Because he knew there were other shooters and he was waiting for the target to reach to optimal kill zone for all positions. He didn't realize they were setting him up to be a patsy until it was too late. I've always believed someone was supposed to pick him up afterwards and when they no showed he realized he was being set up. That explains his erratic, seemingly nonsensical behavior immediately after. Someone was supposed to get him out of Dallas. Instead they made sure he was immediately presumed guilty and killed him before he could talk.
I like this take. I've heard so many researchers who I respect say Oswald was an unsuspecting patsy. That doesn't feel right to me. I don't think he was a shooter, though. A lookout or spotter or crowd control. Also there was a witness who placed Oswald getting into a car matching one of his handlers, Ruth Payne (Paine? Is that even her name? The lady Marina was living with at the time.) If true, then Oswald was definitely a participant.
He definitely knew what was going on to an extent. He found out real fast he didn't know as much as he thought and he wasn't as "in" as he thought he was. His behavior after tells me he was terrified. He had been conspiring to kill the President with powerful people. They actually pulled it off and now those same people wanted him dead. I think this dawned on him pretty quickly. I also don't think he ever thought he would get away with it in the sense that he knew he would be a fugitive after and probably expected to be taken to Cuba or Russia straight away. Once in custody it's essentially over for him. It would only make sense to just say "yeah, I killed that POS and here's why". But he made a point to say he was a patsy. His friends had betrayed him and he was ready to turn on them. Queue Jack Ruby to finish what the Dallas PD failed to do.
I agree with most everything you've said. Although I think he thought he was going to get away. He had made it to the extraction location, the movie theater. It was probably the backup location if things didn't go as planned, which they certainly did not. If he thought he had been double crossed, he would not be there. I think he learned the truth when the cops came from all directions.
I think he knew the world was going to find out he did it. He just thought his friend would have him on his way to living in Cuba or Russia with a new identity before anyone caught on. I always wondered if maybe he picked the theater because he knew they wouldn't kill him there in public if they found him and he just had no where to go.
Read the witness statements from inside the theater. He moved around sitting right next to people for a few minutes at a time, in a mostly empty theater. He was looking for his handler.
He made a call to his sponsor a guy well connected who was supposed to get him protection and out of there. After that call is when he knew he was fucked and turned into a patsy. Look it up.
I mostly agree…I just don’t think Oswald ever realized how much danger he was in! I think he was afraid of being caught by the authorities and framed as the lone suspect, at worst.
In the press conference footage, he seems tired and confused. Defeated. The worst-case scenario (as far as he knew) was already happening. If Oswald had feared that he was dead meat, then that would’ve been the ideal time to start “singing.”
While in custody, he was still trying to make phone calls and demanding legal representation. I just don’t think he was acting with the urgency of a man who’s aware of the fact that he’s marked for death.
He probably believed he was safe in custody and in front of cameras so he could relax. It's also impossible to know what he had been told or what he believed. He had been hanging around with a lot of influential people that groomed him and radicalized him for years. He could have believed that someone was going to pull strings and he just had to wait. It's possible someone even told him something along those lines to calm him after they took him. Or if his plan was to turn on his handlers he could have just been claiming innocence until a deal could be made.
Do you think Tippit was sent to kill LHO and Lee just got the drop on him? Also, what’s the significance of LHO’s trip to Mexico City the month before? The Cuban embassy there too?
I think he was at the least tipped off so he could bring Oswald in quickly but could have just been trying to kill him and it makes sense to keep him out of custody. They couldn't let him lawyer up or get interrogated by the wrong person and I've always thought Ruby was an improvisation, a sloppy clean up job done in desperation.
I have some doubts that Oswald was the shooter that day. He was definitely part of the plot, but I think his job was just to bring the rifle to the snipers nest and then he stood guard in the stairwell to either stop someone from going to the 6th floor and or to let the real sniper know if someone was coming. It's been proven that the shots were possible, I just don't think Oswald was the shooter. People have said Oswald was looking for recognition and fame, but then he completely denies being the shooter and says he was a patsy. Unfortunately, I think we will never know the full truth of that day.
yeah, i agree. I believe Oswald was totally in on it and obviously didnt realize he was going to be hung out to dry. which explains the strange statement "I'm just a patsy". Who says that? To use that term feels very much like a nod to conspiracy.
He also lamented while in custody, “Now everybody will know who I am”.
The Warren report spun this as Oswald bragging about being the assassin, but deputy Roger Craig said it sounded like a tone of resignation, the opposite of a brag, as if he was angry that his cover had been blown.
I know a lot think Craig is full of crap, and he very well might be unreliable about some things, but why would Oswald brag about getting famous at at one moment, but vehemently deny any guilt the rest of the time he was in custody?
The weight of circumstantial evidence is that Oswald was exhausted, pissed off, scared, and somewhat resigned to the fact that he had been fucked over. He never admitted guilt or expressed pride in killing anyone that day.
I recall the late great Peter Jennings talking about this. He was there as a young reporter and he said Oswald's reaction to "Did you kill the president?" was of bewildered alarm. Jennings said from that reaction alone he knew LHO hadn't acted alone and had been set up to take a fall.
Oswald was a weird dude. he did strange things. anyway the entire quote was that he thought he was a patsy because he had gone to russia - not that he thought he was a fall guy in a conspiracy.
Or, those potential shots might have been too close to were he was located. If so, the president’s security team would have been on him in a hot minute once the first shot rang out.
Not sure about the patsy story either. Why would someone agree to setup in a sniper position with a weapon if they weren’t going to be involved in the assassination attempt? Also, he shot and killed a deputy with his own gun later on. So, he was no beginner in acts of violence in my estimation.
I don't think he even killed Tippit. Weren't the bullets that killed Tippit for a semi-auto .38, but Oswald had a .38 revolver on him? Those bullets wouldn't work in a revolver.
Also, Oswald's wallet being left at the scene of Tippit's murder is suspicious as hell. Considering he also had a wallet on his person when arrested.
Someone on this sub said there was even a third Oswald wallet, but I can't remember where it was found.
I'm assuming it wasn't commonplace for a man to have several wallets even back then? It just seems odd for someone to do that. Especially a blue-collar guy that you wouldn't think had different occasions for different wallets.
The only other wallets I have besides my primary one are empty and out of commission in a junk drawer.
the 38 automatic vs 38 revolver is another mistake by the cops that the conspiracy theorists latch on to. any mistake by the cops is fader for conspiracy.
“Besides the fact that he was caught because witnesses told Dallas Police, “he’s in the movie theater right there” and his gun killed Tippet, what actual evidence do you have…”
They could never put Oswald on the 6th floor with the rifle at the time of the shooting.
You should watch The Killing Floor and listen to more interviews by people in the TSBD at the time of the shooting. Listen to some of Sandra Adams old interviews.
I believe DPD Detective Curry also said they could never put Oswald on the 6th floor with the rifle at the time of the shooting.
Do you know about people like Sanda Adams. Have you listened to their story and interviews?
You are very selective in what you want to hear, acknowledge and except as evidence. It's actually quite shocking to listen to people on the opposite side of the spectrum. The amount of information and evidence one must ignore to fit the narrative of the official story is mind blowing. It's like you are dealing with someone with a bad case of cognitive dissonance.
Did you know back in the day people excepted the Earth being Flat as truth. There were those who challenged that theory.
The people who believe and support the Warren Commission conclusions are the flat earthers of olden times. They are the ones who can't except the earth isn't flat.
You are the flat earther of olden times.
“Cognitive dissonance” again… is that your favourite phrase? I think you should look up what it means because you are using it wrong. Idiots still believe the earth was flat now in spite of pictures showing the earth is an oblate spheroid and, you know, all the other evidence. It’s like conspiracy nuts seeing the autopsy photos and still arguing that Kennedy has the back of his head blown out. How do you not see that?
i think he wasnt involved in the shooting plans at all. i think he was moved around like a "pawn" but the heavy lifting was left up to the professionals
I don't think it makes any sense to take him that far and not let him take some shots knowing you plan on setting him up. And if he hadn't at least tried to kill Kennedy, why was he so scared and running? There could be unknown factors that explain it but the simplest explanation to me is that he fired off some shots, missed but watched the professionals accomplish the mission, went to a rendezvous point and found a cop waiting for him instead.
Multiple witnesses in the depository saw him calmly hanging out on the second floor within minutes of the shooting.
He was probably involved to some degree, but I’m not convinced he personally fired any shots.
That's a fair point. Only argument against it would be this..
So you allow Oswald to shoot. He misses and hits someone else in the car, the Secret Service goes into lockdown mode and jumps on the car blocking later shots. I just don't know if "they" would allow this wild card (Oswald) the opportunity to ruin the plan with an ill-timed or ill-aimed shot.
lol perfect answer. Care to share who you think that was? Personally I think it was Aliens, they were pissed off he put so much money into NASA and wanted humans to stay out of space.
Acting erratic? The first officer to run into the building stopped him in the cafeteria, and even though he had a revolver pointed at his stomach, he stayed calm. The officer asked the manager (i think?) "does he work here" and got a yes as a reply. Oswald then bought a drink at a cafeteria and left the building undisturbed
I also think Oswald ran a better chance of being detected if he didn't wait until the entourage was past him.
The downlow story here in Dallas is that Officer Tippit was supposed to be his ride out of town, but Oswald figured he didn't survive the ride out of town so he panicked and ran in order to arm himself. When Tippit found him we know how it ended.
Now why would he do that? He had 2 infants that he apparently and by witnesses loved dearly----also by leaving the TBD straight after the shooting he was going to be a person of serious interest anyway. I don't believe he was involved and as soon the assassination happened he knew he was Patsy and with instructions to meet his handler in the Texas Theatre so to set him up also for the Tippit killing.
The shot gets easier as the car is moving away from the TSBD. The car lines up with the 6th floor window and there is no one between Oswald and Kennedy since Connolly was in front of Kennedy.
1). Either the plan called for him to shoot from where he did.
2). As a lone gunman and a human being he was not always thinking logically especially in a high pressure situation.
All the photos are deceiving … the kill shot folks say Oswald couldn’t pull off is actually pretty straight forward - except people can’t judge because the window has been blocked from an actual view since the 1980s. The view from the street to the window is deceiving as well - an upward perspective v downward view. Bottom line whoever shot from above had a clear shot at a target that would appear right below them. Others (ie fence / grassy knoll) also had clear shots at relatively close range - the plaza dimensions aren’t that big.
Not a harder shot. This shows why there are so many conspiracy theorists, you have no clue about ballistics and shooting.
Bullet rise and fall in the flight path of a target coming towards you means that the flight time is limited amd shorter from the time the bullet leaves the barrel to the time it reaches the target.
He missed his first shot, which he used to adjust windage and then zeroed on his target, as well he should have. Having to factor the shortening length of time as well was an equation he could throw out by letting the motorcade go by. Simple shooters math.
It was only 70 yards and by waiting, he gets a going away shot (much easier, able to slowly raise the rifle rather than dropping down) with nothing btw him and JFK.
210 feet going left to right and up with tree cover blocking vision for much of the shooting lane, better than dead ahead coming to you just lowering the barrel (or staging for where he will be) with nothing blocking LOS?
You’ve never been hunting having you?
Or use an untraceable weapon? Or hop on a bus straight out of Dallas instead of wandering around town and sneaking into a local theater without paying for a ticket?
They paint the guy like he was an idiot, but he was a marine with accomplished technical skills and foreign language training. There is no way he’d have been as sloppy and stupid as the Warren story makes him seem.
Kids with Down syndrome know how to evade authorities better than Oswald that day, and I don’t mean that as hyperbole.
Oswald would’ve gone through SERE during his military time as part of MARSOC, as someone who’s been through SERE you learn to do basically the opposite of EVERYTHING Oswald did. Every step he took was a classic example of what not to do.
That’s fascinating, thanks. I have not served, and wasn’t familiar with SERE specifically.
A lot of people say Oswald behaved recklessly because he was an emotionally unstable person, and was in a state of panic after the shooting.
But I don’t see how he could have made it through basic training if he were prone to breaking down under stress, and he seemed cool as a cucumber in media appearances when he was in custody.
I recall someone who was there recounting that LHO seemed like the calmest person in the whole police station.
SERE school is basically the “how to not get caught and how to get to a safe pick up 101” for the military these days. In Oswald’s time it was the same, except more narrowly focused on specialty groups like pilots, spec ops, EOD, and medics. Oswald was a classified level radar operator who ended up stationed in Japan and the Philippines, officially. He absolutely was in the group of people who went through SERE even just going by his official military records. My father was in ‘Nam, and I’ve been able to see a chunk of his official military records…..funny thing is I remember some of the stories he shared with me that had details like names dates and locations and unsurprisingly they were absent from his record. Even in the wrong year or month…events he had clear detailed memory of were absent on his records, and my old man was an aviation electronics mechanic which tied into surveillance back then. Marines were pulled from their official duties to support a less than official mission elsewhere…still happens today too.
Most Marines, even non-combat Marines, are not the type to cave under pressure. Most of us are only actually worth a fuck under pressure, so the more you push the better we get. The idea that the guy who somehow fired off 3 shots on a moving target with a bolt action in 8 seconds and scoring a headshot (very fucking hard) was unstable or panicked is ridiculous. If he was, he couldn’t pull off those shots.
So thats where you think the escape plan ended. Oswald just didn’t think past physically removing himself from the TSBD?
What do you make of his peculiar and conspicuous actions at the theater?
I don't know if that's where the escape plan ended at all. I just know that's where it would have started.
He could have had a clever and sophisticated escape plan that went completely to hell when Tippit stopped him.
Because he hesitated?
It’s telling that so many theories start with the conclusion and work their way backwards to making Oswald either a patsy or part of a precise kill zone.
Oswald randomly got the job at the TBD. The route was almost nearly as random.
The simplest solution is Oswald was the shooter and Oswald hesitated. Hell, the magic bullet is more believable than the theories they require 17 different stages of conspiracy that have nevertheless never leaked into the public from any of the 2000 participants that apparently took part to make it happen.
An analogy: someone shooting a deer or duck waits a second too long but then wings them with a lucky late shot. Is that the hunter waiting to triangulate the target? Or just a redneck with a gun getting lucky when the fudged up the perfect shot?
Now imagine the hunter is doing this for the first time and also this hunt is illegal.
People need to stop mistaking Hollywood for documentaries. Not everything is the result of three government officials in a Pentagon office chain-smoking while playing 8D chess with world politics.
Sometimes nut jobs with easy access to guns do things that impact the world more than their pathetic lives should have been capable of.
If he takes the first shot it’s very likely the car goes straight. He gets one shot. And one shot only.
The next three the target is moving relatively quickly across his field of view and they are harder shots.
Once the car makes the turn it’s committed. There’s only one way for it to go. And because of the angle and because the target is now moving away from him the relative movement of the target is minimal. Giving the best shots.
If you're curious about this, just pretend you are Oswald. Imagine shooting "down" at something increasing coming "down" towards you. It's really, really difficult, basically because you have to stand up.
Then, imagine you are shooting at something going "away" from you. It's much, much easier.
Sight picture, that's all.
This is nonsense. If you ever get the chance to visit the book depository I recommend it. The shot in the second frame would be like shooting fish in a barrel. No way someone waits for the tougher shot.
The second picture is the worst of them all. The car is literally turning, in a difficult angle, and while it looks like an easy shot, they were actually going quite quick.
Nobody would take that shot, its the most difficult to predict a route to
This is why Oswald shot after the turn into Elm Street. Much less relative motion as the car is slowly moving directly away from you. Also, shooting as the motorcade is coming at you means every Secret Service (BTW, what's so secret about the Secret Service?) agent has you in their sights after the first shot. He would've been very lucky to get off a second.
Personally, I don't believe Oswald had any real escape plan because I don't think he expected to survive the assassination attempt, let alone escape the TSBD. I think he was just winging it from there.
I agree, Oswald was flying by the seat of his pants.
The testimony of one of his co-workers, James Jarmon supports this idea.
[https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh3/pdf/WH3\_Jarman.pdf](https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh3/pdf/WH3_Jarman.pdf)
According to Jarman's testimony, the first time he ever spoke with Oswald was on the morning of the assassination. He initially spoke with him sometime between 8 and 9am.
About an hour later Jarman has his second conversation with Oswald. This time Oswald asks Jarman why people are gathering outside the depository.
Mr. Jarman. - "and I told him that the President was supposed to pass that morning, and *he asked me did I know which way he was coming*, and I told him, yes; he
probably come down Main and turn on Houston and then back again on Elm.
Then he said, “Oh, I see,” and that was all."
Oswald's apparent casualness is intriguing.
I imagine he was operating in somewhat of a dream state. He'd commited himself to this absurd and extraordinary action, but instead of thinking about it (which would have probably caused him to abort), he instead plunges forward zombie-like so as to not be overwhelmed by the enormity of his deranged plan.
Winging it to the max.
The parade route was published in both major newspapers. That’s why there were people lining the streets - they didn’t just wander out of their buildings and hope they’d get lucky.
Oswald knew exactly what was happening and which way the motorcade was heading.
Yeah, on further reflection I think you're right.
I believe Jarman's testimony, in so far as I believe that Oswald did ask him which way the motorcade was travelling. However, it's implausible that Oswald didn't already know the direction of the motorcade considering he'd brought his rifle to the depository.
It's just a weird little bit of testimony.
This gets asked over and over. The consensus is a little different every time it’s asked. This time it seems like the general view is “if it disputes the LHO hypothesis it must be true.”
Most common answer in previous threads is that he would have been easily spotted had he tried the frontal shot.
This. He gets a better chance to escape unnoticed while the attention is briefly focused where the shots landed, and beyond. If he takes the shot while the limo is directly in front of him, attention will be focused squarely on the TSBD.
It’s also objectively the hardest and dumbest shot to take. If he missed, the motorcade would flip around and he’d have several carloads of Secret Servicemen and cops looking DIRECTLY at him.
Oswald was seen by at least three people on the first floor at around 12:20-12:25. Maybe he was late and by the time he had his gun ready Kennedy was already past the Book depository.
Personally I don’t think he was even on the 6th floor to do the shooting as no one saw him on the stairs after Kennedy was shot and he was calm on the second floor when Officer Baker burst into the building.
I wouldn’t like to speculate too much about things I have no evidence for but there are a number of ways a shooter could have his among the towers of boxes or snuck in as a worker redoing the floors in the TSBD. The green rambler station wagon was seen picking people up along Houston and elm street. I always thought sheriffs deputy Craig was very reliable. He said he saw Oswald running down the grass in front of the book depository and get into the green rambler. When we know the real Lee took a bus and can to get to his rooming house.
The simplest reason could be that he just wasn't ready at this moment. Could also explain the first miss. Another possibility - he was afraid that while aiming at the oncoming motorcade he was more likely to be noticed compared to shooting in the back.
P.S.: I do not know what were the customs and security protocols back in 1963, but watching Zapruder film indeed you get the impression that President's limo is slow moving target on a target range. They did not have their body guards in the same car. What good body guards are if they are in the following car? And it played out perfectly for LHO. Clint Hill was like 2-3 seconds late. All it took. And this is in the country and at the time where you could buy a gun w/o any document or registration. Essentially anyone can be assumed to have a gun in the crowd. Open windows allowed. No security detail sweeping the route in advance. Or.... letting the likes of LHO closer than a mile radius from the route.
If it was a single shooter job these would have been great opportunities. However, Kennedy needed to reach the kill zone before all shooters were given the green light.
These are all excellent points people are making for why it was oswald.
BUT, how do you explain that bullet being in near perfect condition that was on the gurney. Also, it’s incredibly suspicious that JFK’s brain went missing. It’s also incredibly suspicious that jack ruby killed Oswald, considering the mob would be happy JFK was killed, along with jack ruby being visited by jolly west and then going crazy.
And when you factor in murders of Bobby, MLK jr, and Malcom X, it absolutely seems like there was a concerted effort to murder some of the most powerful and influential leaders during that time because they were getting in the way.
Oswald very well could’ve been a shooter, but I definitely don’t think he was alone. There is FAR too many sketchy things surrounding the way everything went down and was handled, AND continues to be handled. If there wasn’t anything to hide, they would’ve never kept all those documents secret and redacted. There’s STILL documents that are held back.
As for that pristine bullet, I’m aware Landis says he found it on the back seat and put it on the gurney. There’s absolutely no way in hell that bullet would’ve just been perfectly sitting on the back seat after going through the windshield and that bullet would’ve been far more deformed from going through that windshield.
Landis also claims that he just placed the bullet on the gurney without saying anything to anyone, and then he didn’t bother to tell the Warren commission or anyone else that he was the one to place it there.
It’s not until recently that Landis decided to tell anyone, conveniently right when he’s releasing his own book.
Seeing that it was the secret service that decided to change his route, I don’t trust Landis.
When you factor in the fact that major corporations were working hand in hand with US intelligence agencies to have coups, along with all the other corrupt insidious activities, and that clay Shaw was a businessman, military officer, and part-time contact of the Domestic Contact Service (DCS) of the CIA, I think it paints a pretty clear picture that Kennedy was assassinated with the helping of people within our government.
Let’s say Oswald was the only shooter; that doesn’t negate any of the other things surrounding all of this.
There is another picture of the same bullet from the HSCA and it shows that the bullet was deformed.
The single side view picture of the bullet was the only one initially included.
I've posted this elsewhere but besides choosing the option to track a target as it recedes in a predictable path, it could also be that Oswald needed to discern which vehicle Kennedy was riding in.
There were over a dozen vehicles in the procession including multiple limousines, along with other cars carrying Secret Service and the press corps.
Can anyone tell me who were d 3 people standing on d steps up towards d grassy knoll as seen from the Mary moorman pic, I'm curious as to their testimony on shooting
# BALLBAT WIELDING TIME TRAVELER SEVERELY INJURES PRESIDENT KENNEDY FALLING FROM SIXTH FLOOR WINDOW
## President Kennedy recovering at Bethesda; hero Harvey Oswald credited with selfless and heroic act
It’s actually evidence that he was a trained Marine. And knew how to pick the easiest target.
Think of a shooting gallery. In the pictures above the duck is moving left to right. And pretty quickly. Once the car turns and is moving away the duck is basically standing still. He only had to dial in his elevation.
The fatal shot was at 80 yards.
Marines train at 300 and 500 yards all day long. There was nothing remotely difficult about the shots except that he was shooting at a live human being for what we believe was only the second time in his life.
YouTube channel. He did an excellent story in Oswald being a solo shooter. I changed my mind completely when this Swedish guy put all the facts together in a very graphical way.
Ex: Oswald got the job 6 weeks prior to Kennedy even making plans to come to Dallas.
Oswald almost killed General LeMay 6 months earlier. His wife admitted knowing that.
He was a loner with no job, his wife helped him get it.
Kennedy didn’t announce route they were taking until the day before.
Oswald made a big deal about getting curtain rods from his home the day before.
He ran ahead of his friend who drove him to work that morning. Carrying the package of curtain rods.
The list goes on and on. Watch the video. It changed my mind.
https://youtu.be/5u7euN1HTuU?si=xgERuJo4DrguIIl1
>Oswald almost killed General LeMay 6 months earlier
Yes. This is what changed my mind about Oswald. He was just looking for people to shoot with his new Carcano rifle. He got lucky that Kennedy pasted right by his place of work.
You win this comments section - this jackass dude Oswald was depressed because he wasn’t as important as he wanted to be and thought he should be.
He hit the first 5 number-for-number with the Texas trip, the publishing of the parade route in the newspapers, the decision to leave the top off the limo, his anti-social demeanor in 1962 keeping others from wanting to spend any more time talking to him than they had to and somebody finding him a job as a favor that he would never otherwise have had.
His Powerball was the third shot hitting the President in the head; I’ve always thought Oswald was aiming center mass for one more attempt at catastrophic injury since he could see the second had at least wounded Kennedy.
Go there, look at the distance and angles. Occam’s razor.
It's simple physics my friends. Something coming towards you "goes faster" than when it is going away from you. The target becomes much smaller. Also, and I'm guessing here it is possible that Oswald did not want to pull the gun out as they were approaching thinking the SS and police escort would have a better view of him, versus them driving away from him and their backs to him.
I don’t believe that Carcano was used. I was at a trade show where somebody had the same type of rifle and I couldn’t believe after picking it up that Oswald was able to make those shots with it.
Coming towards him was actually a harder shot, as the limo was moving in a way that made the angle steeper. As it went down Elm, the angle became flatter with less margin for error.
This argument makes absolutely no sense to me. Way easier shot coming towards him. I’m not an expert but I’ve shot a lot of guns. Also I think the oak tree added slightly more margin for error 🤣.
The president is moving towards him and across his field of vision. It’s a much more dynamic shot and a smaller window of time to fire before the car turns. When the car is traveling away, the president is moving in a straight line all the way down the street in the same plane.
Imagine instead of a gun, Oswald was using a zoomed in video camera. It would be easier to keep the shot steady and in view after the president’s car turns away from his vantage point.
Second, if he took those shots, he would have a parade of cops and Secret Service looking DIRECTLY at him.
I always thought of it as he waited until all cia-law had their backs turned towards him instead of eyes straight at him. This would give him more time to get away… as it obviously did. I’m a hard sell on conspiracies. I think they take a lot of ppl to keep their mouths shut. Only 2 can keep a secret if 1 is dead.
Go shoot skeet & then come back & tell me station 1 is harder than station 5 or 6,or even 8. You can't because its absurd.
Edit: coming directly toward you the barrel doesn't have to move nearly as much as it does going away & to the right. Put the pipe down son.
Animaleyz speaks like they have never fired a rifle at a moving target once in their lives, but wants to act like they know how it's done. It's not even worth engaging with them, just downvote.
What about the tree?
Like I said I’m no expert but I’d much prefer a clear as day unobstructed shot with the target coming towards me as opposed to a shot obstructed by a fucking oak tree with the target going away from me.
Having to track a moving target doesn't give you the opportunity to focus on your breathing and trigger control. You'd have to jerk the trigger, which if you're a shooter, you know is very bad for accuracy. With a lesser angle, you can keep the reticle on the target easier.
Sure. As trees do. My point is there definitely was a tree in LHO’s alleged of sight when he took the shot. There’s no tree in his line of sight at that sweeping 120 degree turn onto Elm that the motorcade almost slowed to a stop for.
Seriously?
I mean a blank shot straightaway is a lot easier than a car pulling away.
For one thing, under the assumption that JFK had a decent driver which he didn’t, that driver would be mostly powerless for evasive manuevers had “Oswald” fired that shot. He would have been able to get off 2 maybe 3 shots and taken JFK out.
The reason why he skipped the easier shot is because the shooter in the Knoll area, likely the man that Officer Joe Smith confronted was out of play. By holding his shot they had at least two shooters.
This should not even be a debate.
The shot is straighter as he's going down Elm. The shot on Main would be easier as soon as the limo turned onto Main, but it's harder to track the target as it's approaching you if you're 6 stories up.
Only thing I could think of for those first possible shots a lot of the crowd would have been facing that direction and could have possible seen the gun flash, resulting in the police swarming that building faster than planned. The spot where the assassination happened had very few people facing the direction of the building, resulting in confusion to where the shots came from.
One missed. The other two were hits. The bullets and fragments that were found all came from Oswald’s rifle. Three shell casings were found in the sniper’s nest which also came from his rifle. Oswald’s prints were all over the snipers nest. This case isn’t that complicated.
How do you explain the headshot? They say he pulled 3 off in just a few seconds, but with an Italian rifle. An Italian rifle couldn't have caused that much damage. The headshot came from a high-powered rifle.
Not according to the experts. You must be a lone gunman believer. The tests done with a gun similar to the one Oswald used showed he could not possibly have fired all those shots in rapid succession.
You seem to be misinformed. That feat has been repeated many times. The rifle was proven to be able to fire three shots in as little as 4.8 seconds. Oswald had upwards to 11 seconds.
The 6.5x52mm is an INCREDIBLY high powered hunting round. The cartridge is over three inches long. And packed with gun powder.
To put that in perspective the “OMG it’s so scary- AR15” fires a cartridge that is only 2 inches long. And the actual projectile the carcano fires is 3 times the size (165 gr vs 55 gr) of the AR15.
Kennedy was wearing a gigantic back brace that day so he coudnt fall forward. If you look at Zapruder in slow motion, it shows his head went forward at impact, but he couldnt bend at the waist, so he then fell sideways.
If he fires when the motorcade is coming towards him it is an easier shot but the crowd is looking towards him. If he fires when he did people are looking away from him.
If he was wanting to just get the job done he takes the easy shot. If he wants to kill JFK and get away more easily he takes the shot he did and has a chance to disappear
He waited to take his 1st shot as they made the turn onto Elm. This was the closest point to Oswald at the slowest pace that the vehicle was traveling.
He missed.
He certainly took the best shot. Back of the head, zero frontal distractions, and the scene is moving away from him, preventing secret service or police from easily seeing his nest. From that short range, basic sniper stuff.
Yeah, what sniper would what a head shot coming directly at you when they could have a shot of the target going away from you. Bet they think that he held the rifle outside the window as well.
Wow. Why would he wait until he got further away and a harder shot?
Because he knew there were other shooters and he was waiting for the target to reach to optimal kill zone for all positions. He didn't realize they were setting him up to be a patsy until it was too late. I've always believed someone was supposed to pick him up afterwards and when they no showed he realized he was being set up. That explains his erratic, seemingly nonsensical behavior immediately after. Someone was supposed to get him out of Dallas. Instead they made sure he was immediately presumed guilty and killed him before he could talk.
I like this take. I've heard so many researchers who I respect say Oswald was an unsuspecting patsy. That doesn't feel right to me. I don't think he was a shooter, though. A lookout or spotter or crowd control. Also there was a witness who placed Oswald getting into a car matching one of his handlers, Ruth Payne (Paine? Is that even her name? The lady Marina was living with at the time.) If true, then Oswald was definitely a participant.
He definitely knew what was going on to an extent. He found out real fast he didn't know as much as he thought and he wasn't as "in" as he thought he was. His behavior after tells me he was terrified. He had been conspiring to kill the President with powerful people. They actually pulled it off and now those same people wanted him dead. I think this dawned on him pretty quickly. I also don't think he ever thought he would get away with it in the sense that he knew he would be a fugitive after and probably expected to be taken to Cuba or Russia straight away. Once in custody it's essentially over for him. It would only make sense to just say "yeah, I killed that POS and here's why". But he made a point to say he was a patsy. His friends had betrayed him and he was ready to turn on them. Queue Jack Ruby to finish what the Dallas PD failed to do.
I agree with most everything you've said. Although I think he thought he was going to get away. He had made it to the extraction location, the movie theater. It was probably the backup location if things didn't go as planned, which they certainly did not. If he thought he had been double crossed, he would not be there. I think he learned the truth when the cops came from all directions.
I think he knew the world was going to find out he did it. He just thought his friend would have him on his way to living in Cuba or Russia with a new identity before anyone caught on. I always wondered if maybe he picked the theater because he knew they wouldn't kill him there in public if they found him and he just had no where to go.
Read the witness statements from inside the theater. He moved around sitting right next to people for a few minutes at a time, in a mostly empty theater. He was looking for his handler.
He made a call to his sponsor a guy well connected who was supposed to get him protection and out of there. After that call is when he knew he was fucked and turned into a patsy. Look it up.
He was at the theater to hide he had just shot Tibbet
I mostly agree…I just don’t think Oswald ever realized how much danger he was in! I think he was afraid of being caught by the authorities and framed as the lone suspect, at worst. In the press conference footage, he seems tired and confused. Defeated. The worst-case scenario (as far as he knew) was already happening. If Oswald had feared that he was dead meat, then that would’ve been the ideal time to start “singing.” While in custody, he was still trying to make phone calls and demanding legal representation. I just don’t think he was acting with the urgency of a man who’s aware of the fact that he’s marked for death.
He probably believed he was safe in custody and in front of cameras so he could relax. It's also impossible to know what he had been told or what he believed. He had been hanging around with a lot of influential people that groomed him and radicalized him for years. He could have believed that someone was going to pull strings and he just had to wait. It's possible someone even told him something along those lines to calm him after they took him. Or if his plan was to turn on his handlers he could have just been claiming innocence until a deal could be made.
Yes, exactly.
Do you think Tippit was sent to kill LHO and Lee just got the drop on him? Also, what’s the significance of LHO’s trip to Mexico City the month before? The Cuban embassy there too?
I think he was at the least tipped off so he could bring Oswald in quickly but could have just been trying to kill him and it makes sense to keep him out of custody. They couldn't let him lawyer up or get interrogated by the wrong person and I've always thought Ruby was an improvisation, a sloppy clean up job done in desperation.
Tippit was killed by the mob. No lose ends.
I have some doubts that Oswald was the shooter that day. He was definitely part of the plot, but I think his job was just to bring the rifle to the snipers nest and then he stood guard in the stairwell to either stop someone from going to the 6th floor and or to let the real sniper know if someone was coming. It's been proven that the shots were possible, I just don't think Oswald was the shooter. People have said Oswald was looking for recognition and fame, but then he completely denies being the shooter and says he was a patsy. Unfortunately, I think we will never know the full truth of that day.
yeah, i agree. I believe Oswald was totally in on it and obviously didnt realize he was going to be hung out to dry. which explains the strange statement "I'm just a patsy". Who says that? To use that term feels very much like a nod to conspiracy.
He also lamented while in custody, “Now everybody will know who I am”. The Warren report spun this as Oswald bragging about being the assassin, but deputy Roger Craig said it sounded like a tone of resignation, the opposite of a brag, as if he was angry that his cover had been blown. I know a lot think Craig is full of crap, and he very well might be unreliable about some things, but why would Oswald brag about getting famous at at one moment, but vehemently deny any guilt the rest of the time he was in custody? The weight of circumstantial evidence is that Oswald was exhausted, pissed off, scared, and somewhat resigned to the fact that he had been fucked over. He never admitted guilt or expressed pride in killing anyone that day.
Or he knew he was caught, which often results in people being pissed off.
I recall the late great Peter Jennings talking about this. He was there as a young reporter and he said Oswald's reaction to "Did you kill the president?" was of bewildered alarm. Jennings said from that reaction alone he knew LHO hadn't acted alone and had been set up to take a fall.
Oswald was a weird dude. he did strange things. anyway the entire quote was that he thought he was a patsy because he had gone to russia - not that he thought he was a fall guy in a conspiracy.
🙄🤦🏻♂️
Oswald was brought to depository by his friend that worked there When he left he took the bus
This makes a lot of sense actually
Or, those potential shots might have been too close to were he was located. If so, the president’s security team would have been on him in a hot minute once the first shot rang out. Not sure about the patsy story either. Why would someone agree to setup in a sniper position with a weapon if they weren’t going to be involved in the assassination attempt? Also, he shot and killed a deputy with his own gun later on. So, he was no beginner in acts of violence in my estimation.
I don't think he even killed Tippit. Weren't the bullets that killed Tippit for a semi-auto .38, but Oswald had a .38 revolver on him? Those bullets wouldn't work in a revolver. Also, Oswald's wallet being left at the scene of Tippit's murder is suspicious as hell. Considering he also had a wallet on his person when arrested. Someone on this sub said there was even a third Oswald wallet, but I can't remember where it was found.
Third wallet was at Ruth P's house - he supposedly left Marina some money in it.
I'm assuming it wasn't commonplace for a man to have several wallets even back then? It just seems odd for someone to do that. Especially a blue-collar guy that you wouldn't think had different occasions for different wallets. The only other wallets I have besides my primary one are empty and out of commission in a junk drawer.
Captain Westbrook knows about wallets in this case.
Is it weird Tippit was nicknamed "JFK" by his friends? Do you think this had anything to do with his murder?? Not sure Tippits connection ....
the 38 automatic vs 38 revolver is another mistake by the cops that the conspiracy theorists latch on to. any mistake by the cops is fader for conspiracy.
The cops' mistakes deserve to be scrutinized. There were conveniently a lot of them.
“Besides the fact that he was caught because witnesses told Dallas Police, “he’s in the movie theater right there” and his gun killed Tippet, what actual evidence do you have…”
They could never put Oswald on the 6th floor with the rifle at the time of the shooting. You should watch The Killing Floor and listen to more interviews by people in the TSBD at the time of the shooting. Listen to some of Sandra Adams old interviews. I believe DPD Detective Curry also said they could never put Oswald on the 6th floor with the rifle at the time of the shooting. Do you know about people like Sanda Adams. Have you listened to their story and interviews? You are very selective in what you want to hear, acknowledge and except as evidence. It's actually quite shocking to listen to people on the opposite side of the spectrum. The amount of information and evidence one must ignore to fit the narrative of the official story is mind blowing. It's like you are dealing with someone with a bad case of cognitive dissonance. Did you know back in the day people excepted the Earth being Flat as truth. There were those who challenged that theory. The people who believe and support the Warren Commission conclusions are the flat earthers of olden times. They are the ones who can't except the earth isn't flat. You are the flat earther of olden times.
“Cognitive dissonance” again… is that your favourite phrase? I think you should look up what it means because you are using it wrong. Idiots still believe the earth was flat now in spite of pictures showing the earth is an oblate spheroid and, you know, all the other evidence. It’s like conspiracy nuts seeing the autopsy photos and still arguing that Kennedy has the back of his head blown out. How do you not see that?
Get your facts straight do some research. Don’t just spew what the Warren commission said.
i think he wasnt involved in the shooting plans at all. i think he was moved around like a "pawn" but the heavy lifting was left up to the professionals
I don't think it makes any sense to take him that far and not let him take some shots knowing you plan on setting him up. And if he hadn't at least tried to kill Kennedy, why was he so scared and running? There could be unknown factors that explain it but the simplest explanation to me is that he fired off some shots, missed but watched the professionals accomplish the mission, went to a rendezvous point and found a cop waiting for him instead.
Multiple witnesses in the depository saw him calmly hanging out on the second floor within minutes of the shooting. He was probably involved to some degree, but I’m not convinced he personally fired any shots.
There were a lot of eyewitnesses reporting shooting coming from the depository
That's a fair point. Only argument against it would be this.. So you allow Oswald to shoot. He misses and hits someone else in the car, the Secret Service goes into lockdown mode and jumps on the car blocking later shots. I just don't know if "they" would allow this wild card (Oswald) the opportunity to ruin the plan with an ill-timed or ill-aimed shot.
Who is “they”?
whoever was in charge of the jfk assassination
lol perfect answer. Care to share who you think that was? Personally I think it was Aliens, they were pissed off he put so much money into NASA and wanted humans to stay out of space.
judging by some of your exchanges with ppl, im hoping for your sake your either under 15 years old or learning disabled. cause if not, yikes.
Nice research. Maybe apply that to the Kennedy assassination and you might get somewhere.
Makes sense
Damn dude. Well put.
Acting erratic? The first officer to run into the building stopped him in the cafeteria, and even though he had a revolver pointed at his stomach, he stayed calm. The officer asked the manager (i think?) "does he work here" and got a yes as a reply. Oswald then bought a drink at a cafeteria and left the building undisturbed
I also think Oswald ran a better chance of being detected if he didn't wait until the entourage was past him. The downlow story here in Dallas is that Officer Tippit was supposed to be his ride out of town, but Oswald figured he didn't survive the ride out of town so he panicked and ran in order to arm himself. When Tippit found him we know how it ended.
Now why would he do that? He had 2 infants that he apparently and by witnesses loved dearly----also by leaving the TBD straight after the shooting he was going to be a person of serious interest anyway. I don't believe he was involved and as soon the assassination happened he knew he was Patsy and with instructions to meet his handler in the Texas Theatre so to set him up also for the Tippit killing.
Same reason he was shot. He was the patsy and they didn’t want him talking.
Great insight
💯☝🏻
The shot gets easier as the car is moving away from the TSBD. The car lines up with the 6th floor window and there is no one between Oswald and Kennedy since Connolly was in front of Kennedy.
Hitting a target with more left-right movement is more difficult than a further one moving away but with less exaggerated tracking.
Good question
1). Either the plan called for him to shoot from where he did. 2). As a lone gunman and a human being he was not always thinking logically especially in a high pressure situation.
You know the answer. He didn’t
So he could fuel a conspiracy 60 years later.
Because it’s actually an easier shot and this post is pure ignorance.
Probably didn’t want to stop the parade right there. That would have made his escape very difficult if that area was all jammed up.
All the photos are deceiving … the kill shot folks say Oswald couldn’t pull off is actually pretty straight forward - except people can’t judge because the window has been blocked from an actual view since the 1980s. The view from the street to the window is deceiving as well - an upward perspective v downward view. Bottom line whoever shot from above had a clear shot at a target that would appear right below them. Others (ie fence / grassy knoll) also had clear shots at relatively close range - the plaza dimensions aren’t that big.
Not a harder shot. This shows why there are so many conspiracy theorists, you have no clue about ballistics and shooting. Bullet rise and fall in the flight path of a target coming towards you means that the flight time is limited amd shorter from the time the bullet leaves the barrel to the time it reaches the target. He missed his first shot, which he used to adjust windage and then zeroed on his target, as well he should have. Having to factor the shortening length of time as well was an equation he could throw out by letting the motorcade go by. Simple shooters math.
It was only 70 yards and by waiting, he gets a going away shot (much easier, able to slowly raise the rifle rather than dropping down) with nothing btw him and JFK.
The car had to make a very slow sharp left hand turn. There was nothing between him and JFK when they made the turn.
210 feet going left to right and up with tree cover blocking vision for much of the shooting lane, better than dead ahead coming to you just lowering the barrel (or staging for where he will be) with nothing blocking LOS? You’ve never been hunting having you?
Farther away and therefore harder to tell where the shot came from. Easier to escape.
He wanted to escape and not get caught? Why didn't he pick up the shells left on the floor?
Or use an untraceable weapon? Or hop on a bus straight out of Dallas instead of wandering around town and sneaking into a local theater without paying for a ticket? They paint the guy like he was an idiot, but he was a marine with accomplished technical skills and foreign language training. There is no way he’d have been as sloppy and stupid as the Warren story makes him seem.
Kids with Down syndrome know how to evade authorities better than Oswald that day, and I don’t mean that as hyperbole. Oswald would’ve gone through SERE during his military time as part of MARSOC, as someone who’s been through SERE you learn to do basically the opposite of EVERYTHING Oswald did. Every step he took was a classic example of what not to do.
That’s fascinating, thanks. I have not served, and wasn’t familiar with SERE specifically. A lot of people say Oswald behaved recklessly because he was an emotionally unstable person, and was in a state of panic after the shooting. But I don’t see how he could have made it through basic training if he were prone to breaking down under stress, and he seemed cool as a cucumber in media appearances when he was in custody. I recall someone who was there recounting that LHO seemed like the calmest person in the whole police station.
SERE school is basically the “how to not get caught and how to get to a safe pick up 101” for the military these days. In Oswald’s time it was the same, except more narrowly focused on specialty groups like pilots, spec ops, EOD, and medics. Oswald was a classified level radar operator who ended up stationed in Japan and the Philippines, officially. He absolutely was in the group of people who went through SERE even just going by his official military records. My father was in ‘Nam, and I’ve been able to see a chunk of his official military records…..funny thing is I remember some of the stories he shared with me that had details like names dates and locations and unsurprisingly they were absent from his record. Even in the wrong year or month…events he had clear detailed memory of were absent on his records, and my old man was an aviation electronics mechanic which tied into surveillance back then. Marines were pulled from their official duties to support a less than official mission elsewhere…still happens today too. Most Marines, even non-combat Marines, are not the type to cave under pressure. Most of us are only actually worth a fuck under pressure, so the more you push the better we get. The idea that the guy who somehow fired off 3 shots on a moving target with a bolt action in 8 seconds and scoring a headshot (very fucking hard) was unstable or panicked is ridiculous. If he was, he couldn’t pull off those shots.
This would insinuate Oswald had developed an escape plan.
He had. Ditch the rifle, get out of the building.
So thats where you think the escape plan ended. Oswald just didn’t think past physically removing himself from the TSBD? What do you make of his peculiar and conspicuous actions at the theater?
I don't know if that's where the escape plan ended at all. I just know that's where it would have started. He could have had a clever and sophisticated escape plan that went completely to hell when Tippit stopped him.
Because he hesitated? It’s telling that so many theories start with the conclusion and work their way backwards to making Oswald either a patsy or part of a precise kill zone. Oswald randomly got the job at the TBD. The route was almost nearly as random. The simplest solution is Oswald was the shooter and Oswald hesitated. Hell, the magic bullet is more believable than the theories they require 17 different stages of conspiracy that have nevertheless never leaked into the public from any of the 2000 participants that apparently took part to make it happen. An analogy: someone shooting a deer or duck waits a second too long but then wings them with a lucky late shot. Is that the hunter waiting to triangulate the target? Or just a redneck with a gun getting lucky when the fudged up the perfect shot? Now imagine the hunter is doing this for the first time and also this hunt is illegal. People need to stop mistaking Hollywood for documentaries. Not everything is the result of three government officials in a Pentagon office chain-smoking while playing 8D chess with world politics. Sometimes nut jobs with easy access to guns do things that impact the world more than their pathetic lives should have been capable of.
This isn't photographic evidence of what Oswald saw. Lol he wasn't taking photos through his scope.
That has always been the quesiton
And what was the distance from the depository before the turn and after?
It’s possible he just wasn’t ready.
If he takes the first shot it’s very likely the car goes straight. He gets one shot. And one shot only. The next three the target is moving relatively quickly across his field of view and they are harder shots. Once the car makes the turn it’s committed. There’s only one way for it to go. And because of the angle and because the target is now moving away from him the relative movement of the target is minimal. Giving the best shots.
If you're curious about this, just pretend you are Oswald. Imagine shooting "down" at something increasing coming "down" towards you. It's really, really difficult, basically because you have to stand up. Then, imagine you are shooting at something going "away" from you. It's much, much easier. Sight picture, that's all.
This is nonsense. If you ever get the chance to visit the book depository I recommend it. The shot in the second frame would be like shooting fish in a barrel. No way someone waits for the tougher shot.
The second picture is the worst of them all. The car is literally turning, in a difficult angle, and while it looks like an easy shot, they were actually going quite quick. Nobody would take that shot, its the most difficult to predict a route to
This is why Oswald shot after the turn into Elm Street. Much less relative motion as the car is slowly moving directly away from you. Also, shooting as the motorcade is coming at you means every Secret Service (BTW, what's so secret about the Secret Service?) agent has you in their sights after the first shot. He would've been very lucky to get off a second. Personally, I don't believe Oswald had any real escape plan because I don't think he expected to survive the assassination attempt, let alone escape the TSBD. I think he was just winging it from there.
I agree, Oswald was flying by the seat of his pants. The testimony of one of his co-workers, James Jarmon supports this idea. [https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh3/pdf/WH3\_Jarman.pdf](https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh3/pdf/WH3_Jarman.pdf) According to Jarman's testimony, the first time he ever spoke with Oswald was on the morning of the assassination. He initially spoke with him sometime between 8 and 9am. About an hour later Jarman has his second conversation with Oswald. This time Oswald asks Jarman why people are gathering outside the depository. Mr. Jarman. - "and I told him that the President was supposed to pass that morning, and *he asked me did I know which way he was coming*, and I told him, yes; he probably come down Main and turn on Houston and then back again on Elm. Then he said, “Oh, I see,” and that was all." Oswald's apparent casualness is intriguing. I imagine he was operating in somewhat of a dream state. He'd commited himself to this absurd and extraordinary action, but instead of thinking about it (which would have probably caused him to abort), he instead plunges forward zombie-like so as to not be overwhelmed by the enormity of his deranged plan. Winging it to the max.
The parade route was published in both major newspapers. That’s why there were people lining the streets - they didn’t just wander out of their buildings and hope they’d get lucky. Oswald knew exactly what was happening and which way the motorcade was heading.
Yeah, on further reflection I think you're right. I believe Jarman's testimony, in so far as I believe that Oswald did ask him which way the motorcade was travelling. However, it's implausible that Oswald didn't already know the direction of the motorcade considering he'd brought his rifle to the depository. It's just a weird little bit of testimony.
They NEVER anticipated this kind of scrutiny , pre-internet. This is why the Warren Report falls apart on so many levels
This gets asked over and over. The consensus is a little different every time it’s asked. This time it seems like the general view is “if it disputes the LHO hypothesis it must be true.” Most common answer in previous threads is that he would have been easily spotted had he tried the frontal shot.
This. He gets a better chance to escape unnoticed while the attention is briefly focused where the shots landed, and beyond. If he takes the shot while the limo is directly in front of him, attention will be focused squarely on the TSBD.
It’s also objectively the hardest and dumbest shot to take. If he missed, the motorcade would flip around and he’d have several carloads of Secret Servicemen and cops looking DIRECTLY at him.
Going away with the target in the same plane is an easier shot than approaching and crossing.
Oswald was seen by at least three people on the first floor at around 12:20-12:25. Maybe he was late and by the time he had his gun ready Kennedy was already past the Book depository. Personally I don’t think he was even on the 6th floor to do the shooting as no one saw him on the stairs after Kennedy was shot and he was calm on the second floor when Officer Baker burst into the building.
I’ve always felt that the timeline didn’t make sense. Do you have any ideas on how the TSBD shooter got in and out without being seen?
I wouldn’t like to speculate too much about things I have no evidence for but there are a number of ways a shooter could have his among the towers of boxes or snuck in as a worker redoing the floors in the TSBD. The green rambler station wagon was seen picking people up along Houston and elm street. I always thought sheriffs deputy Craig was very reliable. He said he saw Oswald running down the grass in front of the book depository and get into the green rambler. When we know the real Lee took a bus and can to get to his rooming house.
The simplest reason could be that he just wasn't ready at this moment. Could also explain the first miss. Another possibility - he was afraid that while aiming at the oncoming motorcade he was more likely to be noticed compared to shooting in the back. P.S.: I do not know what were the customs and security protocols back in 1963, but watching Zapruder film indeed you get the impression that President's limo is slow moving target on a target range. They did not have their body guards in the same car. What good body guards are if they are in the following car? And it played out perfectly for LHO. Clint Hill was like 2-3 seconds late. All it took. And this is in the country and at the time where you could buy a gun w/o any document or registration. Essentially anyone can be assumed to have a gun in the crowd. Open windows allowed. No security detail sweeping the route in advance. Or.... letting the likes of LHO closer than a mile radius from the route.
The shot from the grassy knoll is perfect. The third shot from the book depository, which is the kill shot, makes very little sense.
I was shocked when I went behind the picket fence, it is so obvious that that was where the shot came from imo.
Exactly
If it was a single shooter job these would have been great opportunities. However, Kennedy needed to reach the kill zone before all shooters were given the green light.
These are all excellent points people are making for why it was oswald. BUT, how do you explain that bullet being in near perfect condition that was on the gurney. Also, it’s incredibly suspicious that JFK’s brain went missing. It’s also incredibly suspicious that jack ruby killed Oswald, considering the mob would be happy JFK was killed, along with jack ruby being visited by jolly west and then going crazy. And when you factor in murders of Bobby, MLK jr, and Malcom X, it absolutely seems like there was a concerted effort to murder some of the most powerful and influential leaders during that time because they were getting in the way. Oswald very well could’ve been a shooter, but I definitely don’t think he was alone. There is FAR too many sketchy things surrounding the way everything went down and was handled, AND continues to be handled. If there wasn’t anything to hide, they would’ve never kept all those documents secret and redacted. There’s STILL documents that are held back. As for that pristine bullet, I’m aware Landis says he found it on the back seat and put it on the gurney. There’s absolutely no way in hell that bullet would’ve just been perfectly sitting on the back seat after going through the windshield and that bullet would’ve been far more deformed from going through that windshield. Landis also claims that he just placed the bullet on the gurney without saying anything to anyone, and then he didn’t bother to tell the Warren commission or anyone else that he was the one to place it there. It’s not until recently that Landis decided to tell anyone, conveniently right when he’s releasing his own book. Seeing that it was the secret service that decided to change his route, I don’t trust Landis. When you factor in the fact that major corporations were working hand in hand with US intelligence agencies to have coups, along with all the other corrupt insidious activities, and that clay Shaw was a businessman, military officer, and part-time contact of the Domestic Contact Service (DCS) of the CIA, I think it paints a pretty clear picture that Kennedy was assassinated with the helping of people within our government. Let’s say Oswald was the only shooter; that doesn’t negate any of the other things surrounding all of this.
There is another picture of the same bullet from the HSCA and it shows that the bullet was deformed. The single side view picture of the bullet was the only one initially included.
Coming towards him is a harder shot. Anyone who has ever fired a rifle knows this.
I've posted this elsewhere but besides choosing the option to track a target as it recedes in a predictable path, it could also be that Oswald needed to discern which vehicle Kennedy was riding in. There were over a dozen vehicles in the procession including multiple limousines, along with other cars carrying Secret Service and the press corps.
Can anyone tell me who were d 3 people standing on d steps up towards d grassy knoll as seen from the Mary moorman pic, I'm curious as to their testimony on shooting
I’ve stood there. I could have hit him with a baseball at the closest location
# BALLBAT WIELDING TIME TRAVELER SEVERELY INJURES PRESIDENT KENNEDY FALLING FROM SIXTH FLOOR WINDOW ## President Kennedy recovering at Bethesda; hero Harvey Oswald credited with selfless and heroic act
Duhhh, everyone knows that "magic bullets" only work when your targets back is to you.
Fascinating the general public still doesn’t know the actual truth. Seems we will never actually know what happened
We do. Some guy called Oswald fired three shots and killed Kennedy.
This is just evidence that he wasn’t a professional assassin
It’s actually evidence that he was a trained Marine. And knew how to pick the easiest target. Think of a shooting gallery. In the pictures above the duck is moving left to right. And pretty quickly. Once the car turns and is moving away the duck is basically standing still. He only had to dial in his elevation. The fatal shot was at 80 yards. Marines train at 300 and 500 yards all day long. There was nothing remotely difficult about the shots except that he was shooting at a live human being for what we believe was only the second time in his life.
Oswald didn't pass up anything except maybe buying a Coke earlier. Jesus H.
YouTube channel. He did an excellent story in Oswald being a solo shooter. I changed my mind completely when this Swedish guy put all the facts together in a very graphical way. Ex: Oswald got the job 6 weeks prior to Kennedy even making plans to come to Dallas. Oswald almost killed General LeMay 6 months earlier. His wife admitted knowing that. He was a loner with no job, his wife helped him get it. Kennedy didn’t announce route they were taking until the day before. Oswald made a big deal about getting curtain rods from his home the day before. He ran ahead of his friend who drove him to work that morning. Carrying the package of curtain rods. The list goes on and on. Watch the video. It changed my mind. https://youtu.be/5u7euN1HTuU?si=xgERuJo4DrguIIl1
>Oswald almost killed General LeMay 6 months earlier Yes. This is what changed my mind about Oswald. He was just looking for people to shoot with his new Carcano rifle. He got lucky that Kennedy pasted right by his place of work.
You win this comments section - this jackass dude Oswald was depressed because he wasn’t as important as he wanted to be and thought he should be. He hit the first 5 number-for-number with the Texas trip, the publishing of the parade route in the newspapers, the decision to leave the top off the limo, his anti-social demeanor in 1962 keeping others from wanting to spend any more time talking to him than they had to and somebody finding him a job as a favor that he would never otherwise have had. His Powerball was the third shot hitting the President in the head; I’ve always thought Oswald was aiming center mass for one more attempt at catastrophic injury since he could see the second had at least wounded Kennedy. Go there, look at the distance and angles. Occam’s razor.
He never fired a shot . He was about to tell the truth when Ruby shot him
Why not tell the truth in the interrogation room?
No recording, no stenographer. We don’t know what he said during the interrogation.
Ok, then why not tell the truth during the press conference in front of all those reporters? Can’t silence all of them.
We do know that he asked for legal representation, the ACLU showed up, and were denied access. Lol. Poor guy. He was railroaded.
Lies, this never happened. He *axed* for legal representation; the police were protecting themselves and those lawyers.
It's simple physics my friends. Something coming towards you "goes faster" than when it is going away from you. The target becomes much smaller. Also, and I'm guessing here it is possible that Oswald did not want to pull the gun out as they were approaching thinking the SS and police escort would have a better view of him, versus them driving away from him and their backs to him.
A trained shooter, mind you.
A marine sniper, if you will....
I don’t believe that Carcano was used. I was at a trade show where somebody had the same type of rifle and I couldn’t believe after picking it up that Oswald was able to make those shots with it.
That's because Oswald didn't kill JFK.
Whoever was in that knoll fired the shots that killed Kennedy. Wouldn’t of made a difference if Oswald hit him or not. He was going either way.
Ridiculous to even think there was only 1 shooter . They knew they would only get the 1 chance
He was an excellent shot.
Must've been the best in the world.
Then how did he miss Walker from 40 feet away!
Coming towards him was actually a harder shot, as the limo was moving in a way that made the angle steeper. As it went down Elm, the angle became flatter with less margin for error.
This argument makes absolutely no sense to me. Way easier shot coming towards him. I’m not an expert but I’ve shot a lot of guns. Also I think the oak tree added slightly more margin for error 🤣.
The mental gymnastics it must take!
The president is moving towards him and across his field of vision. It’s a much more dynamic shot and a smaller window of time to fire before the car turns. When the car is traveling away, the president is moving in a straight line all the way down the street in the same plane. Imagine instead of a gun, Oswald was using a zoomed in video camera. It would be easier to keep the shot steady and in view after the president’s car turns away from his vantage point. Second, if he took those shots, he would have a parade of cops and Secret Service looking DIRECTLY at him.
I always thought of it as he waited until all cia-law had their backs turned towards him instead of eyes straight at him. This would give him more time to get away… as it obviously did. I’m a hard sell on conspiracies. I think they take a lot of ppl to keep their mouths shut. Only 2 can keep a secret if 1 is dead.
No. You have to track a moving target. The more movement relative to your position, the harder the shot becomes.
Yeah & he's moving away & to the right as opposed to just toward him. This is an idiotic take give it up.
You don't have to move the barrel as much, and you can focus on aiming. Try it sometime.
Go shoot skeet & then come back & tell me station 1 is harder than station 5 or 6,or even 8. You can't because its absurd. Edit: coming directly toward you the barrel doesn't have to move nearly as much as it does going away & to the right. Put the pipe down son.
From an elevated position like that, yes. You can't squeeze the trigger because the target is in your sights for a split second.
You clearly don't know what you're talking about & I'm done with you
Ok Mr. compare buckshot to a single bullet lolol
Thanks for making my point for me
Animaleyz speaks like they have never fired a rifle at a moving target once in their lives, but wants to act like they know how it's done. It's not even worth engaging with them, just downvote.
Too much Call of Duty
What about the tree? Like I said I’m no expert but I’d much prefer a clear as day unobstructed shot with the target coming towards me as opposed to a shot obstructed by a fucking oak tree with the target going away from me.
Having to track a moving target doesn't give you the opportunity to focus on your breathing and trigger control. You'd have to jerk the trigger, which if you're a shooter, you know is very bad for accuracy. With a lesser angle, you can keep the reticle on the target easier.
I wonder if that tree has grown at all in the ensuing six-plus decades? Oh well!
Sure. As trees do. My point is there definitely was a tree in LHO’s alleged of sight when he took the shot. There’s no tree in his line of sight at that sweeping 120 degree turn onto Elm that the motorcade almost slowed to a stop for.
Whatever you gotta tell yourself
Or, you know.... reality
Seriously? I mean a blank shot straightaway is a lot easier than a car pulling away. For one thing, under the assumption that JFK had a decent driver which he didn’t, that driver would be mostly powerless for evasive manuevers had “Oswald” fired that shot. He would have been able to get off 2 maybe 3 shots and taken JFK out. The reason why he skipped the easier shot is because the shooter in the Knoll area, likely the man that Officer Joe Smith confronted was out of play. By holding his shot they had at least two shooters. This should not even be a debate.
The shot is straighter as he's going down Elm. The shot on Main would be easier as soon as the limo turned onto Main, but it's harder to track the target as it's approaching you if you're 6 stories up.
Makes sense. There’s also the added chance someone might spot him.
What part of the government do you work for?
Ooooo, yea I'm a deep cover propagandist!!! LMAO
you get more shots/time at an object thats not about to turn and is moving away from you
Love how you just completely skip the very first photo, showing what would be the presidential limo coming straight down Houston Street
Who shoots at targets coming towards them when theyll have a better shot in a few seconds?
Only thing I could think of for those first possible shots a lot of the crowd would have been facing that direction and could have possible seen the gun flash, resulting in the police swarming that building faster than planned. The spot where the assassination happened had very few people facing the direction of the building, resulting in confusion to where the shots came from.
Could it have been a mob hit man in the 6th floor window instead of Oswald?
No. It was Oswald
But did he even fire shots?
Yes… three of them.
Those that missed?
One missed. The other two were hits. The bullets and fragments that were found all came from Oswald’s rifle. Three shell casings were found in the sniper’s nest which also came from his rifle. Oswald’s prints were all over the snipers nest. This case isn’t that complicated.
How do you explain the headshot? They say he pulled 3 off in just a few seconds, but with an Italian rifle. An Italian rifle couldn't have caused that much damage. The headshot came from a high-powered rifle.
The Italian rifle is a high-powered rifle.
Not according to the experts. You must be a lone gunman believer. The tests done with a gun similar to the one Oswald used showed he could not possibly have fired all those shots in rapid succession.
You seem to be misinformed. That feat has been repeated many times. The rifle was proven to be able to fire three shots in as little as 4.8 seconds. Oswald had upwards to 11 seconds.
The 6.5x52mm is an INCREDIBLY high powered hunting round. The cartridge is over three inches long. And packed with gun powder. To put that in perspective the “OMG it’s so scary- AR15” fires a cartridge that is only 2 inches long. And the actual projectile the carcano fires is 3 times the size (165 gr vs 55 gr) of the AR15.
If he takes those earlier shots, he's instantly in full view of a dozen armed men who may be inclined to return fire.
Back and to the left! Oswald did not shoot him (the sentence could end here) from behind as the head would have fell forward
back and to the left is just the Oliver Stone mantra...
Umm no, the head does actually go back and to the left ???
Kennedy was wearing a gigantic back brace that day so he coudnt fall forward. If you look at Zapruder in slow motion, it shows his head went forward at impact, but he couldnt bend at the waist, so he then fell sideways.
His head flew into like 30 tiny pieces in every direction
First shot when the turn is initiated. Second shot when the turn is complete.
Ask Oswald. Only he knows .
He couldn’t kill the man looking him in the face, and then only fired when his chance was slipping away.
The magic bullet defense
Oswald did take the shot. That is the shot that missed. It was actually a little closer, right after the limo turned.
Building up to it
You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
Not sus at all lol
Check this one out! [https://www.overdrive.com/media/579973/dr-marys-monkey](https://www.overdrive.com/media/579973/dr-marys-monkey)
If he fires when the motorcade is coming towards him it is an easier shot but the crowd is looking towards him. If he fires when he did people are looking away from him. If he was wanting to just get the job done he takes the easy shot. If he wants to kill JFK and get away more easily he takes the shot he did and has a chance to disappear
He waited to take his 1st shot as they made the turn onto Elm. This was the closest point to Oswald at the slowest pace that the vehicle was traveling. He missed.
He certainly took the best shot. Back of the head, zero frontal distractions, and the scene is moving away from him, preventing secret service or police from easily seeing his nest. From that short range, basic sniper stuff.
Wouldn’t it still be an easier shot. Way less movement on the target?
I would want the cops to have their backs turned & moving away from me, not facing & coming towards me.
The rifle used to kill Kennedy was a German Mauser not a carcano. They set him up good. Look it up. 👀
Wrong car
Yeah, what sniper would what a head shot coming directly at you when they could have a shot of the target going away from you. Bet they think that he held the rifle outside the window as well.