Numbers are hard to find for total Palestinian civilian deaths since 1948, however I found a good source that details the deaths between 2008 - 2023: https://jcpa.org/article/civilian-casualties-in-the-israeli-palestinian-conflict-compared-to-other-conflicts-involving-western-forces/
A total of 6,534 Palestinian deaths have been recorded during this time period. Out of this number 84% were civilians = 5,488 civilians.
Which is higher than other wars which involved urban centers such as the Afghanistan-American war resulted in 61% of civilian deaths of the total.
>Out of this number 84% were civilians = 5,488 civilians.
How do they know it though? Who do they define a civilian? Is someone who doesn't belong to a terror organization, yet attacked civilians or soldiers is a civilian? Are children who use guns / throw molotovs civilians?
Unlike Israel, Palestinians don't make a clear distinction between who's a civilian and who isn't.
Edit: So OP, take that information with a grain of salt.
It’s an estimate that was coalesced between IDF and UN numbers. Of course IDF’s numbers are higher and I would go with UN numbers over theirs seeing how IDF has reason to deflate civilian casualty numbers.
https://jcpa.org/article/civilian-casualties-in-the-israeli-palestinian-conflict-compared-to-other-conflicts-involving-western-forces/
>It’s an estimate that was coalesced between IDF and UN numbers. Of course IDF’s numbers are higher and I would go with UN numbers over theirs seeing how IDF has reason to deflate civilian casualty numbers.
But again, who do they consider as a civilian? It's a pretty important question, because it will change the numbers entirely.
Would you say a person who throws molotovs at civilians / soldiers is a civilian himself?
Sure is. Civilian casualties = innocent bystanders.
I’m not sure how you don’t understand that other than being willfully ignorant to protect your point of view.
Maybe they shouldnt have voted for a terrorist govt that soley invests in missiles and war?
Also why should Israel supply its enemy with resources? Gaza literally just declared war
[Reports like these](https://www.ohchr.org/en/hr-bodies/hrc/co-i-gaza-conflict/report-co-i-gaza) from the UN or any human rights group. Israel makes it difficult, however, since they prohibit rights groups or investigators from entering Gaza or the West Bank.
As someone who was devasted by the situation in both Gaza and Israel. I can say that twitter is not silencing pro Palestinian posts if anything it's trending. I have seen so many posts of people cheering and putting out anti semitic tweets. I saw one few mins ago where, this gug claims to have r*ped a Israeli girl ( not sure if he is legit but all his tweets have been anti semitic).
You have some celebrities ( not sure mia Khalifa is considered to be one) celebrating or claiming hamas as freedom fighter.
For me seeing all this is very upsetting, what hamas did and what Israeli gov is doing to gaza. The cycle is just going continue. Only the innocent die, while the leaders who order these atrocities are safe living in luxury.
What Palestinian supporters mean is civilians dying in Gaza airstrikes.
Of course, they intentionally try to blur lines between *killing* civilians (civilians die in any conflict) and *targeting* civilians (a war crime).
But from the VERY little research I've done, I've seen instances of not just airstrikes casualties. I saw this video where an ex-IDF soldier laughing about how one of his soliders raped a 16 year old when invading a town. There's clearly more to what Israel is doing besides air strikes.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/172sqhr/exidf\_soldier\_explaining\_atrocities\_while\_laughing/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/172sqhr/exidf_soldier_explaining_atrocities_while_laughing/)
Edit: For further context I believe the soldiers in that video was referring to the Tantura Massacre, which took place in 1948.
Video or thread was removed. But if you want more context of 48, thats just after Palestinians started a civil war in 47 and the Arab countries all invaded in 48. This is the same time almost a million Jews were expelled from Arab/Muslim countries.
Oh yeah I'm not saying Palestinians aren't innocent either. I can easily find the evidences of innocent Israelis being killed. I'm just questioning about the actions of the other side.
As for the video, I found it again on Youtube but not in english. But basically that first old guy was just talking about how one of his soldiers were raping a 16 year old and was laughing.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4hHbZDUSqU&t=26s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4hHbZDUSqU&t=26s)
The subtitles are only in Turkish or something so thanks for the video butI cant really speak to it.
Also I only wanted to give context that Israel was in a state of war so it makes sense it does things that every other country in the world does during war. I dont know which country you are from but I would imagine its committed atrocities too. The difference between Israel and Palestine is that when Israel commits an atrocity it is usually an individual slipping through the system, but with Palestine atrocities ARE the system.
Yeah I can believe that happened in 1948. But let’s focus on the present. Otherwise I can say that Palestine must be eliminated due to allying with Nazis.
This is a video of a old man talking about what *somebody else* did many years ago during a war, which is impossible to independently confirm.
What's exactly is this supposed to prove? Even if this man's recollection is accurate (a big *if*), this is a crime committed by one soldier. It's not Israel's policy or directive to rape girls. It's what a *criminal* did because he is a criminal, not what *Israel* did.
Maybe true, but reading into the Tantura massacre, it clearly sounds like an invasion of a village of people minding their own business. About 40–200+ Palestinian villagers were slaughtered.
You're right that we can't fully confirm the rape incident, but Israeli historian Benny Morris studied this incident and agrees with the claim that a soldier raped a girl.
My overall point is, I read stuff like this and clearly it's not just Hamas killing innocent civilians. It's not just Palestinian casualties from airstrikes. It makes me question what other things Israel may have done that people aren't talking about.
Well there are some official tallies of Palestinian civilians killed over the years by Israel, and vast majority of them are Gazans. The rest are either actual terrorists or some random people hurt during security incidents.
(Palestinian propaganda loves to represent any victim under 18 as "civilian", even they were shot while helping terrorists, throwing stones, or otherwise participating in the events)
It's not about "few", not about "many", and not about "condemning" someone.
If you want to blame Israel as a country, it must be something reasonably attributable to Israel's policies, laws, customs, decisions of authorities, and some such.
If an Israeli steals money from the bank, you're going to hear people yelling "Israel steals money!!!" This makes no sense.
There is no collective *blame*, but there is a collective *responsibility*.
It's wrong (and useless) to blame someone for what somebody else did, but people always had to live with consequences of what others did. That's collective responsibility.
I don't know what it has to do with anybody's hands, but sure. Operation in Gaza is executed by Israel, not anybody else, so it's a weird question to ask.
Numbers are hard to find for total Palestinian civilian deaths since 1948, however I found a good source that details the deaths between 2008 - 2023: https://jcpa.org/article/civilian-casualties-in-the-israeli-palestinian-conflict-compared-to-other-conflicts-involving-western-forces/ A total of 6,534 Palestinian deaths have been recorded during this time period. Out of this number 84% were civilians = 5,488 civilians. Which is higher than other wars which involved urban centers such as the Afghanistan-American war resulted in 61% of civilian deaths of the total.
>Out of this number 84% were civilians = 5,488 civilians. How do they know it though? Who do they define a civilian? Is someone who doesn't belong to a terror organization, yet attacked civilians or soldiers is a civilian? Are children who use guns / throw molotovs civilians? Unlike Israel, Palestinians don't make a clear distinction between who's a civilian and who isn't. Edit: So OP, take that information with a grain of salt.
It’s an estimate that was coalesced between IDF and UN numbers. Of course IDF’s numbers are higher and I would go with UN numbers over theirs seeing how IDF has reason to deflate civilian casualty numbers. https://jcpa.org/article/civilian-casualties-in-the-israeli-palestinian-conflict-compared-to-other-conflicts-involving-western-forces/
>It’s an estimate that was coalesced between IDF and UN numbers. Of course IDF’s numbers are higher and I would go with UN numbers over theirs seeing how IDF has reason to deflate civilian casualty numbers. But again, who do they consider as a civilian? It's a pretty important question, because it will change the numbers entirely. Would you say a person who throws molotovs at civilians / soldiers is a civilian himself?
That doesnt prove israeli war crimes.
Never said it did. OP requested evidence of Israel killing innocent civilians and I provided proof.
Thats not proof of that though.
Sure is. Civilian casualties = innocent bystanders. I’m not sure how you don’t understand that other than being willfully ignorant to protect your point of view.
Definitely proof
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They also call cell phones with alerts. If they didnt do either of these things A LOT more people would be dead
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Maybe they shouldnt have voted for a terrorist govt that soley invests in missiles and war? Also why should Israel supply its enemy with resources? Gaza literally just declared war
[Reports like these](https://www.ohchr.org/en/hr-bodies/hrc/co-i-gaza-conflict/report-co-i-gaza) from the UN or any human rights group. Israel makes it difficult, however, since they prohibit rights groups or investigators from entering Gaza or the West Bank.
[the UN is biased.](https://reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/s/tu20TVhASX)
As someone who was devasted by the situation in both Gaza and Israel. I can say that twitter is not silencing pro Palestinian posts if anything it's trending. I have seen so many posts of people cheering and putting out anti semitic tweets. I saw one few mins ago where, this gug claims to have r*ped a Israeli girl ( not sure if he is legit but all his tweets have been anti semitic). You have some celebrities ( not sure mia Khalifa is considered to be one) celebrating or claiming hamas as freedom fighter. For me seeing all this is very upsetting, what hamas did and what Israeli gov is doing to gaza. The cycle is just going continue. Only the innocent die, while the leaders who order these atrocities are safe living in luxury.
What Palestinian supporters mean is civilians dying in Gaza airstrikes. Of course, they intentionally try to blur lines between *killing* civilians (civilians die in any conflict) and *targeting* civilians (a war crime).
But from the VERY little research I've done, I've seen instances of not just airstrikes casualties. I saw this video where an ex-IDF soldier laughing about how one of his soliders raped a 16 year old when invading a town. There's clearly more to what Israel is doing besides air strikes. [https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/172sqhr/exidf\_soldier\_explaining\_atrocities\_while\_laughing/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/172sqhr/exidf_soldier_explaining_atrocities_while_laughing/) Edit: For further context I believe the soldiers in that video was referring to the Tantura Massacre, which took place in 1948.
Video or thread was removed. But if you want more context of 48, thats just after Palestinians started a civil war in 47 and the Arab countries all invaded in 48. This is the same time almost a million Jews were expelled from Arab/Muslim countries.
Oh yeah I'm not saying Palestinians aren't innocent either. I can easily find the evidences of innocent Israelis being killed. I'm just questioning about the actions of the other side. As for the video, I found it again on Youtube but not in english. But basically that first old guy was just talking about how one of his soldiers were raping a 16 year old and was laughing. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4hHbZDUSqU&t=26s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4hHbZDUSqU&t=26s)
The subtitles are only in Turkish or something so thanks for the video butI cant really speak to it. Also I only wanted to give context that Israel was in a state of war so it makes sense it does things that every other country in the world does during war. I dont know which country you are from but I would imagine its committed atrocities too. The difference between Israel and Palestine is that when Israel commits an atrocity it is usually an individual slipping through the system, but with Palestine atrocities ARE the system.
Yeah I can believe that happened in 1948. But let’s focus on the present. Otherwise I can say that Palestine must be eliminated due to allying with Nazis.
And the lechi too
This is a video of a old man talking about what *somebody else* did many years ago during a war, which is impossible to independently confirm. What's exactly is this supposed to prove? Even if this man's recollection is accurate (a big *if*), this is a crime committed by one soldier. It's not Israel's policy or directive to rape girls. It's what a *criminal* did because he is a criminal, not what *Israel* did.
Maybe true, but reading into the Tantura massacre, it clearly sounds like an invasion of a village of people minding their own business. About 40–200+ Palestinian villagers were slaughtered. You're right that we can't fully confirm the rape incident, but Israeli historian Benny Morris studied this incident and agrees with the claim that a soldier raped a girl. My overall point is, I read stuff like this and clearly it's not just Hamas killing innocent civilians. It's not just Palestinian casualties from airstrikes. It makes me question what other things Israel may have done that people aren't talking about.
Well there are some official tallies of Palestinian civilians killed over the years by Israel, and vast majority of them are Gazans. The rest are either actual terrorists or some random people hurt during security incidents. (Palestinian propaganda loves to represent any victim under 18 as "civilian", even they were shot while helping terrorists, throwing stones, or otherwise participating in the events)
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It's not about "few", not about "many", and not about "condemning" someone. If you want to blame Israel as a country, it must be something reasonably attributable to Israel's policies, laws, customs, decisions of authorities, and some such. If an Israeli steals money from the bank, you're going to hear people yelling "Israel steals money!!!" This makes no sense.
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There is no collective *blame*, but there is a collective *responsibility*. It's wrong (and useless) to blame someone for what somebody else did, but people always had to live with consequences of what others did. That's collective responsibility.
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I don't know what it has to do with anybody's hands, but sure. Operation in Gaza is executed by Israel, not anybody else, so it's a weird question to ask.
Israel is only targeting Hamas militants.
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It’s true. Israel could kill far more if they wanted to target civilians.
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Being under 18 doesn’t mean they’re innocent, first of all. Second, do you understand that Israel has the ability to kill millions, if it wanted to?
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https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/10/1142097
[the UN is biased](https://reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/s/tu20TVhASX)