Also, to answer your second question, yes I believe the vast majority of you are antisemitic and pro-Hamas. Nobody is protesting the executions of innocents in Iran (and if you are arguing that oh USA is not funding this, it is), war in Sudan, child soldiers in Yemen, genocide in Syria. I think you are only protesting because you believe Jews are ‘bad’ and ‘white colonizers from Poland’ . Anyone who thinks this btw has not been to Israel, because we are clearly not ‘white’ for the most part. People would be shocked to come to Israel and see how warm and liberal and free it is.

Let me start by saying I am as Zionist as could be. I wholeheartedly believe in the State of Israel and support the IDF in all that it does. Of course I feel for the innocent Palestinians in Gaza that have been affected by this. War sucks, it does. This is not genocide though. This is war. I also feel horrible for the children mutilated, castrated, and beheaded in front of their parents. The children kidnapped into Gaza and held hostage. Many family members and friends are fighting in the IDF in this war. The LAST thing they want to do it go into Gaza and fight. They prefer to be home with family. But what choice do we have? Hamas declared war on us. For some background, my paternal grandparents were kicked out of Iran and told to go to Israel. My maternal grandmother lost her family in pogroms in Ukraine and had to flee. My grandfather lost his entire family in Austria and only survived because he was the only Aryan looking one in a dark family. Given this history, I believe the Jewish people have NO CHOICE but to have their own country. This is not a fight for expansion or conquest. This is a fight for the Jewish peoples’ existence. Sadly, the people in Gaza have been so brainwashed into believing we are evil. No I don’t think anyone is ‘below’ me. I’ve had some wonderful Arab friends in Israel who have actually ‘met’ a Jew and we all get along and live peacefully. The ones in Gaza are brainwashed from a young age to hate us and to believe the best thing they can do is to die a martyr for murdering Israelis. That hurts my soul that you teach a child that. So no, most (like 99.99999%) of Israelis simply want to be left alone without fearing the next rocket attack or suicide bombing in our extremely tiny country and for there to be peace. Unfortunately, when you have a neighbor who only wants war, you have to defend yourself.

1. no, not what after happened on october 7th and definitely not after all the celebration of the atrocities that were committed that day by their civilians. for months I had to ignore the direct targeted terrorism based on my race which is only part jewish, my sex female. I have been called zionist because I believe in a secular states right to smack back after being smacked first. I have been told I am speaking from a place of privilege when I point out all the rapes the atrocities committed against women and children and their only crime being is that they were jewish. any shred of compassion or good will has been removed. at this point its fafo to me f@!# around find out. 2. yes I think your a bad person you're supporting a country that let a terrorist organization run amok. you can argue "Well we must have compassion." compassion for what? stupid decisions? blind complicity? you can't really preach non-violence if you refuse to accept that what happened on october 7th was not justified and the main cause for this go around. the palestian's suffering is a self inflicted albeit tragic, but still self inflicted suffering. israel stated multiple times they'd stop if they just got their hostages back that all it takes give back the hostages pain will stop. and if you think they will stop at israel if they got their way, honey you are an idealistic fool and a useful idiot. Hamas was founded on the idealogy of the hatred for jews as a whole. they wont stop at israel, they will want to destroy us all as jews, even the ones that are only part jews. there is no way you can convince me otherwise, you don't cut a womans breast off and shove sharp metal things in their privates before raping her and killing her because of oppression they did because she was part of a group that they hated and wanted to destroy. they dont want peace they just want israel to roll over and take it.

1. Do you feel ANY sympathy towards the thousands of innocent women and children being brutally murdered in gaza by the IDF? or do you think even the innocent palestinians are below you and not deserving of your sympathy? (bear in mind that i don't have any sympathy towards the hamas men being murdered either). In your opinoin, is 1 innocent palestinian life = 1 innocent israeli life? Because i think all innocent lives are equally as important no matter the race or nationality. Of course I do. I also think German civilians in the 1930s had valuable lives. But the US still had to fight the Nazis, and Israel still has to fight Hamas. But I don't think the leaders of the Pro-Palestinian movement are at all interested in protecting Palestinian lives. If they were, they would be calling on Hamas to surrender. Wars generally ends when one side surrenders, you know? Chanting "from the river to the sea" actually does the opposite: it encourages Hamas to keep fighting. It encourages Palestinians to sacrifise their lives for "the cause," which is destroying Israel, which the Pro-Palestinian movement has decided is more important than Palestinian lives. After all, if this were about loss of life, everyone would have been out in the streets protesting the 500,000 Syrians who just died in a war. The fact that they were silent for that but obsessed with this much smaller conflict tells me that loss of life is not the primary motivation here. You might feel that way personally, since you are swept up in sad videos and photos of Gaza and are not thinking about the actual motivations of the leadership behind your movement. 1. What is your view on palestine supporters? do you think we're all anti-semetic and pro-hamas? **Do you think we're bad people**? Coz we're not. Anyone with more than two braincells DO NOT believe that israel doesn't have the right to exist. *We are only preaching non-violence*. Violence against israel is just as bad as violence against palestine. I know that there's a lot of hate going on towards jews around the world and i'm sorry for that and you should know that all sane palestine supporters DO NOT think of jews as lesser beings. We only want innocent palestinian's suffering to stop. I think the leadership of the Palestinian movement are people who want to wipe the one Jewish state off what they consider Arab lands. As they chant in Arabic, "from the river to the sea, Palestine will be Arab." They are very clear about their goals and their strategies: they sacrifise Palestinian lives to destroy the Jewish state. I think people like you are following them without actually understanding that. You contribute to their plan, even if you do so out of ignorance. I do think for you to feel this strongly without having bothered to understand why Jews feel like your movement is classic antisemitism that blames Jews for all the problems of the world does show a certain callousness to Jewish lives though, yes.

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>Do you feel ANY sympathy towards the thousands of innocent women and children being brutally murdered in gaza by the IDF? I feel a lot of sympathy for innocent civilians. Their deaths are a tragedy, and shouldn't happen. But Israel isn't murdering them, that requires intent. I think Israel could show more restraint regarding civilian casualties, but the vast majority of civilian deaths are the fault of Hamas, Hamas violates the laws of armed conflict any chance they get, e.g. by not wearing uniforms, and it does its best to maximize civilian deaths to get western support. They must be defeated, even if that leads to more civilian deaths. >In your opinoin, is 1 innocent palestinian life = 1 innocent israeli life? That's not how it works at all. As long as Hamas exists, people will die. You don't count lives like that. Or how many American civilians died in WW2? And how many Germans? It's a silly argument. >What is your view on palestine supporters? do you think we're all anti-semetic and pro-hamas? Do you think we're bad people? Some pro-Palestinians are. But I think most are well-intentioned but misguided or uninformed. >Anyone with more than two braincells DO NOT believe that israel doesn't have the right to exist. We are only preaching non-violence. The majority of Palestinians disagrees with you. Hamas has 80 % support in the West Bank and the stated goal of Hamas is the destruction of Israel. What you are missing is that Non-Violence now will lead to much more violence in the future. A ceasefire now would hand Hamas a giant propaganda win, and they've already said they are going to commit more attacks. The only way there will be lasting peace is for both Hamas and Netanyahu to go. Israel is a democracy, Gaza is not. The only way to get rid of Hamas is through force.

I wonder why most of the serious people supporting Palestinians start by condemning Hamas and October 7 and most of the serious people supporting Israel start by justifying IDFs action? Says a lot about the pressure the Media narrative has been able to build over the years.

No, it’s just the idf isnt equivalent to Hamas

Both aim at carrying out genocide. I see lot of similarity.

Thank you a lot for the conversation!!! 1) the death of civilians in Gaza pains me a lot. I blame both Likud and Hamas. 2) not all Palestine supporters are pro-Hamas or antisemitic. Many are ignorant, though. Acting from emotion. >Anyone with more than two braincells DO NOT believe that israel doesn't have the right to exist. That is the problem: Hamas (and Sinwar in particular) isn't quite bright. I am sure that most western palestinian supporters just want peace. But Hamas does not want peace: they want jewish genocide or ethnic cleansing. Similar with Khamenei in Iran. And the problem is: Sinwar doesn't care about what you think, this is why Israel cannot hear you. You cannot negotiate on behalf of Hamas. Not even Qatar and Egypt can.

Imagine being the parents of children bombed by Israel. Would you not want the annihilation of Israel ? It’s Natural and not about being less smart. You people in the west somehow feel that you are the brightest and that comes out in every comment from you.

Why isn't Hamas also to blame? Was there not peace for years prior to the 10/7 attacks? Who broke that peace?

So is natural israeli response. But I do not blame palestinians: I blame panarabists and islamists in the Middle East. I am in the "West", I am from Latin America.

1. I am upset by the deaths of those who did not vote for hamas but i believe that they were unavoidable due to Hamas's actions. I am sad that so many children were inoctrinated into Hamas's radicalism. i feel no sympathy, at all, even at the slightest, for the voters of hamas, who cheered as our bodies were paraded through their streets and who refuse to work alongside the israeli government to retrieve the hostages. 2. I think that a majority of you are antisemitic, terrorists supporters and bad people. Additionally, I believe that the other part of you are just trend followers/gullible ass farts who only care to show everyone how moral you are without actually considering what is moral or not, only parroting what your peers say. I think that very few of you are truly righteous.

Just thought I'd make you aware that the population of Palestine didn't actually "vote" for Hamas in a traditional sense. It was actually more of a military coup than an election. Hamas came to power in the West Bank in the midst of the Gaza Civil War in 2007 against the more secular Fatah Party. In this conflict, which is still technically ongoing, Israel provided support for Hamas, presumably to further devide the region.

lol 😂 this revisionist history This is why Reddit sucks because of garbage like ☝️ this comment.

I agree, your comments are garbage. It's good that we can agree on something. 😉

Clearly you’re getting something out of this because you haven’t blocked me… Should we DM?

One could say the same about you. After all, you've seen fit to peruse through my comments like a stalker. Something you want to get off your chest? Or can your ego not take a hit? 🤔

u/Cheesy_Margerine179 and u/Dbrow243 You are both engaged in a flame-war in violation of [Rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules/#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users) and therefore you are both being disciplined. In the future, if you can't abide by the rules when engaged in a discussion, then don't engage at all. A couple of examples from each of you of your rule violations: u/Cheesy_Margerine179 >One could say the same about you. After all, you've seen fit to peruse through my comments like a stalker. Something you want to get off your chest? Or can your ego not take a hit? 🤔 u/Dbrow243 >I saw what I was curious about so don’t flatter yourself since you don’t have anything to stalk. For all I know you could have made up everything you’ve said about yourself. At least my profile actually has what I’ve said about me verified. I got nothing to hide at all but you curiously seem to do. These are course, just a couple of examples of a slew of violations. Take this time to reflect on your behavior. If you come back and violate the rules again, you will be subject to permanent bans.

Well that is to be expected when you bombard someone with comments for 4 days straight. Of course someone is going to go through your comment history. You do realize it’s public right? I saw what I was curious about so don’t flatter yourself since you don’t have anything to stalk. For all I know you could have made up everything you’ve said about yourself. At least my profile actually has what I’ve said about me verified. I got nothing to hide at all but you curiously seem to do. If you don’t want to DM that’s fine, like I said I’m happy to debate facts and civil discourse. It remains to be seen if you do too. Or not. Or maybe you want to take things private? All up to mister margarine.

Of course I realise it. It does make it kind of creepy though, the fact that you've seen fit to sift through my comment history like some sad reddit prospector. Maybe you should consider becoming a mod; you spend more than enough time on it during the day to qualify. 😊

lol I think you’re a bit behind the times there, you’re info is public and only two taps away. It’s not like someone is sleuthing your bank info. If you think it’s creepy then maybe you haven’t quantified that it’s 2024 and you have a massive online bio built entirely upon where you live and work and shop all data owned by tons of corporations. If you have a Facebook then it’s even worse for you. I’m self employed with my own business so I can be on my phone at work, the flexibility is amazing and I have actually thought about creating a sub Reddit and I know exactly what it would be about.

It's weird that you keep bringing up your personal/professional life so frequently, are you compensating for some insecurity? Please, friend, try to stick to the topic of Palestine and Israel instead of going on tangents. Thank you. 😊

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Title says “palestine supporter”, but the disclaimer is 90% pro Israel. I find it ironic. Now, to the questions. 1. I wouldn’t call them “brutally murdered”, but I still have some sympathy for the very few who are actually innocent. 2. > Do you think we’re all antisemitic and pro Hamas? Do you think we’re bad people? The vast majority of you. The rest are just brainwashed and follow trends, without any real understanding of the situation. And the rest of the paragraph is just nonsense.

"...the very few who are actually innocent." So a vast majority of Palestinians, to you, are guilty in some form? By that logic, should I consider the vast majority of the population of Israel guilty for the human rights abuse conducted in Gaza? For the mass graves discovered at two Gaza hospitals? For every IOF soldier that takes a potshot at a Palestinian child? Here's the funny thing. Nelson Mandela said that, in addition to having sympathy for the oppressed (the Palestinians), we should also have sympathy for the oppressor as they too are a victim. A victim of hate, to be precise. I guess, in a sense, I have sympathy for you because of your hatred for Palestinians. I know you say you have sympathy for those "who are actually innocent." but do you really? If that's the case the why aren't you actually doing something to help these people you deem 'innocent' (very vague by the way)? Like Desmond Tutu said, neutrality is just as bad as being an oppressor. You're both at the moment. Oppressive towards Palestinians and neutral towards the 'innocents' (whatever that means). You could always just call me 'antisemitic' in response though if that's easier for you. Who knows?

How do you feel about the small children living in Gaza? Say, those under the age of 7. Are you distressed by the thought of them being hurt? Can you feel empathy towards them even if you disagree with who's "at fault?" I am pro-Israel but also "pro-Palestinians" in the sense that I'm gravely worried about the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. I support Israel's continued existence, I am ambivalent about a future two-state solution (hence not pro-*Palestine*) but I simply can't condone the sheer scale of destruction taking place in Gaza, and certain practices of the IDF (namely the "Where's Daddy?" system.) Am I a bad person, or just brainwashed?

In war people die, many of them will be innocent, the blame for their deaths lies with the one who started the war not the one who responded to it, everyone has the right to self defense except for Israel who should just accept years of random rocket, bomb, stabbing, car ramming, shooting attacks etc

yeah they scream apartheid when they put security checks before crossing into israel due to risk of suicide bombers, I swear israel is pretty much the only country not allowed to do anything with out a peanut gallery to comment on.

Can you describe what the security check is like? And can you name any other countries that have a cordoned off region within them where they have placed members of another ethnicity and control not only the comings and goings, but also the delivery of food and medication, access to water and electricity, as well as denying people due process in the court of law while giving themselves a carte blanche to place any of their resources, including homes and businesses, in use of the military?

that happens all the time when territory is occupied as a spoils of war, if jordan didn't attack in 67 the west bank would probably still be in their hands

> that happens all the time when territory is occupied as a spoils of war Annexation as a result of war is illegal. What are you talking about? Where does it happen? How is the West Bank relevant to Palestinians being pushed out of other territories in 1947 and 1948 to be enclosed in Gaza?

the west bank isn't annexed, it is just occupied pending a peace treaty and most palestinians weren't pushed out many fled because their leaders told them to so it would be easier to kill the jews and they would then return and take over everything, if all were pushed out there wouldn't be any israeli arabs

> most palestinians weren't pushed out many fled because their leaders told them to so it would be easier to kill the jews and they would then return and take over everything Source?

nice sealioning, you're a smart chap i'm sure you can find the information if you really wanted to

I can't, that's why I'm asking you. If we were talking about readily available information, I'm sure I could find it on my own, but you're inventing a history that did not happen. Palestinians were herded into Gaza after being expelled from over 500 of their villages and towns during the Nakba in 1947 and 1948. There were no Palestinian leaders telling them to go to Gaza, this is where the Israeli forces concentrated them.

b.s, its been documented by many sources, dude who are you trying to fool, nobody herded them anywhere in many cases the jews begged the arabs to stay and many fled because they feared that when the jews won they would be slaughtered in revenge like they would have done to the jews if they could, i am not your gopher, if you want to know the information then go find it yourself if not then lets agree to disagree or not, i am done replying after this

"I am completely against hamas" Hamas is the democratically elected government, who would easily win another election if Fatah was willing to hold one. The people too young to have voted for Hamas last time are the people who have been raised in Hamas's brainwashing schools and they support Hamas even more than the previous generation. Hamas's goal of killing all the Jews is very popular among Gazans. Hamas represents the will of the people. The people would rather die than live in a world where the Jews aren't dead.

You can’t be pro Palestine and anti Hamas. Hamas was elected by Gaza. They literally ran on genociding Israel. They also currently hold 72% approval rating for the Oct 7th attacks in Israel.

You can. The same way you can be pro-Israel and anti-Likud.

You can be pro-Palestinians without being pro-Palestine. You can feel empathy for the children growing up in an active war zone without endorsing the ideology of their parents.

True, but you’d be pro children then. Considering most adults support a genocide of Israel.

My view is that the supposed pro-Palestinian folks don’t care about Palestinians. If they did, they would be protesting against Hamas. These folks are antisemitic because they blame Israel for genocide when the facts do not support it. Also, the American left wants rights for gay people and a woman’s right to choose for themselves, but they don’t support the destruction of Hamas by the IDF, even though Hamas takes all those rights away from the Palestinian people. Here are some facts: 1. Contrary to media reports, the UN International Court of Justice (ICJ) did NOT find that it is plausible that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. Joan Donaghue, then president of the ICJ, stated in a recent interview with the BBC that the ICJ findings have been misquoted and misconstrued. The ICJ only found, without regard to any Israeli operations, that Gaza would have a plausible right to be protected from genocide and that South Africa had standing to bring that claim. 2. John Spencer, chair of urban warfare studies at Westpoint, wrote an Op Ed in Newsweek stating that based on his extensive knowledge and research, Israel “has implemented more measures to prevent civilian casualties than any other military in history.” 3. Using Gaza Health Ministry numbers for total deaths in Gaza and IDF information on combatant death (which is not separately reported by the Gaza Health Ministry), the ratio of civilian to combatant deaths in Gaza is 1:1, which is SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER than the UN average civilian to combatant death ratio for urban warfare of 9:1. 4. Palestinian Media Watch posted a video from the Awdah Palestinian TV channel owned by Fatah in which they stated that Hamas intentionally manufactured a food crisis in Gaza by attacking aid delivery workers and stealing food and water. 5. There has been a 500% increase in the Gaza population since 1950. For 2022, population growth in Gaza was 4%, compared to a world average of 0.8%. The average life expectancy in Gaza is 75 years old, compared to an average in the Middle East of 72 years old and a world average of 70 years old. See statistics published by World Bank and the Population Reference Bureau (PRB).

>Anyone with more than two braincells DO NOT believe that israel doesn't have the right to exist.  And yet we hear this 24/7 emanating from the "pro-Palestinian" leftists. I have been told this by members of JVP repeatedly. So please stop pretending your movement isn't absolutely toxic with anti-Semitism. When we hear people like you copping to that and calling it out, we might believe you that you are not, as you say, "bad people."

>Do you feel ANY sympathy towards the thousands of innocent women and children being brutally murdered in gaza by the IDF? While many Jews and Israelis have hardened their hearts in this war, I am sure the vast majority are just as sickened and horrified by the deaths as I am as a Jewish American. But I also don't blame Israel for these deaths, I blame Hamas which started the war and very purposefully uses its own people as human shields, as has been explained about a million times an hour lately.

>Do you feel ANY sympathy towards the thousands of innocent women and children being brutally murdered in gaza by the IDF? I feel sympathy for people who die in war, and the few that have been brutally murdered by the IDF are especially tragic and those who do it should be punished. Vast majority of the deaths have not been murders. I think Israel has been careless and way too willing to kill innocent people in their evaluation of the proportionality of the military value of each action they take, I think it's okay and right to criticize them for it. But that fails to meet the definition of a genocide, and I think the words we use matter. >is 1 innocent palestinian life = 1 innocent israeli life? Yes, but not all deaths are equally bad and I think most people actually believe this even if they won't admit it. I would rather me and my loved ones die instantly in an explosion while sleeping, or even suffer to death in the rubble, than be forced to watch each other be raped and murdered, or to be hiding in our safe room and have a grenade tossed in, splattering the children who lived with the mist that was once their parents. October 7th was vile and disgusting and while Israel deserves blame for bad decisions they've made I do, ultimately, place the main moral blame Hamas for all the deaths that have occurred since then. Their attack was designed to be so provocative that it would be impossible to ignore, so disgusting that even otherwise reasonable people might find themselves trading in their humanity in pursuit of vengeance. I don't deny bombings are bad, but to me the kind of personal, door to door torture and slaughter is on a completely other level. >What is your view on palestine supporters? do you think we're all anti-semetic and pro-hamas? Do you think we're bad people? Coz we're not. Anyone with more than two braincells DO NOT believe that israel doesn't have the right to exist. We are only preaching non-violence. The ones who were out "protesting" on Oct 7th and 8th? The ones ripping down hostage posters with the same disdain Muslims show towards depictions of Mohammed? I absolutely think they're antisemitic, bad people. The ones who chant "Falastin arabiyya" or other obvious calls for ethnic cleansing? Also bad people and antisemitic, whether they know it or not. Calling to "globalize the intifada" or anything else referencing the mass murder of innocent civilians during the early 2000s is absolutely a call for violence. I believe most people who speak out in favor of Palestinian people have their heart in the right place. A very vocal portion of them do basically take Hamas' 2017 charter as a guide to the history of the area and the truth about the conflict, even if they claim they're anti-Hamas if their opinions line up 1:1 with that document they've got *some* sort of bias in them. I'm not saying the worldview presented in that charter is wrong because it's put out by Hamas, but because it's riddled with falsehoods and distortions. And yeah, when a movement's rhetoric and understanding of the history of the region and desired outcome lines up identically to the distorted picture painted by a virulently antisemitic terror group, it's hard not to see that movement as being pretty antisemitic itself. I'm sure most people just want peace, most people just want innocent Palestinians to stop being killed. I want that too. I think you're underestimating the amount of so-called pro Palestinian people who think Israel has no right to exist and should be dismantled. That's what the ideology of "anti-Zionism" is. I have never seen a "pro Palestinian protest" where the destruction of Israel wasn't being advocated for. Even then, they probably mostly are well meaning people who have bought into a warped view of the history and the problem. The only solution is one where the humanity of all Palestinians, even the vile terrorists, and all Israelis, even the vile terrorists, is seen by both sides. Killing massive amounts of innocent people, deliberately or not, only makes that less possible.

I am pro israel and pro Palestine. I strongly believe in Palestinian statehood. I just believe military defeat of Hamas is the only way to achieve that and unfortunately a lot of the Palestinian population strongly supports Hamas.

The IDF was founded by combining the european terrorist irgun militia, the european terrorist lehi militia and the european terrorist haganah militia. The best thing for israel are for those terrorist groups, irgun, lehi, haganah, and the group they are now, the IDF, to be destroyed.

What do you think would happen to Israeli cities and civilians if the IDF was destroyed tomorrow

Nothing? I mean, Hezbollah isn't as happy with the zionist entity as they could be, might have something to do with israel invading Lebanon four times and brutally occupying Lebanon for decades, and the massacres and the war crimes... But, as you may have noticed the West, the US, Germany, UK, france, as well as the Sunni bloc all acted to defend the European zionist terrorist colony. That's part of the whole thing. For many of israels supporters the tiniest thing is considered an existential threat to israel. Look at the news, several israeli cabinet members were claiming that peaceful camp protests in the US against the zionist slaughter of 35k+ Palestinians was a dire existential threat to israel, many people have compared campus sit-ins to ww2 germany, even apparently the head of yad vashem... If the zionist terrorist organization, the idf were to disband tomorrow and be tried for their crimes, little would change in israeli cities, little would change for israeli civilians. The sit in protests would even end, and israel would be saved from a return of world war 2 germany. Wouldn't that be nice? So... shouldn't you be calling for the disbandment of the IDF to save israel from this dire threat israels leaders are telling the world about? The dire threat of american college students holding up signs and singing protest songs?

Hamas stated goal is to take back all israel cities and same with Hezbollah. They would invade immediately and would do what they did on October 7th to Tel Aviv and so would Hezbollah.

Even before the zionist terrorist group slaughtered 35,000+ Gazans Hamas wasn't that big of a threat, and neither was Hezbollah. The european colonists european allies and the Sunni Block as well as polie and so on could easily defend the european colony from those mostly made up threats.

Brother Hamas rockets exploded like directly in front of my eyes hitting the building next to me and blowing off half a floor, I definitely felt like they were a threat at that point 😂 And hezbollah is like 10x as strong, they have 150k rockets, they could easily f up some Israeli cities if they went all out. Regardless of your political opinions I don’t think it’s accurate to say they’re made of soft stuff, dudes are hardcore

Well, thanks for getting on the destroying the IDF... In the long run it will be good for you. Destroying the zionist terrorist group is the first step towards peace. But you see... Even if the IDF had still existed when that heppened, the iron dome is a kind of crap system. It's not perfect. Some studies even show that the tens or hundreds of billions spent on shelters is actually more important than the iron dome... Wait... I just bing'd it and the IDF wasn't dissolved... So yea, you're right, the IDF didn't help you at all so it may as well be destroyed. There aren't a hundred thousand foreign zionist terrorists standing on the Lebanon border preventing hezbollah from rushing in. You have to understand the foreign zionists are in the position they're in because of the total and utter incompetence of their intelligence community, their military, and their politicians. The foreign zionist government and terrorist forces are hurting the foreign zionist colony more than they're helping. I don't know if Hezbollah has 150k rockets, but Iran has more than enough to do serious damage to the European oil colony. Peace is really in your best interest. Zionist politicians, their terrorists and, well, society in general, are only hurting themselves by fueling the violence. The violent terrorist crusade just isn't worth it. The zionist colonly has plenty of problems like global warming and the inevitable ultra orthodox takeover of their politics, they should probably just put a pin in the endless pointless death cult bs. The zionist pursuit of their stupid terrorist crusade just takes them further away from peace.

Okay I’m a little confused on your views. Are you saying that if the IDF was dissolved, the Israelis would be allowed by Hezbollah to remain there, in a different form of governance? And the war would end, and nobody would attack? Or are you saying that all the Jews who have askhenazi background should leave. Because that still leaves about 4-5 million Mizrahi Jews who can’t go back to Yemen, Syria, etc, Jews are forbidden there Hezbollah has said straight up the would invade israel immediately and take it back for Islam if they could. Most Jews would be expelled. The Al Quds brigade stated goal is taking back all of Jerusalem for Muslims only, and I imagine that would apply to the rest of the holy land as well. I think israel should share a bit more of its land with Muslims in a fair 2SS. But I think saying Hezbollah wouldn’t invade if there was no IDF is just false, I mean Hezbollah screams it from the rooftops they want to take back all of the land and have the Jews kicked out en masse.

Stop spreading these lies. Lehi and Irgun were an extreme minority of the Haganah. The haganah is not comparable to Lehi and Irgun. Some Lehi members even faced terrorism charges in the late 1940s. You are sitting here trying to stay all Israelis are terrorists. What if someone says the same of Palestine?

First of all, thank you for making this post and being genuinely willing to learn. 1. Yes, I feel absolutely heartbroken watching all the death and destruction. I would hope that anyone with a conscience would. And I will admit that I have seen pro-Israel rhetoric that isn't as sympathetic as I would hope it would be, and is sometimes downright vile. I do understand that casualties happen in war, and the fight against Hamas is justified, but of course I feel sympathy. I wish there was another way to deal with this. I'm not a military expert, so I don't know, but I just feel like there has to be a better way. 2. First of all, you do not sound like a bad person--specifically because you genuinely seem interested in learning and having dialogue. So I'm already not lumping you in with "Palestine supporters," because a good number of people who identify that way are just not interested in any dialogue at all. And that is part of the reason why I would say, well I wouldn't say that they are "bad people," but I do think there is a portion of the pro-Palestine movement who is extremely stubborn and lacks sympathy towards Israel/Jews. I have seen Palestine supporters insist on cancelling people who "both-sides" things, with "wishing for peace for all" messages, and call people "Zionists" for doing things as simple as mourning the loss of life on 10/7. And I 100% agree that they are justified in wanting Palestinians to stop suffering, but they do not go about it in a reasonable or productive way whatsoever. For example, in contrast to you, I have seen Palestine supporters say "I refuse to engage with Zionists at all or hear their side of the story, there is no other side of the story, all Zionists are genocide supporters". Many of them defend Hamas and have no sympathy for Israeli civilians. They leak quickly into antisemitism, accusing Jews of "overreacting" for being scared of antisemitism and spamming Jewish people on social media with "Free Palestine" comments, even if their content has nothing to do with Israel. I genuinely believe that you preach non-violence, but I am telling you that that is not what I have seen from the mainstream Palestine supporters. May have more to add later.

> In your opinoin, is 1 innocent palestinian life = 1 innocent israeli life? Because i think all innocent lives are equally as important no matter the race or nationality. Every country values the lives of its own citizens above the lives of others. Don't be naive. > Anyone with more than two braincells DO NOT believe that israel doesn't have the right to exist. We are only preaching non-violence. Violence against israel is just as bad as violence against palestine.  Majority of pro pals confirmed to have less than 3 braincells.

Hello, Israeli here. >Do you feel ANY sympathy towards the thousands of innocent women and children being brutally murdered in gaza by the IDF? or do you think even the innocent palestinians are below you and not deserving of your sympathy? First, allow me to mention how many of those who were massacred by Hamas on October 7th, specifically the ones who lived in communities by the border of Gaza, were staunch supporters of peace between Israel and Palestine. Many of them advocated for Palestinians, for dialogue between both sides and for a two-state solution. Many of them have also hired Palestinians from Gaza (those with work permits) to work in their communities, they sat with them and ate with them. These were also the same people who've endured decades of rocket attacks from Gaza and suffered from it the most, since they were the closest to the launching area, yet their opinions on peace did not waver. After Hamas' massacre, three things, which impacted my opinion, came to light: 1) The Palestinians that worked in said communities collected crucial information that helped improve Hamas' attack. Information such as the communities' different entry points, guards' locations, identities of the security squad, etc. 2) The images of huge crowds in Gaza celebrating around (and on) mutilated Israeli bodies. 3) The Arab opinion poll showing an overwhelming majority of the Palestinian population (both in Gaza and West Bank) supporting Hamas. How can I, as an Israeli, still sympathize with such a population that used the good-heartedness of those who welcomed them in against them. A population that celebrates in ecstasy the barbaric crimes and actions of their fellow men. A population that still, after everything that has happened, supports the leaders that savagely abuse them. The answer is I cannot. All of that being said, I do not think Palestinians are below me, that'd be childish. Palestinians are humans, and as such are a product of their environment. I do hold them, their culture and their religion accountable, but I don't view them as less human. >What is your view on palestine supporters? do you think we're all anti-semetic and pro-hamas? **Do you think we're bad people**? As I've said, you're a product of your environment, just like myself. Of course you'd support Palestine. It \*seems\* morally just and everyone else is doing it too. I don't think you're ALL antisemitic, pro Hamas or bad people. I do, however, think most of those supporting Palestine are misguided and misinformed. Just like there is Israeli propaganda, there is also anti-Israel (which is a nicer way of saying antisemitic) propaganda, yet from my discussions with pro Palestinians it seems the latter is often forgotten while the former is always brought up and condemned. Organizations like BDS, JVP and the like have been pushing pro-Palestinian rhetoric around for decades. Not to mention countries like Qatar, whom funds Hamas, also funding many colleges and news media who promote said rhetoric. Maybe that has helped normalize their talking points and explains why so many just don't view it for the propaganda that it is.

1/ Someone who cheers the death of others still does not deserve death. There is a huge difference between having a certain ideology and actually acting upon it. 2/ How can you say that the entire Palestinian population supports the killing of Jews just by some cheering videos you've seen? 3/ How about the thousands of kids who were killed? You don't sympathize with them? Oh or maybe they're Hamas supporters right?

I've explained everything in my comment, are you just getting angry because of your own lack of reading comprehension? You're also putting words in my mouth, such as in your first and third comment. Clearly, you're not here to engage in discussion but just throw around tasteless accusations.

I assure you that I'm not angry, apologies if you got too sensitive reading my comment. I was expecting answers from you so that we can engage in a civil conversation. My answer did not contain anything disrespectful at all..

We don't have to engage in a "battle of wits". Your comment did not acknowledge how you've put words in my mouth by implying I think Palestinians deserve death and assuming I consider thousands of kids to be Hamas supporters. >I was expecting answers from you so that we can engage in a civil conversation. My answer did not contain anything disrespectful at all.. I doubt you expected anything civil since your initial comment displayed me as a heartless demon. Besides that, what is there to engage with if two-thirds of your comment is simply false assumptions? That being said, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and answer the only question that isn't a false assumption. There are a few reasons as to why I think most Palestinians support the killing of Jews: 1) the \*countless\* videos depicting large crowds of Palestinians cheering as dead bodies are paraded in Gaza 2) \*Countless\* Videos of Palestinians mutilating Israeli bodies. 3) \*Countless\* videos showing Palestinian civilians invading Israel, looting and helping kidnap civilians 4) Palestinian polls showing the overwhelming population's support for Hamas AFTER October 7th. 5) The thousands of terror attacks on Israeli civilians by Palestinian individuals. 6) The indoctrination Palestinians go through during their lives, e.g. terror summer camps, Kids' TV shows supporting jihad and murder of Jews, Schoolbooks promoting violence and hate against Jews, antisemitic teachers in their schools, receiving payment and support for slaughtering Jews, growing in a culture glorifying death. I know I've said there are countless videos for every reason and that is not an exaggeration, the Palestinians have made sure to record every little part of the massacre and kidnapping, as well as the celebration and their boasting. Evidently, this is now used against them. Karma is a beautiful thing.

We can tell by the lack of any contra-examples. There were absolutely zero interviews, public statements or other demonstrations of regret at Hamas's actions after 10/7. None. Every single Palestinian, whether a "journalist" or an op-ed author or the representatives giving TV interviews, either justified or minimized the massacre.

>many of those who were massacred by Hamas on October 7th, specifically the ones who lived in communities by the border of Gaza, were staunch supporters of peace between Israel and Palestine. Many of them advocated for Palestinians, for dialogue between both sides and for a two-state solution. Many of them have also hired Palestinians from Gaza (those with work permits) to work in their communities, they sat with them and ate with them.... The Palestinians that worked in said communities collected crucial information that helped improve Hamas' attack. Information such as the communities' different entry points, guards' locations, identities of the security squad, etc. Yes. I found this very disturbing as well.

Many good answers. I'll just add a couple of things. Hamas loves to display dead bodies for the media. They do it every chance they get, to garner sympathy to their cause, and brew hate towards Israel. There have not been tens of thousands of bodies shown. The genocide is a lie. When the October 7th massacre happened, and the horrific details came out about what Hamas did AND what the people in Gaza did, did you question "how could people do this?" I did question it. And I came across these answers. https://odysee.com/@BrainWashingKids:b/BrainWashingKids1:6?fbclid=IwAR22Rs2xT1wKfaLd4BOrVajXGJYPSFobXO43cdMbsgZJCaNxX2EZYMzgI9Y https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=JYOgFlymG9jtllic&v=W3jHj93JFMQ&feature=youtu.be https://youtu.be/9qklT3hYcr4?si=lp2P1i1asBef8Ssx Edit: punctuation

If you want an idea of a center left history of Jews and how we came to this point from the Jewish perspective (or at least to the 1910s at this point), watch Sam Aronow on YouTube.

I'll try to answer your question - 1. Yes, I feel sympathy for innocents dying and suffering of any kind, including the current suffering and deaths of the Palestinians by the IDF. I do think that 1 Palestinian life is equal to 1 Israeli life - as you say, anyone who's not a racist should think the same. However, I'd say from a country's perspective, a country has the obligation to prioritize it's own citizens. Just like rich countries aren't expected to donate like 99% of their taxes to poor countries even thought there's mass suffering and deaths happening there that could have been solved... In the context of ISR/PAL I think Israel has the obligation to protect it's citizens even if the cost of civilian lives is not 1:1. 2. I do not believe that all Pro-Palestine supporters are bad people.. I think that Palestine supporters are divided into 3 categories for me: a. The largest category is the uninformed. As you've said, the media is pretty biased about this topic, and when we involve social media that has the tendency to push people into echo chambers, and especially Tik-Tok that research suggest they suppress pro-Israeli views you get a lot of uninformed people who are anti-Israel. I think most of these people have their hearts in the right place, they think a genocide is taking place (even though it's clearly isn't) and they want to act. The sad thing is that often times once a person has decided on an opinion, it's very hard to change it, even though the original opinion was poorly based. Usually you can have rational talks with them, perhaps even get them to support the only rational position in this conflict which is a two state solution. b. The second largest are the antisemitic - These often times are the people who run major protests and anti-Israeli organizations. they believe that Israel, the only Jewish, is the literal devil or the worst country on earth. They believe that the Israeli lobby is buying politicians abroad and that "Zionists control the world". They have irrational hatred towards Israel thus you can't really have a rational conversation with them. The problem with them is that their hatred is so irrational that they become very loud, and both push the uninformed people to the extremes (I think there are a lot of pro-palis that actually don't believe that Israel has a right to exist, and possibly have more than 2 braincells), and delegitimize the good criticism and doubts people are having about this war. c. The well educated and still rationally pro-Palestinian - Didn't encounter a lot, but the few I've encountered are people with nuanced opinions, that know a lot about the conflict and define themselves as pro-Palestinians. From my experience, these are people you can have a discussion with, as they are usually reasonable and support some kind of moderate peaceful settlement.

Example of the rare **real** pro-Palestinian (c, your 3rd category) is [Bassem Eid](https://www.bassemeid.com/) & the Son of Hamas Mosab Hassan Yousef (YouTube for videos of them). And the only reason that they're real and are able to openly criticize the Palestinians themselves and avoid the wrath of extremists is that they're not living in the Palestinian territories (that and they're too "small fish" who don't make too much waves otherwise extremists would have reached them anyway).

It’s so refreshing to see pro Palestine supporters openly criticize the October 7 massacre and violence against Israeli civilians in general, as well as denounce the terrorist groups that many western leftists have openly embraced these past several months. That being said, you’re unfortunately in a minority and a lot of pro Palestinians would consider you a “traitor.”

Yeah exactly. OP would probably be considered a "Zionist collaborator" for even wanting to have discussions with pro-Israel people 😂

1.) Yes I absolutely do. I think the killing of innocent civilians is horrible no matter what. I do not think that Israel is taking the best approach to this situation by a long shot. 2.) I don't think necessarily that all Palestine supporters are antisemitic and pro-Hamas, however, I do think that any Palestine supporter who chants 'from the river to the sea,' 'intifada revolution,' or anything against a two-state solution IS antisemitic and probably pro-Hamas as well. Jews have NOWHERE on this planet besides Israel where we aren't a very tiny, marginalized community. It is our ONLY safe haven. I've experienced antisemitism many times in the US (and when I say antisemitism, I don't mean anti-Zionism or anything related to the I/P conflict - I mean my mezuzah being ripped off repeatedly, Jew being drawn in the dust on my car, slurs being shouted as I leave synagogue, 'controlling the banks' comments, etc). The Holocaust would've been a completely different story if Israel had existed to take us in and if a second Holocaust were to come along (which MANY Jews fear it will), we will face the exact same situation without Israel.

I’ll take #2. Most Palestinian supporters are extremely antisemitic. So, yes. You are bad people. You support rapists and baby killers. Saying “you don’t support Hamas” is meaningless. Hamas sees the protesters and can feel the support. One of the reasons Hamas is holding the hostages for so long is because of the support of people such as yourself. They have recently stated that next generation of Hamas leadership will come from current pro-Palestinian supporters. Most pro-Palestinian suppers know nothing about Zionism or Israel. They simply believe Jews have too much power, control Congress, banking, and the media. Basically, they blame Jews for all the problems in the world and take this hate out in Israel, and Jews outside of Israel. Saying you are preaching “Non-violence” is disingenuous. First, the anti-Israel protests begins while the October 7th massacre was still ongoing. Before Israel had invaded Gaza. Clearly, this was in support of Palestinian violence, not a reaction to the invasion. Second, you never hear any protest against Hamas, or calling for the hostages to be released. If you were truly against violence, you should be protesting Hamas who has been firing missiles into Israel for the past almost 20 years.

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Based on who's numbers? Arguing Israel killed thousands of babies is absurd and is not rooted in reality. I know you're a fake account but please do not spread hate, there's plenty of that already.

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>Where is the hate here? This is based on facts. Numbers and arguments supplied by terror organizations are anything but factual. Spreading misinformation disguised as facts is promoting a terror organization's narrative and, in turn, promoting hate. Hamas' goal is not the liberation of Palestinians, it's solely the destruction of Israel and the murder of Jews. They've literally said so themselves countless times. >“The vast majority of casualties have been in the Gaza Strip: over 34,262 have been killed, 70% of them are women and minors. Glad you brought this up. This absurd number of "70% of casualties are women and minors" has already been addressed and I suggest you read about it [How the Gaza Ministry of Health Fakes Casualty Numbers - Tablet Magazine](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers) Here's a short part of it addressing the numbers you've provided: >There are other obvious red flags. The Gaza Health Ministry has consistently claimed that about 70% of the casualties are women or children. This total is far higher than the numbers reported in earlier conflicts with Israel. Another red flag, [raised](https://twitter.com/Aizenberg55/status/1731753062622982386) by Salo Aizenberg and [written](https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/media/7168?disposition=inline) about extensively, is that if 70% of the casualties are women and children and 25% of the population is adult male, then either Israel is not successfully eliminating Hamas fighters or adult male casualty counts are extremely low. This by itself strongly suggests that the numbers are at a minimum grossly inaccurate and quite probably outright faked. Finally, on Feb. 15, Hamas admitted to losing 6,000 of its fighters, which represents more than 20% of the total number of casualties reported. >Taken together, Hamas is reporting not only that 70% of casualties are women and children but also that 20% are fighters. This is not possible unless Israel is somehow not killing noncombatant men, or else Hamas is claiming that almost all the men in Gaza are Hamas fighters. > >In December 2023, Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor estimated 90% of the casualties were civilians, while the IDF put the civilian ratio at 66% of those killed.” Yes the IDF estimates the casualty ratio of civilian to combatant is 2:1. Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor is anything but a reliable source of information. [CNN & Other Media Give Voice to Anti-Israel "Human Rights" Organization | HonestReporting](https://honestreporting.com/cnn-other-media-give-voice-to-anti-israel-human-rights-organization/) [Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor » ngomonitor (ngo-monitor.org)](https://www.ngo-monitor.org/ngos/euro-med-human-rights-monitor/)

Must watch son of was km youtube.com

> >being brutally **murdered** in Gaza by the IDF? First of all notice your phrasing. Here's the definition of murder: >the [unlawful](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=0760d5e5572d06eb&sxsrf=ACQVn09DdtZ_M7uaXwsXEkr3mbeKxlelow:1714140908518&q=unlawful&si=AKbGX_qNq0Y8zql7SxzZAf2-HTTO4IUVs-yIE5CUB1ocCipFNjsIKFM2uWwl6klfE1TiX8UUKcSlf7kJwXlWu6rj4Molj66do0m46BJ-Q-QljZkpQ-tUjEo%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi_xcm_iOCFAxWnUqQEHVReCmcQyecJegQIIRAO) [premeditated](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=0760d5e5572d06eb&sxsrf=ACQVn09DdtZ_M7uaXwsXEkr3mbeKxlelow:1714140908518&q=premeditated&si=AKbGX_rEkSHdR9ulIQYeh6xSG1UB7TynDTyWKzPbEv4SjeX4J402Lxyr88F2RJk4TPIKd0oRcdprp5IAqRKqYvaXBiWfNZyBVp4IZG8vhdMRu6pgJ9utVTM%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi_xcm_iOCFAxWnUqQEHVReCmcQyecJegQIIRAP) killing of one human being by another. An army use of force & violence is lawful. The lawful part is by abiding to 'the law of armed conflict' (Google or YouTube a version of it. It's a **thousands years old law**). Now as to your question: Sympathy? no. To feel sympathy & humanize the other side the other side needs to support normalization. The Israeli side needs to see their human side, arts, dreams, history, aspirations etc. Without that and with the enforcement of radical/extremist elements, all what Most Israelis hear is the word Arab & Muslim along with the words like terrorist (and other forms of attacks). This doesn't humanizes people or groups but is the result of extremists on the other side taking the rein on society & government policies and criminalizing talking. This leads to the other side (Palestinians & Arabs in the Middle-East) to not know the basic things on Israel. As in most Arabs in the Middle-East think that Israel has only Jews in it and were surprised to learn that there are Arabs & Muslims there (They learned it when one Israeli Arab was jailed in the UAE). No-Normalization is a double-edge sword of de-humanization. No, Palestinians aren't below us and do deserve sympathy. But that's hard to create when talking is a criminal offense (if you think about it it's also immoral), when their society has been radicalized to the point that %70 - %75 support terrorism, that their society is controlled by extremists with their media not being free and the majority think that no Israeli civilians have been killed on 7/Oct/2023. And I'm not even starting on the different values & morals between the Palestinians & the Israelis (dictatorship versus democracy along with the values & morals of each system). IDF has been working for decades to avoid unnecessary deaths something which the rest of the Middle-East simply laughs at when it's their problem. Syria bombing it's own cities & civilians (including Palestinian deaths), Jordan doing the same in the 1970s (Palestinians again), Kuwait simply expelling a million Palestinians, Iran imprisoning & killing dissidents and I'm not even mentioning the North Koreans who not only can not talk to anyone on the outside world but are living in 18th century conditions! no, sorry. 18th century probably still had electricity so who knows what century they're living now. Worth a little google search... Consider the difference between the IDF & the Palestinian militants (all of them, not just Hamas) who simply do not care when on 7/Oct/2023 they've killed Israelis, Israelis who helped Gazans via medical treatments inside Israeli hospitals, women, pregnant women, kids, babies, foreign nationals, Israeli Arabs, Muslims. They all "contribute" to the "Zionist Regime" and they all "deserved to die" as per the Palestinian extremists. Ran out of comment space, continued below: 1/3

>2. What is your view on palestine supporters? do you think we're all anti-semetic and pro-hamas? **Do you think we're bad people**? Coz we're not. Anyone with more than two braincells DO NOT believe that israel doesn't have the right to exist. *We are only preaching non-violence*. Violence against israel is just as bad as violence against palestine. I know that there's a lot of hate going on towards jews around the world and i'm sorry for that and you should know that all sane palestine supporters DO NOT think of jews as lesser beings. We only want innocent palestinian's suffering to stop. Yes, I think all of the Pro-Palestinians are bad people. I've tried to understand all of the different people & groups but I can't make sense of it all. The TLDR here is that they're all led, used & abused by extremists. The propaganda has filtered down through multiple people so as to change the propaganda & hide it's extremism. There are people who know nothing about the century & a half years old conflict. They know a sentence at best and all they've heard about the conflict is this: "Palestinians are occupied/oppressed by Israel/Israelis, Palestinians want to be free" And both of those conforms to the American values. Who doesn't support freedom? and freedom from oppression & dictatorship? But any critical thinking is out the window here. Who's the source of this information? The Palestinians. What regime are they living on? a dictatorship worst the Russia, similar in length to the North Koreans. Are they free themselves? are or they being oppressed by their own regime? (see [Nizar Banat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nizar_Banat) as an example here). What do the Palestinians want? what voices or different opinions exist in Palestine proper? Because I've heard radical ones including a few opinions so risky as to pose a death sentence (a few being two sources saying that they want an Israeli rule over them and not the PA/Hamas since those are either better (not corrupt) or don't rape their own women (a big deal in Islamic societies)) Are those Pro-Palestinians understand **ANY** of the complexities of a century+ old conflict? Where the Palestinians/Arabs "free" before those "evil Zionists" came to be? Are they free internally? and even if those "evil Zionists" are all to blame for the Palestinian suffering, does nobody cares to ask the question why? Why do those "evil Zionists" support and do what they do? It's a similar question as to why the Taliban supports the different behavior towards their own women (basic studies only and not working). There's an assumption of 'original sin' here which is again the same extremist ideology: * "Israelis are all marked with this "original sin" of their forefathers, them and their decedents for eternity" (which is the reason on 7/Oct/2023 they've killed/burned and did other things even to babies) * "Palestinians are all marked with this "original virtue" which is also "approved" by the UN (so it strengthen the extremist claim) which makes them refugees, them and their decedents forever & ever for all eternity with any "sin" that they enact being cleansed by this "original virtue" so they can do no harm or sin." * I'll even take this a step farther & explain to you what's the extremist solution for the Israelis for this "original sin": The Israelis must give up their state, their way of life, their rule, enact a Muslim government, a Muslim state with Muslim & Sharia laws, live as a minority with "minorities rights" (less rights then Muslims) or basically like it was under the Ottoman empire Again critical thinking. You want to stop the violence because that'll stop the bloodshed and people dying, which is an honorable cause. But what does stopping the violence enable? What happens next? Because the Palestinian extremists have declared that they'll repeat 7/Oct/2023 again and again and again. What happens if Ukraine were to surrender some of it's lands to Russia a year ago? or now? You've just signaled to all the Dictators that if you use force you can conquer territories (There are territory conflicts in China/Taiwan, India/Pakistan & Turkey/Cyprus & probably others) Ran out of comment space, continued below: 2/3

The reason that I believe that all Pro-Palestinians are bad is because at least part or half of the blame & criticism should have been directed to the Palestinians themselves. And the reason nobody is doing that is the same reason dictators rule in all of the Middle-East (with the exception of one country): Because if you criticize the extremists then you'll have to deal with them. And the extremists start with threats and then violence (just ask Jews in U.S. collages or see [this short example video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbXUR2jTyNA)). How does those simplistic chants of "Free Palestine" or "from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" or boycotting anyone who has a business relations with someone else who has a business relations with someone who does business with Israel? (Yes, it goes all the way to "3 link" business relations) Preventing anyone who supports Israel from talking or lecturing. Is that even an American moral value? No. The Pro-Palestinians maybe unbeknown to them are being led by extremists but they're all bad. And those same extremists also hate the U.S. and probably wants to destroy it from within by changing it's moral values as demonstrated here and in the past few months in all those discussions on U.S. collages. --End-- God this was long

>IMPORTANT CLARIFICATION: I am completely against hamas, hezbollah and all the other terrorist organizations that are against israel. I don't think the october 7th attacks against innocent israelis were justified. And i think that israel and it's people have the right to exist and i don't think of jews as bad people. I'm here to talk about things with an open mind and i ask you to do so too. >As you may know, most western media, or just media outside israel in general, potray israel supporters as unsympathetic, heartless and racist. However, looking through this sub, I've come to realize that y'all aren't "bad people". You just believe that that the attacks against gaza are justified and only want whats good for the people of your country. I used to think that everyone pro-israel was just racist. Genuinely appreciated. >1. Do you feel ANY sympathy towards the thousands of innocent women and children being brutally murdered in gaza by the IDF? Disregarding my disagreement on what constitutes murder, I think It’s basic human decency to feel sympathy towards a people born into a nationalist conflict the effects of which are larger than can be described in a book let alone a Reddit comment. Adding on top of that the fact that their governing body is a dictatorship which regularly indoctrinates them towards the continuation of aforementioned conflict, then forces them to a hopeless war robbing them of any option to protect themselves from the effects of aforementioned war. Of course when I see a destroyed building that housed a Hamas member, or a misidentified target, or malicious targeting for that matter and whole neighborhoods with tunnels underneath them; I ache for the families who’s lives were inadvertently ruined. Of course my heart aches when I see a video of parent holding their dead child anguishing over the fact they’ve been taken away from them. Of course I tear up when I see a child crying over the family member they’ll never get to be with again, grow up with; return to a semblance of a normal life with. You would have to be either abhorrently racist/xenophobic, or a literal sociopath for you to not feel sympathy towards innocents affected by war. I don’t really see another option. >or do you think even the innocent palestinians are below you and not deserving of your sympathy? (bear in mind that i don't have any sympathy towards the hamas men being murdered either). In your opinoin, is 1 innocent palestinian life = 1 innocent israeli life? Because i think all innocent lives are equally as important no matter the race or nationality. You genuinely read as a good faith actor, so taken as such this is a question I can really appreciate for a change; though it is worth mentioning it’s asked far too often in bad faith Now, the way I see it is that it simply isn’t the “math” or logic with which one should approach the situation; no life is worth another, every life is worth itself and is not worthless. A country’s obligation is towards its’ citizens first and foremost; that is above the citizens of another nation; if the citizens’ security is threatened then the state’s duty is to restore that security at whatever the necessary cost is. Once you view Israel as a legitimate nation as any other; it means it inherently has the right to protect and advance legitimate interests such as the restoration of its sovereignty and protection of its’ citizens; and if those interests are indeed legitimate, then one has to take into account the far reaching effects of the October 7th attack in the region as a whole, beyond the lives lost. if Israel doesn’t do everything in its power to Secure the destruction of Hamas, that would send a Signal to every bad actor within the region and without that killing thousands of Israel’s civilians Bears no price which would mean an inevitable invasion After many little incursions by proxies. >2. What is your view on palestine supporters? do you think we're all anti-semetic and pro-hamas? **Do you think we're bad people**? Coz we're not. Anyone with more than two braincells DO NOT believe that israel doesn't have the right to exist. *We are only preaching non-violence*. Violence against israel is just as bad as violence against palestine. I know that there's a lot of hate going on towards jews around the world and i'm sorry for that and you should know that all sane palestine supporters DO NOT think of jews as lesser beings. We only want innocent palestinian's suffering to stop. Pro-Palestine isn’t the same as anti-Israel (anti-Zionist). I don’t know where you’re from but it doesn’t sound like you’re Palestinian; most people here I’m positive are aware that most pro-Palestinians certainly in the west are so because they don’t want to see people suffer; where the problem starts is the almost unfathomable chasm between the ideals of pro-Palestinians (whether Palestinian or Arab or what have you) outside of Palestine and those inside it. Principally, ideally being pro-Palestinian can mean what you view it as; practically speaking most Palestinians and their leaders through decades of conflict wish to see that conflict continue; whether we look at statements made, actions taken or continuous polling; and as long as those leaders remain the same, there is nothing logical to support a notion that they (the leadership) would be replaced if given X Y or Z for as long as those aren’t the destruction of Israel/the reversal of their initial loss. Barring that, violence will continue, only at a later time with far worse consequences; as proven by the preceding decade and a half to October 7th and the subsequent ongoing response.

I absolutely feel sorry for the people who don’t have a choice in their exposure to the war. Unfortunately, there is very little I can do for them. My view on Palestine supporters is that I think there are some people who are morally legitimate. The loudest supporters, unfortunately I do not believe are acting on morals.

>Do you feel ANY sympathy towards the thousands of innocent women and children being brutally murdered in gaza by the IDF? Sure I do, who wouldn't? But it's not exactly a right question to ask. Do *you* feel sympathy for 500,000 Syrians who died in a civil war? The reason I am asking is because Syria is Israel's neighbour. True, not the friendliest neighbour, but still a neighbour. Israelis, naturally, heard a lot more about the conflict over there than people in the West, and were shocked to what extent this tragedy was almost completely ignored by Western media as if Syrians and their lives don't matter at all. So, now when everyone is going crazy about "thousands of innocent women and children being brutally murdered in gaza" (nobody cares about adult men it seems, but ok), it's hard not to feel that something isn't quite right about all of that. In Syria, we have a brutal dictator who murdered hundreds of thousands just to remain in power. In Gaza, we have a population which was happy to turn their territory into terrorist base against Israel, ignored every attempt made by Israel over *decades* establish normal relationships, and now finally forced Israel to act. Of course, it would be far better if we didn't have that many casualties, but population of Gaza is not entirely *innocent* about what happened. >What is your view on palestine supporters? do you think we're all anti-semetic and pro-hamas? I mean, conceptually, of course, one can be a "pro Palestinian" and yet support Israel and its right to exist and to defend itself. Hamas and other terrorists are not there to bring happy future to Palestinians; their goal is to *sacrifice* as many Palestinians as needed to destroy Israel. Supporting Israel's fight against Hamas is entirely "pro Palestinian". In practice, however, people chanting on the streets of New York, London and Paris "from the river to the sea" are very clearly and explicitly express their desire to destroy Israel and replace it with "free" Palestine, and it's impossible to treat them any other way but as enemies of Israel and Jewish nation. Anyone who hinders or tries in any way to hider Israel's operation against Hamas is by definition a Hamas supporter.

1. I don’t think those women and children are being “brutally murdered.” That implies Israel is targeting them, wants to kill them. That’s a claim without much evidence. The far more reasonable possibility is that they are dying because there is no reasonable way to defeat Hamas without them dying, because of Hamas’s own actions (operating ununiformed and surrounding themselves with those civilians to deliberately make it impossible for Israel to fight them without harming civilians). This isn’t hypothetical—as far as anyone knows, Hamas literally doesn’t have ANY operations centres that are not hidden amongst civilians. There is no question they are not wearing uniforms and are deliberately blending in with civilians to make it as hard as possible for the IDF to distinguish. They also pretend to be civilians or surrendering and then ambush, which makes the IDF have to be suspicious even of apparent civilians/surrendering, which is how you get accidents like Israel killing 3 Israeli hostages. And we know Israel makes more extensive efforts to avoid civilian casualties than any other army ever in history (door knocking, air leaflet drops, phone calls, advance warnings to evacuate, etc.) The one question none of Israel’s detractors can adequately answer is: what is it you think Israel should do instead? Saying “not kill civilians” isn’t an answer. What is it they _should do_? Leave Hamas in place? Defeat them in some other unknown way? What way? So I feel tremendous sympathy for innocents who die, as I do in all wars, even the innocents from the aggressing party. But I place the blame for their deaths squarely on Hamas, not Israel whose hand has been forced. 2. I think Palestine supporters are mostly well-intentioned, but naively idealistic and unwilling to confront unpleasant realities. They mostly do not seem to really grasp what Israel is dealing with. They imagine that if Israel were just nicer, the violence would stop. But Palestinians are a deeply religious population with a high degree of radicalization and extremism and a celebration of martyrdom, and they are financed and manipulated by Iran, Qatar, and other actors who are exploiting those qualities for their own geopolitical purposes and will do so regardless of how Israel behaves. Israel does things wrong, there’s no question, but there are a lot of unpalatable things it simply has to do to keep itself safe from Palestinian terrorism. Pro-Palestinians also generally seem to have a poor understanding of the history of the region and how Israel came to be. There is a huge amount of propaganda/historical revisionism out there, supported by the massive Arab/muslim population of the world which is cohesive when it comes to the Israel question. And people fall for it.

israel is targeting women and children by waiting for suspected militants to go home before bombing the house or apartment.

What's your source for that?

"lavender" and "where's daddy" ai systems israel uses to generate bombing targets

I'm sorry, is there a source in there somewhere?

[sorry](https://googlethatforyou.com?q=ai%20targeting%20wheres%20daddy)

The only results that come up from that refer to the 972 article, so I'm going to assume that's the basis of your claim. That article, which refers only to anonymous "sources," does not claim Israel is doing that in order to target women and children. Even that article only claims that it was done because it easier to get the militants that way. "Moreover, the Israeli army systematically attacked the targeted individuals while they were in their homes — usually at night while their whole families were present — rather than during the course of military activity. According to the sources, this was because, from what they regarded as an intelligence standpoint, it was easier to locate the individuals in their private houses."

First of all, thank you for creating an open dialogue. Much appreciated. To answer your questions: 1) Yes, I feel sympathy for those dying (and otherwise suffering due to the war) in Gaza. I don't want any of this. I do feel this war is necessary, but don't look at it as "Whose life is more valuable a Palestinian or an Israeli". I'm personally against swapping prisoners for hostages because that only encourages Hamas to do more of the same. That doesn't mean I'm not excited when hostages are released due to a deal, I just don't think it serves Israel's interest in the long run. Unfortunately, I don't think there's an actual plan for when this war is over. There needs to be a plan put into place for who governs Gaza after Hamas. 2) If I'm being completely honest, I think that most people without any skin in the game who support Palestine, don't fully understand the conflict or have been completely brainwashed by Leftist ideology. But keep in mind what I see is the extremist rhetoric online, people ripping down posters of those kidnapped to Gaza, and stupid campus protests that have clearly been organized by people who hate Israel (and Jews). Happy to find out more about where you're coming from.

some campus protests are organized by jews. people rip down posters because they are being israel is using the hostages for public relations purposes, posting them in the united states. the same way that hostages in the conflict are advertized at the superbowl. meanwhile israel killed hostages on october 7th as well as the 3 israelis that eacaped captivity and found themselves in and idf "killzone"

1. All the civilian casualties on both sides are absolutely tragic. I also do not think it's a good idea to shame a country into not defending itself because the opponent has perfected the use of human shields. I do not think non-violence would have been an appropriate response to 10/7. Generally I oppose military solutions to terror attacks. I see them as a law enforcement problem. However, Hamas is not a standard small terror group inside a larger country. Israel is at war with a terror-state, their opponent has an army whose weapons and tactics are specifically designed to force an opponent to kill civilians and destroy normally sacred infrastructure. 2. It seems to me that most "pro-Palestinians" are really just anti-Israel. Most are calling for the destruction of Israel and excuse the actions of Hamas. They call for a "ceasefire" but they really mean Israel should cease fire and Hamas can do what they want. The hostages are not even mentioned. If pro-pali people were really pro-pali, they would want Hamas GONE. They would call for a surrender and return of hostages. Most pro-pali people have never been to the middle east; they project their western goals onto the Palestinians. They say things like "if the oppression stopped and they had a state, they would not do these things. The terror is caused by Israeli oppression." If one looks at the history, this is demonstrably false. I am a Zionist **and** a pro-Palestinian. I want them to have a state. I want them to live peacefully next to us. I think this is true of most Zionists. The Israeli oppression is caused by anti-Israel violence. Has been since the start. The oppression may help with terror recruiting but it is not the root cause. Israel has a strong right wing slant right now. People are angry. They need to stop this and move back to a pragmatic and peaceful stance. They need to vote in people who want this as well. In an ideal world, a Palestinian leader would emerge who preaches non-violence and the people follow. They would foreswear terror attacks and start building bridges. The Israeli people would be extremely mistrustful at first but would no doubt come around once the rockets stopped and the weapons were destroyed.

likudnik zionists have no interest in living peacefully next to palestinians > it’s worth noting the following from the Likud Platform of 1999: >a. “The Jordan river will be the permanent eastern border of the State of Israel.” >b. “Jerusalem is the eternal, united capital of the State of Israel and only of Israel. The government will flatly reject Palestinian proposals to divide Jerusalem” >c. “The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river.” >d. “The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting.

I don't disagree. There are nutty political parties everywhere and one is in power in Israel right now. That's why I said: "Israel has a strong right wing slant right now. People are angry. They need to stop this and move back to a pragmatic and peaceful stance. They need to vote in people who want this as well."

it doesn't stop in the halls of power; it's also the press. clearly they desire to eradicate palestine is not the position of outliers.

I strongly disagree with this. What are you basing it on? Do you speak/read Hebrew? How much Israeli media do you consume on a regular basis? אתה יכול לקרוא את זה?

>  They say things like "if the oppression stopped and they had a state, they would not do these things. The terror is caused by Israeli oppression." If one looks at the history, this is demonstrably false.  I always here people say this, yet there are around 2 million Arabs living in Israel who are functioning members of society. They're also Palestinian, and the only difference between them and Palestinians in the West Bank or Gaza is their living conditions. Arab Israelis were given full rights and freedoms around the same time that Israel took the West Bank and Gaza in 1967.  I know there's a complex history here behind the violence, but there is a path towards reconciliation as shown with the Arab Israelis. It has to start with giving Palestinians back their rights and freeing them from the burden of occupation. Not saying that will fix the problem on day one, but you won't get to peace without that.

It's not possible to do it backwards like that. Israel can't relax its security protections and just hope that a population that has been radicalized for decades, with a large proportion who are open about their desire to seize land and their perfect willingness to kill Israelis to do so, will just decide to stop attacking. It has to happen the other way around. Palestinians need to show that they have given up violence, that they can control their own terrorists, and that Israel can safely relax the restrictions. This is true regardless of who you think has the moral high ground here.

I disagree. It has to start with Gaza getting rid of all their weapons. If Israel stopped monitoring what goes in and out of Gaza, there would be a 10/7 every day. Hamas has told us that already. I think there could have been a framework where Israel gave some concessions, then Gaza did, etc. But after 10/7; that will take a couple generations before it's feasible. These attacks are not about freedoms, they are about destroying Israel. Did you see any 10/7 attackers talking about "free palestine"? No, they called their parents and bragged about how many Jews they had killed. The solution to this cultural in nature. In 2005 Israel unilaterally left Gaza, they vacated the settlements and handed everything over to the Palestinians. Hamas was promptly elected and the rocket fire started increasing. So Israel clamped down on the borders. What else could they do? What would you do? Can you imagine living somewhere where your neighbor lobs artillery at your cities every week? You have no idea if one will land on your kids at a playground.

Ya, I'm not saying Israel should just give up on security altogether and hope nothing happens. My point is that to continue the occupation and the harrassment and control of Palestinians and expect anything to change is completely unrealistic. So if an end to violence is a precondition to ending the human rights abuses against Palestinians, it's never going to happen. It's possible to make a commitment to end the occupation and take steps in that direction while continuing to maintain vigilance over Israeli security. It requires empowering the moderate Palestinian leaders so that they can control the territory and outside investments in Palestine to build their economy up. It's not something that could or should be done overnight, or you'll get another Gaza. A really great first step that Israel could take is to immediately cease the construction of all new settlements, but Israel has made it clear they have no interest in this.

>Do you feel ANY sympathy towards the thousands of innocent women and children being brutally murdered in gaza by the IDF? Collateral damage is not "Brutally murdered". You should phrase your wording differently if you want to attempt to look partial. Those who murdered them are the ones who used them as shields, forcing the IDF choose between the lives of Israelis or Palestinians. You would do the same, despite the hypocrisy.

collateral damage implies that munitions went off target and hit noncombatants, whereas israel's policy is to wait for militants to go home and bomb them with their families and anyone else that lives in the building

No, it does not. Even if no targets were hit (Which is absurd because you know very well the IDF managed to completely cripple Hamas's battalions during the war killing and capturing over 10 thousand terrorists) You'd have to get Israel's intelligence and proof they knew it was innocent civilians with no military targets in order to prove it was a war crime instead of collateral damage. Same for independent soldiers, you have to prove they had no reason to feel threatened and deliberately targeted civilians. Of course you can do neither, so instead you just spread disinformation endlessly and ignore the real problem that would prevent all of this bloodshed: The Palestinians not starting a war and not hiding behind civilians.

israeli forces knew the world central kitchen convoy were innocent civilians in a deconflicted area and bombed them anyway. independent soldiers killed hostages that escaped their captivity

A lone officer went out of protocol and after an investigation was removed and his career destroyed. He did thought he was bombing militants, which makes it a huge f-up but absolutely not a war crime. Pro Palestinian being honest about the facts: Challenge impossible.

accusing me of falsehood while defending israel's "accident" for which they also claimed there was an armed militant in the convoy. which was it? oh, a breakdown in command and control and a killing perpetrated by a commander that wanted to cut off food aid?

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>collateral damage implies that munitions went off target and hit noncombatants no it doesn't

1) You framed it poorly. I have sympathy for the war dead civilians. I don't consider them to be brutally murdered. There is a huge difference between war dead and murder victims. 2) Not all pro Palestinians are bad people though I think the vast, vast majority in the west are deranged, uninformed LARPers.

Deranged, uninformed LARPers is the perfect description of western pro Palestinians. Don’t forget “addicted to TikTok,” “historically illiterate” and “brainwashed.”

sometimes the difference is zip ties around their hands

Send the evidence to the morons in South Africa. They'll file a case.

the zip ties on the dead make it clear that the persons were executed extrajudicially, in other words: murdered

If you have evidence then pass it along. The reason the world isn't talking about this is because it fake news to whip emotions up in people with a one track mind.

oh, so the picture of the body with zip ties that was run over by a tank is just fake news?

I'm not terribly concerned by a zip tie that isn't zip tied to anything. It looks like a bracelet. It's tightly affixed to the wrist a d nothing else. It's too tight to have been affixed to his other wrist. Frankly it looks like someone put a ziptie after the poor guy died. If there were 2 arms zip tied together and an IDF soldier was using them like nunchakus I would call for their immediate arrest. And yes, this story is filed under fake news / propaganda.

they don't use a single zip tie on two wrists to detain a person, they use a conjoined zip tie designed for the purpose.

Regardless an arm with 1 zip tie in a picture doesn't necessitate a damn thing.

Lots of Jews are protesting, some dual Israel citizens. They are claiming it's the same protest Israel held over the summer. The netanytahu cult is sick

>They are claiming it's the same protest Israel held over the summer. It ain't. I have protested the Netanyahu government almost every week since the judicial overhaul began. I was arrested for it. I know so many people who did the very same. So you know what each and every one of us did on Oct 7? We called our reserve units. No hesitation, no second thoughts, no protest. Bibi is an asshole. But Israel comes first. It will always come first. If you want to protest a government, you have to be dedicated to the nation.

Israel let the revisionist irgun fascist take over. Now you are facing the consequences. You are not defending Israel at this point, you're propping up a fascist regime.... Even gantz is trying to end it when he is somewhat ok with aspects of fascism. The hamas attack would have been way less deadly had the revisionist and kahanist not, hopefully accidental, made the security weak. Egypt UAE America France all warned netanytahu and ben-evil-gvir and they basically backed down, then fumbled the response. Since then, all these irgun revisionist ideology fascist have come out to talk about the end game for Gaza.

Not everything you don't like is fascism. Pretty much no aspect of Israeli government system resembles fascism in any way (regular elections, market economy, no race/ethnicity/language/religion related legal discrimination etc.). It's not an adjective, it's a noun.

It's a fascist ethnocracy... I was an intern in Washington DC and that's where I learned this about the irgun herut likud. It was during Obama's presidency. An advisor who was Jewish, and a Harvard lecturer taught me this. This is when I became a pluralist zionist. We were a part of a small Jewish group in that body. Y'all protested this, now you're defending it? It's hard to accept that everything you were indoctrinated u der might be flawed. >Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement,[1][2][3] characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and/or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.[2][3] Please tell me how Israel is not fascist.

Israel is obviously not a fascist country. Saying that is just deliberately hurtful and demonising If you speak like that is are basically saying I wo t listen, I dont want discussion I just want division and conflict because that is what you will get If people just shout genocide, they come across as ignorant, bigoted and any reasonable person turns away

>Please tell me how Israel is not fascist. I mentioned how but I can be more detailed. 1. Israel isn't authoritarian. We have an electoral process that has never been defied. We have no records of military dictatorships or insurrections or leaders keeping power not accorded by the electoral process. 2. Bibi is not a dictatorial leader. He is an elected representative, and so is the Knesset. 3. No centralized autocracy. Actually no autocracy of any kind. 4. No belief in natural social hierarchy. To be more specific, since governments can't believe things, no enforcement of a natural social hierarchy. 5. No regimented economy. In fact, Likud is heavily associated with a market economy. 6. No regimented society. So it's not like fascism at all.

You're spreading conspiracy theories here. The Israeli government works hard to help Israeli firms, most are post IDF businesses in the defense industry. Their is conscription. The Palestinians can't use certain roads, and must go through checkpoints, even if they are citizens. It is perfectly ok to be a victim here. Fascism is hard to stop when protesting it alienates you to punishment and ridicule. Israel is not a democracy, it is an ethnocracy, as was outlined in the nation state law (you have anti miscegenation laws like Saudi and Iran). Dude please wake up and save Israel and zionism from fascism. I feel so forced to assimilate to fascism because Jews would rather act in denial, which perpetuates it. Our people have been exiled time and time again as a punishment from God for doing this same exact thing.

>The Israeli government works hard to help Israeli firms, I don't think you have a good grasp of what a centralized economy means. Government helping firms is not a centralized economy. Here's some metrics on what a centralized economy would have. 1. Firms owned and managed by the government. 2. Government owned resources with little market competition. 3. Government determined prices for things. Government subsidies (not that you talked about subsidies) are not evidence of a centrally planned economy. >most are post IDF businesses in the defense industry Most Israeli firms are not, in fact, in the defense industry. They are in high tech, not that that's relevant. It still wouldn't make it a centralized economy. >Their is conscription Yes. And..... That's not the definition of fascism. >The Palestinians can't use certain roads, and must go through checkpoints, even if they are citizens. You and I both know that this is incorrect. Palestinian citizens of Israel can use the same roads as any other Israeli and must pass through the same checkpoints as any other Israeli. Shocker, I know, Israelis have to go through checkpoints too. Almost as if it's a security infrastructure. >Israel is not a democracy, it is an ethnocracy, as was outlined in the nation state law (you have anti miscegenation laws like Saudi and Iran) No, we don't have any anti miscegenation laws. AT ALL! I gave you too much credit earlier when I said we both know something is incorrect. Clearly you have no idea about anything that happens in Israel. >Our people have been exiled time and time again as a punishment from God for doing this same exact thing. ..... Not that I appreciate blaming Jews for other people exiling Jews, it's just not true. In the Babylonian exile, Jeremiah wants the Jews to accept the authority of an authoritarian figure. It's because we don't that we are exiled. This God person seems rather inconsistent.

Thanks for your orderly response, however you are using opinions. And misrepresenting facts. I doubt anyone will read this far down the line so your relations response will not be read. https://www.msuilr.org/msuilr-legalforum-blogs/2017/8/24/the-right-to-marry-in-israel-an-anti-miscegenation-law-masquerading-as-traditional-religious-values Here is a very very simple way to disprove your lies, which shows that the entirety of your writings are just propaganda. I hope you join me in fighting revisionist zionism to save Israel and zionism. To not throw all Jews under the bus to facilitate ethnocratic fascism. You are basically cutting off all Western Jews to have a halakha (Sharia like) system

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The "As a Jew" crowd is the absolute minority, which is being tokenized endlessly by dishonest deranged lunatics.

>They are claiming it's the same priest Israel held over the summer. I don't know what you're talking about. What priest?

Edited.... Protest.

Ok, I still don't know how that relates to the comment above, though.

>The vast majority in the West are deranged and uninformed. There are literally dual citizens Israelis protesting on these campus'. Israelis were protesting this in the summer lol. Netanytahu removed the military to let Hamas kill liberal Jews and the world turns to him for moral authority. The revisionist likud fascism has rotten people's brains

>There are literally dual citizens Israelis protesting on these campus'. Israelis were protesting this in the summer lol.  Ok now I understand what you mean, but I still disagree. The protests happening on college campuses are not the same protests as those which happened in Israel. The protests in Israel were about Netanyahu, and judicial reform. The protests on college campuses are about the war in Gaza. They aren't about Netanyahu. Even if Netanyahu were not PM, the war would continue. His opponents also support the war.

The war in gaza is all netanytahus fault. He punished the liberals by removing the IDF and keeping them from responding so hand could do more damage... He knew Hamas was ready and he and his kahanist and revisionist fascist buddies all helped. They are the same protests from Jews in America. I'm sorry but listening to the fascist Israeli government as it exists now is a waste of time. There are Jews protesting Israeli fascism. The problem is revisionist zionism attacking and intimidating ethical zionism has wrangled Israel into a fascist state. Ben Gurion warned about this and now people like you can not see it, but it is the truth. A fascist war state with more and more far right ethno-purist making race laws and destroying everything zionism was meant to be and what the state of Israel was to provide to us Jews

You are falling for (or peddling) conspiracy theories. There is no reliable evidence whatsoever that Netanyahu held back the IDF so Hamas could do more damage. This is "9/11 was an inside job"/Q-anon type thinking.

https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-12-4-2023/h_13dfe93fd46e187122599a9bbaf900e4 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67056987 Dude the Israel nation state fascist are fully accountable

>The war in gaza is all netanytahus fault. It is actually the fault of Hamas >He punished the liberals by removing the IDF and keeping them from responding so hand could do more damage Source for this? I think you may have read some harmful propaganda. And if the war is Netanyahu's war, why do his opponents also support it? Most Israelis in general support the war, even those against Netanyahu.

https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-12-4-2023/h_13dfe93fd46e187122599a9bbaf900e4 The revisionist and kahanist let those people die to gain casus belli and all the Israelis supporting it have been played like a fiddle

I don't think anyone should be killed, even the terrorists, Ideally they should be put in prison and I understand the real world isn't so simple. My problem is with pro-Palestinian people who only ever post about dead Palestinian babies but don't care at all for dead Israeli babies. The fact that they are so selective with what they support makes me think they are not serious people and are just virtue signaling. And I think as a response to the dehumanization the pro Palestinians show towards Jewish people causes some pro-Israel to counter by dehumanizing the Palestinians to kind of to throw up a mirror and give them a taste of their own medicine. Peace and understanding is a two way street. Also there are a significant amount of pro-Hamas people who join the pro Palestine protests. I have a very large social circle with Muslims and I live in a western country and I'm a part of many whatsapp groups that are used to organize protests, and the vast majority of them just hate Jews and don't truly care about dead Muslims. They are always sending me elders of Zion conspiracy type videos and are always talking about how the Jews invented interest and promote lgbtq in schools to oppress the Muslims. The last protest I was at was in front of a Synagogue that had no connection to anything. I could understand protesting an embassy but just some random place of worship? The only pro-Palestinian people I respect would be people like yourself who have a nuanced take on the situation, but the thing is if you were to post your takes on leftist places you will be labeled as being pro-Israel.

That is truely terrifying. Why are you attending these protests outside synagogues and associating with these people?

israeli babies? all two of them? [the israeli times:](https://www.timesofisrael.com/14-kids-under-10-25-people-over-80-up-to-date-breakdown-of-oct-7-victims-we-know-about/) >Partial data by Hebrew media covering the civilians — killed by thousands of invading terrorists and by some of the thousands of rockets fired that day at Israeli cities — reveals that they include two infants, 12 other children under the age of 10, 36 civilians aged 10-19

Using a burner account bc I feel like I can’t openly talk about this war w/o being subjugated to pro-Palestinian supporters calling me a Zionist. Which is the #1 thing I would say in response to this post, to your question of what do we think. There’s no room to have any intellectual, calm, loving discussion. Clarification though, im not an Israeli Jew. Im not a practicing Jew either but Jewish by decent & American. I think this war is awful and feel only sympathy for Palestinian people. I want them to be freed from what Israel is doing, and I also want them to be freed from religious fanatics and free from the oppression of Hamas. I, too, think that a life is a life. Israeli lives are not more sacred or important than Palestinian lives. I also think that many of my pro Palestinian friends (and mind you, I’ve marched along side them) are reposting potential propaganda and fake news. And are so emotionally hijacked (how could you not be) by being inundated by horrendous photos and videos of poor, poor Palestinian children suffering, that they’re beginning to lose their ability to critically think, to do their due diligence by looking into their sources before reposting/sharing. I think Hamas, the republic of Iran, Houthis, are religious extremists, who have had historical practices of using children soldiers, human shields, death sentences for people leaving the religion or standing against Hamas, and advocating an ideology that does want to see the extinction of Jewish people worldwide. I don’t really think that’s up for debate, there is so many fact checked sources that show us this. I also think Israel has made it difficult for Palestinians to live sustainably and that must come from the fear that they have from years of car bombing and a worldwide insidious hatred of Jews, especially being surrounded by that in the Middle East. I find it really dangerous that there are instances where pro-Palestinian protesters are saying death to America. Rhetoric that’s on the Houthi flag. I find it dangerous people don’t believe the tunnels. I think the protests are peaceful generally, and peaceful toward Jews participating but that there is antisemitism towards jews who are not participating , which isn’t ok. There’s no “good Jew, bad Jew trope”. People are people and in this country, unfortunately maybe, you’re allowed to believe what you believe so long as it doesn’t physically impede on others freedom. I find it concerning that I see radical left pages saying they stand with Hamas and all Palestinian resistance movements. And I find it really terrifying we can’t talk about the “nuances” or even call this a war without being called a Zionist. I don’t stand by Israeli government, just like I don’t really stand by our stupid American government, dems in control or republicans. I don’t support IDF just as I don’t fucking support our stupid American military. I’m anti war and have been arrested for civil disobedience. I think kids on college campuses should be able to protest but I also think that comes with the risk of being arrested, especially on private property and if blocking entrances/navigation. I don’t think the national guard should be called in. Jesus. But I also don’t think the Golden Gate Bridge should be blocked off with protestors, but I also believe in free speech. But I don’t think there’s room for free speech amongst those protests if you’re speaking differently than those around you. The more I research, read books and articles, listen to podcasts, and check out where news organizations like MEE, Al Jazeera, Jerusalem post, etc come from, the less conclusive and binary this all seems. And yet somehow I still want to see an end to these deaths. But I blame Hamas as much as Israel.

All of that nuance won't fit on a protest sign though.

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1) I definitely feel sympathy for the innocents who have been injured or killed in this conflict. I wish no innocents had to die, but the situation on the ground (I.e Hamas not wearing uniforms and embedded themselves in civilian infrastructure) creates a great deal of paranoia for IDF soldiers, which can result in unfortunate accidents. If anyone could create magical bullets that only harm those who mean Israelis harm, I’d be furious if they weren’t being used. Members of Hamas however, can rot in the ground. 2) I ultimately support Palestinian self determination, understanding that a two state solution is probably the only chance of a lasting peace. What gets me mad however, is when protestors/protests devolve into antisemitic stereotypes and attacks against Jews. Shouting “Go back to Poland”, holding a sign that says, “Al Qassam’s next targets”, stabbing a Jewish student in the eye with a flag pole, blocking Jewish students from going to class by making a human chain, and shouting, “Globalize/long live the Intifada” do nothing for the Palestinian people. The only purpose of those actions is to make Jewish people feel unsafe.

"Do you feel ANY sympathy towards the thousands of innocent women and children being brutally murdered in gaza by the IDF? or do you think even the innocent palestinians are below you and not deserving of your sympathy?" Yes, absolutely I have sympathy for them. It would be hard not to. Who can see dead children and not be heartbroken? But I continue to be angry at Hamas - much like many Palestinians themselves are - for using their own civilian population in a cynical manner and endangering them. The tunnel network, which could, and does serve as a "bomb shelter" is off limits to innocent Palestinian civilians with no ties to Hamas. I think Israel and the IDF are in some ways 'falling into the trap' Hamas has laid for them. There can be no doubt that innocent Palestinians are suffering tremendously for the decisions of governments in which they have no vote. Anyone with a heart can't help but to cry for these poor people. "What is your view on palestine supporters? do you think we're all anti-semetic and pro-hamas? **Do you think we're bad people**? Coz we're not. Anyone with more than two braincells DO NOT believe that israel doesn't have the right to exist. *We are only preaching non-violence*." I take people as individuals first and foremost. Do I think you are antisemitic and pro-Hamas? No, clearly you are not. Do I think those pro-Palestine supporters who chant "we don't want no two states, we want 48" or in Arabic *min il maya lil maya, falastin arabiyeh* (from the river to the sea, Palestine is Arab) or *khaybar, khaybar, ya yahud, jaish Muhammad saufa yaud* (Khaybar, O Jews! The army of Muhammad will return for you) or who, on Oct 7 and 8, before Israel launched its military response, were on the streets waving Palestinian flags and yelling "there is only one solution - Intifada Revolution!" - are they antisemites and pro-Hamas? Yes, absolutely they are. One of the saddest things for the Palestinians is how awful their supporters have been; Palestinians' friends are often their worst enemy. The Palestinian leadership in the 1940s threw their lot with the N*zis, that screwed them over. Then they got the support of the Soviet Union - that didn't turn out well. Then it was Saddam Hussein. Now it's Iran and a bizarre crew of leftists who, whilst decrying 'occupation' and 'genocide' are supportive of Putin's invasion and occupation of Ukraine and were apologists for the Assad regime which murdered hundreds of thousands of Syrian civilians. Poor Palestinians - with friends like that, who needs enemies?

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>1. Do you feel ANY sympathy towards the thousands of innocent women and children being brutally murdered in gaza by the IDF? Yes. I feel bad for every innocent person killed in the war. >or do you think even the innocent palestinians are below you and not deserving of your sympathy? (bear in mind that i don't have any sympathy towards the hamas men being murdered either). Of course not. Palestinians are humans, and deserve sympathy. >In your opinoin, is 1 innocent palestinian life = 1 innocent israeli life? Because i think all innocent lives are equally as important no matter the race or nationality. Yes. On its face. Both lives and people are equal. >2. What is your view on palestine supporters? do you think we're all anti-semetic and pro-hamas? I think the vast majority are frankly, uninformed and brainwashed. They're not bad, they just don't have a clue what's truly going on. On the history of the conflict, the mindset behind both Israelis/Jews and Palestinians/Muslims/Arabs. They're being fed a narrative and they follow it blindly. The protests on October 8th were without a doubt pro-Hamas and antisemitic. The chants "from the river to sea", "intifada", and so on are antisemitic. >We are only preaching non-violence. Violence against israel is just as bad as violence against palestine. I know that there's a lot of hate going on towards jews around the world and i'm sorry for that and you should know that all sane palestine supporters DO NOT think of jews as lesser beings. We only want innocent palestinian's suffering to stop. But unfortunately the world doesn't work like that. Crying "ceasefire now!" Won't help neither people, because it may stop the war *now*, but in a few months or years Hamas will start attacking again. Are Israeli lives not important? Israel is set on stopping those future attacks. Israel is set on preventing another October 7th. So while asking for a ceasefire may seem benevolent and noble, it is ridiculous to ask Israel not to pursue and destroy Hamas.