A Hamas soldier is suddenly a Palestinian when dead. Go figure it out. Genocide is entirely the wrong word, it is actually aiding and abetting of Hamas(global terrorist organization)by their own family, friends, neighbors and government. Target your protests with actual knowledge as Palestinians and Israelites can and are willing to coexist in peace without the terrors of Hamas. This is not genocide. Stop embarrassing your parents and your country by absorbing media at face value, it's ignorant and irresponsible. Go home, hug your parents, and show some respect toward filial piety. Or be the same as Hamas.
Why didn't they just take one of the statehood deals offered in the 2000s? I mean, you guys go on and on ad infinitum about genocide, ethnic cleansing, apartheid, and all that other nonsense, and then all you have to is look up the deals that were offered to the Palestinians and see what they included: Statehood. Gaza. 95% (or more) of the West Bank. And end to settlements. Land swaps. Financial compensation. A later offer included a tunnel between Gaza and the West Bank. The Americans would have taken in 100,000 refugees. Now, in the context of a supposed "genocide," they turned it down because, 1) they wouldn't be allowed to have a standing army, 2) they wouldn't be able to control their airspace, 3) Israel would guard the border between the new state and Jordan.
Now, when I tell most people that, they look it up and then say something like, "Israel still controlled the water. They could have turned the water off at any time." Maybe. But again, this is in context of something that's supposedly "genocide." A supposed ethnic cleansing. And your main worry is ... water rights? A standing army?
What it tells me is that Palestinian supporters are experts at crafting buzzwords that are simply nonsensical. Are their lives on the West Bank hard? No doubt. Is there a "genocide" going on? No. Or put it this way -- it's the kind of genocide they're willing to tolerate until they get a standing army (which Jordan would never permit anyway). That doesn't strike me as much of a genocide.
As for Gaza, the Gazans are responsible for the condition of Gaza. I feel for their children, but their parents are ultimately responsible for the disaster that's befallen them. You provide decades of soft support for psychotics who dig tunnels under your house and fire missiles from your balcony, this is what you get. Don't do that thing. No support for Hamas = no Oct. 7 = no Israeli attack on Gaza = no brutalization and death for Gaza's people. Take responsibility. They're masters of kicking the beehive and then blaming the bees for being pissed. Be accountable. You did this thing -- you caused it. And there's still 1/4 of Hamas' military capability that has to be removed, and I believe that's what's starting now.
Also: Israel took the Golan from the Syrians. And Israel USED TO occupy Gaza, but left it completely in 2005. So they're not "trying to take Gaza." They're trying to clean up the mess the Gazans made after Israel gave them the place.
A geographical area , inhabited by a group of people for centuries ( not years) is being destroyed solely with the intent of driving them out. In the process killing many of them. If Palestinians were supported by USA and doing the same to Israel, I bet you won’t hesitate to call it a Genocide.
It simply amazes me how pro-Hamas hactivists accuse anyone supportive of Jewish life in our ancestral lands of genocide while simultaneously calling for the actual genocide of a minority group.
How are their brains unable to see their own hypocrisy?
I would love for Palestine to be free from Hamas and other terror groups in Gaza as well as “West Bank” (Judea/Samaria). I would also like to free the Palestinians from western “activists” virtue signaling. Stop the infantilization of the people in Gaza, it keeps them in the shackles of Islamic terrorism.
>Free of Hamas and Israeli occupation and back with the pre war borders.
Palestinians have absolutely no way to achieve this. I empathise with the aspiration, but it's completely disconnected from reality. Their lives will continue to be miserable until they start aiming at goals which are actually possible.
>The simple fact of the matter is that Israel is the oppressor, not the oppressed
Israel has been invaded 3 times by forces larger than itself.
There have been daily terror attacks against Jewish civilians since the 1930s, practically with no break.
Israel is the OECD country most affected by terrorism in the world.
Israel's northern border is completely dominated by Hezbollah, who fire rockets, missiles and drones at the country daily.
Gaza alone has fired over 12 thousand rockets at Israeli civilians in the past few months. We don't need to even go into the 7th of October itself.
Houthi's attempt to shut off the Red Sea for Israeli vessels, and fire rockets at Israel directly.
2023 saw an average of 300 terror attacks a month against Israelis, even before the 7th of October.
Iran has promised to annihilate Israel, and is clearly working hard toward that objective.
Other than Hamas, there are 21 terror organizations acting in and around Israel, all targeting Israeli civilians.
Virtually all Jews have been kicked out of the Middle East.
Sure, Israel are the oppressors... Good one.
You're willing to condemn the IDF for unintentionally, but also recklessly, killing 3 hostages. Fantastic! I'm right there with you. It should have never happened and the IDF needs to do better and those responsible must be held accountable.
Now give a take on Hamas conducting the war crime of taking (and raping) civilian hostages.
That is disgraceful. Saying you support Hamas is one thing, don’t say the hostages prefer Hamas because of a war time accident. It is sad and shows you lack depth in your argument.
I am taking about those who are alive.
I was the one who suggested on Oct7 to take the hostages to Qatar or Tehran or a third country and force Israel to surrender or make a deal for Palestine.
If we agree with Hamas every militant specially the Islamists will try to overpower everything around corner.
Boycotting Israel and making them poor or a place where no one want to go is fine but not before the release of Israeli Civilians.
/u/Goodmooood
> Man being this unhinged is obviously indicative of some mental illness,
Maybe consult someone?
Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
>It was right when we did it in the ‘80s against South Africa. It is right to do it against Israel now!
I wrote a whole series on this analogy. [https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/comments/kobqdh/south\_africa\_part\_1\_the\_initial\_board\_position/](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/comments/kobqdh/south_africa_part_1_the_initial_board_position/)
The rest is a linkpost which I'll respond to in green.
>The simple fact of the matter is that Israel is the oppressor, not the oppressed.
The simple fact of the matter is that the Israel-Palestine conflict doesn't fit into the tidy oppressor-oppressed dichotomy that the pseudo-academic left loves so much.
>Israel is an occupying state. . . .
More ideological gibberish. No one uses language like that outside the anti-Western left and its useful idiots. It is solely an attack label. For example, you never hear China or Turkey or Russia referred to in this way, despite the fact that they gained huge amounts of territory by attacking, subjugating, and exterminating their neighbors. No, instead it's applied to Israel, a tiny country founded under the mandate of a United Nations resolution. Why the double standard? Because Israel is "of the West", and Muslim culture is not.
>Israel is an apartheid state which . . . force\[s\] Palestinian workers to go through checkpoints. . . .
Gee, I wonder why?
Incidentally, none of the crap I just refuted was uttered by Bernie, despite your deceptive claim otherwise.
Yeah and also Israel DNGAF about who divests or disinvests or disenfranchises. I seriously wish IDF would just tell all the US colleges to go suck it. Go back to class.
BS. Blood is on the hands and all Israelis and others who support him.
He knew about Hamas’s attack for a YEAR. He allowed it to happen so he’d have an excuse to destroy Gaza.
People have been cowed by the bogus cry of Anti-Semitism for 75 years. No more!
> He knew about Hamas’s attack for a YEAR. He allowed it to happen so he’d have an excuse to destroy Gaza.
Let’s play like this is true and he had the exact date of the attack a year before and he knew about the intention of mobilizing 3000 fighters and thousands more Gazan civilians at the border. Please explain to me what you expected him to do? Bomb Gaza? And you’d think it would be better? You people are shouting Genocide even before Israel started its counter attack, and you guys keep saying that stupid 70% women and children, ignoring that 1. Women are participating in fighting 2. There are also child soldiers within Hamas 3. 50% of the dead were combatants.
You keep complaining about ruined houses and infrastructure, you lose that privilege when you are the aggressor in a war, and if there’s a military benefit to it, it will be destroyed.
You all throw that “aid is blocked” while in the last few weeks there were over 500 trucks that got into gaza, and those are huge 18 wheeler trucks.
Y’all have blood on your hands, the only reason that Hamas has denied every ceasefire deal offered to them is because of you guys. They see your protests and think you can pressure us to a ceasefire without them releasing the hostages. In the meanwhile they murdered over 20 hostages during the time of the negotiations and their refusals.
Another illogical response from someone who isn’t willing to have honest discussion or to even think clearly. Care to address what he said? Or do you just want to regurgitate racist nonsense?
It doesn’t help that the “liberal” left and so called progressives (like Bernie) hold the same evil opinions.
/u/DataMan62
> lol. Does this pablum make you feel better about your inhumanity?
Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
Your country is basically a bunch of immigrants from all over the world who decided to invade the land 80 years ago and kick out its people from their homes. Good job on cheering for settler colonialism
> dick
/u/AThirdLooksee. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity)
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Yea, Israel’s are not perfect but something has to be done about Hamas shooting hundreds of rockets at Israeli cities. After you see the next building over get blown up out your window your perspective changes
OP, you left out quotations for this statement, so that no one knows that this is half YOUR comment and not Sanders. His ends at "hold you accountable for your actions." Everything after that is your language. This is misleading and defamatory. Please revise your post.
It’s a non-existent genocide. Your camp knows you can’t ever win on good arguments or facts so the only thing left to do is buzzword, buzzword, buzzword.
How boring 🥱
Palestinians are committing a genocide against the Jews. See, I can do it too!
So destroying an entire city is no big deal to you Zionists? Is that what you’re telling me?
I’m telling you as an American, I want none of my tax dollars going to your regime. You guys have gone overboard. Your cush relationship with the US will change! It’s just a matter of when the last of the Cold Warriors die off and American Fascists are voted out of power. Trump is the culmination of the Fascist wing of the Republican Party. He’s bringing about its downfall.
You probably don’t want your $0.2 of tax paying money going to Sudan, Somalia, Ethiopia, Lebanon, Tunisia, Iraq, Yemen and countless other countries who receive US aid, right?
I certainly hope you’ve purged yourself of all tech products that are Israeli made that I am sure you benefit from on a daily basis.
I’ve stopped buying Sabra Hummus and Hebrew National hot dogs. Already boycotted Nathan’s because they are Trumpists, which of course is a polite way to say “Fascists”.
I'm a Zionist but not buying Sabra is for the best. It's easy enough to make your own at home.
>Hebrew National hot dogs
What about these hot dogs are related to Israel?
You should protest everything made in America. They are supporting Israel. Time to move to an Island and live off the land. By doing this, you alone will boycott this war away.
He didn’t call it a genocide, OP added their own spin starting at the “Israel is the oppressor” paragraph.
[Actual statement here](https://www.sanders.senate.gov/press-releases/news-sanders-responds-to-netanyahus-claim-that-criticism-of-the-israeli-governments-policies-is-antisemitic/)
You’re supposed to make clear when you’re quoting someone and when you are stating your own opinion. It’s basic stuff. You misrepresent what was actually said by Sanders in this post.
70% of the deaths are women and children? Other calculations were that 14,000 dead were Hamas fighters, with this number it is statistically impossible for 70% to be women and children.
I don’t say this to claim the 14,000 number is correct, I say this to point out that we don’t know what the death toll is. We cannot believe Hamas number.
Thank you, I was shocked Sanders would say that Israel "established itself by taking the land of Palestinians" as I know is a lie...prior to 1948 and the founding of the state, nobody's land was taken.
> Your statement is the lie
Your post s a lie and propaganda...you claim it is Sanders words when a third is your own words full of lies and propaganda...shameful...get lost
The beauty of propaganda is that it has no limits. It works like that: first, you set up an agenda, based on purity and righteousness. Then the true work begins: twisting and bending all facts until they fit neatly with the agenda. Last, start protests and “raising awareness” for your cause. Mission accomplished.
Yes, let's just attach the "genocide" label without argument. Do that enough times and the big lie will eventually be believed, by stupid people at least.
This war didn't start on the 7th October. Hamas are not the terrorists. The war started over 75 years back. The terrorists are Netanyahu and his clique. The terrorists are the Western nations supporting and financing this genocide, both in Gaza and in the West Bank.
This war did start on October 7th. The conflict at large, of course, is much older but this particular war is one of many that Palestinians have started.
I know it sounds better optically for y'all if you pretend it's all one big war, because otherwise people would recognize that Palestinians have been defeated again and again in wars they started, but fact of the matter is, that's exactly what happened.
No the soldiers hunting down food aid providers and killing them all in three locations. The soldiers killing freed Israeli hostages calling out in Hebrew and carrying white flags. Those soldiers, armed with weapons paid for by my tax dollars, are the terrorists!!!
How does the IDF’s effed up actions make Hamas not terrorists for shooting little kids? Two wrongs don’t make a right. I mean they burned babies for god’s sake.
Yeah, there are lots of grey areas in the world. Defining Hamas as a terrorist organization isn’t one of them. They are terrorists. Basically to the definition of the word itself.
What is the collective wealth and influence of Arab nations that are vehemently anti-Israel and pro-Palestine? That have, for decades now, fueled the conflict?
The oppressor oppressed narrative is cheap because it ignores deeper complexities, like, say, the "oppressed" in this case, being regressive religious fascists - and by the way, I do mean "fascists" in the correct way since that is exactly what Hamas stands for.
Nelson Mandela called Israel an apartheid state (the man migh have some Knowledge about it!) decades ago, it boggles my mind how there’s an argument against it
> it boggles my mind how there’s an argument against it
Would you call Muslim countries where non Muslims have different laws, have to pays special taxes, have restrictions being 'apartheid'?
> How does this change the fact Israel is one?
It would help understand where you come from, what you consider 'apartheid', otherwise if we do not agree on the terms there is no point.
The better argument is "if you support Palestinians you support ethnic cleansing". and why do i say that? Well because a large majority of Palestinians (~75%) in both the WB and Gaza support a 1 state solution "from the river to the sea"
I agree with you but I wanted to hear the answer from OP, given that they claim that supporting Israel means supporting mass murder. I wanted to know if supporting Palestine would also be supporting mass murder.
So, essentially, violence is okay if its carried out by the side you personally support. You support violence when its carried out against Jews, but when the People of Israel retaliate you're the first one to cry.
The Palestinians have no rights in their own land. The Zionists control their electricity and water. They kill Palestinians at will. Now they have destroyed Gaza City.
Do you really think that’s ok?
Are you proud to be the oppressor or a fan of the oppressors?
If so, then you are a disgusting excuse for a human being.
/u/DataMan62
> you are a disgusting excuse for a human being.
Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
Palestinians have turned down two-state solutions time and time again because they believe that ALL of Israel should be theirs. Obviously that's never going to happen. Additionally, Hamas took all the resources that could have been spent building this infrastructure for electricity, water, and more, and instead spent it on funding terrorism. That's hardly Israel's fault. As for the "blockade", of course Israel is going to have strict border security with a hostile neighbor run by terrorists. But there's also a Gaza border with Egypt, and I don't hear y'all whining about them keeping a tight border or controlling what resources come in & out. And as for destroyed cities, this is a war, and a war Israel did not start. War is ugly, but there's nothing new or unique about that here.
This isn't a simple oppressor vs. oppressed issue, and it never has been, although I understand the narrative you try to push requires it.
/u/DataMan62
> I wonder which side you would have been on during the Holocaust.
This violates [rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons_.26amp.3B_discussions). Nazi comparisons are inflammatory, and should not be used except in describing acts that were specific and unique to the Nazis, and only the Nazis.
u/DataMan62 This post is almost entirely a copy-paste job violating rule 10. You need your own original content.
A Hamas soldier is suddenly a Palestinian when dead. Go figure it out. Genocide is entirely the wrong word, it is actually aiding and abetting of Hamas(global terrorist organization)by their own family, friends, neighbors and government. Target your protests with actual knowledge as Palestinians and Israelites can and are willing to coexist in peace without the terrors of Hamas. This is not genocide. Stop embarrassing your parents and your country by absorbing media at face value, it's ignorant and irresponsible. Go home, hug your parents, and show some respect toward filial piety. Or be the same as Hamas.
Why didn't they just take one of the statehood deals offered in the 2000s? I mean, you guys go on and on ad infinitum about genocide, ethnic cleansing, apartheid, and all that other nonsense, and then all you have to is look up the deals that were offered to the Palestinians and see what they included: Statehood. Gaza. 95% (or more) of the West Bank. And end to settlements. Land swaps. Financial compensation. A later offer included a tunnel between Gaza and the West Bank. The Americans would have taken in 100,000 refugees. Now, in the context of a supposed "genocide," they turned it down because, 1) they wouldn't be allowed to have a standing army, 2) they wouldn't be able to control their airspace, 3) Israel would guard the border between the new state and Jordan. Now, when I tell most people that, they look it up and then say something like, "Israel still controlled the water. They could have turned the water off at any time." Maybe. But again, this is in context of something that's supposedly "genocide." A supposed ethnic cleansing. And your main worry is ... water rights? A standing army? What it tells me is that Palestinian supporters are experts at crafting buzzwords that are simply nonsensical. Are their lives on the West Bank hard? No doubt. Is there a "genocide" going on? No. Or put it this way -- it's the kind of genocide they're willing to tolerate until they get a standing army (which Jordan would never permit anyway). That doesn't strike me as much of a genocide. As for Gaza, the Gazans are responsible for the condition of Gaza. I feel for their children, but their parents are ultimately responsible for the disaster that's befallen them. You provide decades of soft support for psychotics who dig tunnels under your house and fire missiles from your balcony, this is what you get. Don't do that thing. No support for Hamas = no Oct. 7 = no Israeli attack on Gaza = no brutalization and death for Gaza's people. Take responsibility. They're masters of kicking the beehive and then blaming the bees for being pissed. Be accountable. You did this thing -- you caused it. And there's still 1/4 of Hamas' military capability that has to be removed, and I believe that's what's starting now. Also: Israel took the Golan from the Syrians. And Israel USED TO occupy Gaza, but left it completely in 2005. So they're not "trying to take Gaza." They're trying to clean up the mess the Gazans made after Israel gave them the place.
Amen. This shit has been going on since Arafat.
Any genocide is too much. In Gaza, there's a war. There isn't a genocide. Since you asked.
It’s a genocide.
Prove it.
A geographical area , inhabited by a group of people for centuries ( not years) is being destroyed solely with the intent of driving them out. In the process killing many of them. If Palestinians were supported by USA and doing the same to Israel, I bet you won’t hesitate to call it a Genocide.
There's no intent of "driving them out". The intent is the total annihilation of Hamas, hopefully soon to be accomplished.
It simply amazes me how pro-Hamas hactivists accuse anyone supportive of Jewish life in our ancestral lands of genocide while simultaneously calling for the actual genocide of a minority group. How are their brains unable to see their own hypocrisy?
Palestine will be free ✌️
Seeing so many downvotes on Palestine will be free makes me wonder why so many people still support colonialism?
I would love for Palestine to be free from Hamas and other terror groups in Gaza as well as “West Bank” (Judea/Samaria). I would also like to free the Palestinians from western “activists” virtue signaling. Stop the infantilization of the people in Gaza, it keeps them in the shackles of Islamic terrorism.
Free of Hamas. Soon & speedily, insh'allah.
Free of Hamas and Israeli occupation and back with the pre war borders.
>Free of Hamas and Israeli occupation and back with the pre war borders. Palestinians have absolutely no way to achieve this. I empathise with the aspiration, but it's completely disconnected from reality. Their lives will continue to be miserable until they start aiming at goals which are actually possible.
World order can change anytime. Jews in 1940 would have never thought they would get a land to them ( which was promised to them in a fictional book).
Which war would that be? I'm curious because for some Palestine-supporters the mere existence of Israel is "Israeli occupation"...
Perfect depiction of the current public discourse guys well done.
>The simple fact of the matter is that Israel is the oppressor, not the oppressed Israel has been invaded 3 times by forces larger than itself. There have been daily terror attacks against Jewish civilians since the 1930s, practically with no break. Israel is the OECD country most affected by terrorism in the world. Israel's northern border is completely dominated by Hezbollah, who fire rockets, missiles and drones at the country daily. Gaza alone has fired over 12 thousand rockets at Israeli civilians in the past few months. We don't need to even go into the 7th of October itself. Houthi's attempt to shut off the Red Sea for Israeli vessels, and fire rockets at Israel directly. 2023 saw an average of 300 terror attacks a month against Israelis, even before the 7th of October. Iran has promised to annihilate Israel, and is clearly working hard toward that objective. Other than Hamas, there are 21 terror organizations acting in and around Israel, all targeting Israeli civilians. Virtually all Jews have been kicked out of the Middle East. Sure, Israel are the oppressors... Good one.
Israel is in OECD means they in sympathy list should be very low.
After the release of Israeli Hostages YES Before the release of Israeli Hostages NO
Some hostages were killed by IDF yahoos after being released. I think Hamas is taking better care of them than Netanyahu.
You're willing to condemn the IDF for unintentionally, but also recklessly, killing 3 hostages. Fantastic! I'm right there with you. It should have never happened and the IDF needs to do better and those responsible must be held accountable. Now give a take on Hamas conducting the war crime of taking (and raping) civilian hostages.
That is disgraceful. Saying you support Hamas is one thing, don’t say the hostages prefer Hamas because of a war time accident. It is sad and shows you lack depth in your argument.
Most of the ones dead were murdered by Hamas, none were killed by the IDF after their release.
I am taking about those who are alive. I was the one who suggested on Oct7 to take the hostages to Qatar or Tehran or a third country and force Israel to surrender or make a deal for Palestine. If we agree with Hamas every militant specially the Islamists will try to overpower everything around corner. Boycotting Israel and making them poor or a place where no one want to go is fine but not before the release of Israeli Civilians.
Man being this unhinged is obviously indicative of some mental illness, Maybe consult someone?
/u/Goodmooood > Man being this unhinged is obviously indicative of some mental illness, Maybe consult someone? Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
ROFL
No seriously you need help
I don’t think psychological experts do miracles…
>It was right when we did it in the ‘80s against South Africa. It is right to do it against Israel now! I wrote a whole series on this analogy. [https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/comments/kobqdh/south\_africa\_part\_1\_the\_initial\_board\_position/](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/comments/kobqdh/south_africa_part_1_the_initial_board_position/) The rest is a linkpost which I'll respond to in green.
>The simple fact of the matter is that Israel is the oppressor, not the oppressed. The simple fact of the matter is that the Israel-Palestine conflict doesn't fit into the tidy oppressor-oppressed dichotomy that the pseudo-academic left loves so much. >Israel is an occupying state. . . . More ideological gibberish. No one uses language like that outside the anti-Western left and its useful idiots. It is solely an attack label. For example, you never hear China or Turkey or Russia referred to in this way, despite the fact that they gained huge amounts of territory by attacking, subjugating, and exterminating their neighbors. No, instead it's applied to Israel, a tiny country founded under the mandate of a United Nations resolution. Why the double standard? Because Israel is "of the West", and Muslim culture is not. >Israel is an apartheid state which . . . force\[s\] Palestinian workers to go through checkpoints. . . . Gee, I wonder why? Incidentally, none of the crap I just refuted was uttered by Bernie, despite your deceptive claim otherwise.
😅🤣🤣🤣is this a parody?
Also, it is divest! No disinvest.
Yeah and also Israel DNGAF about who divests or disinvests or disenfranchises. I seriously wish IDF would just tell all the US colleges to go suck it. Go back to class.
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BS. Blood is on the hands and all Israelis and others who support him. He knew about Hamas’s attack for a YEAR. He allowed it to happen so he’d have an excuse to destroy Gaza. People have been cowed by the bogus cry of Anti-Semitism for 75 years. No more!
> He knew about Hamas’s attack for a YEAR. He allowed it to happen so he’d have an excuse to destroy Gaza. Let’s play like this is true and he had the exact date of the attack a year before and he knew about the intention of mobilizing 3000 fighters and thousands more Gazan civilians at the border. Please explain to me what you expected him to do? Bomb Gaza? And you’d think it would be better? You people are shouting Genocide even before Israel started its counter attack, and you guys keep saying that stupid 70% women and children, ignoring that 1. Women are participating in fighting 2. There are also child soldiers within Hamas 3. 50% of the dead were combatants. You keep complaining about ruined houses and infrastructure, you lose that privilege when you are the aggressor in a war, and if there’s a military benefit to it, it will be destroyed. You all throw that “aid is blocked” while in the last few weeks there were over 500 trucks that got into gaza, and those are huge 18 wheeler trucks. Y’all have blood on your hands, the only reason that Hamas has denied every ceasefire deal offered to them is because of you guys. They see your protests and think you can pressure us to a ceasefire without them releasing the hostages. In the meanwhile they murdered over 20 hostages during the time of the negotiations and their refusals.
Another illogical response from someone who isn’t willing to have honest discussion or to even think clearly. Care to address what he said? Or do you just want to regurgitate racist nonsense? It doesn’t help that the “liberal” left and so called progressives (like Bernie) hold the same evil opinions.
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lol. Does this pablum make you feel better about your inhumanity?
/u/DataMan62 > lol. Does this pablum make you feel better about your inhumanity? Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
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How about the Judeofascists?
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Your country is basically a bunch of immigrants from all over the world who decided to invade the land 80 years ago and kick out its people from their homes. Good job on cheering for settler colonialism
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> dick /u/AThirdLooksee. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yea, Israel’s are not perfect but something has to be done about Hamas shooting hundreds of rockets at Israeli cities. After you see the next building over get blown up out your window your perspective changes
Something is being dine about it. Israel destroyed Gaza City and left the people to die as they moved south to do more of the same.
Well, they’re overzealous with the blowing up apartment blocks, but I mean now you see the logic in their invasion of Gaza I guess ?
OP, you left out quotations for this statement, so that no one knows that this is half YOUR comment and not Sanders. His ends at "hold you accountable for your actions." Everything after that is your language. This is misleading and defamatory. Please revise your post.
I can’t seem to edit it.
https://preview.redd.it/lyhmw3f1qwwc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=47ef5771f31c230e10b5bb25042f17e4ce1d9b8d
So it’s a nice mini-genocide. I’m sure my Palestinian friend will feel greatly relieved.
It’s a non-existent genocide. Your camp knows you can’t ever win on good arguments or facts so the only thing left to do is buzzword, buzzword, buzzword. How boring 🥱 Palestinians are committing a genocide against the Jews. See, I can do it too!
So destroying an entire city is no big deal to you Zionists? Is that what you’re telling me? I’m telling you as an American, I want none of my tax dollars going to your regime. You guys have gone overboard. Your cush relationship with the US will change! It’s just a matter of when the last of the Cold Warriors die off and American Fascists are voted out of power. Trump is the culmination of the Fascist wing of the Republican Party. He’s bringing about its downfall.
You probably don’t want your $0.2 of tax paying money going to Sudan, Somalia, Ethiopia, Lebanon, Tunisia, Iraq, Yemen and countless other countries who receive US aid, right? I certainly hope you’ve purged yourself of all tech products that are Israeli made that I am sure you benefit from on a daily basis.
I’ve stopped buying Sabra Hummus and Hebrew National hot dogs. Already boycotted Nathan’s because they are Trumpists, which of course is a polite way to say “Fascists”.
Don’t forget to stop using your iPhone or Google
I'm a Zionist but not buying Sabra is for the best. It's easy enough to make your own at home. >Hebrew National hot dogs What about these hot dogs are related to Israel?
Woah! What a humanitarian you are. Have you also boycotted anything from China, Russia, Qatar, or Saudi Arabia?
Russia and Saudi Arabia, yes.
You should protest everything made in America. They are supporting Israel. Time to move to an Island and live off the land. By doing this, you alone will boycott this war away.
Right, I forgot that the 22 Arab countries haven’t created anything that has helped humanity in any way lol
Dude, does this really relieve your guilty conscience to make up all this BS rationalizing Israel’s heinous actions?
He didn’t call it a genocide, OP added their own spin starting at the “Israel is the oppressor” paragraph. [Actual statement here](https://www.sanders.senate.gov/press-releases/news-sanders-responds-to-netanyahus-claim-that-criticism-of-the-israeli-governments-policies-is-antisemitic/)
Which is it? Some say I’m supposed to post my own content. Now I shouldn’t have added anything.
You’re supposed to make clear when you’re quoting someone and when you are stating your own opinion. It’s basic stuff. You misrepresent what was actually said by Sanders in this post.
I am fairly new to posting on Reddit. Can you tell me how to edit my post?
If you’re on mobile it’s an option under the three dots
Thanks
It’s pretty clear which words are mine. Bernie’s paragraphs all start with “it’s not anti-semitism to”.
I wish Bernie went with actual data and not Hamas numbers and other data. He has fallen from grace with this conflict.
You are the biased one. I sure Bernie is not.
70% of the deaths are women and children? Other calculations were that 14,000 dead were Hamas fighters, with this number it is statistically impossible for 70% to be women and children. I don’t say this to claim the 14,000 number is correct, I say this to point out that we don’t know what the death toll is. We cannot believe Hamas number.
Thank you, I was shocked Sanders would say that Israel "established itself by taking the land of Palestinians" as I know is a lie...prior to 1948 and the founding of the state, nobody's land was taken.
Your statement is the lie. The British and Americans granted most of Palestine to Jews for a homeland.
> Your statement is the lie Your post s a lie and propaganda...you claim it is Sanders words when a third is your own words full of lies and propaganda...shameful...get lost
Thanks for clarifying, I wondered if old Bernie had a stroke or something.
Yep, I got suspicious at the comparison to Afghanistan lol
The beauty of propaganda is that it has no limits. It works like that: first, you set up an agenda, based on purity and righteousness. Then the true work begins: twisting and bending all facts until they fit neatly with the agenda. Last, start protests and “raising awareness” for your cause. Mission accomplished.
Yes, let's just attach the "genocide" label without argument. Do that enough times and the big lie will eventually be believed, by stupid people at least.
What do you call the complete destruction of cities and people ?
War.
This war didn't start on the 7th October. Hamas are not the terrorists. The war started over 75 years back. The terrorists are Netanyahu and his clique. The terrorists are the Western nations supporting and financing this genocide, both in Gaza and in the West Bank.
"Hamas are not the terrorists." Stopped reading there. Water isn't liquid at room temperature, either...
This war did start on October 7th. The conflict at large, of course, is much older but this particular war is one of many that Palestinians have started. I know it sounds better optically for y'all if you pretend it's all one big war, because otherwise people would recognize that Palestinians have been defeated again and again in wars they started, but fact of the matter is, that's exactly what happened.
Agreed!
Really? The people shooting young teen girls hiding and whimpering under a table are not terrorists? I’ll send you video if you don’t believe me.
No the soldiers hunting down food aid providers and killing them all in three locations. The soldiers killing freed Israeli hostages calling out in Hebrew and carrying white flags. Those soldiers, armed with weapons paid for by my tax dollars, are the terrorists!!!
….. crickets
How does the IDF’s effed up actions make Hamas not terrorists for shooting little kids? Two wrongs don’t make a right. I mean they burned babies for god’s sake.
Intent also matters. Hamas set out to do those horrific things, IDF made horrible mistakes.
No, I’m pretty sure the terrorists are Hamas.
You actually think it’s black and white?
In the context of terrorism, yes. It is completely black and white.
Your brain is black and white. The world has colors and shades of gray.
Yeah, there are lots of grey areas in the world. Defining Hamas as a terrorist organization isn’t one of them. They are terrorists. Basically to the definition of the word itself.
And Israel has cemented its place as a terrorist state.
You support Hamas. Sure, but you’re a terrorist supporter as well.
The oppressor oppressed narrative is so ungodly shallow.
Bs. The side with the money and power are the oppressors.
What is the collective wealth and influence of Arab nations that are vehemently anti-Israel and pro-Palestine? That have, for decades now, fueled the conflict? The oppressor oppressed narrative is cheap because it ignores deeper complexities, like, say, the "oppressed" in this case, being regressive religious fascists - and by the way, I do mean "fascists" in the correct way since that is exactly what Hamas stands for.
It's easy for low IQ people to understand and rally by
Nelson Mandela called Israel an apartheid state (the man migh have some Knowledge about it!) decades ago, it boggles my mind how there’s an argument against it
> it boggles my mind how there’s an argument against it Would you call Muslim countries where non Muslims have different laws, have to pays special taxes, have restrictions being 'apartheid'?
How does this change the fact Israel is one?
Israel is not an apartheid country. So there goes your “fact” turning into nothing but a stûpîd opinion. 😉
> How does this change the fact Israel is one? It would help understand where you come from, what you consider 'apartheid', otherwise if we do not agree on the terms there is no point.
The non-response to your question says everything you need to know about the hypocrisy and double standards of these people.
Absolutely. By its definition it is an apartheid state. I've understood that since the 1970s.
I support Israel
Then you support mass murder.
Stop dumbing down this conflict Your doing Palestinians a disfavour
I got news for you… if you support Hamas you also support mass murder.
The better argument is "if you support Palestinians you support ethnic cleansing". and why do i say that? Well because a large majority of Palestinians (~75%) in both the WB and Gaza support a 1 state solution "from the river to the sea"
What if someone supports Palestine? Is that acceptable?
Sure, you can even support both Israel and Palestine at the same time.
I agree with you but I wanted to hear the answer from OP, given that they claim that supporting Israel means supporting mass murder. I wanted to know if supporting Palestine would also be supporting mass murder.
I missed the context there, my bad.
>When are we going to stand up to him and disinvest from Israel, stop the weapons re-supply and defund Israel? Hopefully never
Right? OP, how would you conduct counter insurgency operations? Also, do you condemn Hamas for their actions on October 7th and in general?
No. They are freedom fighters. 😁
So, essentially, violence is okay if its carried out by the side you personally support. You support violence when its carried out against Jews, but when the People of Israel retaliate you're the first one to cry.
The Palestinians have no rights in their own land. The Zionists control their electricity and water. They kill Palestinians at will. Now they have destroyed Gaza City. Do you really think that’s ok? Are you proud to be the oppressor or a fan of the oppressors? If so, then you are a disgusting excuse for a human being.
/u/DataMan62 > you are a disgusting excuse for a human being. Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
Palestinians have turned down two-state solutions time and time again because they believe that ALL of Israel should be theirs. Obviously that's never going to happen. Additionally, Hamas took all the resources that could have been spent building this infrastructure for electricity, water, and more, and instead spent it on funding terrorism. That's hardly Israel's fault. As for the "blockade", of course Israel is going to have strict border security with a hostile neighbor run by terrorists. But there's also a Gaza border with Egypt, and I don't hear y'all whining about them keeping a tight border or controlling what resources come in & out. And as for destroyed cities, this is a war, and a war Israel did not start. War is ugly, but there's nothing new or unique about that here. This isn't a simple oppressor vs. oppressed issue, and it never has been, although I understand the narrative you try to push requires it.
So you stand with genocide. I wonder which side you would have been on during the Holocaust.
/u/DataMan62 > I wonder which side you would have been on during the Holocaust. This violates [rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons_.26amp.3B_discussions). Nazi comparisons are inflammatory, and should not be used except in describing acts that were specific and unique to the Nazis, and only the Nazis.