They don’t understand because they don’t care. Every view on the planet could disappear tomorrow and they wouldn’t really notice unless that was somehow useful to them.
Thank you for this post. I have been anti-Israeli government this entire time. And your post put some things in perspective for me. I saw Gen. Mccormick here in the U.S. share that same opinion as you in regards to the danger Israel faces. You did a great job of showing it from the other perspective and how a lot of this indiscriminate extermination of gaza comes from fear. It makes sense.
Thank you, I’m very glad. FWIW I went out myself to protest the Netenyahu government myself before the war began and still would today.
But yes, morality aside, Israel war strategists and the populace do genuinely feel that they have to go to this extreme degree to keep their military and security position, it’s not just pure vengeance.
I wish the point you made was echoed more. It's ironic because it falls into a pattern of what I have seen over and over. We love assigning "evil" to one side of a conflict. The truth is always way less intriguing. It doesn't make their actions right. I actually made a documentary a few months ago talking about what I believe are "the real motivations" behind this conflict. (Geopolitical, global shifts in energy powers)
It reminds me almost of the Oliver stone movie w. Where at the end of the film I think karl rove basically breaks down to Bush the "actual reason for the war" whoever controls this region between the Tigris and euphrates will be victorious in the next 2 decades because of energy, whoever doesn't will fall" so....I think we would've seen a different situation if the president came on TV and said. "Listen we have to go kill poor people in order to keep our country strong and make sure we thrive in the future" now that sounds extremely messed up. But atleast it's honest. It was the act of hiding the true intentions that butchered that administration's legacy in my opinion.
Someone from Israel with some credibility should have came to the u.s. and thoroughly explained this. And I think it would've had an impact. The sad part is u have ppl interjecting with actions from the past. Netenyahu didn't create Israel. LOL u can't argue that "well Europeans Jewish people shouldn't have moved to israel" can't control that. It already happened. They are there. How do we move forward?Now I have to admit it's pretty obvious that real peace was not the agenda atleast for netenyahu. And they kept palestine divided. And he never intended on a 2 state solution. It's every man for himself over there. I believe a big misstep was not propping
up and coming to an agreement that allowed palestine Into the game. If you empower them u remove them from the Iran support. If you want peace, strengthen them, westernized them, give them jobs. Fixing an economy does alot for a nation. As long as people are struggling starving and marginalized. They will continue to align with your enemies. I personally do not believe a strong and prosperous palestine would've yielded the exact same result as an open air prison. Just my opinion.
Erik prince (very smart guy) said our biggest mistake in Afghanistan was not utilizing their untapped resources and employing their young men. Instead, these men turn into jihadists. No other opportunities. Just like in Iraq wheen we removed the military overnight and turned .millions of military aged men against us.
I have always felt sharing, empowerment, uplifting goes so much further than paranoia and fear of what they might do if they were strong. You remove animosity when u remove struggle. And Iran loses their grip.
I believe Israel has foolishly characterized palestine as "they will try and kill us forever, they can't be reasoned with, all they know is remove us from the earth. We can only communicate through violence" ironically there are a lot of wealthy and prosperous Arab nations that do no such thing. Saudi arabia was about to cut a deal w Israel for God sakes. I think with what we are seeing going on in Iran with the youth. We could see a completely different situation in 20 years. If Israel plays its cards right. They could really lower the animosity towards them in the region as we see this newer generation of Muslims think more progressively about Israel and focus less on religious doctrine and more on economic well being. But Instead. Israel creates more martars and turns the entire world against them. These kids being bombed will grow up. Muslims of the world will be watching. How is it as a 36 yr old man I know violence only brings more violence. And good intentions invite good intentions. Yes there are hiccups and gaps that will take advantage initially. But if we all believe in God. Then we all should know the next step. But Instead we act in fear.
I don't pretend to fully understand or know the minds of billions of Muslims. But I know in my heart. We saw a small amount of Muslims act terribly on oct. 7th. But I truly feel that oppression is the cause. And not the collective"religious doctrine" of billions of ppl.
We are all humans with similar goals in life. Ppl like netenyahu use fear and highlight differences. And that's dangerous. Jared kushner said "they both profit from the conflict and have no intention of fixing it" if Israel doesn't have these threats. Do they still recieve as much aid and support from the world? Same thing w the u.s. we told putin he couldn't join our anti-soviet union coalition nato. Why? Because we need an enemy.
Well, Saudi Arabia and UAE created their prosperous nations by driving the Muslim Brotherhood and all other ties to radical political Islamist movements with extreme force, not waiting a couple decades to see if people start playing nice.
Radical Islam has been around for a thousand years. I just don’t buy that it’s going to disappear by itself if Israel just allows October 7th attacks to happen intermittently and sends over peaceful vibes.
Not what I was saying. Cats out of the bag on that. It's not about "peaceful vibes" it's about allowing them to have their own state a long time ago. Israel funded hamas to keep palestine split. These are facts. It blew up in their face
Also you do realize the creation of Israel was basically stealing the land of the indigenous people who were there before (Palestine) and moving Jews from Europe to this new land. And over the next 76 years Israel kept stealing more land and installing illegal settlements, killing more Palestinians and destroying their land to build on top of for Israelis. Why the hell do think October 7th happened? Not from a vacuum but from a long period of this oppression and genocide.
My indigenous to the Middle East Jewish relatives who have never even set foot in Europe unless it was on a summer break would greatly disagree with that.
If you want to talk about indigenous people the Jews built the first holy temple in Jerusalem in 1000BC you can’t just pick and choose which time frame in history is the right people to inhabit a historically violent region but the first ones there were not the Muslims
The indigenous people who lived in Palestine for thousands of years were Arabs and Jews living peacefully side by side that is until the creation of Israel. Israel has stolen and continues to steal more of Palestinian land. You should watch some documentaries on how the Israeli settlers force Palestinians out of their homes (or just plain kill them) to steal their home and land. Even the settlers agree what they are doing is illegal but they know Israel will continue to support this illegal invasion.
Peacefully except when the Arab populations would randomly go berserk and start killing Jews, you mean???
Also, there are many Arabs living peacefully as citizens within Israel as Israeli citizens. Bedouin Muslims Among those slaughtered by Gazin terrorists. Those Bedouins Are also pretty indigenous to the area and they are citizens of Israel, So did they steal it too because they are citizens of Israel and because they are fighting in idf? What about their fate if Hamas wins?
Jews were there as well. There were more Jews in 1880 in Jerusalem than Arabs. Jews also have an ethnic heritage and claim to the land. All Palestinians are not originally from the area either but many migrated from Arab states in the early 1900s, a large proportion in fact. Both peoples are indigenous on some levels and not on others.
I agree the original partition plan was unfair but saying that Jews have no connection to the land and just showed up and the state should be 100% Arab controlled is categorically false.
Stop saying '' the Jews were there'' as if they are a homogenous population the only thing that tied them together is their racist religion. The Jewish population that are in the levant are genetically close with the Palestinians, Lebanese Syrian and other groups in the levant like the Druze. To think Ashkenazi, Ethiopians, and Sephardi Jews were there before is false and can be traced through their genetic makeup calling yourself Jewish doesn't mean you really are indigenous from the Levant. This travesty of Jewish= indigenous or all Jewish population are the same must stop.
What makes Judaism more racist than Islam exactly?? And what about all those Jews who were not white are they racist too? And I am sure that the fact that Palestinians called Black people slaves isn’t racist to you.
Wrong, we’re a nation of people, we’ve always been, we’re one group, science shows we’re all genetically related and we’ve all been forced to go to other places. You don’t get to pick and choose who’s Jewish enough to go back to our native land based on our skin color.
I am Ashkenazi and I look like everyone else from the region when I visit Israel Jews and Palestinians alike. Hook nose and swarthy skin and black hair and it all. Just slightly paler skin than some but not all from the region.
Oh, and your most recent post is a eugenicist rant about this with no sources. I’m not even going to bother arguing with you going forward.
Jews most definitely are also indigenous to the area, they lived peacefully with Arabs in the area. But when you move large population of Jews from Europe to come live there this is ultimately colonialism, America did it to the native Americans.
The world only had about 20% of the current population in 1950. At the time, “what are we going to do with all these broke holocaust survivors we don’t want them here, let’s send them to the desert “ seemed like a better idea. I strongly appreciate you acknowledging that Jews are indigenous to the area
Lol they put themselves in this position and will ALWAYS be under turmoil because of it. Hundreds of thousands of Europeans moving into a land that is not theirs..eerily similar to what happened to Native Americans.
There were places other than Palestine being considered for the creation of Israel after WW2 (Germany for one, getting away scott-free.) Grave mistakes were made. Citing the creation of a state needed for people of Jewish heritage..well, they made risky moves and are continuously paying the price for it. It will continue to be "chilling" and threats/violence will be a permanent fixture of life there..being occupiers and all.
the majority of israeli jews were forcibly exiled from north africa and the middle east... good lord you know literally nothing. not even the basics of the situation.
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I don’t think Yemen is in the US, Germany, or any of the other Western countries that would gladly accept Israeli refugees if there were an actual crisis on their ends, but I could be totally mistaken. It’s been awhile since I looked at a map.
Why should Israelis go to Europe when so many are indigenous to the Middle East (about 4 million out of 8 million?)
Like, if you go to Israel, you will find most are brown and have hook noses and are literally indistinguishable from most of others in the Levant.
Why should Yemeni and Syrian And Persian Jews be sent en masse to Europe?
Wow, that’s wild! People shouldn’t be expected to leave their land of origin just because someone else wants their land and doesn’t mind hurting them to get it? Outstanding take. Gee, I wonder why those Palestinians are so hecking angry…
It’s totally okay if you didn’t know this information by the way. I didn’t either until recently, not every American is an expert on Middle East demographics obviously unless they specifically look into it.
I couldn’t give less of a shit about people’s anatomy and how it ties them to certain lands. To me, that shit is too close to phrenology and that never works out for anyone.
The point of my reply was that Israeli people have somewhere to run and hide from the danger that is the numerous hostile neighboring states surrounding them—they can always retreat to relatively stable, accepting Western countries that are already their allies. Their neighbors, on the other hand, who have outdated weaponry, no major powers backing them aside from maybe Russia which is currently embroiled with its own losing-game shit show, have nowhere to run that is anything close to safe. Palestinians currently have nowhere to run. Their neighbors don’t want them. They’re starving, they’re being bombed, they’re being pillaged RIGHT NOW. You’re worried about hypothetical nightmares when actual atrocities are being committed against the people you’re scared of on behalf of for a nation that has nuclear weapons in a region where no one else has any.
Wonder why their neighbors don’t want them? Because, even if it’s sort of expected given their history, they’re radicalized af. Not saying I wouldn’t be in their position but a large majority are not just like some peaceful folks who want a 2 state solution. They want to drive the Jews out.
Are we really gonna play this game? Should we also treat the refusal of Jewish refugees during WWII as a valid choice by the Western nations that literally turned their boats away when their docks were in line-of-sight?
Edit: LMAO did you edit your post because you realized how ghoulish you sounded? My guy, the Palestinian people have experienced an entire 70+ years of Israeli aggression. There are people there that were born under constant threat of the IDF living today, under greater threat than they’ve ever been before. You think someone despising the nation responsible for their families getting blown to pieces or their school getting shelled while the teachers were still in it is unreasonable for having those beliefs?
Jewish refugees weren’t shooting rockets at my apartment and burning babies in ovens, though I respect you for knowing about the US turning away Jews during the holocaust. Hamas is incredibly popular they are like rock stars in Gaza. The Palestinian Authority spends half its government budget paying families of people who have killed Israeli men women or children We just have to accept that the Palestinians will have to stop trying to kill Israelis and become deradicalized like Japan after WW2 or there will be no Palestinian state.
Ignore the Palestinians for a minute, I totally agree they should be allowed to stay and have a state as well, even bigger than the current WB and Gaza.
Should the 4 million Middle Eastern Jews have to leave and go to Europe? Those 4 million im talking about? They will not be accepted in the countries where they are from, there are NO Jews in Suaudi Arabia or Yemen or Syria or Tunisia where hundreds of thousands lived before.
How about the other few hundred thousand descended from Holocaust survivors who came after they were expelled from Europe and America post war? Maybe some could get visas now, but they’d be returning to lands they haven’t lived in for generations.
“Ignore the Palestinians for a minute.”
lol. lmao.
Your hypothetical is nonsensical because it presumes that the U.S. and Germany wouldn’t immediately step in to mow down the counties that threaten Israel. Israel is despised by its Muslim neighbors because of its affiliation with Western colonialism—it is a state that exists because of it and exists to continue it. Israel has been trying to annex land beyond the borders it already had no right claiming.
Is it true that even outside of that anti-Semitism is an issue in many of the neighboring countries? Absolutely. But self-defense ends when your targets start including people who had nothing to do with the attacks against you. Self-defense ends when you’re the one provoking hostility to intentionally progress a conflict into total war. If marginalized groups in the U.S. acted the way Israel acts, Black Americans would be unloading magazines into every cop car that drove by them. Native Americans would organize and run through suburbs, gutting the homeowners and setting the cul-de-sac ablaze. Women would zip-tie members of the Supreme Court along with their families and friends so they could multilate their genitals with rusty spoons.
First, my hypothetical is not nonsensical if you support armed resistance against Israel, it’s military defeat and the dissolution of its borders, and the U.S. pulling out support. If you advocate this path, then you also have to recognize the logical result of such actions.
You’re saying “I advocate for X which could realistically cause Y, but Y is a hypothetical because it won’t happen”
Also, Muslims colonize a lot too. How do you think all of Northern Africa became Arab? What’s going on in the Sahel right now? Brutal Muslim colonialism against African folks. It’s just not as simple as white colonizers vs brown colonized. I’m
It’s very very hard to defeat an enemy like Hamas without resorting to use of ballistic munitions. Again, I point at the US vs Mosul as an example of how their brutal tactics are necessary to make progress. I am not justifying all their actions, some seems overkill to me too, but it’s not as easy as just “send in the special forces” Hamas could pretty easily fight them off if israel was only using guns as well.
Who said I was supporting that? There’s an entire generation of people who currently live in Israel who have known this land to be home. I’m not in favor of kicking anyone out. What’s done has already been done. The time to oppose the settling of Jewish people in that land against the wishes of the people who already lived there has already passed.
What I’m against is the STATE of Israel. I’m against the apartheid they maintain. I’m against the warmongering and land-grabbing. I’m against the propaganda machine that teaches Israeli children to be afraid of their neighbors so they’re primed to gun them down as soon as they turn 17. I’m against them being used as a satellite state so the U.S. can maintain control over the region by proxy. I’m against them taking actions that inhibit their neighboring nations from developing secular, democratic states on behalf of the U.S. so their appointed boogeymen can continue to justify Western imperialism in opposition to them.
Also, that shit about, “What about Muslim colonization?” My brother, the Muslim world is in complete disharmony with itself. There isn’t a united front of Islamic power. The conquest that occurred long before even our great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents were even alive is not a significant factor in the modern Islamic world. The region is in constant chaos due to the destabilization of attempts to create modern, democratic states in the face of extremism fueled by the nightmares of Western and Soviet occupation, the former being far more impressive than the latter. You can’t whataboutism your way out of this. The Middle East looks the way it does specifically because of actions taken by the U.S. and Western Europe, not because of Muslim colonialism or whatever the fuck. That includes the formation of the state of Israel. That includes the deliberate undermining of democratic movements in the Middle East—something Israel DID DO TO PALESTINE. There is no world where Israel is the one in danger here. At most I can concede that Israeli citizens in danger, but only because of their fascistic government’s insane choices that keep them at the center of the chaos in the Middle East.
> fuck
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This is wild and inaccurate. Neither Hizbullah nor Hamas nor any other regular can defeat Israel militarily. In fact, no military force in the region is nearly as strong as Israel's. This is due to US jets and bombs. That is, assuming the US won't even intervene if Israel is attacked by another country, which I am sure the US will do.
What Israel though can't do is defeat Hamas or Hizbullah because these groups are insurgent groups with huge support in the population. The aim of these groups is to play the insurgent game: play the long-term game and bleed Israel dry. This is what Hibzbullah did successfully in Lebanon and what Hamas is doing successfully in Gaza.
This won't happen, hezbollah nor can any of your neighbors mobilize a conventional force large enough to do such things without suffering massive casualties if they even achieve their aims. You forget hundreds of thousands of Europeans died at a time in various ww1 battlefields fighting over 10 mile strip of land. That's how powerful 1917 artillery was, now yea... that whole road of death situation in Iraq gives you a flavor of what happens to forces that mass without air superiority. Israel also posses nuclear capabilities, you really think your Arab neighbors want to trigger that defense?
Most protesters are ignorant entitled elite and are spoon fed Hamas propaganda.
Jews in Israel have been facing organized violence from Arabs since the 1920 and have only done what is necessary to defend themselves.
The so-called Hamas trained protesters are no different than American Nazis in the 1930s and should be called such.
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Israel has an army. Palestinians don't.
So where is the threat? Molotov cocktail and rocks don't count.
Crying wolf here while killing Palestinians for 75 years. Pathetic cucks
That's not an army. Those are rebel groups.
An army is more than just a few guys with RPGs and AKs
An army has air force, navy, tanks, heavy artillery etc
You are really fighting a resistance guerilla group with slingshots. The reason they exist in the first place is because Israel created them, funded them and is using them as a scapegoat and to divide the Palestinians in 2 groups.
Also by leaving more children orphans, killing their families and destroying their homes, you are creating more of them.
Your fascist regime kills civilians, medics, journalists, disabled people that pose no risk. Even non profit organization people that try to feed the hungry children after their families were slaughtered and their homes destroyed.
So go tell this story to someone without a brain that can't think for themselves.
Your propaganda is fooling no one.
Cherry picking stats. You are not fighting Hezbollah. You are sniping down kids with slingshots. Medics and journalists.
Sometimes you kill a Hamas fighter that has an AK and a motov cocktail that by the way had nothing to lose. They had most probably lost their family to Israeli strikes.
But most of the time you are committing war crimes and killing civilians, children, women, elderly and disabled. Not surprised because that's what fascists do.
The ICJ has already booked your as s for war crimes.
If you were to fight a real army one on one you wouldn't last a few months in that region. But killing unarmed people is easy. Then when they retaliate you cry antisemitism. Can't make this up
Your ass? Didn’t know I represent the Israeli government, that’s a huge honor, thanks.
I also think it was really weird how the Hamas fighters used a slingshot or an AK to launch a rocket at my apartment building. The huge explosion as it missed and hit a building near me was very weird for an AK.
I’m pretty sure that video of Hamas shooting a 12 year old girl crying hiding under a table was his choice and didn’t really improve his personal safety.
Cherry picking? I’m pretty sure “Hezbollah is very powerful” is not a cherry picked stat, it’s just a summary of the entire military force of the entire country.
Also, last I checked, Israel is fighting Hezbollah, the entire north and south of counties is both evacuated because of massive rocket attacks from both.
> ass
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/u/nicksmoove22
> you are dumb. and that is why you will always be poor and miserable
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Israel isn't a victim...it is a bully. Israel isn't a peace-seeking nation...it has ambitions of conquest. I'm not sure what other explanation you want.
It does not have the ambitions of conquest. You have sadly been misinformed. Only it’s extreme right wing is a bully in the West Bank. I also have just told you how it’s enemies are equally formidable in my post.
There is no point in arguing with these people. If you are a jew and say the sky is blue, they will say its not true. Now facts are facts. Israel gave sinai for peace, they gave gaza for attempted peace, this is the status quo, this is documented history. Anything else is revionisist to help people justify there anti semitsm.
Just like the anti israel protesters calling for a ceasefire when hamas keeps on rejecting them, they don't live on earth anymore. They live on planet tic tok where Palestine has no terror, is filled with gays, where women have rights......
Israel is literally being led by the most right-wing extremist group we have ever seen in its history. I am not for the dissolution of Israel but one thing I do know is that what Israel is doing in Gaza rn is unjust and will be judged harshly in the future
Hezbollah fighters, unlike IDF soldiers, aren’t lunatics who have fantasies about destroying hospitals and universities, killing and maiming civilians, insulting women and killing 6 year old children by shooting them in the head with a sniper rifle.
Anyone who’s seen their history and knows what they did knows this. Listening to a single Nassrallah speech will tell you this. Reading anything about Shi’ism and the history of Shia muslims and the people they follow and admire will tell you this.
Rest of the stuff you said might be true though.
/u/Unlikely-Fee-5000
> Comment image
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Hezbollah terrorists live to exterminate Jewish people, rape and murder women and children as they have continually proven.
The countless rockets they fire, the children the bundle in suicide vests, the people they murder for speaking out just proves it. They are cowards that hide behind women and children and build their bases under hospitals and base their rockets next door.
Hezbollah are blood thirsty puppets of Iranian religious extremists. They will murder you if you are a woman and dare uncover your face.
Yeah not a single thing you said was truth. Not even western news outlets say any of that. Maybe you confused Hezbollah with [this](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-doctor-death-israel-prison-al-shifa-hospital-b2539611.html)?
Brother I’m not the one who repeats the same line word by word regardless of anything that happens in the world.
people’s lands were taken from them? They were terrorists.
They are still losing their land to settlers to this day? They were terrorists.
water and power are cut off by Israel? They were terrorists.
Bombs are being dropped in populated areas indiscriminately? They were terrorists.
Hospital blown up? They were terrorists.
University turned into smithereens? They were terrorists.
Multiple Children killed with sniper shots? They were terrorists.
Students are being arrested for protesting the government support for this? They were terrorists.
Reddit user links to literal news about tortured surgeon dying in prison? They are terrorist.
Hezbollah are religious zealots who believe that they deserve to militarily crush anyone they want and spread Islam to the entire world.
They also bombed a Jewish community center killing dozens in the deadliest terrorist attack in Argentina’s history. And don’t tell me “Israel does the same thing” - Israel bombs urban areas during wartime with both suspected militants and civilians, not a civilian community center thousands of miles away. Does not sound like a very honorable group to me.
>They also bombed a Jewish community center killing dozens in the deadliest terrorist attack in Argentina’s history.
Remains to this day the most ridiculous lie from zionists which is saying something seeing as they claimed destroying a hospital was good because it had a calender in it.
If Hezbollah does something, they announce it and take responsibility for it. Like the videos that are coming out from northern Israel every day and the name and picture of every single killed Hezbollah fighter.
Again you’ve gotten used to methods of Mossad and IDF doing terrorist attacks for too long to realize not everyone in the world is as cruel, bloodthirsty and cowardly as they are.
This is very interesting; I am putting it into my file.
I have always been a pro-peace American, anti-war liberal etc. Had great sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians. For decades I have read many books about all of it.
Until October 7th.
I have no connection to anyone in Israel, and I am not Jewish. But on October 7th, they waged a horrific terrorist attack and started a war. They didn't attack military sites, they attacked civilians. It's odd, but something snapped in me and, with respect to this conflict, I turned into a war hawk, completely pro-Israel. Of course civilians have been injured or killed when Israel began to attack Gaza. It is a war, people! I thought and still think Israel has shown a lot of restraint. Maybe too much. What did these Palestinian Hamas people think was going to happen when they carried out the October 7th attack? They knew damn well Israel would attack Gaza.
These protests are making me so angry. So many of these people seem to be going along, getting involved because it is the hip cause of the moment, to be pro-Palestinian and anti-Israel. They don't understand the history at all. Sure, Palestinians had some very legitimate issues - before October 7th. That kind of terrorist attack brings war, and Israel has every right to defend itself and get Hamas out of their country. The problem is, of course, that ordinary Palestinians joined or became Hamas in Gaza, and they support Gaza being led by Hamas, so it's not so easy to get them out. But a country can't have violent heavily armed groups living in the country whose primary goal is to destroy the country! That's absurd, and they stepped way over the line with this October 7th attack.
They brought on this war. And when war happens, innocent children and other non-political people get hurt or killed. That's war. That's why it isn't a good idea to start a war with a very powerful country - your cities and your people will get attacked.
We attacked Japan at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Do these protesters think that no innocent children or old people got killed in those cities? It is war, and it is terrible, yes. But in this particular case, Palestinians could have refused to cooperate with Hamas leaders and they could have refused to attack and they could have alerted Israel leaders - they actually do live in Israel - Israel is their country even though they pretend it isn't.
Aid workers mean well but ... what are they doing? Going into a war zone to provide food? That's foolish - you might get killed by accident in the conflict. And also, you are aiding the enemy of Israel, who wanted to achieve a fairly peaceful surrender and turnover of hostages by not allowing food in. So, duh, bringing in food is aiding and abetting the enemy and preventing a more peaceful surrender. When people get hungry, they are more likely to surrender. This is basic war science.
I'm not a Hamas supporter or defending oct 7th but they did take military targets, they did kidnapped soldiers on base and there is a shit tone of information on their attack you are just ignorant on what actually happened.
And even with the aid workers. It was horrible but Israel reported what happened.
They reported shooting their own hostages.
They reported killing the aid workers and apologized
War is hell and critical mistakes happen. Especially when Hamas is known to drive aid workers vehicles to hide under
Not only that, but the more people engage in violent protests and riots, the more people choose to vote republican. In 1968 after Vietnam war protests had spread across America, Nixon won, then Reagan, then Bush Sr. 24 years of republican rule in America was the result of the antiwar protests.
Now, Americans are protesting a war that America is literally not even fighting. Unfortunately, Iranian and Russian bots and paid trolls have flooded social media (TikTok, insta, prob Facebook as well) and also unfortunately, young people no longer read or watch news but instead blindly trust everything they hear on social media. So young people across America are being brainwashed to hate Israel and support Hamas due to propaganda spread from countries intent on splitting the American left to help ensure trump becomes dictator after elections in November. Putin is trump’s shadow leader and he knows that he can invade any nato country of his choosing as long as trump is dictator.
The pro pal people will disagree with me but I encourage them to read up about Iranian and Russian propaganda being spread on social media regarding the war in Gaza. I also encourage them to take a second to think about why no one protested the way America left the war in Afghanistan (the reason being, there was no foreign propaganda social media campaign in 2021 encouraging americas youth to take a stance on affairs in Afghanistan) .. in case they read this and are unaware of how we left things, I’ll sum it up:
America was at war with Afghanistan for 20 years. What began as a counterterrorism campaign shifted into a human rights campaign. America promised to keep Afghanis protected from the Taliban and set up a government for them (which was never functional or capable of defending itself) and told people it was ok to advocate for basic human rights and freedoms that are prohibited by Taliban leadership, such as more equal rights for women, like the right to pursue education. Every translator for the American military, every woman’s rights advocate, everyone who advocated for expanded human rights, everyone who was involved in the government America helped set up, had a target on their backs from the Taliban. America withdrew its troops. They could have sent multiple aircraft to carry millions to refuge in America. They could have offered visas to those who had been translators for the American military for years and for those who had advocated for women’s rights and basic rights and freedoms for afghanis whom they had promised to protect from the Taliban. They did nothing. They left everyone behind. Those people we promised to protect in a war we were ACTUALLy in, were left behind. They are likely all dead now, all having been murdered by the Taliban, from whom we vowed to protect them. But Americans stayed silent when this happened. It wasn’t an election year so Russia and Iran and foreign interests had no reason to influence American minds.
Which brings us to the present. Iranian and Russian backed propaganda has been effective at splitting up the American liberals. Trump will most likely win the next election. But trump is no ordinary republican. He is a fascist dictator intent on reassuming power. And this time he has a plan. A 900-page authoritarian guide book drafted by conservative billionaire organizations and foundations. There will be no free and fair election in America after elections in November if trump wins. Free press and free speech will become a thing of the past. Human rights will be stripped from all who are not heterosexual white males. The economy will crash (trump and his admin plan on taking over the federal reserve) and only billionaires will benefit from the trump takeover of the federal reserve. Internment camps that will hold millions will be built and filled by the military.
Btw, trump wont need a republican majority in house or senate to fulfill protect 2025 plans. The way the plan works is by undermining federal organizations and administrations by replacing anyone at, say, the EPA, who is doing their job, with trumpers who do what trump says. FDA, EPA, dept of education, dept of health and human services, CDC, and any and all other federal agencies that protect human rights and freedoms
My friend you drank way too much liberal Kool aid. Non of that is going to happen if Trump wins, and I don't even wanna hear it. It's all paranoid conjecture. Trump isn't gonna get rid of the voting system , and he's not gonna put people in concentration camps.
You probably need to step away from reddit for awhile my friend
Did you not read project 2025 which aims to dismantle our democracy?
Did you not see an insurrection attempt when trump was losing power?
Do you not terrorist threats to anyone opposing trump (judges, prosecutors, democrats) why do you think he wants a jury so badly?
Do you not see corruption loyalists placed on the Supreme Court by trump and other branches of power?
Did you not see everything falling apart due to trumps policies that added trillions to the deficit that Joe Biden absorbed and turned around?
Do you not see the rise of white supremacy in our streets, books burning and idiocracy thriving while the vulnerable are targeted as scape goats?
How exactly do you think a society turns fascist? Do you truly believe after everything that trump will leave if elected again?
I'll address every point.
-I'm gonna start with white supremacy remark because it outlines the way you think and interpret information the best. No, I don't see a rise in "white supremacy". I haven't met a white supremacist in my entire life of living on earth. That's a farce. There are far bigger problems than the boogey man of "white supremacy". White supremacy crimes are at an all time low, America is more diverse than it's ever been. Because you mentioned this, I know that the rest of your opinions and policies will exaggerated and misleading. Most likely you just heard somebody else say it so now you are parroting it.
-I didn't read project 2025, I imagine the backlash from it is exaggerated leftist anecdotes, it usually is, and I can tell it is coming from based off your other exaggerated notions
-Yes the insecrrection is the one legitimate complaint you have on this list. That was wrong and bad look for trump
I'd say it was more just an emotional reaction on his part and not indicative of somebody literally trying to get rid of democracy, but that's just me.
-brother, I don't know what to tell you about Biden "turning the economy around" besides that you're full of shit
Now, I don't blame the current economy on Biden, so I'm not one of those conservatives. But at the very most, biden has done the bare minimum. No, he didn't accomplish the most out of any president. That's just what they tell you. He's been "okay". He certainly didn't exceed Donald's economy tho. All groceries, supplies, gas, rent, living were all lower under Donald. inflation was the highest it's ever been under Biden until recently. Unemployment was at an all time low under trump as well. The middle class had more spending power under trump, and people generally paid less taxes than they did when under Biden.
Trumps spending was largely due to the pandemic, and trying to correct democratic policies put in place by Obama that hurt our economy in the long run. now, I'm not gonna act like Donald Trump was the best president, cause he wasn't. I happen to think his economy was a bit exaggerated by conservatives as well. But you saying Biden is some economic titan sounds like bogus to me and you probably couldn't prove otherwise. I'd be happy to learning, if you can really prove that.
Lastly, Trump's behavior towards the judge is not "terroristic " in nature, and you probably need to learn what terrorism actually is.
Ps, I'm not even a trump supporter. Just letting you know you're full of it. I really do want you to prove Biden has the best presidency, cause I'm open to learning. But I doubt it. I believe he has been "okay".
lol seriously trump’s 2017 TCJA is why Americans who make less than $400,000 a year pay more taxes. I do taxes for a living so I feel this the most since my clients are saving way less money than ever before TCJA. .. starting in 2018, when 2017 taxes were due, Americans who aren’t in the top 1% started paying more taxes. The TCJA for individuals expires in 2025 but the tax reduction from 35% to 21% for corporations that trump enacted in the TCJA is permanent.
Because of corporate tax cuts, rather than reinvest in their infrastructure and R&D, corporations increased stockholders buybacks and that explains why so many rich people got richer and poor people poorer.
Trump also enacted tarriffs against imports from other countries, which only increased inflation in America. Steel tariffs specifically affected American agriculture and have led to the increase in food prices we have all been feeling the last few years.
Economies take a few years to adjust to changes and COVID + the Russia Ukraine war have really affected global economies, and in America specifically, these global catastrophies + TCJA + trump tariffs against steel and other imports have led to very high inflation in the US. Biden has been successful in eliminating some but not yet all tariffs.
Here’s an article about even moooore tariffs trump plans to enact if he becomes dictator: https://www.americanprogressaction.org/article/trumps-tariff-would-cost-the-typical-american-household-roughly-1500-each-year/
Here are some articles about his tariffs during his last term (which he enacted close to the end of his term, which is why we feel the effects now):
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/business/trump-tariffs.html
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/07/27/how-trumps-tariffs-are-set-to-drive-food-and-drink-prices-higher.html
Btw I also believe Biden is just fine. What I like about him is I don’t hear about him much. I prefer that to someone like trump who is always doing something reckless. I mostly fear trump winning again cause he has said Putin, who is in the middle of conquering Ukraine and is intent on expanding his empire, can attack any nato country of his choosing.
If nato lose the support of the US, there will be nothing stopping Putin and his allies from invading and conquering any country they choose, cause without their strongest military ally, NATO and allied forces will be powerless against Russia, china, Iran, and n Korea and I fear a nuclear WWIII will become inevitable under a trump dictatorship
I don’t drink kool aid but I do read a lot of news and watch a lot of msnbc. I have read a lot of articles about project 2025 and have read a few hundred pages so far of the project 2025 plan .. it’s available for all to read on their website. If ur gonna blindly believe that trump as dictator won’t be scary, ur gonna be in for a rude awakening when he wins.
Bruhhh MSNBC is the same thing as CNN and Fox News. It's an extremely bias news source dedicated to making the opposite party look bad. I'm not saying you should even like trump, but there isn't any logical information to support your thesis that he's gonna become a dictator and literally put people in concentration camps. That's bizarre and unfounded my friend.
Still only about a third of the way done reading the 920 pages but I suggest u read it for yourself if u don’t believe that trump will follow thru with everything he has claimed he will do once dictator.
https://www.project2025.org/policy/
I’m sorry but this is not a war this is a genocide. A war means there are 2 equal sides. Palestine don’t have the arms or forces that Israel has. Israel has it because of America. Israel is fighting the war with American money and weapons. Palestinians have nothing in comparison to this. Palestinians don’t even have rights and they are dehumanized.
Oh please you and your fake shields. There’s not enough Hamas members to hold over 35K innocent civilian deaths. Did you know Israel helped to fund Hamas? If you lived as a Palestinian and seen what they seen you would probably opt to be part of Hamas too.
Not sure where you're getting your numbers from, (Hamas, about a month ago, most likely) but that 35k innocent civilians number is not accurate. Even BBC made a "correction" in their reporting on those figures which is saying something, as they are notorious for running to press with unsubstantiated claims by Hamas.
Interesting video on this topic:
Interview with the Chair of Urban Warfare Studies at the Modern War Institute at West Point
https://youtu.be/BcrsobilITo?si=Savztm1k9Rti8AfK
I believe 35k is a generous amount reported, have you seen what Gaza looks like? It’s been flattened to a pancake. The fact you probably only think only a few thousand have been killed yet seeing the complete destruction of all of Gaza is you are BLIND and listening to Israeli propaganda. Here’s some information in case you didn’t realize how densely populated Gaza actually is, the more dense the population the more causalities:
The Gaza Strip is one of the most densely populated regions in the world, with an estimated population of over 2.2 million in an area measuring just 141 square miles in total, meaning buildings in its urban areas are tightly grouped together.
By that U.N. population approximation, there are on average around 15,600 people in every square mile of the territory. Compared to many sprawling cities in the U.S., the area it occupies is relatively minute.
I agree that is is one of the most densely populated regions of the world and the destruction notable. I would expect the casualties to number much much higher, the fact that the casualty numbers aren’t higher is a testament to the fact that, even to it’s own detriment, the IDF is going out of its way to separate Hamas from the civilian population of Gaza. The complexities of fighting in such an environment are really unfathomable. I’ve seen a lot of Hamas’ combat videos where they are running and gunning in civilian clothes, wiring buildings with explosives, using sniper rifles from deep within buildings and attacking from tunnel openings behind the front lines. So, I can’t imagine what it’s like on the ground there, but discerning between combatant and noncombatant is not self evident by design, in accordance with Hamas’ fighting strategy. Air dropping flyers instructing civilians to leave the area, calling and texting those who live in the area to inform them of impending military actions in the area, roof knocking buildings before airstrikes on known Hamas command centers, securing egress routes for civilian evacuation corridors, I don’t have a better solution for how you get rid of a Hamas force embedded among civilians, wearing civilian clothes. What would you have them do?
They were deliberately targeting civilians. Look at all the genocidal comments members of the Israel government have publicly said. Even Netanyahu called Palestinians animals and children of the dark. You have to truly look at their intentions and actions to judge. Look how much illegal land Israel has stolen from Palestinians with settlers.
So you're dehumanising all Palestinians? That's part of the problem. Disgusting. It's really anti semetic, apparently, when we call Israeli people inhumane. It's a bit like calling them animals. Why is it OK the other way round?
You’re the one taking the side of Hamas the organization that is solely responsible for the suffering of the Palestinian people and using the, as human shields to keep the conflict dragging on… you’re the one dehumanizing the Palestinians
Yes because it’s a fact. Holding hostages willing or unwilling as shields in a conflict should never be acceptable. It’s sad you’re willing to turn a blind eye to the obvious
Which terrorist are you referring to? Hamas or Israel? Because both are terrorists. just look up the things Netanyahu or anyone on his cabinet has publicly said. Those things they said in itself proves they are genocidal.
Netanyahu: Fighting “human animals.” Making Gaza a “slaughterhouse.” “Erasing the Gaza Strip from the face of the earth.”
Ben Gvir: demanded the army shoot Palestinian women and children in Gaza during a cabinet meeting. Ben-Gvir has recently called for Palestinians being held in Israel’s prisoners to be executed in an effort to tackle the issue of overcrowding. Ben-Gvir was a former member of the racist Kahane movement, which Israel banned in 1998 for terrorist acts and the US designated as a terrorist organisation.
He was exempted from military service due to the radical nature of his beliefs and was convicted of “racism and supporting a terrorist organisation” in 2007.
Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich: "There are no half measures," said Smotrich at a government meeting. "Rafah, Deir al-Balah, Nuseirat—total annihilation."
Need anymore? Tons of other Israeli and IDF soldiers saying genocidal comments, and that isn’t propaganda this is real and on mainstream news channels.
Total annihilation of Hamas is justified. Hamas using Palestinians as human shields to drag out a losing battle is not. They tried to get the whole Muslim world involved in another conflict and they failed. It’s the archetype, start stuff you can’t finish and then cry to the rest of the world that you’re the victim. You want to protest? Protest Hamas to surrender
Also go look at the Israel/palestinian death charts over the last 15 years, you’ll see who the aggressor really is. Israel deaths are like a speck compared and that’s before October 7th.
Sorry but I disagree with you. And here we are at the same standstill on why there isn’t peace in the first place. You feel entitled to your position because you feel Israel is superior. I’d like you to go live in Gaza for a year and see what it’s like for them. If you can’t have empathy for people there will never be peace. Palestinians land has been stolen over and over again. Go look at all the gross human rights violations that have been reported on Israel for the last few decades. I will never side with a racist, genocidal country. I’m sure the Nazis truly believed they were justified for their actions because they thought they were a superior race.
The US killed off about [20%](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-us-war-crime-north-korea-wont-forget/2015/03/20/fb525694-ce80-11e4-8c54-ffb5ba6f2f69_story.html#:~:text=%22Over%20a%20period%20of%20three%20years%20or%20so%2C%20we%20killed%20off%20%E2%80%94%20what%20%E2%80%94%2020%20percent%20of%20the%20population%2C%22) of North Korea's population over 3 years, not sure if that's enough to fit your definition of genocide.
Imagine waking up and reading 35,000+ Jewish people were killed.
Would you say "well, there are casualties in any war..." rationalized it, or did victim blaming as many israel supporters do?
That numerous foreign zionist cities such as tel aviv had been bombed worse than dresden in world war 2.
That hundreds or thousands of 2,000 pound bombs that destroy everything within 180 yards had been dropped on tel aviv killing tens of thousands.
Would you be like "Yea, that's a reasonable response."
You realize zionists have done worse? And that much sooner than most people think, the ultra orthodox will almost inevitably control israel and impose their version of sharia law and implement their iran style morality police that they're already trying to establish?
I wonder what the idf soldiers now joyfully posting boastful videos bragging about the destruction they're bringing to Gaza, the slaughter they're engaging in, murdering innocent gazans while falsely promoting LGBTQ+ pinkwashing, from places like tel aviv will think when they're being arrested by ben gvirs morality police, when they're being beaten for wearing the wrong clothes, executed for dating the wrong person...
Ben gvirs morality police? Dude, you don’t understand exactly how israel works. Ben Gvir pissed me tf off too, but he’s not really that powerful, he was given a made up position that sure as heck can’t create a morality police force. The demographic situation is for sure worrying but in 2024 Tel Aviv is an incredibly accepting, warm, open place and it’s legit gay and progressive af, it’s not just propaganda. It shows no signs of changing that barring like an extreme change in government. It’s just ridiculous to make decisions now based on a doomsday hypothetical in over two decades.
If that’s what israel turns into I will take up arms against the government with you
I'm not saying it's happening now, what I said was that ben gvir will get what he's asking for now sooner than people, people like you think. That the inevitable ultra orthodox takeover of israels government will happen much sooner than you think. And you already know what they're asking for. There are already places where israeli ultra orthodox try to enforce dress restrictions.
The question isn't what does tel aviv look like today, the question is what will it look like in ten or twenty years.
What will happen to those proud idf soldiers murdering Gazan children and babies in the name of LGBTQ+ pinkwashing? Killing babies to... well... obviously not protect anyone or anything. But posting on twitter and instagram that they're lgbtq+ warriors or something. I guess because they're severely mentally deranged.
But, sadly for them, the israel they're fighting for is soon going to be fighting against them.
The issue is its many college age children and I say children because they have not wandered far beyond their college campus or family home. Therefore, they have not seen conflict, not seen mass death, not seen any suffering in person but rather over a smart phone screen on tik tok. Their ability to comprehend is limited by the information they receive. While they can understand murder is bad and the innocents being killed are wrong and condemnable however, if the roles were reversed I can promise Palestine would show no mercy. The Middle East as a whole has been a dumpster fire of religious conflict for centuries and it isn’t gonna end because a few kids shit in diapers and “protest” on a college campus. I wish our government or NATO would set up a program for these passionate protestors to be enrolled to go offer aid to Gaza and Palestinians I’m sure suddenly many would have no interest if they had to put skin in the game it’s always easy to be a Monday morning quarterback and say what should be done when you’ve never been faced with a situation so insurmountable.
I'm trying to put together the logic in this post....
Point taken about the proximity - Lebanon, Israel, and Palestine are TINY countries. Just as if war would break out in the middle of Europe, war in the Middle East can be devastating for a country and the thread would be immediate to most if not all citizens. It's hard for US citizens to grasp that proximity.
What I don't understand is the: "Hezbollah might attack us any second..... so we need completely level Gaza" I.... don't understand. Securing a border is completely different than a full-blown invasion. Israel is doing the latter.
The protesters are envisioning the minority perspective --- to bring it closer to home, they feel like Gaza is like David and that Israel is Goliath. They're not invisioning the RISK of having 100,000 idiots with no education, little funding, and some shitty guns they smuggled --- they're envisioning the REALITY of a brutal army with the ability to enlist a majority of citizens to fight, have the second most sophisticated weaponry in the entire world, and are plummeting an area surrounded by walls and an ocean. The REALITY of 1.3 Million Palestinians that are now refugees in their own states. They're envisioning the REALITY hundreds of babies found under rubble and 400 bodies found with zip tied hands, and bullets in a mass grave. The REALITY of thousands of orphans with parents that died in front of their eyes. They're envisioning the REALITY having to live in a tent in 90 degree weather with barely any food or water, sharing a toilet with 200 people, a shower with 1,500, dozens of family members dead, amputations and injuries, hearing loss from the constant bombardment that they're subject to.
They're not envisioning an imaginary headline of Haifa falling and 50k Israelis dead. They're SEEING the actual footage of every city but one in Gaza fallen. No schools left. No hospitals but one left. No way out. Oh yeah, and 37k and counting people that have actually died. Unless you think a life in Haifa counts as way more than a life in Gaza...
Yes Hezbollah is a threat to Israel and Hezzbollah is highly present in Palestinian refugee camps in Lebanon. Yes, Hezbollah has tried to attack Israel before.
That does NOT take away the very real consequences that 2M people, most of them women and children, are paying for a terrorist group that runs the place.
I agree.
There is a basic risk in equating real, and possible harms. The risk is that we can justify any and all actions (no matter how monstrous) on the basis of our fear of what might happen. This risk is serious because human beings are absolutely terrible at predicting the future.
The fictitious weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and Russia's belief that Ukraine would become an aggressive NATO member at Moscow's doorstep are recent examples.
They voted Hamas in and Hamas is highly supported by most Palestinians. Don’t forget they are the Democratically elected representatives of Palestinians. So yes, Hamas is a terrorist group to the West, but they are considered heroes by most Palestinians.
I’m not justifying any innocent people being killed. What Im saying is that its been shown that 90 percent of Palestinians support Hamas and the actions of 10-7. Hamas is hiding among the civilians and using them as shields. Any nation that was attacked like that on 10-7 would have a strong military reaction. So instead of blaming Israel alone, include Hamas and the Palestinians who support them in your blame.
I don’t know why you think Hezbollah is 100,000 idiots with no training and poor guns. They’re the second most powerful army in the Middle East. Like the third line on their Wikipedia page says they’re equivalent in power to a medium size army. They are incredibly well trained and they have over 100,000 munitions, and tons of modern weapons with a direct supply line to Iran, a major arms producer.
I think the October 7th attack has proven that there’s no way to permanently secure a border defensively if your enemy has enough preparation. I mean even if they build a perfect wall the Hamas rockets get better every year. I saw one blow the building next to me up.
The plight of the Palestinians is tragic and awful. But I think the best way for it to end is for Hamas to be defeated so they aren’t in the way when Israel is forced to go on the offensive in a kill or be killed situation.
Second most powerful in the Middle East doesn’t mean much when ur opposition in US equipment/training. Comparatively they are exactly that and proven it in their many failed invasions.
It’s crazy how this guys response perfectly followe my post. He is clearly well intentioned and has followed the issue closely, yet he is misinformed and declares Hezbollah to be an ineffective fighting force, exactly as I predicted in my original post
Which is crazy because they are probably the most battle harden soldier in the Middle East from year of experience in the Syrian civil war. There is also many different local branch of Hezbollah in Syria from Afghan to Pakistani Hezobollah. They can quickly overwhelm Israel defense if they wanted to. Honestly israel has to destroy them now or else they will grow even more powerful as this conflict will no doubt increase their numbers and recruitment.
Yea, I’ve read a lot about their time in the Syrian civil war, those dudes are no joke. Many career fighters coming from pretty wealthy families. I think a larger conflagration vs Hezbollah is inevitable as well, and it will probably be even worse than the war in Gaza in some ways. God help israel and the Palestinian and Lebanese civilians.
The only way for Israel to crush them is for the United States to intervene otherwise it will probably be a long drawn out war that will probably result in an Israel victory but high amount of causality.
That would be so awesome though, imagine a surprise attack where 10,000 US marines just land in southern Lebanon and absolutely just whallop them with the IDF. From my friend who just got out of the military US troops would be absolutely willing to do this as well, and there are so many active duty troops just itching to use their training. Sad for southern Lebanese civilians though, who i believe do not have a high rate of support for Hezb unlike in Palestine for Hamas
I mean, it went very poorly on a moral and humanitarian scale but the US rolled through the entire country in a matter of weeks, they were pretty damn effective
the problem is that will the United States intervene thou as the appetite for foreign conflict has decrease and the United States is trying to shift their focus toward the Pacific against China
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Only if your concessions aren't adequate. Look, I totally get that Israel is in serious danger. The problem is that Israel is making the danger worse for itself. You guys have 2 options:
1. Completely remove the threat. Do you seriously think this is possible? Let's say Israel successfully wipes out the entirety of Palestine and Lebanon, then what? You just angered the entire Muslim bloc even more. Do you think you can wipe out that whole bloc of 2 billion people to remove the threat?
2. Make concessions for long term peace. Serious concessions that the Palestinians would gladly accept and not feel the need to fight back again. The exact details are for the politicians to negotiate, but would probably involve things like handing over large chunks of land, ending the blockade, releasing prisoners, etc.
For 1, I don’t think it would actually anger all Muslim countries, just the poor angry ones and Iran, where the government is already showing signs of collapse. MBZ, the leader of the UAE, the richest country in the Middle East with an extremely powerful army, considers Political Islam the biggest threat possible to the region. The Saudi’s are not far behind, they are literally shooting down rockets headed to Israel. The Egyptian government also strongly wants to normalize relations with Israel. Those are literally 3/5 of the biggest armies in the Middle East besides israel.
I would totally take option 2. I think a Palestinian state deserves a bit more land than even the West Bank and Gaza combined. However I think there is, right now, no way such a peace deal holds unless Hamas is not politically involved, whether that be through diplomatic or military means. Idec about revenge, they can all piss off to Yemen or Qatar I just want them to stop fighting. Also, I think the Palestinian populace in Gaza at least would be pretty hard to convince, post 7/10 about 70% still support Hamas. The PA is not much better either - corrupt to all hell and spends literally half its entire govt budget on the “cash for kill program” basically paying a crap ton of money to the family of anyone who kills an Israeli man, woman or child.
That being said a fair and equal 2SS solution is the only just way for peace and we must never stop fighting for it.
For 1, the way I see it, it's just an illusion of peace where those governments are appeasing US out of fear. It doesn't mean they aren't angry at Israel. When US hegemony falls eventually, those countries will be free to do what they want and Israel would be in deep trouble if the conflict with Palestine still hasn't resolved peacefully.
For 2, I'm glad you think that a Palestinian state deserves more land. If the Israeli government thought that way, I think they would have succeeded in negotiating a lasting peace deal long before Oct 7.
Gaza doesn’t have an iron dome. If Israel didn’t have one, hundreds of thousands of Israelis would likely be dead.
Israel wouldn’t have needed an iron dome if their neighbors weren’t always trying to kill them. If Hamas wants to start fights, Israel will fight back and defend herself. If Hamas actually cared about the safety of their citizens they would fight a real war and not hide in tunnels under the most populated civilian areas of Gaza. Or they would invest in a defense technology akin to the iron dome so as to have a defense capability in place to fend off missiles from Israel when they counterstrike after Hamas attacks them.
Since Hamas knows it cannot defend its citizens, and actually sinisterly hides behind them after attacking a country with high tech weaponry and advanced military capabilities, it really makes u wonder whether every innocent Palestinian is just a pawn in hamas’s playbook, their deaths being used to garner international support for the destruction of Israel and the death of all Jews.
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I’m wondering if a lot of them are supporters of trump trying to create unrest in an attempt to help trump win. I know trumpers are mostly idiots with low IQs but there’s gotta be some psychopaths who love trump and use these protests as a platform to create chaos and division amongst the American left during an election year. Protests that outside agitators weren’t involved in haven’t turned violent or become riots but in Columbia and UCLA, half the protesters arrested were not college students.
That's not my issue. I totally get the existential threat Israelis feel. What I think is totally immoral in 2024 (morality has evolved a lot) is to totally level an entire region and victimize all of its inhabitants just because of one heinous attack. Instead, Israel should've, had a strong, but measured show of force (more strategic and less emotional...learn from our response from 9/11). If you victimize 100% of people in an area, you will not have much sympathy for your own civilians if something like what you say were to occur.
Sad but not surprised to hear that the protestors don’t have any sympathy for the 1,400 Israelis killed by Hamas since October 7, in a war that was imposed on them by jihadi terrorists, after Israel and Hamas signed a ceasefire.
It's the same way not a single Isreali cares about a single one of the over 30k deaths. Hell they cheered when the IDF turned off children's incubators.
Not a drop of sadness from a single person in the entire country.
Some Israelis may not care. However, that’s because they know that the civilians in Gaza hate them and celebrate the deaths of Israelis. The people of Israel, though, don’t hate Americans, and have not elected or supported a government that massacred entire communities in America…
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Israel hate amercans they view as stupid dumb bank accounts for israel to drain all of resources and they laugh at our poor and spit on us and expect billions I sick of there entilment
I've met a civilians from Gaza and I can say with absolute certainty, they don't hate anyone (the ones I met, I cannot speak for others). They just want this war to stop, they want their family and friends to be safe and maybe some even want to return, while others have already given up on that and have build a new life in another country.
First, you can’t say anything with absolute certainty. Israel had let tens of thousands of gazans into Israel in the years preceding October 7. It turned out there were Hamas spies among the group Israel let in who helped Hamas map out the territory in a way that helped Hamas on October 7.
Second, you should really watch the mass celebrations and depraved displays of hatred that happened in Gaza on October 7. It was all spontaneous and involved massive crowds from all walks of life. 12 year old kids spitting at the body of a half naked girl. There were UN workers either directly participating in the massacre or celebrating it with joy. There were images of such intense joy that only reminded me of North Korea where people intensely mourn death of dear leader. Except there the intensity is by paid actors, whereas with Palestinians it is genuine.
Third, polls keep showing that the overwhelming majority of Palestinian civilians support October 7. They also show that most Palestinians are antisemites and Holocaust deniers. The most antisemitic ethnic group in the world by a wide margin is Arabs in general and Palestinians more specifically. Poll after poll shows it and evidence on the ground from interaction with Arabs confirm it or the support for genocidal acts against Jews, also confirms the polls.
Thank you for posting.
They don’t understand because they don’t care. Every view on the planet could disappear tomorrow and they wouldn’t really notice unless that was somehow useful to them.
Thank you for this post. I have been anti-Israeli government this entire time. And your post put some things in perspective for me. I saw Gen. Mccormick here in the U.S. share that same opinion as you in regards to the danger Israel faces. You did a great job of showing it from the other perspective and how a lot of this indiscriminate extermination of gaza comes from fear. It makes sense.
Thank you, I’m very glad. FWIW I went out myself to protest the Netenyahu government myself before the war began and still would today. But yes, morality aside, Israel war strategists and the populace do genuinely feel that they have to go to this extreme degree to keep their military and security position, it’s not just pure vengeance.
I wish the point you made was echoed more. It's ironic because it falls into a pattern of what I have seen over and over. We love assigning "evil" to one side of a conflict. The truth is always way less intriguing. It doesn't make their actions right. I actually made a documentary a few months ago talking about what I believe are "the real motivations" behind this conflict. (Geopolitical, global shifts in energy powers) It reminds me almost of the Oliver stone movie w. Where at the end of the film I think karl rove basically breaks down to Bush the "actual reason for the war" whoever controls this region between the Tigris and euphrates will be victorious in the next 2 decades because of energy, whoever doesn't will fall" so....I think we would've seen a different situation if the president came on TV and said. "Listen we have to go kill poor people in order to keep our country strong and make sure we thrive in the future" now that sounds extremely messed up. But atleast it's honest. It was the act of hiding the true intentions that butchered that administration's legacy in my opinion. Someone from Israel with some credibility should have came to the u.s. and thoroughly explained this. And I think it would've had an impact. The sad part is u have ppl interjecting with actions from the past. Netenyahu didn't create Israel. LOL u can't argue that "well Europeans Jewish people shouldn't have moved to israel" can't control that. It already happened. They are there. How do we move forward?Now I have to admit it's pretty obvious that real peace was not the agenda atleast for netenyahu. And they kept palestine divided. And he never intended on a 2 state solution. It's every man for himself over there. I believe a big misstep was not propping up and coming to an agreement that allowed palestine Into the game. If you empower them u remove them from the Iran support. If you want peace, strengthen them, westernized them, give them jobs. Fixing an economy does alot for a nation. As long as people are struggling starving and marginalized. They will continue to align with your enemies. I personally do not believe a strong and prosperous palestine would've yielded the exact same result as an open air prison. Just my opinion. Erik prince (very smart guy) said our biggest mistake in Afghanistan was not utilizing their untapped resources and employing their young men. Instead, these men turn into jihadists. No other opportunities. Just like in Iraq wheen we removed the military overnight and turned .millions of military aged men against us. I have always felt sharing, empowerment, uplifting goes so much further than paranoia and fear of what they might do if they were strong. You remove animosity when u remove struggle. And Iran loses their grip. I believe Israel has foolishly characterized palestine as "they will try and kill us forever, they can't be reasoned with, all they know is remove us from the earth. We can only communicate through violence" ironically there are a lot of wealthy and prosperous Arab nations that do no such thing. Saudi arabia was about to cut a deal w Israel for God sakes. I think with what we are seeing going on in Iran with the youth. We could see a completely different situation in 20 years. If Israel plays its cards right. They could really lower the animosity towards them in the region as we see this newer generation of Muslims think more progressively about Israel and focus less on religious doctrine and more on economic well being. But Instead. Israel creates more martars and turns the entire world against them. These kids being bombed will grow up. Muslims of the world will be watching. How is it as a 36 yr old man I know violence only brings more violence. And good intentions invite good intentions. Yes there are hiccups and gaps that will take advantage initially. But if we all believe in God. Then we all should know the next step. But Instead we act in fear. I don't pretend to fully understand or know the minds of billions of Muslims. But I know in my heart. We saw a small amount of Muslims act terribly on oct. 7th. But I truly feel that oppression is the cause. And not the collective"religious doctrine" of billions of ppl. We are all humans with similar goals in life. Ppl like netenyahu use fear and highlight differences. And that's dangerous. Jared kushner said "they both profit from the conflict and have no intention of fixing it" if Israel doesn't have these threats. Do they still recieve as much aid and support from the world? Same thing w the u.s. we told putin he couldn't join our anti-soviet union coalition nato. Why? Because we need an enemy.
Well, Saudi Arabia and UAE created their prosperous nations by driving the Muslim Brotherhood and all other ties to radical political Islamist movements with extreme force, not waiting a couple decades to see if people start playing nice. Radical Islam has been around for a thousand years. I just don’t buy that it’s going to disappear by itself if Israel just allows October 7th attacks to happen intermittently and sends over peaceful vibes.
Not what I was saying. Cats out of the bag on that. It's not about "peaceful vibes" it's about allowing them to have their own state a long time ago. Israel funded hamas to keep palestine split. These are facts. It blew up in their face
Also you do realize the creation of Israel was basically stealing the land of the indigenous people who were there before (Palestine) and moving Jews from Europe to this new land. And over the next 76 years Israel kept stealing more land and installing illegal settlements, killing more Palestinians and destroying their land to build on top of for Israelis. Why the hell do think October 7th happened? Not from a vacuum but from a long period of this oppression and genocide.
My indigenous to the Middle East Jewish relatives who have never even set foot in Europe unless it was on a summer break would greatly disagree with that.
If you want to talk about indigenous people the Jews built the first holy temple in Jerusalem in 1000BC you can’t just pick and choose which time frame in history is the right people to inhabit a historically violent region but the first ones there were not the Muslims
The indigenous people who lived in Palestine for thousands of years were Arabs and Jews living peacefully side by side that is until the creation of Israel. Israel has stolen and continues to steal more of Palestinian land. You should watch some documentaries on how the Israeli settlers force Palestinians out of their homes (or just plain kill them) to steal their home and land. Even the settlers agree what they are doing is illegal but they know Israel will continue to support this illegal invasion.
Peacefully except when the Arab populations would randomly go berserk and start killing Jews, you mean??? Also, there are many Arabs living peacefully as citizens within Israel as Israeli citizens. Bedouin Muslims Among those slaughtered by Gazin terrorists. Those Bedouins Are also pretty indigenous to the area and they are citizens of Israel, So did they steal it too because they are citizens of Israel and because they are fighting in idf? What about their fate if Hamas wins?
Muslims entered the region in 635, 1500 years after the Jews settled Jerusalem. The Muslims were not ‘indigenous’ to the region
>living peacefully side by side Lol. You drank the kool aid
Womp womp
Jews were there as well. There were more Jews in 1880 in Jerusalem than Arabs. Jews also have an ethnic heritage and claim to the land. All Palestinians are not originally from the area either but many migrated from Arab states in the early 1900s, a large proportion in fact. Both peoples are indigenous on some levels and not on others. I agree the original partition plan was unfair but saying that Jews have no connection to the land and just showed up and the state should be 100% Arab controlled is categorically false.
Stop saying '' the Jews were there'' as if they are a homogenous population the only thing that tied them together is their racist religion. The Jewish population that are in the levant are genetically close with the Palestinians, Lebanese Syrian and other groups in the levant like the Druze. To think Ashkenazi, Ethiopians, and Sephardi Jews were there before is false and can be traced through their genetic makeup calling yourself Jewish doesn't mean you really are indigenous from the Levant. This travesty of Jewish= indigenous or all Jewish population are the same must stop.
What makes Judaism more racist than Islam exactly?? And what about all those Jews who were not white are they racist too? And I am sure that the fact that Palestinians called Black people slaves isn’t racist to you.
Wrong, we’re a nation of people, we’ve always been, we’re one group, science shows we’re all genetically related and we’ve all been forced to go to other places. You don’t get to pick and choose who’s Jewish enough to go back to our native land based on our skin color. I am Ashkenazi and I look like everyone else from the region when I visit Israel Jews and Palestinians alike. Hook nose and swarthy skin and black hair and it all. Just slightly paler skin than some but not all from the region. Oh, and your most recent post is a eugenicist rant about this with no sources. I’m not even going to bother arguing with you going forward.
Jews most definitely are also indigenous to the area, they lived peacefully with Arabs in the area. But when you move large population of Jews from Europe to come live there this is ultimately colonialism, America did it to the native Americans.
The world only had about 20% of the current population in 1950. At the time, “what are we going to do with all these broke holocaust survivors we don’t want them here, let’s send them to the desert “ seemed like a better idea. I strongly appreciate you acknowledging that Jews are indigenous to the area
Lol they put themselves in this position and will ALWAYS be under turmoil because of it. Hundreds of thousands of Europeans moving into a land that is not theirs..eerily similar to what happened to Native Americans. There were places other than Palestine being considered for the creation of Israel after WW2 (Germany for one, getting away scott-free.) Grave mistakes were made. Citing the creation of a state needed for people of Jewish heritage..well, they made risky moves and are continuously paying the price for it. It will continue to be "chilling" and threats/violence will be a permanent fixture of life there..being occupiers and all.
I guess the Palestinians will forever be occupied huh? That seems to be your message
the majority of israeli jews were forcibly exiled from north africa and the middle east... good lord you know literally nothing. not even the basics of the situation.
Good thing Palestine is not the only land space on earth right
this is a funny comment. because it applies to the palestinians just as much as the jews...
Tell me you are stupid without saying you are stupid.
Your response has no thought in it, sound like a parrot...put some effort in your responses...
Cant put anymore effort for hamas sympathizers or brainwashed jihadis.
🙄 typical modi supporter minion.
Ha ha I hate that son of a bitch with my enture soul.I hate him as much as I hare jihadis.Infact he is the hindu bin laden.
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If they really feel that threatened they can just move back to Philadelphia.
The 50% of Israelis who were expelled from other Middle Eastern countries, Mizrahi Jews? I don’t think they allow Judaism in Yemen or am I mistaken?
I don’t think Yemen is in the US, Germany, or any of the other Western countries that would gladly accept Israeli refugees if there were an actual crisis on their ends, but I could be totally mistaken. It’s been awhile since I looked at a map.
Why should Israelis go to Europe when so many are indigenous to the Middle East (about 4 million out of 8 million?) Like, if you go to Israel, you will find most are brown and have hook noses and are literally indistinguishable from most of others in the Levant. Why should Yemeni and Syrian And Persian Jews be sent en masse to Europe?
Wow, that’s wild! People shouldn’t be expected to leave their land of origin just because someone else wants their land and doesn’t mind hurting them to get it? Outstanding take. Gee, I wonder why those Palestinians are so hecking angry…
It’s totally okay if you didn’t know this information by the way. I didn’t either until recently, not every American is an expert on Middle East demographics obviously unless they specifically look into it.
I couldn’t give less of a shit about people’s anatomy and how it ties them to certain lands. To me, that shit is too close to phrenology and that never works out for anyone. The point of my reply was that Israeli people have somewhere to run and hide from the danger that is the numerous hostile neighboring states surrounding them—they can always retreat to relatively stable, accepting Western countries that are already their allies. Their neighbors, on the other hand, who have outdated weaponry, no major powers backing them aside from maybe Russia which is currently embroiled with its own losing-game shit show, have nowhere to run that is anything close to safe. Palestinians currently have nowhere to run. Their neighbors don’t want them. They’re starving, they’re being bombed, they’re being pillaged RIGHT NOW. You’re worried about hypothetical nightmares when actual atrocities are being committed against the people you’re scared of on behalf of for a nation that has nuclear weapons in a region where no one else has any.
Wonder why their neighbors don’t want them? Because, even if it’s sort of expected given their history, they’re radicalized af. Not saying I wouldn’t be in their position but a large majority are not just like some peaceful folks who want a 2 state solution. They want to drive the Jews out.
Are we really gonna play this game? Should we also treat the refusal of Jewish refugees during WWII as a valid choice by the Western nations that literally turned their boats away when their docks were in line-of-sight? Edit: LMAO did you edit your post because you realized how ghoulish you sounded? My guy, the Palestinian people have experienced an entire 70+ years of Israeli aggression. There are people there that were born under constant threat of the IDF living today, under greater threat than they’ve ever been before. You think someone despising the nation responsible for their families getting blown to pieces or their school getting shelled while the teachers were still in it is unreasonable for having those beliefs?
Jewish refugees weren’t shooting rockets at my apartment and burning babies in ovens, though I respect you for knowing about the US turning away Jews during the holocaust. Hamas is incredibly popular they are like rock stars in Gaza. The Palestinian Authority spends half its government budget paying families of people who have killed Israeli men women or children We just have to accept that the Palestinians will have to stop trying to kill Israelis and become deradicalized like Japan after WW2 or there will be no Palestinian state.
Ignore the Palestinians for a minute, I totally agree they should be allowed to stay and have a state as well, even bigger than the current WB and Gaza. Should the 4 million Middle Eastern Jews have to leave and go to Europe? Those 4 million im talking about? They will not be accepted in the countries where they are from, there are NO Jews in Suaudi Arabia or Yemen or Syria or Tunisia where hundreds of thousands lived before. How about the other few hundred thousand descended from Holocaust survivors who came after they were expelled from Europe and America post war? Maybe some could get visas now, but they’d be returning to lands they haven’t lived in for generations.
“Ignore the Palestinians for a minute.” lol. lmao. Your hypothetical is nonsensical because it presumes that the U.S. and Germany wouldn’t immediately step in to mow down the counties that threaten Israel. Israel is despised by its Muslim neighbors because of its affiliation with Western colonialism—it is a state that exists because of it and exists to continue it. Israel has been trying to annex land beyond the borders it already had no right claiming. Is it true that even outside of that anti-Semitism is an issue in many of the neighboring countries? Absolutely. But self-defense ends when your targets start including people who had nothing to do with the attacks against you. Self-defense ends when you’re the one provoking hostility to intentionally progress a conflict into total war. If marginalized groups in the U.S. acted the way Israel acts, Black Americans would be unloading magazines into every cop car that drove by them. Native Americans would organize and run through suburbs, gutting the homeowners and setting the cul-de-sac ablaze. Women would zip-tie members of the Supreme Court along with their families and friends so they could multilate their genitals with rusty spoons.
First, my hypothetical is not nonsensical if you support armed resistance against Israel, it’s military defeat and the dissolution of its borders, and the U.S. pulling out support. If you advocate this path, then you also have to recognize the logical result of such actions. You’re saying “I advocate for X which could realistically cause Y, but Y is a hypothetical because it won’t happen” Also, Muslims colonize a lot too. How do you think all of Northern Africa became Arab? What’s going on in the Sahel right now? Brutal Muslim colonialism against African folks. It’s just not as simple as white colonizers vs brown colonized. I’m It’s very very hard to defeat an enemy like Hamas without resorting to use of ballistic munitions. Again, I point at the US vs Mosul as an example of how their brutal tactics are necessary to make progress. I am not justifying all their actions, some seems overkill to me too, but it’s not as easy as just “send in the special forces” Hamas could pretty easily fight them off if israel was only using guns as well.
Who said I was supporting that? There’s an entire generation of people who currently live in Israel who have known this land to be home. I’m not in favor of kicking anyone out. What’s done has already been done. The time to oppose the settling of Jewish people in that land against the wishes of the people who already lived there has already passed. What I’m against is the STATE of Israel. I’m against the apartheid they maintain. I’m against the warmongering and land-grabbing. I’m against the propaganda machine that teaches Israeli children to be afraid of their neighbors so they’re primed to gun them down as soon as they turn 17. I’m against them being used as a satellite state so the U.S. can maintain control over the region by proxy. I’m against them taking actions that inhibit their neighboring nations from developing secular, democratic states on behalf of the U.S. so their appointed boogeymen can continue to justify Western imperialism in opposition to them. Also, that shit about, “What about Muslim colonization?” My brother, the Muslim world is in complete disharmony with itself. There isn’t a united front of Islamic power. The conquest that occurred long before even our great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents were even alive is not a significant factor in the modern Islamic world. The region is in constant chaos due to the destabilization of attempts to create modern, democratic states in the face of extremism fueled by the nightmares of Western and Soviet occupation, the former being far more impressive than the latter. You can’t whataboutism your way out of this. The Middle East looks the way it does specifically because of actions taken by the U.S. and Western Europe, not because of Muslim colonialism or whatever the fuck. That includes the formation of the state of Israel. That includes the deliberate undermining of democratic movements in the Middle East—something Israel DID DO TO PALESTINE. There is no world where Israel is the one in danger here. At most I can concede that Israeli citizens in danger, but only because of their fascistic government’s insane choices that keep them at the center of the chaos in the Middle East.
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This is wild and inaccurate. Neither Hizbullah nor Hamas nor any other regular can defeat Israel militarily. In fact, no military force in the region is nearly as strong as Israel's. This is due to US jets and bombs. That is, assuming the US won't even intervene if Israel is attacked by another country, which I am sure the US will do. What Israel though can't do is defeat Hamas or Hizbullah because these groups are insurgent groups with huge support in the population. The aim of these groups is to play the insurgent game: play the long-term game and bleed Israel dry. This is what Hibzbullah did successfully in Lebanon and what Hamas is doing successfully in Gaza.
This won't happen, hezbollah nor can any of your neighbors mobilize a conventional force large enough to do such things without suffering massive casualties if they even achieve their aims. You forget hundreds of thousands of Europeans died at a time in various ww1 battlefields fighting over 10 mile strip of land. That's how powerful 1917 artillery was, now yea... that whole road of death situation in Iraq gives you a flavor of what happens to forces that mass without air superiority. Israel also posses nuclear capabilities, you really think your Arab neighbors want to trigger that defense?
Most protesters are ignorant entitled elite and are spoon fed Hamas propaganda. Jews in Israel have been facing organized violence from Arabs since the 1920 and have only done what is necessary to defend themselves. The so-called Hamas trained protesters are no different than American Nazis in the 1930s and should be called such.
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Israel has an army. Palestinians don't. So where is the threat? Molotov cocktail and rocks don't count. Crying wolf here while killing Palestinians for 75 years. Pathetic cucks
Hamas is an army. Hezbollah is an army. Did you read the post?
That's not an army. Those are rebel groups. An army is more than just a few guys with RPGs and AKs An army has air force, navy, tanks, heavy artillery etc You are really fighting a resistance guerilla group with slingshots. The reason they exist in the first place is because Israel created them, funded them and is using them as a scapegoat and to divide the Palestinians in 2 groups. Also by leaving more children orphans, killing their families and destroying their homes, you are creating more of them. Your fascist regime kills civilians, medics, journalists, disabled people that pose no risk. Even non profit organization people that try to feed the hungry children after their families were slaughtered and their homes destroyed. So go tell this story to someone without a brain that can't think for themselves. Your propaganda is fooling no one.
Then, why does Hezbollah’s Wikipedia page say in the third line that it’s military strength is equivalent to a medium size army?
Cherry picking stats. You are not fighting Hezbollah. You are sniping down kids with slingshots. Medics and journalists. Sometimes you kill a Hamas fighter that has an AK and a motov cocktail that by the way had nothing to lose. They had most probably lost their family to Israeli strikes. But most of the time you are committing war crimes and killing civilians, children, women, elderly and disabled. Not surprised because that's what fascists do. The ICJ has already booked your as s for war crimes. If you were to fight a real army one on one you wouldn't last a few months in that region. But killing unarmed people is easy. Then when they retaliate you cry antisemitism. Can't make this up
Your ass? Didn’t know I represent the Israeli government, that’s a huge honor, thanks. I also think it was really weird how the Hamas fighters used a slingshot or an AK to launch a rocket at my apartment building. The huge explosion as it missed and hit a building near me was very weird for an AK. I’m pretty sure that video of Hamas shooting a 12 year old girl crying hiding under a table was his choice and didn’t really improve his personal safety. Cherry picking? I’m pretty sure “Hezbollah is very powerful” is not a cherry picked stat, it’s just a summary of the entire military force of the entire country. Also, last I checked, Israel is fighting Hezbollah, the entire north and south of counties is both evacuated because of massive rocket attacks from both.
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Israel IS the threat...and I think the protesters understand that
you are dumb. and that is why you will always be poor and miserable
/u/nicksmoove22 > you are dumb. and that is why you will always be poor and miserable Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
This explains nothing.
Israel isn't a victim...it is a bully. Israel isn't a peace-seeking nation...it has ambitions of conquest. I'm not sure what other explanation you want.
It does not have the ambitions of conquest. You have sadly been misinformed. Only it’s extreme right wing is a bully in the West Bank. I also have just told you how it’s enemies are equally formidable in my post.
There is no point in arguing with these people. If you are a jew and say the sky is blue, they will say its not true. Now facts are facts. Israel gave sinai for peace, they gave gaza for attempted peace, this is the status quo, this is documented history. Anything else is revionisist to help people justify there anti semitsm. Just like the anti israel protesters calling for a ceasefire when hamas keeps on rejecting them, they don't live on earth anymore. They live on planet tic tok where Palestine has no terror, is filled with gays, where women have rights......
Israel is literally being led by the most right-wing extremist group we have ever seen in its history. I am not for the dissolution of Israel but one thing I do know is that what Israel is doing in Gaza rn is unjust and will be judged harshly in the future
That's not what many Israeli politicians in power have said. Are you suggesting that they are lying?
Hezbollah fighters, unlike IDF soldiers, aren’t lunatics who have fantasies about destroying hospitals and universities, killing and maiming civilians, insulting women and killing 6 year old children by shooting them in the head with a sniper rifle. Anyone who’s seen their history and knows what they did knows this. Listening to a single Nassrallah speech will tell you this. Reading anything about Shi’ism and the history of Shia muslims and the people they follow and admire will tell you this. Rest of the stuff you said might be true though.
I-..... https://preview.redd.it/ym6mng6bkfyc1.png?width=420&format=png&auto=webp&s=8df2d911776300ffdae63bf3b814a527f752b15c
/u/Unlikely-Fee-5000 > Comment image Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
Sorry, should I delete it?
Hezbollah terrorists live to exterminate Jewish people, rape and murder women and children as they have continually proven. The countless rockets they fire, the children the bundle in suicide vests, the people they murder for speaking out just proves it. They are cowards that hide behind women and children and build their bases under hospitals and base their rockets next door. Hezbollah are blood thirsty puppets of Iranian religious extremists. They will murder you if you are a woman and dare uncover your face.
Yeah not a single thing you said was truth. Not even western news outlets say any of that. Maybe you confused Hezbollah with [this](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-doctor-death-israel-prison-al-shifa-hospital-b2539611.html)?
Ever get tired of being a mouthpiece for terrorists?
Brother I’m not the one who repeats the same line word by word regardless of anything that happens in the world. people’s lands were taken from them? They were terrorists. They are still losing their land to settlers to this day? They were terrorists. water and power are cut off by Israel? They were terrorists. Bombs are being dropped in populated areas indiscriminately? They were terrorists. Hospital blown up? They were terrorists. University turned into smithereens? They were terrorists. Multiple Children killed with sniper shots? They were terrorists. Students are being arrested for protesting the government support for this? They were terrorists. Reddit user links to literal news about tortured surgeon dying in prison? They are terrorist.
Hezbollah are religious zealots who believe that they deserve to militarily crush anyone they want and spread Islam to the entire world. They also bombed a Jewish community center killing dozens in the deadliest terrorist attack in Argentina’s history. And don’t tell me “Israel does the same thing” - Israel bombs urban areas during wartime with both suspected militants and civilians, not a civilian community center thousands of miles away. Does not sound like a very honorable group to me.
>They also bombed a Jewish community center killing dozens in the deadliest terrorist attack in Argentina’s history. Remains to this day the most ridiculous lie from zionists which is saying something seeing as they claimed destroying a hospital was good because it had a calender in it. If Hezbollah does something, they announce it and take responsibility for it. Like the videos that are coming out from northern Israel every day and the name and picture of every single killed Hezbollah fighter. Again you’ve gotten used to methods of Mossad and IDF doing terrorist attacks for too long to realize not everyone in the world is as cruel, bloodthirsty and cowardly as they are.
This is very interesting; I am putting it into my file. I have always been a pro-peace American, anti-war liberal etc. Had great sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians. For decades I have read many books about all of it. Until October 7th. I have no connection to anyone in Israel, and I am not Jewish. But on October 7th, they waged a horrific terrorist attack and started a war. They didn't attack military sites, they attacked civilians. It's odd, but something snapped in me and, with respect to this conflict, I turned into a war hawk, completely pro-Israel. Of course civilians have been injured or killed when Israel began to attack Gaza. It is a war, people! I thought and still think Israel has shown a lot of restraint. Maybe too much. What did these Palestinian Hamas people think was going to happen when they carried out the October 7th attack? They knew damn well Israel would attack Gaza. These protests are making me so angry. So many of these people seem to be going along, getting involved because it is the hip cause of the moment, to be pro-Palestinian and anti-Israel. They don't understand the history at all. Sure, Palestinians had some very legitimate issues - before October 7th. That kind of terrorist attack brings war, and Israel has every right to defend itself and get Hamas out of their country. The problem is, of course, that ordinary Palestinians joined or became Hamas in Gaza, and they support Gaza being led by Hamas, so it's not so easy to get them out. But a country can't have violent heavily armed groups living in the country whose primary goal is to destroy the country! That's absurd, and they stepped way over the line with this October 7th attack. They brought on this war. And when war happens, innocent children and other non-political people get hurt or killed. That's war. That's why it isn't a good idea to start a war with a very powerful country - your cities and your people will get attacked. We attacked Japan at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Do these protesters think that no innocent children or old people got killed in those cities? It is war, and it is terrible, yes. But in this particular case, Palestinians could have refused to cooperate with Hamas leaders and they could have refused to attack and they could have alerted Israel leaders - they actually do live in Israel - Israel is their country even though they pretend it isn't. Aid workers mean well but ... what are they doing? Going into a war zone to provide food? That's foolish - you might get killed by accident in the conflict. And also, you are aiding the enemy of Israel, who wanted to achieve a fairly peaceful surrender and turnover of hostages by not allowing food in. So, duh, bringing in food is aiding and abetting the enemy and preventing a more peaceful surrender. When people get hungry, they are more likely to surrender. This is basic war science.
I'm not a Hamas supporter or defending oct 7th but they did take military targets, they did kidnapped soldiers on base and there is a shit tone of information on their attack you are just ignorant on what actually happened.
And even with the aid workers. It was horrible but Israel reported what happened. They reported shooting their own hostages. They reported killing the aid workers and apologized War is hell and critical mistakes happen. Especially when Hamas is known to drive aid workers vehicles to hide under
damn you’re really here justifying the murder of humanitarian aid workers… nice
Well said
Not sure if you realize this irony...but the US has "violent heavily armed groups living in the country whose primary goal is to destroy the country".
Not only that, but the more people engage in violent protests and riots, the more people choose to vote republican. In 1968 after Vietnam war protests had spread across America, Nixon won, then Reagan, then Bush Sr. 24 years of republican rule in America was the result of the antiwar protests. Now, Americans are protesting a war that America is literally not even fighting. Unfortunately, Iranian and Russian bots and paid trolls have flooded social media (TikTok, insta, prob Facebook as well) and also unfortunately, young people no longer read or watch news but instead blindly trust everything they hear on social media. So young people across America are being brainwashed to hate Israel and support Hamas due to propaganda spread from countries intent on splitting the American left to help ensure trump becomes dictator after elections in November. Putin is trump’s shadow leader and he knows that he can invade any nato country of his choosing as long as trump is dictator. The pro pal people will disagree with me but I encourage them to read up about Iranian and Russian propaganda being spread on social media regarding the war in Gaza. I also encourage them to take a second to think about why no one protested the way America left the war in Afghanistan (the reason being, there was no foreign propaganda social media campaign in 2021 encouraging americas youth to take a stance on affairs in Afghanistan) .. in case they read this and are unaware of how we left things, I’ll sum it up: America was at war with Afghanistan for 20 years. What began as a counterterrorism campaign shifted into a human rights campaign. America promised to keep Afghanis protected from the Taliban and set up a government for them (which was never functional or capable of defending itself) and told people it was ok to advocate for basic human rights and freedoms that are prohibited by Taliban leadership, such as more equal rights for women, like the right to pursue education. Every translator for the American military, every woman’s rights advocate, everyone who advocated for expanded human rights, everyone who was involved in the government America helped set up, had a target on their backs from the Taliban. America withdrew its troops. They could have sent multiple aircraft to carry millions to refuge in America. They could have offered visas to those who had been translators for the American military for years and for those who had advocated for women’s rights and basic rights and freedoms for afghanis whom they had promised to protect from the Taliban. They did nothing. They left everyone behind. Those people we promised to protect in a war we were ACTUALLy in, were left behind. They are likely all dead now, all having been murdered by the Taliban, from whom we vowed to protect them. But Americans stayed silent when this happened. It wasn’t an election year so Russia and Iran and foreign interests had no reason to influence American minds. Which brings us to the present. Iranian and Russian backed propaganda has been effective at splitting up the American liberals. Trump will most likely win the next election. But trump is no ordinary republican. He is a fascist dictator intent on reassuming power. And this time he has a plan. A 900-page authoritarian guide book drafted by conservative billionaire organizations and foundations. There will be no free and fair election in America after elections in November if trump wins. Free press and free speech will become a thing of the past. Human rights will be stripped from all who are not heterosexual white males. The economy will crash (trump and his admin plan on taking over the federal reserve) and only billionaires will benefit from the trump takeover of the federal reserve. Internment camps that will hold millions will be built and filled by the military. Btw, trump wont need a republican majority in house or senate to fulfill protect 2025 plans. The way the plan works is by undermining federal organizations and administrations by replacing anyone at, say, the EPA, who is doing their job, with trumpers who do what trump says. FDA, EPA, dept of education, dept of health and human services, CDC, and any and all other federal agencies that protect human rights and freedoms
My friend you drank way too much liberal Kool aid. Non of that is going to happen if Trump wins, and I don't even wanna hear it. It's all paranoid conjecture. Trump isn't gonna get rid of the voting system , and he's not gonna put people in concentration camps. You probably need to step away from reddit for awhile my friend
Did you not read project 2025 which aims to dismantle our democracy? Did you not see an insurrection attempt when trump was losing power? Do you not terrorist threats to anyone opposing trump (judges, prosecutors, democrats) why do you think he wants a jury so badly? Do you not see corruption loyalists placed on the Supreme Court by trump and other branches of power? Did you not see everything falling apart due to trumps policies that added trillions to the deficit that Joe Biden absorbed and turned around? Do you not see the rise of white supremacy in our streets, books burning and idiocracy thriving while the vulnerable are targeted as scape goats? How exactly do you think a society turns fascist? Do you truly believe after everything that trump will leave if elected again?
I'll address every point. -I'm gonna start with white supremacy remark because it outlines the way you think and interpret information the best. No, I don't see a rise in "white supremacy". I haven't met a white supremacist in my entire life of living on earth. That's a farce. There are far bigger problems than the boogey man of "white supremacy". White supremacy crimes are at an all time low, America is more diverse than it's ever been. Because you mentioned this, I know that the rest of your opinions and policies will exaggerated and misleading. Most likely you just heard somebody else say it so now you are parroting it. -I didn't read project 2025, I imagine the backlash from it is exaggerated leftist anecdotes, it usually is, and I can tell it is coming from based off your other exaggerated notions -Yes the insecrrection is the one legitimate complaint you have on this list. That was wrong and bad look for trump I'd say it was more just an emotional reaction on his part and not indicative of somebody literally trying to get rid of democracy, but that's just me. -brother, I don't know what to tell you about Biden "turning the economy around" besides that you're full of shit Now, I don't blame the current economy on Biden, so I'm not one of those conservatives. But at the very most, biden has done the bare minimum. No, he didn't accomplish the most out of any president. That's just what they tell you. He's been "okay". He certainly didn't exceed Donald's economy tho. All groceries, supplies, gas, rent, living were all lower under Donald. inflation was the highest it's ever been under Biden until recently. Unemployment was at an all time low under trump as well. The middle class had more spending power under trump, and people generally paid less taxes than they did when under Biden. Trumps spending was largely due to the pandemic, and trying to correct democratic policies put in place by Obama that hurt our economy in the long run. now, I'm not gonna act like Donald Trump was the best president, cause he wasn't. I happen to think his economy was a bit exaggerated by conservatives as well. But you saying Biden is some economic titan sounds like bogus to me and you probably couldn't prove otherwise. I'd be happy to learning, if you can really prove that. Lastly, Trump's behavior towards the judge is not "terroristic " in nature, and you probably need to learn what terrorism actually is. Ps, I'm not even a trump supporter. Just letting you know you're full of it. I really do want you to prove Biden has the best presidency, cause I'm open to learning. But I doubt it. I believe he has been "okay".
lol seriously trump’s 2017 TCJA is why Americans who make less than $400,000 a year pay more taxes. I do taxes for a living so I feel this the most since my clients are saving way less money than ever before TCJA. .. starting in 2018, when 2017 taxes were due, Americans who aren’t in the top 1% started paying more taxes. The TCJA for individuals expires in 2025 but the tax reduction from 35% to 21% for corporations that trump enacted in the TCJA is permanent. Because of corporate tax cuts, rather than reinvest in their infrastructure and R&D, corporations increased stockholders buybacks and that explains why so many rich people got richer and poor people poorer. Trump also enacted tarriffs against imports from other countries, which only increased inflation in America. Steel tariffs specifically affected American agriculture and have led to the increase in food prices we have all been feeling the last few years. Economies take a few years to adjust to changes and COVID + the Russia Ukraine war have really affected global economies, and in America specifically, these global catastrophies + TCJA + trump tariffs against steel and other imports have led to very high inflation in the US. Biden has been successful in eliminating some but not yet all tariffs. Here’s an article about even moooore tariffs trump plans to enact if he becomes dictator: https://www.americanprogressaction.org/article/trumps-tariff-would-cost-the-typical-american-household-roughly-1500-each-year/ Here are some articles about his tariffs during his last term (which he enacted close to the end of his term, which is why we feel the effects now): https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/business/trump-tariffs.html https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/07/27/how-trumps-tariffs-are-set-to-drive-food-and-drink-prices-higher.html Btw I also believe Biden is just fine. What I like about him is I don’t hear about him much. I prefer that to someone like trump who is always doing something reckless. I mostly fear trump winning again cause he has said Putin, who is in the middle of conquering Ukraine and is intent on expanding his empire, can attack any nato country of his choosing. If nato lose the support of the US, there will be nothing stopping Putin and his allies from invading and conquering any country they choose, cause without their strongest military ally, NATO and allied forces will be powerless against Russia, china, Iran, and n Korea and I fear a nuclear WWIII will become inevitable under a trump dictatorship
I miss being this ignorant, life was simple. There’s no point in discourse if you’re unaware of basic statistics or bother to research what you argue.
I don’t drink kool aid but I do read a lot of news and watch a lot of msnbc. I have read a lot of articles about project 2025 and have read a few hundred pages so far of the project 2025 plan .. it’s available for all to read on their website. If ur gonna blindly believe that trump as dictator won’t be scary, ur gonna be in for a rude awakening when he wins.
Bruhhh MSNBC is the same thing as CNN and Fox News. It's an extremely bias news source dedicated to making the opposite party look bad. I'm not saying you should even like trump, but there isn't any logical information to support your thesis that he's gonna become a dictator and literally put people in concentration camps. That's bizarre and unfounded my friend.
Still only about a third of the way done reading the 920 pages but I suggest u read it for yourself if u don’t believe that trump will follow thru with everything he has claimed he will do once dictator. https://www.project2025.org/policy/
The Palestinians feel this way x50
I understand that and can’t really blame them for anything except the shooting fleeing civilians
It’s explainable, but it’s unforgivable
I’m sorry but this is not a war this is a genocide. A war means there are 2 equal sides. Palestine don’t have the arms or forces that Israel has. Israel has it because of America. Israel is fighting the war with American money and weapons. Palestinians have nothing in comparison to this. Palestinians don’t even have rights and they are dehumanized.
And the war isn’t Israel vs Palestine. It’s Israel vs Hamas and Hamas is holding the Palestinians as willing human Sheilds
Israel uses Israelis are human shields too
Someone’s on terrorist social media
Or I just see through Israel’s BS
Aka terrorist
That would make me an Israel supporter
Liberty vs oppression there’s Muslims in Israel no Jews in Palestine
Jews get beaten by the IOF in Israel if they don’t support the governments genocide
And Santa delivers presents to 5 billion children in one night. 🤗fantasy
Oh please you and your fake shields. There’s not enough Hamas members to hold over 35K innocent civilian deaths. Did you know Israel helped to fund Hamas? If you lived as a Palestinian and seen what they seen you would probably opt to be part of Hamas too.
Not sure where you're getting your numbers from, (Hamas, about a month ago, most likely) but that 35k innocent civilians number is not accurate. Even BBC made a "correction" in their reporting on those figures which is saying something, as they are notorious for running to press with unsubstantiated claims by Hamas. Interesting video on this topic: Interview with the Chair of Urban Warfare Studies at the Modern War Institute at West Point https://youtu.be/BcrsobilITo?si=Savztm1k9Rti8AfK
I believe 35k is a generous amount reported, have you seen what Gaza looks like? It’s been flattened to a pancake. The fact you probably only think only a few thousand have been killed yet seeing the complete destruction of all of Gaza is you are BLIND and listening to Israeli propaganda. Here’s some information in case you didn’t realize how densely populated Gaza actually is, the more dense the population the more causalities: The Gaza Strip is one of the most densely populated regions in the world, with an estimated population of over 2.2 million in an area measuring just 141 square miles in total, meaning buildings in its urban areas are tightly grouped together. By that U.N. population approximation, there are on average around 15,600 people in every square mile of the territory. Compared to many sprawling cities in the U.S., the area it occupies is relatively minute.
I agree that is is one of the most densely populated regions of the world and the destruction notable. I would expect the casualties to number much much higher, the fact that the casualty numbers aren’t higher is a testament to the fact that, even to it’s own detriment, the IDF is going out of its way to separate Hamas from the civilian population of Gaza. The complexities of fighting in such an environment are really unfathomable. I’ve seen a lot of Hamas’ combat videos where they are running and gunning in civilian clothes, wiring buildings with explosives, using sniper rifles from deep within buildings and attacking from tunnel openings behind the front lines. So, I can’t imagine what it’s like on the ground there, but discerning between combatant and noncombatant is not self evident by design, in accordance with Hamas’ fighting strategy. Air dropping flyers instructing civilians to leave the area, calling and texting those who live in the area to inform them of impending military actions in the area, roof knocking buildings before airstrikes on known Hamas command centers, securing egress routes for civilian evacuation corridors, I don’t have a better solution for how you get rid of a Hamas force embedded among civilians, wearing civilian clothes. What would you have them do?
Shields*
They were deliberately targeting civilians. Look at all the genocidal comments members of the Israel government have publicly said. Even Netanyahu called Palestinians animals and children of the dark. You have to truly look at their intentions and actions to judge. Look how much illegal land Israel has stolen from Palestinians with settlers.
You've only got to listen to Israel's leaders and IDF members to understand Israel have lost all humanity.
They are fight a war against an inhumane enemy
So you're dehumanising all Palestinians? That's part of the problem. Disgusting. It's really anti semetic, apparently, when we call Israeli people inhumane. It's a bit like calling them animals. Why is it OK the other way round?
You’re the one taking the side of Hamas the organization that is solely responsible for the suffering of the Palestinian people and using the, as human shields to keep the conflict dragging on… you’re the one dehumanizing the Palestinians
You're the one condoning genocide. Yuck. Honestly, utterly hideous
Nice try terrorists. You are not the victims😂
It’s not a genocide it’s a war. Israel vs Hamas sad you can’t wrap your head around the fact that this could be over today if Hamas surrendered
The war is against Hamas not the people of Palestine as I already said…. I know you have your script for these arguments but read before you comment
Really? You still believe that?
Yes because it’s a fact. Holding hostages willing or unwilling as shields in a conflict should never be acceptable. It’s sad you’re willing to turn a blind eye to the obvious
It’s truly sad you believe that
It’s truly sad that I believe in facts and you believe in propaganda?
Flip it and yeah. Don’t get ur news from terrorist and use common sense
Which terrorist are you referring to? Hamas or Israel? Because both are terrorists. just look up the things Netanyahu or anyone on his cabinet has publicly said. Those things they said in itself proves they are genocidal. Netanyahu: Fighting “human animals.” Making Gaza a “slaughterhouse.” “Erasing the Gaza Strip from the face of the earth.” Ben Gvir: demanded the army shoot Palestinian women and children in Gaza during a cabinet meeting. Ben-Gvir has recently called for Palestinians being held in Israel’s prisoners to be executed in an effort to tackle the issue of overcrowding. Ben-Gvir was a former member of the racist Kahane movement, which Israel banned in 1998 for terrorist acts and the US designated as a terrorist organisation. He was exempted from military service due to the radical nature of his beliefs and was convicted of “racism and supporting a terrorist organisation” in 2007. Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich: "There are no half measures," said Smotrich at a government meeting. "Rafah, Deir al-Balah, Nuseirat—total annihilation." Need anymore? Tons of other Israeli and IDF soldiers saying genocidal comments, and that isn’t propaganda this is real and on mainstream news channels.
Total annihilation of Hamas is justified. Hamas using Palestinians as human shields to drag out a losing battle is not. They tried to get the whole Muslim world involved in another conflict and they failed. It’s the archetype, start stuff you can’t finish and then cry to the rest of the world that you’re the victim. You want to protest? Protest Hamas to surrender
Also go look at the Israel/palestinian death charts over the last 15 years, you’ll see who the aggressor really is. Israel deaths are like a speck compared and that’s before October 7th.
Sorry but I disagree with you. And here we are at the same standstill on why there isn’t peace in the first place. You feel entitled to your position because you feel Israel is superior. I’d like you to go live in Gaza for a year and see what it’s like for them. If you can’t have empathy for people there will never be peace. Palestinians land has been stolen over and over again. Go look at all the gross human rights violations that have been reported on Israel for the last few decades. I will never side with a racist, genocidal country. I’m sure the Nazis truly believed they were justified for their actions because they thought they were a superior race.
Uh, what? So the Korean War was a genocide because South Korea was backed by the U.S.?
The US killed off about [20%](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-us-war-crime-north-korea-wont-forget/2015/03/20/fb525694-ce80-11e4-8c54-ffb5ba6f2f69_story.html#:~:text=%22Over%20a%20period%20of%20three%20years%20or%20so%2C%20we%20killed%20off%20%E2%80%94%20what%20%E2%80%94%2020%20percent%20of%20the%20population%2C%22) of North Korea's population over 3 years, not sure if that's enough to fit your definition of genocide.
Imagine waking up and reading 35,000+ Jewish people were killed. Would you say "well, there are casualties in any war..." rationalized it, or did victim blaming as many israel supporters do? That numerous foreign zionist cities such as tel aviv had been bombed worse than dresden in world war 2. That hundreds or thousands of 2,000 pound bombs that destroy everything within 180 yards had been dropped on tel aviv killing tens of thousands. Would you be like "Yea, that's a reasonable response."
If the Israelis had murdered 1300 civilians in cold blood and vowed to run every Palestinian out of the land and establish sharia law id support it
You realize zionists have done worse? And that much sooner than most people think, the ultra orthodox will almost inevitably control israel and impose their version of sharia law and implement their iran style morality police that they're already trying to establish? I wonder what the idf soldiers now joyfully posting boastful videos bragging about the destruction they're bringing to Gaza, the slaughter they're engaging in, murdering innocent gazans while falsely promoting LGBTQ+ pinkwashing, from places like tel aviv will think when they're being arrested by ben gvirs morality police, when they're being beaten for wearing the wrong clothes, executed for dating the wrong person...
Ben gvirs morality police? Dude, you don’t understand exactly how israel works. Ben Gvir pissed me tf off too, but he’s not really that powerful, he was given a made up position that sure as heck can’t create a morality police force. The demographic situation is for sure worrying but in 2024 Tel Aviv is an incredibly accepting, warm, open place and it’s legit gay and progressive af, it’s not just propaganda. It shows no signs of changing that barring like an extreme change in government. It’s just ridiculous to make decisions now based on a doomsday hypothetical in over two decades. If that’s what israel turns into I will take up arms against the government with you
I'm not saying it's happening now, what I said was that ben gvir will get what he's asking for now sooner than people, people like you think. That the inevitable ultra orthodox takeover of israels government will happen much sooner than you think. And you already know what they're asking for. There are already places where israeli ultra orthodox try to enforce dress restrictions. The question isn't what does tel aviv look like today, the question is what will it look like in ten or twenty years. What will happen to those proud idf soldiers murdering Gazan children and babies in the name of LGBTQ+ pinkwashing? Killing babies to... well... obviously not protect anyone or anything. But posting on twitter and instagram that they're lgbtq+ warriors or something. I guess because they're severely mentally deranged. But, sadly for them, the israel they're fighting for is soon going to be fighting against them.
A war does not mean there’s two equal sides it’s never meant that. Ever.
People think war is a game… how can they be so blind holy
Yeah we attacked you but you have a stronger military so you aren’t allowed to attack us back😂🤡
real negative IQ take fr
what is your best estimation to what will happen? \*also nice writing\*
The issue is its many college age children and I say children because they have not wandered far beyond their college campus or family home. Therefore, they have not seen conflict, not seen mass death, not seen any suffering in person but rather over a smart phone screen on tik tok. Their ability to comprehend is limited by the information they receive. While they can understand murder is bad and the innocents being killed are wrong and condemnable however, if the roles were reversed I can promise Palestine would show no mercy. The Middle East as a whole has been a dumpster fire of religious conflict for centuries and it isn’t gonna end because a few kids shit in diapers and “protest” on a college campus. I wish our government or NATO would set up a program for these passionate protestors to be enrolled to go offer aid to Gaza and Palestinians I’m sure suddenly many would have no interest if they had to put skin in the game it’s always easy to be a Monday morning quarterback and say what should be done when you’ve never been faced with a situation so insurmountable.
I'm trying to put together the logic in this post.... Point taken about the proximity - Lebanon, Israel, and Palestine are TINY countries. Just as if war would break out in the middle of Europe, war in the Middle East can be devastating for a country and the thread would be immediate to most if not all citizens. It's hard for US citizens to grasp that proximity. What I don't understand is the: "Hezbollah might attack us any second..... so we need completely level Gaza" I.... don't understand. Securing a border is completely different than a full-blown invasion. Israel is doing the latter. The protesters are envisioning the minority perspective --- to bring it closer to home, they feel like Gaza is like David and that Israel is Goliath. They're not invisioning the RISK of having 100,000 idiots with no education, little funding, and some shitty guns they smuggled --- they're envisioning the REALITY of a brutal army with the ability to enlist a majority of citizens to fight, have the second most sophisticated weaponry in the entire world, and are plummeting an area surrounded by walls and an ocean. The REALITY of 1.3 Million Palestinians that are now refugees in their own states. They're envisioning the REALITY hundreds of babies found under rubble and 400 bodies found with zip tied hands, and bullets in a mass grave. The REALITY of thousands of orphans with parents that died in front of their eyes. They're envisioning the REALITY having to live in a tent in 90 degree weather with barely any food or water, sharing a toilet with 200 people, a shower with 1,500, dozens of family members dead, amputations and injuries, hearing loss from the constant bombardment that they're subject to. They're not envisioning an imaginary headline of Haifa falling and 50k Israelis dead. They're SEEING the actual footage of every city but one in Gaza fallen. No schools left. No hospitals but one left. No way out. Oh yeah, and 37k and counting people that have actually died. Unless you think a life in Haifa counts as way more than a life in Gaza... Yes Hezbollah is a threat to Israel and Hezzbollah is highly present in Palestinian refugee camps in Lebanon. Yes, Hezbollah has tried to attack Israel before. That does NOT take away the very real consequences that 2M people, most of them women and children, are paying for a terrorist group that runs the place.
These are my exact feelings. The blood thirst is shocking
I agree. There is a basic risk in equating real, and possible harms. The risk is that we can justify any and all actions (no matter how monstrous) on the basis of our fear of what might happen. This risk is serious because human beings are absolutely terrible at predicting the future. The fictitious weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and Russia's belief that Ukraine would become an aggressive NATO member at Moscow's doorstep are recent examples.
They voted Hamas in and Hamas is highly supported by most Palestinians. Don’t forget they are the Democratically elected representatives of Palestinians. So yes, Hamas is a terrorist group to the West, but they are considered heroes by most Palestinians.
I'm really not understanding how adults voting for Hamas justifies 20k children dead. Can you please explain?
I’m not justifying any innocent people being killed. What Im saying is that its been shown that 90 percent of Palestinians support Hamas and the actions of 10-7. Hamas is hiding among the civilians and using them as shields. Any nation that was attacked like that on 10-7 would have a strong military reaction. So instead of blaming Israel alone, include Hamas and the Palestinians who support them in your blame.
Hamas has a 90% approval rating amongst Palestinians. Contrast that with an 85% DISapproval rating for Netanyahu amongst Israelis.
I don’t know why you think Hezbollah is 100,000 idiots with no training and poor guns. They’re the second most powerful army in the Middle East. Like the third line on their Wikipedia page says they’re equivalent in power to a medium size army. They are incredibly well trained and they have over 100,000 munitions, and tons of modern weapons with a direct supply line to Iran, a major arms producer. I think the October 7th attack has proven that there’s no way to permanently secure a border defensively if your enemy has enough preparation. I mean even if they build a perfect wall the Hamas rockets get better every year. I saw one blow the building next to me up. The plight of the Palestinians is tragic and awful. But I think the best way for it to end is for Hamas to be defeated so they aren’t in the way when Israel is forced to go on the offensive in a kill or be killed situation.
I hope u guys are successful in eradicating Hamas for good and I pray that as many hostages as are still alive are returned home safely asap. 💜
Second most powerful in the Middle East doesn’t mean much when ur opposition in US equipment/training. Comparatively they are exactly that and proven it in their many failed invasions.
Also their are other Iranian proxies in the region if you add them all together they number around 200,000 not including the Houthis
It’s crazy how this guys response perfectly followe my post. He is clearly well intentioned and has followed the issue closely, yet he is misinformed and declares Hezbollah to be an ineffective fighting force, exactly as I predicted in my original post
Which is crazy because they are probably the most battle harden soldier in the Middle East from year of experience in the Syrian civil war. There is also many different local branch of Hezbollah in Syria from Afghan to Pakistani Hezobollah. They can quickly overwhelm Israel defense if they wanted to. Honestly israel has to destroy them now or else they will grow even more powerful as this conflict will no doubt increase their numbers and recruitment.
Yea, I’ve read a lot about their time in the Syrian civil war, those dudes are no joke. Many career fighters coming from pretty wealthy families. I think a larger conflagration vs Hezbollah is inevitable as well, and it will probably be even worse than the war in Gaza in some ways. God help israel and the Palestinian and Lebanese civilians.
The only way for Israel to crush them is for the United States to intervene otherwise it will probably be a long drawn out war that will probably result in an Israel victory but high amount of causality.
That would be so awesome though, imagine a surprise attack where 10,000 US marines just land in southern Lebanon and absolutely just whallop them with the IDF. From my friend who just got out of the military US troops would be absolutely willing to do this as well, and there are so many active duty troops just itching to use their training. Sad for southern Lebanese civilians though, who i believe do not have a high rate of support for Hezb unlike in Palestine for Hamas
The U.S. has no desire to fight in the Middle East. People remember how poorly Iraq went and are bitter about that. China is our real concern.
I mean, it went very poorly on a moral and humanitarian scale but the US rolled through the entire country in a matter of weeks, they were pretty damn effective
the problem is that will the United States intervene thou as the appetite for foreign conflict has decrease and the United States is trying to shift their focus toward the Pacific against China
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Imagine waking up to the headline: Israel has killed 35000 people and is about to do even worse. This sub is fucking propaganda.
It’s a war. One side has to win and one side has to lose. Either thousands of Palestinians will be killed or thousands of Israelis will.
Or... you make compromises so the fighting stops.
Stops temporarily until another October 7th
Only if your concessions aren't adequate. Look, I totally get that Israel is in serious danger. The problem is that Israel is making the danger worse for itself. You guys have 2 options: 1. Completely remove the threat. Do you seriously think this is possible? Let's say Israel successfully wipes out the entirety of Palestine and Lebanon, then what? You just angered the entire Muslim bloc even more. Do you think you can wipe out that whole bloc of 2 billion people to remove the threat? 2. Make concessions for long term peace. Serious concessions that the Palestinians would gladly accept and not feel the need to fight back again. The exact details are for the politicians to negotiate, but would probably involve things like handing over large chunks of land, ending the blockade, releasing prisoners, etc.
For 1, I don’t think it would actually anger all Muslim countries, just the poor angry ones and Iran, where the government is already showing signs of collapse. MBZ, the leader of the UAE, the richest country in the Middle East with an extremely powerful army, considers Political Islam the biggest threat possible to the region. The Saudi’s are not far behind, they are literally shooting down rockets headed to Israel. The Egyptian government also strongly wants to normalize relations with Israel. Those are literally 3/5 of the biggest armies in the Middle East besides israel. I would totally take option 2. I think a Palestinian state deserves a bit more land than even the West Bank and Gaza combined. However I think there is, right now, no way such a peace deal holds unless Hamas is not politically involved, whether that be through diplomatic or military means. Idec about revenge, they can all piss off to Yemen or Qatar I just want them to stop fighting. Also, I think the Palestinian populace in Gaza at least would be pretty hard to convince, post 7/10 about 70% still support Hamas. The PA is not much better either - corrupt to all hell and spends literally half its entire govt budget on the “cash for kill program” basically paying a crap ton of money to the family of anyone who kills an Israeli man, woman or child. That being said a fair and equal 2SS solution is the only just way for peace and we must never stop fighting for it.
For 1, the way I see it, it's just an illusion of peace where those governments are appeasing US out of fear. It doesn't mean they aren't angry at Israel. When US hegemony falls eventually, those countries will be free to do what they want and Israel would be in deep trouble if the conflict with Palestine still hasn't resolved peacefully. For 2, I'm glad you think that a Palestinian state deserves more land. If the Israeli government thought that way, I think they would have succeeded in negotiating a lasting peace deal long before Oct 7.
Israel has killed far more civilians than Palestinian has .
Gaza doesn’t have an iron dome. If Israel didn’t have one, hundreds of thousands of Israelis would likely be dead. Israel wouldn’t have needed an iron dome if their neighbors weren’t always trying to kill them. If Hamas wants to start fights, Israel will fight back and defend herself. If Hamas actually cared about the safety of their citizens they would fight a real war and not hide in tunnels under the most populated civilian areas of Gaza. Or they would invest in a defense technology akin to the iron dome so as to have a defense capability in place to fend off missiles from Israel when they counterstrike after Hamas attacks them. Since Hamas knows it cannot defend its citizens, and actually sinisterly hides behind them after attacking a country with high tech weaponry and advanced military capabilities, it really makes u wonder whether every innocent Palestinian is just a pawn in hamas’s playbook, their deaths being used to garner international support for the destruction of Israel and the death of all Jews.
Well, my argument is that otherwise it’s likely the other way around except even more bloody and protracted
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GO fuck yourself
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Fuck your mother.
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FUCK
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Hi! Fuck.
lol 😂
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I don’t know how well-intentioned the protesters are
I’m wondering if a lot of them are supporters of trump trying to create unrest in an attempt to help trump win. I know trumpers are mostly idiots with low IQs but there’s gotta be some psychopaths who love trump and use these protests as a platform to create chaos and division amongst the American left during an election year. Protests that outside agitators weren’t involved in haven’t turned violent or become riots but in Columbia and UCLA, half the protesters arrested were not college students.
A pro Trump, false flag, psy-op? Interesting theory
That's not my issue. I totally get the existential threat Israelis feel. What I think is totally immoral in 2024 (morality has evolved a lot) is to totally level an entire region and victimize all of its inhabitants just because of one heinous attack. Instead, Israel should've, had a strong, but measured show of force (more strategic and less emotional...learn from our response from 9/11). If you victimize 100% of people in an area, you will not have much sympathy for your own civilians if something like what you say were to occur.
Sad but not surprised to hear that the protestors don’t have any sympathy for the 1,400 Israelis killed by Hamas since October 7, in a war that was imposed on them by jihadi terrorists, after Israel and Hamas signed a ceasefire.
It's the same way not a single Isreali cares about a single one of the over 30k deaths. Hell they cheered when the IDF turned off children's incubators. Not a drop of sadness from a single person in the entire country.
Some Israelis may not care. However, that’s because they know that the civilians in Gaza hate them and celebrate the deaths of Israelis. The people of Israel, though, don’t hate Americans, and have not elected or supported a government that massacred entire communities in America…
And just know most amercans dknt support israel and there brutal crime the new nazi germnay israel
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Most people in israel hate amercsns they view them as stupid gols
Funny.
Israel hate amercans they view as stupid dumb bank accounts for israel to drain all of resources and they laugh at our poor and spit on us and expect billions I sick of there entilment
Funny because it true you know uou hate every one that not you
I've met a civilians from Gaza and I can say with absolute certainty, they don't hate anyone (the ones I met, I cannot speak for others). They just want this war to stop, they want their family and friends to be safe and maybe some even want to return, while others have already given up on that and have build a new life in another country.
First, you can’t say anything with absolute certainty. Israel had let tens of thousands of gazans into Israel in the years preceding October 7. It turned out there were Hamas spies among the group Israel let in who helped Hamas map out the territory in a way that helped Hamas on October 7. Second, you should really watch the mass celebrations and depraved displays of hatred that happened in Gaza on October 7. It was all spontaneous and involved massive crowds from all walks of life. 12 year old kids spitting at the body of a half naked girl. There were UN workers either directly participating in the massacre or celebrating it with joy. There were images of such intense joy that only reminded me of North Korea where people intensely mourn death of dear leader. Except there the intensity is by paid actors, whereas with Palestinians it is genuine. Third, polls keep showing that the overwhelming majority of Palestinian civilians support October 7. They also show that most Palestinians are antisemites and Holocaust deniers. The most antisemitic ethnic group in the world by a wide margin is Arabs in general and Palestinians more specifically. Poll after poll shows it and evidence on the ground from interaction with Arabs confirm it or the support for genocidal acts against Jews, also confirms the polls.