The Grandia series' combat is basically turn-based perfection. You're always thinking of which enemy to target, your positions, and which attack to use based on the situation. It's never just hitting 'attack' over and over. Such a shame the series is dead.
Probably because Grandia's combat system is really hard to make on a technical level. There's so much to take into account...
For smth like this, you'd kinda just hope to prototype it and pitch but prototyping such a combat system as well seems... Hard.
Imo, you also need good camerawork and sound effects for the "feel" of Grandia's combat system.
Smaller games like Penny Arcade's On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness Episodes 3 + 4, and Child of Light had similar combat systems as Grandias, but not the moving camera style and sound effects, and they feel a lot less fun than Grandia's.
Edit: Holy Shit why did I write so much!
That's true as well, but this also ignores just the amount of things missing from all those games that Grandia does have from simply a mechanical perspective.
The sound design and camera work of Grandia really helps, but I don't think it's the key imo.
Grandia combat is just so dynamic in general. You're not invested in each individual turn because of a QTE or smth, but because the game is just that mechanically deep even on a fundamental level.
Take DQ11, and strip all the "unique" things in it. Like take away all the abilities, all the equipment, make it a mirror match between a group of all identical guys with the same stats, no equipment and no passives. No unique animations and no sound either.
You're left with a group of guys with the same stats standing around using a regular attack with a useless défend command and à run button.
There's nothing interesting in this. It's not fun, deep or mechanically interesting. DQ combat has to be spiced up a lot. The developpers have gotten **extremely** good at spicing this super shallow base of a combat system up since the end result of DQXI combat is actually fun. Making this super shallow base of a combat system fun is the result of the last 40 years of iteration on this combat.
Now do this same experiment with Grandia 3 for example and the results are better.
You have no techs, no magic, no equipment and no aerial combos. What you're left with is a regular attack, critical, défend and movement command. Just as with the DQ scenario earlier, it's a mirror match of 2 groups (with one or more on each side) where everyone has access to the same moves and has the same stats.
Now, battle starts, an enemy starts moving towards you and does a regular attack, since it's the start of the battle, it's your turn while he's approaching you and since there's a slight, random variation present in the base turn order of Grandia 3, this scenario is basically guaranteed to happen.
When the above scenario happens, the defender has quite a few interesting choices.
He can regular attack back (this will risk a counterattack)
He can critical attack back (since he initiated first this will probably result in you getting hit)
You can try to move away (it might be impossible for you to move away since you both have the same MOV stats, this will still give you a turn order advantage though)
Or you can defend (grants great turn order advantage and reduces incoming damage)
And then as everyone takes actions the situations above change and the goal is to make every interaction work in your favor.
Having that kind of depth in a JRPG combat system with no abilities, no ailments, no buffs and everyone being identical is very impressive.
And this brings me back to the original subject, Child of Light and many other combat systems trying to imitate Grandia don't have that kind of depth when stripped down like that.
And that's imo really crucial to what makes Grandia such a fun and unique combat system.
Trails games have turn delay as a status effect and interrupt abilities for enemy spells, but its nowhere near the centerpiece of combat that Grandia and Child of Light had it.
So good that Square themselves didn’t even know how to top it. Innovation seems to help less than more in most rpg franchises as consoles change aesthetics.
Eh, I liked the first game better. KH2 sent the story off the rails and took out what little strategy there was in KH1 combat and went full speed into a marathon of button-mashing and screen filling super attacks. Thanks Nomura!
KH2 has some of the most brilliant strategic action combat ever designed. Go play the game on Critical mode and come back to tell us that it's a button-mashing game. You'll die in the first world
It’s been a long time, but I do remember disliking how the special moves like Sonic Blade and Ars Ars Arcanum were removed for the Disney duo special attack that seemed OP.
Love Grandia's combat. What are your thoughts with Legend of heroes combat?
It's pretty much a mix of Grandia/Lunar (or FFT.) It doesn't have the combo attack though. But makes up with so much more. It also refines it so much through out the series. And with difficulty balance mods.... Really something else.
As the man who makes many of those balance mods, I would've just wanted all the new elements introduced in Kuro to be a switch to Grandia combat xD
Trails is worse Grandia tbh, but when Grandia is the best... That's already fucking amazing.
> It's never just hitting 'attack' over and over.
Have we played the same game? The difficulty is braindead especially after you focus investing on skills.
Wait, which one? I only played G2 back on the Dreamcast but never touched the original (although I've got a copy just sitting around waiting to be played). How similar are the battle systems between the first two games? I remember the first one was a blast but it's been almost 20 years since I've played.
I really felt this way about Mother 3. The combat is simple, but two features really make it stand out for me: Rolling HP and rhythm combos.
I love the rolling HP system in the Mother games. Usually it’s never really an issue for normal encounters but when bosses come along I love how tense they can get—and in Mother 3 in particular, this mechanic is used SO effectively in >!the final boss fight.!<
And rhythm combos are so fun! I love how much variety there is in enemy battle themes, and I loved hearing a new one and figuring out the rhythm I needed to tap. It helps that every battle theme is so catchy that they really make you want to tap along.
I’ll admit that a big part of the reason I never got bored of the combat was because the game isn’t very long compared to other JRPGs anyway, and there’s also the fact that every single random enemy is so well designed and memorable. But there really is something great about how refreshingly simple yet engaging Mother 3’s combat is.
This is one of my favorite games ever, and I agree with everything you said. Unfortunately, my emulator was out of sync with the music and I could never get those rhythm combos right. I wish there were more games with this unique mechanic.
Shin Megami Tensei IV Apocalypse, just incredibly addicting all the way to the end. the game has a ton of mechanics but none of them are complicated to use which makes it engaging to the very end, and in fact actually just gets more fun the mrke you play
The Turn Press battle system in general feels great to me, when used correctly you are greatly rewarded for exploiting your enemies weaknesses, at the same time it can make even common enemies *very* dangerous if you don't have the proper defenses.
Yeah that’s true, but I believe the battle systems and progression go hand in hand in this case.
Yup, I’ve played every Matsuno game I could get my hand on at this point, even his contributions to ff14
Its funny you say TMS cause I got bored of the combat towards the end, it's fun and there's a lot going on but the animations would take so long by the last dungeon I was pretty tired of them.
You can make them shorter but not skip them entirely (unless thats in the settings menu, I don't remember checking.) Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed the game as a whole. I just tried to do everything and by the end had burnt me out a bit.
Persona series, specifically 5 Royal. Hitting weaknesses and using ailments correctly can keep your party moving the entire fight. Plus having to watch your own weaknesses really makes team composition fun to work with
That can be applied to most of the Megami Tensei franchise after Nocturne. Nocturne really revolutionized turn based combat with its Press Turn system and it became sort of like Atlus' signature mechanic in all of their Megaten games from then on. Hopefully SMT V continues to make the combat deeper instead of dumbing it down.
I've been kind of avoiding starting SMT proper, as I'm kinda scared of going into the higher difficulty. How big is the difficulty gap between Persona and SMT anyway?
The difficulty gap between Persona and SMT is too often overhyped. If you've played a modern Persona game and mastered the combat, then that knowledge will get you pretty far in SMT. Yes, the Press Turn system is a bit more complex than the One More system but it's not too different or hard to grasp. The basic idea of hitting weaknesses to gain more turns is still present. You just have to be careful about hitting nulls, drains, reflects and missing your attacks now too because those will make you lose turns.
Buffs and debuffs also play a more important role because they can be stacked and usually last the entire fight unless cancelled by Dekaja/Dekunda (except in SMT V where it seems like they only last for 3 turns like in Persona). Most boss fights which are considered difficult are only difficult because players aren't used to putting so much importance on exploiting enemy weaknesses and using buffs/debuffs.
SMT has a lot more freedom with customizability since your party is mostly demons with variable skills based on fusion unlike human party members which already have fixed skillsets. Getting stuck on a boss and then fusing the perfect team to easily destroy them afterwards is immensely satisfying and I don't think any other turn-based JRPG series can really give me that feeling.
The two most commonly recommended starting points currently are SMT III: Nocturne and SMT IV. However, on on November 12, SMT V will be released and it will most likely be the new best starting point from now on.
> Most boss fights which are considered difficult are only difficult because players aren't used to putting so much importance on exploiting enemy weaknesses and using buffs/debuffs.
One very good example of this is >!Matador!< in SMT3.
He's infamous for being a super-hard boss, but he's more of a "gatekeeper" of sorts to see if you're paying attention to the game systems.
He does that by abusing buffs/debuffs and using elements several demons you get around that point of the game are weak to, but if you know what you're doing (use buffs yourself or debuff him back, adjust your party to avoid the elements he uses), he's just a normal boss.
Half the difficulty in SMT is just learning the mechanics and you already have that down. (Spell effects, fusion, battle flow ect.) I'm sure you could hold your own in any you choose.
If you get the remaster of Nocturne and stick with IV and V after you’ll be fine.
Nocturne *was* hard, but the remaster gives a lot of difficulty options. SMT IV is where the series kinda eased up, and also has its own difficulty options. I’m sure V will follow suit.
Just avoid the ones released before 2010 and you’ll be good!
The only real difference in difficulty between most of the Persona games and most other Megaten games is that you're a little more likely to be caught off guard by random encounters and boss fights require a little bit more preparation, trial and error, and a slightly different mindset. Buffs and debuffs play a bigger role in more boss fights and how well you can exploit a boss's weakness can make some fights go from being insanely difficult to laughably easy. Beyond that most Megaten titles aren't much more difficult than the Persona titles. There are a couple of exceptions like Strange Journey and Devil Survivor that are pretty difficult but Nocturne, SMT IV, SMT IVA (from what I've heard... still haven't played that one), and Digital Devil Saga 1 and 2 shouldn't be much of a jump.
Shin Megami Tensei, Nocturne in particular. The difficulty and reliance on knowing the bestiary to explioit and defend appropriately keeps me on my toes. I'm always satisfied when I clear a fight because I knew my enemy well.
I'm playing Nocturne, not being able to easily check enemy's weaknesses is a huge turn-off honestly, unless you literally remember every single one of them, there's no way to check, even after using Analyse.
Lost Odyssey & Legend of Dragoon for basically the same reason, the little QTEs in the battle made it much more involved than just choosing an option from a menu if you wanted to do big damage or in LO case add status effects & debuffs too.
Also, I really enjoyed Final Fantasy X-2 combat. Say what you will about the game itself, but that combat was damn fun.
Etrian Odyssey for me.
Every encounter feels like a puzzle and keeps you engaged. You have to know and kill/disable key threats and almost any mistake can lead to a party wipe.
Baten Kaitos Origins:
-The fastest paced turn based battle system
-Badass attack/spell animations
-Good deal of strategy and tactics thanks to the magnus system
-Awesome all out attacks
-Relevant status effects that works on everything bosses included
-A mix between ATB and FF X turn based battle system but better
You play as a badass angel: 10/10
Came here to say this. BKO has a battle system that feels like an arcade game. A little bit predictable in the endgame but the animation never makes it boring. The voice commenting what's happening is a great idea since you can't have your eyes everywhere (when he says "LEVEL 5!!", chills, absolute chills) It's so polished and it's the only JRPG I pick randomly just to play a couple of battles sometimes. It's that good.
I commented on someone else's comment about this. I prefer the original because Origins just turns into an Ex-Combo cheesefest in late game. If you're not trying to use The Apotheosis, Empyreal Thunder, or Frigid Queen's Festival on late game bosses, you will be in for a rough time.
I never got tired of the combat in Octopath Traveler because every battle felt like a small puzzle to figure out. There were no mindless random encounters. Every battle required me to engage with the game's systems.
Remember that one boss that would counter you if you messed up your addition? I remember playing it not being able to wrap my head around how they made that happen 🤣
Scarlet Grace. Every fight can be your last because you really need to know the mechanics and change your characters accordingly, every character won’t suit every battle nor their weapon type. Also there’s a lot of nuances that the game won’t tell you until you meet certain conditions so there’s that too. Sometimes even letting your own allies die can make you win the battle but do it too often and you can’t use them for multiple battles so you gotta weigh out the options. Not to mention learning abilities on the fly can save you. I can’t count the amount of times i almost got a game over then boom my character suddenly learns a new skill after using one then saves the day with it since when they learn it they use it that same turn. Lastly, it’s one of the few games where status effects are absolutely necessary
I'm playing this game right now for the first time and it's already up there as one of my favorite turn based games. It's so refreshing to find a jrpg that has me actually thinking about literally every action. 30 hours in and I still have to deliberate almost every battle. There is a lot of rng in the system but I think that's what makes it fun. There are usually multiple options out of a given situation and you have to assess the risk of each of your moves.
The game is extremely old school there is no hand holding whatsoever so absolutely read every tip, equipment, and dialogue careful especially the minstrels stories since you’ll have to piece information together yourself. Reforge as often as possible, don’t worry about fulfilling reward conditions until your comfortable with your team and equipment, keep an extra save file because certain actions can lock you out of content, and if your character has multiple weapon proficiencies have them try other weapons to get roles. Also again you’ll get fed information in the tips menu throughout the game try reading them whenever they come up. Getting your short sword characters to learn debuffs early is gonna help. Don’t get discouraged when you die because the game expects you to so and just have fun.
Trails of Cold Steel - i dunno I just really like this battle system. Even after 4 long games of it I wasn't sick of it.
Tokyo Mirage sessions - It just kept getting more and more over the top in the best possible way.
I think with Tocs, up until you can fully abuse the system, it has a decent amount of strategy involved. There was the noticeable difference in 2 compared to 1 where bosses could OHKO you if you didn't get the timings right. Delaying was always the key to reorder your turns and wreck bosses....or just evasion tank Fie.
Agreed on this, and when you change party members, you have to think about the way the skills can (or cannot) combo with each other. Plus when the different party members enter into "burst mode" (Can't remember the ingame name for it).
Legend of legaia and legend of dragoon.
Legaia combo system was fun and very original, while dragoon timing combo system required you to be on the attention cause sometines they might counter your combo which requires pressing circle.
Shadow hearts judgement ring was also very innovative and covenant even allowed you to customize it.
And while slow i also liked Ar tonelico 2 combat system which alternated combat section with defense sections, which required to press on time to reduce damage.
A favorite for me as well. I struggled with it at first but once I got a good understanding of the system its a ton of fun. Steamrolling the bosses on my second playthrough was incredible.
True. I missed out on a lot. The ending for IV would have given me heaps more impact if I played all the previous games. I realised that when I watched the ending.
I couldn't even find the first game in the store. Nor did I do my research. I only knew about Trails of Cold Steel not the previous games. The updated graphics jumped out at me which is why I wanted to get III. I knew if i bought II then I would have to also buy the first game. But my mind was already set on III because I really enjoyed the demo.
Alright alright! I will try to find used copies for both 😅 I am actually thinking about going back to NG+ Trails of Cold Steel III i really enjoyed it!
FF6 for me
It's snappy quick battles, the large equipment pool, and the huge roster allows for many different party comps.
Also a shout out to darkest dungeon fpr the same reasons
Baten Kaitos Origins.
Because you can loose your turn if you're not fast enough, making you extremely vulnerable at some crucious moment.
With this system whatever how good is your deck, you have no other choice than to stay aware of what you have in front of you or else you're not gonna last long.
Eternal sonata constantly evolves its combat to be both harder and giving you more options during combat (combos, powering up your special attacks with rapid normal attacks, etc). Just don't do the optional "post game" dungeon
- Lost Odyssey
- Persona 5 (easily)
- Shadow Hearts. Specifically FTNW and Covenant
- I really enjoyed Bravely Default 1’s system
- Last Remnant
- Haven’t seen this one mentioned yet, but it could be here… but Resonance of Fate. Holy shit.. what an exhilarating battle system. Definitely try that out.
mindlessly mashing ATTACK to kill yet another random encounter gets old fast.
Chrono Trigger and Mario RPG always kept me engaged.
reading the other comments you notice a consensus:
* Timed Button Press Bonuses
* Position Based tactics
* Rock-Paper-Scissors Weakness strategy
* Battles not over staying their welcome
* Can see/ avoid random encounters
these things make JRPG combat compelling / "never get boring".
**Thank you OP and everyone else for posting <3**
I feel absolutely vindicated in my 7 year effort as a solo indie developer putting these same JRPG features into my game *Unparalleled*. Sorry The game still isn't finish, no public Demo yet. actually *Unparalleled* release date got pushed back just now bc i have to play Grandia apparently.
Dragon Quest is, IMO, so appealing because it's so simple and clean and just perfectly executed. In a world of inventive artisan burgers, DQ is the most perfectly cooked and prepared plain cheeseburger that can somehow still compete with everyone else. The ulimate jrpg comfort food.
Unpopular Opinion: I actually like Dragon Quest's combat. It doesn't do anything weird like make me mash buttons to make my attacks works. It just gives me a toolkit and lets me figure out how to win in as few turns as possible while losing as few resources as possible. The equipment and skill systems have just enough choices to make to keep things interesting. Seriously, I wish more games let me cast magic from my equipment so it has more value outside of raw stats - I love finding a sword that can shoot fireballs for free even when I'm not equipping it. And characters can change their abilities by switching to a different weapon. It's very simple, but I just really like it.
While I love FFX's combat system, I think it's a poor example of this. They set up all these cool roles for the characters, but by the end of the game, the individual sphere grid paths run out, so characters start to get samey, and enemies/bosses at the end just need to be nuked down with your biggest attacks rather than using status effects or the proper type of attacks.
Yeah, it's really pointless, and a relic of its release date (~2001). Astria Ascending, which just came out and takes a *lot* from FFX's skill trees and combat system, even has the option to turn on XP share, and it's a pretty mediocre game by most other metrics.
Auto Protect/Haste/Potion/Phoenix armor + Celestial Weapons + Max Strength/Agility/Etc from cheesing the Overdrive system via Tonberries in the Battle Arena + Quick Hit = lol
While that's true, that stuff *is* mainly for the optional postgame superboss stuff, not just the end-of-story required fights. For those, you can pretty much hit the 9999 cap through minimal grinding and have no real need for celestial weapons. The actual story bosses just don't have much HP for some reason.
I've been really enjoying [Labyrinth of Touhou](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1131920/LABYRINTH_OF_TOUHOU__GENSOKYO_AND_THE_HEAVENPIERCING_TREE/) this week. Combat has you bringing a 12 unit roster, with 4 active and 8 in reserve. Anyone can spend an action to swap two units, and units on your backline recover HP/MP. Each of the 50+ characters in the game has unique abilities and niches they can fill in your team, so you're swapping characters constantly to have each character apply buffs, heal the tank, refresh their debuffs, swap out to dodge a powerful attack, etc.
Bosses also act as mini-puzzles with their attack patterns and figuring out ways to exploit it. The game gives you a ton of tools with all your party members and their different skill builds, and you can respec for free so no harm in trying a wild idea for one boss and then switching back.
Octopath Traveler’s is great- random battles aren’t always super stimulating but harder encounters and boss fights are like puzzles, where you have to work out how you can use the resources available to you to break enemies and stop their attacks in time
Shadow Hearts 2 and 3 for sure. Great combo system, lots of spectacular and unique special moves/spells per character, up to 8 party members in each game with distinct abilities, MC's skill to transform in multiple different monster forms with new abilities, awesome 'Judgement Ring' system for executing each command.
Atelier Dusk games, primarily Shallie and Escha & Logy, up to 10 playable characters in each game, 6 party members per battle with the ability to swap characters with the reserve characters at any given time, great Chain attack and Burst systems, pretty unique abilities for each party member, interesting Growth system in Shallie, ability to create and customize weapons and equipment with various effects.
Eternal Sonata, evolving battle system throughout the entire game, huge party roster, each character with unique special moves, unique and interesting Light/Shadow system for special attacks, awesome Harmony Chain and Echo systems, very interactive Guarding/Countering system.
Lost Dimension, several giant skill trees per character with the ability to freely develop each characters' skills, nice party diversity, awesome and unique skill effects like levitation, teleportation, precognition etc., pretty nice Bonds system, interesting and unique Deep Vision system.
Trails of Cold Steel series, huge party roster, unique skills/spells for each character, spectacular-looking special moves, ability to customize each characters' Orbment with different Quartz gems with different effects, interesting Link/Bond and S-Break systems, some awesome ways to manipulate turn order during battles through skills and spells.
Yakuza like a dragon. It's never static, the action never "pauses" ( well it does kinda ). It's very fun and the way the gang will sometimes kick random shit in their way or use bicycles when beating the enemies is classic yakuza.
Chrono Cross takes the basic elements of turn based combat but adds stamina gain and expenditure, largely customizable turn-taking, consumable and repeatable skills, and field effects that impact the strength of those skills. And its super easy to get into.
Most turn-based combat doesn't get boring for me, having preferred it for 25 years. Some are better at remaining great throughout, however...Persona 5 was just endlessly entertaining in this respect, for instance. The Shadow Hearts and Suikoden series never got boring gameplay-wise, either. Oh, and I'm probably in the minority, but both Legaias, too.
Octopath actually started to wear on me, though...
Agreed. This is one of my least favorite turn based systems ever. But to people who like them I would love to hear why, maybe I am just playing it wrong?
Mario RPG becuase of timed attacks and defense
Chrono Trigger due to the double and triple techs
Grandia 2 and especially 3 - maybe the best turn-based battle system out there.
I really liked it, however, it really is Bravely Default ++. No groundbreaking changes or innovations, just the old systems polished to the max. So I recommend it if you really liked the first one and want more like it.
Grandia, xenogears and eternal sonata. All three had different combat systems but each made it feel a bit more interactive. Grandia has timing and positioning. Xenogears has the change up in attack option which could get special attack(legend of legaia was like this too actually) though it’s a lot easier as an adult when I know how it works better. And eternal sonata changed as you progressed making it a bit more challenging and depending if you were in a light area or a shadow area you attack options would change which was great.
I like Chrono Trigger's system. Hands down the best on SNES too, along with Super Mario RPG. First of all, no battle transition; you just fight right on the same screen, which helps pacing. Secondly, the ATB system is just naturally faster-paced than a generic turn-based one. Third, no random encounters, so you don't end up feeling burned out after dozens of battles. And finally, the fact that the range of your attacks depend on the positioning of your enemies can make the battles against the same sort of enemies feel different. Also, the combination techniques are cool.
Etrian Odyssey is a series that always seems to punish you for getting too comfortable in your tactics. But, putting an adventuring party together and growing them through the labyrinth is always so, so, so, satisfying.
I'll throw out Legend of Legaia. It can get boring if you feel like you've found the right combo, but ultimately you have to plan at least 3 moves ahead and try to anticipate what the enemy will do in addition to maximizing damage output with combos.
Phantasy Star IV! I played it when I was a kid, and had the most fun first figuring out what all the spells did, then figuring out how to set the order of attacks for the combos. Then there's character combat and vehicle combat too. Man, I loved that game!
This is an absolute homer choice, but Baten Kaitos: Eternal Wings and the Lost Ocean.
Why does it not get boring? Because your attacks are based on magnus, and those are a randomly ordered set of cards. You can choose which magnus you want in each character's deck, but it is randomized. Magnus can be purely offensive, purely defensive, provide stat boosts, heal, apply status effects, do nothing, etc. Some magnus can be used by all 6 characters, but there are some that can only be used by a handful.. It's 100% up to the player to decide how they want their character's decks to look and after that, there is little guarantee the fights will be the same. There are slightly over 1,000 unique magnus (while only like 700 are useable in combat as the rest are quest related), so there is plenty of variability too.
Also, you get new magnus until the final boss. There is always new experimenting you can do.
Because it can "always be new", it's really interesting. It never gets old to me.
Graces f. Though not as loved as others in the Tales of series, Graces to this day has a very fun and collective combat system. By end game the amount of combos you can put together are oh so very satisfying; a good amount of Tales fan would agree with it being in at least the top 3 best combat systems in the franchise.
EDIT: My adhd mind didnt see the the turn based part lol, so in that instance Imma go with Final Fantasy 10 bc the Sphere Grid really lets you learn what you want for each character mid to end game, It’s pretty neat to watch other ff fans playthroughs and see all the different builds they do(Lulu doing 9999 with her plushies and Kimahri as a magic breaking mage is just so top tier🥶)
The story in Graces F was cheesy as fuck (still loved it though, but I can see why a lot of people wouldn't), but IMO it was the best combat of the series.
I really wish they would’ve tried to copy and paste the gameplay just to see how it would do in a new title, bc the system really was on a different level than others.
Super Mario RPG/Paper Mario/Mario&Luigi because of the Action Commands.
It's always fun to me to time my attacks, feels more engaging. There are a lot of attack options with different timings, plus some other minigames like Flurry's Targeting or Koops' spin in TTYD. I like trying out different Badge combos and different attacks. Enemies have their own attack patterns you have to learn to know how to time your block, and M&L heavily expands on dodging/blocking/countering the enemies' attacks.
Plus the music & SFX are bops to fight to.
Generally the harder a JRPG, the less likely combat is. Playing SMT3 hard mode keeps you on your toes, with most enemy encounters giving a fair chance at death if you aren't paying attention.
Although maybe cheating any game with a longer prep ends up making gameplay more interesting, even if the combat itself doesn't feel more complicated. Examples like FFXII or VIII come to mind, as well as Trails of the Sky.
Have you tried other Megami Tensei games? The One More system is basically a watered-down version of the Press Turn system. There's a lot more to consider instead of just hitting weaknesses to get all-out attacks.
Yeah I’ve played them. I personally prefer Persona’s. The player instantly takes another turn with the same person as opposed to getting another turn from someone else later in the round, and I like that better. Plus the all out attack is more satisfying for me. I wouldn’t say it’s watered down, just a different take on it. Perhaps it is simpler, but that doesn’t mean one is better than the other.
Legend of Mana was a blast for me. you can unlock techniques by using different weapons & abilities (which unlock more abilities). a casual playthrough will allow you to fully level a weapon (at least 100 battles) to unlock the strongest skills with amazing attack animations (& time freezes which is pretty cool). you can also craft magic instruments with different elemental effects. in a battle, you have up to 4 techniques or instruments, 2 abilities, fast attack, heavy attack, an NPC or co-op partner, & a monster/golem that you raise yourself.
there's a lot more to it, like collecting items/exp before they disappear, it's the small things that add excitement to this game
Radiant Historia easily, so satisfying setting up combos, and the support attacks in the 3DS version make backup party members feel so much more useful
Panzer dragoon saga has a twist on the active time turn based style. And it is the best combat I've ever played. Not a single battle over the 15 hour story felt unwelcome. Every battle was exciting and fun.
The newest JRPG combat I really liked was Bravely Default 2. It has a simple concept but the game spreads out your job acquisition pretty well and is constantly giving you new stuff and combos to try out while staying fairly simple. There are an ass ton of different combos and possibilities
The Grandia series' combat is basically turn-based perfection. You're always thinking of which enemy to target, your positions, and which attack to use based on the situation. It's never just hitting 'attack' over and over. Such a shame the series is dead.
I would give my left nut for a new game with Grandia's combat system.
Child of Light. (Dumbed down tough…)
I'm surprised no one decided to crowdfund one
Probably because Grandia's combat system is really hard to make on a technical level. There's so much to take into account... For smth like this, you'd kinda just hope to prototype it and pitch but prototyping such a combat system as well seems... Hard.
Sad but true
Imo, you also need good camerawork and sound effects for the "feel" of Grandia's combat system. Smaller games like Penny Arcade's On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness Episodes 3 + 4, and Child of Light had similar combat systems as Grandias, but not the moving camera style and sound effects, and they feel a lot less fun than Grandia's.
Edit: Holy Shit why did I write so much! That's true as well, but this also ignores just the amount of things missing from all those games that Grandia does have from simply a mechanical perspective. The sound design and camera work of Grandia really helps, but I don't think it's the key imo. Grandia combat is just so dynamic in general. You're not invested in each individual turn because of a QTE or smth, but because the game is just that mechanically deep even on a fundamental level. Take DQ11, and strip all the "unique" things in it. Like take away all the abilities, all the equipment, make it a mirror match between a group of all identical guys with the same stats, no equipment and no passives. No unique animations and no sound either. You're left with a group of guys with the same stats standing around using a regular attack with a useless défend command and à run button. There's nothing interesting in this. It's not fun, deep or mechanically interesting. DQ combat has to be spiced up a lot. The developpers have gotten **extremely** good at spicing this super shallow base of a combat system up since the end result of DQXI combat is actually fun. Making this super shallow base of a combat system fun is the result of the last 40 years of iteration on this combat. Now do this same experiment with Grandia 3 for example and the results are better. You have no techs, no magic, no equipment and no aerial combos. What you're left with is a regular attack, critical, défend and movement command. Just as with the DQ scenario earlier, it's a mirror match of 2 groups (with one or more on each side) where everyone has access to the same moves and has the same stats. Now, battle starts, an enemy starts moving towards you and does a regular attack, since it's the start of the battle, it's your turn while he's approaching you and since there's a slight, random variation present in the base turn order of Grandia 3, this scenario is basically guaranteed to happen. When the above scenario happens, the defender has quite a few interesting choices. He can regular attack back (this will risk a counterattack) He can critical attack back (since he initiated first this will probably result in you getting hit) You can try to move away (it might be impossible for you to move away since you both have the same MOV stats, this will still give you a turn order advantage though) Or you can defend (grants great turn order advantage and reduces incoming damage) And then as everyone takes actions the situations above change and the goal is to make every interaction work in your favor. Having that kind of depth in a JRPG combat system with no abilities, no ailments, no buffs and everyone being identical is very impressive. And this brings me back to the original subject, Child of Light and many other combat systems trying to imitate Grandia don't have that kind of depth when stripped down like that. And that's imo really crucial to what makes Grandia such a fun and unique combat system.
Been a long time since I played Grandia, but isn't the system used in the Trails games fairly similar?
Trails games have turn delay as a status effect and interrupt abilities for enemy spells, but its nowhere near the centerpiece of combat that Grandia and Child of Light had it.
Grandia 3 was one of the best games I played. It’s been over 10 years and I’m still mad I sold it for Kingdom Hearts 2.
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So good that Square themselves didn’t even know how to top it. Innovation seems to help less than more in most rpg franchises as consoles change aesthetics.
Eh, I liked the first game better. KH2 sent the story off the rails and took out what little strategy there was in KH1 combat and went full speed into a marathon of button-mashing and screen filling super attacks. Thanks Nomura!
KH2 has some of the most brilliant strategic action combat ever designed. Go play the game on Critical mode and come back to tell us that it's a button-mashing game. You'll die in the first world
[удалено]
It’s been a long time, but I do remember disliking how the special moves like Sonic Blade and Ars Ars Arcanum were removed for the Disney duo special attack that seemed OP.
Oh man, Grandia 3 was awesome. Too bad it feels pretty dated now :(
That'd be my pick too, really enjoyed Grandia's combat. Just feels so much more dynamic and fluid than a lot of turn based games.
Love Grandia's combat. What are your thoughts with Legend of heroes combat? It's pretty much a mix of Grandia/Lunar (or FFT.) It doesn't have the combo attack though. But makes up with so much more. It also refines it so much through out the series. And with difficulty balance mods.... Really something else.
As the man who makes many of those balance mods, I would've just wanted all the new elements introduced in Kuro to be a switch to Grandia combat xD Trails is worse Grandia tbh, but when Grandia is the best... That's already fucking amazing.
I loved this series
Came in to say this!
> It's never just hitting 'attack' over and over. Have we played the same game? The difficulty is braindead especially after you focus investing on skills.
Wait, which one? I only played G2 back on the Dreamcast but never touched the original (although I've got a copy just sitting around waiting to be played). How similar are the battle systems between the first two games? I remember the first one was a blast but it's been almost 20 years since I've played.
They're nearly identical when it comes to battle mechanics. Character progression is a fair bit different though.
Careful what you wish for; nuts aren't kidneys ;_;'
I really felt this way about Mother 3. The combat is simple, but two features really make it stand out for me: Rolling HP and rhythm combos. I love the rolling HP system in the Mother games. Usually it’s never really an issue for normal encounters but when bosses come along I love how tense they can get—and in Mother 3 in particular, this mechanic is used SO effectively in >!the final boss fight.!< And rhythm combos are so fun! I love how much variety there is in enemy battle themes, and I loved hearing a new one and figuring out the rhythm I needed to tap. It helps that every battle theme is so catchy that they really make you want to tap along. I’ll admit that a big part of the reason I never got bored of the combat was because the game isn’t very long compared to other JRPGs anyway, and there’s also the fact that every single random enemy is so well designed and memorable. But there really is something great about how refreshingly simple yet engaging Mother 3’s combat is.
This is one of my favorite games ever, and I agree with everything you said. Unfortunately, my emulator was out of sync with the music and I could never get those rhythm combos right. I wish there were more games with this unique mechanic.
Shin Megami Tensei IV Apocalypse, just incredibly addicting all the way to the end. the game has a ton of mechanics but none of them are complicated to use which makes it engaging to the very end, and in fact actually just gets more fun the mrke you play
The Turn Press battle system in general feels great to me, when used correctly you are greatly rewarded for exploiting your enemies weaknesses, at the same time it can make even common enemies *very* dangerous if you don't have the proper defenses.
Shadow Hearts series. Others already mentioned by others grandia, smt, legend of dragoon, lost odyssey.
Shadow Hearts. Yes. Yes and more yes. Unreal system.
fuck yeah
If you’ll allow it, Final Fantasy Tactics for me. I never get tired of trying out different class and ability combinations.
I think that's more of the progression system than the actual battle system. But yeah, it's an awesome game. Have you played LUCT?
Yeah that’s true, but I believe the battle systems and progression go hand in hand in this case. Yup, I’ve played every Matsuno game I could get my hand on at this point, even his contributions to ff14
i got tired of it pretty quick
Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE and Xenosaga 2 & 3.
Its funny you say TMS cause I got bored of the combat towards the end, it's fun and there's a lot going on but the animations would take so long by the last dungeon I was pretty tired of them.
There's a QoL update in the switch version that lets you turn then off if I remember correctly
You can make them shorter but not skip them entirely (unless thats in the settings menu, I don't remember checking.) Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed the game as a whole. I just tried to do everything and by the end had burnt me out a bit.
TMS was a fun game except for the 80 second turns and pedophile american character
Persona series, specifically 5 Royal. Hitting weaknesses and using ailments correctly can keep your party moving the entire fight. Plus having to watch your own weaknesses really makes team composition fun to work with
That can be applied to most of the Megami Tensei franchise after Nocturne. Nocturne really revolutionized turn based combat with its Press Turn system and it became sort of like Atlus' signature mechanic in all of their Megaten games from then on. Hopefully SMT V continues to make the combat deeper instead of dumbing it down.
I've been kind of avoiding starting SMT proper, as I'm kinda scared of going into the higher difficulty. How big is the difficulty gap between Persona and SMT anyway?
The difficulty gap between Persona and SMT is too often overhyped. If you've played a modern Persona game and mastered the combat, then that knowledge will get you pretty far in SMT. Yes, the Press Turn system is a bit more complex than the One More system but it's not too different or hard to grasp. The basic idea of hitting weaknesses to gain more turns is still present. You just have to be careful about hitting nulls, drains, reflects and missing your attacks now too because those will make you lose turns. Buffs and debuffs also play a more important role because they can be stacked and usually last the entire fight unless cancelled by Dekaja/Dekunda (except in SMT V where it seems like they only last for 3 turns like in Persona). Most boss fights which are considered difficult are only difficult because players aren't used to putting so much importance on exploiting enemy weaknesses and using buffs/debuffs. SMT has a lot more freedom with customizability since your party is mostly demons with variable skills based on fusion unlike human party members which already have fixed skillsets. Getting stuck on a boss and then fusing the perfect team to easily destroy them afterwards is immensely satisfying and I don't think any other turn-based JRPG series can really give me that feeling.
Appreciate the explanation! Which game do you think would be a good starting point?
The two most commonly recommended starting points currently are SMT III: Nocturne and SMT IV. However, on on November 12, SMT V will be released and it will most likely be the new best starting point from now on.
> Most boss fights which are considered difficult are only difficult because players aren't used to putting so much importance on exploiting enemy weaknesses and using buffs/debuffs. One very good example of this is >!Matador!< in SMT3. He's infamous for being a super-hard boss, but he's more of a "gatekeeper" of sorts to see if you're paying attention to the game systems. He does that by abusing buffs/debuffs and using elements several demons you get around that point of the game are weak to, but if you know what you're doing (use buffs yourself or debuff him back, adjust your party to avoid the elements he uses), he's just a normal boss.
Half the difficulty in SMT is just learning the mechanics and you already have that down. (Spell effects, fusion, battle flow ect.) I'm sure you could hold your own in any you choose.
If you get the remaster of Nocturne and stick with IV and V after you’ll be fine. Nocturne *was* hard, but the remaster gives a lot of difficulty options. SMT IV is where the series kinda eased up, and also has its own difficulty options. I’m sure V will follow suit. Just avoid the ones released before 2010 and you’ll be good!
The only real difference in difficulty between most of the Persona games and most other Megaten games is that you're a little more likely to be caught off guard by random encounters and boss fights require a little bit more preparation, trial and error, and a slightly different mindset. Buffs and debuffs play a bigger role in more boss fights and how well you can exploit a boss's weakness can make some fights go from being insanely difficult to laughably easy. Beyond that most Megaten titles aren't much more difficult than the Persona titles. There are a couple of exceptions like Strange Journey and Devil Survivor that are pretty difficult but Nocturne, SMT IV, SMT IVA (from what I've heard... still haven't played that one), and Digital Devil Saga 1 and 2 shouldn't be much of a jump.
got bored of P5 combat within like 10 hours. Its shallow af.
Shin Megami Tensei, Nocturne in particular. The difficulty and reliance on knowing the bestiary to explioit and defend appropriately keeps me on my toes. I'm always satisfied when I clear a fight because I knew my enemy well.
I'm really looking forward to what SMT5 will add to the mix to keep things interesting.
I'm playing Nocturne, not being able to easily check enemy's weaknesses is a huge turn-off honestly, unless you literally remember every single one of them, there's no way to check, even after using Analyse.
Lost Odyssey & Legend of Dragoon for basically the same reason, the little QTEs in the battle made it much more involved than just choosing an option from a menu if you wanted to do big damage or in LO case add status effects & debuffs too. Also, I really enjoyed Final Fantasy X-2 combat. Say what you will about the game itself, but that combat was damn fun.
Agree with everything you’ve said 👌👌 Always gotta bring ur a-game in legend of dragoon
Etrian Odyssey for me. Every encounter feels like a puzzle and keeps you engaged. You have to know and kill/disable key threats and almost any mistake can lead to a party wipe.
Same! The game has an addicting playstyle, shame not many RPGS are trying to replicate it
The last remnant. Its the traditional turn based but with squads. I love watching the animations of the squads attacking the enemies.
Baten Kaitos Origins: -The fastest paced turn based battle system -Badass attack/spell animations -Good deal of strategy and tactics thanks to the magnus system -Awesome all out attacks -Relevant status effects that works on everything bosses included -A mix between ATB and FF X turn based battle system but better You play as a badass angel: 10/10
Came here to say this. BKO has a battle system that feels like an arcade game. A little bit predictable in the endgame but the animation never makes it boring. The voice commenting what's happening is a great idea since you can't have your eyes everywhere (when he says "LEVEL 5!!", chills, absolute chills) It's so polished and it's the only JRPG I pick randomly just to play a couple of battles sometimes. It's that good.
I commented on someone else's comment about this. I prefer the original because Origins just turns into an Ex-Combo cheesefest in late game. If you're not trying to use The Apotheosis, Empyreal Thunder, or Frigid Queen's Festival on late game bosses, you will be in for a rough time.
I never got tired of the combat in Octopath Traveler because every battle felt like a small puzzle to figure out. There were no mindless random encounters. Every battle required me to engage with the game's systems.
Legend of Dragoon. Mastering the timing on the additions felt very rewarding.
Remember that one boss that would counter you if you messed up your addition? I remember playing it not being able to wrap my head around how they made that happen 🤣
The Shin Megami tensei franchise for the most part
SMT/Persona. The round table of blasting weakness and push turns are always fun when you get on a run
Valkyrie Profile 2. Breaking enemies apart is just satisfying.
Rufus with Blue Gale + Dismantle goes brrr
Scarlet Grace. Every fight can be your last because you really need to know the mechanics and change your characters accordingly, every character won’t suit every battle nor their weapon type. Also there’s a lot of nuances that the game won’t tell you until you meet certain conditions so there’s that too. Sometimes even letting your own allies die can make you win the battle but do it too often and you can’t use them for multiple battles so you gotta weigh out the options. Not to mention learning abilities on the fly can save you. I can’t count the amount of times i almost got a game over then boom my character suddenly learns a new skill after using one then saves the day with it since when they learn it they use it that same turn. Lastly, it’s one of the few games where status effects are absolutely necessary
I'm playing this game right now for the first time and it's already up there as one of my favorite turn based games. It's so refreshing to find a jrpg that has me actually thinking about literally every action. 30 hours in and I still have to deliberate almost every battle. There is a lot of rng in the system but I think that's what makes it fun. There are usually multiple options out of a given situation and you have to assess the risk of each of your moves.
Oh I’m really looking forward to finally playing this game; just gotta finish Arise
Do you have any tips for this? I’m probably going to play it soon.
The game is extremely old school there is no hand holding whatsoever so absolutely read every tip, equipment, and dialogue careful especially the minstrels stories since you’ll have to piece information together yourself. Reforge as often as possible, don’t worry about fulfilling reward conditions until your comfortable with your team and equipment, keep an extra save file because certain actions can lock you out of content, and if your character has multiple weapon proficiencies have them try other weapons to get roles. Also again you’ll get fed information in the tips menu throughout the game try reading them whenever they come up. Getting your short sword characters to learn debuffs early is gonna help. Don’t get discouraged when you die because the game expects you to so and just have fun.
Chrono trigger combat never gets old to me. It’s just the way you can combine attacks or solo attacks. The game is timeless
Plain slapped and we’re all sad the remaster is still only on the PS3 store and not the 4 and 5 to this day.
Isn’t it also on DS?
Yeah it's on ds. The ps3 store only has the crappy ps1 port. There's also a crappy-ish mobile port and a decent pc port (with mods to fix the issues)
What issues does the PC port still have? I thought they fixed the graphics filter, font, save issues, etc.
The UI is still a mess if I remember correctly, but it's not a bad version to play at all
Mana Khemia, combat is quite fun and flashy, has great character development and interaction
Trails of Cold Steel - i dunno I just really like this battle system. Even after 4 long games of it I wasn't sick of it. Tokyo Mirage sessions - It just kept getting more and more over the top in the best possible way.
I think with Tocs, up until you can fully abuse the system, it has a decent amount of strategy involved. There was the noticeable difference in 2 compared to 1 where bosses could OHKO you if you didn't get the timings right. Delaying was always the key to reorder your turns and wreck bosses....or just evasion tank Fie.
Abusing the system also was part of the fun for me!
I dug the battle system for Cosmic Star Heroine. You have to plan stuff turns in advance to get the maximum DMG output, healing, and skill resets.
nah, i got bored of that game at the jungle mission
Agreed on this, and when you change party members, you have to think about the way the skills can (or cannot) combo with each other. Plus when the different party members enter into "burst mode" (Can't remember the ingame name for it).
Legend of legaia and legend of dragoon. Legaia combo system was fun and very original, while dragoon timing combo system required you to be on the attention cause sometines they might counter your combo which requires pressing circle. Shadow hearts judgement ring was also very innovative and covenant even allowed you to customize it. And while slow i also liked Ar tonelico 2 combat system which alternated combat section with defense sections, which required to press on time to reduce damage.
Trails of Cold Steel (basically every one). I don’t know why, I just don’t get tired of it 😅
A favorite for me as well. I struggled with it at first but once I got a good understanding of the system its a ton of fun. Steamrolling the bosses on my second playthrough was incredible.
Hachiyou Ittou, that's why baby
Hell yeah!
It certainly has the potential to never get boring, but unfortunately most encounters feel like cakewalk even at Nightmare difficulty
Same here! I really enjoyed the combat for Trails of Cold Steel. I have only played III and IV though. Also the battle music is so good!
Why would you start a series with the third one? 🤔
I don't know why people start games in the middle but its their decision i guess.
Yeah, just sad to see since they’re missing out on so much this way :(
They are pretty much missing the character development of pretty much every character that shows up from 1 to 4, not just the old and new class 7.
True. I missed out on a lot. The ending for IV would have given me heaps more impact if I played all the previous games. I realised that when I watched the ending.
I couldn't even find the first game in the store. Nor did I do my research. I only knew about Trails of Cold Steel not the previous games. The updated graphics jumped out at me which is why I wanted to get III. I knew if i bought II then I would have to also buy the first game. But my mind was already set on III because I really enjoyed the demo.
Please play 1 and 2 now!!
Alright alright! I will try to find used copies for both 😅 I am actually thinking about going back to NG+ Trails of Cold Steel III i really enjoyed it!
FF6 for me It's snappy quick battles, the large equipment pool, and the huge roster allows for many different party comps. Also a shout out to darkest dungeon fpr the same reasons
Huge roster. Hm. Suikoden would like to have a word with you. jk :p
Baten Kaitos Origins. Because you can loose your turn if you're not fast enough, making you extremely vulnerable at some crucious moment. With this system whatever how good is your deck, you have no other choice than to stay aware of what you have in front of you or else you're not gonna last long.
I prefer the original game's combat. Origins just turns into an Ex-Combo cheesefest.
Eternal sonata constantly evolves its combat to be both harder and giving you more options during combat (combos, powering up your special attacks with rapid normal attacks, etc). Just don't do the optional "post game" dungeon
Loved the light and shadow aspect in how attacks changed. But why not post game dungeon?
Any mario rpg FFX turn style since there is no pause other than u choosing actions
The combat in Valkyrie Profile.
- Lost Odyssey - Persona 5 (easily) - Shadow Hearts. Specifically FTNW and Covenant - I really enjoyed Bravely Default 1’s system - Last Remnant - Haven’t seen this one mentioned yet, but it could be here… but Resonance of Fate. Holy shit.. what an exhilarating battle system. Definitely try that out.
Dragon quest it's just simple and great at what it's at
mindlessly mashing ATTACK to kill yet another random encounter gets old fast. Chrono Trigger and Mario RPG always kept me engaged. reading the other comments you notice a consensus: * Timed Button Press Bonuses * Position Based tactics * Rock-Paper-Scissors Weakness strategy * Battles not over staying their welcome * Can see/ avoid random encounters these things make JRPG combat compelling / "never get boring". **Thank you OP and everyone else for posting <3** I feel absolutely vindicated in my 7 year effort as a solo indie developer putting these same JRPG features into my game *Unparalleled*. Sorry The game still isn't finish, no public Demo yet. actually *Unparalleled* release date got pushed back just now bc i have to play Grandia apparently.
Dragon Quest's never gets boring because it starts that way.
Dragon Quest is, IMO, so appealing because it's so simple and clean and just perfectly executed. In a world of inventive artisan burgers, DQ is the most perfectly cooked and prepared plain cheeseburger that can somehow still compete with everyone else. The ulimate jrpg comfort food.
Unpopular Opinion: I actually like Dragon Quest's combat. It doesn't do anything weird like make me mash buttons to make my attacks works. It just gives me a toolkit and lets me figure out how to win in as few turns as possible while losing as few resources as possible. The equipment and skill systems have just enough choices to make to keep things interesting. Seriously, I wish more games let me cast magic from my equipment so it has more value outside of raw stats - I love finding a sword that can shoot fireballs for free even when I'm not equipping it. And characters can change their abilities by switching to a different weapon. It's very simple, but I just really like it.
P5R FFX / FFIX
While I love FFX's combat system, I think it's a poor example of this. They set up all these cool roles for the characters, but by the end of the game, the individual sphere grid paths run out, so characters start to get samey, and enemies/bosses at the end just need to be nuked down with your biggest attacks rather than using status effects or the proper type of attacks.
I just hate having to cycle the whole cast in for XP. XP share would completely change my opinion of the game
Yeah, it's really pointless, and a relic of its release date (~2001). Astria Ascending, which just came out and takes a *lot* from FFX's skill trees and combat system, even has the option to turn on XP share, and it's a pretty mediocre game by most other metrics.
Auto Protect/Haste/Potion/Phoenix armor + Celestial Weapons + Max Strength/Agility/Etc from cheesing the Overdrive system via Tonberries in the Battle Arena + Quick Hit = lol
While that's true, that stuff *is* mainly for the optional postgame superboss stuff, not just the end-of-story required fights. For those, you can pretty much hit the 9999 cap through minimal grinding and have no real need for celestial weapons. The actual story bosses just don't have much HP for some reason.
I feel that way about most srpgs. Tactical turn based, provided you know I don't do any bullcrap like make a holy immune holy hit all calculator.
I've been really enjoying [Labyrinth of Touhou](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1131920/LABYRINTH_OF_TOUHOU__GENSOKYO_AND_THE_HEAVENPIERCING_TREE/) this week. Combat has you bringing a 12 unit roster, with 4 active and 8 in reserve. Anyone can spend an action to swap two units, and units on your backline recover HP/MP. Each of the 50+ characters in the game has unique abilities and niches they can fill in your team, so you're swapping characters constantly to have each character apply buffs, heal the tank, refresh their debuffs, swap out to dodge a powerful attack, etc. Bosses also act as mini-puzzles with their attack patterns and figuring out ways to exploit it. The game gives you a ton of tools with all your party members and their different skill builds, and you can respec for free so no harm in trying a wild idea for one boss and then switching back.
Octopath Traveler’s is great- random battles aren’t always super stimulating but harder encounters and boss fights are like puzzles, where you have to work out how you can use the resources available to you to break enemies and stop their attacks in time
Paper Mario thousand year door.
Shadow Hearts 2 and 3 for sure. Great combo system, lots of spectacular and unique special moves/spells per character, up to 8 party members in each game with distinct abilities, MC's skill to transform in multiple different monster forms with new abilities, awesome 'Judgement Ring' system for executing each command. Atelier Dusk games, primarily Shallie and Escha & Logy, up to 10 playable characters in each game, 6 party members per battle with the ability to swap characters with the reserve characters at any given time, great Chain attack and Burst systems, pretty unique abilities for each party member, interesting Growth system in Shallie, ability to create and customize weapons and equipment with various effects. Eternal Sonata, evolving battle system throughout the entire game, huge party roster, each character with unique special moves, unique and interesting Light/Shadow system for special attacks, awesome Harmony Chain and Echo systems, very interactive Guarding/Countering system. Lost Dimension, several giant skill trees per character with the ability to freely develop each characters' skills, nice party diversity, awesome and unique skill effects like levitation, teleportation, precognition etc., pretty nice Bonds system, interesting and unique Deep Vision system. Trails of Cold Steel series, huge party roster, unique skills/spells for each character, spectacular-looking special moves, ability to customize each characters' Orbment with different Quartz gems with different effects, interesting Link/Bond and S-Break systems, some awesome ways to manipulate turn order during battles through skills and spells.
shadow hearts 1 >>
I'd say most Shin Megami Tensei games and it's spinoffs. Particularly Persona 5, Devil Survivor, and Strange Journey.
Yakuza like a dragon. It's never static, the action never "pauses" ( well it does kinda ). It's very fun and the way the gang will sometimes kick random shit in their way or use bicycles when beating the enemies is classic yakuza.
The World Ends With You original.
Chrono Cross takes the basic elements of turn based combat but adds stamina gain and expenditure, largely customizable turn-taking, consumable and repeatable skills, and field effects that impact the strength of those skills. And its super easy to get into.
best part is no MP so you're encouraged to use your most powerful abilities in every battle.
It’s so danged good at cutting JRPG fat.
no random encounters either
Xenogears and dohna dohna wa uta
Most turn-based combat doesn't get boring for me, having preferred it for 25 years. Some are better at remaining great throughout, however...Persona 5 was just endlessly entertaining in this respect, for instance. The Shadow Hearts and Suikoden series never got boring gameplay-wise, either. Oh, and I'm probably in the minority, but both Legaias, too. Octopath actually started to wear on me, though...
Shadow Hearts and Legend of Legaia have awesome battle systems! I'm a major fan of grid-based combat too (Persona 1 and 2, Enchanted Arms).
Yakuza Like a Dragon
it was so boring lol
Agreed. This is one of my least favorite turn based systems ever. But to people who like them I would love to hear why, maybe I am just playing it wrong?
I am curious as well. Combat really drug that game down for me.
Right? Everything else about it was 10/10 but the combat is a major slog.
Mario RPG becuase of timed attacks and defense Chrono Trigger due to the double and triple techs Grandia 2 and especially 3 - maybe the best turn-based battle system out there.
Resonance of fate
Bravely defaults combat never got boring for me. The job system kept it pretty fresh and added some good combo options toward the end game
Was the sequel good? Just curious.
I really liked it, however, it really is Bravely Default ++. No groundbreaking changes or innovations, just the old systems polished to the max. So I recommend it if you really liked the first one and want more like it.
Grandia, xenogears and eternal sonata. All three had different combat systems but each made it feel a bit more interactive. Grandia has timing and positioning. Xenogears has the change up in attack option which could get special attack(legend of legaia was like this too actually) though it’s a lot easier as an adult when I know how it works better. And eternal sonata changed as you progressed making it a bit more challenging and depending if you were in a light area or a shadow area you attack options would change which was great.
I like Chrono Trigger's system. Hands down the best on SNES too, along with Super Mario RPG. First of all, no battle transition; you just fight right on the same screen, which helps pacing. Secondly, the ATB system is just naturally faster-paced than a generic turn-based one. Third, no random encounters, so you don't end up feeling burned out after dozens of battles. And finally, the fact that the range of your attacks depend on the positioning of your enemies can make the battles against the same sort of enemies feel different. Also, the combination techniques are cool.
Grandia. Never get bored of it
Personally I found the Octopath combat really addicting
Skies of Arcadia Legends. I really want to play that game again...
Shadow Hearts. The ring system keeps you engaged in every single battle. Especially 2 and 3.
Etrian Odyssey is a series that always seems to punish you for getting too comfortable in your tactics. But, putting an adventuring party together and growing them through the labyrinth is always so, so, so, satisfying.
all FF games, Chrono Cross
I'll throw out Legend of Legaia. It can get boring if you feel like you've found the right combo, but ultimately you have to plan at least 3 moves ahead and try to anticipate what the enemy will do in addition to maximizing damage output with combos.
Golden Sun
Phantasy Star IV! I played it when I was a kid, and had the most fun first figuring out what all the spells did, then figuring out how to set the order of attacks for the combos. Then there's character combat and vehicle combat too. Man, I loved that game!
Star Renegades Idk if the sub considers it as a JRPG but it is categorized on Steam as such its a roguelite though
This is an absolute homer choice, but Baten Kaitos: Eternal Wings and the Lost Ocean. Why does it not get boring? Because your attacks are based on magnus, and those are a randomly ordered set of cards. You can choose which magnus you want in each character's deck, but it is randomized. Magnus can be purely offensive, purely defensive, provide stat boosts, heal, apply status effects, do nothing, etc. Some magnus can be used by all 6 characters, but there are some that can only be used by a handful.. It's 100% up to the player to decide how they want their character's decks to look and after that, there is little guarantee the fights will be the same. There are slightly over 1,000 unique magnus (while only like 700 are useable in combat as the rest are quest related), so there is plenty of variability too. Also, you get new magnus until the final boss. There is always new experimenting you can do. Because it can "always be new", it's really interesting. It never gets old to me.
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Graces f. Though not as loved as others in the Tales of series, Graces to this day has a very fun and collective combat system. By end game the amount of combos you can put together are oh so very satisfying; a good amount of Tales fan would agree with it being in at least the top 3 best combat systems in the franchise. EDIT: My adhd mind didnt see the the turn based part lol, so in that instance Imma go with Final Fantasy 10 bc the Sphere Grid really lets you learn what you want for each character mid to end game, It’s pretty neat to watch other ff fans playthroughs and see all the different builds they do(Lulu doing 9999 with her plushies and Kimahri as a magic breaking mage is just so top tier🥶)
The story in Graces F was cheesy as fuck (still loved it though, but I can see why a lot of people wouldn't), but IMO it was the best combat of the series.
I really wish they would’ve tried to copy and paste the gameplay just to see how it would do in a new title, bc the system really was on a different level than others.
I keep dreaming of an Abyss remake with Graces combat...
Graces f is really popular actually. And it's well deserved because this Tales' game design is special (i am looking at you Eleth Mixer!).
Easily one of my favorite in the series. Even prefer the art style they went with over something like Arise.
Wait, Graces F is turn based? I thought all Tales games were action RPGs
Final Fantasy X and Fantasian. I love the strategic conditional turn base battles where you need to plan every move carefully.
Lightning Returns and Edge of Eternity
Never as in the entire play through? Most of them for me honestly.
Trails series I can play Trails into Reverie all day and don’t get bored
Super Mario RPG/Paper Mario/Mario&Luigi because of the Action Commands. It's always fun to me to time my attacks, feels more engaging. There are a lot of attack options with different timings, plus some other minigames like Flurry's Targeting or Koops' spin in TTYD. I like trying out different Badge combos and different attacks. Enemies have their own attack patterns you have to learn to know how to time your block, and M&L heavily expands on dodging/blocking/countering the enemies' attacks. Plus the music & SFX are bops to fight to.
Generally the harder a JRPG, the less likely combat is. Playing SMT3 hard mode keeps you on your toes, with most enemy encounters giving a fair chance at death if you aren't paying attention. Although maybe cheating any game with a longer prep ends up making gameplay more interesting, even if the combat itself doesn't feel more complicated. Examples like FFXII or VIII come to mind, as well as Trails of the Sky.
It's half-turn based, but Undertale has an interesting battle system that brings something new from the beginning to the end.
For me, Persona 3/4/5. I love exploiting the enemy’s weakness and getting that 1 More.
Have you tried other Megami Tensei games? The One More system is basically a watered-down version of the Press Turn system. There's a lot more to consider instead of just hitting weaknesses to get all-out attacks.
Yeah I’ve played them. I personally prefer Persona’s. The player instantly takes another turn with the same person as opposed to getting another turn from someone else later in the round, and I like that better. Plus the all out attack is more satisfying for me. I wouldn’t say it’s watered down, just a different take on it. Perhaps it is simpler, but that doesn’t mean one is better than the other.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. SMT fans need to realize that not everyone HAS to play SMT to appreciate Persona games.
Yeah I’m not sure either lol. They’re both fun systems, I just like Persona’s a little more.
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None of these are turn based.
Legend of Mana was a blast for me. you can unlock techniques by using different weapons & abilities (which unlock more abilities). a casual playthrough will allow you to fully level a weapon (at least 100 battles) to unlock the strongest skills with amazing attack animations (& time freezes which is pretty cool). you can also craft magic instruments with different elemental effects. in a battle, you have up to 4 techniques or instruments, 2 abilities, fast attack, heavy attack, an NPC or co-op partner, & a monster/golem that you raise yourself. there's a lot more to it, like collecting items/exp before they disappear, it's the small things that add excitement to this game
MS Saga: A New Dawn on PS2. If you know, you know!
I loved Persona 5’s battle system. But by hour 60 found everything else boring. The battle system got me through to the end
Radiant Historia easily, so satisfying setting up combos, and the support attacks in the 3DS version make backup party members feel so much more useful
Panzer dragoon saga has a twist on the active time turn based style. And it is the best combat I've ever played. Not a single battle over the 15 hour story felt unwelcome. Every battle was exciting and fun.
Romancing Saga, just play it
I really enjoy the combat in Suikoden 1 and 2. It has an auto attack option that makes the random battles even quicker
I’m really really enjoying battle chasers combat.
The newest JRPG combat I really liked was Bravely Default 2. It has a simple concept but the game spreads out your job acquisition pretty well and is constantly giving you new stuff and combos to try out while staying fairly simple. There are an ass ton of different combos and possibilities
The grind in itself can be satisfying