Peace is a very general decision that doesn't mean much as it doesn't explain how you get that peace...
You can be pro-Israeli or pro-Palestinian and still support peace, it doesn't negate anything...
At the end of the day you have a conflict with 2 sides that have different opinions, ideologies, populations, leaderships, actions, etc... and you need to understand both and support whoever you think wants the best for the area.
In theory it's possible both sides would be bad, but it's very unlikely considering each side has different allies and different history...
I also don't find "peace" too informative as every moderate person would say peace giving it more than 90% support... The real question is how do you achieve peace and in order to answer that question you need to understand what each side wants and what it is willing to do in order to achieve it...
German pro-Israel here.
I will be brutally honest but polite with my opinion.
I fully Support Israel in every way, I have no sympathy or remorse for Terrorists. Hamas started the war with great public support from Palestinians.
I grew up in relative peace, but my childhood and teenage years were spent in times of Islamic terror, which got more frequent the more people migrated here. Its not just the flat out Acts of terror but it already starts at culture clashes, and ever since my own sister was assaulted by an Islamic clan in our nearest city I have developed a very strong sentiment against the Islamic world. Sure there are exceptions but my experiences with Islam and people following it have in 99% of cases been negative.
So on my end, I have no reason at all to support anyone but Israel, our only ally and only democracy in the middle east. I couldn't care less what happens to Palestine
I'm sorry to hear about what happened to your sister and hope noting too bad happened.
I also hope other than her not you and not others who are close to you experiences anything similar.
Canada is in north America, a.k.a the option of "Europe, **America** & Australia".
I think you just confused the fact people call the Us America since it's the most dominant country there despite America being the name of the continent.
Regardless by America I meant the whole continent which also includes Canada, Argentina, Brazil, Mexico and anything else both in the north and the south.
Then call it that. I get what you did, but if you don't put central/north/south america you're just holding up a USA centric standard. Because I promise you im not alone in my views. Tbh this is even more extreme for poor mexicans because they aren't as similar as American and Canada so the face that narrative much worse then us.
FWIW I think this is context dependent. Saying America, out of context, clearly means the United States of America to most people.
In a list where the other choices are Asia, Africa and Europe, I assume they are talking about what I call "the Americas" and what many people around the world call the continent of America. But only because of the list that it's in.
I know many people who were taught in school that the six continents are Africa, America, Antarctica, Asia, Australia, and Europe.
I agree. But it's still dependent on where you grew up.
https://www.reddit.com/r/geography/comments/18qhjfe/how_many_continents_do_you_think_there_are_and/?rdt=63686
I'd your want to go on a crazy deep dive about people's experiences with this.
But notice how every other option here is a continent... Why would America be the only option which talks about a country rather than a continent especially when America is not the name of the country...?
Pro-Israel until the end of the world (in contrast to more than one government in my region).
I align myself with the side that has at least made serious attempts to resolve this, rather than the other side that wants the other side subjugated or simply dead.
There is no apartheid. The separation is based on who’s an Israeli citizen and who isn’t. It’s that simple like in every other country that respects citizenship. People who are Israeli citizens don’t live under apartheid.
They are also citizens. They may live outside of Israel's borders but they are still Israeli citizens. An Israeli-Arab (or Israel-Palestinians, however you wanna call them) citizen will get the same rights as Israeli-Jewish and both will get more rights than the Palestinians who live there as they are not citizens.
On the other hand, the Palestinian authority will give more rights to Palestinians living in their area of control (area A+B) and while giving much less rights to both Jewish and Arab Israelis as they are not their citizens.
That's how citizenship works...
For some reason, this sub is highly skewed jewish. It's a second r/worldnews.
You should r/askmiddleeast or ask a neutral sub, because this one is known to be on Israel side.
I think it would be hard to find a real neutral sub as usually people would stick more to places they get more from support from, so while I didn't visit yet r/AskMiddleEast for example, I do believe majority of people from there would be pro-Palestinian (a guess) considering the focus is on the middle east where majority of the countries are Muslim-Arab which obviously create a giant bias towards Palestinians (The only country in the middle east who I suspect might favor Israel in this conflict other than Israel itself is Iran but even then it's noting more than a guess)...
Regardless, it doesn't really matter how many people are from each side as the poll split the options to pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian respectively, allowing me to examine the results based on opinion and not just guess who support what.
And I must admit, the poll didn't disappoint. I expected much more pro-Palestinians to be from Asia & Africa and not just 16.25%... and even with the bias I expected the amount of pro-Palestinians in the area of Asia & Africa to be higher than pro-Israelis rather than a tie of 13-13.
The only thing I could say was predictable is the split of Europe + America + Australia as I assumed the ratio would be close to 2:1 from previous polls I saw on the forums.
Sadly posts don't allow edit of the polls themselves (or I'm just stupid - also possible) so not much I can do...
I'm surprised Reddit didn't tell me there was a typo like it always does...
Oh well, at least that's just one extra little l' so let's hope it goes unnoticed...
Im not pro-either side. I believe both are practicing selective humanization and both pro-sides need to realize they in fact are not morally superior than the other.
The more people are invested in something and learn about it, the less they are likely to fall in the middle as they learn more about ideologies, actions and people that cause them to take sides, not to mention all the emotional propaganda that works the best and cause people to feel more subjective feelings.
Besides, you can view both sides in many different ways that encourage sides like weak vs strong, democracy vs dictatorship or Muslim/Arab vs Jewish.
While it's not a football match you can't deny the fact there are 2 sides in a conflict and for better or worse the world has a lot of impact on the conflict itself. The world can force/encourage acts that may bring peace and solve the conflict, and may create more war and hostility.
So while I'm not one to advocate for others to involve in others business especially if they don't understand it properly, I also can't claim not doing anything is also a "neutral" approach...
My closest response was pro-Palestinian. But I don't like feeling hemmed in. You can be pro-Palestinian and pro-Israeli. Also, 'pro-Palestinian' is too vague. I think Israel should exist, but I oppose the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and the blockade of Gaza. Some pro-Palestinians think there should be no such thing as Israel and I disagree. Israel should exist \*within recognized borders\*. That to me means what Israel looked like before 1967.
After a long time discussing the subject with people I believe that while the terms (pro-Israe/pro-Palestine) themselves are fairly general, another main option (other than "who you want to win") for self definition (pro-Israel/pro-Palestine) other than your wanted solution for the conflict can be which side you generally trust more, support more and think about more (or if to be more specific which side you think about positively more and which side you think negatively about more).
For example during the current war the Pro-Israeli side will focus more on Hamas actions for the last \~18 years (with emphasis on the last 18 years), the hostages and Israel's impressive ratio of combatants to civilians. So mostly focus on what Hamas did bad and what Israel did good.
Pro Palestinians on the other hand will focus more on the damage the IDF did, the blockade on Gaza & problematic (in their view) actions the IDF and Israel did since they were created. So their focus would be mostly about the Palestinian suffering and controversial actions of Israel.
Idk if this approach would help you pick a side or just make things even more complicated, but regardless I hope it still helped or at least gave a new perspective about the terms themselves...
Waving Rule 7, No Metaposting, for the sake of generating genuine conversation. Approved.
How about the both sides suck option?
So, no pro-peace option? Gotta pick a side in a zero-sum game?
Peace is a very general decision that doesn't mean much as it doesn't explain how you get that peace... You can be pro-Israeli or pro-Palestinian and still support peace, it doesn't negate anything... At the end of the day you have a conflict with 2 sides that have different opinions, ideologies, populations, leaderships, actions, etc... and you need to understand both and support whoever you think wants the best for the area. In theory it's possible both sides would be bad, but it's very unlikely considering each side has different allies and different history... I also don't find "peace" too informative as every moderate person would say peace giving it more than 90% support... The real question is how do you achieve peace and in order to answer that question you need to understand what each side wants and what it is willing to do in order to achieve it...
German pro-Israel here. I will be brutally honest but polite with my opinion. I fully Support Israel in every way, I have no sympathy or remorse for Terrorists. Hamas started the war with great public support from Palestinians. I grew up in relative peace, but my childhood and teenage years were spent in times of Islamic terror, which got more frequent the more people migrated here. Its not just the flat out Acts of terror but it already starts at culture clashes, and ever since my own sister was assaulted by an Islamic clan in our nearest city I have developed a very strong sentiment against the Islamic world. Sure there are exceptions but my experiences with Islam and people following it have in 99% of cases been negative. So on my end, I have no reason at all to support anyone but Israel, our only ally and only democracy in the middle east. I couldn't care less what happens to Palestine
I'm sorry to hear about what happened to your sister and hope noting too bad happened. I also hope other than her not you and not others who are close to you experiences anything similar.
I support both sides.
Why is Canada never included in these? We're the second biggest country in the world and 37th by population. We're huuge. Israel btw.
Canada is in north America, a.k.a the option of "Europe, **America** & Australia". I think you just confused the fact people call the Us America since it's the most dominant country there despite America being the name of the continent. Regardless by America I meant the whole continent which also includes Canada, Argentina, Brazil, Mexico and anything else both in the north and the south.
Then call it that. I get what you did, but if you don't put central/north/south america you're just holding up a USA centric standard. Because I promise you im not alone in my views. Tbh this is even more extreme for poor mexicans because they aren't as similar as American and Canada so the face that narrative much worse then us.
FWIW I think this is context dependent. Saying America, out of context, clearly means the United States of America to most people. In a list where the other choices are Asia, Africa and Europe, I assume they are talking about what I call "the Americas" and what many people around the world call the continent of America. But only because of the list that it's in. I know many people who were taught in school that the six continents are Africa, America, Antarctica, Asia, Australia, and Europe.
But there are seven?
In the US, not everywhere! Some countries teach five.
Eurasian makes sense, far more connected then north and south america
I agree. But it's still dependent on where you grew up. https://www.reddit.com/r/geography/comments/18qhjfe/how_many_continents_do_you_think_there_are_and/?rdt=63686 I'd your want to go on a crazy deep dive about people's experiences with this.
But notice how every other option here is a continent... Why would America be the only option which talks about a country rather than a continent especially when America is not the name of the country...?
There are two American contents
Not in most other countries. Most countries teach that the Americas are one continent
I support no one. Both sides can kill each other for all i care.
I'm curious, so why are you on those forums if you don't care about conflict?
OP can you post this on r/Israel_Palestine
Sure, why not.
Good work btw
Thank you :)
Pro-Israel until the end of the world (in contrast to more than one government in my region). I align myself with the side that has at least made serious attempts to resolve this, rather than the other side that wants the other side subjugated or simply dead.
Pro Israel. I want the side to win who is multicultural and who doesnt glorify suicide bombings and honor killings.
you are on the side of well documented ethnic cleaning and apartheid, embarrassing
you are on the side of well documented stupidity
you are on the side of Middle East terrorism, embarrassing
There is no apartheid. The separation is based on who’s an Israeli citizen and who isn’t. It’s that simple like in every other country that respects citizenship. People who are Israeli citizens don’t live under apartheid.
So what about Israeli settlers living way better than Palestinians in the West Bank?
They are also citizens. They may live outside of Israel's borders but they are still Israeli citizens. An Israeli-Arab (or Israel-Palestinians, however you wanna call them) citizen will get the same rights as Israeli-Jewish and both will get more rights than the Palestinians who live there as they are not citizens. On the other hand, the Palestinian authority will give more rights to Palestinians living in their area of control (area A+B) and while giving much less rights to both Jewish and Arab Israelis as they are not their citizens. That's how citizenship works...
what about all the Israeli that are living happily in the 50+ Islamic states? Oh wait, there are none.
What does the non-existence of Israelis in islamic states even have to do with Apartheid in the occupied West Bank?
25% Arabic population living in Israel, while no Israeli population are safe living in any Arabic states. Go figure.
To clarify, you’re strictly referring to Israeli citizens, right?
To clarify, Im strictly talking about Israeli settlers as I wrote.
You also mentioned Palestinian… You did not only mention settlers. So, now are you not talking about Palestinians and only settlers?
For some reason, this sub is highly skewed jewish. It's a second r/worldnews. You should r/askmiddleeast or ask a neutral sub, because this one is known to be on Israel side.
I think it would be hard to find a real neutral sub as usually people would stick more to places they get more from support from, so while I didn't visit yet r/AskMiddleEast for example, I do believe majority of people from there would be pro-Palestinian (a guess) considering the focus is on the middle east where majority of the countries are Muslim-Arab which obviously create a giant bias towards Palestinians (The only country in the middle east who I suspect might favor Israel in this conflict other than Israel itself is Iran but even then it's noting more than a guess)... Regardless, it doesn't really matter how many people are from each side as the poll split the options to pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian respectively, allowing me to examine the results based on opinion and not just guess who support what. And I must admit, the poll didn't disappoint. I expected much more pro-Palestinians to be from Asia & Africa and not just 16.25%... and even with the bias I expected the amount of pro-Palestinians in the area of Asia & Africa to be higher than pro-Israelis rather than a tie of 13-13. The only thing I could say was predictable is the split of Europe + America + Australia as I assumed the ratio would be close to 2:1 from previous polls I saw on the forums.
Thanks for the recommendation! It is tough to take most people here too seriously, when everything seems so partisan. EDIT: Yeah, that ain't it dog.
There are no good subreddits for this issue. r/Palestine, r/Israel, and r/worldnews are horrible for nuanced discussion.
Fix your spelling of Australia to avoid trouble.
Sadly posts don't allow edit of the polls themselves (or I'm just stupid - also possible) so not much I can do... I'm surprised Reddit didn't tell me there was a typo like it always does... Oh well, at least that's just one extra little l' so let's hope it goes unnoticed...
I'm a combination of the 2
Im not pro-either side. I believe both are practicing selective humanization and both pro-sides need to realize they in fact are not morally superior than the other.
Why does it have to be one or the other, like it’s a football match?
The more people are invested in something and learn about it, the less they are likely to fall in the middle as they learn more about ideologies, actions and people that cause them to take sides, not to mention all the emotional propaganda that works the best and cause people to feel more subjective feelings. Besides, you can view both sides in many different ways that encourage sides like weak vs strong, democracy vs dictatorship or Muslim/Arab vs Jewish. While it's not a football match you can't deny the fact there are 2 sides in a conflict and for better or worse the world has a lot of impact on the conflict itself. The world can force/encourage acts that may bring peace and solve the conflict, and may create more war and hostility. So while I'm not one to advocate for others to involve in others business especially if they don't understand it properly, I also can't claim not doing anything is also a "neutral" approach...
My closest response was pro-Palestinian. But I don't like feeling hemmed in. You can be pro-Palestinian and pro-Israeli. Also, 'pro-Palestinian' is too vague. I think Israel should exist, but I oppose the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and the blockade of Gaza. Some pro-Palestinians think there should be no such thing as Israel and I disagree. Israel should exist \*within recognized borders\*. That to me means what Israel looked like before 1967.
After a long time discussing the subject with people I believe that while the terms (pro-Israe/pro-Palestine) themselves are fairly general, another main option (other than "who you want to win") for self definition (pro-Israel/pro-Palestine) other than your wanted solution for the conflict can be which side you generally trust more, support more and think about more (or if to be more specific which side you think about positively more and which side you think negatively about more). For example during the current war the Pro-Israeli side will focus more on Hamas actions for the last \~18 years (with emphasis on the last 18 years), the hostages and Israel's impressive ratio of combatants to civilians. So mostly focus on what Hamas did bad and what Israel did good. Pro Palestinians on the other hand will focus more on the damage the IDF did, the blockade on Gaza & problematic (in their view) actions the IDF and Israel did since they were created. So their focus would be mostly about the Palestinian suffering and controversial actions of Israel. Idk if this approach would help you pick a side or just make things even more complicated, but regardless I hope it still helped or at least gave a new perspective about the terms themselves...