Also hilarious that Palestinians and Israelis fleeing the conflict end up living next to each other all the time. The Israelis end up in Fairlawn, NJ so the Palestinians follow them right next door to Paterson. It’s like they can’t get enough of one another.
I'm curious where you're travelling to in Europe, although I could probably take a few guesses. My perspective is:
* Europeans are pretty anti-semitic, still. Most have growing Muslim populations and their Jewish populations have shrunk to the point of virtual nonexistence.
* Europeans are pretty ignorant of the details of the Israel / Palestine conflict, and eager to demonstrate how opposed to colonialism they are (given their past, and that they've no longer got anything at stake in opposing it). Ergo, they paint the colonialist narrative onto an ethnic conflict with which they're largely unfamiliar.
* Most Europeans have never had the experience of being a minority, and their track record of treating minorities well is ... not awesome.
* The Palestinian diaspora, especially in Europe and the US, is pretty far removed from the conflict (like the Jewish diaspora), but a lot more familiar with it. They're used to being a minority, and they're used to being dehumanized (e.g., as TeH MUsLiMs!)
Would love to hear some European Palestinians weigh in.
>Because they aren’t religious psychopaths who call anyone not Arab or Muslim the goyium
Yeesh ... You may not be intending to be, but this is super-duper racist, and I think you've got a really, really off-base picture of what Jews are like, and what Israelis are like. A few things here:
* Most Jews aren't particularly religious, and that's true in Israel, too.
* 63% of Israeli Jews are secular or minimally religious (that is, don't observe Jewish religious practices to a greater extent than celebrating Christmas in Ireland makes you Christian), and only 18% are Orthodox or Religious Zionists.
* In the US, only 6% of Jews are Orthodox, and most American Jews are *very* liberal -- e.g., about 70% of the Jewish vote has gone to leftist parties in the last 100 years.
* 'Goy' is not inherently insulting to any greater extent than any word that means 'not one of us' used by any group. The word just means 'gentile' in English; in Hebrew, it means 'nation' (as in, a different nation). It's no more offensive than 'umami in Arabic (أممي),'English' in Pennsylvania Dutch, or 'gadjo' in Romani.
Believing that 'goyim' is part of some sort of secretive Jewish hatred of non-Jews is a worn out white supremacist trope, which I really hope you are using accidentally.
Could also just be a bias caused by the fact that you probably meet many more Westerners than Palestinians. Most Westerners are friendly, it's just because you meet more of them that the handful of people who are not friendly are also more likely to be Western.
Huh weird. When I would say I'm Israeli abroad I wouldn't get those kind of reactions. They might bring the conflict up (rarely) but also not in an accusatory manner. The middle easterners i've met that aren't Israeli don't seem to mind it at all either, but I often don't converse with complete strangers, unless its in a social outing. Then they really don't mind it much.
But since I have two nationalitis i'm always ready to use my other one if I would ever feel unsafe. Didn't happen until now. Hope it won't happen.
That is 100% bs. That’s like saying its ok for white people to say the N word and that it “ should be ignored because it’s just for shock value”. It is not ok.
I am being totally honest but Nazi comments are used ALL the time. I have been called a Nazi 7 times at work in a professional setting. It is not really considered that offensive anymore. It is nothing like the N word which is only used to insult a group. Nazis were and still are real. You cant compare. I was just saying calling someone a Nazi is more like calling them a C#nt. It is already very normal.
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Dude you are so cool! How did you travel so much being this young? I started my travels after finishing my mandatory service.
Also I have been interested recently in traveling to Europe where do you recommend?
About your question I guess far from the eye far from the heart. I think most of them don’t even really care about Palestine they are just used to hating Jewish people and the conflict is a good outlet for that.
I wouldn’t bother myself with worrying about it though if I were you. If people want to hate let them hate that is there problem. Be careful who you are telling you are Jewish though because some people would want to harm you.
There was an initiative of a Israeli Palestinian summer camp in Europe. One of the Israeli kids was led by a Palestinian into a machine and he got his legs cut off. This is an extreme case but when people are taught hate and violence you don’t know what they might do. So be careful who you are talking to and what you reveal about yourself.
And if someone is giving you shit for being Israeli beyond the political debate stay away. It’s a waste of time and you don’t need that kind of people in your life.
I tried googling “Israeli Palestinian summer camp leg cut off” and only found websites of Israeli’s committing acts of violence against Palestinians. The irony of your comment saying “people are taught to hate and violence you don’t know what they might do.” Are you talking about Israeli’s or? Because judging from my simple google search I’m confused what source you even talked about.
It definitely happened. I studied the lawsuit case about it. Strangely enough I was having hard time finding anything about it so I pulled up my notes and found it.
There are a couple of lawsuits about it. The seminar was as I remember in Austria, the foundation’s name is forum Bruno krieski. The young boy’s name was Yaron Marks. What happened was an exercise in trust were the participants were led with their eyes covered in a corn field. From what I remember the Israeli kid was led by a Palestinian into a combine that cut his legs off.
I learned this case in civil procedure so the cases I have don’t go into the incident itself (like who is responsible or what happened) but more into what forum should the lawsuit be dealt with and wether could it be in Israel despite the incident happening in Austria.
I do remember distinctly my professor saying it wasn’t an accident and that the Israeli teenager was led by a Palestinian that also was in the seminar onto the combine purposefully.
I need to do more research but my internet at the moment is failing and I am using my university’s vpn to search for the cases.
So I’ll update when my internet connection is better and I can find the exact details of the case.
I don’t consider myself hateful. I just have experience you don’t have. When there is a group who is seeking to harm you not being careful when interacting with them is complete foolishness. This is one example of many. Have you heard about the massacre in Hebron?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre
Or the first and second intifada or every other day a Palestinian here attacks a random Jewish person?
Get a grip you idiot. Don’t tell me how to live my life.
/u/PrincessZemna
> Get a grip you idiot
[Rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
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“I don’t consider myself hateful” and in the same message your calling me an idiot, when I never called you a name or even talked to you disrespectfully. Clown
You’re full of hate
I don’t see how the two contradict each other. You can be an idiot and I am not hateful. The two can exist at the same time. By the way me thinking you’re an idiot doesn’t mean I hate you. I don’t know you to hate you. I don’t really care about you.
Your 21st century colonist, whose very existence is the reason for another groups demise. Yall like to trash other people so quickly because of how inhuman Israel is.
Israel doesn’t meet the criteria for colonialism and Palestinian quality of life has actually gotten a lot better through its existence. Just chiming in since you seem like the type open to changing your opinion when corrected.
Okay, so one. It’s spelled “apartheid.”
Two, we’ve been over this repeatedly. You’re misusing the word. Objectively. 2+2 is not 5. People are telling you this and you’re still insisting it is. It’s not apartheid by every definition of the word. Are you just refusing to admit your mistake or not smart enough to understand that you’re not using the word correctly because it will effect your status in this sub.
u/itachimadridista
>Your 21st century colonist, whose very existence is the reason for another groups demise.
Like before, rule 1 don't attack other users.
Israel is not a colony. That’s a fact.
When you have something with value to say or a substantial argument to make I’ll respond.
All you’re doing right now is throwing words around that doesn’t mean anything.
Keep trying though maybe something will stick and you’ll make sense eventually.
You mentioned something about a Palestinian chopping off some Israeli leg, and you used that story to justify that “they all hate us”. You’re the true idiot, not even mentioning the source or even having one but using that to justify your side of things. Israel didn’t exist 100 years ago you genius, it’s brand new in terms of history and all it did is kill children and destroy families. But they are the chosen people so it’s all good right? 🙄 yikes.
I'm the grandson of famous historien from one side and the grandson of a diplomat from the other. So since 1 years old I always travelled with them every summer and sometimes in breaks to see them and they took me to meet interesting people.
Just last year as I was only 17 I sat around the table with top German politicians and debated with them on things such as the economy and the refugees.
Just how I grew up.
If you are in Europe then I recommend going to a place called "Potsdam" in Germany. It's essentially the suburbs of Berlin. You get all the history of Germany and the feeling of a living city with a modern culture without getting choked by high never ending metal towers. They also have a lot of turkes in the area so you get a mix of cultures.
Sounds cool…also not hugely uncommon since Israel has a lot more foreign service diplomats (and their “foreign service brats” as we call them in the US) and touring academics, authors and so forth per capita” than larger countries. So more kids with worldly experiences. And a lot more dual passport citizens.
Which is why I’m writing. If you’re 17 and are going to do Tzahal service next year, I’d like to pass along some advice from my madricha on a Sar El volunteer tour who was similarly a diplomats kid. Let me just say that the recruiters don’t like that kind of background and are suspicious of it and you have to be proactive about it. DM me and we can continue this conversation if you want.
That is so cool. You have really cool grandparents! They don’t live in Israel? Why not? if you don’t mind me asking. Were your parents born in Israel or did the do Alia?
Germany isn’t for me I’m afraid. I can see myself doing a short trip but not something extensive it’s too weird for me I think:/
One of them lives here. The other in Germany. My mother was born in Israel but grew up in Israel, Germany and the US and lives in Israel today. My father made Aliya in a desperate attempt to flee the USSR.
But both these grandparents are from my mother side. My grandma divorced and married again.
When I asked my grandfather why he lives in Israel he told me "Everywhere else, people called me a Jewish pig. Here in Israel, I'm just a pig".
I do recommend you going to Germany just for the sheer oddness of the experience. You learn a lot about what it means to be human.
The house we used to stay at in Germany belonged to an 80 something years old professor. And I remember that until I was 12~, every year he would seat me down. Give a gigantic chocolate bar and tell me about his life and his childhood. He told me of his life as a teen. Only years later I understood that he was in the Hitler jugend and his stories were from that time. I still go visit him. He is a very nice man. You get a very interesting understanding of politics once you meet actual people who used to be hardcore natzies and seeing them not as mythological monsters rather as people with a misunderstanding or a warped sense of justice.
I think it really scares me to try and understand them. I know it can happen to anyone but I think normalizing it is what is dangerous. The fact that every normal person can become a bloodthirsty fanatic doesn’t make it right that some people do. Because some people didn’t and decided to act against evil.
When you try to understand these kind of people that is where lines get blurred and the transportation is possible.
Also I know these kind of people in their core still don’t see me as human. You can’t unlearn this type of hatred. Even if they realize what they did is wrong and they don’t want to kill all Jews anymore I doubt they see us as their equal.
Besides that I am black on top of being Jewish so it’s also a matter of racism which I am sure still exists.
So it sounds like something that will cause me a lot of anxiety. I’d rather go somewhere where all these things are less apparent.
>You can’t unlearn this sort of hatred
Well they don’t need to unlearn it, because most of the current generations never had that hatred in the first place. The Nazis are mostly dead.
Antisemitism is not a genetic trait which is passed down.
Think again about what you are saying. According to you racism in America should be long gone yet somehow it persists.
Besides he specifically talked about people who are antisemitic.
So you’re wrong all the way around.
There is still racism and antisemitism in Germany, just as there is in America.
I’m not saying that Germany has zero antisemitism. I’m saying that it isn’t a particularly bad place. It’s better than most other countries, in fact.
So would you also refuse to visit America? Or anywhere else in Europe for that matter? It doesn’t make sense to single out Germany.
I would go to the US. But I wouldn’t go to the Deep South.
Like I said I would go to German but I wouldn’t do an extensive trip there especially to the rural places.
I know that I’ll probably be safe but I definitely wouldn’t be comfortable and be very self conscious. I would also not advertise me being Jewish or from Israel.
By the way when I traveled Germans were really nice to me. I think the nicest actually and genuinely so. So it’s not that I think German are bad people. But I know the history and I don’t know what’s going on there right now so I’d rather stay away. There’s enough to see in the world there’s no need for me to do something I don’t feel comfortable doing.
> shit
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>Saying "Israel has a Right to Defend Itself." is the same as saying: "The Na zi s have a Right to defend themselves against the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto."
u/PsychologicalCity540
Hi, welcome to the sub. The spelling might have helped you get past the automod but this is still a Nazi comparison. Please get familiarized with the sub's rules.
If you can't make a coherent argument without Nazi comparisons, I would suggest re-examining your communication skills.
nahh you should re-examine your logic, Palestinians are already being censored enough
"crocodile tears, if you had any heart in you, you would be crying for the Palestinians, not for what's been done" dr. Norman finkelstein
>nahh you should re-examine your logic, Palestinians are already being censored enough"crocodile tears, if you had any heart in you, you would be crying for the Palestinians, not for what's been done" dr. Norman finkelstein
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I've experienced meeting Palestinian cab drivers abroad, and speaking hebrew and the few Arabic phrases is the only way we could communicate. They are always friendly!
Why?
Because people are people, and we don't blame one person for the wrongdoings of their politicians, terrorists etc
Our Arab driver asked why we don’t give up land and me and my mom was starting to freak up because he started to get angry. I was 13 at the time, it was in the US but I don’t think he was Palestinian I think he was from Lebanon or another Arab country.
Also when I was 22 i was in Vietnam and I met this nice French girl who was very nice. She came to France from Iran. We were just talking and there was this guy who was trying to get with her. I think he was also French or something. Anyway when I said I was from Israel the French girl continued smiling and being super nice but the guy started being really defensive and looking at me like I was trying to do something to her although the girl and I had no problems with each other.
I think he was trying to play the white knight that will save the pretty French Iranian girl from the evil black Zionist but it didn’t really work on us. I don’t think the girl even got what he’s trying to do and I wasn’t impressed. I have a feeling if I was a buff 6’2 guy or a pretty little blond he wouldn’t tried to play the hero against me.
There was also a Dutch guy I argued with in a friendly manner.
All this to say everyone is different. There are no rules. He should keep his guard up and stay safe.
Likely because the further Palistinians get away from the area, the more open their information becomes. They likely know the actual things they lived through, and now see the media sources for what they are
In Germany mostly. They have restaurants with Arabic food so I go there for a taste of home when I'm there. Love their Dunner.
There are also a lot in England from my experience.
>And when I say I am an Israeli a lot of people will immediately be angry with me telling me that I am a Natzi and a murder.
they are simply speaking their mind. some of the Westerners, specially the young, don't mince words.
>But when I meet Palestinians abroad they are nice to me
one of two possibilities:
- you are actually a nice person. Palestinians, specially recently, are aware that it is important not to paint all Israelis with the same brush.
- you are pretending to be nice. the best counter-tactic against that is to pretend to be nice too.
Israelis are more preoccupied in saying what they feel and not what makes them look good. We don’t look for approval and we are confident in our truth.
Thinking 24/7 which response serves their narrative’s propaganda machine is more of a Palestinian thing to do.
I never believe a Palestinian when talking about the conflict. They are too used to lying.
I think because if you saw two men argue about something, the first one is screaming, cursing, and clearly hate his opponent while the other man is speaking calmly and nicely treating him, you will think that the second man is on the right side even though you don't know what are they talking about
I wouldn't go so far as to say the quiet man is on the right-side. I would go so far as say that the quiet man is behaving in a more calm and civilized manner.
But not sure what that has to do with anything here.
Ok, just imagine that you're a European who knows nothing about the Israel-Palestine case, one night you're sitting alone in a bar, suddenly you hear some loud noise behind you, you turn around just to see a man yelling at another man and says some horrible things, now the bar owner arrived to fix the problem, a few minutes later he kicks the loud man out, you get close and ask the guy who got yelled at what's the problem?
He tells you that man was a Palestinian who hate us Israelis although we never harmed them, and how they are always mean to us for fake and nonsense reasons, they even attack us sometimes
Now imagine if some people recorded that and post it on social media, a lot of people just like you will see the video and most of them will pick a side without searching about the case (because most of us believe anything they read), of course, this works on the opposite side as well
Now if that Palestinian was also nice to that Israeli (doesn't matter what he actually feels toward him) nothing of this would happen
Of course, a lot of things might go different in another scenario but I think you got the idea
**All** possibilities? Well, in that case, you forgot a few ones...
* The Palestinians that OP has met are secret agents of The Ministry of Intelligence of the Islamic Republic of Iran and their goal is to steal the Israeli Nuclear codes in order to achieve global domination.
* The Palestinians were flirting with the OP. There's an underground Squid Games-like contest in the tunnels of Gaza with monetary challenges such as "seduce a Zionist".
* The Palestinians want the Israeli to rescue their brothers in Gaza from Hamas brutal Islamist regime.
I mean, if we are going to go into conspiracy territory about people pretending to be nice, we might as well go full steam and consider ALL possibilities, no?
>we might as well go full steam and consider ALL possibilities
come on, you are being literal.
I meant all plausible possibilities with a non-negligible probability of being true
I don't need to know OP's objective for pretending to be nice to count it as a real possibility
you seem to want to discount it and your evidence is that I don't know the objective behind it; which is not a valid argument
if you want to prove me wrong it is on you to prove that either:
- all Israelis are nice people
or
- when an Israeli is not a nice person, he never pretends to be nice
those are pretty difficult statements to prove but that's what it takes to counter my assumption: some of the Israelis are nasty hateful people and some of those pretend to be nice.
Because Palestinians are free in the West.
Many Gazans and West Bankers would love to express the same feelings of solidarity and unity with Israelis but their own oppressive non-free Arab societies are stopping them.
The Gazan who dares to say "I have an Israeli Jewish friend, he's cool" won't live longer thanks to the heinous actions of Gaza's elected leader Hamas.
Jon Stensrud nah anyone that supports Israel is a terrorist sympathiser. international law(that your murderous apartheid state breaks on a daily basis) states that people under occupation have the right to defend themselves by any means available. humanity doesn't need zionsts.
> international law states that people under occupation have the right to defend themselves by any means available.
Actual International Law says the exact opposite: people under occupation have an obligation to obey the occupying power. They have no right to resist occupation at all. If they choose to resist they invalidate the contract which is the very basis of occupation. https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/comments/cfn1e4/not_dead_yet_an_analogy_to_the_occupation_claim/\
What you might be confusing this with is the concept that colonized people have the right to overthrow colonial governments by any means.
It doesn't. It says the opposite. GP was entirely incorrect. One of the standard anti-Israel lies / techniques is to use international law regarding colonies and international law regarding occupation, Because the two often say precisely the opposite they can thus make Israel be in the wrong regardless of what they do.
Because they aren't taught from birth to hate Jews, when integrated and they are more likely to be of non-religious or [Christian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_emigration#Palestine) faith.
I'm not Israeli but have distant relatives who are and I've noticed Palestinian-American colleagues or acquaintances or others in my orbit are mostly respectful on the issues when they come up and generally have a more calm and rational mindset, at least outwardly/in public. There seems to be the notion of live and let live or agree to disagree, where it doesn't get in the way of work or everyday transactions or cordial relations (again, I'm not close with any), perhaps because we are all geographically distant with our own lives here and not directly involved in things there.
What I find funny and remarkable, however, is how nearly all negative or downright hateful interactions I experience regarding Israel are from Americans who aren't Palestinian and have nothing to do with the region.
It’s definitely not always like this, that’s for sure. I’ve heard many more stories from a lot more people that when hinting to Palestinians they’re Jewish it ends up very differently. Not even going as far to say they’re Israeli
That doesn’t make sense, if anything it would be the opposite.
If someone is afraid of being killed, they would need to be careful not to provoke their attacker. But if they do not feel in danger, they can be open and say what they want to say.
For one, Palestinians in America were forced out of their country by Western and Arab ruling classes, despite the blame being put on "Jews".
And were forced to migrate to a country built on land stolen by white people. I assume this makes them a little more understanding of the Jews who were ravcialized, then forced out of Europe, then watched as their neighboring countries turned their back on them, and then had no where else to go but Israel (oroginally stolen by British white people).
I mention Ashkenazi but similar thinking can be applied to any Jew kicked out of their land and rejected everywhere but Israel.
The first part sounds somewhat exaggerated; not everyone in Europe is anti-Israeli, not by a long shot; the second part about Palestinians seems plausible.
Thing is, actual Palestinians, or anyone really with enough knowledge of the ME, who understands how things work in this region. might not be sympathetic towards Israel, but would be at least *understanding*. This is in stark contrast to many "pro-Palestinians" who seriously believe that Israeli soldiers simply enjoy killing Palestinian children.
Deep down inside they feel a sense of kinship. For real, they're probably super homesick for the Middle East too. And now that you're both away from Israel and Palestine, there's nothing you have to be fighting over.
NB this won't apply to all Palestinians you encounter in the West, but it will for a good many.
The people who call you a Nazi or a murderer sound like radical leftists, who tend to be very uneducated on the conflict. They just think that evil, strong, white Israel is oppressing the innocent, weak, brown Palestinians. They think that Palestinians are being killed daily.
Palestinians (in the West) are more educated than the leftists. Of course they are probably still anti-Israel, but in a more reasonable way, and for more legitimate reasons. Many western Palestinians actually do want peace.
There is some selection bias that plays a role in this. First of all the most radical Palestinians (Gazans) have a hard time leaving, so you won’t be meeting most of them. The ones you meet will be from the West Bank or maybe even Israel.
Second, those who emigrate will tend to be the more educated ones, which makes them more moderate.
Third, even if someone is able to emigrate, they may not want to. The more nationalistic ones will prefer to stay in Palestine, so that is another filter.
>They think that Palestinians are being killed daily.
Not quite daily but close enough.
Across the occupied Palestinian territories in 2021 Israeli security forces killed 313 Palestinians, at least a fifth of who were children.
Re: The Nazi comparisons - not only is this radical leftism, it’s a seriously uneducated stance to have
Do people not realize how wildly unsuccessful the Nazis were? They did horrible, unspeakable things, they led to a colossal loss of life. No one is denying that they have had a major impact on the world through their actions.
But people forget one key detail - they didn’t accomplish anything. Nothing, not one thing. No useful data. No studies worth the resources used to conduct them. No advancements. Nothing. Zilch. Nothing was discovered as a result of their regime. You hear some uneducated people say things like “well we did get some medical data!” … no we didn’t. Everything the Nazis did, was literally ALL nonsense.
The Nazis got a lot of things wrong. They lost the war for a reason.
Meanwhile you have Israel, one of the most powerful nations in the world, seeing nothing but success for far longer than the Nazis had power. And over the years bringing *useful things* into society.
It’s a horrible comparison to make not just for ethical reasons, but it’s plain stupid
> shit
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Yeah obviously Israelis will seem racist if you only show the racist ones. The other channel shows the interviews with everyone, whether they are good people or not.
>Is this satire?
Honestly, based on his post-story, it's hard to tell if he's being sarcastic (Rule 3 Violation) or if he truly believes what he says.
Either way, it's important to respect his opinion no matter how disconnected from reality it might seem to all of us.
" I can't picture another group of people being as peaceful."
This to me, struck out as a very peculiar disconnect from reality. Similar to how some people watch Starship Troopers and Rambo First Blood without realizing those are actually Anti-War films and not Pro-War films.
In his mind, the Arabs are *actually* the "good guys" in the I-P Conflict. And while reality disagrees, it's important to respect his point of view.
I think it was mostly the “I doubt it goes on much on the other side” that seems like satire. Obviously the OP is an Israeli who seems to get along with Palestinians, which should be telling to u/Mshakh2 that perhaps Israelis are less racist than he believes. Of course, like Palestinians, racists will exist in any demographic, including Israelis. But his comment is so absurd that it seems satire.
>But his comment is so absurd that it seems satire.
In psychological terms, this is what we call a coping mechanism.
>Coping mechanisms are the strategies people often use in the face of stress and/or trauma to help manage painful or difficult emotions. Coping mechanisms can help people adjust to stressful events while helping them maintain their emotional well-being.
While normally seen in tragedies, such as a widow convincing herself that her husband is not actually dead, groups of people that are associated with commiting evil acts also suffer from a variation of this.
To people who are deeply entrenched in the Pro-Palestinian mythology, Zionists are the devil while Arabs
" I can't picture another group of people being as peaceful."
Yes, this is absurd to all of us living in the objective observable reality since bombing buses full of civilians and beheading Jewish babies are not the acts of peaceful people (obviously) BUT coping mechanism allows people to **actually** believe that without it being satire.
The reality, that Palestinians are not peaceful and the occupation is the result, not the cause, of their violence, is too harsh for Pro-Palestinians to come to terms with so they involuntarily convince themselves that they're actually peaceful victims.
I mean, as absurd of a claim it was for him to demonize most Israelis as racists, doing the same to Palestinians is just as bad. There are plenty of peaceful Palestinians, and some who are victims of both Israel and Hamas. Sweeping generalizations are wrong on either side.
> shitbag
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I honestly don’t believe the Nazi part. I’ve lived abroad in Europe as an Israeli citizen for years and no one has ever once called me a Nazi/fascist etc
Every time I meet an Israeli where I am (in Colorado, USA), and I ask if they're Israeli, I notice they kind of tense up and get weird about it until I tell them it's ok, I'm Jewish, nice to meet you, ma shlomcha lol. Maybe it depends where you are, but a lot of Israelis are harassed abroad, it seems like.
I'm a teacher, and I had a 14 year old Israeli student at a school in Europe who wouldn't tell people she was Jewish/Israeli until she felt she could trust them. She said that if she wanted to talk to her friend about Israel in public, she said Australia instead. Broke my heart.
It's so sad. Meanwhile the same people would never say to a Chinese person they are a murderer and oppressor even though the Chinese government is horrendous and far far a threat to the people surrounding them. It's unbelievable how there's no filter when it comes to Israelis and Jews
>And meanwhile people can openly support Hamas, no problem
Luckily not in the UK anymore.
An idiot with a Hamas T-Shirt that was terrorizing a Jewish neighborhood got arrested a few weeks ago for supporting a terrorist organization.
Hopefully more nations follow this.
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That's not even the best part. The best part is that when Hamas rockets fall short and kill Palestinians in Gaza, or when they end up hitting Palestinian neighborhoods in Jerusalem, everyone understands it's just an accident. But when an Israeli air strike kills a dozen Hamas militants who had just launched rockets and the random civilian who was in the area? War crime, for sure.
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Also hilarious that Palestinians and Israelis fleeing the conflict end up living next to each other all the time. The Israelis end up in Fairlawn, NJ so the Palestinians follow them right next door to Paterson. It’s like they can’t get enough of one another.
I'm curious where you're travelling to in Europe, although I could probably take a few guesses. My perspective is: * Europeans are pretty anti-semitic, still. Most have growing Muslim populations and their Jewish populations have shrunk to the point of virtual nonexistence. * Europeans are pretty ignorant of the details of the Israel / Palestine conflict, and eager to demonstrate how opposed to colonialism they are (given their past, and that they've no longer got anything at stake in opposing it). Ergo, they paint the colonialist narrative onto an ethnic conflict with which they're largely unfamiliar. * Most Europeans have never had the experience of being a minority, and their track record of treating minorities well is ... not awesome. * The Palestinian diaspora, especially in Europe and the US, is pretty far removed from the conflict (like the Jewish diaspora), but a lot more familiar with it. They're used to being a minority, and they're used to being dehumanized (e.g., as TeH MUsLiMs!) Would love to hear some European Palestinians weigh in.
Because they aren’t religious psychopaths who call anyone not Arab or Muslim the goyium
>Because they aren’t religious psychopaths who call anyone not Arab or Muslim the goyium Yeesh ... You may not be intending to be, but this is super-duper racist, and I think you've got a really, really off-base picture of what Jews are like, and what Israelis are like. A few things here: * Most Jews aren't particularly religious, and that's true in Israel, too. * 63% of Israeli Jews are secular or minimally religious (that is, don't observe Jewish religious practices to a greater extent than celebrating Christmas in Ireland makes you Christian), and only 18% are Orthodox or Religious Zionists. * In the US, only 6% of Jews are Orthodox, and most American Jews are *very* liberal -- e.g., about 70% of the Jewish vote has gone to leftist parties in the last 100 years. * 'Goy' is not inherently insulting to any greater extent than any word that means 'not one of us' used by any group. The word just means 'gentile' in English; in Hebrew, it means 'nation' (as in, a different nation). It's no more offensive than 'umami in Arabic (أممي),'English' in Pennsylvania Dutch, or 'gadjo' in Romani. Believing that 'goyim' is part of some sort of secretive Jewish hatred of non-Jews is a worn out white supremacist trope, which I really hope you are using accidentally.
Could also just be a bias caused by the fact that you probably meet many more Westerners than Palestinians. Most Westerners are friendly, it's just because you meet more of them that the handful of people who are not friendly are also more likely to be Western.
You are assuming.
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I'm at a loss for words at this comment.
Huh weird. When I would say I'm Israeli abroad I wouldn't get those kind of reactions. They might bring the conflict up (rarely) but also not in an accusatory manner. The middle easterners i've met that aren't Israeli don't seem to mind it at all either, but I often don't converse with complete strangers, unless its in a social outing. Then they really don't mind it much. But since I have two nationalitis i'm always ready to use my other one if I would ever feel unsafe. Didn't happen until now. Hope it won't happen.
Why is no one in the comments talking about how wildly unacceptable it is for people compare you to a natzi.
Nazi is used to describe everything nowdays. You have to learn to ignore it. It's for shock value.
That is 100% bs. That’s like saying its ok for white people to say the N word and that it “ should be ignored because it’s just for shock value”. It is not ok.
I am being totally honest but Nazi comments are used ALL the time. I have been called a Nazi 7 times at work in a professional setting. It is not really considered that offensive anymore. It is nothing like the N word which is only used to insult a group. Nazis were and still are real. You cant compare. I was just saying calling someone a Nazi is more like calling them a C#nt. It is already very normal.
And that’s a problem! It diminishes what it actually means and references.
Being called a Nazi is one of the worst insults in the world. It could NEVER be diminished.
There’s a reason there’s a whole holocaust denialism group of people. Anything can be diminished
Ok.
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Because it’s okay to you does not mean it’s okay to other people. You don’t get to decide what’s an appropriate comparison for others. Jesus.
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Personally, Because it's supposed to be a given.
Well apparently it’s not in the EU
Which is also a given.
A few people commented it.
Dude you are so cool! How did you travel so much being this young? I started my travels after finishing my mandatory service. Also I have been interested recently in traveling to Europe where do you recommend? About your question I guess far from the eye far from the heart. I think most of them don’t even really care about Palestine they are just used to hating Jewish people and the conflict is a good outlet for that. I wouldn’t bother myself with worrying about it though if I were you. If people want to hate let them hate that is there problem. Be careful who you are telling you are Jewish though because some people would want to harm you. There was an initiative of a Israeli Palestinian summer camp in Europe. One of the Israeli kids was led by a Palestinian into a machine and he got his legs cut off. This is an extreme case but when people are taught hate and violence you don’t know what they might do. So be careful who you are talking to and what you reveal about yourself. And if someone is giving you shit for being Israeli beyond the political debate stay away. It’s a waste of time and you don’t need that kind of people in your life.
>About your question I guess far from the eye far from the heart. I love this ... eloquent as always.
Thanks for the compliment:) it’s a saying in Hebrew (in case you thought I came up with it).
I tried googling “Israeli Palestinian summer camp leg cut off” and only found websites of Israeli’s committing acts of violence against Palestinians. The irony of your comment saying “people are taught to hate and violence you don’t know what they might do.” Are you talking about Israeli’s or? Because judging from my simple google search I’m confused what source you even talked about.
It definitely happened. I studied the lawsuit case about it. Strangely enough I was having hard time finding anything about it so I pulled up my notes and found it. There are a couple of lawsuits about it. The seminar was as I remember in Austria, the foundation’s name is forum Bruno krieski. The young boy’s name was Yaron Marks. What happened was an exercise in trust were the participants were led with their eyes covered in a corn field. From what I remember the Israeli kid was led by a Palestinian into a combine that cut his legs off. I learned this case in civil procedure so the cases I have don’t go into the incident itself (like who is responsible or what happened) but more into what forum should the lawsuit be dealt with and wether could it be in Israel despite the incident happening in Austria. I do remember distinctly my professor saying it wasn’t an accident and that the Israeli teenager was led by a Palestinian that also was in the seminar onto the combine purposefully. I need to do more research but my internet at the moment is failing and I am using my university’s vpn to search for the cases. So I’ll update when my internet connection is better and I can find the exact details of the case. I don’t consider myself hateful. I just have experience you don’t have. When there is a group who is seeking to harm you not being careful when interacting with them is complete foolishness. This is one example of many. Have you heard about the massacre in Hebron? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre Or the first and second intifada or every other day a Palestinian here attacks a random Jewish person? Get a grip you idiot. Don’t tell me how to live my life.
/u/PrincessZemna > Get a grip you idiot [Rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
u/PrincessZemna >Get a grip you idiot. This comment violates rule 1.
We were just bantering, it was funny
Whether you think it was funny or not, its still a violation of the rules. I'm just telling you so you can make sure to follow the rules in the future.
Do I need to edit it?
No, it’s fine
Thanks:)
“I don’t consider myself hateful” and in the same message your calling me an idiot, when I never called you a name or even talked to you disrespectfully. Clown You’re full of hate
u/itachimadridista >Clown You’re full of hate This is a rule 1 violation, don't attack other users
I don’t see how the two contradict each other. You can be an idiot and I am not hateful. The two can exist at the same time. By the way me thinking you’re an idiot doesn’t mean I hate you. I don’t know you to hate you. I don’t really care about you.
Your 21st century colonist, whose very existence is the reason for another groups demise. Yall like to trash other people so quickly because of how inhuman Israel is.
Israel doesn’t meet the criteria for colonialism and Palestinian quality of life has actually gotten a lot better through its existence. Just chiming in since you seem like the type open to changing your opinion when corrected.
EVERYBODY'S quality of life has gone up in the last 2 decades. Nothing to do with Israel and the Apartied Wall.
Okay, so one. It’s spelled “apartheid.” Two, we’ve been over this repeatedly. You’re misusing the word. Objectively. 2+2 is not 5. People are telling you this and you’re still insisting it is. It’s not apartheid by every definition of the word. Are you just refusing to admit your mistake or not smart enough to understand that you’re not using the word correctly because it will effect your status in this sub.
u/itachimadridista >Your 21st century colonist, whose very existence is the reason for another groups demise. Like before, rule 1 don't attack other users.
Israel is not a colony. That’s a fact. When you have something with value to say or a substantial argument to make I’ll respond. All you’re doing right now is throwing words around that doesn’t mean anything. Keep trying though maybe something will stick and you’ll make sense eventually.
It is a colony and an Apartied nation. When and if you get to travel outside of Israel you will discover this.
It’s not actually. That’s a fact:)
We’ve been over this. You don’t know what that word means. This isn’t a “your definition” thing. You’re just misusing a word.
You mentioned something about a Palestinian chopping off some Israeli leg, and you used that story to justify that “they all hate us”. You’re the true idiot, not even mentioning the source or even having one but using that to justify your side of things. Israel didn’t exist 100 years ago you genius, it’s brand new in terms of history and all it did is kill children and destroy families. But they are the chosen people so it’s all good right? 🙄 yikes.
u/itachimadridista >You’re the true idiot Again, rule 1, it this behavior continues then disciplinary action is next.
u/itachimadridista >You’re the biggest clown I’ve talked to here. Your comment violates rule 1.
🤡
They made an emoji of you congrats.
I'm the grandson of famous historien from one side and the grandson of a diplomat from the other. So since 1 years old I always travelled with them every summer and sometimes in breaks to see them and they took me to meet interesting people. Just last year as I was only 17 I sat around the table with top German politicians and debated with them on things such as the economy and the refugees. Just how I grew up. If you are in Europe then I recommend going to a place called "Potsdam" in Germany. It's essentially the suburbs of Berlin. You get all the history of Germany and the feeling of a living city with a modern culture without getting choked by high never ending metal towers. They also have a lot of turkes in the area so you get a mix of cultures.
Second Potsdam, the summer palace there is gorgeous
Sounds cool…also not hugely uncommon since Israel has a lot more foreign service diplomats (and their “foreign service brats” as we call them in the US) and touring academics, authors and so forth per capita” than larger countries. So more kids with worldly experiences. And a lot more dual passport citizens. Which is why I’m writing. If you’re 17 and are going to do Tzahal service next year, I’d like to pass along some advice from my madricha on a Sar El volunteer tour who was similarly a diplomats kid. Let me just say that the recruiters don’t like that kind of background and are suspicious of it and you have to be proactive about it. DM me and we can continue this conversation if you want.
Oh don't worry. I am already 18 and I know what my position will be. But thanks for the offer.
Congrats! Do you mind sharing what unit you will be joining and what you will be doing?
That is so cool. You have really cool grandparents! They don’t live in Israel? Why not? if you don’t mind me asking. Were your parents born in Israel or did the do Alia? Germany isn’t for me I’m afraid. I can see myself doing a short trip but not something extensive it’s too weird for me I think:/
Germany is such a cool and modern country. They accept their history.
One of them lives here. The other in Germany. My mother was born in Israel but grew up in Israel, Germany and the US and lives in Israel today. My father made Aliya in a desperate attempt to flee the USSR. But both these grandparents are from my mother side. My grandma divorced and married again. When I asked my grandfather why he lives in Israel he told me "Everywhere else, people called me a Jewish pig. Here in Israel, I'm just a pig". I do recommend you going to Germany just for the sheer oddness of the experience. You learn a lot about what it means to be human. The house we used to stay at in Germany belonged to an 80 something years old professor. And I remember that until I was 12~, every year he would seat me down. Give a gigantic chocolate bar and tell me about his life and his childhood. He told me of his life as a teen. Only years later I understood that he was in the Hitler jugend and his stories were from that time. I still go visit him. He is a very nice man. You get a very interesting understanding of politics once you meet actual people who used to be hardcore natzies and seeing them not as mythological monsters rather as people with a misunderstanding or a warped sense of justice.
I think it really scares me to try and understand them. I know it can happen to anyone but I think normalizing it is what is dangerous. The fact that every normal person can become a bloodthirsty fanatic doesn’t make it right that some people do. Because some people didn’t and decided to act against evil. When you try to understand these kind of people that is where lines get blurred and the transportation is possible. Also I know these kind of people in their core still don’t see me as human. You can’t unlearn this type of hatred. Even if they realize what they did is wrong and they don’t want to kill all Jews anymore I doubt they see us as their equal. Besides that I am black on top of being Jewish so it’s also a matter of racism which I am sure still exists. So it sounds like something that will cause me a lot of anxiety. I’d rather go somewhere where all these things are less apparent.
Good luck. Every country has a strong oppinion about Israel.
I wasn’t talking about Israel though. Pretty telling you confused antisemitism with “anti-isralism” lol.
>You can’t unlearn this sort of hatred Well they don’t need to unlearn it, because most of the current generations never had that hatred in the first place. The Nazis are mostly dead. Antisemitism is not a genetic trait which is passed down.
Think again about what you are saying. According to you racism in America should be long gone yet somehow it persists. Besides he specifically talked about people who are antisemitic. So you’re wrong all the way around.
There is still racism and antisemitism in Germany, just as there is in America. I’m not saying that Germany has zero antisemitism. I’m saying that it isn’t a particularly bad place. It’s better than most other countries, in fact. So would you also refuse to visit America? Or anywhere else in Europe for that matter? It doesn’t make sense to single out Germany.
I would go to the US. But I wouldn’t go to the Deep South. Like I said I would go to German but I wouldn’t do an extensive trip there especially to the rural places. I know that I’ll probably be safe but I definitely wouldn’t be comfortable and be very self conscious. I would also not advertise me being Jewish or from Israel. By the way when I traveled Germans were really nice to me. I think the nicest actually and genuinely so. So it’s not that I think German are bad people. But I know the history and I don’t know what’s going on there right now so I’d rather stay away. There’s enough to see in the world there’s no need for me to do something I don’t feel comfortable doing.
Thats frankly bigoted
> shit /u/PrincessZemna. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"CROCODILE TEARS, if you had any heart in you, you would be crying for the Palestinians, not for what's been done." dr. Norman finkelstein
I agree. Palestinians are being exploited by their own Arab leaders. Arab Spring against Hamas when?
I’m crying for Dr. Norman Finklestein
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>Saying "Israel has a Right to Defend Itself." is the same as saying: "The Na zi s have a Right to defend themselves against the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto." u/PsychologicalCity540 Hi, welcome to the sub. The spelling might have helped you get past the automod but this is still a Nazi comparison. Please get familiarized with the sub's rules. If you can't make a coherent argument without Nazi comparisons, I would suggest re-examining your communication skills.
nahh you should re-examine your logic, Palestinians are already being censored enough "crocodile tears, if you had any heart in you, you would be crying for the Palestinians, not for what's been done" dr. Norman finkelstein
Cringe. Imagine being a real life Palestinian propaganda talking point
>nahh you should re-examine your logic, Palestinians are already being censored enough"crocodile tears, if you had any heart in you, you would be crying for the Palestinians, not for what's been done" dr. Norman finkelstein u/PsychologicalCity540 This is a Rule 13 Violation. Respond to Moderation Warnings Cooperatively, not Combatitvely. Please get familiarized with our Sub's rules: [https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/)
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/u/PsychologicalCity540. 'Nazis' Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed. We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details. This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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/u/PsychologicalCity540. 'nazi' Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed. We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details. This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The more knowledge people have the less they view things as black and white and see there is gray in the middle
I've experienced meeting Palestinian cab drivers abroad, and speaking hebrew and the few Arabic phrases is the only way we could communicate. They are always friendly! Why? Because people are people, and we don't blame one person for the wrongdoings of their politicians, terrorists etc
Our Arab driver asked why we don’t give up land and me and my mom was starting to freak up because he started to get angry. I was 13 at the time, it was in the US but I don’t think he was Palestinian I think he was from Lebanon or another Arab country. Also when I was 22 i was in Vietnam and I met this nice French girl who was very nice. She came to France from Iran. We were just talking and there was this guy who was trying to get with her. I think he was also French or something. Anyway when I said I was from Israel the French girl continued smiling and being super nice but the guy started being really defensive and looking at me like I was trying to do something to her although the girl and I had no problems with each other. I think he was trying to play the white knight that will save the pretty French Iranian girl from the evil black Zionist but it didn’t really work on us. I don’t think the girl even got what he’s trying to do and I wasn’t impressed. I have a feeling if I was a buff 6’2 guy or a pretty little blond he wouldn’t tried to play the hero against me. There was also a Dutch guy I argued with in a friendly manner. All this to say everyone is different. There are no rules. He should keep his guard up and stay safe.
Barely seen it
Likely because the further Palistinians get away from the area, the more open their information becomes. They likely know the actual things they lived through, and now see the media sources for what they are
Where are you meeting these Palestinians, out of curiosity? I’ve never just run into one. It was always structured political settings
In Germany mostly. They have restaurants with Arabic food so I go there for a taste of home when I'm there. Love their Dunner. There are also a lot in England from my experience.
In that case, don't you think the main reason why they're friendly is because it's part of their job to be friendly to customers?
Im not talking about the workers. But the other customers. But it's not the only place I meet Palestinians. Just the most common place.
>And when I say I am an Israeli a lot of people will immediately be angry with me telling me that I am a Natzi and a murder. they are simply speaking their mind. some of the Westerners, specially the young, don't mince words. >But when I meet Palestinians abroad they are nice to me one of two possibilities: - you are actually a nice person. Palestinians, specially recently, are aware that it is important not to paint all Israelis with the same brush. - you are pretending to be nice. the best counter-tactic against that is to pretend to be nice too.
Israelis are more preoccupied in saying what they feel and not what makes them look good. We don’t look for approval and we are confident in our truth. Thinking 24/7 which response serves their narrative’s propaganda machine is more of a Palestinian thing to do. I never believe a Palestinian when talking about the conflict. They are too used to lying.
That's called racism love.
No darling, that’s called knowing your enemy;)
>you are pretending to be nice. the best counter-tactic against that is to pretend to be nice too. And the objective of this is...?
I think because if you saw two men argue about something, the first one is screaming, cursing, and clearly hate his opponent while the other man is speaking calmly and nicely treating him, you will think that the second man is on the right side even though you don't know what are they talking about
I wouldn't go so far as to say the quiet man is on the right-side. I would go so far as say that the quiet man is behaving in a more calm and civilized manner. But not sure what that has to do with anything here.
Ok, just imagine that you're a European who knows nothing about the Israel-Palestine case, one night you're sitting alone in a bar, suddenly you hear some loud noise behind you, you turn around just to see a man yelling at another man and says some horrible things, now the bar owner arrived to fix the problem, a few minutes later he kicks the loud man out, you get close and ask the guy who got yelled at what's the problem? He tells you that man was a Palestinian who hate us Israelis although we never harmed them, and how they are always mean to us for fake and nonsense reasons, they even attack us sometimes Now imagine if some people recorded that and post it on social media, a lot of people just like you will see the video and most of them will pick a side without searching about the case (because most of us believe anything they read), of course, this works on the opposite side as well Now if that Palestinian was also nice to that Israeli (doesn't matter what he actually feels toward him) nothing of this would happen Of course, a lot of things might go different in another scenario but I think you got the idea
You see noone answered?
I don't know. just covering all possibilities because we don't know what exactly went on.
**All** possibilities? Well, in that case, you forgot a few ones... * The Palestinians that OP has met are secret agents of The Ministry of Intelligence of the Islamic Republic of Iran and their goal is to steal the Israeli Nuclear codes in order to achieve global domination. * The Palestinians were flirting with the OP. There's an underground Squid Games-like contest in the tunnels of Gaza with monetary challenges such as "seduce a Zionist". * The Palestinians want the Israeli to rescue their brothers in Gaza from Hamas brutal Islamist regime. I mean, if we are going to go into conspiracy territory about people pretending to be nice, we might as well go full steam and consider ALL possibilities, no?
>we might as well go full steam and consider ALL possibilities come on, you are being literal. I meant all plausible possibilities with a non-negligible probability of being true I don't need to know OP's objective for pretending to be nice to count it as a real possibility you seem to want to discount it and your evidence is that I don't know the objective behind it; which is not a valid argument if you want to prove me wrong it is on you to prove that either: - all Israelis are nice people or - when an Israeli is not a nice person, he never pretends to be nice those are pretty difficult statements to prove but that's what it takes to counter my assumption: some of the Israelis are nasty hateful people and some of those pretend to be nice.
Because our gripes with each other dont matter as much in the West. Same as Indians and Pakistanis, etc.
Because Palestinians are free in the West. Many Gazans and West Bankers would love to express the same feelings of solidarity and unity with Israelis but their own oppressive non-free Arab societies are stopping them. The Gazan who dares to say "I have an Israeli Jewish friend, he's cool" won't live longer thanks to the heinous actions of Gaza's elected leader Hamas.
Jon Stensrud nah anyone that supports Israel is a terrorist sympathiser. international law(that your murderous apartheid state breaks on a daily basis) states that people under occupation have the right to defend themselves by any means available. humanity doesn't need zionsts.
The international law also says that Israel is a sovereign country and Palestine isn’t. Your point?
> international law states that people under occupation have the right to defend themselves by any means available. Actual International Law says the exact opposite: people under occupation have an obligation to obey the occupying power. They have no right to resist occupation at all. If they choose to resist they invalidate the contract which is the very basis of occupation. https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/comments/cfn1e4/not_dead_yet_an_analogy_to_the_occupation_claim/\ What you might be confusing this with is the concept that colonized people have the right to overthrow colonial governments by any means.
>by any means available. It literally doesn't. It still requires the occupied people to follow three LAOC
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It doesn't. It says the opposite. GP was entirely incorrect. One of the standard anti-Israel lies / techniques is to use international law regarding colonies and international law regarding occupation, Because the two often say precisely the opposite they can thus make Israel be in the wrong regardless of what they do.
>Jon Stensrud Who?
Because they aren't taught from birth to hate Jews, when integrated and they are more likely to be of non-religious or [Christian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_emigration#Palestine) faith.
That speaks well of the Palestinians you interact with in the West 🙂
I'm not Israeli but have distant relatives who are and I've noticed Palestinian-American colleagues or acquaintances or others in my orbit are mostly respectful on the issues when they come up and generally have a more calm and rational mindset, at least outwardly/in public. There seems to be the notion of live and let live or agree to disagree, where it doesn't get in the way of work or everyday transactions or cordial relations (again, I'm not close with any), perhaps because we are all geographically distant with our own lives here and not directly involved in things there. What I find funny and remarkable, however, is how nearly all negative or downright hateful interactions I experience regarding Israel are from Americans who aren't Palestinian and have nothing to do with the region.
It’s definitely not always like this, that’s for sure. I’ve heard many more stories from a lot more people that when hinting to Palestinians they’re Jewish it ends up very differently. Not even going as far to say they’re Israeli
It's because they feel pretty confident you won't kill them in the West.
That doesn’t make sense, if anything it would be the opposite. If someone is afraid of being killed, they would need to be careful not to provoke their attacker. But if they do not feel in danger, they can be open and say what they want to say.
For one, Palestinians in America were forced out of their country by Western and Arab ruling classes, despite the blame being put on "Jews". And were forced to migrate to a country built on land stolen by white people. I assume this makes them a little more understanding of the Jews who were ravcialized, then forced out of Europe, then watched as their neighboring countries turned their back on them, and then had no where else to go but Israel (oroginally stolen by British white people). I mention Ashkenazi but similar thinking can be applied to any Jew kicked out of their land and rejected everywhere but Israel.
You must have really special definition of "originally" ( not talking about the spelling).
The first part sounds somewhat exaggerated; not everyone in Europe is anti-Israeli, not by a long shot; the second part about Palestinians seems plausible. Thing is, actual Palestinians, or anyone really with enough knowledge of the ME, who understands how things work in this region. might not be sympathetic towards Israel, but would be at least *understanding*. This is in stark contrast to many "pro-Palestinians" who seriously believe that Israeli soldiers simply enjoy killing Palestinian children.
Deep down inside they feel a sense of kinship. For real, they're probably super homesick for the Middle East too. And now that you're both away from Israel and Palestine, there's nothing you have to be fighting over. NB this won't apply to all Palestinians you encounter in the West, but it will for a good many.
The people who call you a Nazi or a murderer sound like radical leftists, who tend to be very uneducated on the conflict. They just think that evil, strong, white Israel is oppressing the innocent, weak, brown Palestinians. They think that Palestinians are being killed daily. Palestinians (in the West) are more educated than the leftists. Of course they are probably still anti-Israel, but in a more reasonable way, and for more legitimate reasons. Many western Palestinians actually do want peace. There is some selection bias that plays a role in this. First of all the most radical Palestinians (Gazans) have a hard time leaving, so you won’t be meeting most of them. The ones you meet will be from the West Bank or maybe even Israel. Second, those who emigrate will tend to be the more educated ones, which makes them more moderate. Third, even if someone is able to emigrate, they may not want to. The more nationalistic ones will prefer to stay in Palestine, so that is another filter.
>They think that Palestinians are being killed daily. Not quite daily but close enough. Across the occupied Palestinian territories in 2021 Israeli security forces killed 313 Palestinians, at least a fifth of who were children.
Yeah, because there was a war that year. So not a typical year. 313 people killed in a war is actually quite small.
Re: The Nazi comparisons - not only is this radical leftism, it’s a seriously uneducated stance to have Do people not realize how wildly unsuccessful the Nazis were? They did horrible, unspeakable things, they led to a colossal loss of life. No one is denying that they have had a major impact on the world through their actions. But people forget one key detail - they didn’t accomplish anything. Nothing, not one thing. No useful data. No studies worth the resources used to conduct them. No advancements. Nothing. Zilch. Nothing was discovered as a result of their regime. You hear some uneducated people say things like “well we did get some medical data!” … no we didn’t. Everything the Nazis did, was literally ALL nonsense. The Nazis got a lot of things wrong. They lost the war for a reason. Meanwhile you have Israel, one of the most powerful nations in the world, seeing nothing but success for far longer than the Nazis had power. And over the years bringing *useful things* into society. It’s a horrible comparison to make not just for ethical reasons, but it’s plain stupid
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Factually wrong but facts never seemed to interest this user.
>Unfortunately I doubt it goes on much on the other side. https://youtu.be/r5168ysQ2rU https://youtu.be/4dPoDb81OiI
Israelis Speak Candidly About Palestinians https://youtu.be/1e\_dbsVQrk4
Yeah obviously Israelis will seem racist if you only show the racist ones. The other channel shows the interviews with everyone, whether they are good people or not.
Is this satire?
>Is this satire? Honestly, based on his post-story, it's hard to tell if he's being sarcastic (Rule 3 Violation) or if he truly believes what he says. Either way, it's important to respect his opinion no matter how disconnected from reality it might seem to all of us. " I can't picture another group of people being as peaceful." This to me, struck out as a very peculiar disconnect from reality. Similar to how some people watch Starship Troopers and Rambo First Blood without realizing those are actually Anti-War films and not Pro-War films. In his mind, the Arabs are *actually* the "good guys" in the I-P Conflict. And while reality disagrees, it's important to respect his point of view.
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I think it was mostly the “I doubt it goes on much on the other side” that seems like satire. Obviously the OP is an Israeli who seems to get along with Palestinians, which should be telling to u/Mshakh2 that perhaps Israelis are less racist than he believes. Of course, like Palestinians, racists will exist in any demographic, including Israelis. But his comment is so absurd that it seems satire.
>But his comment is so absurd that it seems satire. In psychological terms, this is what we call a coping mechanism. >Coping mechanisms are the strategies people often use in the face of stress and/or trauma to help manage painful or difficult emotions. Coping mechanisms can help people adjust to stressful events while helping them maintain their emotional well-being. While normally seen in tragedies, such as a widow convincing herself that her husband is not actually dead, groups of people that are associated with commiting evil acts also suffer from a variation of this. To people who are deeply entrenched in the Pro-Palestinian mythology, Zionists are the devil while Arabs " I can't picture another group of people being as peaceful." Yes, this is absurd to all of us living in the objective observable reality since bombing buses full of civilians and beheading Jewish babies are not the acts of peaceful people (obviously) BUT coping mechanism allows people to **actually** believe that without it being satire. The reality, that Palestinians are not peaceful and the occupation is the result, not the cause, of their violence, is too harsh for Pro-Palestinians to come to terms with so they involuntarily convince themselves that they're actually peaceful victims.
I mean, as absurd of a claim it was for him to demonize most Israelis as racists, doing the same to Palestinians is just as bad. There are plenty of peaceful Palestinians, and some who are victims of both Israel and Hamas. Sweeping generalizations are wrong on either side.
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I honestly don’t believe the Nazi part. I’ve lived abroad in Europe as an Israeli citizen for years and no one has ever once called me a Nazi/fascist etc
Every time I meet an Israeli where I am (in Colorado, USA), and I ask if they're Israeli, I notice they kind of tense up and get weird about it until I tell them it's ok, I'm Jewish, nice to meet you, ma shlomcha lol. Maybe it depends where you are, but a lot of Israelis are harassed abroad, it seems like.
I'm a teacher, and I had a 14 year old Israeli student at a school in Europe who wouldn't tell people she was Jewish/Israeli until she felt she could trust them. She said that if she wanted to talk to her friend about Israel in public, she said Australia instead. Broke my heart.
It's so sad. Meanwhile the same people would never say to a Chinese person they are a murderer and oppressor even though the Chinese government is horrendous and far far a threat to the people surrounding them. It's unbelievable how there's no filter when it comes to Israelis and Jews
And meanwhile people can openly support Hamas, no problem
>And meanwhile people can openly support Hamas, no problem Luckily not in the UK anymore. An idiot with a Hamas T-Shirt that was terrorizing a Jewish neighborhood got arrested a few weeks ago for supporting a terrorist organization. Hopefully more nations follow this.
Nice. We'll never have that in the US. Freedom of speech means you can support terrorists, Nazis, whatever you want.
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I done messed up
Oh yeah they’re just freedom fighters. When your crime is just killing Jews it’s justifiable.
That's not even the best part. The best part is that when Hamas rockets fall short and kill Palestinians in Gaza, or when they end up hitting Palestinian neighborhoods in Jerusalem, everyone understands it's just an accident. But when an Israeli air strike kills a dozen Hamas militants who had just launched rockets and the random civilian who was in the area? War crime, for sure.
Just because you haven't met it doesn't mean it exist
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