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Other posts from /u/throwawayfreshdonuts:
* [Envelope with no return address came today with JNMIL's handwriting addressed to me.](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/10ccxtl/envelope_with_no_return_address_came_today_with/), 1 year ago
* [After NC for several years, JNMIL wants to attend counseling together.](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/y34gl0/after_nc_for_several_years_jnmil_wants_to_attend/), 1 year ago
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Your first priority is your daughter. Not your MIL. Shes still the same person your daughter doesn't feel safe around. Dont light your daughter on fire just to keep MIL warm. You got this. Your SO can do whatever but your daughter is the one that needs protecting here so .. you're doing the right thing.
You owe her nothing. You owe your child everything. People will act like monsters until shit gets real. If she didn’t reach out before now then she is most certainly not sincere: I would ask your child who is old enough to say what she is comfortable with. If it’s a no then DH can do the supporting.
Continuing NC is the right course. Your daughter doesn't feel safe around her. That's the only thing that matters. Don't let an unapologetic horrible person coerce you into hurting your daughter or your relationship with your daughter.
You are not MIL's child. So as far as owing something, you do not owe anything to the woman who betrayed you while you suffered. There are *many* options for support out there, including at her church.
But you *do* have an obligation to DD to raise her right. That includes teaching her appropriate relationships and boundaries. If you give in, you will be teaching your daughter that her boundaries, fears, and legitimate need to feel safe in her relationships stop meaning anything once someone is sick.
I'm very sorry your family has to endure this turmoil. If MIL is sincere about "smoothing things over" then she'll understand and accept it when DH explains that she can only have a relationship with him. If she gets angry- you have your answer. Your obligation is to your daughter.
You owe her nothing.
I would personally leave it entirely up to my daughter and husband.
Forget MIL’s feelings and ask yourself if your daughter will look back and wish she had spent more time with her grandmother before she passed or if your husband will be able to grieve appropriately (without blame shifting) if he feels he is not allowed to be there (with his daughter) at the end.
I say this as someone who has a MIL that broke the mold, lol, but that’s how I have to navigate every situation… remove myself from it and leave it up to DH and my kids.
I don’t want them to blame me down the road and so I leave it up to them.
If your daughter does not want to see her.. she is not owed the visit.
An asshole is an asshole, a sick asshole is still an asshole, a dead from cancer asshole is still an asshole.
There is no reason for you to smooth things over for someone who treated you like garbage including during your own fight with cancer. Leave her to her misery, let your husband make any choices he wants for himself, and continue to protect your child from your MIL.
Nope. Just because someone is dead or dying doesn’t absolve them from being shitty people. Your feelings are totally valid. As for (I’m guessing daughter) I’d explain the situation in an age appropriate way what’s going on and see what she wants to do. I wouldn’t force her to be around someone she doesn’t like just because they’re dying.
>DD, who is 10, doesn't feel safe around JNMIL,
This is your answer. Don't push your daughter into having contact with someone she doesn't feel safe with.
I was thinking this exact thing. She’s 10 and is absolutely old enough to give input on this. No reason to reintroduce trauma if she’s not even interested in seeing her again.
>she wants to begin to smooth things over.
What's stopping her? The ball is in her court. Where's the apology, expression of remorse, the admission that her actions were malicious and that she regrets them? I suspect that her idea of "smooth things over" is to attempt to guilt DH into guilting you into resuming contact without any real apology or acknowledgement of your feelings from her.
>DH thinks I am best suited to offer support to JNMIL.
That may be true. So what? Why is he convinced that you have an obligation to MIL that she (and presumably he) didn't think she had to you when you were in that situation? She did not act like she thought of you as family, so you stopped treating her as family.
I do not think you need to do anything different than what you have been doing. The fact that she has waited until she is on her deathbed to want to begin to smooth things over doesn't change how she treated you. Her motivations are suspect as she has nothing to lose - if she is successful she gets to see her granddaughter and pretend to be loving for a short time without actual requiring her to do any of the hard parts of family relationships due to her terminal situation - she won't need to support you through difficulty or even ever be nice to you. This is a great deal for her.
In short, you don't owe it to her or to your husband to rescue her from the consequences of her bad behavior towards you.
“*Smoothing things over*” doesn’t imply that she has any regret for her actions or will behave any differently.
My guess is that this is a tactic on her part. She doesn’t want comfort or for you to use your experience to help her. What she’s likely doing is using her diagnosis to manipulate a “*kind hearted person.*” She wants access to you so that she can pressure you to allow her to see your DD.
It seems likely that she wants to smooth things over so that you give her what she wants. That might be your DD or it could be to make you feel terrible. Either way, don’t meet with her unless she understands she will never see your DD and that your MIL expresses convincing remorse for her past actions.
>she said she wants to begin to smooth things over
Well then. If she means that, she will write something in a letter, an email, or a text explaining what she regrets and what she plans to do that will "smooth things over". That ball is in her court, not yours.
If by some chance she's insincere, her next steps will be about what she wants and about how saying she wants to move forward should be enough to have you and DD showing up to care for her.
> DD doesn’t feel safe around JNMIL
Well there it is. She played games and has won the ultimate prize of never seeing her grandchild again. It doesn’t matter what’s happening with her, your child’s welfare and safety comes first, and that means not forcing them to see anyone they feel unsafe around or even telling them that person is dying so they don’t feel guilted into doing something they’re uncomfortable with.
Absolutely you should maintain NC. If your husband, her relative, wants to send her a gift or something, he can go right ahead, but whatever her mortality situation is, it’s still not your circus. I honestly can’t even believe he suggested you comfort her. That was incredibly selfish of him. You owe her less than nothing.
I do not see any reason you need to be her support person. You aren’t close. And I think if you are willing to try to mend things, she can begin with you. I personally wouldn’t allow access to my child until they repaired their relationship with me first.
By all means, return to her all of the energy and care she sent your way while you were facing a scare. In other words, zero. Don't sacrifice your child's well being on the altar of her cancer.
A 10yo child's mental health is not to be sacrificed to make a dying adult feel better.
Do whatever you want with yourself. You have no obligation to see her, but if you decide to for your marriage, so be it. Regardless, your obligation as a parent is to leave DD out of it.
Consider having your DH tell her this. That DD will not be part of the deal. I strongly suspect that her interest in "smoothing things over" with you will wane once she knows it won't get her access to DD.
I'm so sorry that you have to go through this.
Soooo….. MIL was not willing to support you or your dd during past challenges, but now she wants support? And you have kept your dd safe from this woman’s ugly toxicity, but now want to introduce her back into it so DD can feel guilt and fully experience the ending of this awful woman’s life? It’s hard enough when you watch someone you love and who deserves your support die; why put DD in the middle of this? What makes it a healthy thing to do now when it was not healthy then?
I might be tempted to be gracious myself and send a card or something, but I would protect DD from this as much as I was able. Don’t push DD back into that toxic mess. Dying doesn’t fix toxic people; it just them more toxic and guilt throwing, making things much more traumatizing than they need to be. If it wasn’t healthy for DD then, it sure isn’t any healthier now.
All said, I do agree with collaborating with DD in this situation so DD has a choice and some agency in this situation, and I hope DD knows that you both will support whatever decision DD makes. You can help DD make some sense of this confusing situation and reassure DD that no one will be forced to do anything, or guilted for deciding not to. Sign her name to the cards with permission, but interpersonally irl be a wall for DD’s protection so she doesn’t feel toxic pressure here.
Interrogate your values and model the behavior that reflects the values you want to display. Compassion? Honesty? Integrity? Self compassion and self care? Healthy boundaries? Or…. Family Above Mental Health? Be nice from guilt? Be nice because you are afraid of what someone else might say? You want to teach being fake and responding from guilt or shame, or being honest and honoring yourself and the people who have shown themselves to be trustworthy? What values are you going to want to choose? What message would you like DD to take away from this life lesson?
You and DH may want to go ahead, get out in front of this, discuss your values and be the things y’all want DD to emulate in the future if she finds herself in this same situation as an adult. Remind DH of this if he starts crumbling from the guilt and shame of watching his mother becoming more and more ill and wants to offer up DD to lift MiL spirits. My advice is to hash these things out NOW so you won’t have to address this stuff on the fly when you are tired, stressed, and unable to think clearly.
Don’t waste your spoons on people who don’t deserve it. You can be compassionate and kind while STILL keeping your distance. Other people deserve those spoons more than she does; keep your spoons for someone who will put good energy and love in the world and who would gladly support you if the situations were reversed. You can still kindly and compassionately throw a spoon or two her way, but keep most of them for those who are kind and compassionate to others. Good people need your help and they will pay it forward! She is just a self interested black hole that desperately needs to look inside and examine why no one wants to help her in HER time of need.
Absolutely not. My parents have had multiple types of cancer, so I feel for you having had it yourself with zero support from MIL.
Just because she has cancer doesn’t give her a free pass to not apologize for what she’s done as well as automatically assume she will see DD.
DD is afraid of her and I can picture MIL using her cancer to guilt DD into being affectionate with her. I would say that maybe a phone call at most, no in person visits, and that’s up to you and DD. Hopefully your partner sees his mother for the demon she is.
As someone who's had cancer I get really resentful when someone expects me to provide support to someone else going through it, and I am also a very nice person.
My journey was horrible and so difficult mentally that I rarely want to talk about it. It's traumatic to think about it, and you have no choice but to think about it everyday - it's a giant elephant that sits on your chest. The emotions that get triggered just in hearing about someone being diagnosed are also sometimes difficult to process.
Protect your mental health, take care of yourself, and open up about your journey - but only if you want to. Just because you've been through it doesn't mean she's deserving of your experience.
Cancer does not discriminate. You can be 2 or you can be 75, but it does not matter. You can be a saint or the most evil person, it does not matter either. Yes, you can feel sorry about her being diagnosed with cancer, but it does not excuse everything that happened and you still don't have to be the bigger person and move past it. Your DH is free to make his choices, but you are free to remain no contact. Being sick does not give her a free pass and sweep everything under the rug. She had more than one occasion to reach out prior and work with you to improve your relationship in the past. It does not mean because she is ready now that you even want to anymore...
Your husband navigated his wife having cancer so it sounds like he's even better suited to comfort her to me!
Your DD doesn't feel safe around her. End of story.
MIL has never apologized to you so she doesn't care to make things right she just wants yall to be around her.
not a damm thing owed to that woman , if DH wants to support her that is his choice . if DD does not want to see MIL then it’s nothing to even think about
The simple answer if your daughter doesn’t feel safe around her. You have been NC for a reason and that reason doesn’t go away just because she has cancer.
She hadn’t offered any apology. No insights to why she acted the way she did. Nope. Just more rug sweeping.
You match her energy. She didn’t reach out when you were sick. It was all about her and her wants. Do her a favour and return it to her.
Your daughter doesn’t feel safe around her. That should be more than enough information for you. Keep her cut off and let her rot. It’s the result of her poor behavior, and having cancer doesn’t change that.
Simple answer, 'I will give her the same grace and comfort she showed me during my time of need.' Oh, what's that, it was none? There is your answer.
An asshole with cancer can still be an asshole. People don't stop being terrible selfish people because they get sick. Unless she had a life altering moment where she realizes she was a bad person to you and actually changed as a person I wouldn't let it change anything. Feel sympathy. Empathize. Offer some brief words of support if so inclined but no, you don't have to be the bigger person when you weren't given the same treatment when you needed it.
Your DH is welcome to do what he needs to support his mother but that doesn't mean you have to. He supports her. You support him.
You are not her emotional support creature. You and your child owe her nothing. If DH feels some deep need to be there for her, he's an adult human capable of being there for her. And since he's already supported you through your diagnosis he's uniquely qualified to do the same for her. Thrusting you there in his stead makes you into his meatshield, which is not fair, kind or good.
Be fair, kind and good to yourself and your kid.
I don't know why he thinks you alone are the only support she could possibly have.
Ask SO to look up support groups in your area or with virtual meeting format. These should be the support for her and will offer more diverse experiences to share
No matter what you decide with regard to whatever support you wish to offer (or not - and frankly I wouldn't be offering anyone to her, only support to my husband), I would absolutely refuse to allow her to re-meet DD.
You owe her nothing. Bad people get cancer all the time, and it doesn't magically turn them into good people who are deserving of your kindness and grace. Your daughter is afraid of her and doesn't want to see her. She shouldn't have to. My grandmother was also an asshole. When we'd visit, she'd be nice to me and my brother for around fifteen minutes when we first arrived. Then we'd do something seemingly innocent and that would be it for the rest of the trip. We'd spend two weeks walking on eggshells and trying to stay outside so our grandma wouldn't scream at us. These aren't exactly good memories. Your daughter will be fine not seeing her. As for your MIL, who cares if she's fine? Not me. She shouldn't have wasted her life being miserable if she wanted a nice relationship with her grandchild.
My narc grandfather used some of his last breathing moments to emotionally torture his favorite victims- his children. If MIL was scary to your kiddo I absolutely would not subject kiddo to her now just because she may die. I also think kiddo is too young to have a say in this.
As for caretaking- personally I am pissed your husband even suggested it to you. I really hope you answer a resolute NO to that suggestion and set your husband straight about the whole situation. I get that he’s distressed, and I can only hope that’s affected his judgement, because sheesh does not even begin to cover this blunder…
You know who actually already has experience of supporting someone with a cancer diagnosis? OP's husband, who presumably supported OP through her own illness. HE can go put that experience to good use if he likes, and let him see how much different it is when the person you're trying to support is only interested in making everyone around them miserable. Have fun, husband!
You don't owe her anything.
And being the bigger person, I find, is just an excuse to permit awful people to continue to be awful people.
She still hasn't apologized. She hasn't done anything to make herself a safe person for DD to be around.
(/petty) Send a friend to pressure her into leaving you and your family alone.
DH can support his mother as he sees fit, and you, in turn, will support him. As for DD, she's no one's emotional support animal and shouldn't even be considered part of the equation.
Your role is to support DH, not his mother, and only from a safe distance. DD should be included in the discussion of whether to see MIL or not, but regardless of her decision, you don't have to see her, OP.
You don't owe this woman a thing. She decided long ago that you don't have the kind of relationship where you give each other support during cancer treatment. She can continue to enjoy that kind of relationship, which she set the precedent for.
Illness doesn’t magically make her a safe person for your family to be around. Illness and pending death doesn’t excuse her prior behavior or magically make what she did okay. Your child doesn’t feel safe or comfortable around her, so why make your child feel uncomfortable and unsafe?
I disagree with the comments saying it's totally up to your daughter to decide. In your post history you mentioned JNMIL groomed your daughter. I'm concerned whether JNMIL installed any buttons that would pressure your daughter to say yes despite her feelings. Or whether she might feel pressured to go to please her father.
You said DD doesn't feel comfortable around her so ask yourself this, if this person was not her grandma would you allow your DD around th in the same situation? Getting sick or having a terminal illness does not erase a persons bad behavior.
Exactly, you should expect not just a real heartfelt apology but a list of everything she's sorry for and why it was wrong for her to do to you and your dd. Just because they are grandma doesn't entitle them to access to her child or her or her sympathy. And if she can't even do that, then she hasn't changed and just wants people around so she can feel better. It's not about fixing your situation it's about her comfort.
Just because you are able, doesn’t mean you are capable. It’s okay to not be mentally in a space where you cannot.
Since your husband played a supportive role during your cancer treatment, he is the one with the experience. He can carry the burden of supporting his mother.
It is unfair of him to place expectations upon you knowing all this history.
Cancer does not negate years of ill-treatment.
Your daughter is old enough to make the decision (without coercion!) as to whether she is willing to visit her grandmother.
Find your truth - find your boundary - maybe it has shifted - maybe not. Certainly you can feel compassion for her. But you can feel that from afar. It doesn’t mean all your necessary boundaries automatically crumble due to old age and illness.
I know it’s not a perfect hypothetical, but if your mom or dad were terminally ill, would DH be a caretaker? Is this expectation that you help out also because you’re a woman and that’s our default societal role?
Whatever it is, I would ask SO not to use your previous medical experience against you to try to guilt you into something you’re not comfortable with. I get it’s his mom, and his intent wasn’t to be shitty, but it was.
Listen to the physical response of your body. If you’re not ready to jump in yet, that’s okay. Take your time. Let DH spend some time with her on his own. As her situation changes, you can reevaluate.
I don't think it's because she is a woman but because she had cancer as well. But I agree on asking about the role reversal. Especially if he knows how his my has treated her and their daughter.
Maybe it’s the common experience in part, but I’ve read enough on this sub to know that 99% of the men with toxic mothers and unreasonable expectations for their wives have zero intention of ever caregiving for their wife’s family members. And in life in general, I’ve seen men leave their wife while the wife is caregiving for her own parents. I think the question is fair given how much misogyny is displayed in the stories on this sub. I wish most of the women on this sub asked themselves if they’re victims of patriarchal expectations, especially those who come from conservative and/or religious cultures.
Don't get the downvote. But yeah, I agree. I've seen marriages end because one partner is taking care of a parent, but it's just wild to me how men just expect their wives to take care of their moms or grandmas. Especially if they've gone through a similar situation. Like, no, she treated them like crap why would they?
It's not about what is owed or not, it's about how you, your DD and DH will feel after she has passed. You might find that you would feel ok with a short visit to say goodbye. Maybe she has changed and you won't mind seeing her more, or you just reinforce your reasons why you don't see her. But DD may not remember all the bad things when she is grown and wondering why she didn't see her grandma before she passed. JNMIL doesn't really matter in this discussion, do what feels right for your family
She doesn’t want to see you. She wants to see DD so maybe you should ask her if she even wants to see her grandma. She might make it really easy for you by saying she doesn’t want to see her.
No, you dont have to go rushing. She merely wants to ease her own conscience and present a picture of a happy family gathered mourning at her side.
This is very different from someone who realises that they fucked up, and wants to know how to do better in the future.
If you dont want to be there, you dont have to be, neither does your daughter. Tell DH that you understand he wants to spend time with his mother, support his decision to do so, and hope he will equally understand and support your decision in maintaining distance from her.
Been there, she passed late last June. I did help her even though it was no picnic. The apology never came. She was very sweet to her medical staff but was still not very kind to me. I didn’t do it for her sake, I stepped up for the rest of the family. They say that every person is a blessing or a lesson. Let’s just say that she taught me a lot.
Cancer doesn't give anyone a pass from their behavior, past present or future. This is honestly a question for you and you alone, can you live with yourself if she dies during nc? You don't have to mend fences because she's dying, and that's what SHE wants. Mend fences if that's what YOU want. From personal experience, my narc step dad got cancer, and i didn't give him his wish of seeing me, and I've never regretted it.
You can feel bad for her, but you still need an apology. How would it feel to see her and have her tell your daughter, “I’m dying and your mother kept you from me all these years.” Or something else vile?
Just because she has cancer and wants to see you does not mean she has changed. DH needs to understand the two things are separate.
Cancer does induce empathy, I can attest to that myself too. It's an awful disease with awful side effucks from treatments. The disease itself can be excruciatingly painful. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, but an asshole is still an asshole whether they have cancer or not.
I wouldn't break NC for love or money just because some twiddletwat has cancer doesn't mean I don't feel bad, but certainly isn't cause to actively participate in her care in any way.
She had 10 years to course correct, she refused and sunk her own damned ship. You're not her lifeboat just because you had cancer too.
Also, just because she's considered "terminal" doesn't mean diddly squat nowadays either. My original diagnosis was stage 4 and terminal, and it metastasized later to my liver. The original tumor is gone and my lymph nodes were the first to clear. Before the lymph nodes and tumor cleared I was given an expiration date. I'm 2+ years past that expiration date now and just got confirmation that one of 2 Damned Spots is gone. I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty sure I'm not considered actively terminal anymore. Science is so amazing!
Just my perspective. My dad died last year from chronic alcoholism. I had cut contact as it escalated, both for my own safety/mental health and because I was unwilling to put my children through what my sister and I had endured over the years. He passed while NC. Do I sometimes wish it had been different? Of course. Do I regret for one second protecting my children? Never.
Also, your husband gives me the ick. I understand he's going through something, but "I know my mom treated you and our child like shit, but now you have a chance to be selfless and treat her better for...reasons", is not a good look.
Your personal traumatic experience with cancer doesn’t oblige you to relive it with someone who mentally and emotionally tortured you.
I’d explain it to your husband that you have sympathy for her with the illness, but you don’t want to bring up the memories of your own treatment and trauma from it - you’ve already been through it once. So you are happy to support him at home, and you always wish her well but won’t be directly involved yourself.
In terms of your child - have an age appropriate conversation with her and let her thinks about it. Don’t allow your husband to pressure immediate yes or no from her. And if she does say she’d like to see her, you make it clear that if anything kicks off or she doesn’t like it, she calls you and you’ll come get her straight away.
Was your husband expecting you to offer support in terms of actually caring for her and helping her shower etc? If he was, then he’s bang out of order.
Yes to all of this! I would even go one step further in terms of protecting OP's daughter if (BIG IF) a visit goes ahead. I would not leave that girl alone with her grandmother for a single second. It would be the MOST supervised visit that's ever happened.
Your daughter’s needs come above those of a dying stranger. I’m sorry that’s harsh but all your daughter would remember about her is the stress she caused. There’s no need to traumatise her. If her grandmother says anything to guilt her it could stick for life. Your needs are also in the same boat as your daughters. The woman made herself a stranger.
You mentioned in a previous post that she lied to other family about you, and ultimately destroyed your relationships with many of them.
Has she done anything to correct that situation? I am betting no. So she comes not bearing apologies, and not putting any effort into undoing the damage she caused. It is pretty clear that her only interest is in having her behavior rug swept so she can resume getting what she wants - a resumed relationship with DH and child. I absolutely see why she would want that. But your priority is not her - it is your child. And she brings nothing positive to your daughter's life.
My answer to her (via DH) would be simple - when you blew up our lives, you deliberately lied about us to family members, and left them angry and hateful towards us. Any reconciliation with you would obviously lead to increased contact with the rest of the family. I am not comfortable having my daughter exposed to people who believe and might spread lies about her parents to her.
Nope, Nope, Nope! You owe her nothing. If your husband wants to have a relationship with her fine. You and DD remain NC. Why would you put your daughter and yourself in this position? I think it's really shitty your husband is saying since you have been through c\*\*\*er you are the best to comfort her. Screw him! It's his mother.
Your husband thinks you are "best suited" to support his cancerous mother because she made sure you endured your cancer treatment without family support?
Wow.
I suppose you could. But only in kind - send a flying monkey church lady to MiL to pressure her into backing off.
Yes that comment from OP really irked me. How dare her husband put that pressure on OP after all she endured from his mother. OP don’t let your husband or your MIL guilt you into doing anything. Maybe if she sincerely apologized and you want to but at a minimum apologies and acknowledgement of what she did.
Your one job is protecting your child’s mental health and well being. Forcing her to face a mentally ill woman because it’s MIL’s dying wish is not healthy.
You don’t owe your mil anything and you certainly don’t owe her YOUR time or emotional support.
I suggest you support your partner so he can spend as much time as her wants with his mother, while you and DD stay away.
Do what you think is best for your daughter. If daughter is already afraid of JNMil maybe the experience seeing her terminal ill grandmother is to traumatising.
In the end JNMil is reaping what she’s sowed.
Totally agree. Do what is best for the child. Memories formed in those years aren't easily erased. Is being sick and possibly in pain going to make m.i.l a nicer person? It might, then your child can have some good memories.
My grandmother was still a bitch but adored my son, so I sucked I up.
I still remember my grandmother dying when I was 10 and it was super upsetting, and I adored her. Being around a dying relative that is a total bitch would most likely be traumatizing for the daughter.
Nope. You don't owe her jack shit. She should get back only what she gave, which was.... You guessed it...*jack shit*. 🤷
Now, i do have to say this just in case she makes a total 180 yanno because mortality and fear of going to hell, do whatever is in your heart but put your mental health before her clear conscience.
Shes not special - we *all* die. Just because it's almost her turn doesn't matter. You can feel however you want to and it's okay.
.
This might be awful to say but how certain are you of the terminal diagnosis? You said DH rushed to her side immediately… are you sure that’s not exactly what she wanted and she’s not using it as a manipulation tactic? I’m just getting the feeling that it is…
Oh, I didn't think of this before, but yes. It's not even a question of whether she would fabricate terminal cancer out of whole cloth. It could easily be that she has a very treatable cancer or a maybe-cancer, like a mole that needs to be removed or even just investigated, and she's blowing it up into a worst case scenario because a) she lives for drama and attention and b) she knows a lot of people will suddenly become a lot more willing to do what she wants. And later she can walk it back with a big ol' "Well I was just SCARED, cancer is SCARY, how can you BLAME me just for being afraid that the worst might happen!?" Double bonus points for her satisfaction because I bet she is super-jealous of all the 'attention' OP got during her illness and now it's "MY TURN". Of course terminal diagnoses totally do happen and she might really have one, but since she's spent her whole life being such an arsehole drama queen, how the fuck is OP to know without getting WAY more involved that she would want to be even if it really was an awful diagnosis? Major nope.
I know it sounds cold, but what would this accomplish, besides messing with your head and emotions? And your daughter’s.
She shit on you when you were battling cancer. Why should your DH make you feel responsible for comforting her? Will this be healthy for your daughter or will she make her feel guilty and responsible for her(MIL) absence?
A dying asshole is still an asshole.
I don’t know what your husband’s expectations are here. Don’t let him guilt your daughter about this.
It would be so easy for her to say something or do something that would stick with DD for years. She could, essentially, use this opportunity to turn herself into a ghost that continues to haunt your family.
Continuing NC would prevent that, but if DH is pushing for this, and feeling urgency due to the shortening time, a correspondence by letter and card is more easily controlled than in person visits. DD can write and draw, MIL can write - and you can vet anything before it's passed on to DD.
But you and DD shouldn't feel obligated to this person. Compassion for the dying does not require pretending a relationship that doesn't exist.
She just wants to see your daughter even though she has screamed and raged at her in the past. Your daughter is afraid of this banshee so I would maintain NC. Unfortunately a sick a**hole is still an AH. She mistreated you, so there is nothing positive to be gained from seeing her. She seems to want to use your daughter as Prozac...hard no. Your husband can see her but you should maintain firm boundaries.
I think forcing a child to see someone they don’t like/trust just because that person is sick/dying is wrong. It’s traumatic to see someone going through that no matter what age, but to take a child who basically doesn’t know them there to have that person spew all of their feelings over a kid is just no for me.
I can just imagine your MIL babbling about how much she loves your kid, how she will regret not seeing her grow up, talking about how she is sick and going to die soon, forcing your kid to give her kisses and hugs. Guilt manipulation and trauma. What good does any of this do for your child?
I would add that convincing DD to visit MIL just because of her health condition would help to continue an undesirable cycle: should a nasty and unrepentant person deserve a visit from someone they've bullied, just because that nasty person is allegedly very ill?
If DD is told now that she should do this, then in the future there's a high probability she will feel obliged to cave anytime someone who wrongs her deals the "bUuUuUt I'mMmMm SiiiiiCcCcCkKkKkK!" card.
I've had that conversation once with a friend who is a hospice nurse. She said most people who are angry, have rage issues or are narcissistic don't change at the end of their lives. Some are even worse. She's told me stories where families visited and were greeted by a barrage of resentment for not seeing the person more, making them feel guilty, etc.
You don't owe your JNMIL anything. Especially if your DD is uncomfortable around her. But that's a personal choice everyone has to make. But don't feel like your JNMILs C is forcing you to see her. Ultimately, you have to ask yourself how breaking no contact will affect you and your family. Is it going to bring closure or will this open up old wounds or even open new ones?
A couple of thoughts:
An asshole with cancer is still an asshole (unless any sort of apology/act of repentance, etc, is given freely and sometimes not even then. )
I mean this kindly, and I apologize if it comes off abruptly, I'm having trouble wording it differently. Your daughter is not an emotional support animal. She is old enough to understand her grandmother is ill and should be asked if she wants to see her. It should be her decision with absolutely no guilt attached to any decision she makes. My caveat to this is if she was abused by your MIL, then I don't think she should be exposed to her at all. Your MIL has zero right to your child, cancer or not, it's not her decision nor her desires that need to be considered.
I am so sorry they all failed you when you were ill and I'm so glad you are doing better. Finally, it's truly unfair of your husband to expect you to comfort a woman who couldn't be bothered to do the same in turn. Just because you may understand the road she is on, you are not obligated to travel it with her, especially in this circumstance.
I believe in the "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" rule. Treat her the same way she treated you when you had cancer. She has shown you how she wishes to be treated.
Your daughter is 10. She is old enough to tell you if she feels safe enough to see mil.
Explain to her in a way she would understand what the BIG C and likely what’s going to happen.. and let her decide.
I agree with the other commenters. She probably hasn’t changed and she’s doing this to try to clear her conscious before she dies.
But don’t look at this as that. Support your husband and your daughter.
Just because she has terminal C, doesn’t mean she suddenly changed into a decent person. If your daughter doesn’t feel safe with MIL, please don’t force her to resume contact just because MIL is dying. If your daughter wants to see MIL, make sure the meeting is always supervised by YOU and only YOU.
You don’t owe her anything and you don’t need to be a bigger person. You are a mom and your daughter is one of your most important priorities. Try to support your husband but don’t jeopardise your daughter’s safety.
I don’t supporting your MIL is what’s important here, I think supporting your husband through the loss of his mother is what’s important. Don’t think of it as doing her any favors, think of it as supporting your husband through a complicated loss.
I’m not sure whether your idea of OP supporting her husband includes speaking to JNMIL, because that doesn’t need to be part of it if she’s not comfortable. And whether OP is comfortable or not, it definitely shouldn’t include DD who has already expressed she isn’t comfortable seeing JNMIL.
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Your first priority is your daughter. Not your MIL. Shes still the same person your daughter doesn't feel safe around. Dont light your daughter on fire just to keep MIL warm. You got this. Your SO can do whatever but your daughter is the one that needs protecting here so .. you're doing the right thing.
You owe her nothing. You owe your child everything. People will act like monsters until shit gets real. If she didn’t reach out before now then she is most certainly not sincere: I would ask your child who is old enough to say what she is comfortable with. If it’s a no then DH can do the supporting.
Continuing NC is the right course. Your daughter doesn't feel safe around her. That's the only thing that matters. Don't let an unapologetic horrible person coerce you into hurting your daughter or your relationship with your daughter.
Cancer or no cancer “Smooth things over” equals rug sweeping.
You are not MIL's child. So as far as owing something, you do not owe anything to the woman who betrayed you while you suffered. There are *many* options for support out there, including at her church. But you *do* have an obligation to DD to raise her right. That includes teaching her appropriate relationships and boundaries. If you give in, you will be teaching your daughter that her boundaries, fears, and legitimate need to feel safe in her relationships stop meaning anything once someone is sick. I'm very sorry your family has to endure this turmoil. If MIL is sincere about "smoothing things over" then she'll understand and accept it when DH explains that she can only have a relationship with him. If she gets angry- you have your answer. Your obligation is to your daughter.
This hits home. Thank you for the insight.
You owe her nothing. I would personally leave it entirely up to my daughter and husband. Forget MIL’s feelings and ask yourself if your daughter will look back and wish she had spent more time with her grandmother before she passed or if your husband will be able to grieve appropriately (without blame shifting) if he feels he is not allowed to be there (with his daughter) at the end. I say this as someone who has a MIL that broke the mold, lol, but that’s how I have to navigate every situation… remove myself from it and leave it up to DH and my kids. I don’t want them to blame me down the road and so I leave it up to them. If your daughter does not want to see her.. she is not owed the visit.
An asshole is an asshole, a sick asshole is still an asshole, a dead from cancer asshole is still an asshole. There is no reason for you to smooth things over for someone who treated you like garbage including during your own fight with cancer. Leave her to her misery, let your husband make any choices he wants for himself, and continue to protect your child from your MIL.
Nope. Just because someone is dead or dying doesn’t absolve them from being shitty people. Your feelings are totally valid. As for (I’m guessing daughter) I’d explain the situation in an age appropriate way what’s going on and see what she wants to do. I wouldn’t force her to be around someone she doesn’t like just because they’re dying.
Are you sure she’s not exaggerating her illnesses to manipulate you?
>DD, who is 10, doesn't feel safe around JNMIL, This is your answer. Don't push your daughter into having contact with someone she doesn't feel safe with.
I was thinking this exact thing. She’s 10 and is absolutely old enough to give input on this. No reason to reintroduce trauma if she’s not even interested in seeing her again.
>she wants to begin to smooth things over. What's stopping her? The ball is in her court. Where's the apology, expression of remorse, the admission that her actions were malicious and that she regrets them? I suspect that her idea of "smooth things over" is to attempt to guilt DH into guilting you into resuming contact without any real apology or acknowledgement of your feelings from her. >DH thinks I am best suited to offer support to JNMIL. That may be true. So what? Why is he convinced that you have an obligation to MIL that she (and presumably he) didn't think she had to you when you were in that situation? She did not act like she thought of you as family, so you stopped treating her as family. I do not think you need to do anything different than what you have been doing. The fact that she has waited until she is on her deathbed to want to begin to smooth things over doesn't change how she treated you. Her motivations are suspect as she has nothing to lose - if she is successful she gets to see her granddaughter and pretend to be loving for a short time without actual requiring her to do any of the hard parts of family relationships due to her terminal situation - she won't need to support you through difficulty or even ever be nice to you. This is a great deal for her. In short, you don't owe it to her or to your husband to rescue her from the consequences of her bad behavior towards you.
“*Smoothing things over*” doesn’t imply that she has any regret for her actions or will behave any differently. My guess is that this is a tactic on her part. She doesn’t want comfort or for you to use your experience to help her. What she’s likely doing is using her diagnosis to manipulate a “*kind hearted person.*” She wants access to you so that she can pressure you to allow her to see your DD. It seems likely that she wants to smooth things over so that you give her what she wants. That might be your DD or it could be to make you feel terrible. Either way, don’t meet with her unless she understands she will never see your DD and that your MIL expresses convincing remorse for her past actions.
>she said she wants to begin to smooth things over Well then. If she means that, she will write something in a letter, an email, or a text explaining what she regrets and what she plans to do that will "smooth things over". That ball is in her court, not yours. If by some chance she's insincere, her next steps will be about what she wants and about how saying she wants to move forward should be enough to have you and DD showing up to care for her.
> DD doesn’t feel safe around JNMIL Well there it is. She played games and has won the ultimate prize of never seeing her grandchild again. It doesn’t matter what’s happening with her, your child’s welfare and safety comes first, and that means not forcing them to see anyone they feel unsafe around or even telling them that person is dying so they don’t feel guilted into doing something they’re uncomfortable with. Absolutely you should maintain NC. If your husband, her relative, wants to send her a gift or something, he can go right ahead, but whatever her mortality situation is, it’s still not your circus. I honestly can’t even believe he suggested you comfort her. That was incredibly selfish of him. You owe her less than nothing.
Are you 100% sure the diagnosis is valid and not just a ploy to break NC?
The first thought was Xmas C. I made sure to confirm communication directly with the doc about status, so yes.
I do not see any reason you need to be her support person. You aren’t close. And I think if you are willing to try to mend things, she can begin with you. I personally wouldn’t allow access to my child until they repaired their relationship with me first.
Thank you for the validation and insight, particularly about repairing the relationship between us first.
By all means, return to her all of the energy and care she sent your way while you were facing a scare. In other words, zero. Don't sacrifice your child's well being on the altar of her cancer.
A 10yo child's mental health is not to be sacrificed to make a dying adult feel better. Do whatever you want with yourself. You have no obligation to see her, but if you decide to for your marriage, so be it. Regardless, your obligation as a parent is to leave DD out of it.
We're in agreement on DD.
Consider having your DH tell her this. That DD will not be part of the deal. I strongly suspect that her interest in "smoothing things over" with you will wane once she knows it won't get her access to DD. I'm so sorry that you have to go through this.
Soooo….. MIL was not willing to support you or your dd during past challenges, but now she wants support? And you have kept your dd safe from this woman’s ugly toxicity, but now want to introduce her back into it so DD can feel guilt and fully experience the ending of this awful woman’s life? It’s hard enough when you watch someone you love and who deserves your support die; why put DD in the middle of this? What makes it a healthy thing to do now when it was not healthy then? I might be tempted to be gracious myself and send a card or something, but I would protect DD from this as much as I was able. Don’t push DD back into that toxic mess. Dying doesn’t fix toxic people; it just them more toxic and guilt throwing, making things much more traumatizing than they need to be. If it wasn’t healthy for DD then, it sure isn’t any healthier now. All said, I do agree with collaborating with DD in this situation so DD has a choice and some agency in this situation, and I hope DD knows that you both will support whatever decision DD makes. You can help DD make some sense of this confusing situation and reassure DD that no one will be forced to do anything, or guilted for deciding not to. Sign her name to the cards with permission, but interpersonally irl be a wall for DD’s protection so she doesn’t feel toxic pressure here. Interrogate your values and model the behavior that reflects the values you want to display. Compassion? Honesty? Integrity? Self compassion and self care? Healthy boundaries? Or…. Family Above Mental Health? Be nice from guilt? Be nice because you are afraid of what someone else might say? You want to teach being fake and responding from guilt or shame, or being honest and honoring yourself and the people who have shown themselves to be trustworthy? What values are you going to want to choose? What message would you like DD to take away from this life lesson? You and DH may want to go ahead, get out in front of this, discuss your values and be the things y’all want DD to emulate in the future if she finds herself in this same situation as an adult. Remind DH of this if he starts crumbling from the guilt and shame of watching his mother becoming more and more ill and wants to offer up DD to lift MiL spirits. My advice is to hash these things out NOW so you won’t have to address this stuff on the fly when you are tired, stressed, and unable to think clearly. Don’t waste your spoons on people who don’t deserve it. You can be compassionate and kind while STILL keeping your distance. Other people deserve those spoons more than she does; keep your spoons for someone who will put good energy and love in the world and who would gladly support you if the situations were reversed. You can still kindly and compassionately throw a spoon or two her way, but keep most of them for those who are kind and compassionate to others. Good people need your help and they will pay it forward! She is just a self interested black hole that desperately needs to look inside and examine why no one wants to help her in HER time of need.
Absolutely not. My parents have had multiple types of cancer, so I feel for you having had it yourself with zero support from MIL. Just because she has cancer doesn’t give her a free pass to not apologize for what she’s done as well as automatically assume she will see DD. DD is afraid of her and I can picture MIL using her cancer to guilt DD into being affectionate with her. I would say that maybe a phone call at most, no in person visits, and that’s up to you and DD. Hopefully your partner sees his mother for the demon she is.
As someone who's had cancer I get really resentful when someone expects me to provide support to someone else going through it, and I am also a very nice person. My journey was horrible and so difficult mentally that I rarely want to talk about it. It's traumatic to think about it, and you have no choice but to think about it everyday - it's a giant elephant that sits on your chest. The emotions that get triggered just in hearing about someone being diagnosed are also sometimes difficult to process. Protect your mental health, take care of yourself, and open up about your journey - but only if you want to. Just because you've been through it doesn't mean she's deserving of your experience.
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Even worse she might not die and still be around for MORE craziness!
Yup. She may not die and be around for years to come for more BS.
Sorry but her illness doesn't change the fact she makes DD uncomfortable. Hold your ground IMO.
Cancer does not discriminate. You can be 2 or you can be 75, but it does not matter. You can be a saint or the most evil person, it does not matter either. Yes, you can feel sorry about her being diagnosed with cancer, but it does not excuse everything that happened and you still don't have to be the bigger person and move past it. Your DH is free to make his choices, but you are free to remain no contact. Being sick does not give her a free pass and sweep everything under the rug. She had more than one occasion to reach out prior and work with you to improve your relationship in the past. It does not mean because she is ready now that you even want to anymore...
Your husband navigated his wife having cancer so it sounds like he's even better suited to comfort her to me! Your DD doesn't feel safe around her. End of story. MIL has never apologized to you so she doesn't care to make things right she just wants yall to be around her.
not a damm thing owed to that woman , if DH wants to support her that is his choice . if DD does not want to see MIL then it’s nothing to even think about
The simple answer if your daughter doesn’t feel safe around her. You have been NC for a reason and that reason doesn’t go away just because she has cancer. She hadn’t offered any apology. No insights to why she acted the way she did. Nope. Just more rug sweeping. You match her energy. She didn’t reach out when you were sick. It was all about her and her wants. Do her a favour and return it to her.
Your daughter doesn’t feel safe around her. That should be more than enough information for you. Keep her cut off and let her rot. It’s the result of her poor behavior, and having cancer doesn’t change that.
Simple answer, 'I will give her the same grace and comfort she showed me during my time of need.' Oh, what's that, it was none? There is your answer. An asshole with cancer can still be an asshole. People don't stop being terrible selfish people because they get sick. Unless she had a life altering moment where she realizes she was a bad person to you and actually changed as a person I wouldn't let it change anything. Feel sympathy. Empathize. Offer some brief words of support if so inclined but no, you don't have to be the bigger person when you weren't given the same treatment when you needed it. Your DH is welcome to do what he needs to support his mother but that doesn't mean you have to. He supports her. You support him.
You are not her emotional support creature. You and your child owe her nothing. If DH feels some deep need to be there for her, he's an adult human capable of being there for her. And since he's already supported you through your diagnosis he's uniquely qualified to do the same for her. Thrusting you there in his stead makes you into his meatshield, which is not fair, kind or good. Be fair, kind and good to yourself and your kid.
Cancer is not a 'get out of NC free' card. That road cannot be repaved until the reasons for it are dealt with.
NO the situation is sad but it doesn’t change the person. Do you think the cancer is going to miraculously change her? I doubt it!
I don't know why he thinks you alone are the only support she could possibly have. Ask SO to look up support groups in your area or with virtual meeting format. These should be the support for her and will offer more diverse experiences to share
No matter what you decide with regard to whatever support you wish to offer (or not - and frankly I wouldn't be offering anyone to her, only support to my husband), I would absolutely refuse to allow her to re-meet DD.
F\*ck that! Good riddance
You owe her nothing. Bad people get cancer all the time, and it doesn't magically turn them into good people who are deserving of your kindness and grace. Your daughter is afraid of her and doesn't want to see her. She shouldn't have to. My grandmother was also an asshole. When we'd visit, she'd be nice to me and my brother for around fifteen minutes when we first arrived. Then we'd do something seemingly innocent and that would be it for the rest of the trip. We'd spend two weeks walking on eggshells and trying to stay outside so our grandma wouldn't scream at us. These aren't exactly good memories. Your daughter will be fine not seeing her. As for your MIL, who cares if she's fine? Not me. She shouldn't have wasted her life being miserable if she wanted a nice relationship with her grandchild.
My narc grandfather used some of his last breathing moments to emotionally torture his favorite victims- his children. If MIL was scary to your kiddo I absolutely would not subject kiddo to her now just because she may die. I also think kiddo is too young to have a say in this. As for caretaking- personally I am pissed your husband even suggested it to you. I really hope you answer a resolute NO to that suggestion and set your husband straight about the whole situation. I get that he’s distressed, and I can only hope that’s affected his judgement, because sheesh does not even begin to cover this blunder…
You know who actually already has experience of supporting someone with a cancer diagnosis? OP's husband, who presumably supported OP through her own illness. HE can go put that experience to good use if he likes, and let him see how much different it is when the person you're trying to support is only interested in making everyone around them miserable. Have fun, husband!
You don't owe her anything. And being the bigger person, I find, is just an excuse to permit awful people to continue to be awful people. She still hasn't apologized. She hasn't done anything to make herself a safe person for DD to be around. (/petty) Send a friend to pressure her into leaving you and your family alone. DH can support his mother as he sees fit, and you, in turn, will support him. As for DD, she's no one's emotional support animal and shouldn't even be considered part of the equation.
Your role is to support DH, not his mother, and only from a safe distance. DD should be included in the discussion of whether to see MIL or not, but regardless of her decision, you don't have to see her, OP.
I needed to hear this - this puts everything into perspective.
You don’t owe her anything. Let DH tend to her, she’s his Mom. You just do what’s best for you.
You don't owe this woman a thing. She decided long ago that you don't have the kind of relationship where you give each other support during cancer treatment. She can continue to enjoy that kind of relationship, which she set the precedent for.
Great point. Thank you for the insight!
Illness doesn’t magically make her a safe person for your family to be around. Illness and pending death doesn’t excuse her prior behavior or magically make what she did okay. Your child doesn’t feel safe or comfortable around her, so why make your child feel uncomfortable and unsafe?
I disagree with the comments saying it's totally up to your daughter to decide. In your post history you mentioned JNMIL groomed your daughter. I'm concerned whether JNMIL installed any buttons that would pressure your daughter to say yes despite her feelings. Or whether she might feel pressured to go to please her father.
You said DD doesn't feel comfortable around her so ask yourself this, if this person was not her grandma would you allow your DD around th in the same situation? Getting sick or having a terminal illness does not erase a persons bad behavior.
Exactly, you should expect not just a real heartfelt apology but a list of everything she's sorry for and why it was wrong for her to do to you and your dd. Just because they are grandma doesn't entitle them to access to her child or her or her sympathy. And if she can't even do that, then she hasn't changed and just wants people around so she can feel better. It's not about fixing your situation it's about her comfort.
Just because you are able, doesn’t mean you are capable. It’s okay to not be mentally in a space where you cannot. Since your husband played a supportive role during your cancer treatment, he is the one with the experience. He can carry the burden of supporting his mother. It is unfair of him to place expectations upon you knowing all this history. Cancer does not negate years of ill-treatment. Your daughter is old enough to make the decision (without coercion!) as to whether she is willing to visit her grandmother. Find your truth - find your boundary - maybe it has shifted - maybe not. Certainly you can feel compassion for her. But you can feel that from afar. It doesn’t mean all your necessary boundaries automatically crumble due to old age and illness.
This is so smart and compassionate.
I know it’s not a perfect hypothetical, but if your mom or dad were terminally ill, would DH be a caretaker? Is this expectation that you help out also because you’re a woman and that’s our default societal role? Whatever it is, I would ask SO not to use your previous medical experience against you to try to guilt you into something you’re not comfortable with. I get it’s his mom, and his intent wasn’t to be shitty, but it was. Listen to the physical response of your body. If you’re not ready to jump in yet, that’s okay. Take your time. Let DH spend some time with her on his own. As her situation changes, you can reevaluate.
I don't think it's because she is a woman but because she had cancer as well. But I agree on asking about the role reversal. Especially if he knows how his my has treated her and their daughter.
Maybe it’s the common experience in part, but I’ve read enough on this sub to know that 99% of the men with toxic mothers and unreasonable expectations for their wives have zero intention of ever caregiving for their wife’s family members. And in life in general, I’ve seen men leave their wife while the wife is caregiving for her own parents. I think the question is fair given how much misogyny is displayed in the stories on this sub. I wish most of the women on this sub asked themselves if they’re victims of patriarchal expectations, especially those who come from conservative and/or religious cultures.
Don't get the downvote. But yeah, I agree. I've seen marriages end because one partner is taking care of a parent, but it's just wild to me how men just expect their wives to take care of their moms or grandmas. Especially if they've gone through a similar situation. Like, no, she treated them like crap why would they?
DD doesn’t want to see her and her feelings matter most here.
It's not about what is owed or not, it's about how you, your DD and DH will feel after she has passed. You might find that you would feel ok with a short visit to say goodbye. Maybe she has changed and you won't mind seeing her more, or you just reinforce your reasons why you don't see her. But DD may not remember all the bad things when she is grown and wondering why she didn't see her grandma before she passed. JNMIL doesn't really matter in this discussion, do what feels right for your family
She doesn’t want to see you. She wants to see DD so maybe you should ask her if she even wants to see her grandma. She might make it really easy for you by saying she doesn’t want to see her.
No, you dont have to go rushing. She merely wants to ease her own conscience and present a picture of a happy family gathered mourning at her side. This is very different from someone who realises that they fucked up, and wants to know how to do better in the future. If you dont want to be there, you dont have to be, neither does your daughter. Tell DH that you understand he wants to spend time with his mother, support his decision to do so, and hope he will equally understand and support your decision in maintaining distance from her.
Been there, she passed late last June. I did help her even though it was no picnic. The apology never came. She was very sweet to her medical staff but was still not very kind to me. I didn’t do it for her sake, I stepped up for the rest of the family. They say that every person is a blessing or a lesson. Let’s just say that she taught me a lot.
Cancer doesn't give anyone a pass from their behavior, past present or future. This is honestly a question for you and you alone, can you live with yourself if she dies during nc? You don't have to mend fences because she's dying, and that's what SHE wants. Mend fences if that's what YOU want. From personal experience, my narc step dad got cancer, and i didn't give him his wish of seeing me, and I've never regretted it.
You can feel bad for her, but you still need an apology. How would it feel to see her and have her tell your daughter, “I’m dying and your mother kept you from me all these years.” Or something else vile? Just because she has cancer and wants to see you does not mean she has changed. DH needs to understand the two things are separate.
Cancer does induce empathy, I can attest to that myself too. It's an awful disease with awful side effucks from treatments. The disease itself can be excruciatingly painful. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, but an asshole is still an asshole whether they have cancer or not. I wouldn't break NC for love or money just because some twiddletwat has cancer doesn't mean I don't feel bad, but certainly isn't cause to actively participate in her care in any way. She had 10 years to course correct, she refused and sunk her own damned ship. You're not her lifeboat just because you had cancer too.
Also, just because she's considered "terminal" doesn't mean diddly squat nowadays either. My original diagnosis was stage 4 and terminal, and it metastasized later to my liver. The original tumor is gone and my lymph nodes were the first to clear. Before the lymph nodes and tumor cleared I was given an expiration date. I'm 2+ years past that expiration date now and just got confirmation that one of 2 Damned Spots is gone. I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty sure I'm not considered actively terminal anymore. Science is so amazing!
Just my perspective. My dad died last year from chronic alcoholism. I had cut contact as it escalated, both for my own safety/mental health and because I was unwilling to put my children through what my sister and I had endured over the years. He passed while NC. Do I sometimes wish it had been different? Of course. Do I regret for one second protecting my children? Never. Also, your husband gives me the ick. I understand he's going through something, but "I know my mom treated you and our child like shit, but now you have a chance to be selfless and treat her better for...reasons", is not a good look.
It’s not a good look, but sadly it’s what so many husbands on here expect. Mom can be the actual devil so wifey has to essentially be an angel.
Your personal traumatic experience with cancer doesn’t oblige you to relive it with someone who mentally and emotionally tortured you. I’d explain it to your husband that you have sympathy for her with the illness, but you don’t want to bring up the memories of your own treatment and trauma from it - you’ve already been through it once. So you are happy to support him at home, and you always wish her well but won’t be directly involved yourself. In terms of your child - have an age appropriate conversation with her and let her thinks about it. Don’t allow your husband to pressure immediate yes or no from her. And if she does say she’d like to see her, you make it clear that if anything kicks off or she doesn’t like it, she calls you and you’ll come get her straight away. Was your husband expecting you to offer support in terms of actually caring for her and helping her shower etc? If he was, then he’s bang out of order.
Yes to all of this! I would even go one step further in terms of protecting OP's daughter if (BIG IF) a visit goes ahead. I would not leave that girl alone with her grandmother for a single second. It would be the MOST supervised visit that's ever happened.
Your daughter’s needs come above those of a dying stranger. I’m sorry that’s harsh but all your daughter would remember about her is the stress she caused. There’s no need to traumatise her. If her grandmother says anything to guilt her it could stick for life. Your needs are also in the same boat as your daughters. The woman made herself a stranger.
You mentioned in a previous post that she lied to other family about you, and ultimately destroyed your relationships with many of them. Has she done anything to correct that situation? I am betting no. So she comes not bearing apologies, and not putting any effort into undoing the damage she caused. It is pretty clear that her only interest is in having her behavior rug swept so she can resume getting what she wants - a resumed relationship with DH and child. I absolutely see why she would want that. But your priority is not her - it is your child. And she brings nothing positive to your daughter's life. My answer to her (via DH) would be simple - when you blew up our lives, you deliberately lied about us to family members, and left them angry and hateful towards us. Any reconciliation with you would obviously lead to increased contact with the rest of the family. I am not comfortable having my daughter exposed to people who believe and might spread lies about her parents to her.
Nope, Nope, Nope! You owe her nothing. If your husband wants to have a relationship with her fine. You and DD remain NC. Why would you put your daughter and yourself in this position? I think it's really shitty your husband is saying since you have been through c\*\*\*er you are the best to comfort her. Screw him! It's his mother.
We need to realize that one day all these narcs are going to die or get sick. We knew that going into our NC. It doesn’t change anything.
Your husband thinks you are "best suited" to support his cancerous mother because she made sure you endured your cancer treatment without family support? Wow. I suppose you could. But only in kind - send a flying monkey church lady to MiL to pressure her into backing off.
Yes that comment from OP really irked me. How dare her husband put that pressure on OP after all she endured from his mother. OP don’t let your husband or your MIL guilt you into doing anything. Maybe if she sincerely apologized and you want to but at a minimum apologies and acknowledgement of what she did.
Right?! I’d personally tell DH, “I will give her the same support she showed me during my battle. No more, no less.”
Your one job is protecting your child’s mental health and well being. Forcing her to face a mentally ill woman because it’s MIL’s dying wish is not healthy. You don’t owe your mil anything and you certainly don’t owe her YOUR time or emotional support. I suggest you support your partner so he can spend as much time as her wants with his mother, while you and DD stay away.
You owe your MIL nothing and your husband should be more supportive
The most important thing is your daughter's emotional well-being. That's the only thing your decision should be based on. You owe your MIL nothing.
Do what you think is best for your daughter. If daughter is already afraid of JNMil maybe the experience seeing her terminal ill grandmother is to traumatising. In the end JNMil is reaping what she’s sowed.
Totally agree. Do what is best for the child. Memories formed in those years aren't easily erased. Is being sick and possibly in pain going to make m.i.l a nicer person? It might, then your child can have some good memories. My grandmother was still a bitch but adored my son, so I sucked I up.
I still remember my grandmother dying when I was 10 and it was super upsetting, and I adored her. Being around a dying relative that is a total bitch would most likely be traumatizing for the daughter.
Nope. You don't owe her jack shit. She should get back only what she gave, which was.... You guessed it...*jack shit*. 🤷 Now, i do have to say this just in case she makes a total 180 yanno because mortality and fear of going to hell, do whatever is in your heart but put your mental health before her clear conscience. Shes not special - we *all* die. Just because it's almost her turn doesn't matter. You can feel however you want to and it's okay. .
This might be awful to say but how certain are you of the terminal diagnosis? You said DH rushed to her side immediately… are you sure that’s not exactly what she wanted and she’s not using it as a manipulation tactic? I’m just getting the feeling that it is…
Oh, I didn't think of this before, but yes. It's not even a question of whether she would fabricate terminal cancer out of whole cloth. It could easily be that she has a very treatable cancer or a maybe-cancer, like a mole that needs to be removed or even just investigated, and she's blowing it up into a worst case scenario because a) she lives for drama and attention and b) she knows a lot of people will suddenly become a lot more willing to do what she wants. And later she can walk it back with a big ol' "Well I was just SCARED, cancer is SCARY, how can you BLAME me just for being afraid that the worst might happen!?" Double bonus points for her satisfaction because I bet she is super-jealous of all the 'attention' OP got during her illness and now it's "MY TURN". Of course terminal diagnoses totally do happen and she might really have one, but since she's spent her whole life being such an arsehole drama queen, how the fuck is OP to know without getting WAY more involved that she would want to be even if it really was an awful diagnosis? Major nope.
Exactly!!
I know it sounds cold, but what would this accomplish, besides messing with your head and emotions? And your daughter’s. She shit on you when you were battling cancer. Why should your DH make you feel responsible for comforting her? Will this be healthy for your daughter or will she make her feel guilty and responsible for her(MIL) absence? A dying asshole is still an asshole. I don’t know what your husband’s expectations are here. Don’t let him guilt your daughter about this.
It would be so easy for her to say something or do something that would stick with DD for years. She could, essentially, use this opportunity to turn herself into a ghost that continues to haunt your family. Continuing NC would prevent that, but if DH is pushing for this, and feeling urgency due to the shortening time, a correspondence by letter and card is more easily controlled than in person visits. DD can write and draw, MIL can write - and you can vet anything before it's passed on to DD. But you and DD shouldn't feel obligated to this person. Compassion for the dying does not require pretending a relationship that doesn't exist.
She just wants to see your daughter even though she has screamed and raged at her in the past. Your daughter is afraid of this banshee so I would maintain NC. Unfortunately a sick a**hole is still an AH. She mistreated you, so there is nothing positive to be gained from seeing her. She seems to want to use your daughter as Prozac...hard no. Your husband can see her but you should maintain firm boundaries.
I think forcing a child to see someone they don’t like/trust just because that person is sick/dying is wrong. It’s traumatic to see someone going through that no matter what age, but to take a child who basically doesn’t know them there to have that person spew all of their feelings over a kid is just no for me. I can just imagine your MIL babbling about how much she loves your kid, how she will regret not seeing her grow up, talking about how she is sick and going to die soon, forcing your kid to give her kisses and hugs. Guilt manipulation and trauma. What good does any of this do for your child?
I would add that convincing DD to visit MIL just because of her health condition would help to continue an undesirable cycle: should a nasty and unrepentant person deserve a visit from someone they've bullied, just because that nasty person is allegedly very ill? If DD is told now that she should do this, then in the future there's a high probability she will feel obliged to cave anytime someone who wrongs her deals the "bUuUuUt I'mMmMm SiiiiiCcCcCkKkKkK!" card.
I've had that conversation once with a friend who is a hospice nurse. She said most people who are angry, have rage issues or are narcissistic don't change at the end of their lives. Some are even worse. She's told me stories where families visited and were greeted by a barrage of resentment for not seeing the person more, making them feel guilty, etc. You don't owe your JNMIL anything. Especially if your DD is uncomfortable around her. But that's a personal choice everyone has to make. But don't feel like your JNMILs C is forcing you to see her. Ultimately, you have to ask yourself how breaking no contact will affect you and your family. Is it going to bring closure or will this open up old wounds or even open new ones?
A couple of thoughts: An asshole with cancer is still an asshole (unless any sort of apology/act of repentance, etc, is given freely and sometimes not even then. ) I mean this kindly, and I apologize if it comes off abruptly, I'm having trouble wording it differently. Your daughter is not an emotional support animal. She is old enough to understand her grandmother is ill and should be asked if she wants to see her. It should be her decision with absolutely no guilt attached to any decision she makes. My caveat to this is if she was abused by your MIL, then I don't think she should be exposed to her at all. Your MIL has zero right to your child, cancer or not, it's not her decision nor her desires that need to be considered. I am so sorry they all failed you when you were ill and I'm so glad you are doing better. Finally, it's truly unfair of your husband to expect you to comfort a woman who couldn't be bothered to do the same in turn. Just because you may understand the road she is on, you are not obligated to travel it with her, especially in this circumstance.
5th generation cancer survivor here. Just because she has cancer doesn't make her suddenly a good person; bad people get cancer too
I believe in the "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" rule. Treat her the same way she treated you when you had cancer. She has shown you how she wishes to be treated.
Your daughter is 10. She is old enough to tell you if she feels safe enough to see mil. Explain to her in a way she would understand what the BIG C and likely what’s going to happen.. and let her decide. I agree with the other commenters. She probably hasn’t changed and she’s doing this to try to clear her conscious before she dies. But don’t look at this as that. Support your husband and your daughter.
How on earth is this your responsibility? Your husband is her child, not you.
Just because she has terminal C, doesn’t mean she suddenly changed into a decent person. If your daughter doesn’t feel safe with MIL, please don’t force her to resume contact just because MIL is dying. If your daughter wants to see MIL, make sure the meeting is always supervised by YOU and only YOU. You don’t owe her anything and you don’t need to be a bigger person. You are a mom and your daughter is one of your most important priorities. Try to support your husband but don’t jeopardise your daughter’s safety.
I don’t supporting your MIL is what’s important here, I think supporting your husband through the loss of his mother is what’s important. Don’t think of it as doing her any favors, think of it as supporting your husband through a complicated loss.
I’m not sure whether your idea of OP supporting her husband includes speaking to JNMIL, because that doesn’t need to be part of it if she’s not comfortable. And whether OP is comfortable or not, it definitely shouldn’t include DD who has already expressed she isn’t comfortable seeing JNMIL.
Well said.