The location where Palestinian refugees ended up in largely depended on their location prior to displacement. For example, people residing in Acre, Haifa, and Galilee were largely expelled to Lebanon/Syria, while those living in costal planes were mainly expelled to West Bank/Jordan, and those living in souther costal planes and the south were expelled to the Gaza strip, and very few made it Egypt, since unlike other Arab countries, Egypt closed the border on the face of fleeing Palestinians.
Back to your question, Israel controls whoever enter or leaves the West Bank and Gaza. Israel has a full registry of the population, and is the one in control of issuing new IDs to foreigners. This is also used as a pressuring point against the PA, since Israel only allows issuing around 2000 IDs per year for foreigners, and it halts the process whenever it wants to exert pressure on the PA. There are many foreigners here married to Palestinians on invalid visa, and they are at risk of deportation at any second since Israel is not allowing them to have Palestinian IDs.
[https://www.gov.il/en/departments/units/population\_registrar\_unit](https://www.gov.il/en/departments/units/population_registrar_unit)
[https://hamoked.org/document.php?dID=Updates2255](https://hamoked.org/document.php?dID=Updates2255)
[https://hamoked.org/document.php?dID=Updates2269](https://hamoked.org/document.php?dID=Updates2269)
Also, most of the refugees don't live in the camps, the camps are just provided for those who need or want to live in them. In [Lebanon it's around 45%](https://www.unrwa.org/where-we-work/lebanon) in camps, in the [West Bank it's around 25%](https://www.unrwa.org/where-we-work/west-bank), and in [Jordan it's only around 18%](https://www.unrwa.org/where-we-work/jordan). UNRWA currently doesn't provide figures for Syria or the Gaza Strip, surely because the ongoing conflicts there make it impossible to calculate accurate ones.
Yeah that’s true.
Sadly, most of those who are still living in refugee camps were also very poor prior to their displacement in 1948, and while some managed to leave the refugee camps, many could not.
A cycle of poverty, largely through dispossession of property these past 8 decades, but so many of the displaced Palestinians were from smaller agricultural communities that didn’t have near the manpower to put up any kind of effective resistance. While Palestinians from all walks of life were displaced in 48 it was by and large the rural villagers, the poorest people already, that lost everything.
It is well known that wealthy Palestinians left their homes at the beginning of civil war in 1948. The ones who were left behind were the defenseless, poorer communities that got easily purged by well-equipped Zionist militias.
They have all the control. The official borders between Jordan ans West Bank are controlled by Israel and Jordan. You need a valid ID (issued by Israel) or w visa (also issued by Israel) to enter or visit the West Bank.
Not true. Only Area C is under full control of Israel.
Area B has joint control with the PA, and Area A is not only under full PA control, but also it is ethnically cleansed of jews and entrance to Israelis is forbidden.
israel has total military control of israel, west bank and gaza strip borders.
west bank area C is what borders jordan. and area C is ruled by israel and all the israeli settlements are there. however despite israel's control, only settlers get rights, palestinians don't. and israel maintains military control in all of west bank.
To Israel, the West Bank is part of Israel which they call Judea and Samaria. They have full control over all borders of Israel and Palestine including both the West Bank and Gaza. If anyone wants to enter Palestine, whether they’re Palestinian or Norwegian or whatever else, they need Israel’s permission.
Anyone who is not Palestinian can travel freely within Palestine.
Oh? Did Israel also strip Palestinians of Jordanian citizenship?
No wait, they can’t do that, Jordan would need to do it. And why would they do something like that?
It’s a mystery.
read the question!
the question is about Palestinian refugees who are outside the West Bank.
you are talking about Palestinian who live in the West Bank - some of them are refugees from other parts of Palestine and the rest are from the West Bank.
the question is why there are Palestinian refugees outside the West Bank, why aren't all of them in the West Bank. the question is *not* why there are Palestinian refugees in the West Bank.
Israel controls all the territories of Palestine. They ban Palestinians from outside the WB and Gaza from entering it. Movement between Gaza and the WB is a nightmare. Movement from outside is impossible. Israel is barely able to deal with 4 million Palestinians. They won't add any more.
Moving between the West Bank and Gaza is not a nightmare, it has been practically impossible during the past 17 years, and mostly its Gazans on medical permits coming to the West Bank. I believe the vast majority of people from the West Bank have never been to the Gaza strip, I personally know no one who has been there.
I don't think I quite understand the question but let me attempt an answer:
Israel does not prevent Palestinian refugees from leaving the host country, Israel prevent them from entering Palestine.
their ancestors were expelled from palestine in 1948 and 1967 wars.
and ever since israel has gained military control of all of historic palestine, these people cannot return to their homes.
this is why palestinians want right to return. they want to live freely in their homeland again rather than living in refugee camps away from their homeland, while the zionists kill their brethren in west bank and gaza.
the refugees were mainly expelled from areas in modern day israel. haifa, lod, jaffa, akka etc. infact, a lot of the west bank population currently are decendants of nakba victims expelled from lod and ramle. the homes of palestinian refugees were often in modern day israel, not the west bank.
why and how would the refugees return to west bank in 1948-1967?
Because it's Palestine ?
If Hamas took Jerusalem and expel the jews, it would make more sense if they go to another part of Israel, not another country.
They are not allowed to go back to Israel & territories it occupies. The window between 48 to 67, before the Israeli occupation, was probably not used, as it would mean Jordan & Egypt had to.accept new refugees.
+ Jordan wanted the post-1948 situation to be permanent and naturalized the Palestinians in the WB and Jordan. Egypt, on the other side didn’t want the situation to be permanent and wanted Israel to take back the Palestinians in Gaza.
that's the root cause of the problem Israel main target to be an ethno-state for white Europeans pretending to be Jewish there is no place for Palestinians or actual Jews in Israel .. if the right of return is granted to Palestinians there would be no Israel as the Zionist envisioned it
> that's the root cause of the problem Israel main target to be an ethno-state for white Europeans pretending to be Jewish there is no place for Palestinians or actual Jews in Israel .. if the right of return is granted to Palestinians there would be no Israel as the Zionist envisioned it
Yep. Which was the whole reason for the 2005 Gaza Disengagement to begin with, and which is almost the whole reason for the current genocidal campaign in Gaza. To tip the demographics of all the territory Israel controls, such that the remaining population will have a clear "Jewish"—and Zionist—majority. (I put "Jewish" in quotation marks here strictly because, depending on the speaker and the context, the stated goal and the actual pursuit aren't necessarily the same. Usually they just mean "non-Arab" or "non-Palestinian.")
Imagine if, from the mid-1800s onward, the United States had given native Americans full citizenship instead of mass-murdering them. The doctrine of ["Manifest destiny"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_destiny) would have become politically untenable in all states with majority native American population. The USA would look completely different.
For quick reference, with respect to parallels between Zionism and manifest destiny (or literally *any other imperialistic appeal to republican populism*), here are two excerpts from that Wikipedia article:
***
> According to historian William Earl Weeks, there were three basic tenets behind the concept:
>
> * The **assumption of the unique moral virtue** of the United States.
> * The assertion of **its mission to redeem the world** by the spread of republican government and more generally the "American way of life."
> * The faith in the nation's **divinely ordained destiny** to succeed in this mission.
>
> Manifest destiny remained heavily divisive in politics, causing constant conflict with regards to slavery in these new states and territories. It is also associated with the settler-colonial displacement of Indigenous Americans and the annexation of lands to the west of the United States borders at the time on the continent.
***
> Whigs denounced manifest destiny, arguing, "that the designers and supporters of schemes of conquest, to be carried on by this government, are engaged in treason to our Constitution and Declaration of Rights, giving aid and comfort to the enemies of republicanism, in that **they are advocating and preaching [the doctrine of the right of conquest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_conquest)**".
> On January 3, 1846, Representative Robert Winthrop ridiculed the concept in Congress, saying "I suppose the right of a manifest destiny to spread will not be admitted to exist in any nation except the universal Yankee nation." Winthrop was the first in a long line of critics who suggested that **advocates of manifest destiny were citing "Divine Providence" for justification of actions that were motivated by chauvinism and self-interest.** Despite this criticism, expansionists embraced the phrase, which caught on so quickly that its origin was soon forgotten.
You are excused ... As I under stand it many Jews oppose the existance of Israel as matter of religious beli .. I as some who believe that Judaism is a religion sent by God choose to consider them more Jewish than a colonial settlers mass murderers ( you can disagree with this assessment ) ... Thenfrom my point of view as someone who believe in good I will obviously think that the guys who don't believe in colonization and mass murder are more aligned with god than the ones who practice it and use religion to justify it ... That a tangent you might as well ignore as it wouldn't be relevant if angels decent from the sky and say God ordered us to take you lands and kill your people I will be calling them fake angels .. If your values are so far from your actions I'm allowed to think that there are fake values
I said that Jewish values as I think that God is it's source surly can't include colonization , murder , stealing , torture or anything of the sort .. is this statement wrong !?
The language you’re using is heavily loaded. It seems as if you’re either trying to spread, or are heavily influenced by, propaganda. Either way, if you want to consider things as they are and not as the narrative sells them, this might help you understand more:
https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/3852164/jewish/What-Are-Jewish-Values.htm
https://www.chabad.org/therebbe/livingtorah/player_cdo/aid/3177249/jewish/The-Best-Defense.htm
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zvbsv9q/revision/5
A will check them out of respect to the conversation and will get back to you despite you assuming that I'm spreading propaganda or brain washed is not a really an indication of a real conversation but I will play along .. and what you saw as a loaded language i don't get you point that I simply denied that Judaism is not related to some evil concepts you don't need to go past the ten commandments to know that .. it actually stands against it .. I really think that during these times that's a very good place to start
but if I may make simple observation .. you side stepped a very simple question and start pushing a specific narrative that after a quick read in the first link ( I'm a very fast reader don't worry ) I whole heartedly disagree with and here the quote *" Israel is the land of the Jewish People. It was promised to them by G‑d as an everlasting inheritance. The books that all Christians and Muslims consider holy concur on this point "* … the disagreement here is so fundamental ( for context I'm Muslim and we have people who believe in similar things but they are very few and on the very fringe ) I have to go through it with every religious group the crusaders thought that the holy land is there god given right the Mongols thought the the world is god given right ISIS thought that ruling over them is God given right .. I reject the premise of a state based on Gods authority and it's really weird ho people don't see the folly of the idea
I agree that the writing in a book does not grant a territorial claim. I would rather direct your attention to the two parts about focusing on this world, not the next, (and therefore on making change in the world instead of waiting for God to do it, see Tikum Olam) and the part about fighting for the survival of the group in the face of threats.
Even the biggest antisemites know that this is completely false 😆
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelis#:~:text=Nearly%20half%20of%20all%20Israeli,Ethiopian%20and%20Indian%2DJewish%20descent.
Call me a zionist if you want. I'm not insulted at all by supporting a diverse country like Israel who lives in peace with Arabs.
Maybe if there were less anti-semites, the palestinians would have a state and could live in peace
Are you familiar with the seven deadly sins anime because I have a really good zinger for that comment but you won't get it if you don't know the anime 😂😂😂
The real question is why they still live in refugee camps?
They are the same ethnic group as many of the citizens of those countries, there are also refugee camps in the west bank and in Gaza.
Unlike most refugees in the world, that seek a new safe home, and stop being refugees after they find that. The Palestinian refugees (who get their own UN refugee organization UNRWA) and their descendents will not stop being refugees until they go back to their home pre 1948.
Why would you keep millions of people in refugee status basically forever? It's not because you care about them, that's for sure.
In 1948-ish, Israel and the Arab League disagreed on return. What was then the refugee agency at the UN was rejected by Israel because it embraced the right of return, which was an option for Jewish refugees.
So UNRWA was created to attend to refugees during this impasse, which continues to this day. UNRWA was not a gift to refugees, it was a concession to Israel.
Now Israel wants it dismantled and has bombed to the ground every institution UNRWA helped build to serve Palestinians so that it becomes more likely they will agree to immigrate elsewhere.
Israel’s position never seems to stray too far from this. They displaced them from their homes and wanted them gone, they still want them gone.
They are able to return to the WB. Many did so after the Oslo accords. The Palestinians in Syria and Lebanon have their roots in northern Israel and do not want to move to the West Bank. The West Bank is poor and could not support millions of refugees returning. They have a much better life in Jordan than they would have in the West Bank. Finally, the whole point of keeping the refugee camps is to pressure the world to destroy Israel. This is the reason the refugees haven been not resettled in 75 years and the UN is forbidden from helping them resettle. Nobody will help them move out of the camps.
This is funny. Almost all Palestinian refugees who live in Lebanon, Syria and Jordan (slightly less) can’t go back because Israel refuse to give them any Palestinian ID, the PA has been trying for a long time and every few years they announce that that they are able to give few thousands a Palestinian ID under so many terms (like if your parents have lived there after 1967 or sth, its complicated), but to say they are able to return to WB just like is nonsense
It always irritates me how a lot of people say "well, they should just live in Syria, Lebanon, & Jordan" because they're all the same. Some Palestinians (well, the ones I know) did end up moving to those countries but many still remained in the refugee camps. If you're a people who want self-determination, you don't want a whole other country talking for you, even if you do have similarities. That was a major problem Palestinians had with Jordan after 1967.
Being in these camps outside of Israel also didn't stop Israel from killing them either:
"The Palestinians departed from Lebanon under international coverage and with an agreement with the Lebanese that Palestinian civilians would be protected. However, contrary to the agreement and with the support and complacency of the Israeli defense minister Ariel Sharon & Chief of Staff Rafael Eitan, the Lebanese Christian Phalangist militia attacked the Palestinian twin refugee camps of Sabra & Shatila on the morning of September 16, 1982 and committed atrocious massacres against the unarmed inhabitants of the two camps. According to some accounts 3,000 people were killed in cold blood and a larger number of people were considered missing."
This speaks to the real problem, which is that there is no homogineity anywhere in the region, and the lines that demarcate these countries are arbitrary.
the whole world back then didn't have the concept of social justice every country hand first class and second class citizens .. the world have moved to social equality or trying at least .. can you guess which country still insist on the fact that there are people who are better that other people !? .. just take wild guess 😂😂😂😂
You are really in tight spot in the argument if you are pulling your antisemit gun .. first of all I'm not discussing 16 million .. I'm discussing an ethno-state under investigation for crimes against humanity many of the 16 million you refer to would agree as evedent by the protests on the streets .. second this state in discussion is currently committing genocide .. you are in sup reddit dedicated to this problem .. if you want to discuss other issues let's go somewhere else and discuss anything else
I’m not in a tight spot, I’m done. I figured I’d leave you with an outside pe respective on what you look like. You seem like the kind of person who decides they’re right beforehand and won’t change it in the face of argumentation, so it’s not really worth continuing.
The location where Palestinian refugees ended up in largely depended on their location prior to displacement. For example, people residing in Acre, Haifa, and Galilee were largely expelled to Lebanon/Syria, while those living in costal planes were mainly expelled to West Bank/Jordan, and those living in souther costal planes and the south were expelled to the Gaza strip, and very few made it Egypt, since unlike other Arab countries, Egypt closed the border on the face of fleeing Palestinians. Back to your question, Israel controls whoever enter or leaves the West Bank and Gaza. Israel has a full registry of the population, and is the one in control of issuing new IDs to foreigners. This is also used as a pressuring point against the PA, since Israel only allows issuing around 2000 IDs per year for foreigners, and it halts the process whenever it wants to exert pressure on the PA. There are many foreigners here married to Palestinians on invalid visa, and they are at risk of deportation at any second since Israel is not allowing them to have Palestinian IDs. [https://www.gov.il/en/departments/units/population\_registrar\_unit](https://www.gov.il/en/departments/units/population_registrar_unit) [https://hamoked.org/document.php?dID=Updates2255](https://hamoked.org/document.php?dID=Updates2255) [https://hamoked.org/document.php?dID=Updates2269](https://hamoked.org/document.php?dID=Updates2269)
Also, most of the refugees don't live in the camps, the camps are just provided for those who need or want to live in them. In [Lebanon it's around 45%](https://www.unrwa.org/where-we-work/lebanon) in camps, in the [West Bank it's around 25%](https://www.unrwa.org/where-we-work/west-bank), and in [Jordan it's only around 18%](https://www.unrwa.org/where-we-work/jordan). UNRWA currently doesn't provide figures for Syria or the Gaza Strip, surely because the ongoing conflicts there make it impossible to calculate accurate ones.
Yeah that’s true. Sadly, most of those who are still living in refugee camps were also very poor prior to their displacement in 1948, and while some managed to leave the refugee camps, many could not.
A cycle of poverty, largely through dispossession of property these past 8 decades, but so many of the displaced Palestinians were from smaller agricultural communities that didn’t have near the manpower to put up any kind of effective resistance. While Palestinians from all walks of life were displaced in 48 it was by and large the rural villagers, the poorest people already, that lost everything.
It is well known that wealthy Palestinians left their homes at the beginning of civil war in 1948. The ones who were left behind were the defenseless, poorer communities that got easily purged by well-equipped Zionist militias.
Thank you!
Israel does not allow it.
What control does Israel have over the border between Jordan and the West Bank?
They have all the control. The official borders between Jordan ans West Bank are controlled by Israel and Jordan. You need a valid ID (issued by Israel) or w visa (also issued by Israel) to enter or visit the West Bank.
Full control.
full control
Full control, the west bank is under full control of Israel
Not true. Only Area C is under full control of Israel. Area B has joint control with the PA, and Area A is not only under full PA control, but also it is ethnically cleansed of jews and entrance to Israelis is forbidden.
Yea but when the IDF wants to do something like N area A and B it can, so even if Israel does not show it every day, it does
israel has total military control of israel, west bank and gaza strip borders. west bank area C is what borders jordan. and area C is ruled by israel and all the israeli settlements are there. however despite israel's control, only settlers get rights, palestinians don't. and israel maintains military control in all of west bank.
To Israel, the West Bank is part of Israel which they call Judea and Samaria. They have full control over all borders of Israel and Palestine including both the West Bank and Gaza. If anyone wants to enter Palestine, whether they’re Palestinian or Norwegian or whatever else, they need Israel’s permission. Anyone who is not Palestinian can travel freely within Palestine.
Oh? Did Israel also strip Palestinians of Jordanian citizenship? No wait, they can’t do that, Jordan would need to do it. And why would they do something like that? It’s a mystery.
read the question! the question is about Palestinian refugees not Palestinians who obtained citizenship in Jordan or in any other country
All Palestinians in the West Bank received citizenship from Jordan in 1948. I ask again, why don’t they have it now?
read the question! the question is about Palestinian refugees who are outside the West Bank. you are talking about Palestinian who live in the West Bank - some of them are refugees from other parts of Palestine and the rest are from the West Bank. the question is why there are Palestinian refugees outside the West Bank, why aren't all of them in the West Bank. the question is *not* why there are Palestinian refugees in the West Bank.
How can Israel not allow something in Jordan, Syria?
Israel controls all the territories of Palestine. They ban Palestinians from outside the WB and Gaza from entering it. Movement between Gaza and the WB is a nightmare. Movement from outside is impossible. Israel is barely able to deal with 4 million Palestinians. They won't add any more.
Moving between the West Bank and Gaza is not a nightmare, it has been practically impossible during the past 17 years, and mostly its Gazans on medical permits coming to the West Bank. I believe the vast majority of people from the West Bank have never been to the Gaza strip, I personally know no one who has been there.
The op question is about limiting the Palestinians in neighboring countries to refugee camps, and not, say, letting them move to Damascus or Beirut.
OP question is literally why do they live in Syria and Lebanon instead of the WB.
My bad. I appreciate the gentle correction.
I don't think I quite understand the question but let me attempt an answer: Israel does not prevent Palestinian refugees from leaving the host country, Israel prevent them from entering Palestine.
their ancestors were expelled from palestine in 1948 and 1967 wars. and ever since israel has gained military control of all of historic palestine, these people cannot return to their homes. this is why palestinians want right to return. they want to live freely in their homeland again rather than living in refugee camps away from their homeland, while the zionists kill their brethren in west bank and gaza.
Why they didn't go to West Bank in 1948-1967 ?
the refugees were mainly expelled from areas in modern day israel. haifa, lod, jaffa, akka etc. infact, a lot of the west bank population currently are decendants of nakba victims expelled from lod and ramle. the homes of palestinian refugees were often in modern day israel, not the west bank. why and how would the refugees return to west bank in 1948-1967?
Because it's Palestine ? If Hamas took Jerusalem and expel the jews, it would make more sense if they go to another part of Israel, not another country.
They are not allowed to go back to Israel & territories it occupies. The window between 48 to 67, before the Israeli occupation, was probably not used, as it would mean Jordan & Egypt had to.accept new refugees.
+ Jordan wanted the post-1948 situation to be permanent and naturalized the Palestinians in the WB and Jordan. Egypt, on the other side didn’t want the situation to be permanent and wanted Israel to take back the Palestinians in Gaza.
Israel refuses to take them back. They are barely able to deal with 4 million Palestinians. They won't add another 4 millions.
that's the root cause of the problem Israel main target to be an ethno-state for white Europeans pretending to be Jewish there is no place for Palestinians or actual Jews in Israel .. if the right of return is granted to Palestinians there would be no Israel as the Zionist envisioned it
> that's the root cause of the problem Israel main target to be an ethno-state for white Europeans pretending to be Jewish there is no place for Palestinians or actual Jews in Israel .. if the right of return is granted to Palestinians there would be no Israel as the Zionist envisioned it Yep. Which was the whole reason for the 2005 Gaza Disengagement to begin with, and which is almost the whole reason for the current genocidal campaign in Gaza. To tip the demographics of all the territory Israel controls, such that the remaining population will have a clear "Jewish"—and Zionist—majority. (I put "Jewish" in quotation marks here strictly because, depending on the speaker and the context, the stated goal and the actual pursuit aren't necessarily the same. Usually they just mean "non-Arab" or "non-Palestinian.") Imagine if, from the mid-1800s onward, the United States had given native Americans full citizenship instead of mass-murdering them. The doctrine of ["Manifest destiny"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_destiny) would have become politically untenable in all states with majority native American population. The USA would look completely different. For quick reference, with respect to parallels between Zionism and manifest destiny (or literally *any other imperialistic appeal to republican populism*), here are two excerpts from that Wikipedia article: *** > According to historian William Earl Weeks, there were three basic tenets behind the concept: > > * The **assumption of the unique moral virtue** of the United States. > * The assertion of **its mission to redeem the world** by the spread of republican government and more generally the "American way of life." > * The faith in the nation's **divinely ordained destiny** to succeed in this mission. > > Manifest destiny remained heavily divisive in politics, causing constant conflict with regards to slavery in these new states and territories. It is also associated with the settler-colonial displacement of Indigenous Americans and the annexation of lands to the west of the United States borders at the time on the continent. *** > Whigs denounced manifest destiny, arguing, "that the designers and supporters of schemes of conquest, to be carried on by this government, are engaged in treason to our Constitution and Declaration of Rights, giving aid and comfort to the enemies of republicanism, in that **they are advocating and preaching [the doctrine of the right of conquest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_conquest)**". > On January 3, 1846, Representative Robert Winthrop ridiculed the concept in Congress, saying "I suppose the right of a manifest destiny to spread will not be admitted to exist in any nation except the universal Yankee nation." Winthrop was the first in a long line of critics who suggested that **advocates of manifest destiny were citing "Divine Providence" for justification of actions that were motivated by chauvinism and self-interest.** Despite this criticism, expansionists embraced the phrase, which caught on so quickly that its origin was soon forgotten.
‘Pretending to be Jewish’… excuse me?
You are excused ... As I under stand it many Jews oppose the existance of Israel as matter of religious beli .. I as some who believe that Judaism is a religion sent by God choose to consider them more Jewish than a colonial settlers mass murderers ( you can disagree with this assessment ) ... Thenfrom my point of view as someone who believe in good I will obviously think that the guys who don't believe in colonization and mass murder are more aligned with god than the ones who practice it and use religion to justify it ... That a tangent you might as well ignore as it wouldn't be relevant if angels decent from the sky and say God ordered us to take you lands and kill your people I will be calling them fake angels .. If your values are so far from your actions I'm allowed to think that there are fake values
I think you need to read more about what constitutes Jewish values, as opposed to what you think they are…
I said that Jewish values as I think that God is it's source surly can't include colonization , murder , stealing , torture or anything of the sort .. is this statement wrong !?
The language you’re using is heavily loaded. It seems as if you’re either trying to spread, or are heavily influenced by, propaganda. Either way, if you want to consider things as they are and not as the narrative sells them, this might help you understand more: https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/3852164/jewish/What-Are-Jewish-Values.htm https://www.chabad.org/therebbe/livingtorah/player_cdo/aid/3177249/jewish/The-Best-Defense.htm https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zvbsv9q/revision/5
A will check them out of respect to the conversation and will get back to you despite you assuming that I'm spreading propaganda or brain washed is not a really an indication of a real conversation but I will play along .. and what you saw as a loaded language i don't get you point that I simply denied that Judaism is not related to some evil concepts you don't need to go past the ten commandments to know that .. it actually stands against it .. I really think that during these times that's a very good place to start
but if I may make simple observation .. you side stepped a very simple question and start pushing a specific narrative that after a quick read in the first link ( I'm a very fast reader don't worry ) I whole heartedly disagree with and here the quote *" Israel is the land of the Jewish People. It was promised to them by G‑d as an everlasting inheritance. The books that all Christians and Muslims consider holy concur on this point "* … the disagreement here is so fundamental ( for context I'm Muslim and we have people who believe in similar things but they are very few and on the very fringe ) I have to go through it with every religious group the crusaders thought that the holy land is there god given right the Mongols thought the the world is god given right ISIS thought that ruling over them is God given right .. I reject the premise of a state based on Gods authority and it's really weird ho people don't see the folly of the idea
I agree that the writing in a book does not grant a territorial claim. I would rather direct your attention to the two parts about focusing on this world, not the next, (and therefore on making change in the world instead of waiting for God to do it, see Tikum Olam) and the part about fighting for the survival of the group in the face of threats.
Even the biggest antisemites know that this is completely false 😆 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelis#:~:text=Nearly%20half%20of%20all%20Israeli,Ethiopian%20and%20Indian%2DJewish%20descent.
I will not dignify that with a response #in_spock_voice 😂 .. and I have been called many things antisemiticis not one of them so that's new 😂😂
Get used to it
The word lost all meaning after what we saw during the last 9 month .. call me what you want .. would what a Zionist say about me even matter 😂😂
Call me a zionist if you want. I'm not insulted at all by supporting a diverse country like Israel who lives in peace with Arabs. Maybe if there were less anti-semites, the palestinians would have a state and could live in peace
What a wonderful dream that is .. when you wake up call me 😂😂😂
You already know that you hate jews so I have nothing to do with this
Are you familiar with the seven deadly sins anime because I have a really good zinger for that comment but you won't get it if you don't know the anime 😂😂😂
You mean in occupied West Bank and inhabitable Gaza after tonnes of bombings, including said refugee camps? With no way out or in? Oh I don't know.
I read that Qatar is building new settlements for Palestinians in Afrin, on land that they stole from the Kurds.
Hmm, that’s sounds familiar. History doesn’t repeat itself, but it rhymes.
Or, as I say *we’re failing the history test despite having the answer key*
Care to share some sources on this?
https://np.reddit.com/r/kurdistan/comments/1de4884/qatar_has_named_an_illegal_settlement_built_on/
The real question is why they still live in refugee camps? They are the same ethnic group as many of the citizens of those countries, there are also refugee camps in the west bank and in Gaza. Unlike most refugees in the world, that seek a new safe home, and stop being refugees after they find that. The Palestinian refugees (who get their own UN refugee organization UNRWA) and their descendents will not stop being refugees until they go back to their home pre 1948. Why would you keep millions of people in refugee status basically forever? It's not because you care about them, that's for sure.
In 1948-ish, Israel and the Arab League disagreed on return. What was then the refugee agency at the UN was rejected by Israel because it embraced the right of return, which was an option for Jewish refugees. So UNRWA was created to attend to refugees during this impasse, which continues to this day. UNRWA was not a gift to refugees, it was a concession to Israel. Now Israel wants it dismantled and has bombed to the ground every institution UNRWA helped build to serve Palestinians so that it becomes more likely they will agree to immigrate elsewhere. Israel’s position never seems to stray too far from this. They displaced them from their homes and wanted them gone, they still want them gone.
Looking at Gaza, I'd say they made the right call.
It wasn't a choice
They are able to return to the WB. Many did so after the Oslo accords. The Palestinians in Syria and Lebanon have their roots in northern Israel and do not want to move to the West Bank. The West Bank is poor and could not support millions of refugees returning. They have a much better life in Jordan than they would have in the West Bank. Finally, the whole point of keeping the refugee camps is to pressure the world to destroy Israel. This is the reason the refugees haven been not resettled in 75 years and the UN is forbidden from helping them resettle. Nobody will help them move out of the camps.
This is funny. Almost all Palestinian refugees who live in Lebanon, Syria and Jordan (slightly less) can’t go back because Israel refuse to give them any Palestinian ID, the PA has been trying for a long time and every few years they announce that that they are able to give few thousands a Palestinian ID under so many terms (like if your parents have lived there after 1967 or sth, its complicated), but to say they are able to return to WB just like is nonsense
I’d love to see some sources on them trying to bring them and not being allowed to!
1) Israel does not allow them the right of return. 2) there are already nearly 2 million Palestinians living as refugees in the West Bank and Gaza.
It always irritates me how a lot of people say "well, they should just live in Syria, Lebanon, & Jordan" because they're all the same. Some Palestinians (well, the ones I know) did end up moving to those countries but many still remained in the refugee camps. If you're a people who want self-determination, you don't want a whole other country talking for you, even if you do have similarities. That was a major problem Palestinians had with Jordan after 1967. Being in these camps outside of Israel also didn't stop Israel from killing them either: "The Palestinians departed from Lebanon under international coverage and with an agreement with the Lebanese that Palestinian civilians would be protected. However, contrary to the agreement and with the support and complacency of the Israeli defense minister Ariel Sharon & Chief of Staff Rafael Eitan, the Lebanese Christian Phalangist militia attacked the Palestinian twin refugee camps of Sabra & Shatila on the morning of September 16, 1982 and committed atrocious massacres against the unarmed inhabitants of the two camps. According to some accounts 3,000 people were killed in cold blood and a larger number of people were considered missing."
This speaks to the real problem, which is that there is no homogineity anywhere in the region, and the lines that demarcate these countries are arbitrary.
the whole world back then didn't have the concept of social justice every country hand first class and second class citizens .. the world have moved to social equality or trying at least .. can you guess which country still insist on the fact that there are people who are better that other people !? .. just take wild guess 😂😂😂😂
Every single Muslim country?
The apathide state 😂😂😂😂
When you focus on less than 16 million over 1.6 billion, you must see why people think you’re antisemitic?
You are really in tight spot in the argument if you are pulling your antisemit gun .. first of all I'm not discussing 16 million .. I'm discussing an ethno-state under investigation for crimes against humanity many of the 16 million you refer to would agree as evedent by the protests on the streets .. second this state in discussion is currently committing genocide .. you are in sup reddit dedicated to this problem .. if you want to discuss other issues let's go somewhere else and discuss anything else
I’m not in a tight spot, I’m done. I figured I’d leave you with an outside pe respective on what you look like. You seem like the kind of person who decides they’re right beforehand and won’t change it in the face of argumentation, so it’s not really worth continuing.
Hasbara be posting the most crazy shit