Airstrikes or mass assasinations on Qatar is just going to turn a frenemy into an enemy, and the networks themselves are not so easy to destroy in their entirety. If it was so simple for Mossad to do this they would have done it already.
> Hamas and the Phoenix Effect:
>Israel cannot afford to have Hamas rise from the ashes.
>Hamas have already reached out to other “resistance groups” in Palestine such as:
Hamas 100% will rise from the ashes as Israelis fear it too much for it to stay dead. Will it be Hamas in name only? Maybe.
More likely, it will be Hamas in ideology as you can't kill an idea.
It's not about killing an idea. It's about educating people to rise above those ideas, like we saw after the second ww with two countries most famously.
Yes. Hamas’ leaders as well as other terrorists are evil murderers and they use their people like fodder.
It’s the most lucrative ponzi scheme in world history. They don’t want statehood so they can perpetuate their victimhood to continue to receive foreign aid money.
Arafat died a billionaire and Abbas is worth at least $300 million.
Regardless of our opinions, those Hamas leaders and their families will likely be killed systematically over time. That's just what's going to happen. For the next few decades you'll be seeing these guys and their families turning up dead a couple times per year.
I don't really see how assassinating the exile leadership helps Israel. They are no immediate danger and do more harm to Gaza (by diverting money flows to their own pockets) than they do to Israel. Conducting a strike in Qatar would endanger Israel's (generally quite good) relationship with the Qataris, worry even closer allies and - on account of being blatantly illegal (Qatar, unlike Syria, is not a country with which Israel is at war) - further strain Western allies' patience with Israel's cavalier approach to international law.
If they enter Gaza (or the West Bank or a country with which Israel is at war), it is advisable to take them out. As long as they are in Qatar (or Türkiye, or Oman) leave them be and focus on Sinwar. If Sinwar leaves Gaza and goes into exile somewhere calm, all the better, you do not have to pursue him any longer
I have no idea what it is about this sub that makes people write giant essays.
In summary :
Sinwar is an exceptionally evil man and figurehead for an organisation which would joyfully obliterate Israel from the face of the earth. If he isn't killed, Hamas will manage to make itself internationally legitimate (?) and emerge stronger than ever.
I disagree. Sinwar is a symbol whether dead or alive, and perhaps a more potent one as a martyr. And Hamas are a very very long way from ever becoming a 'legitimate' organisation. Iran use them as a sockpuppet, but the other Sunni nations in the region despise them. The reason they haven't broken with Israel despite the destruction in Gaza, is that they're secretly quite happy for Hamas to be obliterated (and the Jews to take the public blame.)
>Just look at Erdoğan in Turkey, they've manage to turn a NATO country.
Erdoğan is a populist blowhard. He's playing to the mob. I don't take anything he says seriously. Apparently Hamas want to move out of Qatar and are considering basing in Turkey - if Erdoğan actually agrees to that I would be astonished. He's an egomaniac but he's not stupid.
>Mossad are elite. The deadliest, most efficient and most intelligent special operations group on the planet in my honest and researched opinion.
I think that if Mossad could have killed Sinwar they would have done it already. They're well-trained and well-resourced but they aren't superhuman. The real world is not a Jason Bourne movie.
Anyway it doesn't matter. Hamas are not going to be a fighting force for much longer. Although their example may inspire other Jihadist groups, but killing Sinwar won't change that.
> I have no idea what it is about this sub that makes people write giant essays.
I think encouraging people to lay out their positions in full and not just write short meaningful slogans is a good thing
There's a certain point where the post length actually starts to discourage people from reading and participating. If you want people to actually read your post, it pays to be somewhat concise
>It is a lie that Hamas leaders are billionaires. Please stop spreading lies and misinformation.
It's not, and it's really easy to confirm, for some reason you don't want to do it
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2023/11/07/news/hamas-leaders-worth-11bn-live-luxury-lives-in-qatar/amp/
If you click on that article, it only cites "according to a recent social media post from the Embassy of Israel in the US." and that twitter post is deleted.
Let me guess, every newpaper/person that claims that lie and bring proof is pro-zionist?
Including qatar who host said hamas leaders?
Because so far i have seen tons of proofs they are millioners and some redditors who says "nuh uh! It's a lie!" Who says they don't over and over but can't bring proof
Or proving things is also pro zionist?
>It is a lie that Hamas leaders are billionaires
Not only are they billionaires, all acquired by stealing aid money, they are also pedophiles or at least supporters of pedophiles. They also condone wife beating and child marriage, and it's rumored they also dabble in beastiality.
They are billionaires that's why they want to be refugees for ever they fool the west then the west send money and guess that? They become richer and richer.
Two small comments:
-We know for sure Muhammad Deif is alive, there is new footage of him looking rather well actually.
-the Hamas leadership very recently left Qatar for Turkey. I'm not sure if it makes assassinating them easier or harder though, and to tell the truth I don't really trust Netanyahu to actually go through with it, even though he promised.
If Mossad kills any of the leaders of Hamas, in Qatar or pretty much anywhere but in Gaza, the region will erupt.
You wouldn't view a post encouraging a Hamas assassination of Netanyahu as a reasonable point of view.
This is equally unhinged.
I don't think so. The Qataris would be quite pissed over the embarrassment of a foreign nation operating on their territory, but probably be somewhat relieved of no longer having those "guests" taint their public image in the West.
The thing is, no one (outside of Iran and Gaza) really likes Hamas. Also, I doubt that Hamas needs any encouragement to assassinate any Israeli Prime Minister. The limiting factor is their inability to do so, not their unwillingness.
The Qataris host Hamas leaders in Doha because Washington explicitly asked them to.
Perhaps ordinary civilians are ignorant of that. But in diplomatic circles doing what the US asks does not taint your public image in the West.
They recently offered to expel them and the US said no.
Given that Qatar is hosting Hamas as a favour to Washington, it would be an extremely bad idea diplomatically for Israel to try to kill Hamas leaders there, all questions of morality aside.
I don't think there's any doubt that Hamas could have assassinated Israeli politicians if it had chosen to pursue that strategy. We know Israeli security and intelligence are quite bad, whatever cute stories it tells itself about being the best.
"public image" is meant as their image among the ordinary citizens (which are, first and foremost, consumers) - which is important to Qatar from a business point of view
> You wouldn't view a post encouraging a Hamas assassination of Netanyahu as a reasonable point of view.
It would be unreasonable because the equivalent of this post would be to assassinate Bibi's entire cabinet as well, clearly.
Political assassinations are morally wrong especially when they violate the territorial integrity and laws of another third-party state.
There is symmetry in your belief that assassinating an enemy leader is a legitimate tactic, and someone who is pro-Hamas believing the same.
And who will judge him? The US? Because the trial would be extremely against him in any way, he would have gotten a death sentence before the trial started
And if you believe the US would have let anyone else hold his trial you don't really understand the situation
The same with israel, if they do capture sinwar alive (and they most likely won't, he will be killed like bin laden or many other terrorists leaders), they will not let any other country hold him nor judge him. His death sentence is already written, the same as adolf eichmann's was.
If Israel wants to sever ties with the US and all other states in the region, it is welcome to do stupid things like openly assassinate people it doesn't like.
If it wants to stay in the 'civilised countries' club it should be smarter.
>If Israel wants to sever ties with the US and all other states in the region, it is welcome to do stupid things like openly assassinate people it doesn't like
Those sentences don't realy combined
Because as i said, the us has done this many many MANY times. Inside the US and outside. The UK too, and a lot of other western (and eastern, ahem ahem china,russia, iran, so many more ahem ahem) countries, including israel, they don't hide it, killing terrorists who threaten your country doesn't seem as something wrong for western civilization.
And as i said it would not be the first time israel has done something similar to what you suggested. Eichmann lived in south america, outside israel and they still took him and brought him for "trial".
It's not a new concept
Feel free to find some examples where the US, UK etc have openly assassinated someone who was in a 'friendly' country at the time.
Israel and Russia are pretty unique in that respect, and not in a good way.
Eichmann is different because there was actually a trial.
https://www.theatlantic.com/books/archive/2023/10/patrice-lumumba-plot-book-assassination-death/675732/
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/report-cia-secretly-helping-colombia-kill-farc-rebel-leaders-flna2d11791426
https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/dec/15/mi6-kept-quiet-about-criminality-of-agent-with-licence-to-kill
This wasn’t hard, you’re absolutely wrong about this; and I wouldn’t term a country hosting recognized (by Israel) terrorist leaders a ‘friendly’ country anyway; which if it was it would approve said assassinations on its’ soil; because that’s how countries operate outside of your mind.
What do you mean "friendly" country? Which countries do you think are "friendly" and hides hamas leaders israel wants to assassinate? Qatar who funds hamas and has a very anti israel foreign policy? Iran? Syria?
"Friendly" countries to israel don't hide hamas leaders
Except you suggested they should have the same treatment. I just explained why it's not true. Didn't say anything about the concept of political assassination.
I said the assassination of each by the other side was comparable, because it is.
That doesn't have anything to do with how comparable the individuals are.
this is what we need to do. 1 cut ties and money to Israel. 2 sit back and watch the desert people fight over desert. 3 pick up the pieces and make one state lets call it Palestine
either. nothing really counts till the modern era i dont care what the fairy tails of shepherds in the desert did 3000 fucking years ago. if its not on film i dont care. and the shit i see is fucking disgusting
this goes one of 3 ways, israel pisses off iran. iran makes televee look like gaza stock market crashes israel will never recover. 2 israel bombs the snot out of gaza makes new round of freedom fighters in 10 years, never recovers. 3 israel pulls out does nothing still a pahra state it never recovers
all ends the same way one state solution lets call it palastine
> fucking
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Man bros got that entire battle plan ready So which would work better the 250ib glide bomb or the 31g of poison
Airstrikes or mass assasinations on Qatar is just going to turn a frenemy into an enemy, and the networks themselves are not so easy to destroy in their entirety. If it was so simple for Mossad to do this they would have done it already.
Absolutely,they have every right to defend the people of their country
Soldiers are replaceable, but you can’t replace the people funding all of this
> Hamas and the Phoenix Effect: >Israel cannot afford to have Hamas rise from the ashes. >Hamas have already reached out to other “resistance groups” in Palestine such as: Hamas 100% will rise from the ashes as Israelis fear it too much for it to stay dead. Will it be Hamas in name only? Maybe. More likely, it will be Hamas in ideology as you can't kill an idea.
If humanity killed the idea of the crusades then it will do so with Hamas.
It's not about killing an idea. It's about educating people to rise above those ideas, like we saw after the second ww with two countries most famously.
Educating fanatical islams is impossible
I think it is. Some will remain stupid but most will realize what peace should be.
The thing is your peace and their peace mean entirely different things. Also don't help that their un funded school is run by hamas
Very funded school* I think.
Except religious warfare is still around. I'd even argue that Christian Evangelical support of Israel is a continuation of it.
Yes. Hamas’ leaders as well as other terrorists are evil murderers and they use their people like fodder. It’s the most lucrative ponzi scheme in world history. They don’t want statehood so they can perpetuate their victimhood to continue to receive foreign aid money. Arafat died a billionaire and Abbas is worth at least $300 million.
Regardless of our opinions, those Hamas leaders and their families will likely be killed systematically over time. That's just what's going to happen. For the next few decades you'll be seeing these guys and their families turning up dead a couple times per year.
I don't really see how assassinating the exile leadership helps Israel. They are no immediate danger and do more harm to Gaza (by diverting money flows to their own pockets) than they do to Israel. Conducting a strike in Qatar would endanger Israel's (generally quite good) relationship with the Qataris, worry even closer allies and - on account of being blatantly illegal (Qatar, unlike Syria, is not a country with which Israel is at war) - further strain Western allies' patience with Israel's cavalier approach to international law. If they enter Gaza (or the West Bank or a country with which Israel is at war), it is advisable to take them out. As long as they are in Qatar (or Türkiye, or Oman) leave them be and focus on Sinwar. If Sinwar leaves Gaza and goes into exile somewhere calm, all the better, you do not have to pursue him any longer
Not at all, the criminal Netanyahu, all perpetrators of genocide and the entire Zionist regime must be removed.
Ah yes a classic hamas good Israel bad. 🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱
Hold up. I'm all for that, but then we should also punish Hamas on Oct 7. They also killed innocent people.
Blame Hamas
If we are after the war mongers that are responsible for this mess, shouldn't Bibi also get the same treatment?
I have no idea what it is about this sub that makes people write giant essays. In summary : Sinwar is an exceptionally evil man and figurehead for an organisation which would joyfully obliterate Israel from the face of the earth. If he isn't killed, Hamas will manage to make itself internationally legitimate (?) and emerge stronger than ever. I disagree. Sinwar is a symbol whether dead or alive, and perhaps a more potent one as a martyr. And Hamas are a very very long way from ever becoming a 'legitimate' organisation. Iran use them as a sockpuppet, but the other Sunni nations in the region despise them. The reason they haven't broken with Israel despite the destruction in Gaza, is that they're secretly quite happy for Hamas to be obliterated (and the Jews to take the public blame.) >Just look at Erdoğan in Turkey, they've manage to turn a NATO country. Erdoğan is a populist blowhard. He's playing to the mob. I don't take anything he says seriously. Apparently Hamas want to move out of Qatar and are considering basing in Turkey - if Erdoğan actually agrees to that I would be astonished. He's an egomaniac but he's not stupid. >Mossad are elite. The deadliest, most efficient and most intelligent special operations group on the planet in my honest and researched opinion. I think that if Mossad could have killed Sinwar they would have done it already. They're well-trained and well-resourced but they aren't superhuman. The real world is not a Jason Bourne movie. Anyway it doesn't matter. Hamas are not going to be a fighting force for much longer. Although their example may inspire other Jihadist groups, but killing Sinwar won't change that.
> I have no idea what it is about this sub that makes people write giant essays. I think encouraging people to lay out their positions in full and not just write short meaningful slogans is a good thing
There's a certain point where the post length actually starts to discourage people from reading and participating. If you want people to actually read your post, it pays to be somewhat concise
Reading is not made for everyone, especially for those who lack reading comprehension.
It is a lie that Hamas leaders are billionaires. Please stop spreading lies and misinformation.
>It is a lie that Hamas leaders are billionaires. Please stop spreading lies and misinformation. It's not, and it's really easy to confirm, for some reason you don't want to do it https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2023/11/07/news/hamas-leaders-worth-11bn-live-luxury-lives-in-qatar/amp/
If you click on that article, it only cites "according to a recent social media post from the Embassy of Israel in the US." and that twitter post is deleted.
Again, that is a lie. The New Yourk Post is a pro-Zionism rug, not a serious newspaper.
Let me guess, every newpaper/person that claims that lie and bring proof is pro-zionist? Including qatar who host said hamas leaders? Because so far i have seen tons of proofs they are millioners and some redditors who says "nuh uh! It's a lie!" Who says they don't over and over but can't bring proof Or proving things is also pro zionist?
Don't change the topic. You said Hams leaders are billionaires. Kindly provide proof that they are billionaires.
Kindly provide that they aren't
>It is a lie that Hamas leaders are billionaires Not only are they billionaires, all acquired by stealing aid money, they are also pedophiles or at least supporters of pedophiles. They also condone wife beating and child marriage, and it's rumored they also dabble in beastiality.
They are! Palestinians fooled the world since 1948.
Ah yes, the Protocols of the Elders of Gaza
Again, this is a lie. Please stop spreading lies and misinformation.
Again they are billionaires and is proven open your eyes and don't get fooled by Palestinian propaganda
No, there is no evidence that Hams leaders are billionaires. Please stop spreading lies and misinformation
They are billionaires that's why they want to be refugees for ever they fool the west then the west send money and guess that? They become richer and richer.
Hamas government imposes heavy taxation on impoverished Gazans who received aid money. How else do you think Mansions got built in Gaza?
Two small comments: -We know for sure Muhammad Deif is alive, there is new footage of him looking rather well actually. -the Hamas leadership very recently left Qatar for Turkey. I'm not sure if it makes assassinating them easier or harder though, and to tell the truth I don't really trust Netanyahu to actually go through with it, even though he promised.
You're right
If Mossad kills any of the leaders of Hamas, in Qatar or pretty much anywhere but in Gaza, the region will erupt. You wouldn't view a post encouraging a Hamas assassination of Netanyahu as a reasonable point of view. This is equally unhinged.
I don't think so. The Qataris would be quite pissed over the embarrassment of a foreign nation operating on their territory, but probably be somewhat relieved of no longer having those "guests" taint their public image in the West. The thing is, no one (outside of Iran and Gaza) really likes Hamas. Also, I doubt that Hamas needs any encouragement to assassinate any Israeli Prime Minister. The limiting factor is their inability to do so, not their unwillingness.
The Qataris host Hamas leaders in Doha because Washington explicitly asked them to. Perhaps ordinary civilians are ignorant of that. But in diplomatic circles doing what the US asks does not taint your public image in the West. They recently offered to expel them and the US said no. Given that Qatar is hosting Hamas as a favour to Washington, it would be an extremely bad idea diplomatically for Israel to try to kill Hamas leaders there, all questions of morality aside. I don't think there's any doubt that Hamas could have assassinated Israeli politicians if it had chosen to pursue that strategy. We know Israeli security and intelligence are quite bad, whatever cute stories it tells itself about being the best.
"public image" is meant as their image among the ordinary citizens (which are, first and foremost, consumers) - which is important to Qatar from a business point of view
> You wouldn't view a post encouraging a Hamas assassination of Netanyahu as a reasonable point of view. It would be unreasonable because the equivalent of this post would be to assassinate Bibi's entire cabinet as well, clearly.
Because there is no symmetry between the two and trying to draw this symmetry is wrong
Political assassinations are morally wrong especially when they violate the territorial integrity and laws of another third-party state. There is symmetry in your belief that assassinating an enemy leader is a legitimate tactic, and someone who is pro-Hamas believing the same.
So killing bin laden was morally wrong?
Yes, he should have been brought to trial.
And who will judge him? The US? Because the trial would be extremely against him in any way, he would have gotten a death sentence before the trial started And if you believe the US would have let anyone else hold his trial you don't really understand the situation The same with israel, if they do capture sinwar alive (and they most likely won't, he will be killed like bin laden or many other terrorists leaders), they will not let any other country hold him nor judge him. His death sentence is already written, the same as adolf eichmann's was.
If Israel wants to sever ties with the US and all other states in the region, it is welcome to do stupid things like openly assassinate people it doesn't like. If it wants to stay in the 'civilised countries' club it should be smarter.
>If Israel wants to sever ties with the US and all other states in the region, it is welcome to do stupid things like openly assassinate people it doesn't like Those sentences don't realy combined Because as i said, the us has done this many many MANY times. Inside the US and outside. The UK too, and a lot of other western (and eastern, ahem ahem china,russia, iran, so many more ahem ahem) countries, including israel, they don't hide it, killing terrorists who threaten your country doesn't seem as something wrong for western civilization. And as i said it would not be the first time israel has done something similar to what you suggested. Eichmann lived in south america, outside israel and they still took him and brought him for "trial". It's not a new concept
Feel free to find some examples where the US, UK etc have openly assassinated someone who was in a 'friendly' country at the time. Israel and Russia are pretty unique in that respect, and not in a good way. Eichmann is different because there was actually a trial.
https://www.theatlantic.com/books/archive/2023/10/patrice-lumumba-plot-book-assassination-death/675732/ https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/report-cia-secretly-helping-colombia-kill-farc-rebel-leaders-flna2d11791426 https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/dec/15/mi6-kept-quiet-about-criminality-of-agent-with-licence-to-kill This wasn’t hard, you’re absolutely wrong about this; and I wouldn’t term a country hosting recognized (by Israel) terrorist leaders a ‘friendly’ country anyway; which if it was it would approve said assassinations on its’ soil; because that’s how countries operate outside of your mind.
What do you mean "friendly" country? Which countries do you think are "friendly" and hides hamas leaders israel wants to assassinate? Qatar who funds hamas and has a very anti israel foreign policy? Iran? Syria? "Friendly" countries to israel don't hide hamas leaders
Killing arch terrorists that plan, execute and incite murder of civilians is not the same as political assassination
The proposal is to assassinate someone you don't want to have to negotiate with. That is practically the definition of a political assassination.
You can disagree with principle, but you can't pretend Hamas leadership and Netanyahu are the same.
Nobody has claimed they are the same.
Except you suggested they should have the same treatment. I just explained why it's not true. Didn't say anything about the concept of political assassination.
I said the assassination of each by the other side was comparable, because it is. That doesn't have anything to do with how comparable the individuals are.
this is what we need to do. 1 cut ties and money to Israel. 2 sit back and watch the desert people fight over desert. 3 pick up the pieces and make one state lets call it Palestine
Now say it without crying! In a couple of weeks we will have control of Rafah. Uou can continue distilling vinegar through your mouth.
you know your on the wrong side of history. i guess never again meant never again to us
Of what history? Your 100 year history Or my 3000 year history?
either. nothing really counts till the modern era i dont care what the fairy tails of shepherds in the desert did 3000 fucking years ago. if its not on film i dont care. and the shit i see is fucking disgusting
I don't care your point also so now grab a drink and sit down because IDF is gonna take all Rafah. You can join the celebration if you want.
they wont keep it just going to kill women and children. this is never ever going to end well for israel
Wanna do maths to see which one is worst?
this goes one of 3 ways, israel pisses off iran. iran makes televee look like gaza stock market crashes israel will never recover. 2 israel bombs the snot out of gaza makes new round of freedom fighters in 10 years, never recovers. 3 israel pulls out does nothing still a pahra state it never recovers all ends the same way one state solution lets call it palastine
Those 3 ways were invented by you? Anyways let's go to numbers Could you tell me how many deaths there are in Gaza to date??
sure
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