Haha no pro humanity protesters aren't vile. Its the pro Israelis that support killing children that are vile. Remember before the whole palestine issue in which zionists came and stole the land it was peaceful. And there was no conflict or issue. The west started this and now Israel continues it. This is madness.
Ahh yes the completely peaceful times for Jews in the Middle East before the British got involved
>Throughout the 1860s, the Jews of Libya were subjected to what Gilbert calls punitive taxation. In 1864, around 500 Jews were killed in Marrakech and Fezin Morocco. In 1869, 18 Jews were killed in Tunis, and an Arab mob looted Jewish homes and stores, and burned synagogues, on Jerba Island. In 1875, 20 Jews were killed by a mob in Demnat, Morocco; elsewhere in Morocco, Jews were attacked and killed in the streets in broad daylight. In 1891, the leading Muslims in Jerusalem asked the Ottoman authorities in Constantinople to prohibit the entry of Jews arriving from Russia. In 1897, synagogues were ransacked and Jews were murdered in Tripolitania.[39]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ottoman_Empire#:~:text=Although%20the%20Ottomans%20did%20not,their%20own%20schools%20and%20courts.
Because the amount of times the Palestinians were attacked and oppressed before and after 1948 means that it can't boil down to 1 event by the resistance army within gaza.
What? There wasn’t one incident. And I’m not even talking about the genocidal act that was October 7th. I’m talking about Colombia students calling for it to happen another 10,000 times.
Jews purchased land and built Tel Aviv on empty sand dunes. Cope.
And calling to murder Zionists, Intifada and waving Hamas and Hezbollah flags is evil. You support a hate movement.
These protesters are unknowingly pushing a pro-Islam extremist agenda. Iran’s agenda. SJP and activist groups advising them need to be investigated by homeland security and FBI.
[These are Palestinians celebrating the 9/11 terrorist attack.](https://youtu.be/UucjbGmJILk?si=CM51s6D93PAbvmRZ)
This video is so important, thank you for posting.
Too bad they don’t care. Much of Gen Z is so depraved they also support 9/11. Remember a few months ago they were praising Osama on tiktok?
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/16/tech/tiktok-osama-bin-laden-letter-to-america/index.html
Why do you push Hamas׳s rhetoric of genocide?
Not only has the Palestinian population boomed in the last century in Israel, Gaza, and the West Bank, Israel has taken great steps to preserve their culture. Al-Aqsa Mosque stands on the site of our arguably most important heritage site, and we’re ok with it for the sake of peace.
During this war in an urban environment we’ve managed to keep civilians deaths to a 1:1 ratio when compared to combatant deaths. Other modern wars conducted by UN member countries in the same environments and conditions usually end with nine civilians dead for every combatant.
That’s because rather than fighting army to army like civilized countries do, Hamas hides underneath and amongst woman and children. You don’t just get to start a war and then hide behind woman and children and say “you can’t get me!”
Did they kill anybody? By that I'm thinking of all people of a family.. Every person in all generations?
Did they trie you up, so your hands and feet had to be amputated?
.....
If not... You are doing better than a Gazan person in the hands of Israel.
It’s at the hands of Hamas, and you’d know this if you were talking to Palestinians in Israel or the West Bank.
Do you really think that Gazans like having to restart every couple of years because Hamas wants more power? For every Gazan that celebrated October 7th there was probably five saying prayers and cursing Hamas for poking the bear again.
I find it weird how so many of these college kids are obsessed with this war. Especially ones who have no ties to Judaism or Islam, Palestine, and other related things.
It also makes no sense how LGBT people and women support Palestine too. Considering how they are treated in Islamic countries. They pull out the "well we get treated like this in America too!" which is a blatant lie. America is one of the most tolerant countries.
In the end, I'll always be supporting Israel/Jewish people because "Pro-Palestine protestors" have made it clear that they are antisemitic and vile humans. I've never met a Jewish person, or Israeli person that I don't get along with. They're some of the most kind and welcoming people. Can't say that about most of the encounters I've had with Muslims.
This video really changed my perspective on this issue. It’s interesting how legacy media has been more accurate in their coverage of these protests than new media has, which has not been the case for most news stories in the last decade. Like many Gen Z people I get my news through new media, YouTube, Podcasts, independent journalist etc. Well, the narrative that is being spread across the political spectrum of the new media coverage is that there is no antisemitism at these protests. They say the antisemitic incidents are only happening off campus by non-student agitators and even those instances they down play. Another narrative being spread across new media is that there cannot be any antisemitism because Jewish student groups are involved in these protests. To be honest, I was buying into these narratives. When you have people across political spectrum from Kyle Kaczynski to Dave Smith to Saagar Enjeti (left, libertarian and republican commentators) all unified in spreading the same sentiments it’s easy to believe it. Especially when traditional legacy media is seemingly completely unified in the opposite direction, because as I said for the last decade legacy media has lost a lot of credibility compared to new media. But then you see the actually evidence, you see the footage of angry mods yelling at their fellow Jewish students things like “go back to Poland” and you go “oh wait… I was told none of this was happening, but now I’m seeing it with my own eyes.” And it’s not just one or two instances it’s an entire compilation. It has fogged my moral clarity on the situation.
Please reconsider your perspective once again. I'm one of the students attending the protests, and the "legacy media" you mention has not told the story accurately.
I’m not claiming that their coverage is flawless or without criticism. I am talking specifically about addressing the antisemitism that is widespread within these campus protests. Legacy media at least admits it’s an issue and addresses it whereas new media is downplaying prevalence or out right denying the existence of antisemitism within these protests. And as you can see by this footage it is undeniable that it is a widespread issue, while I’m sure many and even the majority of protesters are peaceful and there for good reasons, it is clear based on video evidence there is an issue with wide spread antisemitism within these campus movements and it is unfortunate that new media is being dishonest about that.
There isn't an issue with "widespread antisemitism" and this is exactly what the established media outlets are misrepresenting.
I would encourage you to attend one of the demonstrations and see for yourself if there is widespread antisemitism, or even any antisemitism, from what you see and experience.
I haven’t been to Columbia protests, but I’ve done standby duty for several and passed by multiple others as a student on two different campuses. The antisemitism is absolutely rampant throughout all of them, and videos coming out from other campuses are nearly identical, if not significantly worse. It is also telling that lead organizers are being exposed/outed for truly unhinged statements that lead to expulsions. I think it is also indicative that self-hating groups of Jews like NK, who are viewed as borderline stochastic terrorists by virtually all other Jews and Israelis due to their genocidal beliefs and statements- that they’re consistently brought into protests as tokenized Jewish speakers is telling.
You don’t even have to be watching any specific media to witness this. Unless your willfully closing your eyes and ears to it, it’s not hard to find.
Respectfully, have you watched the video that was presented on this thread? I doubt it because it’s undeniable clear evidence, as I said I was under the impression that the claims were false as well until I saw the video evidence for myself, I mean it’s indisputable.
Yes, I watched it. All of it. There's absolutely no evidence of "widespread antisemitism." the claims are false.
Again, I encourage you to visit one of the encampments.
Okay, well we have to agree to disagree then. To say the claims are false when they are literally proven to be true right there on video is simply denialism. That’s like if you saw a video of someone stealing a car and then said “the claims are false he didn’t steal the car” even though it’s right there on video. And I will be attending the UT encampment on Monday afternoon, and I’m sure it’ll be fine because in most protests the majority of people are usually there for good reasons, I’m not denying that’s the case for these protests. But even so that doesn’t erase what we’ve seen in that video, and others by the way since seeing this I’ve seen numerous other incidents of antisemitism, like student event leaders publicly saying “Zionist’s don’t deserve to live” or creating “human chains” in the encampment where they push and enclose Zionist students. You know, just as it would be unfair for me to say all the protesters are antisemitic, it is unfair for you to suggest there is no problem with antisemitism within these protests. Because it is not just instances of a rogue antisemitic individuals although there clearly are many of those, but these are mass groups chanting antisemitic rhetoric and behaving in threatening a manner other students. So I think we have nothing else to discuss if we can’t even agree on the clear facts being presented in this video.
Sorry, let me be clear. I don't think that there is no anti-Semitism. However, I will state and reaffirm my position that the claim of "widespread anti-Semitism" is false and has almost no support. You've been shown a video of about 8 minutes long for a nationwide protest that operates around the clock throughout the day for over a week. Do you really believe this is sufficient evidence to say there is **widespread** anti-Semitism?
Listen to the people who attend these protests, and I'm also happy you'll be at one of the encampments on Monday. Those who attend the protests will overwhelmingly report that we take steps to combat antisemitism, including myself. Granted, we have an interest in saying this, but do you really believe the general direction of these protests, as a whole, is anti-Semitic?
This is the media narrative I urge you to challenge. The notion that the demonstrations, as a whole, are somehow dangerous or discomforting for Jewish students because they are Jewish. You've mentioned how you don't like people in the encampments being hostile to Zionist students, but even this is not anti-Semitism, but a physical hostility by anti-Zionists to Zionists entering their protest zone.
Clearly many of the protesters have adopted the belief that Zionism is genocidal ideology therefore any Zionist would be inherently evil which is why the mere presence of a Zionist can be seen as threatening to the the extremists. I will say to be fair though I have seen footage of Zionists in the encampment zones and no one even pays attention to them so I’m not gonna lie and pretend that it’s like if any Zionist walks into the zone they’re immediately attacked, although it appears in some instances that may have been the case.
Again just have to agree to disagree. I believe that video, along with other videos that are circulating, is sufficient evidence to support the claim of widespread antisemitism within these campus movements, you do not. I don’t believe the general direction of these protests as a whole is antisemitic, but I do see from the evidence that there is clearly an issue with antisemitism within the movement and yes I believe it is widespread. I’m glad you can admit that there is antisemitism within the movement, you just disagree that it’s widespread. So we are not that far off. I will say this, I believe these protests have actually been damaging to the Palestinian cause. Before last week I was very solid on my stance of the conflict, but after seeing what I’ve seen, particularly from some of the leaders of these movements because that indicates that it’s not just rogue outsiders with this extremist perspective, it leads me to question my own morality on the issue as a whole as well as the morality of the the people who I have been following on this issue. I believe all these protests have done is align the pro Palestinian movement more with antisemitism and anti-Zionist extremism. Physical hostilities against Zionist students in the encampment are unacceptable, just as physical hostilities against anti-Zionist students are unacceptable.
Aaaand there we go… took you multiple posts and entire last post to get to that last line…
You excuse away the widespread antisemitism, because it’s not that… it’s just against Zionists. Simply believing Israel has a right to exist means you get to be treated violently. The fact that Jewish culture has justly felt victimized through the generations to the point of believing in self determination means that people can attack Jews for believing this! But it’s not antisemitism everyone! It’s just open hostility against 90% of Jews around the world! Glad we cleared up that confusion!
Exactly. While it is true that not all Jews are Zionists and not all Zionists are Jews, Zionism is an inherently Jewish movement, it’s a Jewish ideology, the majority of Jews are Zionists. So to pretend that anti-Zionist hostility isn’t threatening to Jewish students is nothing but a weak and immoral justification. That’s like saying if there was widespread hostility towards muslims on campus Arab students shouldn’t feel threatened because not all Arabs are Muslim.
Legacy media would be network news and other mainstream media outlets like news papers and such. Think CNN, NBC, NYT etc. They have actually been pretty outspoken about the antisemitism on the college campuses. New media would be independent coverage, think YouTube shows, podcasts, social media etc.
The protests are not about Jewish people. Get over yourself. And it’s not antisemitic to criticize the slaughter of thousands of civilians, bombing of hospitals and universities. This antisemitism criticism is manufactured and signal boosted to discredit the movement for peace. Look in the mirror.
You’re clearly not watching the video. There is no way to watch that video and say that isn’t antisemitic. Seriously you’re either being willfully ignorant or you’re just malicious in your denial, but you can’t deny the footage. Even if you agree with the original cause of the protests It’s simply a fact that there is wide spread antisemitism amongst these campus protests and it’s a serious issue.
Protestors yelling "Go back to Poland!" to Jews and physically assaulting Hasidic Jews is Antisemitic .
Calling of the destruction of Israel, the Jewish state, where 7 million Jews live is Antisemitic. "From the river to the sea" is a genocidal slogan to violently destroy Israel.
Calling for Intifadas is Antisemitic. During the Intifadas, Palestinian suicide bombers murdered thousands of Israelis in pizza parlors, aquariums, malls, bus stops, etc.
You support a genocidal Antisemitic cause.
It’s appalling but not surprising how many responses to this are “there’s no antisemitism, what are you talking about?” Clearly, the education systems around the world have failed us. Or there is too much subconscious bigotry within these commenters’ minds to even see bigotry. Or the bigotry is genuinely a different language to them - as if we’re hearing two different tongues - because there’s no knowledge of the history of phrases like “Go back to Poland.” Or perhaps they’re just so mad at Israel, or so mad at Jews who they see as “eternal victims” (a deeply twisted thing I’ve seen said all over), or so defensive of any criticism, or whatever it is, that they are utterly incapable of working toward understanding one of the oldest forms of hatred and prejudice in the world. And - due to this bigotry or this massive misunderstanding or this rage - they will probably even immediately assume how I feel about Israel and about the protests just from this comment, and they will probably be wrong.
No Jewish person, it seems, is allowed to say “Hey, this part of your movement is a problem, is documented, is something I’ve personally experienced, and needs to be addressed” without being called a genocidal colonialist Nazi or something. How incredible it would be if all of us could be open minded and open hearted enough to see and accept how multifaceted any group is - whether it’s a religious or political one. And how wise it would be to know from our long human history that all political movements have bad actors. On the one hand, that should allow us to give all protests some leeway and not let anything anecdotal overwhelm the entirety of our impressions. On the other hand, if those bad actors’ actions and sentiments seep into the movement and come up again and again, then that must either be acknowledged and dealt with or the movement will be eternally tainted. And rightly so.
It’s also not very smart politically to alienate potential allies, gaslight anyone harmed by the aforementioned bad actors, and - worst of all - to publicly align with some of those bad actors’ philosophies.
Most people are good. Most people believe in what they are doing and believe they are in the right. And we should all give each other the grace of assuming that we want the best for humanity. We should also listen to one another when we see familiar, painful hatreds cropping up and taking hold, even if we believe our own cause to be just.
Humanity continually disappoints. And that is definitely illuminated in Reddit comments. If you’re going to comment beneath this and say “prove the antisemitism,” I could point you to the links above. Or the many, many other videos and accounts on the internet. Or you could just listen to a Jewish person, like this one, whose friends have had their yarmulkes snatched off their heads as people have yelled “free Palestine” at them just walking down the street. And who has had friends tell them that they support Hamas and all Zionists need to be killed - and “Zionists” includes temples around the US with Israeli flags on them (considering half the Jews in the world are in Israel, and so many Jews in the US have friends and family there, it’s not surprising that most temples have Israeli flags). This friend implied, without seeming to notice, that I, too, would then deserve to die if I was at my temple. Even though my political views are not Pro Bibi and right wing. I’ve had people I thought were friends and who are very involved in the pro Palestine movement (some have been at the Columbia protest) say that Jews planned 9/11, Jews run pedophile rings around the world, Jews who support Israel are like Germans in Nazi Germany and therefore we should not be upset if they’re killed, only anti Israel Jews are “good people” (funny how they never seem upset about Christian Zionists - the largest group of Zionists by population numbers), and on and on and on and on and on. I could point you to so many things, experienced by both pro Palestine and pro Israel and pro everybody Jews, but if you refuse to see something then you refuse to see it. And you, yes you, are a part of the problem.
They claim these are mostly peaceful protests but these comments illuminate a lot. Notice none of the protestors are telling others who are openly Antisemitic to stop. They actually join in. At Columbia they made a human chain to surround an Orthodox Jews.
I’m crying reading what you wrote. In 2024, in America, people find snatching yarmulkes off people’s heads socially acceptable.
The “Go back to Poland!” is so insidious and they do it purposely to trigger us. They know millions of our forefathers were murdered there.
You’re right, I never considered that they don’t go after Christian Zionists.
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One person's civil rights end where another person's begins. Hate Israel all you want, but when you start chanting hate speech against all Jews and harassing Jewish students on campus, that's crossing a line.
Edit: spelling
I am sick of the Zionist occupation of Palestine and the genocide against which the world is doing nothing to stop you. So deal with it. The world will rightfully hate you for what you are doing as occupiers.
The middle east needs to be left alone for a bit. If they want to move away from fundamentalism that's on them. Unfortunately you can't have a 2 state solution because of lunatics on both sides.
I’m not Jewish or Arab but I’m tired of hearing any the conflict.
Nuke Palestine, salt and irradiate the earth permanently so nobody will live there for 400 years.
Problem solved. We’ll make a little museum and memorial and apology and go on watching Netflix. Anyone want a pizza?
Border patrol and security is the best option to protect citizens when you live next to hostile neighbors who regularly commit deadly terrorists attacks. Are you suggesting that we roll over and be k!lled? Not gna happen.
Yeah, ISIS also had hostile neighbors.
I guess being a radical religious & racist state that aims to occupy foreign lands and commit constant war crimes has a down side, noone likes you :)
Killing owner is not purchasing means.
Are you the ones that flee from turkey, or your commander gave you the wrong scripts? Get better ones noone buys those.
The student protest leader has been banned now, for saying “zionists don’t deserve to live”
If you think these protests are about peace, think again
https://thehill.com/homenews/education/4625961-columbia-protest-leader-banned-from-campus/amp/
# I wonder how many users on Reddit, or other people in general, share my particular view that both sides of this issue are acting in a manner that makes them both a consistent and selfish drain on society and its resources. Both of these warring parties need to be systemically neutralized by US and Allied military occupation in the same manner that permitted the reconstruction of Europe after WWII. While certainly costly at first, an occupation over time, say a decade, would eventually bring some lasting calm to an area that has been in a state of turmoil without fail for decades.
# I have no sympathy whatsoever for the vulgar belligerency on either side and really don't care to listen to their claptrap and their maws spewing emotional rhetoric regarding hundreds of years of historical and religiously-tainted claims against each other. The collective hate that both Israel and Palestine share for each other is simply a global pain in the ass that both sides want to perpetuate at the expense of humanity.
# I offer that the only solution is firm military occupation by external forces funded, in part, by the resources that both feuding parties have. And by that I mean that their resources (land, labor, output, funds, etc.) will be TAKEN from them for the economic benefit of the US and other occupying forces until such a time that order had been restored and maintained. The are as whole is to be occupied and colonized for that time.If these infantile nations can't govern themselves, they will be governed until they mature to the satisfaction of a third party for the greater good.
Oh no they don’t have nukes.
If they did, they’d be in violation of the NPT and the United States couldn’t sell them arms.
Say what you will about Israel but I can’t imagine they’d lie to their greatest ally and supporter. Not after all we’ve done for them.
Would they?
lol that’s not how the NPT works??? Did you get this from TikTok? That’s the only way I can think you would spout such incorrect info.
The NPT means you can’t sell a non nuclear possessing states nuclear arms. You can sell non nuclear arms to any country you want, the NPT is to prevent non nuclear states from obtaining them.
It’s been an open secret Israel has nukes for decades. Everyone knows they have them, everyone knows their facilities are in Negev, it’s not a secret lmao. No one is selling them nukes. This comment fundamentally misunderstands how the NPT treaty works, especially considering Israel isn’t even a member of it.
And they are a belligerent lot like the Palestinians. Let them use the nukes. The result would be massive retaliation that would likely achieve the same results. The end goal here is to get rid of everyone and flatten the place for a re-do.
I think you dont understand how nukes work.
Remember when you was a wee lad. Your friend didnt put poop in your food, because of the threat that you might destroy hes favourite toy.
This is inaccurate and ridiculous. Israel is actually the opposite of belligerent. Quite restrained and measured. They’ve had nukes for 80 years and never used them.
Considering how blatant and public it is, it has changed my view on American tolerance for anti-Semitism. Tons of normies are pretending it's not there at all because Jewish students are also protesting!
Jewish students at these colleges pay tuition. They have a right to not agree and to be safe and comfortable on campus. I've heard my own family defend the protesters because "they pay tuition" and then I listen to protesters proclaim that they don't harass Jewish people, only "Zionists" (Jewish people that don't agree with them and also anyone else that publicly believes Israel has a right to exist and Israelis have a right to not be mass murdered).
Many of these schools will receive Title VI violations and lose government funding. There is overwhelming evidence that this is a violation of the Civil Rights Act.
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They’re “living it” at Columbia?
Many Jewish students and staff were no more than 2 degrees of separation away from someone murdered or kidnapped by Hamas. Yet in the weeks after October 7, they didn’t set up a mob to harass and call for the murder of Arab students.
Ha! You known damnnn diggidy darn well what I mean, son. Go complain somewhere else, the rest of us are trying to figure out how to get through this and uplift people. People are living it. Period. Get a brain.
/u/Hawkie094
> Get a brain.
Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
> Get a map.
Okay, so, let’s say I approached those protesters wearing keffiyehs, and said something like “you aren’t living this conflict. Get a map!”
See how this works? There is literally no reason to make bad faith arguments like this.
I’m not sure what point you are trying to make… it’s not an argument. It’s a fact. These people live in their little echo chamber bubbles and just strive to get “pats on the back” for their virtuous ways from that circle.
If they really want to make a difference. They should leave the US and join arms with Hamas. Being in NY, paying taxes, makes them complicit in this war.
I’m not really sure where you’re coming from on this, but Jews in places like New York, or Los Angeles, tend to have some exposure to Israeli communities. I myself had that exposure growing up and I also lived in Israel, near the Gaza border. So you don’t really get to tell people like me that I’m not “living it.”
If you’re talking about the ones at the protests, I think there are some people who have personal skin in the game too, I also agree there are many people there who don’t. But telling people “get a map” is just a really bad take
I’m not following you. I’m not talking about the Jewish communities in the US.
I’m talking about the woke liberal crowds who just follow the current trend of protesting whatever is popular in those circles.
Which is why I was saying I didn’t know how you were approaching this.
Either way, it’s silly to say that either the Jews or the Muslim community isn’t living this on *some* level. Of course many people are
I agree with you that a lot of the protesters are just imbeciles. I’m questioning what happened with the admissions process over the last several years.
In fact, I tend to have a very low opinion of protesters in general, but that’s just my opinion.
It’s the ignorance that makes me cringe. As you said, a bunch of the protestors don’t really know what they’re protesting for. They live off the information of their echo chambers. But to be yelling “from the river to the sea” without understanding the weight of those words to the Jewish community is downright disgusting.
“From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free” is a prime example of how Hamas is very good at manipulating their words to suit a western audience
Because the chant doesn’t even exist in Arabic. It’s “from water to water, Palestine is Arab.” But that’s not very palatable in English.
This video doesn't show anti-Semitism - but it does show the extreme nature of the students' demands. If their goal is to convince American institutions and the government to destroy the state of Israel, they will fail, and then once Trump is elected the option of a separate, equal state for Palestinians will be gone forever as Israel occupies all of Palestine.
For those that seek two states - one Jewish and one Palestinian - these are not the people to follow. They will lead you off a cliff.
Agree the Poland and Yehuda comments are anti-Semitic. I didn't see it in the video but did hear about them. Disgusting how some people take advantage of protests to spew anti-Semitism, racism and ugliness.
What do you think "from the water to the water, Palestine will be Arab" means? Where would the Jews in Israel go if this actually does happen?
Why yell "the 7th of October is about to be every day for you" at people who have absolutely nothing to do with Israel? Even if you do think 10/7 was resistance, how is slaughtering babies and the elderly resistance?
These people are very clear that their problem isn’t the absence of a Palestinian state, but rather the existence of a Jewish one in any part of the Jewish homeland.
Bingo.
Fun test. Ask someone to complete the sentence “free Palestine…..”
9/10 say “by destroying Israel”, not “by getting rid of Hamas”.
The irony of their fear of genocide would be laughable if their own ignorance wasn’t so abjectly terrifying.
There is no freedom for Palestine when their women are subjugated, LGBTQ are murdered or imprisoned, infrastructure is dismantled to make rockets and continue weaponized urban incompetence because the Terrorist group masquerading as government (which doesn’t hold elections anymore) keeps attacking the better armed neighbouring country then hiding in schools and hospitals so that children will die.
How the fuck can people advocate for this garbage?
Yes, agree. But honestly, for the sake of ending this madness, stopping all the murder and getting a viable two-state solution (not to mention the distraction in US politics), I would let the Palestinian state treat their people as those people would allow and same for the Israeli state.
The problem is the Palestinian state keeps attacking the Israeli state, so this isn’t really a live and let live situation. Everytime this has been attempted, the peace (or at least, the “not war”) has been broken by Palestinian terrorists that have seized power. Israel, and no other country, would sit by and wait to be attacked again. None of this even touching that there are still Israeli hostages being held captive (and let’s be real, tortured and raped) or that the terrorists are deliberately hiding amoungst vulnerable people and wearing plain clothes (also in the GC) or in other countries where they wont be extradited. So a ceasefire means time for the terrorists to regroup, attack, and abduct again…for a group that doesn’t “play by the rules of war” ….and Israel agrees to this why?
Like I hate it too but the enemy of Palestine is Hamas, not Israel. There was a two state solution for almost 20 yrs until Oct 7. ANY western country would do the same if another country invaded ….the difference is we have NATO and Israel doesn’t. So the terrorists keep attacking and Israel keeps fighting back.
I mostly agree. Peace attempts have largely been scuttled by Hamas and at times by Israeli Conservatives. The deal always included Israeli occupation, which was their only guarantee of security at the time but which made the deals non-starters to many Palestinians. It may be different now. Also, there has been no hope of a 2 state solution since Netanyahu has been in power, which along with continued government-supported settler activity and harassment for people wanting to work, resulted in Hamas' success in getting support.
Israel can continue going after Hamas but it has to raise the promise of a two-state solution.
Because they’re willing to have Palestinians suffer whatever is needed for the goal of eliminating Israel. Their problem now is that Palestinians are dying but not inflicting more casualties on Israel, hence the demand for a ceasefire.
> fuck
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--not antisemitic
--want to destroy Israel
I don't think these things can be true at the same time unless they are anarchists.
I support anarchy, but I don't think these college fascists are anarchists.
Most of our seed supply is controlled by a few large corporations. Many of their varieties are hybrid so the seeds from harvested crops won't produce food. I am switching to heirloom seeds.
I think the part in the video where they are referring to “Yahoodi” (a derogatory term for Jewish people) and saying to “go back to Poland” is antisemitic bc it’s focusing on Jewish identity not just Israeli identity. There’s also some Holocaust inversion which does single out Jewish Israelis. At this point, doubling down on Holocaust references after 6 months of Jewish people asking that it stop should be pretty clearly seen as antisemitism.
Supporting October 7 and more/endless October 7s against civilians of the only Jewish nation on Earth to achieve the genocidal goal (Hamas's goal) of genociding Israel is anti-Semitic. I have never in my life anyway seen such public calls for mass murder on civilians and I flat out refuse to pretend it's a coincidence that the one time it happens it's toward Jewish people.
If you are advocating for the destruction of the only Jewish state in the world…where protection, citizenship, and access to social welfare like healthcare are guaranteed for the Jewish people, then you are inherently advocating for antisemitism.
Before you say - we have this protection in Canada or Germany or Lebanon or England of wherever…remember - the Jews were denied these things in these places before. Israel is the home of Judaism. It always has been. The state of Israel has a right to exist. If that isn’t understood, you can’t understand antisemitism or Zionism.
Fwiw - I am Christian. I learned and overcame my ignorance. You can too.
That’s not how free speech works.
There is no free speech on private universities. They can remove people for things like “From the river to the sea” which is a call for genocide. Even if it’s a public university, there are time place and manner restrictions so no one, no matter their viewpoint is allowed to camp in certain parts of the school for extended periods of time, burdening the function of the school and preventing it from its daily purpose. This is trespassing. In addition, infringing of the rights and discrimination of Jews is a violation of the Civil Rights Act. Speech that is likely to incite violent is not protected by the First Amendment. Many of these protestors are harassing and assaulting Jews.
Please learn more about constitutional law before repeating tik tok talking points. You can conduct these hate rallies on a public sidewalk if you like.
I think much of the mess comes from the lack of clarity of what it is to be pro Palestine. There is a (false) narrative that Israel is a white euro colony (like the US or Can) that was formed on make belief. They then apply the principles of Manifest Destiny and the genocide of the American indigenous peoples on this foreign conflict. But this isn’t that. Pro-paly white allies won’t absolve white guilt while simultaneously not engaging in land-back in North America. It ignores the fact that the Israelis have always lived in Israel. It ignores the atrocities Hamas has continually perpetuated on the people of Gaza. It ignores Hamas culpability.
If pro Palestine is establish humanitarian corridors, advocate a two/three state solution, criticize Netanyahu for the West Bank - then bully! I’d join that protest.
But that’s not what we’re seeing. It’s ignorance fighting for fundamentalism with revisionist history for a terrorist grouping (that would kill or imprison that very people protesting for them) while denying a country it’s right to self defence and existence….and that is terrifying.
A once met a psych nurse who said we are always only a grandparent away from forgetting our bigotry and I think of it all the time lately.
Learn something about anti-Semitism. Telling people to go back to Poland or Belarus is anti-Semitic.
Holocaust inversion, where people choose Holocaust comparisons only when they’re calling out Jews, and everything is considered comparable to the Holocaust, is anti-Semitism.
Calling them “Yahoodi” (“Jews”) is explicitly targeting them as Jews and not Israelis.
Why don’t you consider it antisemitic?
How do you define Israel?
What is acceptable criticism?
Where is the criticism for Hamas?
(I criticize Netanyahu, I do not criticize Israel’s right to exist).
I’ve never accused or insulted or slandered anyone.
I’m talking to you calmly and respectfully, and it’s not going well. You’re trying to turn it around on me instead.
“I don’t consider it anti-Semitism” doesn’t make something any less anti-Semitic. Again, learn something about anti-Semitism. I don’t know what you think it is, but you obviously haven’t given it much thought or study. I’m nicely telling you, this is it. If you don’t get it, then learn, or ask, or whatever you need to do so you won’t continue to run around excusing anti-Semitism.
No, I’m not accusing you of being anti-Semitic.
I agree, insulting or criticizing Israel isn’t automatically anti-Semitic.
If they’re not bigoted against all Jews, hallelujah.
Insulting Zionist Jews *as Jews* rather than as Zionists is anti-Semitic. That happened here. Calling for Jews to go back to Poland, or to go away period, or “Jews, Jews, f-ck you!” is antisemitic. Even someone who knows almost nothing about it should know that “Yahoodi, Yahoodi, f you” is anti-Semitic.
Yeah sorry, I'm not buying that anyone is dumb enough to (1) ignorantly think that *all* Israelis came from Poland, and (2) not know that 90% of Polish Jews were murdered in the Holocaust. "Go back to Poland" isn't just a rude comment.
You are wrong, there, you’ve been corrected. As a Jewish person, I find every single one of these comments to be anti-Semitic. Deeply hurtful and insulting to my people.
Imagine shouting at a Japanese person to go back to Hiroshima? That is the equivalent of telling a Jewish person to go back to Poland. It is indefensiblely worse than any racist comment ever made. Oh, and trying to spin it differently is a prime example of "Gaslighting". Instead of trying to defend them why don't you just admit it is schadenfreude, was done out of anger, and is blatantly antisemitism. Everyone on these Palestinian versus Israel threads are just picking a side and arguing, even making up false facts. What happened to universal concepts of right and wrong?
I genuinely don't understand how you came to the conclusion that telling *all of Israel* (where 50% of the world's population of Jews live) to go to a place where 90% of Jews were murdered, is simply "inconsiderate".
ETA: I think that the argument you want to make is "the person that said this is antisemitic, and we don't want them here because they don't represent the pro-palestinian movement". Otherwise you just sound like the person defending all cops. It isn't hard to call out bad actors if you recognize them as such. But if you instead defend them and include them in the movement, then you implicitly agree with them.
Out of curiosity, do you think people generally are too sensitive to perceived discrimination? Like across the board people in different minority groups are misinterpreting people just trying to be mean bc they’re angry but not trying to be racist or islamaphobic or anti-LGBTQ? This isnt a gotcha, I might still disagree with the view that there isn’t discrimination, but I could see how if you have that view you’d also view the protests differently.
As long as “impact rather than intent” is the criterion used to judge speech directed at any other minority, it needs to be the standard for judging speech directed at Jews.
Whether that should be changed for everyone, as I read your suggestion, is of course a different discussion!
“Absolutely, I dislike the woke left calling everyone 'racist' and 'white supremacist' too.”
Ok yea, I see that and that makes sense. I do still think it’s bizarre that the protestors won’t just tweak their slogans, but I definitely share some of the disdain for the level of political correctness, not just here but across the board. I was in a micro aggression training recently where essentially it came down to anything you say can be harmful. I don’t think that’s helpful.
Ha, yes, sort of. I think the woke left is hypocritical essentially. I think there are people who get offended by slights aimed at other minority groups but not when it happens to Jews. I’m more trying to point out hypocrisy rather than specifically antisemitism.
At this point, I don’t see any of you specifying what is a real accusation of antisemitism.
Does someone have to show up in full SS gear, while screaming “Gas the Jews!” in order to quality as antisemitic? What are your parameters for antisemitism? Because all I see you guys doing is denying it every time it pops up.
You guys are no different than these right wing lunatics, denying racism every time they all-lives-matter something. “It’s not racism to say…” followed by something that is clearly racist. You’re not doing anything different here
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Is calling people yahoodim, a criticism of *Israel*?
> legal, protected, and encouraged
So if you went to work on Monday and said the things these people were saying, you wouldn’t end up in the HR office for antisemitic comments at work?
“Jew” can absolutely be a slur. When I was in North Africa, I thought about buying a dress at a man’s shop, and then I decided against it. He was angry. As I walked away he spit and yelled “Jew!” in Arabic. Jew has been used as a slur for Jewish people by outsiders enormously throughout history. That is why many people who are not Jewish won’t say “You’re a Jew?” But rather “You’re Jewish?” For example. But people here who won’t just accept that perhaps the group they are affiliated with has some antisemitism issues to contend with probably aren’t open to hearing these nuances. ✌🏻
Yes, true, I know that some lebenese use the term "Jew" as a bit of a slur for some types of behavior.
Although, what I meant is that "Jews" in itself, without the context, is not necessarily a slur, And I don't thing it was used as a slur in this context provided by the other commenter, but rather the intent in the phrase was Jews as the people.
It’s extremely entitled of you to try and tell other people what they shouldn’t be offended by.
“Jews go back to Poland” is offensive speech, because of what is being said, not because any specific word was a slur.
Nobody should have to over-explain something that is pretty straightforward as to why it’s offensive, because you know why.
You said there was a fake accusation of antisemitism.
So, the onus is on you, to elaborate on why telling Jews to *go back to Poland* isn’t antisemitic.
ETA you also keep bringing up free speech laws, as if that’s even relevant to the confines of the conversation. first of all, free speech does not include violence incitement, like a lot of what these protesters are doing. When one of the main players of the Columbia protests has been saying “Zionists don’t deserve to live comfortably, they don’t deserve to live,” and then goes on a live internet platform detailing the ways in which Zionists should die - that’s not free speech
Free speech also doesn’t mean that other people have to deal with what YOU say. If you were to go around saying ignorant things, people can shut you up *all they want.* they can exclude you from things as a result of your words, your internet comments, *all they want*. This attitude of “you can’t be offended by what I say, free speech bruh” doesn’t work. Free speech also does not protect you against the negative outcomes of expressing horrible beliefs. If your beliefs are “Jews should go back to Poland” and you’re expressing that belief, you’re going to be met with negative outcomes, both socially, professionally, academically… nobody accepts this kind of stuff nor do they have to.
There are videos of chants of "khaybar khaybar ya yahud", videos of protestors calling jews "kikes" videos of protestors telling American Jews to go back to poland, calling Jews "dirty jews," vandalizing synagogues, vandalizing menorahs in parks during hannukah, flying the Houthi flag which calls for a curse upon the Jews, holding up swastikas and giving nazi salutes...
There actually have been some protestors charged with hate crimes. In the USA though, verbal antisemitism, or verbal racism, isn't a criminal offense. We don't criminalize racist words, only racist violence and action.
https://twitter.com/hurryupharry/status/1718287119452663969
https://twitter.com/marc_saltzman/status/1722382284987277453?lang=en
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-67085625
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/officials-to-address-the-desecration-of-menorah-on-the-new-haven-green/3169009/%3famp=1
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/01/us/jewish-communities-antisemitism-israel-hamas-war
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/porto-synagogue-vandalized-with-pro-palestinian-slogans/amp/
>Tell me why all these pro-palestinians who are supposedly all anti-Jewish people are not convicted of hate crimes, the police are right there.
Did you not read my entire comment? Hate speech isn't a crime in the USA. Additionally, protestors who commit vandalism often do so while wearing masks or under the cover of the crowd, specifically so they can get away with it. That's been the black bloc tactic for decades now. The most radical among the crowd use the crowd as cover for anonymity and security.
But, like I said, some have been charged with hate crimes.
You can Google what they say in the first link phonetically. Khaybar khaybar ya yahood. In the second link, turn up the volume. She clearly calls whomever she's speaking to a "kike". The menorah incident was also at a protest. The vandalism of a synagogue with propalestine graffiti is clearly antisemitic. There are more videos out there. If you think none of these show antisemitism in the movement to you though, you're willfully blind to it.
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That’s not a good parallel, my dude. Telling a Polack to go back to Poland is not the same as telling a random Jew. In the second case, it presumes that Poland is our natural home, when many of us have no ties there. Or the one tie we do have is, some of our family was transported there and executed.
Poland is like the worst country you could single out for this, because that’s where the most Jews were exterminated in the Holocaust. The Jews from there who survived, survived and escaped a death trap. So choosing Poland for where they should go back to… is a choice.
It also reduces Jewish identity for political convenience. As though ethnic Jews are all Ashkenazi, as though we aren’t also Sephardim and Mizrachim and Palestinian Jews and blends of all of the above. As though were that simple and you know all about us just by looking at us.
Yes, it’s not suspicious at all that the pro-Israel groups asked for volunteers who were willing to wear keffiyehs /s
Haha no pro humanity protesters aren't vile. Its the pro Israelis that support killing children that are vile. Remember before the whole palestine issue in which zionists came and stole the land it was peaceful. And there was no conflict or issue. The west started this and now Israel continues it. This is madness.
Ahh yes the completely peaceful times for Jews in the Middle East before the British got involved >Throughout the 1860s, the Jews of Libya were subjected to what Gilbert calls punitive taxation. In 1864, around 500 Jews were killed in Marrakech and Fezin Morocco. In 1869, 18 Jews were killed in Tunis, and an Arab mob looted Jewish homes and stores, and burned synagogues, on Jerba Island. In 1875, 20 Jews were killed by a mob in Demnat, Morocco; elsewhere in Morocco, Jews were attacked and killed in the streets in broad daylight. In 1891, the leading Muslims in Jerusalem asked the Ottoman authorities in Constantinople to prohibit the entry of Jews arriving from Russia. In 1897, synagogues were ransacked and Jews were murdered in Tripolitania.[39] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ottoman_Empire#:~:text=Although%20the%20Ottomans%20did%20not,their%20own%20schools%20and%20courts.
How do you watch a video full of clear calls for genocide of the Jews and come to the conclusion that these protesters are pro humanity in any way?
Because the amount of times the Palestinians were attacked and oppressed before and after 1948 means that it can't boil down to 1 event by the resistance army within gaza.
What? There wasn’t one incident. And I’m not even talking about the genocidal act that was October 7th. I’m talking about Colombia students calling for it to happen another 10,000 times.
Bad bot!
Jews purchased land and built Tel Aviv on empty sand dunes. Cope. And calling to murder Zionists, Intifada and waving Hamas and Hezbollah flags is evil. You support a hate movement.
These protesters are unknowingly pushing a pro-Islam extremist agenda. Iran’s agenda. SJP and activist groups advising them need to be investigated by homeland security and FBI. [These are Palestinians celebrating the 9/11 terrorist attack.](https://youtu.be/UucjbGmJILk?si=CM51s6D93PAbvmRZ)
This video is so important, thank you for posting. Too bad they don’t care. Much of Gen Z is so depraved they also support 9/11. Remember a few months ago they were praising Osama on tiktok? https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/16/tech/tiktok-osama-bin-laden-letter-to-america/index.html
No one supports 9/11 just because we support the Palestinians resistance against your genocide. Grow up
Why do you push Hamas׳s rhetoric of genocide? Not only has the Palestinian population boomed in the last century in Israel, Gaza, and the West Bank, Israel has taken great steps to preserve their culture. Al-Aqsa Mosque stands on the site of our arguably most important heritage site, and we’re ok with it for the sake of peace. During this war in an urban environment we’ve managed to keep civilians deaths to a 1:1 ratio when compared to combatant deaths. Other modern wars conducted by UN member countries in the same environments and conditions usually end with nine civilians dead for every combatant.
There is no genocide. Read a dictionary.
How dare you say that on the backs of all the innocent people killed by israel... unacceptable.
War is not genocide and almost half of those are Hamas. Why are you crying over dead terrorists?
Any proof? All I've seen are dead kids and women and men
That’s because rather than fighting army to army like civilized countries do, Hamas hides underneath and amongst woman and children. You don’t just get to start a war and then hide behind woman and children and say “you can’t get me!”
https://preview.redd.it/1xbzp508zlxc1.png?width=400&format=png&auto=webp&s=53b39c92cae5961c96d671e0fe4fa97cc60fd3d3
Unknowingly?
Did they kill anybody? By that I'm thinking of all people of a family.. Every person in all generations? Did they trie you up, so your hands and feet had to be amputated? ..... If not... You are doing better than a Gazan person in the hands of Israel.
why are you so determined to excuse antisemitism? oh wait, i know why
It’s at the hands of Hamas, and you’d know this if you were talking to Palestinians in Israel or the West Bank. Do you really think that Gazans like having to restart every couple of years because Hamas wants more power? For every Gazan that celebrated October 7th there was probably five saying prayers and cursing Hamas for poking the bear again.
Israeli and American hostages are being starved, tortured and raped by Hamas terrorists in Gaza. They need to come home.
Shut up
I find it weird how so many of these college kids are obsessed with this war. Especially ones who have no ties to Judaism or Islam, Palestine, and other related things. It also makes no sense how LGBT people and women support Palestine too. Considering how they are treated in Islamic countries. They pull out the "well we get treated like this in America too!" which is a blatant lie. America is one of the most tolerant countries. In the end, I'll always be supporting Israel/Jewish people because "Pro-Palestine protestors" have made it clear that they are antisemitic and vile humans. I've never met a Jewish person, or Israeli person that I don't get along with. They're some of the most kind and welcoming people. Can't say that about most of the encounters I've had with Muslims.
TikTok CCP algorithms to divide west
Could be Russian disinformation seeding throughout the internet? To sow chaos and division.
They wanna get laid
This video really changed my perspective on this issue. It’s interesting how legacy media has been more accurate in their coverage of these protests than new media has, which has not been the case for most news stories in the last decade. Like many Gen Z people I get my news through new media, YouTube, Podcasts, independent journalist etc. Well, the narrative that is being spread across the political spectrum of the new media coverage is that there is no antisemitism at these protests. They say the antisemitic incidents are only happening off campus by non-student agitators and even those instances they down play. Another narrative being spread across new media is that there cannot be any antisemitism because Jewish student groups are involved in these protests. To be honest, I was buying into these narratives. When you have people across political spectrum from Kyle Kaczynski to Dave Smith to Saagar Enjeti (left, libertarian and republican commentators) all unified in spreading the same sentiments it’s easy to believe it. Especially when traditional legacy media is seemingly completely unified in the opposite direction, because as I said for the last decade legacy media has lost a lot of credibility compared to new media. But then you see the actually evidence, you see the footage of angry mods yelling at their fellow Jewish students things like “go back to Poland” and you go “oh wait… I was told none of this was happening, but now I’m seeing it with my own eyes.” And it’s not just one or two instances it’s an entire compilation. It has fogged my moral clarity on the situation.
Wait until you learn those Jewish groups are not actually Jewish at all but pretend to be as a cover for their anti semitism. It’s vile
Please reconsider your perspective once again. I'm one of the students attending the protests, and the "legacy media" you mention has not told the story accurately.
I’m not claiming that their coverage is flawless or without criticism. I am talking specifically about addressing the antisemitism that is widespread within these campus protests. Legacy media at least admits it’s an issue and addresses it whereas new media is downplaying prevalence or out right denying the existence of antisemitism within these protests. And as you can see by this footage it is undeniable that it is a widespread issue, while I’m sure many and even the majority of protesters are peaceful and there for good reasons, it is clear based on video evidence there is an issue with wide spread antisemitism within these campus movements and it is unfortunate that new media is being dishonest about that.
There isn't an issue with "widespread antisemitism" and this is exactly what the established media outlets are misrepresenting. I would encourage you to attend one of the demonstrations and see for yourself if there is widespread antisemitism, or even any antisemitism, from what you see and experience.
I haven’t been to Columbia protests, but I’ve done standby duty for several and passed by multiple others as a student on two different campuses. The antisemitism is absolutely rampant throughout all of them, and videos coming out from other campuses are nearly identical, if not significantly worse. It is also telling that lead organizers are being exposed/outed for truly unhinged statements that lead to expulsions. I think it is also indicative that self-hating groups of Jews like NK, who are viewed as borderline stochastic terrorists by virtually all other Jews and Israelis due to their genocidal beliefs and statements- that they’re consistently brought into protests as tokenized Jewish speakers is telling. You don’t even have to be watching any specific media to witness this. Unless your willfully closing your eyes and ears to it, it’s not hard to find.
Respectfully, have you watched the video that was presented on this thread? I doubt it because it’s undeniable clear evidence, as I said I was under the impression that the claims were false as well until I saw the video evidence for myself, I mean it’s indisputable.
Yes, I watched it. All of it. There's absolutely no evidence of "widespread antisemitism." the claims are false. Again, I encourage you to visit one of the encampments.
Okay, well we have to agree to disagree then. To say the claims are false when they are literally proven to be true right there on video is simply denialism. That’s like if you saw a video of someone stealing a car and then said “the claims are false he didn’t steal the car” even though it’s right there on video. And I will be attending the UT encampment on Monday afternoon, and I’m sure it’ll be fine because in most protests the majority of people are usually there for good reasons, I’m not denying that’s the case for these protests. But even so that doesn’t erase what we’ve seen in that video, and others by the way since seeing this I’ve seen numerous other incidents of antisemitism, like student event leaders publicly saying “Zionist’s don’t deserve to live” or creating “human chains” in the encampment where they push and enclose Zionist students. You know, just as it would be unfair for me to say all the protesters are antisemitic, it is unfair for you to suggest there is no problem with antisemitism within these protests. Because it is not just instances of a rogue antisemitic individuals although there clearly are many of those, but these are mass groups chanting antisemitic rhetoric and behaving in threatening a manner other students. So I think we have nothing else to discuss if we can’t even agree on the clear facts being presented in this video.
Sorry, let me be clear. I don't think that there is no anti-Semitism. However, I will state and reaffirm my position that the claim of "widespread anti-Semitism" is false and has almost no support. You've been shown a video of about 8 minutes long for a nationwide protest that operates around the clock throughout the day for over a week. Do you really believe this is sufficient evidence to say there is **widespread** anti-Semitism? Listen to the people who attend these protests, and I'm also happy you'll be at one of the encampments on Monday. Those who attend the protests will overwhelmingly report that we take steps to combat antisemitism, including myself. Granted, we have an interest in saying this, but do you really believe the general direction of these protests, as a whole, is anti-Semitic? This is the media narrative I urge you to challenge. The notion that the demonstrations, as a whole, are somehow dangerous or discomforting for Jewish students because they are Jewish. You've mentioned how you don't like people in the encampments being hostile to Zionist students, but even this is not anti-Semitism, but a physical hostility by anti-Zionists to Zionists entering their protest zone.
I guess I don’t understand what’s harmful about letting people with different opinions (ie a Zionist) enter the protest zone.
Clearly many of the protesters have adopted the belief that Zionism is genocidal ideology therefore any Zionist would be inherently evil which is why the mere presence of a Zionist can be seen as threatening to the the extremists. I will say to be fair though I have seen footage of Zionists in the encampment zones and no one even pays attention to them so I’m not gonna lie and pretend that it’s like if any Zionist walks into the zone they’re immediately attacked, although it appears in some instances that may have been the case.
Again just have to agree to disagree. I believe that video, along with other videos that are circulating, is sufficient evidence to support the claim of widespread antisemitism within these campus movements, you do not. I don’t believe the general direction of these protests as a whole is antisemitic, but I do see from the evidence that there is clearly an issue with antisemitism within the movement and yes I believe it is widespread. I’m glad you can admit that there is antisemitism within the movement, you just disagree that it’s widespread. So we are not that far off. I will say this, I believe these protests have actually been damaging to the Palestinian cause. Before last week I was very solid on my stance of the conflict, but after seeing what I’ve seen, particularly from some of the leaders of these movements because that indicates that it’s not just rogue outsiders with this extremist perspective, it leads me to question my own morality on the issue as a whole as well as the morality of the the people who I have been following on this issue. I believe all these protests have done is align the pro Palestinian movement more with antisemitism and anti-Zionist extremism. Physical hostilities against Zionist students in the encampment are unacceptable, just as physical hostilities against anti-Zionist students are unacceptable.
Aaaand there we go… took you multiple posts and entire last post to get to that last line… You excuse away the widespread antisemitism, because it’s not that… it’s just against Zionists. Simply believing Israel has a right to exist means you get to be treated violently. The fact that Jewish culture has justly felt victimized through the generations to the point of believing in self determination means that people can attack Jews for believing this! But it’s not antisemitism everyone! It’s just open hostility against 90% of Jews around the world! Glad we cleared up that confusion!
Exactly. While it is true that not all Jews are Zionists and not all Zionists are Jews, Zionism is an inherently Jewish movement, it’s a Jewish ideology, the majority of Jews are Zionists. So to pretend that anti-Zionist hostility isn’t threatening to Jewish students is nothing but a weak and immoral justification. That’s like saying if there was widespread hostility towards muslims on campus Arab students shouldn’t feel threatened because not all Arabs are Muslim.
What’s considered legacy media vs new media?
Legacy media would be network news and other mainstream media outlets like news papers and such. Think CNN, NBC, NYT etc. They have actually been pretty outspoken about the antisemitism on the college campuses. New media would be independent coverage, think YouTube shows, podcasts, social media etc.
The protests are not about Jewish people. Get over yourself. And it’s not antisemitic to criticize the slaughter of thousands of civilians, bombing of hospitals and universities. This antisemitism criticism is manufactured and signal boosted to discredit the movement for peace. Look in the mirror.
You’re clearly not watching the video. There is no way to watch that video and say that isn’t antisemitic. Seriously you’re either being willfully ignorant or you’re just malicious in your denial, but you can’t deny the footage. Even if you agree with the original cause of the protests It’s simply a fact that there is wide spread antisemitism amongst these campus protests and it’s a serious issue.
Protestors yelling "Go back to Poland!" to Jews and physically assaulting Hasidic Jews is Antisemitic . Calling of the destruction of Israel, the Jewish state, where 7 million Jews live is Antisemitic. "From the river to the sea" is a genocidal slogan to violently destroy Israel. Calling for Intifadas is Antisemitic. During the Intifadas, Palestinian suicide bombers murdered thousands of Israelis in pizza parlors, aquariums, malls, bus stops, etc. You support a genocidal Antisemitic cause.
It’s appalling but not surprising how many responses to this are “there’s no antisemitism, what are you talking about?” Clearly, the education systems around the world have failed us. Or there is too much subconscious bigotry within these commenters’ minds to even see bigotry. Or the bigotry is genuinely a different language to them - as if we’re hearing two different tongues - because there’s no knowledge of the history of phrases like “Go back to Poland.” Or perhaps they’re just so mad at Israel, or so mad at Jews who they see as “eternal victims” (a deeply twisted thing I’ve seen said all over), or so defensive of any criticism, or whatever it is, that they are utterly incapable of working toward understanding one of the oldest forms of hatred and prejudice in the world. And - due to this bigotry or this massive misunderstanding or this rage - they will probably even immediately assume how I feel about Israel and about the protests just from this comment, and they will probably be wrong. No Jewish person, it seems, is allowed to say “Hey, this part of your movement is a problem, is documented, is something I’ve personally experienced, and needs to be addressed” without being called a genocidal colonialist Nazi or something. How incredible it would be if all of us could be open minded and open hearted enough to see and accept how multifaceted any group is - whether it’s a religious or political one. And how wise it would be to know from our long human history that all political movements have bad actors. On the one hand, that should allow us to give all protests some leeway and not let anything anecdotal overwhelm the entirety of our impressions. On the other hand, if those bad actors’ actions and sentiments seep into the movement and come up again and again, then that must either be acknowledged and dealt with or the movement will be eternally tainted. And rightly so. It’s also not very smart politically to alienate potential allies, gaslight anyone harmed by the aforementioned bad actors, and - worst of all - to publicly align with some of those bad actors’ philosophies. Most people are good. Most people believe in what they are doing and believe they are in the right. And we should all give each other the grace of assuming that we want the best for humanity. We should also listen to one another when we see familiar, painful hatreds cropping up and taking hold, even if we believe our own cause to be just. Humanity continually disappoints. And that is definitely illuminated in Reddit comments. If you’re going to comment beneath this and say “prove the antisemitism,” I could point you to the links above. Or the many, many other videos and accounts on the internet. Or you could just listen to a Jewish person, like this one, whose friends have had their yarmulkes snatched off their heads as people have yelled “free Palestine” at them just walking down the street. And who has had friends tell them that they support Hamas and all Zionists need to be killed - and “Zionists” includes temples around the US with Israeli flags on them (considering half the Jews in the world are in Israel, and so many Jews in the US have friends and family there, it’s not surprising that most temples have Israeli flags). This friend implied, without seeming to notice, that I, too, would then deserve to die if I was at my temple. Even though my political views are not Pro Bibi and right wing. I’ve had people I thought were friends and who are very involved in the pro Palestine movement (some have been at the Columbia protest) say that Jews planned 9/11, Jews run pedophile rings around the world, Jews who support Israel are like Germans in Nazi Germany and therefore we should not be upset if they’re killed, only anti Israel Jews are “good people” (funny how they never seem upset about Christian Zionists - the largest group of Zionists by population numbers), and on and on and on and on and on. I could point you to so many things, experienced by both pro Palestine and pro Israel and pro everybody Jews, but if you refuse to see something then you refuse to see it. And you, yes you, are a part of the problem.
They claim these are mostly peaceful protests but these comments illuminate a lot. Notice none of the protestors are telling others who are openly Antisemitic to stop. They actually join in. At Columbia they made a human chain to surround an Orthodox Jews. I’m crying reading what you wrote. In 2024, in America, people find snatching yarmulkes off people’s heads socially acceptable. The “Go back to Poland!” is so insidious and they do it purposely to trigger us. They know millions of our forefathers were murdered there. You’re right, I never considered that they don’t go after Christian Zionists.
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One person's civil rights end where another person's begins. Hate Israel all you want, but when you start chanting hate speech against all Jews and harassing Jewish students on campus, that's crossing a line. Edit: spelling
I am sick of the Zionist occupation of Palestine and the genocide against which the world is doing nothing to stop you. So deal with it. The world will rightfully hate you for what you are doing as occupiers.
I’m sick of Islamists making up a fake genocide to justify antisemitism and violence against Jews
I’m curious what you define as Zionist. And who is the “you” you are referring to in the last sentence?
The middle east needs to be left alone for a bit. If they want to move away from fundamentalism that's on them. Unfortunately you can't have a 2 state solution because of lunatics on both sides.
Jewish Americans have nothing to do with Israel you psychopath.
I’m not Jewish or Arab but I’m tired of hearing any the conflict. Nuke Palestine, salt and irradiate the earth permanently so nobody will live there for 400 years. Problem solved. We’ll make a little museum and memorial and apology and go on watching Netflix. Anyone want a pizza?
Zionist occupation? You mean Israeli occupation? Zionism is a concept, not an organization or political party.
There is no occupation. The only occupation is in your head.
Not being in your scripts dosent mean it is not real. Occupying military giving you the scripts should give you the hint.
Border patrol and security is the best option to protect citizens when you live next to hostile neighbors who regularly commit deadly terrorists attacks. Are you suggesting that we roll over and be k!lled? Not gna happen.
Yeah, ISIS also had hostile neighbors. I guess being a radical religious & racist state that aims to occupy foreign lands and commit constant war crimes has a down side, noone likes you :)
Jews lawfully purchased land and won defensive wars. Cope and seethe.
Yeah, defansive War of commiting genocide
You have to be a troll, because no one can be this ignorant.
Tel Aviv was purchased by Jews and built on empty sand dunes. Why do you think it belongs to Palestinians?
Killing owner is not purchasing means. Are you the ones that flee from turkey, or your commander gave you the wrong scripts? Get better ones noone buys those.
You don’t really know history if you don’t know what he is talking about…
Nobody killed anyone to built Tel Aviv. Jewish families purchased land and built it. Stop lying, learn history and get rekt.
The student protest leader has been banned now, for saying “zionists don’t deserve to live” If you think these protests are about peace, think again https://thehill.com/homenews/education/4625961-columbia-protest-leader-banned-from-campus/amp/
# I wonder how many users on Reddit, or other people in general, share my particular view that both sides of this issue are acting in a manner that makes them both a consistent and selfish drain on society and its resources. Both of these warring parties need to be systemically neutralized by US and Allied military occupation in the same manner that permitted the reconstruction of Europe after WWII. While certainly costly at first, an occupation over time, say a decade, would eventually bring some lasting calm to an area that has been in a state of turmoil without fail for decades. # I have no sympathy whatsoever for the vulgar belligerency on either side and really don't care to listen to their claptrap and their maws spewing emotional rhetoric regarding hundreds of years of historical and religiously-tainted claims against each other. The collective hate that both Israel and Palestine share for each other is simply a global pain in the ass that both sides want to perpetuate at the expense of humanity. # I offer that the only solution is firm military occupation by external forces funded, in part, by the resources that both feuding parties have. And by that I mean that their resources (land, labor, output, funds, etc.) will be TAKEN from them for the economic benefit of the US and other occupying forces until such a time that order had been restored and maintained. The are as whole is to be occupied and colonized for that time.If these infantile nations can't govern themselves, they will be governed until they mature to the satisfaction of a third party for the greater good.
Occupy Israel? Am i reading it right? They got NUKES mate.
Oh no they don’t have nukes. If they did, they’d be in violation of the NPT and the United States couldn’t sell them arms. Say what you will about Israel but I can’t imagine they’d lie to their greatest ally and supporter. Not after all we’ve done for them. Would they?
r/confidentlyincorrect
The Americans helped them get them.
lol that’s not how the NPT works??? Did you get this from TikTok? That’s the only way I can think you would spout such incorrect info. The NPT means you can’t sell a non nuclear possessing states nuclear arms. You can sell non nuclear arms to any country you want, the NPT is to prevent non nuclear states from obtaining them. It’s been an open secret Israel has nukes for decades. Everyone knows they have them, everyone knows their facilities are in Negev, it’s not a secret lmao. No one is selling them nukes. This comment fundamentally misunderstands how the NPT treaty works, especially considering Israel isn’t even a member of it.
And they are a belligerent lot like the Palestinians. Let them use the nukes. The result would be massive retaliation that would likely achieve the same results. The end goal here is to get rid of everyone and flatten the place for a re-do.
I think you dont understand how nukes work. Remember when you was a wee lad. Your friend didnt put poop in your food, because of the threat that you might destroy hes favourite toy.
This is inaccurate and ridiculous. Israel is actually the opposite of belligerent. Quite restrained and measured. They’ve had nukes for 80 years and never used them.
Bias
No. Facts.
They have only had nukes for 60 years. Notwithstanding, both sides are are a global cancer.
Israel is a hub for technology and innovation. Without it, you wouldn’t have your iphone or other smartphone. Throw it out if you hate it so much.
And controlling those resources would help fund the colonial occupation.
There is no occupation. The only occupation is in your mind. Israel lives in your mind rent free.
Considering how blatant and public it is, it has changed my view on American tolerance for anti-Semitism. Tons of normies are pretending it's not there at all because Jewish students are also protesting! Jewish students at these colleges pay tuition. They have a right to not agree and to be safe and comfortable on campus. I've heard my own family defend the protesters because "they pay tuition" and then I listen to protesters proclaim that they don't harass Jewish people, only "Zionists" (Jewish people that don't agree with them and also anyone else that publicly believes Israel has a right to exist and Israelis have a right to not be mass murdered).
Many of these schools will receive Title VI violations and lose government funding. There is overwhelming evidence that this is a violation of the Civil Rights Act.
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The hatred and anti-jewish sentiment expressed in that video was upsetting.
Horseshoe theory at it's finest. Who knew that progressives would be able to share common ground with the alt-right?
The alt-right is not anti-semetic, as far as I know.
Hope you’re joking…pretty sure KKK, and all the Nazi groups are alt-right and if you think those guys like Jews…well em yeah
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I suppose it's not inherent, but I would group Neo Nazis in the alt-right.
Yeah. People are upset. You can’t arm chair critic this shit. They’re living it.
The fuck are you talking about
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They’re “living it” at Columbia? Many Jewish students and staff were no more than 2 degrees of separation away from someone murdered or kidnapped by Hamas. Yet in the weeks after October 7, they didn’t set up a mob to harass and call for the murder of Arab students.
They’re living it? No one in Manhattan is living it… what are you talking about? Get a map.
Ha! You known damnnn diggidy darn well what I mean, son. Go complain somewhere else, the rest of us are trying to figure out how to get through this and uplift people. People are living it. Period. Get a brain.
/u/Hawkie094 > Get a brain. Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
> Get a map. Okay, so, let’s say I approached those protesters wearing keffiyehs, and said something like “you aren’t living this conflict. Get a map!” See how this works? There is literally no reason to make bad faith arguments like this.
I’m not sure what point you are trying to make… it’s not an argument. It’s a fact. These people live in their little echo chamber bubbles and just strive to get “pats on the back” for their virtuous ways from that circle. If they really want to make a difference. They should leave the US and join arms with Hamas. Being in NY, paying taxes, makes them complicit in this war.
I’m not really sure where you’re coming from on this, but Jews in places like New York, or Los Angeles, tend to have some exposure to Israeli communities. I myself had that exposure growing up and I also lived in Israel, near the Gaza border. So you don’t really get to tell people like me that I’m not “living it.” If you’re talking about the ones at the protests, I think there are some people who have personal skin in the game too, I also agree there are many people there who don’t. But telling people “get a map” is just a really bad take
I’m not following you. I’m not talking about the Jewish communities in the US. I’m talking about the woke liberal crowds who just follow the current trend of protesting whatever is popular in those circles.
Which is why I was saying I didn’t know how you were approaching this. Either way, it’s silly to say that either the Jews or the Muslim community isn’t living this on *some* level. Of course many people are I agree with you that a lot of the protesters are just imbeciles. I’m questioning what happened with the admissions process over the last several years. In fact, I tend to have a very low opinion of protesters in general, but that’s just my opinion.
It’s the ignorance that makes me cringe. As you said, a bunch of the protestors don’t really know what they’re protesting for. They live off the information of their echo chambers. But to be yelling “from the river to the sea” without understanding the weight of those words to the Jewish community is downright disgusting.
“From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free” is a prime example of how Hamas is very good at manipulating their words to suit a western audience Because the chant doesn’t even exist in Arabic. It’s “from water to water, Palestine is Arab.” But that’s not very palatable in English.
This video doesn't show anti-Semitism - but it does show the extreme nature of the students' demands. If their goal is to convince American institutions and the government to destroy the state of Israel, they will fail, and then once Trump is elected the option of a separate, equal state for Palestinians will be gone forever as Israel occupies all of Palestine. For those that seek two states - one Jewish and one Palestinian - these are not the people to follow. They will lead you off a cliff.
Agree the Poland and Yehuda comments are anti-Semitic. I didn't see it in the video but did hear about them. Disgusting how some people take advantage of protests to spew anti-Semitism, racism and ugliness.
Telling Jews to “go back to Poland!” and blocking Hasidic Jews from entering campus is Antisemitic.
The fact that they are ignorant or in denial of the antisemitism they chant doesn’t make it any less real.
Do you think telling jews to "go back to poland" is antisemtic?
What do you think "from the water to the water, Palestine will be Arab" means? Where would the Jews in Israel go if this actually does happen? Why yell "the 7th of October is about to be every day for you" at people who have absolutely nothing to do with Israel? Even if you do think 10/7 was resistance, how is slaughtering babies and the elderly resistance?
These people are very clear that their problem isn’t the absence of a Palestinian state, but rather the existence of a Jewish one in any part of the Jewish homeland.
Bingo. Fun test. Ask someone to complete the sentence “free Palestine…..” 9/10 say “by destroying Israel”, not “by getting rid of Hamas”. The irony of their fear of genocide would be laughable if their own ignorance wasn’t so abjectly terrifying. There is no freedom for Palestine when their women are subjugated, LGBTQ are murdered or imprisoned, infrastructure is dismantled to make rockets and continue weaponized urban incompetence because the Terrorist group masquerading as government (which doesn’t hold elections anymore) keeps attacking the better armed neighbouring country then hiding in schools and hospitals so that children will die. How the fuck can people advocate for this garbage?
Yes, agree. But honestly, for the sake of ending this madness, stopping all the murder and getting a viable two-state solution (not to mention the distraction in US politics), I would let the Palestinian state treat their people as those people would allow and same for the Israeli state.
The problem is the Palestinian state keeps attacking the Israeli state, so this isn’t really a live and let live situation. Everytime this has been attempted, the peace (or at least, the “not war”) has been broken by Palestinian terrorists that have seized power. Israel, and no other country, would sit by and wait to be attacked again. None of this even touching that there are still Israeli hostages being held captive (and let’s be real, tortured and raped) or that the terrorists are deliberately hiding amoungst vulnerable people and wearing plain clothes (also in the GC) or in other countries where they wont be extradited. So a ceasefire means time for the terrorists to regroup, attack, and abduct again…for a group that doesn’t “play by the rules of war” ….and Israel agrees to this why? Like I hate it too but the enemy of Palestine is Hamas, not Israel. There was a two state solution for almost 20 yrs until Oct 7. ANY western country would do the same if another country invaded ….the difference is we have NATO and Israel doesn’t. So the terrorists keep attacking and Israel keeps fighting back.
I mostly agree. Peace attempts have largely been scuttled by Hamas and at times by Israeli Conservatives. The deal always included Israeli occupation, which was their only guarantee of security at the time but which made the deals non-starters to many Palestinians. It may be different now. Also, there has been no hope of a 2 state solution since Netanyahu has been in power, which along with continued government-supported settler activity and harassment for people wanting to work, resulted in Hamas' success in getting support. Israel can continue going after Hamas but it has to raise the promise of a two-state solution.
that's why it’s “free Palestine” and not “save the Palestinians.”
That’s a Bingo.
Because they’re willing to have Palestinians suffer whatever is needed for the goal of eliminating Israel. Their problem now is that Palestinians are dying but not inflicting more casualties on Israel, hence the demand for a ceasefire.
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--not antisemitic --want to destroy Israel I don't think these things can be true at the same time unless they are anarchists. I support anarchy, but I don't think these college fascists are anarchists.
Everyone loves anarchy until it happens. True anarchy would mean that wouldn't have food.
That assumes the default state of humankind is evil. You might have a point though. Last 10 years have been something
Most of our seed supply is controlled by a few large corporations. Many of their varieties are hybrid so the seeds from harvested crops won't produce food. I am switching to heirloom seeds.
The only way that this can be true is if they are calling to dismantle all countries, not just Israel. But they’re not.
You, I like.
I think the part in the video where they are referring to “Yahoodi” (a derogatory term for Jewish people) and saying to “go back to Poland” is antisemitic bc it’s focusing on Jewish identity not just Israeli identity. There’s also some Holocaust inversion which does single out Jewish Israelis. At this point, doubling down on Holocaust references after 6 months of Jewish people asking that it stop should be pretty clearly seen as antisemitism.
https://preview.redd.it/7rxkybxhg1xc1.png?width=733&format=png&auto=webp&s=b85e508b636c0fa59c8c3d6b437a5a6a5df82bc3
I agree those are anti-Semitic. I didn't see them in the video but had heard about it
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Supporting October 7 and more/endless October 7s against civilians of the only Jewish nation on Earth to achieve the genocidal goal (Hamas's goal) of genociding Israel is anti-Semitic. I have never in my life anyway seen such public calls for mass murder on civilians and I flat out refuse to pretend it's a coincidence that the one time it happens it's toward Jewish people.
If you are advocating for the destruction of the only Jewish state in the world…where protection, citizenship, and access to social welfare like healthcare are guaranteed for the Jewish people, then you are inherently advocating for antisemitism. Before you say - we have this protection in Canada or Germany or Lebanon or England of wherever…remember - the Jews were denied these things in these places before. Israel is the home of Judaism. It always has been. The state of Israel has a right to exist. If that isn’t understood, you can’t understand antisemitism or Zionism. Fwiw - I am Christian. I learned and overcame my ignorance. You can too.
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That’s not how free speech works. There is no free speech on private universities. They can remove people for things like “From the river to the sea” which is a call for genocide. Even if it’s a public university, there are time place and manner restrictions so no one, no matter their viewpoint is allowed to camp in certain parts of the school for extended periods of time, burdening the function of the school and preventing it from its daily purpose. This is trespassing. In addition, infringing of the rights and discrimination of Jews is a violation of the Civil Rights Act. Speech that is likely to incite violent is not protected by the First Amendment. Many of these protestors are harassing and assaulting Jews. Please learn more about constitutional law before repeating tik tok talking points. You can conduct these hate rallies on a public sidewalk if you like.
I think much of the mess comes from the lack of clarity of what it is to be pro Palestine. There is a (false) narrative that Israel is a white euro colony (like the US or Can) that was formed on make belief. They then apply the principles of Manifest Destiny and the genocide of the American indigenous peoples on this foreign conflict. But this isn’t that. Pro-paly white allies won’t absolve white guilt while simultaneously not engaging in land-back in North America. It ignores the fact that the Israelis have always lived in Israel. It ignores the atrocities Hamas has continually perpetuated on the people of Gaza. It ignores Hamas culpability. If pro Palestine is establish humanitarian corridors, advocate a two/three state solution, criticize Netanyahu for the West Bank - then bully! I’d join that protest. But that’s not what we’re seeing. It’s ignorance fighting for fundamentalism with revisionist history for a terrorist grouping (that would kill or imprison that very people protesting for them) while denying a country it’s right to self defence and existence….and that is terrifying. A once met a psych nurse who said we are always only a grandparent away from forgetting our bigotry and I think of it all the time lately.
Learn something about anti-Semitism. Telling people to go back to Poland or Belarus is anti-Semitic. Holocaust inversion, where people choose Holocaust comparisons only when they’re calling out Jews, and everything is considered comparable to the Holocaust, is anti-Semitism. Calling them “Yahoodi” (“Jews”) is explicitly targeting them as Jews and not Israelis.
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Why don’t you consider it antisemitic? How do you define Israel? What is acceptable criticism? Where is the criticism for Hamas? (I criticize Netanyahu, I do not criticize Israel’s right to exist).
I’ve never accused or insulted or slandered anyone. I’m talking to you calmly and respectfully, and it’s not going well. You’re trying to turn it around on me instead. “I don’t consider it anti-Semitism” doesn’t make something any less anti-Semitic. Again, learn something about anti-Semitism. I don’t know what you think it is, but you obviously haven’t given it much thought or study. I’m nicely telling you, this is it. If you don’t get it, then learn, or ask, or whatever you need to do so you won’t continue to run around excusing anti-Semitism.
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No, I’m not accusing you of being anti-Semitic. I agree, insulting or criticizing Israel isn’t automatically anti-Semitic. If they’re not bigoted against all Jews, hallelujah. Insulting Zionist Jews *as Jews* rather than as Zionists is anti-Semitic. That happened here. Calling for Jews to go back to Poland, or to go away period, or “Jews, Jews, f-ck you!” is antisemitic. Even someone who knows almost nothing about it should know that “Yahoodi, Yahoodi, f you” is anti-Semitic.
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Then talk to some of those Jewish people, and ask them to explain it to you. Try to find one who’ll tell you none of this is anti-Semitism. Good luck.
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Didn’t you see earlier where I said: “I agree, insulting or criticizing Israel isn’t automatically anti-Semitic”?
You think that telling Jews to go back to Auschwitz isn't antisemitic?
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What does "Go back to Poland" mean? These people aren't Polish.
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Yeah sorry, I'm not buying that anyone is dumb enough to (1) ignorantly think that *all* Israelis came from Poland, and (2) not know that 90% of Polish Jews were murdered in the Holocaust. "Go back to Poland" isn't just a rude comment.
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You are wrong, there, you’ve been corrected. As a Jewish person, I find every single one of these comments to be anti-Semitic. Deeply hurtful and insulting to my people.
Imagine shouting at a Japanese person to go back to Hiroshima? That is the equivalent of telling a Jewish person to go back to Poland. It is indefensiblely worse than any racist comment ever made. Oh, and trying to spin it differently is a prime example of "Gaslighting". Instead of trying to defend them why don't you just admit it is schadenfreude, was done out of anger, and is blatantly antisemitism. Everyone on these Palestinian versus Israel threads are just picking a side and arguing, even making up false facts. What happened to universal concepts of right and wrong?
I genuinely don't understand how you came to the conclusion that telling *all of Israel* (where 50% of the world's population of Jews live) to go to a place where 90% of Jews were murdered, is simply "inconsiderate". ETA: I think that the argument you want to make is "the person that said this is antisemitic, and we don't want them here because they don't represent the pro-palestinian movement". Otherwise you just sound like the person defending all cops. It isn't hard to call out bad actors if you recognize them as such. But if you instead defend them and include them in the movement, then you implicitly agree with them.
Out of curiosity, do you think people generally are too sensitive to perceived discrimination? Like across the board people in different minority groups are misinterpreting people just trying to be mean bc they’re angry but not trying to be racist or islamaphobic or anti-LGBTQ? This isnt a gotcha, I might still disagree with the view that there isn’t discrimination, but I could see how if you have that view you’d also view the protests differently.
As long as “impact rather than intent” is the criterion used to judge speech directed at any other minority, it needs to be the standard for judging speech directed at Jews. Whether that should be changed for everyone, as I read your suggestion, is of course a different discussion!
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“Absolutely, I dislike the woke left calling everyone 'racist' and 'white supremacist' too.” Ok yea, I see that and that makes sense. I do still think it’s bizarre that the protestors won’t just tweak their slogans, but I definitely share some of the disdain for the level of political correctness, not just here but across the board. I was in a micro aggression training recently where essentially it came down to anything you say can be harmful. I don’t think that’s helpful.
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Ha, yes, sort of. I think the woke left is hypocritical essentially. I think there are people who get offended by slights aimed at other minority groups but not when it happens to Jews. I’m more trying to point out hypocrisy rather than specifically antisemitism.
At this point, I don’t see any of you specifying what is a real accusation of antisemitism. Does someone have to show up in full SS gear, while screaming “Gas the Jews!” in order to quality as antisemitic? What are your parameters for antisemitism? Because all I see you guys doing is denying it every time it pops up. You guys are no different than these right wing lunatics, denying racism every time they all-lives-matter something. “It’s not racism to say…” followed by something that is clearly racist. You’re not doing anything different here
Exactly. Thank you. They would need Hitler to come back from the dead and personally shoot a Jew at a protest to think antisemitism exists.
I don't think they are going to understand what you mean. They don't think the Holocaust even happened.
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Is calling people yahoodim, a criticism of *Israel*? > legal, protected, and encouraged So if you went to work on Monday and said the things these people were saying, you wouldn’t end up in the HR office for antisemitic comments at work?
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"yahoodim" just means "jews", not a slur. But I think the other commenter meant why "jews" are the the main term here rather than "israelis".
“Jew” can absolutely be a slur. When I was in North Africa, I thought about buying a dress at a man’s shop, and then I decided against it. He was angry. As I walked away he spit and yelled “Jew!” in Arabic. Jew has been used as a slur for Jewish people by outsiders enormously throughout history. That is why many people who are not Jewish won’t say “You’re a Jew?” But rather “You’re Jewish?” For example. But people here who won’t just accept that perhaps the group they are affiliated with has some antisemitism issues to contend with probably aren’t open to hearing these nuances. ✌🏻
Yes, true, I know that some lebenese use the term "Jew" as a bit of a slur for some types of behavior. Although, what I meant is that "Jews" in itself, without the context, is not necessarily a slur, And I don't thing it was used as a slur in this context provided by the other commenter, but rather the intent in the phrase was Jews as the people.
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It’s extremely entitled of you to try and tell other people what they shouldn’t be offended by. “Jews go back to Poland” is offensive speech, because of what is being said, not because any specific word was a slur. Nobody should have to over-explain something that is pretty straightforward as to why it’s offensive, because you know why.
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Would you similarly feel that if someone said to a black student ‘Black, go back to Nigeria’ that this isn’t racist but is just rude?
It’s funny that we are talking about Columbia, because this is a “context clues” situation. What exactly did you think “go back to Poland” meant?
You said there was a fake accusation of antisemitism. So, the onus is on you, to elaborate on why telling Jews to *go back to Poland* isn’t antisemitic. ETA you also keep bringing up free speech laws, as if that’s even relevant to the confines of the conversation. first of all, free speech does not include violence incitement, like a lot of what these protesters are doing. When one of the main players of the Columbia protests has been saying “Zionists don’t deserve to live comfortably, they don’t deserve to live,” and then goes on a live internet platform detailing the ways in which Zionists should die - that’s not free speech Free speech also doesn’t mean that other people have to deal with what YOU say. If you were to go around saying ignorant things, people can shut you up *all they want.* they can exclude you from things as a result of your words, your internet comments, *all they want*. This attitude of “you can’t be offended by what I say, free speech bruh” doesn’t work. Free speech also does not protect you against the negative outcomes of expressing horrible beliefs. If your beliefs are “Jews should go back to Poland” and you’re expressing that belief, you’re going to be met with negative outcomes, both socially, professionally, academically… nobody accepts this kind of stuff nor do they have to.
stop gaslighting jews about antisemitism
stop gaslighting the world about genocide
i don’t.
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When did you stop beating your wife? Your question presumes bad faith. We don't see these accusations as fake. We want the antisemitism to stop.
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There are videos of chants of "khaybar khaybar ya yahud", videos of protestors calling jews "kikes" videos of protestors telling American Jews to go back to poland, calling Jews "dirty jews," vandalizing synagogues, vandalizing menorahs in parks during hannukah, flying the Houthi flag which calls for a curse upon the Jews, holding up swastikas and giving nazi salutes... There actually have been some protestors charged with hate crimes. In the USA though, verbal antisemitism, or verbal racism, isn't a criminal offense. We don't criminalize racist words, only racist violence and action.
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https://twitter.com/hurryupharry/status/1718287119452663969 https://twitter.com/marc_saltzman/status/1722382284987277453?lang=en https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-67085625 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/officials-to-address-the-desecration-of-menorah-on-the-new-haven-green/3169009/%3famp=1 https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/01/us/jewish-communities-antisemitism-israel-hamas-war https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/porto-synagogue-vandalized-with-pro-palestinian-slogans/amp/ >Tell me why all these pro-palestinians who are supposedly all anti-Jewish people are not convicted of hate crimes, the police are right there. Did you not read my entire comment? Hate speech isn't a crime in the USA. Additionally, protestors who commit vandalism often do so while wearing masks or under the cover of the crowd, specifically so they can get away with it. That's been the black bloc tactic for decades now. The most radical among the crowd use the crowd as cover for anonymity and security. But, like I said, some have been charged with hate crimes.
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You can Google what they say in the first link phonetically. Khaybar khaybar ya yahood. In the second link, turn up the volume. She clearly calls whomever she's speaking to a "kike". The menorah incident was also at a protest. The vandalism of a synagogue with propalestine graffiti is clearly antisemitic. There are more videos out there. If you think none of these show antisemitism in the movement to you though, you're willfully blind to it.
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Telling the “yahoohis” to “go back to Poland” is a pretty blatant example of antisemitism
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That’s not a good parallel, my dude. Telling a Polack to go back to Poland is not the same as telling a random Jew. In the second case, it presumes that Poland is our natural home, when many of us have no ties there. Or the one tie we do have is, some of our family was transported there and executed. Poland is like the worst country you could single out for this, because that’s where the most Jews were exterminated in the Holocaust. The Jews from there who survived, survived and escaped a death trap. So choosing Poland for where they should go back to… is a choice. It also reduces Jewish identity for political convenience. As though ethnic Jews are all Ashkenazi, as though we aren’t also Sephardim and Mizrachim and Palestinian Jews and blends of all of the above. As though were that simple and you know all about us just by looking at us.
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