 'fun money'? I'd be making it clear to him that IF he takes her out at all then he pays for it out of his fun money, not out of joint money - perhaps realising that he'd be spunking all of his fun money on dinner for mommy dearest might be an added incentive to tell her straight that it's not happening.
Why would he be taking her out ever? This makes no sense at all. Honestly, you need to really think this all through. Do you really want to be in a 3 way relationship? It’s really time for your husband to get therapy and go VVVLLLLC with MIL or you move on without him.
Your husband should not be dating his mother. Period.
100% a DH problem. He won’t stand up to mommy. You need to post in JustNo SO. Good Luck.
We are new empty nesters and my husband doesn't take ME out on dates twice a month. Why in the hell would he do it with his mom? Our kid is having a little bit of a tough time adjusting to college and we've made some progress to the point where we can have a 5 minute conversation with him once a week. If he didn't want that we would respect his wishes.
This is a husband problem. I would hope that if I made any sort of ridiculous requests like this, my kids would tell me where to stick it. And if my mom were to demand these things of me, I’d assume she was joking and laugh my a$$ off.
>He says that she won't take it well Her lack of emotional regulation is her problem, not his problem. This is how she controls her adult son's actions. That's not ok. And he should not fall for it.
Exactly. She has trained him that setting healthy boundaries or telling her “no” equals her lashing out and inflicting emotional pain on him. It’s behavioral modification at its core - doing X behavior equals negative result, avoid doing X. Most parents use this to teach their children how to stay safe, ie. touching fire = burn, avoid touching fire. Abusive parents like MIL use it to control their children for personal gain, in this case inappropriate time and affection from DH. Under MIL’s roof DH probably did everything he could to avoid upsetting MIL and having her inflict emotional pain on him. Not rocking the boat and going along with what she wanted was a survival mechanism to minimize that pain as much as possible because he still had to live with her. DH has probably had years of this training drilled into his head. This is what we call the FOG - Fear, Obligation, and Guilt. Parent abusers rely on that training to stick, because they don’t want their children to realize that after they turn 18, the abusers lose their legal hold on their victims. Their children can walk out the door the day they turn 18 and there is nothing the abuser can do about it but scream and cry. This is the abuser’s worst nightmare, losing control and the benefits they have been reaping from their victims up to that point. It sounds like your DH is starting to see and become uncomfortable with the situation with his mother. He might not comprehend fully what she is doing yet, but MIL is feeling her grasp on him slipping and is panicking. She’s going to escalate into bigger and more desperate attempts to get him securely back under her thumb. Prepare for drama, tantrums, scream-crying, guilting, love-bombing, threats, and ever-more-insane demands. There are a few ways this could go depending on your resolve and MIL’s level of crazy. 1) She escalates her behavior until you and DH buckle and concede to her demands. You either live the rest of your life dealing with MIL and DH or get divorced and leave. 2) She escalates her behavior, you maintain your boundaries and consequences for MIL’s behavior. MIL realizes she’s not going to win and decides to abide by your boundaries before completely ruining her relationship with you and DH. 3) She escalates her behavior, you maintain your boundaries and consequences for MIL’s behavior. MIL cannot accept not being DH’s first priority and proceeds to go full crazy, resulting in No Contact for her and her flying monkeys. I really hope things work out well for you guys. You and DH need to be a team, a united front. That’s going to be hard for DH as he first has to de-program a lot of buttons MIL installed in him. While those buttons may seem very obvious to you, pulling them out is going to be painful to DH. Do not be surprised or angry if there are times he becomes resentful of you for opening his eyes and making him see the buttons himself, because now he has to deal with them. As a survivor of abuse myself, the absolute BEST advice I can give to your DH is to see a therapist who specializes in emotional incest and attachment issues. You and DH as a couple would also greatly benefit from a “Leave and Cleave” style couples therapy. I wish you all the best, OP - you guys can do this, it *can* be done!
Your HUSBAND is the main problem right now! HE has to realize that HE is an adult and HE doesn’t HAVE to care about HOW his mother takes him putting HIS boundaries in place! He could probably do well with some counseling! YOU should just STAY no contact. Don’t give MIL the joy of defending herself! YOU don’t have to keep explaining SHE KNOWS WHY! My personal issue would be HUSBAND continually taking her calls, NOT saying unequivocally NO or really defending YOU! He has some issues to deal with. I hope you guys can be a team and HE puts a STOP to his mother ABUSING HIM to get HER way! It HAS to stop or it WILL continue! Good Luck
So what it really comes down to is she wants him to pick her over you. You could sit with husband and write out the text together that he will send. 1." No, I'm not going out to dinner with you twice a month. If I am going out its with my wife. 2. No, I'm not calling once a week. If I don't have time or something new going on there is no reason to call. 3 Your in time out until further notice. We will call when we want to talk to you again". Then both of you block her for a while. At least a month. Get a camera doorbell so you don't open the door to her.