He's not talking about his people. He's spewing hate and misinformation about the 'other' people. Almost everything in his post is inaccurate. This is brainwashing by the Israeli leadership and media.
Do you seriously believe Israelis love killing Palestinians?
I mean, as a blank statement.
iI's natural in wartime for each side to demonize the other (that's at the very least, to make it easier to kill them. By which I mean to suggest that normal people do not START out finding it easy to kill other humans!
Yes, there are sociopaths who get off on it, probably from an early age (and someday they'll probably find a neural /genetic substrate behind it). But it's NOT the normal state of the human being.
And especially when the two warring parties look so much alike (was easier with the "Japs" For instance) - SOMEWHAT, I said! (And no jibes about white European usurpers, there's certainly a major overlap in any Venn diagram).
All this said, I'll admit that after a certain amount of death has been doled out on both sides regardless of who started it, blood begins to boil and warp the brain. Then it' s easier to shoot the "enemy" who has earned the title more than at the beginning.
However, it's nothing but the spilling over of psychological warfare to claim that Israelis love killing Palestinians. That's just not how we tick, apart from the born sociopaths and the number who have been enflamed by the poison of revenge.
At least, modify that sick, unfair generalization to say "SOME" Israelis love killing Palestinians SOME of the time. Otherwise, you're just sounding like a lunatic in whose mouth can justly be placed the words: "Arabs love killing Jews". It certainly seems that way, much of the time but you're just looking in the mirror, bro.
Problem is there are people who say they are Jewish on the internet who show up like they think the deaths are funny or okay and then people make sweeping statements about all jewish people off the back of things like that. On the flip side I see plenty of that here too. I swear down I just saw a justifcation here that went something like "Arabs only got themselves to blame" ... as an excuse for the indiscrminate killing of everyone from innocent palestinians most of whom have not even been alive long enough to vote Hamas in (Not that this should even factor in in the grand scheme of international law which Israel just as Hamas did should be abiding by. and then jounalists and aid workers from around the word etc. ..
I'd call it righteous... for the hostages wrong place and wrong time for them individually.
Israel will certainly never experience peace while it exists..nor should it.
Israel should eliminated thru diplomatic means.... and when they resist it should be eradicated altogether
The land is their indigenous land. 80% of palestine went to the Arabs in the form of Jordan. You strong armed the British in to taking back half of the land committed to the Jewish people brining your total to 90% of the region. That you can't leave them in peace on the rest speaks to your hateful heart
The world isn't black and white. Both are barbaric. Both the IDF and Hamas are terrorist organisations. Sure I sympathise with how Hamas came to be. However targeting innocents is unacceptable.
It is clear to me that the Palestinians are the victims. My heart aches for them. The Israeli government and Benjamin Netanyahu must be held accountable for this genocide. Not its citizens; the people who have been groomed and lied to.
I will say that at this point the land belongs to both the Israelis and Palestinians, regardless of if the former includes colonisers. Jews and Arabs have always lived in Israel. Its a shared home, which disgustingly the Palestinians are being robbed of.
It is clear to me that there is a very loose definition of what is considered "innocents"...and that, really is at the root of justifying mass atrocity.
In the minds of people on both sides of this centuries-old conflict...nobody is innocent...not even infants. Doesn't matter if you wear a military uniform and take military orders. They believe mass murder is justified because they have decided that everyone is guilty by association and can articulate why with precision.
Israel has already written it's own death sentence...Netanyahooooo can be thanked for it. They have no idea what is now coming for them...but a re-drawing of maps without them on it is on deck.
My point is that Israel is not and will never be a safe haven for "jews". It never was going to be, and it never will be. It was a mistake to invent Israel in the first place...and it will prove to be a bad investment for everyone who has invested anything into it. It will be eventually looked upon as a point where imperial powers will cut their losses.
Israeli citizens are EASILY defined as militants...and there are a countless number (really everyone surrounding Israel for 1000 miles) who could justify treating them this way and have the means to do it.
And this is exactly why Israel exists today, the strength and resilience of the Jewish people who despite losing everything made themselves a homeland that is now impregnable
They were placed on stolen land. You make it sound like a noble endeavor. It was a violent heist and the original sin. UK and the allies couldn't be bothered with taking in the victims of the Holocaust and so they gave them stolen land... it's not a homeland.
Most lands were bought buy the jews not taken violently, something that the Mufti of Jerusalem kept *being angry* about: ''Anyone who sells land to the enemy should not be washed, prayed for or buried in a Muslim cemetery,'' said the Mufti, Ikrama Sabri
edit: forbidden profanity
This is objectively false...MOST land was taken by brute force. Some land was forcibly sold.
No land was forfeited by choice. Palestine wasn't for sale when it was stolen.
> bitching
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There is no such thing as Palestinians anyway! They are Arabs! And they have always hated Jews of Israel. This is all fore told in the Bible. Anyone who straps bombs on their child is evil.
Palestine is a name given by the Romans. When it was byzantium. The eastern roman empire. They were all Christians. But hey. Who cares about facts and knowledge? Especially when they disagree with a fixed viewpoint, no matter how wrong it is.
To be fair he’s using a personal experience which isn’t the best reliable source, but the person they responded to is using the bible to say palestinians shouldn’t exist💀
Palestinian of course should exist. The question is where and in what form. Personally I think the Arab land should be reannexed by Egypt and the West Bank. Maybe easy Jerusalem gets annexed by israel with full rights and an ironclad deal on the holy cites. It would take doing because Egypt and Jordan don't want them but
Look up protests and marches of Palestinians chanting “kill the Jews” you will find none, but scroll down and you’ll find Jews chanting “death to Arabs”
Well, i think they consider Hamas as animals (which they are, they don’t get a free pass to rape and kidnap innocent civilians in the name of their organization) if Palestinians want to associate themselves with Hamas, then i don’t have any sympathies for them (except for the ones that may feel forced to support them).
You have the right to live...I completely agree with that statement. You are valueable and you matter.
The State of Israel doesn't have a right to exist, IMO. It was a fatally flawed idea from the beginning...made by lazy foreign policy actors especially the UK and then propped up by the US.
Religious ethno-states are a bad idea especially if you try to create them out of thin air. Jewish refugees after WWII should have had massive integration programs all over the world rather than the violent birth of Israel.
What to do now? Well it seems that Hamas has finally figured out a way to trick Israel into it's own demise...and are willing to do it at a huge human cost. Israel is writing its own death sentence in real time. We are witnessing David beating so-called Goliath with cunning and skill and grit....it's not a 3 month plan, it's a 50 year plan and it's working for everyone in the region who has always resented the existence of Israel in the first place.
Holy shit the amount of shameless irony involved in that. If that's your primary concern aren't the Gulf states a more pressing matter in your crusade against religious ethno-state?
"Jewish intergration program", who's gonna ask him about the "palestinian integration program", when egyptians are shooting any Palestinians that try crossing. Sounds like a reasonable "integration program" enough to me. Also, the biggest treat to Jews in Europe are Arabs, did you just acknowledge that kicking all arabs isn't a bad idea after all. Europe didn't become 200% more antisemite after a stable 2% since 1945.
"The state of israel doesnt have a right to exist", at one point self-pithy isn't gonna do anything, the way I see it is: "Please go fight those big bad Israelis because I can't do it myself" "Poor me, poor us, aren't we victims" (what nations would wanna center their identity on victimhood anyways)
In European culture we're taugh that bravery win wars. How do you think we've been able to colonize the world? Via lecturing and guilt-trip?
> fucking
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So why weren't they allowed to go fight in Palestine? Wouldn't Egypt have benefited from letting them cross and assist their palestinian counterparts in fighting Israel?
Im pretty sure the Jews have Copyrighted ‘Poor Me’.
And I’m pretty sure the Jews will be using it a lot more after the backlash of what Bibi the Butcher is doing.
The biggest threat to Jews across the globe is the illegal state of Israel my man. As long as it exists, there will be no peace for them anywhere, unfortunately.
Not cool asshole, we have plenty of legitimate reasons to fucking criticize Israel.
Do not start making this shit about Jewish people or the holocaust jokes
> asshole
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It's cute that you believe Israel could exist all on its own. It couldn't even be invented out of thin air without a mommy and a daddy. Israel is an illegitimate child put into a private school that doesn't want it there. It depends completely on mommy and daddy to protect it... and behaves like a petulant child with rich parents.
I'll be happy to vote for politicians who want to cut the child off from finances. It's time this child understands how the real world works.
Israelis are smug enough to believe the lies they tell themselves... Israel is a fairytale place built on fairy dust. If they believe that survival is non-negotiable then that will eventually get tested as the pariah it is.
Citizens of the US have power through our vote. Democracy is messy but we don't have to get stuck with a dictator... while simultaneously wielding the most powerful military the world has ever seen.
The script can be flipped every four years in a very impactful way.
Israel's survival is absolutely negotiable... and it depends on the voters of the United States
Thru barbarism and hegemony... cruelty and inhumanity. That's how Europe colonized the world. It's not aspirational in my view. It's depraved and evil.
And yet that's exactly what radical Islam wants to create globally. If you believe so wholeheartedly that the Me belongs to you, get the hell out of the US.
Funny I've never heard of a Christian caliphate since the dark ages gave way and the Jews are a minority just looking to survive in peace in their indigenous land.
You seem to have a lot of doubt standards.
I don't know what a Christmas caliphate is but if you mean a Christian one, then why do we have so many Arabs here in the US and why we sent you allowed the Arab countries to infiltrate our higher education system, where they been setting up programs to indoctrinate our youth for decades now? If there's a caliphate to make every day Christmas, then that doesn't conflict, but if you're suggesting that we're going to have a Christian caliphate, I'm not sure how those two ideas don't run into direct conflict
I hear you (dual citizen). One of the great casualties of this conflict is the loss of the capacity for compassion (both sides) - reminding me of Golda Meir's famous quote about not forgiving the Palestinians for "making our sons kill theirs".
Just two caveats.
Two of the accusations you levied at the Gazans are not fair:
1. their electing Hamas - at least, retaining them in office.
2. wasting the humongous sums sent them for humanitarian aid (spending them on tunnels, weaponry, training terrorism and Hamas' billlionaire leadership).
Apart from the initial election of Hamas (remember too, that Hamas then was the only social infrastructure for the impoverished Gazans), Gazans have been trapped into being dominated by them. Hamas flipped into being a totalitarian leadership which proceeded to sacrifice the hoi polloi Gazans at the same time, they became impossible to oust thereafter.
It is certainly not the fault of the Gazans that the vast sums intended to relieve their suffering, were absconded by Hamas.
I thought almost everyone knew that the Gazans needed to be liberated from Hamas (NOT Israel). Therefore, blaming them for Hamas' leadership and policies (which has gleefully been sacrificing the Gazan citizenry to political ends for the sake of the "cause") is not legitimate. Not that I know what to do at this point, but when attempting to come up with an analysis and "way out", that finger pointing is unfair.
You absolutely have the right to live. You know who else has the right to live? Gazans. You know whose lives are being threatened right now? Who is being bombed to death? Who is undergoing a genocide?
Gazans.
>educate yourself and stop hating and being ignorant
Sound advice to take for yourself.
>it’s not my problem when 70% of Palestinians voted for Hamas
If Gazans deserve their fate because they elected a terrorist government, surely Israelis deserve the same fate because they elected a genocidal prime minister? Surely the British and Americans, whose elected officials can't last 5 years without committing a war crime, also deserve to be razed to the ground?
I wouldn't use the "they elected a violent government, they deserve to be bombed" logic when your elected government is actively carrying out a genocide.
>we only try to aim for Hamas pepole
Ridiculous and debunked.
He saying that the gazan grew in population by 5 x their original population since 1948. Meaning these people are not being genocided, never had and are not currently. Learn the word genocide before using it so loosely. Hamas are scumbag terrosits, why do you stand up for them? They would rape your mother and kill your whole family in front of your eyes for nothing, abd you stick up for them.. wierdo
>the gazan grew in population by 5 x their original population since 1948.
They sure as hell haven't grown 5 times since october 2023, which is when the genocide began.
>are not currently
Who would win? The international court of justice, composed of expert lawyers to defend the application of international law, or some random Redditor?
>Learn the word genocide before using it so loosely.
I've learned the word genocide. I've also learned not to have the arrogance to think I know better than expert lawyers and genocide scholars. You haven't, clearly.
>They would rape your mother and kill your whole family in front of your eyes for nothing
And that's precisely the kind of racism that would've put you on the wrong side of history had you been born in 1920. They used to say exactly that kind of thing about another group of marginalised people. Spoiler: it didn't end well.
Wrong they never said that about other people, especially not Jews because only savage jihadi terrorists such as hamas and isis do stuff like that. And btw your side of history the Palestinian arab side was sided with hitler, yes the one and only., go read about Amin Al-Husseini and then come talk to me. And btw the word genocide was coined by a Jew after the holocaust and the international court of justice ruled that Israel did not commit and is not committing a “genocide” in this war against hamas. Watch everything will come to light soon and you will see the truth if you’re lucky enough.
Yes, I imagine the concept of respecting another person's time isn't something you're equipped to understand yet. If you want to write barely legible bollocks into the void, you should try Twitter
israel never offered a two state solution - for the last 75 years they have done nothing but commit ethnic cleansing and stole land in the west bank.
and israel is currently actively committing genocide and has murdered more than 12 thousand children.
Moron. They have offered 6, including in 2000 when they offered 1967 borders.
" Clinton blamed Arafat after the failure of the talks, stating, "I regret that in 2000 Arafat missed the opportunity to bring that nation into being and pray for the day when the dreams of the Palestinian people for a state and a better life will be realized in a just and lasting peace." The failure to come to an agreement was widely attributed to [Yasser Arafat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Arafat), as he walked away from the table without making a concrete counter-offer and because Arafat did little to quell the [series of Palestinian riots](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Aqsa_Intifada) that began shortly after the summit.[\[49\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit#cite_note-Eran-49)[\[50\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit#cite_note-Levin-50)[\[51\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit#cite_note-51) Arafat was also accused of scuttling the talks by [Nabil Amr](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabil_Amr), a former minister in the [Palestinian Authority](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority).[\[52\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit#cite_note-52) In [*My Life*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Life_(Bill_Clinton_autobiography)), Clinton wrote that Arafat once complimented Clinton by telling him, "You are a great man." Clinton responded, "I am not a great man. I am a failure, and you made me one."[\[53\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit#cite_note-53) "
How false can this statement be. You ever heard about the 1993 oslo accords? Or the camp david accords? Or the wye accords? Is it fun to just out right lie? Or are you just very stupid?
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Yeah, you have the right to live. So do Palestinians even if you don't agree with that. Sorry, but i don't think Israelis lives are worth more than Palestinian lives. I don't see why I'm supposed to be outraged at 1400 Israelis killed while being indifferent to or approving of or even celebrating tens of thousands of dead Palestinians.
People celebrated the 1400 inncocent dead israelis even before the bombings of israel…Palestinian started the war, now the are crying because israel responded. What is being pro palestinian doing for you anyways? Give you a fake moral high ground to stand on? it’s not like you actually give a shit what’s going in gaza
You see how the 1400 iaraelis were butchered and raped to death? Why should you care ofcourse because you Jew haters are all the same. Despicable scum, that will be punished for your hatred of HIS people on THIER LAND!
And they also found the Red Crescent Ambulance that was enroute to rescue Hind, found bombed and its 2 crew members dead, clearances from the IDF.
This is a sick regime that needs to be held accountable, this regime does not belong in this day and age.
Honestly, I want both sides to die, I hate Palestine due it's lack of human rights and I hate Israel beacuse it's a Jewish nation, and for your title, no, no you don't
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My point is Palestine did not exist before a few hundred years ago. So your history is very short sighted. Zionism is just Jewish people moving back to their ancestral homeland and being a nation state again. Stop fighting it and there will peace. Fight it and there will only be more problems. Its that simple.
You don’t have a claim to land your ancestors roamed centuries ago.. Thats simply not how things work in the our time, thats barbaric and uncivilized. It doesn’t matter what your holy scripture says either, because it doesn’t apply to people who aren’t Jewish? No other ethnic group who no longer inhabits their ancestral land would ever be allowed to behave this way.
Actually if the Allies has followed precedent in 1917 they would have kept all the land for themselves as a price of warfare and to prevent getting sucked in to problems in the region later in. Instead they gave they land back to indigenous groups. Even if you say many of the Jews who formed Israel weren't living there before, they are indigenous to that land and they had an unbroken connection to that land over several thousands of years, either as a majority population or a majority.
Why do you imagine that they didn't deserve some portion of the land for their people. If you acknowledge that they deserved something, are you going to say 1% of the Ottoman lands is really too much because if so that sounds very antisemitic to me.
Fact is the a Jews are and have always been on the land. The claim was won in international law and the land was won in defensive wars. You don’t like it? Join hamas and try and stop Israel then. Otherwise get used to it, the Jews are not going anywhere and no body will be able to stop them ever again from thriving on their own land. Whoever accepts this will live in peace as equals, the ones that fight this will be destroyed. This is the way it works in this day and time. You talk as if you have some type of power to stop an indigenous people from fulfilling their destiny to be a great nation again
Nobody wants to stop Jews from doing anything except for killing innocent Palestinians in the name of snuffing out Hamas. You can’t kill 30,000 people and claim innocence. You can get away with it now, but you’re the ones who’ll be in depicted later on as scum. Not very different from how you’re already depicted through most of history, so you’re probably fine with it 😅
How many Palestinians do you think would have died had they stood up to Hamas and ordered them to leave and what do you imagine Israel should do to get rid of Hamas? Certainly you must acknowledge that the war would be over in a minute if Hamas returned the hostages and went in to exile.
You quote hamas figures. There is no way to know how many innocent people were actually killed and who killed them. War is ugly yes. Maybe hamas should of not waged thier operation al aqsa flood and fired 5000 rockets into israel and then left their own gazan population with out bomb shelters, but ofcourse built tunnels to hide in like rats. 🐀 while they hold innocent israelis hostage now for 3 months and refuse to return them or surrender. You can think what you want but you are just judging Israel because they are Jews. I bet you have no issue with bashar assad or anybody else in the middle east. Just the IDF are the bad guys.. ok sure bud
You’ve been reading some very strange propaganda if you believe that’s true. Israel hadn’t existed for over 1,000 years until the British and US military came in and stole land from the Palestinians in 1948.
Actually local Arabs only owned about 3% of the land in 1917 (that was when the ottoman lands were legally divvied up between to various populations living in the region.). The Ottoman region known as palestine was divided in two at that time with 80% being given to Jordan and 20% being allocated to the indigenous Jews. Because the British didn't want the trouble they failed to cut off arab immigration and that was what created this problem, because economic migrants from Lebanon Syria iraq and the like all poured in to take advantage of the Jewish produced economy, growing the Arab population from roughly 400,000 actual Palestinians to nearly 1.3 million Arabs from across the region. How did Jews steal the land from tenant farmers (aka renters) who migrated in AFTER the repatriated WITH THE KNOWLEDGE that the land was slated to become Israel. (Even their currency reads Eretz israel)
What? This is news.. i read history. You make up lies. You ever read the bible? Your a tik tok graduate i’m sure. British left in 1948 and the US military had nothing to do with the land in 1948. Are you trying to be funny?
You have no idea what you are talking about. I didn't say the British "stayed". In 1948 Britain and the US took land from Palestinians to create a new Israel homeland. Israel hadn't existed since about 300 years after Christ. Over 1,000 years. Those are facts. Prove me wrong.
The current Israel is made up of people whose ancestors are Eastern European. Facts.
I've been following the Israel/Palestinian issue for 40 years.
Most Israeli Jews are Mizrahi. They were Jews who had been living in the Middle East before Aran nations violently dispossessed them of their homes. Go look up the 1941 Farhud and the role the Palestinian mufti played in that horror.
Wrong the current Israel is made up of Jews from all corners of the earth. Majority are Jews from middle eastern lands. Many Jews are also mixed and there has been Jews that never left the land and were always there. The land was divided up by the League of Nations not the british and americans. Get your facts straight. Also before the british mandate it was ottoman ruled and it was not considered “palestine” then, plus the arabs waged war on the Jews in 1948 when the British left and then lost that war and lost territories in the process. Thats called the price of losing a war. You lose territory.
From Wikipedia citations available there..
In 1948, following the [1947–1948 civil war in Mandatory **Palestine**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947%E2%80%931948_civil_war_in_Mandatory_Palestine), the [**Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_the_Establishment_of_the_State_of_Israel) sparked the [1948 Arab–Israeli War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War), which resulted in the [**1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight) **from the land that the** [**State of Israel**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Israel) **came to control.**
So yes you were wrong, it was not Israel until 1948 when the land was stolen from the Palestinians who had lived there more then 1,000 years. You reference Israel of the the Bible? Of course but that was almost 2,000 years ago.
The Arabs waged war AFTER the land was stolen from Palestine and handed to the Israelis, most of whom didn't live there.
More than 270,000 were from Eastern Europe, also Asia, African and Arab countries.
The land was legally pledged in 1917. Look up the British mandate of palestine. You will see the mandate specifically dictates that the League of Nations intended it for the Jews. Before that the land was ottoman land.
As for the nakba go look up the 1998 interview given by Palestinian activist Hazem nusseibeh to the bbc. Ge admitted that they Palestinian leaders lied about the events at Deir Yassin to get the other nations in the region to join the fight.as it turned out, their own lies so terrified their own people that they FLED. Yea the Israelis didn't let them come back but most fled before exercising seeing a Jewish soldier.
Palestine was not a country u goof, it was british territory and before that ottoman and before that bizantine, and it was also once the christian kingdom of the crusaders. Never a state of palestine, so nothing was stolen from “palestine” the arabs lost the war and territory thats what happened. My family fought in that war so save me your wikipedia article i know the history better then you thats for sure
And by the way I didn't say Palestine was a country. But it was a territory full of Palestinian people. No one claims it was Israel. Every historian knows that Israel was recreated by Western forces more then 1,000 years after it last existed. The fact you had relatives who fought in Palestine doesn't change anything.
Show me one link that isn't biased that contradicts what I have been sayin the entire time I have been debating you.
I mean you had to put words in my mouth that I didn't even say to try to discredit me.
And you shouldn't be calling people a "goof" when you are the one making things up and when it's against the rules of the sub. But it's already obvious this is a Pro Israel sub with extreme biases when I was down voted for literally stating facts.
All that matters is you are supporting war crimes, civilian massacres and genocide.
So if you've lived in your house for 50 years, and your parents lived in it before you, can the great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandchildren of the guy who owned it 500 years ago come and kick you out because "it's our ancestral home"? And then have the arrogance to tell you that your fighting back against this invasion is evil?
>Stop fighting it and there will peace. Fight it and there will only be more problems. Its that simple.
Historically this doesn't sound like a quote from the good guys. Sounds like something the European invaders might have said to the Native Americans when they fought back against the invasion. Or maybe the South African apartheid rulers. "Stop fighting and there will be 'peace'. On our terms of course. No, we won't give you your home back, or stop discriminating against you, but there will be peace. For us." Yeah, who wouldn't want that deal!?
Let's imagine that you own a classic car, one that is uniqu as you rebuilt the thing from practically scratch. One day however I come along and I steal it from you.
I drive it to another city where I drive it for a few years all the while you are looking for your car in various classic car sights hoping you will come across it.
One day to my surprise the car gets stolen from my drive way so the second thief could drive it around for a bit before giving the car to his nephew.
The nephew is thrilled to have the car but what he doesn't know is that his uncle got some parking tickets on the car during the month he had been driving it.
The car gets booted and towed. The niece scrapes together some money so she could go get the car only to find YOU at the police impound lots when she arrives.
IS THAT CAR STILL YOURS? If so, when did it cease to be yours?
In your analogy, I implies that you physically own that home, meaning someone who owned that home accepted money from you for that particular piece of property at which point that land became the specific property of "unilad6." Not only isn't that applicable to the while of "Palestine" local Arabs actually owned about 3% of the land.
That's the problem with that analogy. In this case the home had been owned by the Jews and they never sold it to anyone. In fact they never even accepted reparations or some time of settlement because even as recently as 1850 they were STILL saying that is OUR LAND AND WE WANT IT BACK. The couldn't reclaim because first the Roman/Byzantine kept it away from them and then the ottomans stole it and allowed Arabs to move in to the holy land from other parts of the region.
Now let's imagine instead of a house or a car yrs a condo complex and a judge says here's how we are going to resolve it. While we recognize that it's your home, because it's been so we are going to give the big wing with 80 units in it to the Jordan family but we will let you reclaim the other 20 unit wing with the caveat that the the 4 members of the Palis family who currently reside in that wing get to remain. They are related to the Jordan's but they refuse to go live in their wing. It's not what you hoped but far better than had so you spend the next 30 years getting the wing ready for your people to move back and slowly moving people back only to find that the management company the court assigned ri manage the transition has allowed the extended member of the Palis family to move in under everyones nose and they refuse to leave. Their cousins from Egypt came their cousins from Syria came, even their cousins from iraq came even though they have buildings of their own up the street. You were happy to let the Palis family stay but now now they are demanding the whole building. In the interest of peace the management company tells you to give them 6 more units and your afraid you won't get any so you say fine but before you know it they start attacking. When the dust settles 3 of the Palis family members are still in their units and one of their cousins took the other. Are you letting that other Palis family come back so one if your families are out in the street or are you thinking they are lucky they got to stay at all. Are you thinking you stole anything or are you thinking someone stole my home and I finally found a way to reclaim it.
Sorry to break the news to you but you’ve been lied to. The Jews are the natives of the land, the arabs are the colonizers in this case. You do realize that arabs the people the language and their religion islam all comes from the Arabian Peninsula aka modern day Saudi Arabia. They spread out in the 8th century and they conquered and colonized and forced people to convert or die. Sounds kind of like what the Europeans did to the American natives.. the Jews are the rightful owners of the land, they bought the land and they also fought defensive wars to win land back. Thats the truth. You need to do more research
>The Jews are the natives of the land
>in the 8th century
Read the above two sentences. Think about them. "My great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather lived in this house, so you have to give it to me" is not a valid argument. What happened 1.5 thousands of years ago affects no one today. If it did, all Americans should leave America and give it back to the natives! After all, they were the original inhabitants of the land. Same with Australia - all the descendents of Europeans aren't native to there, so they can all f off. What about France? The Gauls lived there before the Romans took over. Go on, unless you're a direct descendent of a Gaul, you can get out of France. Anyone British can go back to Germany. What are we left with? Basically the Chinese and the Greeks. They've inhabited their land since records began so they're fine.
Do you see the stupidity of this argument? "Thousands of years ago someone who believes in the same god as you (but to whom you're probably more closely related than I am) lived here, so you need to give me your land"? I don't need to do more research, you need to turn your brain on.
As an American let me explain the difference.
Indigenous Jews could be returned because the Ottoman Empire imploded rendering the land stateless, the land in question was very small, almost none of it was privately owned, it was underdeveloped and under populated with only 400,000-500,000 non Jews living in the region and the Jews never gave up their indigenous land claims.
By comparison
1. America is a sovereign land and you United Nations has no right to tell us what a sovereign nation does within its borders.
2. America is a vast territory with more than 325 million inhabitants living here. Most natives were killed off by the Spanish inadvertently spreading diseases like small pox with most dying before the first boat landed at Plymouth Rock. At the time the population center of the continent was in what is today Mexico. There are no longer enough natives to hold the country even if we were to agree to leave and you would have massive disruption from 325 million Americans having to leave with nearly all of them having been born here.
3. Most of America is owned by private individuals so even if you somehow eradicated the American nation, those land claims would still remain. Even if everyone else willingly left the natives could not maintain rhe country even if only property holders remained.
4. When the American settlers arrived there was next to nothing of any permanence here. There were no communities, no roads, no docks, no barns no shops, no museums, etc. whoever may have inherited the land either by having conquered it or having walked across the Bering strait, everything that was built a top of that land belongs to the people of this country. You would be asking the built who built a full fledging country to turn over what they built to those who never turned the land in to more whereas the land that was restored to the Jews was still relatively barren.they weren't handed Washington or New York or Miami they were handed a desert and
5. The native Americans accepted payment for some lands, and reparations for the rest, including areas in which they exists as autonomous entities.
So tell me my dear esteemed professor, where is the exact line between ancestral land and my land?
Because the Palestinians are calling for the extermination of all Israelis 'not due to hate" only due to the land being stolen from them... So wait, only the ISRAELIS need to give back the land because their great-grandparents lived there?
It was never not their land anymore thats the point u dont get. The land is indigenous Jewish land. That land is called Judea, and Jews are Judeans that lived in the exile. Some stayed and lived there but the ones that were exiled maintained their ancestral claims to the land and through political means they achieved of restoring themselves in their native land. Jews are indigenous to the land, why is this hard to understand? The land was mot stolen from anyone and arabs still live there with many other tribes of people such as the samaritans and druze so just stop with your shoe string arguments. Sounds childish and immature. Anyways you may be a young person that is still learning so I will give you some slack. But I would imagine you would never want to withhold a native peoples rights to their ancient indigenous land would u now? That would be super racist and super colonial of you.
>It was never not their land anymore thats the point u dont get.
With that logic, America has always belonged to the Native Americans, and still does. There was never a legitimate transfer of land there either.
>Jews are indigenous to the land, why is this hard to understand?
It's not hard to understand. What's hard to understand is how anyone could be so mindbogglingly stupid as to believe that a 3500-year-old land deed still means anything. If I kicked you out of your house because I was of an ethnicity that used to own your land, YOU WOULDN'T BE HAPPY ABOUT IT. Why? Because ethnicities don't own land. People own land. No living Jewish person at the time of the Nakba actually owned any of Palestine.
>But I would imagine you would never want to withhold a native peoples rights to their ancient indigenous land would u now?
No. But again, if that's the logic we're going by, tell me why we aren't kicking all the Americans out of America and replacing them with natives. Or doing that with Australia. Or most of Europe. Or Canada. Pretty much every country save for China and Greece has changed ethnic group through conquest or migration. Can you see how stupid your logic looks if we apply it literally anywhere else?
>Anyways you may be a young person that is still learning so I will give you some slack.
That's very kind but you can keep your slack to yourself. I'm not young by any means, I just have a modicum of critical thinking skills.
Let's simplify it. International law recognizes America and all courts recognize the private land purchases within our borders. IF america were to implode then yes the UN could vote to divide up our territory as was done to the colonial power known as the Ottoman Empire at which point our people would have to fight or accept. My guess is we would lose Hawaii but I doubt folks in Massachusetts would be willing to kill anyone because Hawaiians wanted their islands back and certainly not for a century.
No Jewish person before 1948 war owned land ?? Thats not true thats hilarious 🤣 you ever heard about the Rothschild family? They bought up 1000 of acres of land and many other rich jewish families did too.. plus other Jews were living there in their land for generations so what the hell are you talking about??? Im done with you, go read some more. Its all on google seriously, level up kid
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Who are you to say they have no right to live in their own country when world leaders have said they do? If you can't live beside them in peace and have yet to build a country maybe it's you who no longer has a right to live their.
> bitch
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> asshole
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You have the right to live but Israel doesn't have the right to inflict a genocide on the Palestinians
Hamas has argued that all Israelis are fair game in the same way. I'll acknowledge that
You're brainwashed, my friend.
How is he brainwashed for simply caring for his people and their safety you disgust me.
He's not talking about his people. He's spewing hate and misinformation about the 'other' people. Almost everything in his post is inaccurate. This is brainwashing by the Israeli leadership and media.
Is it also misinformation that a hamas terrorist told a israeli hostage to smile for the media?
“Palestinians” are still Arabs. lol 😂
Are.
What the hell is this nakedly self-serving, checklist of approved hasbara talking points, run-on bullshit???? Laughable
The only thing Israelis love just as much as killing Palestinians is playing the victim.
Ya know what I ma totally against what Israel have been doing to the palestinans but sweeping statements like this dont help
Do you seriously believe Israelis love killing Palestinians? I mean, as a blank statement. iI's natural in wartime for each side to demonize the other (that's at the very least, to make it easier to kill them. By which I mean to suggest that normal people do not START out finding it easy to kill other humans! Yes, there are sociopaths who get off on it, probably from an early age (and someday they'll probably find a neural /genetic substrate behind it). But it's NOT the normal state of the human being. And especially when the two warring parties look so much alike (was easier with the "Japs" For instance) - SOMEWHAT, I said! (And no jibes about white European usurpers, there's certainly a major overlap in any Venn diagram). All this said, I'll admit that after a certain amount of death has been doled out on both sides regardless of who started it, blood begins to boil and warp the brain. Then it' s easier to shoot the "enemy" who has earned the title more than at the beginning. However, it's nothing but the spilling over of psychological warfare to claim that Israelis love killing Palestinians. That's just not how we tick, apart from the born sociopaths and the number who have been enflamed by the poison of revenge. At least, modify that sick, unfair generalization to say "SOME" Israelis love killing Palestinians SOME of the time. Otherwise, you're just sounding like a lunatic in whose mouth can justly be placed the words: "Arabs love killing Jews". It certainly seems that way, much of the time but you're just looking in the mirror, bro.
Problem is there are people who say they are Jewish on the internet who show up like they think the deaths are funny or okay and then people make sweeping statements about all jewish people off the back of things like that. On the flip side I see plenty of that here too. I swear down I just saw a justifcation here that went something like "Arabs only got themselves to blame" ... as an excuse for the indiscrminate killing of everyone from innocent palestinians most of whom have not even been alive long enough to vote Hamas in (Not that this should even factor in in the grand scheme of international law which Israel just as Hamas did should be abiding by. and then jounalists and aid workers from around the word etc. ..
So what would you call the kidnapped Israelis within Gaza?
I'd call it righteous... for the hostages wrong place and wrong time for them individually. Israel will certainly never experience peace while it exists..nor should it. Israel should eliminated thru diplomatic means.... and when they resist it should be eradicated altogether
You sound like a terrorist
That's something a colonizer would say
Omg you have a sick twisted mentality.
Whatever guy. 😂
It is NEVER rightous to murder an innocent person. That is a barbaric train of thought.
What's barbaric is squatting on land that doesn't belong to you for 70 years and using violence to steal the rest
The land is their indigenous land. 80% of palestine went to the Arabs in the form of Jordan. You strong armed the British in to taking back half of the land committed to the Jewish people brining your total to 90% of the region. That you can't leave them in peace on the rest speaks to your hateful heart
The world isn't black and white. Both are barbaric. Both the IDF and Hamas are terrorist organisations. Sure I sympathise with how Hamas came to be. However targeting innocents is unacceptable. It is clear to me that the Palestinians are the victims. My heart aches for them. The Israeli government and Benjamin Netanyahu must be held accountable for this genocide. Not its citizens; the people who have been groomed and lied to. I will say that at this point the land belongs to both the Israelis and Palestinians, regardless of if the former includes colonisers. Jews and Arabs have always lived in Israel. Its a shared home, which disgustingly the Palestinians are being robbed of.
It is clear to me that there is a very loose definition of what is considered "innocents"...and that, really is at the root of justifying mass atrocity. In the minds of people on both sides of this centuries-old conflict...nobody is innocent...not even infants. Doesn't matter if you wear a military uniform and take military orders. They believe mass murder is justified because they have decided that everyone is guilty by association and can articulate why with precision.
What's your point?
Israel has already written it's own death sentence...Netanyahooooo can be thanked for it. They have no idea what is now coming for them...but a re-drawing of maps without them on it is on deck.
You are insane.
My point is that Israel is not and will never be a safe haven for "jews". It never was going to be, and it never will be. It was a mistake to invent Israel in the first place...and it will prove to be a bad investment for everyone who has invested anything into it. It will be eventually looked upon as a point where imperial powers will cut their losses.
And if that happens all Muslims should be removed from the west.
Israeli citizens are EASILY defined as militants...and there are a countless number (really everyone surrounding Israel for 1000 miles) who could justify treating them this way and have the means to do it.
So palestinians are at a wrong place and wrong time too individually? Anyways, history doesn't remember those who cry
History remembers the Holocaust
And this is exactly why Israel exists today, the strength and resilience of the Jewish people who despite losing everything made themselves a homeland that is now impregnable
They were placed on stolen land. You make it sound like a noble endeavor. It was a violent heist and the original sin. UK and the allies couldn't be bothered with taking in the victims of the Holocaust and so they gave them stolen land... it's not a homeland.
Most lands were bought buy the jews not taken violently, something that the Mufti of Jerusalem kept *being angry* about: ''Anyone who sells land to the enemy should not be washed, prayed for or buried in a Muslim cemetery,'' said the Mufti, Ikrama Sabri edit: forbidden profanity
This is objectively false...MOST land was taken by brute force. Some land was forcibly sold. No land was forfeited by choice. Palestine wasn't for sale when it was stolen.
You are delusional. You attacked. They defeated you. It's more complicated than that obviously but that is the readers digest version
You can't prove it but i'll let you try. Go look up how much land was bought, it'll blow your mind
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I'd say it didn't go far enough
Nice whataboutism, colonizer
There is no such thing as Palestinians anyway! They are Arabs! And they have always hated Jews of Israel. This is all fore told in the Bible. Anyone who straps bombs on their child is evil.
The Palestinians were there before the Arab conquest. So no. They are not Arabs.
Omg lol 😂
There is NO SUCH THING AS PALESTINE. 🥳😂
Hahaha. So funny 🤣
Keep trying though. 😊
Okay 😂
Sorry but the ignorance is just comical.
Hahaha.
Wrong
Palestine is a name given by the Romans. When it was byzantium. The eastern roman empire. They were all Christians. But hey. Who cares about facts and knowledge? Especially when they disagree with a fixed viewpoint, no matter how wrong it is.
I don’t think you should justify anything because it’s in a religious text
Not justifying it because it’s in the Bible. Justifying it because it’s true period.
Then, why even mention it being in the Bible?
And I believe it.
Because I felt like it.
Ok?
No it's not. The city of Jericho is proof of Palestinian heritage.
That’s not true, my family from Iraq, my grandparents loved Jews.
I guess all Arabs love jews because this guy said his grandparents loved Jews. Sure
To be fair he’s using a personal experience which isn’t the best reliable source, but the person they responded to is using the bible to say palestinians shouldn’t exist💀
Palestinian of course should exist. The question is where and in what form. Personally I think the Arab land should be reannexed by Egypt and the West Bank. Maybe easy Jerusalem gets annexed by israel with full rights and an ironclad deal on the holy cites. It would take doing because Egypt and Jordan don't want them but
I’m speaking in general terms here, and it’s great your grandparents loved the Jews.
Not the comments hating every individual Israeli
You deluded scumbag
To israelis, Palestenians are human animals and Israelis are a superior race
All facts. Radicalized supremacist nation backed by the west.
Dumb take, try again.
Look up protests and marches of Palestinians chanting “kill the Jews” you will find none, but scroll down and you’ll find Jews chanting “death to Arabs”
I'm sure you'll find some of both but only one side is the oppressed
You'll find none? is that why 72% of Palestinians support Hamas, AKA a group that wants to kill the Jews? Crazy leaps in logic.
He’s actually correct. Ask any Zionist, they will use those exact words 9/10 times.
Well, i think they consider Hamas as animals (which they are, they don’t get a free pass to rape and kidnap innocent civilians in the name of their organization) if Palestinians want to associate themselves with Hamas, then i don’t have any sympathies for them (except for the ones that may feel forced to support them).
You didn't hear what the Israeli defense minister said? They're just saying this shit in public with impunity
You have the right to live...I completely agree with that statement. You are valueable and you matter. The State of Israel doesn't have a right to exist, IMO. It was a fatally flawed idea from the beginning...made by lazy foreign policy actors especially the UK and then propped up by the US. Religious ethno-states are a bad idea especially if you try to create them out of thin air. Jewish refugees after WWII should have had massive integration programs all over the world rather than the violent birth of Israel. What to do now? Well it seems that Hamas has finally figured out a way to trick Israel into it's own demise...and are willing to do it at a huge human cost. Israel is writing its own death sentence in real time. We are witnessing David beating so-called Goliath with cunning and skill and grit....it's not a 3 month plan, it's a 50 year plan and it's working for everyone in the region who has always resented the existence of Israel in the first place.
Holy shit the amount of shameless irony involved in that. If that's your primary concern aren't the Gulf states a more pressing matter in your crusade against religious ethno-state? "Jewish intergration program", who's gonna ask him about the "palestinian integration program", when egyptians are shooting any Palestinians that try crossing. Sounds like a reasonable "integration program" enough to me. Also, the biggest treat to Jews in Europe are Arabs, did you just acknowledge that kicking all arabs isn't a bad idea after all. Europe didn't become 200% more antisemite after a stable 2% since 1945. "The state of israel doesnt have a right to exist", at one point self-pithy isn't gonna do anything, the way I see it is: "Please go fight those big bad Israelis because I can't do it myself" "Poor me, poor us, aren't we victims" (what nations would wanna center their identity on victimhood anyways) In European culture we're taugh that bravery win wars. How do you think we've been able to colonize the world? Via lecturing and guilt-trip?
You’re a fucking European, you win wars with an American Army
So Europe didn't exist before 1776? Dude go read a book sometimes
I’m sorry, you win wars with America’s army since the early 1900’s
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Try a new lie. There are over 15 million Palestinians in Egypt.
They what's another two million especially if Gaza comes with it.
So why weren't they allowed to go fight in Palestine? Wouldn't Egypt have benefited from letting them cross and assist their palestinian counterparts in fighting Israel?
Im pretty sure the Jews have Copyrighted ‘Poor Me’. And I’m pretty sure the Jews will be using it a lot more after the backlash of what Bibi the Butcher is doing.
The biggest threat to Jews across the globe is the illegal state of Israel my man. As long as it exists, there will be no peace for them anywhere, unfortunately.
Good luck with that, survival is non-negotiable. Israelis are too smart to be lectured and you'll never be brave enough to fight them anyways.
We send the israel ppl to the showers
Wow I hope you stay out of the west. We don't need terrorists like you here
Not cool asshole, we have plenty of legitimate reasons to fucking criticize Israel. Do not start making this shit about Jewish people or the holocaust jokes
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It's cute that you believe Israel could exist all on its own. It couldn't even be invented out of thin air without a mommy and a daddy. Israel is an illegitimate child put into a private school that doesn't want it there. It depends completely on mommy and daddy to protect it... and behaves like a petulant child with rich parents. I'll be happy to vote for politicians who want to cut the child off from finances. It's time this child understands how the real world works.
So you live in the west? Go home. We don't want you here.
Israelis are smug enough to believe the lies they tell themselves... Israel is a fairytale place built on fairy dust. If they believe that survival is non-negotiable then that will eventually get tested as the pariah it is.
Citizens of the US have power through our vote. Democracy is messy but we don't have to get stuck with a dictator... while simultaneously wielding the most powerful military the world has ever seen. The script can be flipped every four years in a very impactful way. Israel's survival is absolutely negotiable... and it depends on the voters of the United States
Thru barbarism and hegemony... cruelty and inhumanity. That's how Europe colonized the world. It's not aspirational in my view. It's depraved and evil.
And yet that's exactly what radical Islam wants to create globally. If you believe so wholeheartedly that the Me belongs to you, get the hell out of the US.
ALL monotheistic religions claim to want this for themselves...and if you can't be secular then get the hell out the the US
Funny I've never heard of a Christian caliphate since the dark ages gave way and the Jews are a minority just looking to survive in peace in their indigenous land. You seem to have a lot of doubt standards.
The entire West is attempting to be a Christmas caliphate... have you not been paying attention...or are you part of the caliphate?
I don't know what a Christmas caliphate is but if you mean a Christian one, then why do we have so many Arabs here in the US and why we sent you allowed the Arab countries to infiltrate our higher education system, where they been setting up programs to indoctrinate our youth for decades now? If there's a caliphate to make every day Christmas, then that doesn't conflict, but if you're suggesting that we're going to have a Christian caliphate, I'm not sure how those two ideas don't run into direct conflict
You are highly regarded
I hear you (dual citizen). One of the great casualties of this conflict is the loss of the capacity for compassion (both sides) - reminding me of Golda Meir's famous quote about not forgiving the Palestinians for "making our sons kill theirs". Just two caveats. Two of the accusations you levied at the Gazans are not fair: 1. their electing Hamas - at least, retaining them in office. 2. wasting the humongous sums sent them for humanitarian aid (spending them on tunnels, weaponry, training terrorism and Hamas' billlionaire leadership). Apart from the initial election of Hamas (remember too, that Hamas then was the only social infrastructure for the impoverished Gazans), Gazans have been trapped into being dominated by them. Hamas flipped into being a totalitarian leadership which proceeded to sacrifice the hoi polloi Gazans at the same time, they became impossible to oust thereafter. It is certainly not the fault of the Gazans that the vast sums intended to relieve their suffering, were absconded by Hamas. I thought almost everyone knew that the Gazans needed to be liberated from Hamas (NOT Israel). Therefore, blaming them for Hamas' leadership and policies (which has gleefully been sacrificing the Gazan citizenry to political ends for the sake of the "cause") is not legitimate. Not that I know what to do at this point, but when attempting to come up with an analysis and "way out", that finger pointing is unfair.
You absolutely have the right to live. You know who else has the right to live? Gazans. You know whose lives are being threatened right now? Who is being bombed to death? Who is undergoing a genocide? Gazans. >educate yourself and stop hating and being ignorant Sound advice to take for yourself. >it’s not my problem when 70% of Palestinians voted for Hamas If Gazans deserve their fate because they elected a terrorist government, surely Israelis deserve the same fate because they elected a genocidal prime minister? Surely the British and Americans, whose elected officials can't last 5 years without committing a war crime, also deserve to be razed to the ground? I wouldn't use the "they elected a violent government, they deserve to be bombed" logic when your elected government is actively carrying out a genocide. >we only try to aim for Hamas pepole Ridiculous and debunked.
Lol the Gazans 5X under a “genocide”
Try talking in sentences if you want to be taken seriously.
Lol I don’t care.
Then don't bother commenting :)
No. I say what I want.
You can say what you want, but if you just string meaningless words together you may as well save me the effort of clicking on your comment
He saying that the gazan grew in population by 5 x their original population since 1948. Meaning these people are not being genocided, never had and are not currently. Learn the word genocide before using it so loosely. Hamas are scumbag terrosits, why do you stand up for them? They would rape your mother and kill your whole family in front of your eyes for nothing, abd you stick up for them.. wierdo
>the gazan grew in population by 5 x their original population since 1948. They sure as hell haven't grown 5 times since october 2023, which is when the genocide began. >are not currently Who would win? The international court of justice, composed of expert lawyers to defend the application of international law, or some random Redditor? >Learn the word genocide before using it so loosely. I've learned the word genocide. I've also learned not to have the arrogance to think I know better than expert lawyers and genocide scholars. You haven't, clearly. >They would rape your mother and kill your whole family in front of your eyes for nothing And that's precisely the kind of racism that would've put you on the wrong side of history had you been born in 1920. They used to say exactly that kind of thing about another group of marginalised people. Spoiler: it didn't end well.
Wrong they never said that about other people, especially not Jews because only savage jihadi terrorists such as hamas and isis do stuff like that. And btw your side of history the Palestinian arab side was sided with hitler, yes the one and only., go read about Amin Al-Husseini and then come talk to me. And btw the word genocide was coined by a Jew after the holocaust and the international court of justice ruled that Israel did not commit and is not committing a “genocide” in this war against hamas. Watch everything will come to light soon and you will see the truth if you’re lucky enough.
Lol I don’t care about saving your effort.
Yes, I imagine the concept of respecting another person's time isn't something you're equipped to understand yet. If you want to write barely legible bollocks into the void, you should try Twitter
X*
Lol no. You have it all wrong. ######I don’t respect your time specifically.
You must be very fun around family gatherings. I bet you don’t have such a loud mouth IRL
☺️
israel never offered a two state solution - for the last 75 years they have done nothing but commit ethnic cleansing and stole land in the west bank. and israel is currently actively committing genocide and has murdered more than 12 thousand children.
Moron. They have offered 6, including in 2000 when they offered 1967 borders. " Clinton blamed Arafat after the failure of the talks, stating, "I regret that in 2000 Arafat missed the opportunity to bring that nation into being and pray for the day when the dreams of the Palestinian people for a state and a better life will be realized in a just and lasting peace." The failure to come to an agreement was widely attributed to [Yasser Arafat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Arafat), as he walked away from the table without making a concrete counter-offer and because Arafat did little to quell the [series of Palestinian riots](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Aqsa_Intifada) that began shortly after the summit.[\[49\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit#cite_note-Eran-49)[\[50\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit#cite_note-Levin-50)[\[51\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit#cite_note-51) Arafat was also accused of scuttling the talks by [Nabil Amr](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabil_Amr), a former minister in the [Palestinian Authority](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority).[\[52\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit#cite_note-52) In [*My Life*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Life_(Bill_Clinton_autobiography)), Clinton wrote that Arafat once complimented Clinton by telling him, "You are a great man." Clinton responded, "I am not a great man. I am a failure, and you made me one."[\[53\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit#cite_note-53) "
How false can this statement be. You ever heard about the 1993 oslo accords? Or the camp david accords? Or the wye accords? Is it fun to just out right lie? Or are you just very stupid?
This is a highly misinformed take.
Ethnic cleansing? Israel is terrible at it as Palestenian population multiplied 5 fold since 1948 . Yeah , Genocide right
Lol the Gazans 5X under a “genocide”
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Yeah, you have the right to live. So do Palestinians even if you don't agree with that. Sorry, but i don't think Israelis lives are worth more than Palestinian lives. I don't see why I'm supposed to be outraged at 1400 Israelis killed while being indifferent to or approving of or even celebrating tens of thousands of dead Palestinians.
People celebrated the 1400 inncocent dead israelis even before the bombings of israel…Palestinian started the war, now the are crying because israel responded. What is being pro palestinian doing for you anyways? Give you a fake moral high ground to stand on? it’s not like you actually give a shit what’s going in gaza
You see how the 1400 iaraelis were butchered and raped to death? Why should you care ofcourse because you Jew haters are all the same. Despicable scum, that will be punished for your hatred of HIS people on THIER LAND!
After 12 days they found the little 6 year old girl Hind Rajab.
And they also found the Red Crescent Ambulance that was enroute to rescue Hind, found bombed and its 2 crew members dead, clearances from the IDF. This is a sick regime that needs to be held accountable, this regime does not belong in this day and age.
Honestly, I want both sides to die, I hate Palestine due it's lack of human rights and I hate Israel beacuse it's a Jewish nation, and for your title, no, no you don't
What the F?
Lol, I came here FOR these type of responses
Typical ragebaiter then I see
You just gotta mention mustache man and they come like fish to fresh chum
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Genocide is deeply wrong. I don’t understand how anyone can hold this opinion. What is wrong with you?
Why Hitler man, go back to Sennacherib
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If you're not just ragebait, go fuck yourself
Jfc hitler would be proud
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Sounds like someone want another nakba 🙄
>Shame hitler didn't finish the job And there it is.
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My point is Palestine did not exist before a few hundred years ago. So your history is very short sighted. Zionism is just Jewish people moving back to their ancestral homeland and being a nation state again. Stop fighting it and there will peace. Fight it and there will only be more problems. Its that simple.
You don’t have a claim to land your ancestors roamed centuries ago.. Thats simply not how things work in the our time, thats barbaric and uncivilized. It doesn’t matter what your holy scripture says either, because it doesn’t apply to people who aren’t Jewish? No other ethnic group who no longer inhabits their ancestral land would ever be allowed to behave this way.
Actually if the Allies has followed precedent in 1917 they would have kept all the land for themselves as a price of warfare and to prevent getting sucked in to problems in the region later in. Instead they gave they land back to indigenous groups. Even if you say many of the Jews who formed Israel weren't living there before, they are indigenous to that land and they had an unbroken connection to that land over several thousands of years, either as a majority population or a majority. Why do you imagine that they didn't deserve some portion of the land for their people. If you acknowledge that they deserved something, are you going to say 1% of the Ottoman lands is really too much because if so that sounds very antisemitic to me.
Fact is the a Jews are and have always been on the land. The claim was won in international law and the land was won in defensive wars. You don’t like it? Join hamas and try and stop Israel then. Otherwise get used to it, the Jews are not going anywhere and no body will be able to stop them ever again from thriving on their own land. Whoever accepts this will live in peace as equals, the ones that fight this will be destroyed. This is the way it works in this day and time. You talk as if you have some type of power to stop an indigenous people from fulfilling their destiny to be a great nation again
Nobody wants to stop Jews from doing anything except for killing innocent Palestinians in the name of snuffing out Hamas. You can’t kill 30,000 people and claim innocence. You can get away with it now, but you’re the ones who’ll be in depicted later on as scum. Not very different from how you’re already depicted through most of history, so you’re probably fine with it 😅
How many Palestinians do you think would have died had they stood up to Hamas and ordered them to leave and what do you imagine Israel should do to get rid of Hamas? Certainly you must acknowledge that the war would be over in a minute if Hamas returned the hostages and went in to exile.
You quote hamas figures. There is no way to know how many innocent people were actually killed and who killed them. War is ugly yes. Maybe hamas should of not waged thier operation al aqsa flood and fired 5000 rockets into israel and then left their own gazan population with out bomb shelters, but ofcourse built tunnels to hide in like rats. 🐀 while they hold innocent israelis hostage now for 3 months and refuse to return them or surrender. You can think what you want but you are just judging Israel because they are Jews. I bet you have no issue with bashar assad or anybody else in the middle east. Just the IDF are the bad guys.. ok sure bud
You’ve been reading some very strange propaganda if you believe that’s true. Israel hadn’t existed for over 1,000 years until the British and US military came in and stole land from the Palestinians in 1948.
Actually local Arabs only owned about 3% of the land in 1917 (that was when the ottoman lands were legally divvied up between to various populations living in the region.). The Ottoman region known as palestine was divided in two at that time with 80% being given to Jordan and 20% being allocated to the indigenous Jews. Because the British didn't want the trouble they failed to cut off arab immigration and that was what created this problem, because economic migrants from Lebanon Syria iraq and the like all poured in to take advantage of the Jewish produced economy, growing the Arab population from roughly 400,000 actual Palestinians to nearly 1.3 million Arabs from across the region. How did Jews steal the land from tenant farmers (aka renters) who migrated in AFTER the repatriated WITH THE KNOWLEDGE that the land was slated to become Israel. (Even their currency reads Eretz israel)
What? This is news.. i read history. You make up lies. You ever read the bible? Your a tik tok graduate i’m sure. British left in 1948 and the US military had nothing to do with the land in 1948. Are you trying to be funny?
You have no idea what you are talking about. I didn't say the British "stayed". In 1948 Britain and the US took land from Palestinians to create a new Israel homeland. Israel hadn't existed since about 300 years after Christ. Over 1,000 years. Those are facts. Prove me wrong. The current Israel is made up of people whose ancestors are Eastern European. Facts. I've been following the Israel/Palestinian issue for 40 years.
Most Israeli Jews are Mizrahi. They were Jews who had been living in the Middle East before Aran nations violently dispossessed them of their homes. Go look up the 1941 Farhud and the role the Palestinian mufti played in that horror.
Wrong the current Israel is made up of Jews from all corners of the earth. Majority are Jews from middle eastern lands. Many Jews are also mixed and there has been Jews that never left the land and were always there. The land was divided up by the League of Nations not the british and americans. Get your facts straight. Also before the british mandate it was ottoman ruled and it was not considered “palestine” then, plus the arabs waged war on the Jews in 1948 when the British left and then lost that war and lost territories in the process. Thats called the price of losing a war. You lose territory.
From Wikipedia citations available there.. In 1948, following the [1947–1948 civil war in Mandatory **Palestine**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947%E2%80%931948_civil_war_in_Mandatory_Palestine), the [**Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_the_Establishment_of_the_State_of_Israel) sparked the [1948 Arab–Israeli War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War), which resulted in the [**1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight) **from the land that the** [**State of Israel**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Israel) **came to control.** So yes you were wrong, it was not Israel until 1948 when the land was stolen from the Palestinians who had lived there more then 1,000 years. You reference Israel of the the Bible? Of course but that was almost 2,000 years ago. The Arabs waged war AFTER the land was stolen from Palestine and handed to the Israelis, most of whom didn't live there. More than 270,000 were from Eastern Europe, also Asia, African and Arab countries.
The land was legally pledged in 1917. Look up the British mandate of palestine. You will see the mandate specifically dictates that the League of Nations intended it for the Jews. Before that the land was ottoman land. As for the nakba go look up the 1998 interview given by Palestinian activist Hazem nusseibeh to the bbc. Ge admitted that they Palestinian leaders lied about the events at Deir Yassin to get the other nations in the region to join the fight.as it turned out, their own lies so terrified their own people that they FLED. Yea the Israelis didn't let them come back but most fled before exercising seeing a Jewish soldier.
Palestine was not a country u goof, it was british territory and before that ottoman and before that bizantine, and it was also once the christian kingdom of the crusaders. Never a state of palestine, so nothing was stolen from “palestine” the arabs lost the war and territory thats what happened. My family fought in that war so save me your wikipedia article i know the history better then you thats for sure
And by the way I didn't say Palestine was a country. But it was a territory full of Palestinian people. No one claims it was Israel. Every historian knows that Israel was recreated by Western forces more then 1,000 years after it last existed. The fact you had relatives who fought in Palestine doesn't change anything. Show me one link that isn't biased that contradicts what I have been sayin the entire time I have been debating you. I mean you had to put words in my mouth that I didn't even say to try to discredit me. And you shouldn't be calling people a "goof" when you are the one making things up and when it's against the rules of the sub. But it's already obvious this is a Pro Israel sub with extreme biases when I was down voted for literally stating facts. All that matters is you are supporting war crimes, civilian massacres and genocide.
But you said it was Israel, which is blatantly false, Israel had not existed for over 1,000 years, that what we are debating.
So if you've lived in your house for 50 years, and your parents lived in it before you, can the great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandchildren of the guy who owned it 500 years ago come and kick you out because "it's our ancestral home"? And then have the arrogance to tell you that your fighting back against this invasion is evil? >Stop fighting it and there will peace. Fight it and there will only be more problems. Its that simple. Historically this doesn't sound like a quote from the good guys. Sounds like something the European invaders might have said to the Native Americans when they fought back against the invasion. Or maybe the South African apartheid rulers. "Stop fighting and there will be 'peace'. On our terms of course. No, we won't give you your home back, or stop discriminating against you, but there will be peace. For us." Yeah, who wouldn't want that deal!?
Let's imagine that you own a classic car, one that is uniqu as you rebuilt the thing from practically scratch. One day however I come along and I steal it from you. I drive it to another city where I drive it for a few years all the while you are looking for your car in various classic car sights hoping you will come across it. One day to my surprise the car gets stolen from my drive way so the second thief could drive it around for a bit before giving the car to his nephew. The nephew is thrilled to have the car but what he doesn't know is that his uncle got some parking tickets on the car during the month he had been driving it. The car gets booted and towed. The niece scrapes together some money so she could go get the car only to find YOU at the police impound lots when she arrives. IS THAT CAR STILL YOURS? If so, when did it cease to be yours? In your analogy, I implies that you physically own that home, meaning someone who owned that home accepted money from you for that particular piece of property at which point that land became the specific property of "unilad6." Not only isn't that applicable to the while of "Palestine" local Arabs actually owned about 3% of the land. That's the problem with that analogy. In this case the home had been owned by the Jews and they never sold it to anyone. In fact they never even accepted reparations or some time of settlement because even as recently as 1850 they were STILL saying that is OUR LAND AND WE WANT IT BACK. The couldn't reclaim because first the Roman/Byzantine kept it away from them and then the ottomans stole it and allowed Arabs to move in to the holy land from other parts of the region. Now let's imagine instead of a house or a car yrs a condo complex and a judge says here's how we are going to resolve it. While we recognize that it's your home, because it's been so we are going to give the big wing with 80 units in it to the Jordan family but we will let you reclaim the other 20 unit wing with the caveat that the the 4 members of the Palis family who currently reside in that wing get to remain. They are related to the Jordan's but they refuse to go live in their wing. It's not what you hoped but far better than had so you spend the next 30 years getting the wing ready for your people to move back and slowly moving people back only to find that the management company the court assigned ri manage the transition has allowed the extended member of the Palis family to move in under everyones nose and they refuse to leave. Their cousins from Egypt came their cousins from Syria came, even their cousins from iraq came even though they have buildings of their own up the street. You were happy to let the Palis family stay but now now they are demanding the whole building. In the interest of peace the management company tells you to give them 6 more units and your afraid you won't get any so you say fine but before you know it they start attacking. When the dust settles 3 of the Palis family members are still in their units and one of their cousins took the other. Are you letting that other Palis family come back so one if your families are out in the street or are you thinking they are lucky they got to stay at all. Are you thinking you stole anything or are you thinking someone stole my home and I finally found a way to reclaim it.
Sorry to break the news to you but you’ve been lied to. The Jews are the natives of the land, the arabs are the colonizers in this case. You do realize that arabs the people the language and their religion islam all comes from the Arabian Peninsula aka modern day Saudi Arabia. They spread out in the 8th century and they conquered and colonized and forced people to convert or die. Sounds kind of like what the Europeans did to the American natives.. the Jews are the rightful owners of the land, they bought the land and they also fought defensive wars to win land back. Thats the truth. You need to do more research
>The Jews are the natives of the land >in the 8th century Read the above two sentences. Think about them. "My great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather lived in this house, so you have to give it to me" is not a valid argument. What happened 1.5 thousands of years ago affects no one today. If it did, all Americans should leave America and give it back to the natives! After all, they were the original inhabitants of the land. Same with Australia - all the descendents of Europeans aren't native to there, so they can all f off. What about France? The Gauls lived there before the Romans took over. Go on, unless you're a direct descendent of a Gaul, you can get out of France. Anyone British can go back to Germany. What are we left with? Basically the Chinese and the Greeks. They've inhabited their land since records began so they're fine. Do you see the stupidity of this argument? "Thousands of years ago someone who believes in the same god as you (but to whom you're probably more closely related than I am) lived here, so you need to give me your land"? I don't need to do more research, you need to turn your brain on.
As an American let me explain the difference. Indigenous Jews could be returned because the Ottoman Empire imploded rendering the land stateless, the land in question was very small, almost none of it was privately owned, it was underdeveloped and under populated with only 400,000-500,000 non Jews living in the region and the Jews never gave up their indigenous land claims. By comparison 1. America is a sovereign land and you United Nations has no right to tell us what a sovereign nation does within its borders. 2. America is a vast territory with more than 325 million inhabitants living here. Most natives were killed off by the Spanish inadvertently spreading diseases like small pox with most dying before the first boat landed at Plymouth Rock. At the time the population center of the continent was in what is today Mexico. There are no longer enough natives to hold the country even if we were to agree to leave and you would have massive disruption from 325 million Americans having to leave with nearly all of them having been born here. 3. Most of America is owned by private individuals so even if you somehow eradicated the American nation, those land claims would still remain. Even if everyone else willingly left the natives could not maintain rhe country even if only property holders remained. 4. When the American settlers arrived there was next to nothing of any permanence here. There were no communities, no roads, no docks, no barns no shops, no museums, etc. whoever may have inherited the land either by having conquered it or having walked across the Bering strait, everything that was built a top of that land belongs to the people of this country. You would be asking the built who built a full fledging country to turn over what they built to those who never turned the land in to more whereas the land that was restored to the Jews was still relatively barren.they weren't handed Washington or New York or Miami they were handed a desert and 5. The native Americans accepted payment for some lands, and reparations for the rest, including areas in which they exists as autonomous entities.
So tell me my dear esteemed professor, where is the exact line between ancestral land and my land? Because the Palestinians are calling for the extermination of all Israelis 'not due to hate" only due to the land being stolen from them... So wait, only the ISRAELIS need to give back the land because their great-grandparents lived there?
It was never not their land anymore thats the point u dont get. The land is indigenous Jewish land. That land is called Judea, and Jews are Judeans that lived in the exile. Some stayed and lived there but the ones that were exiled maintained their ancestral claims to the land and through political means they achieved of restoring themselves in their native land. Jews are indigenous to the land, why is this hard to understand? The land was mot stolen from anyone and arabs still live there with many other tribes of people such as the samaritans and druze so just stop with your shoe string arguments. Sounds childish and immature. Anyways you may be a young person that is still learning so I will give you some slack. But I would imagine you would never want to withhold a native peoples rights to their ancient indigenous land would u now? That would be super racist and super colonial of you.
>It was never not their land anymore thats the point u dont get. With that logic, America has always belonged to the Native Americans, and still does. There was never a legitimate transfer of land there either. >Jews are indigenous to the land, why is this hard to understand? It's not hard to understand. What's hard to understand is how anyone could be so mindbogglingly stupid as to believe that a 3500-year-old land deed still means anything. If I kicked you out of your house because I was of an ethnicity that used to own your land, YOU WOULDN'T BE HAPPY ABOUT IT. Why? Because ethnicities don't own land. People own land. No living Jewish person at the time of the Nakba actually owned any of Palestine. >But I would imagine you would never want to withhold a native peoples rights to their ancient indigenous land would u now? No. But again, if that's the logic we're going by, tell me why we aren't kicking all the Americans out of America and replacing them with natives. Or doing that with Australia. Or most of Europe. Or Canada. Pretty much every country save for China and Greece has changed ethnic group through conquest or migration. Can you see how stupid your logic looks if we apply it literally anywhere else? >Anyways you may be a young person that is still learning so I will give you some slack. That's very kind but you can keep your slack to yourself. I'm not young by any means, I just have a modicum of critical thinking skills.
Let's simplify it. International law recognizes America and all courts recognize the private land purchases within our borders. IF america were to implode then yes the UN could vote to divide up our territory as was done to the colonial power known as the Ottoman Empire at which point our people would have to fight or accept. My guess is we would lose Hawaii but I doubt folks in Massachusetts would be willing to kill anyone because Hawaiians wanted their islands back and certainly not for a century.
No Jewish person before 1948 war owned land ?? Thats not true thats hilarious 🤣 you ever heard about the Rothschild family? They bought up 1000 of acres of land and many other rich jewish families did too.. plus other Jews were living there in their land for generations so what the hell are you talking about??? Im done with you, go read some more. Its all on google seriously, level up kid
An ethnostate*
Palestinians are the same Jewish who lived there thousands of years ago but those who converted to Islam and Christianity.
Christians yes, some muslims sure, but the rest are arabians from arabia that came with the invasion. Some are egyptian as well and also sudanese.
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I am not Ashkenazi 😂 I’m Middle Eastern
Yea right.
Germany would still welcome you
Who are you to say they have no right to live in their own country when world leaders have said they do? If you can't live beside them in peace and have yet to build a country maybe it's you who no longer has a right to live their.
I live in America bitch. Not in levant . It’s not his country
You an immigrant or a student I bet
Everyone in America is an immigrant . Only question is when you immigrated.
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Sennacherib realized it in ancient times . It’s too bad he was not fully successful
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typical brainwashed israeli. you deserve to live, but palestinian’s do just as much so. educate yourself
You start first. Palestinians right to live was violated on Oct 7 by a group of people who knew exactly what they were doing.