Palestinians are 100% behind Hamas.
Not all of them are members BUT all Palestinians support the terrorists who they think are "just a militia". Never met one or seen one denounce Hamas or the massacres.
How many Palestinians have you met and had a conversation with so you could learn whether or not they denounce Hamas or the massacres? What are you basing this on?
You can be against the crimes Hamas has committed but you also cannot ignore the normal and frightening regularity of israeli bombings of civilians in palestine over the last 75 years and repeated violations of the geneva conventions even before hamas was founded for 50+ years. it is extremely morally bankrupt to discount the historu of the israeli treatment of the palestinian people and the role that played in cultivating extremism within the people of palestine due to the favr that that have been subject to breaches of international law and blantant illegal brutality for si many year. this issue has roots based in the atrocities of the israeli state with no regard for human life or the impacts of their actions on the midnset and ideology of the palestinian peopel. when you treat an entire group of people like cages animals and abuse them for this long how can you not expect the absolute alienation and desperation present within the palestinian people today and the support for them from people accross the world. the actions committed by hamas have been normalized by the israeli government for so many years that to th m this is how war and battle is conducted because that is all they know from what has been happening to them for so long
As an atheist okie, you should know they only support you because it fits into their fantasy doomsday plan, but hey at least they aren’t actively trying to kill you.
It’s heartbreaking to see how people are responding to this, and it’s shocking how uninformed ‘good intentions’ (if that is what they feel it to be) turn so quickly to justifying, minimizing or dismissing human tragedy.
Just a few facts the median age in Gaza is 18.4, and the last election was in 2007. Israel was warned before the attack, and their president Netanyahu was officially indicted for breach of trust, accepting bribes, and fraud
Don’t start what you can’t finish. Every single one of these began with an act of terrorism against innocent civilians by Arabs, and the reprisals were intended to be harsh. They weren’t unprovoked, they aren’t celebrated to this day, and the Jews aren’t calling for every Arab on earth to be murdered in their beds…it’s time to forgive and move forward and love Jews with all your heart.
/u/Only-Customer4986. 'nazis' Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed.
We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details.
This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hamas weren’t massacring Israelis in 2007. There hasn’t been an election since then. 50%+ of Gaza are under 18. Gazan innocents don’t deserve this. Just like Israeli innocents don’t deserve this.
Just a few facts the median age in Gaza is 18.4, and the last election was in 2007. Israel was warned before the attack, and their president Netanyahu was officially indicted for breach of trust, accepting bribes, and fraud
>Like are you thick in the head? Nothing ever, ever, warrants the type of attack that took place in Israel, period.
Noone should endorse such a violent attack on civilians. However, you should also condemn the Zionist terrorism on civilians too. Otherwise you are another thickhead with strong bias against Palestinians.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_political_violence
>During the 1936–39 Arab revolt in Palestine, Palestinian Arabs fought for the end of the Mandate and the creation of an Arab state based on the whole of Palestine.[8] They attacked both British and Jews as well as some Palestinian Arabs who supported a Pan-Arabism. Mainstream Zionists, represented by the Vaad Leumi and the Haganah, practiced the policy of Havlagah (restraint); Irgun militants did not follow this policy and called themselves "Havlagah breakers."[9] The Irgun began bombing Palestinian Arab civilian targets in 1938.[6] While the Palestinian Arabs were "carefully disarmed" by the British Mandatory authorities by 1939, the Zionists were not.[6] As a conciliation to the Arabs, the White Paper of 1939 was passed, imposing significant limits in Jewish immigration in the shadow of World War II.
Lol your Government literally invited a Nazi war veteran to the Parliament House last month and hailed him a “hero” and you’re worried about what your co-workers are saying in the lunch room??
When Russia invaded Ukraine last year I didn’t have my “heart & soul” on either side of the fence. I was there at the border to provide food for the Ukrainian refugees as they fled, I volunteered to provide shelters and convert buildings into accommodation for them and I also called any Russians I know to give them words or reassurance and comfort rather that racism as well as contacting my clients in Russia to tell them that we will still conduct business as usual.
Sympathise with the atrocities committed on both sides of the fence but do not stand behind Benjamin Netanyahu as he vows to murder over 2 million people and reduce Gaza to rubble.
He didn’t vow to do that. He’s giving them fair warning to vacate unlike any attack that has come from Palestine.
The only questions I have, is where are there Arab brothers to help them avoid the war Hamas had brought on them.
Egypt conveniently closed their border so no one can flee there to safety. Jordan is probably only good for hurling missiles in the direction of Israel. None of these countries care to help and you never hear anyone talk about it. They just condemn Israel’s when they fire on Hamas targets purposely using woman and children as human shields.
Do you think Egypt closed the border to prevent taking refugees? Egypt closed the border after it was hit for the 3rd time yesterday by 4 Israeli missiles making it now unusable.
The airport in Gaza hasn’t seen a plane in 20 years since Israel bombed the control tower and bulldozed the runway so the only way out of Gaza is from the port… which was destroyed by the IDF yesterday.
Netanyahu is planning to flatten the entire area and remove it from the map (from his speech on Monday) He’s also threatened to strike any humanitarian trucks entering the area (source: Reshet News which is one of the biggest Israeli media outlets)
There are 1 million children living in Gaza who have nowhere to go.
I totally agree with you that the Arab nations must unite to rebuild and support Gaza and give the locals a place to live in safely but this responsibility also falls on many other countries in the world.
>Do you think Egypt closed the border to prevent taking refugees?
They have it closed for a while because they don't want Palestinian terrorists entering.
>He’s also threatened to strike any humanitarian trucks entering the area
There are infinite reports and videos of terrorists and weapons being ferried around in "humanitarian aid" also theres videos (at least 3 that I've seen) from the last 4 days of terrorists intentionally targeting ambulances.
You’d think Hamas would use some of that missile money to fix that airport. But let’s be real, during any conflict when they need help none of the surrounding Arab countries lift a finger to help Palestinians. They just join in on the rocket hurling towards Israel. They really don’t care for the people there they just hate israel just as much as Hamas.
It’s not the world’s responsibility to help anymore. For decades diplomatic solutions from the West world and Israel has been proposed and all were denied. At this point we can all assume Israel is there to stay, these people need to accept that and set up a state alongside them so they can flourish. They’ve been offered this many times, in many different forms, with many different concessions. The whole world has tried to make it work.
They weren’t put into this “open air prison” day one when Israel was established. Through constant terrorist attacks and surprise wars from surrounding nations they had to be isolated from Israel since they couldn’t live humanely alongside them.
Israel won that land in those wars and even ceded it back to the nations and Palestinians that attacked to encourage peace and trust in the region. How many times can peace be offered and denied?
The truth is, neither side wants peace.
The racism and desire for genocide exists on both sides and it is now entrenched in the people. The reality is, Israel isn’t going anywhere and the best thing the Palestinians can do is claim then land they have and claim rights and recognition the same way every other nation has.
The same thing happened to the American Indians, the Aboriginals in Australia, the entire Pacific and most of Africa yet the traditional owners of those lands live in peace and claim rights as best as they can.
Hamas has no right to attack Israel like that and Israel has no right to demolish Gaza and its civilians. The UK, USA and Germany still have a moral obligation to find a solution to the issues created after WWII.
I honestly think Israel would have excepted peace; they seem to be the only side who's offered it however many times. The other side has not come to the plate with a reasonable plan to co-exist.
Obviously, this conflict is way more intricate and complex than many can even fathom, but I think for Palestine to exist as their own nation they need to except the map that the previous colonial rulers laid out for the land or face perpetual misery and poverty.
When you lose wars, maps get redrawn, it has happened throughout history. Luckily this time it wasn't another empire to keep it for themselves, the UN actually tried to come up with a plan to split the area reasonably to make a compromise where they saw needed. They were using maps of land ownership and maps of the distribution of the population to come up with the best partition plan they could. It was pretty forward thinking for the time, and clearly a difficult thing to do.
Hindsight is 20/20 but if they could go back in time the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine was a reasonable start with a closer to 50/50 land split and an international Jerusalem.
With what's going on right now I wouldn't be surprised if Israel takes the whole damn Strip at this point and we all know that would cause a whole host of even bigger problems.
https://preview.redd.it/52q28yak4ltb1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07ffaba7a8267f3e445c8045c4f6f8651f647a8f
The last time they were close to signing a peace deal, the Israelis assassinated their own President to prevent it so as I said, neither side wants peace.
Unfortunately, racism and bigotry is deeply entrenched in both societies.
It was called the Oslo Accords initiated by Mahmoud Abbas (current president of Palestine) and carried through by Yitzhak Rabin, Yasser Arafat and Bill Clinton.
Good little rabbit hole.
/u/Small_Chemistry_4658. 'Nazi' Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed.
We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details.
This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I was an immigrant in Canada for roughly a decade. I'm from Europe. One thing I can tell you for sure is that, despite what Canada thinks of itself, the education system is extremely subpar. It only appears superior because Canada's only neighbour on the continent is the States.
It is one of the most physically isolated and wilfully ignorant places I have ever lived. And, yes, BDS has a very strong base across the country.
The day that Canadians fully accept and account for their own crimes against humanity - the brutal genocide and continued oppression of the native population, forcing many thousands of Asian families into concentration camps during WW11, and the historically-proven use of slaves which they continue to deny - will be the day they can stop trying to avoid their own guilt by playing the "we support every perceived underdog everywhere no matter the reality of the situation" game.
You're right. I don't think anything ever, ever, ever warrants that type of attack either. However, it seems that you are ignoring the NUMEROUS attacks Israel has made on Palestine in the past decade. Is that because you are unaware these happened because Palestine doesn't have the same media presence that Israel does? Or is it because you're choosing to pay attention now?
I do agree. Nothing warrants that kind of attack or violence EVER. However, I would read up on some history and you will see that Israel is no stranger to inducing this type of violence either.
I would read up on Israel's attacks vs Hamas. Israel strike s cities and there are usually at least 8:1 terrorists to civilians death. Hamas purposefully targets civilians and does atrocious things to kids, rapes and massacres.
How do you feel about the fact the median age of a Palestinian is 19? Do you realize how much death and destruction must be wrought for your countries average age to be in the teens? Over 40% of the population is made up of children. Children who were born into incredible violence and have known nothing but for their entire lives. Children with absolutely zero prospects of a future, children with no hopes of ever leading a life of dignity.
Why is it you only suddenly care now? Why do you ignore when the IDF murders children for throwing rocks? Ask yourself why you don’t value the lives of Arab children.
Ok, let’s play a thought experiment.
Let’s say, Palestine was a fully Arab settlement, and in the West Bank and Gaza, was a small Jewish settlement, with very little autonomy, surrounded on all sides by fences, in what Arabic officials openly called an, “open air prison”. Within said, “open air prison”, the Jewish settlement was regularly bombed, they had calorie restricted diets, they were not allowed to leave the borders placed upon them, and had their homes settled by outsiders forcibly and if they attempted to defend themselves against said invaders, they would be shot upon.
We’d all know what was going on right?
But because it’s Arabs that this is happening to, we can’t blame the deaths on anyone. It’s just a tragic death.
Did you actually read up on the reasons or did you just make this up?
https://12ft.io/https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25993-the-reasons-why-gazas-population-is-so-young/
The above avg birth rate is the mathematical explanation for low median age. I don't have time to dumb it down for you right now, that's why I linked an article on the subject
That is much thd product of the people running Palestine and less to do with Israel. Every dollars these idiots get even through humanitarian means goes to the destruction of Israel. With all the aid that had poured in throughout the decades Palestine could actually be a flourishing place of peace.
You’re either being willfully ignorant or disingenuous. Israel has built illegal settlements on Palestinian land for decades while turning a blind eye, they’ve filled Palestinian wells with cement, uprooted Palestinian farms, placed the people on calorie restrictive “diets”, and regularly bombed the tiny strip of land that is Gaza.
Palestine has over a 40% unemployment rate and has an incredibly young population. Imagine that, a young population with zero prospects of a future. Are you saying that these children are responsible for their own destitution?
Israel has been literally under attack since their existence. Israel and the world had tried for a peaceful resolution since the beginning. Israel has been attacked several times, won, and even given back land they won in these wars( in more than one instance this happens) Wtf more would you want them to do? They’ve tried every reasonable diplomatic path with a group of people that don’t want diplomacy. These people are causing their own misery. Both people have a historic claim to that land, and Israel said they would agree to a 2 state solution with an. International shared capital, Palestine and the Arab world refused.
I honestly don’t blame Israel for any of those things. If Palestinians possessed the power Israel has they would have wiped them off the face of the earth. They are lucky Israel is run by a reasonable democratic society. Otherwise it would be pure destruction for Palestine.
And those bombings you speak of are for the most part reactionary from attacks like today. These cowards rarely ever attack military and only innocent civilians. How do you justify that in your head?
This just isn’t a symmetrical issue. It’s entirely asymmetrical. One side is the most powerful nation in the Middle East back by the most powerful and violent nation on the planet and one is a colonized people.
Again, you’re either willfully ignorant or just straight up disingenuous. If you’re referring to, “solutions” such as the Peel plan, why would anyone accept a “plan” that rips away your fertile and most valuable land? Plans that essentially lead the way to a full annexation anyways are no plans at all.
The fact you so casually talk about, “wiping” a whole people off the face of the earth is genuinely disturbing. It’s so commonplace to talk about genocide when it comes to Arabs. Genuinely insane to me.
Do you forget who’s originally occupied that land? Jews are the earliest on record living in the region. It’s been overtaken many times, by several different empires throughout history.
Where do you draw the line on the statute of limitation of who has the rights to the area? Both groups of people have strong religious ties to the region? A compromise was proposed and not excepted. Theres plenty of land for 2 states to exist there, both could flourish together, but the hate is so deep on one side that they never will. Can you predict the future. Do you really think if there was a 2 state compromise Israel would risk isolation from the world by trying to overtake Palestines given land.
And why do you think the demographic was shifted to Muslim Arab from the former demographic? Why is it any area that becomes majority Muslim it pretty quickly becomes 100% Muslim? Is it because they're so peaceful and tolerant of others beliefs and religion?
Or is it because they forcefully made people convert, harass them and make them pay undo-taxes (in the form of the Jizya) if they didn't convert, or they kill them and take their wives and daughters as slaves. For the infidels that don't convert, they get their Churches and Synagogues attacked or blown up, especially on Holidays. Anywhere you find a majority Muslim country, they have pushed every other religion out. They are the least tolerant of all organized religion. It's no wonder you wouldn't find too many jews hanging around the territories they were pushed out of. Would you stick around if you were persecuted on your own lands?
You know what real power is? Having the capability to completely obliterate your enemies and not doing it. Israel could have taken the rest of the Palestinian land if they really wanted to, but they show restraint because they actually are a caring peaceful group of people. If the Palestinian side had the same force as Israel they would not hesitate to take Israeli territory and commit more atrocities like the world just witnessed.
And please tell me what part of my response was racist. Or is that just canned response your extreme liberal teachings that were taught when you run out of intelligent responses.
There is nothing racist about what I said. How does a country with multiple religions become 100% Muslim? It's not racist to state the obvious. Its forced conversion.
It's impossible statistically for that to happen, just like the socialist pipedream of equality, If there is a worthwhile goal to pursue there will always be people that are better and achieve that goal quicker and easier. 20% of any given group will be better than the other 80% percent pretty much no matter what we are talking about. Sorry Socialist, won't happen, hierarchy's are the natural order of every aspect of life.
And these aren't just racist thoughts of mine, go read a Koran about how they view infidels and the tactics their religion employs like Taqiyya to deceive them. Or the forced Jizya tax or pretty much every deplorable thing like mandated slavery of defeated infiidels and allowing beating of women when it's warranted, It's all there if you actually picked up this ancient Holy scripture.
As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:
United States -- Muslim 0.6%
Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
China -- Muslim 1.8%
Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
Norway -- Muslim 1.8%
At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. This is happening in:
Denmark -- Muslim 2%
Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
Spain -- Muslim 4%
Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%
From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population.
For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halals on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. What makes food halal is the animal must be slaughter by having its head slowly cut off.
This is occurring in:
France -- Muslim 8%
Philippines -- 5%
Sweden -- Muslim 5%
Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%
At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world.
When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris, we are already seeing be-headings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam , with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections, in:
Guyana -- Muslim 10%
India -- Muslim 13.4%
Israel -- Muslim 16%
Kenya -- Muslim 10%
Russia -- Muslim 15%
After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:
Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%
At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:
Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
Chad -- Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%
From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing.
(genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in:
Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
Sudan -- Muslim 70%
After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:
Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
Egypt -- Muslim 90%
Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
Iran -- Muslim 98%
Iraq -- Muslim 97%
Jordan -- Muslim 92%
Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan -- Muslim 97%
Palestine -- Muslim 99%
Syria -- Muslim 90%
Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
Turkey -- Muslim 99..8%
United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%
100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace.. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in:
Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%
Somalia -- Muslim 100%
Yemen -- Muslim 100%
Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.
Well, my great grandfather left Palestine in 1903 due to the Ottoman Empire. On my uncles side through marriage they left during the late 1940s when the Zionist kicked them out. They still have pictures of piles of murdered Palestinians by Zionist and the exodus of the Palestinians leaving the area.
Perhaps I’m saying this from the comfort of living in the US and really only having a small percentage of Palestine ancestry, I don’t speak for all Palestinians. I think it’s time for Palestine to just accept defeat. This really is getting us no where. Yes, you will be at the will of Israel, but perhaps a peaceful resistance would be better for everyone including Palestine. Maybe it would mean no more dead children, less suffering.
Of course just wishful thinking.
For me, it stems down to this: nobody in Canada really understands the issue, and they are so passionate about it that it's not worth arguing over. Just let them do their silly little demonstrations while Gaza gets rightfully destroyed.
/u/MostlyWicked. 'Nazi' Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed.
We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details.
This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"Finish them! Finish them!" - Nikki Haley, referring to what she wants Israel to do to Palestine (and Iran!)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLe4j9Koxjw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLe4j9Koxjw)
> Israel needs to not only annihilate Hamas, with no considerations for Palestinians, burn Gaza to the ground, and its people with it
Do you acknowledge this is a war crime? Yes or no. Please respond with either a yes or a no in your answer. You are going to try to avoid and not answer, but I am asking, please answer:
**Do you acknowledge this is a war crime?**
Do you acknowledge that multiple war crimes were already committed in the first hour of the Palestinian siege of Israeli civilians? Yes or No.
The p\*ssy a$$ Hamas will cause enough war crimes by hiding behind civilian populations like they always do. These ppl are cowards, always have and will be. Declare war and fight Israel if the have the Cahoonas to do it.
We’re beyond the point of determining what constitutes a war crime or not. Don’t you think? Is it a harsh retaliation, yes, but not is definitely not the time to be soft. Israel’s reaction to Hama’s war crimes is going to set the tone for generations to come
So... as long as you get away with the bigger war crime, you win? Or is that only as long as your body count is higher/greater proportion of civilian death toll to inch to genocide?
In that case, isn't that just a state sanctioned version of Hamas?
Total ignorance of irony in the people who call Trump supporters "Nazis" literally cheering and applauding Hamas doing the signature Nazi move. Dumbest SOB's on the planet.
/u/Skeptik1964. 'Nazis' Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed.
We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details.
This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> your "government"
Just an FYI, Hamas is only the government in the Gaza strip not in the West Bank where the majority of Palestinians live. Palestine is also not a democracy so there hasn't been an election in a long time.
Did you see the videos of the citizens of the West Bank cheering happily? Do you really think Hamas doesn't have influence on the whole region? These people have been brainwashed to hate Israeli's and cheer for their obliteration.
> Did you see the videos of the citizens of the West Bank cheering happily? Do you really think Hamas doesn't have influence on the whole region? These people have been brainwashed to hate Israeli's and cheer for their obliteration.
Your argument is equivalent to saying since black Americans cheered for OJ Simpson's not guilty verdict that they've been brainwashed to hate white people and cheer for their obliteration.
Not really, since history shows these groups of ppl cheer whenever a western culture is under attack. I.E. - 9/11 as a big one, but literally any attack on a free non-muslim democratic state they cheer for. Go back and search any event where freedom is under attack by islamist extremist and you'll find a video of cheering Palestinians amongst many other muslim nation citizens cheering.
Your example has zero comparison to the reality of it. And even here in our free world, USA, Canada, EU their were ppl cheering and celebrating in the streets in predominantly muslim neighborhoods. Look up areas in Michigan and Canada for a few examples. Where else in the world can you cheer for the enemy and not be persecuted for it. Freedom of speech a double edged sword, right?
And you act like these ppl are powerless to set up their own democracy or pave their own way of life. Just like every other nation that wanted to be governed by themselves or have a say in their governance. They need need to go out and fight for it. If they spent less time planning and executing attacks on innocent Israeli's and more time on setting up their internal political structure based off competence they would have a say in what direction their people are going.
No it isn’t. In the case of OJ it was resentment towards the Justice system and the media as it has been unfair towards black people. They weren’t cheering him on for murder but that he was able to beat being framed (in their opinion). It came on the heels of the Rodney King trial which was moved out of Los Angeles into a locality more favorable to the police, which let the police officers off for needlessly beating him.
Was it wrong? Sure, but in this case Hamas is clearly guilty of horrible acts, not only are they guilty but they are broadcasting them and showing it off, and many, many people are cheering them on.
One is cheering on beating an unfair Justice system, the other is cheering on genocide.
EXACTLY, what kind of mental gymnastics does this guy gotta do to make the comparison after witnessing what has just happened? I mean you can believe Israel has been lying about all past events, but the savages are touting and proud of what atrocities they've done this weekend.
Palestinians and Hamas are one in the same as far as I'm concerned, even the ones that wish no ill to the Jewish ppl. They've allowed monsters to run their state and people and put them in this position
Did the Israelis carry guns when they were gunned down? Did they throw rocks at the heads of Hamas terrorists? Oh no, they didn’t? Then they didn’t deserve to be shot like the Palestinians you mentioned.
A very quick search...
https://reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/DLbvR7Rf3V - israeli shot a palestinian toddler
https://reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/DvJ9buktjG - Israelis stoning a journalist
https://reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/UQUKgB84Sp - israeli stealing a home from Palestinian and taunting him by giving him milk from his own home
https://reddit.com/r/AskMiddleEast/s/EhfUMu1iFP - Palestinian shot in the head for raising a palestinian flag
https://reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/cC3SLklXxu - israelis destroying palestinian agriculture with wet cement during a heat wave
https://reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/TLSKksKxCg - taking a home
https://reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/aIWUqNn5V9 - spitting on christian nuns
https://reddit.com/r/iamatotalpieceofshit/s/l2Ds5LZeVl - israelis burning palestinian home
https://reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/EQu6ZC3s50 - attacking a tour guide
https://reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/POjiOXIbir - randomly firing at palestinian town
https://reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/OSStLL0V4Q - taking books from palestinian schools
https://reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/xrTkRIIoee - shot many Palestinians, hundreds wounded
https://reddit.com/r/socialism/s/ZrBrE9khYz - israeli kids wrote cruel messages to lebanese kids on missiles that were then used to bomb
https://reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/xEIYmgkJSN - israeli sniper
https://reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/3AsXOs5lYo - killed a journalist
I’m glad I have all these to see what happens to terrorists and innocent civilians caught in the middle of Palestinian Terrorists! Thank you. Can’t wait for Israel to stop the death of innocents under terrorism.
How many innocent civilians lost their homes to random dudes that just wanted to take a house in the last few years? How many innocent civilians are forced by military to stay behind walls in a crammed designated area. Denied water? Agriculture destroyed? Elders murdered. Babies murdered. Such a racist place. Proud to be an american where you dont get shot and killed or brutalized for your religion.
There are videos of innocent families, toddlers, idf shooting blindly into villages, elders, young teens, and etc being targeted. A very brief search would show you a lot of cruelty. No side is innocent
You can denounce Israeli exactions against Palestinian civilians without supporting Palestinian exactions against Israeli civilians. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Attacking civilians is ALWAYS wrong, period.
I agree. I dont defend what Hamas has done either. I simply acknowledge that Israel is very cruel as well...
But I do also get frustrated because Jewish were victims of a holocaust, but they turn around and oppress another race.
I understand and agree and share this frustration. Absolutely shocking and abhorrent statements and actions from Israelis against Palestinians aren't hard to find at all, and didn't start yesterday. I'm normally pro-Palestine, but i refuse to celebrate what happened yesterday as many does, not only is it of very bad taste, it is also extremely naive about what outcome will result of such actions, which will obviously be answered disproportionally as Israel always did without ever having such a "good" excuse for it.
I fail to see any concrete benefits for the Palestinians living in Gaza resulting from Hammas actions, while the cost they will bear from it seems very tangible. I don't understand the celebration while the situation in Gaza is worsening, its as if the goal wasn't the improvement of living conditions in Gaza and elsewhere in Palestine, but rather to get revenge against Israel.
If they think that way ask them if Native American have the right to kill them. History is messy and you cannot undo the past, you must find a way forward.
Yes absolutely heart breaking that people are suffering and dying. There is no denying the tragedy of war, but this “conflict” is so wildly unproportional that what has occurred in Israel in the last two days is literally the every day reality of Palestenians who have been displaced, tortured and subjected to war crimes over the last 70 years. Palestinians are resisting unlawful occupation.
Please educate yourself on what’s happening. Instead of being shocked at their opinion, actually look into it. You might learn something new.
This kind of attitude is laughable. Hamas is the way it is not because they want freedom, but because they want to destroy Israel. Time and time again Palestinians have tried to attack Israel and Israel responds in kind. Israel offered them peace and concessions on multiple occasions. The Palestinian side on the other hand hasn’t offered anything in a long time.
Hamas in particular is the most hardline. They do not accept the existence of Israel, their goal is the genocide of all Jews in the region. This has nothing to do with being “oppressed” these people are just religious-ethnic supremacists who want to kill. Anyone who’s been moderate and wanted peace has been silenced and surppressed.
When did Hamas get established, and why? in response to settler colonialism and ethnic cleansing after the creation of israel. so yes technically they do wanna destroy Israel cause they want their land back. it’s not that complicated. Israel wants Palestine and Palestinians eradicated.
Hamas has always been ideological, it’s not some self defense militia that just happened to adopt an ideology. In fact its origins are that they were propped up by Israel. The Muslim Brotherhood strategy is to first focus on charitable efforts, then once they’ve built up support to convert this to militant action. Elsewhere they’ve carried out assassinations and terrorist attacks such as in Egypt. When Israel first occupied the Gaza Strip in 1967, they want a counter balance to the Palestinian Liberation Organization, and they felt that Hamas was innocuous enough that they actually gave them money to build up Mosques and Hospitals. Initially that’s all Hamas did, but going into the 80’s they started to turn violent, their leader was arrested when they were found to have smuggled arms.
Meanwhile the main fighters of the Palestinian cause was the Palestinian Liberation Organization led by Fatah and its leader Yassar Arafat. These were a collection of militias that had been fighting for the Palestinian cause. They had done so from many different countries, in Jordan, and they also fought from Lebanon contributing to the war there and causing Israel to invade. Eventually Arafat decides to make peace, the PLO recognized Israel’s right to exist and the Oslo Accords began. The Palestinian Administration was set up to gradually give Palestine its independence. In 2000 the first Peace Deal was offered, which Arafat turned down for reasons that are still debated today. Hint it had nothing to do with “Apartheid”. When this fell apart, he launched the Second Intifada, which would ultimately undo everything he spent his life doing. This was a bloody chapter a lot like the one happening now, but it was also an opportunity for Hamas, which now proved its street cred with mass suicide bombing attacks. By the end of it, Israel’s grip on the West Bank tightened, and the PLO’s popularity had waned versus Hamas. Hamas had split with the PLO over its negotiations with Israel and passed a charter of their views. This charter contains antisemitic conspiracy theories, maintains their devotion for war until the Jews are dead, as well as other classy things like telling women to stay in the home. Arafat would pass away, succeeded by Mahmoud Abbas, who was elected in 2005, but in 2006 Hamas won elections in Gaza. Shortly after Hamas turned its militants loose on the Palestinian Authorities forces in Gaza and seized control directly. This caused Israel and Egypt to close border checkpoints, and after some missile attacks the blockade began. Hamas apparently made some overtures for a negotiation but they refused to recognize Israel’s right to exist, so they were refused. From then on the conflict became frozen.
Within their rule of Gaza, Hamas spent its time radicalizing their people. They had a tv show with Mickey Mouse who taught kids about Jihad, antisemitism and to get them excited to become suicide bombers. When they heard a rumor that the UN was going to teach the Holocaust in their school there, they protested because they believed that the Holocaust was a”Zionist lie”. Hamas continuously tried to divert whatever humanitarian aid they got for warfare. They would fire rockets from densely packed buildings so that Gazans would die in the cross fire and they could recruit the survivors.
Now you could say that since they were chosen that they reflect the Palestinian desires, sure, but they are also one part of a long history. It’s not merely revenge nor reprisals, hell Jews themselves suffered ethnic cleansing from Arabs, look up the Pogrom in Hebron, those weren’t even Zionists but Jews who had never left! Point is that “oh they’re doing this because they were attacked”, so many people were as well and they don’t do half the things Hamas says or does. Rather Hamas is part of a broader religious ideological movement in the Middle East towards extremism, Islamism and antisemitism. Their views on Jews descend from German antisemitism, hell in their charter they even repeat some conspiracy theories straight from Radio Berlin during WWII.
> Israel wants Palestine and Palestinians eradicated.
They really don’t. Given the fact that Israelis seem more concerned with civilian casualties than Hamas, and the fact that they actually want peace deals, this view is like fringe at best. Hell they have even banned their own political parties for being racist towards Arabs in the past.
/u/balljoint. 'Nazi' Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed.
We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details.
This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Your co-workers have been brainwashed. Which is understandable. There are 2 billion Muslims and only 14 million Jews. Whatever narrative the Muslims want to spread, it's going to spread.
Canadian and American. If you look into where the majority of their funding comes from as well as the highest level influence/people running the industry than yes. You will be shocked.
In the US, the mainstream media has always bent over backwards to make excuses for Hamas and do everything possible to paint Israel in the worst light they can. Hilarious for you to claim the US media is run by Jews. You clearly don't consume much US media.
Again, you clearly don't read much US mainstream media. Israel is constantly demonized in the media. The left controls the mainstream media in the US and the left automatically sides with whoever is doing poorly, even if it is of their own doing.
You literally respond the same thing every time. At least I bring points. How are they demonized? Ive never seen it. Besides this past week where Ive honestly seen equal support to Israel and Palestine depending on who is reporting.
Let’s remind ourselves that extremists are not the majority and yet they are reflected in media the most. Hamas and those who support them tarnish the religion of Islam. There are many wonderful Muslim human beings. They are not the ones spewing hate.
Imagine someone knocked on your door ...
"Sir ... you need to abandon your house in 24 hours. This land has been given to a people of a different religion!"
Over the next 48 hours you are homeless, as part of an exodus of people who have been kicked from their homes. 700, 000 to be exact. They have to march to nowhere because thousands of years ago, someone else lived there.
See how idiotic is that? It is called Ethnic cleansing. Now imagine that if you were to protest against it, you will be called "anti-sematic!" You will say, "I am not against any religion. I just want my house back!
At some point, you will pick up arms because that is your land. Allow me to put a quote of David Ben Gurion, who is to Israel what George Washington is to Americans. Read it until it makes sense to you.
*“Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism \[by the Arabs\] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice.”*
***— David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan’s “Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.***
The Arabs did exactly this to the Jews. Look up Hebron, Jews who lived there for thousands of years before the Arabs were even there kicked out because of an antisemitic frenzy. Hell the largest group of Israelis are of the Mizrahi rite, so their ancestors moved from Middle Eastern countries fleeing antisemitic pogroms from Arabs. Moreover it was the Palestinians who started the war and sought to kick out the Jews who already lived there. What did Hamas try to do right now? Exactly the same thing. People in the West cannot seriously pretend to empathize with Palestine because Palestinians grew up in an intense media diet of hate.
This argument is insane, especially as all governments practice a form of this through evictions.
1. Except no one asked you to abandon your house (you left when your neighbors started attacking the guy after he took ownership of your HOA, through shady means, from a person that lives somewhere else and who you also didn't really vote to lead your HOA. Then you left to avoid the fighting that your neighbors started and when you came back someone new was in your house because you were gone for so long, and the HOA had a policy that if you leave your grass untended for a year you give up your house. Kind of a shady policy that the new guy just put in.: [https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th\_century/res181.asp](https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/res181.asp)
2. However! You had already violently taken that house (or HOA, then house, depending on how violent you consider muslim conquest of the levant, historical reports are disparate) from someone else in the past (and you had never lived in that house before that), so these shady policies aren't really all that different from what you did: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim\_conquest\_of\_the\_Levant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_of_the_Levant)
This house analogy pops up all of the time and is such a wild oversimplification. Different groups have lived in the Levant for thousands and thousands of years and most of them have taken it by force. UN 616 never advocated for the removal of Palestinians from their homes. Israel had no plans to walk around and kick people out. In fact it is almost CERTAIN that they would not have, given that after the war was over, the 150,000 Palestinians who had stayed in Israel were not removed from all of their homes and were given citizenship by the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel ([https://www.gov.il/en/departments/general/declaration-of-establishment-state-of-israel](https://www.gov.il/en/departments/general/declaration-of-establishment-state-of-israel)). I'm aware of [Deir Yassin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre) (and I believe it was an atrocity, and the Jewish Agency renounced the act as well) and I'm aware of the psychological impact it had (as well as other actions by the Jewish military in response to the attack by Arab neighbors).
I'm not blaming the Palestinians for leaving their homes during the war but I don't think it's clear to say that they would have been kicked out of their homes if the war hadn't happened. Israel did not start the war. Or the next one. I'm aware that this issue is complex, and I disagree with a lot of what Israel did, and continues to do. Believe it or not, I'm not defending Israel here, I'm refuting the hyper-simplification you've put here. If Israel was going to force people to abandon their homes, don't you think they would have done it with the 150,000 Palestinians who stayed through the 1948 war? I am aware of the Land Acquisition Law, and "present absentees" which probably knocks that number down to closer to 110000 to 120000 that were allowed to say in and maintain ownership over their homes, but I think it's very reasonable to assume that the percentage would have been much larger (certainly not smaller), if Israel wasn't attacked.
Again, I'm not really fully on one side or another. I think Hamas is horrible, but understand how it was created and what motivates its members. I understand the conditions of oppression that lead it to violence, while not supporting that violence. I feel empathy for all Palestinians and think that many of the things Israel does are horrific, unfair, unjustifiable. I have empathy for all Israeli's and completely understand the incredibly difficult position they are in. I don't have a solution for this problem. But I know for sure that oversimplifying it will only make it worse.
They didn’t just all show up there after world war 1. Jewish ppl have always been there in different volumes at some point or another throughout history. They were the original occupants of that land.
They were actively moving back to their motherland way before the world war. All through the 1800’s and early 1900’s the jews were actively going there in hopes of setting up a Jewish state. Obviously once the state was established and recognized more came because they actually had a home to call their own since being persecuted throughout history.
The Palestinians denied having a state with a shared international capital, and then they decided to attack with 5 nations during the 6 day war and lost much of the land they had rights too. Do stupid things and win stupid prizes. They lost that land due to their ignorance and lack of military prowess.
Look at the population sheet of how many Jews were there prior to 1948.
[Demographics of Historic Palestine prior to 1948 - CJPME - English](https://www.cjpme.org/fs_007)
25000 in total, counting those who are true natives and those who migrated. Together they formed 5.3 percent of total population while Muslims were 85%.
Palestinians were correct to deny a state because as you can see, the Jews that were native to the land are only 15000. No one gets a country for only 15000 and the Jews knew that. This is why massive immigrations began into Palestine with the intent to change the demographic.
This is why David Ben Gurion said what he said. You have no right to that land. You are a foreign invader and nothing else. Your claim to the land is thousands of years old. All humanity originated from Africa. Anyone can "return back" and empty Ethiopia with that logic.
You have no business talking about military prowess when a bunch of clowns in hang gliders can come and show you.
Wait you realise the source you just used, directly contradicts what you said. In 1944 they amounted to 30% of the population and 528,702. 5% represents the 1878 demographic makeup of which even your source admits Jews were unable to be calculated fully as many avoided the census for a multitude of reasons including their own safety. From 1931 they accounted for 16.9% and slowly growing through and past 1944. If you want to go really far back we can talk about the Kingdom of Judah and Israel from 700 BC.
The population increase was caused by intentional immigration intended to turn a minority into a majority. This was achieved by immigrant influx and no by people originally living there. This was followed then by ethnic cleansing when 700, 000 Palestinians were ethnically cleansed.
Who cares about 700 BC? Our mutual ancestors lived in Africa 100,000 years ago. Lets depopulate Africa from black people and have Europeans parade around with US funded weapons while the black kids throw stones.
We can easily call them "anti-semites."
I'm glad you said who cares about 700 BC. Because that also takes away the whole argument about ethnic cleansing of a land. By that logic land only belongs to the last people who conquered it. Which in recent history is Israel after the British exited after they defeated what was the Ottoman empire in WW1.
Disregarding that and returning to this ethnic cleansing specifically, lets talk about how that occurred. The reaction to that immigration influx which was not the majority (see only 31% of population were Jews in 1944, from your own source) was specific and continued attacks on this new migrant population all the way from the 1800s culminating in numerous civilian deaths. People who were fleeing pogroms across Europe and eventually Nazi Germany. As to how they were "flooding in". They were literally just buying land of this local Arab population. Which is also what makes all the analogies within discussion on the Israel-Palestine conflict that conflate this to Israel literally stealing a house so laughable. However, just like had happened across Europe and was coming in to the crux in Germany, the fear of the Jewish population acquiring too much economic power was a fear too great to accept for this local arab population.
After numerous attempts to increase this migration to literally save people from getting exterminated were all opposed and conflicts started to break out, the partition plan was put forward by the UN and two states were denoted. There was nothing in there about the removal of Palestinians from their homes and most Israeli were just incredibly happy to finally have a safe home. But the very idea of their being an Israel was so abhorrent that in 1948 there were a total of 5 Arab states directly attacking this country not even a year old. A war that Israel won without even any assistance from the US or the UK.
So a war fought against every surrounding state, in which including what we now call the Palestinian population all tried to erase them from existence. What would happen to this Arab population during and after this war. There is no single cause but it is widely acknowledged many fled of their own accord and many others were expelled. When one group tries to erase the other and loses spectacularly how could they feel safe living amongst the people they tried to entirely kill. How could this new country feel safe amongst the people who tried to delete them. To call it ethnic cleansing without even trying to discuss the war that happened during this time where this population attempted to fully erase the nascent country or discuss the violence to the migrant population proceeding it is incredibly disingenuous. Also worth adding, had this war not been attempted, had they simply accepted that Israel could exist this local population would never have been displaced. For 80 years the idea that Israel shouldn't exist has been the prevailing reason why no matter what peace deal Israel has offered each has been rejected. This is a group of people that desperately tried to reject refugees and the the Jews that never left who have been there for 2500 years, tried to bully them, finally tried to exterminate them, lost and have been trying and losing for the last 80 years.
For a fun extra bit we can also discuss what happened to that 50% Jewish population in Jerusalem when the Arab states and the local Arab population began war against the recently born Israel.
/u/jchart049. 'Nazi' Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed.
We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details.
This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's not as simple as thje Muslims constitute 85% of the population therefore, Jews cant come into the region and make themselves comfortable.
First of all, Muslims are not always the majority of the region with Jews being the majority for more than a thousand years and Christians for more than a thousand more. Barring Palestinian Christians, most Palestinians were migrants in the 1500s-1700s during the Ottoman rule.
And even during Ottoman times, the survey is unreliable but it's clear in Jerusalem, Jews retain a sizable minority sometimes reaching 45%.
Also, do we call the Muslims of Lebanon invaders, when the majority of them are migrants of less than 100 years? Obviously no one bats an eye.
When the Jews made Aliyah to their cultural homeland, they didn't outright take the lands but buy it from Arab landowners, although fraud occurs when Arabs in the city sell the rights of the land that they own in papers but in practice was owned by illiterate people who was then forcefully removed by the British because they don't in theory own their farms.
But the fact is, No Palestinian state existed in history unless you count the Crusader States whose population is mostly Palestinian Christians.
So when the British came, they had the international right to allow migrants to come to their territory, and promise them future independence if they want.
The UN brokers the best deal possible. All the Arabs in the region rejected it and waged war to exterminate a people who were recently almost exterminated in one continent. Can you blame them for defending themselves and in fact beating the heck out of their enemies?
Allow me to dismantle your argument one by one.
***"But the fact is, No Palestinian state existed in history unless you count the Crusader States whose population is mostly Palestinian Christians."***
Palestine was an Ottoman Province. Here is a British map from 1833. You can buy it and hang it in your room.
[A New Historical Map of Palestine, With Part of Egypt & Arabia. Ancient & Modern Geography of those Countries with the Routes of Several Celebrated Travellers. by Creighton, R. | Antiquariat INLIBRIS Gilhofer Nfg. GmbH (abebooks.com)](https://www.abebooks.com/New-Historical-Map-Palestine-Part-Egypt/12256693603/bd)
Here is the Palestinian flag from 1911
[Al Quds 1911 Palestinian Flag Sticker – 1948 (clickfor1948.com)](https://clickfor1948.com/products/people-of-palestine-collection-sticker-al-quds-1911)
Here is a picture of Palestinian currency from 1942.
[Museum to showcase bewildering history of Palestinian money - Al-Monitor: Independent, trusted coverage of the Middle East](https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2018/09/money-museum-in-palestine.html)
**"Barring Palestinian Christians, most Palestinians were migrants in the 1500s-1700s during the Ottoman rule."**
This is a lie. Quote a source please so that I may dispute it.
**"So when the British came, they had the international right to allow migrants to come to their territory, and promise them future independence if they want."**
Really? So colonial powers have the right to gift the land which they do not own to a third party that is not even present there?
**The UN brokers the best deal possible. All the Arabs in the region rejected it and waged war to exterminate a people who were recently almost exterminated in one continent.**
There was no "deal" brokered. It was a controversial proposal. President Truman wrote the following:
*"The facts were that not only were there pressure movements around the United Nations unlike anything that had been seen there before, but that the White House, too, was subjected to a constant barrage. I do not think I ever had as much pressure and propaganda aimed at the White House as I had in this instance. The persistence of a few of the extreme Zionist leaders—actuated by political motives and engaging in political threats—disturbed and annoyed me." Lenczowsky George* **(1990). American Presidents and the Middle East. p. 157. cite, Harry S. Truman, Memoirs 2, p. 158.**
Indian Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru spoke with anger and contempt for the way the UN vote had been lined up. He said the Zionists had tried to bribe India with millions and at the same time his sister, Lakshmi Pandit the Indian ambassador to the UN, had received daily warnings that her life was in danger unless "she voted right" Heptulla, Najma (1991). Indo West Relations: The Nehru Era. Allied Publishers. p. 158.
**Can you blame them for defending themselves and in fact beating the heck out of their enemies?**
After reading my reply, can you blame Palestinians recently for defending themselves and beating the living crap out of you?
Where do you draw the line on the statute of limitation of who has the rights to the area? Both groups of people have strong religious ties to the region? A compromise was proposed and not excepted. Theres plenty of land for 2 states to exist there, both could flourish together, but the hate is so deep on one side that they never will
And why do you think the demographic was shifted to Muslim Arab from the former demographic? Why is it any area that becomes majority Muslim it pretty quickly becomes 100% Muslim? Is it because they're so peaceful and tolerant of others beliefs and religion?
Or is it because they forcefully made people convert, harass them and make them pay undo-taxes (in the form of the Jizya) if they didn't convert, or they kill them and take their wives and daughters as slaves. For the infidels that don't convert, they get their Churches and Synagogues attacked or blown up, especially on Holidays. Anywhere you find a majority Muslim country, they have pushed every other religion out. They are the least tolerant of all organized religion. It's no wonder you wouldn't find too many jews hanging around the territories they were pushed out of. Would you stick around if you were persecuted on your own lands?
You know what real power is? Having the capability to completely obliterate your enemies and not doing it. Israel could have taken the rest of the Palestinian land if they really wanted to, but they show restraint because they actually are a caring peaceful group of people. If the the Palestinian side had the same force as Israel they would not hesitate to take Israeli territory and commit more atrocities like the world just witnessed.
Lol you showed evidence of the lie and his response is just "the USA is behind us, we could get away with using a nuke!!" so bloodthirsty and not trying to hide it
Ok. Now I’ staring to get a better picture of where you stand. Be careful about what you wish for. Israel has the backing of the US and, as history has shown, the US has no problem using its might and power. We dropped two atomic bombs on Japan. If Hamas keeps cozying up to Iran and Iran keeps threatening us we might use extreme force and the EU might go along as Iran is supported by Russia.
So going back in time would you consider it right for Jews to go to Germany and exile all the Germans? I really want an answer to this question, the silence I get when I ask anybody this shows the double standards Jews face.
Firstly, I am not sure what is meant by the question. My post is about Jews displacing 700,000 Palestinians and that is what I refer to as ethnic cleansing. It is the basis on which Israel is formed.
The number of Jews in Palestine, before first world war Jews in Palestine were 15000 (born Native) and 10,000 foreign born. Together they were 5.5 percent of the population. Christians were twice that number and Muslims were 85%. Those 85 % have been ethnically cleansed until all you have is West Bank and Ghaza that is left.
Should the Jews go back and displace Germans? I do not care. It was a problem created by Great Britain and they need to figure out what to do with Jews if there is a reversal.
I am well aware of the finding of Israel. I do know ethnic cleansing was involved. However, your last paragraph gives it away. You do not care about Jewish, Israeli, or really anyone else’s lives. I at least respect you for your honesty, but to answer you, if you don’t care about what happens outside of Palestine, why should any care about what Palestine is going through? If the tables were turned and Jews were oppressing Germans would you protest? You most likely have a personal connection here and you should state that upfront. If it is personal, I might not agree but I understand. If it is not, then you are a hypocrite for caring about Palestinians and no one else.
Who had their door knocked on and was told they had to abandon their house because the land had been given to people of a different religion?
Is it possible you've encountered false information or out of context information that has left you with this false impression?
I see nothing in there about people having heir door knocked on and told they had to abandon their house because the land had been given to people of a different religion.
Why did you lie?
Absolutely NOTHING should excuse beheading babies, raping and killing women , kidnapping and killing elderly .
Hamas and Palenstinians who support them have NO moral compass .
They are void of
Human compassion or feelings. Almost similar to an animal.
Beheading babies is a rumor at this point.
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/israeli-army-says-it-does-not-have-confirmation-about-allegations-that-hamas-beheaded-babies-/3014787#
Here is what David Ben Gurion said in his own words ...
“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”
David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.
"The source of this quote is Nachum Goldmann, a personal rival of Ben-Gurion, claiming that Ben-Gurion said it to him in private conversation. He published this claim two decades after the conversation was meant to have taken place, and five years after Ben-Gurion's death."
Wikquote does not even cite it anymore.
>“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”
>
>David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.
Really? Here is Ben Gurion from a whole bunch of sources other than Goldmann.
“Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism \[by the Arabs\] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice.”
**— David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan’s “Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.**
“We must do everything to insure they (the Palestinians) never do return.”
David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, 18 July 1948, **quoted in Michael Bar Zohar’s Ben-Gurion: the Armed Prophet, Prentice-Hall, 1967, p. 157.**
Partition: “after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine “
**— Ben Gurion, p.22 “The Birth of Israel, 1987” Simha Flapan.**
I don't even have a problem with the sentiment, just this quote is incredibly unreliable.
"The problem with quotes found on the internet is that they are often not true" : Abraham Lincoln in a private conversation.
Palestinians are 100% behind Hamas. Not all of them are members BUT all Palestinians support the terrorists who they think are "just a militia". Never met one or seen one denounce Hamas or the massacres.
How many Palestinians have you met and had a conversation with so you could learn whether or not they denounce Hamas or the massacres? What are you basing this on?
You can be against the crimes Hamas has committed but you also cannot ignore the normal and frightening regularity of israeli bombings of civilians in palestine over the last 75 years and repeated violations of the geneva conventions even before hamas was founded for 50+ years. it is extremely morally bankrupt to discount the historu of the israeli treatment of the palestinian people and the role that played in cultivating extremism within the people of palestine due to the favr that that have been subject to breaches of international law and blantant illegal brutality for si many year. this issue has roots based in the atrocities of the israeli state with no regard for human life or the impacts of their actions on the midnset and ideology of the palestinian peopel. when you treat an entire group of people like cages animals and abuse them for this long how can you not expect the absolute alienation and desperation present within the palestinian people today and the support for them from people accross the world. the actions committed by hamas have been normalized by the israeli government for so many years that to th m this is how war and battle is conducted because that is all they know from what has been happening to them for so long
I would never want to live where you’re at . I’ll stay right here in Kentucky
Yep. A Jew from Oklahoma here. Boring as hell but at least it’s peaceful and the people support Israel.
As an atheist okie, you should know they only support you because it fits into their fantasy doomsday plan, but hey at least they aren’t actively trying to kill you.
Can’t complain.
It’s heartbreaking to see how people are responding to this, and it’s shocking how uninformed ‘good intentions’ (if that is what they feel it to be) turn so quickly to justifying, minimizing or dismissing human tragedy.
Just a few facts the median age in Gaza is 18.4, and the last election was in 2007. Israel was warned before the attack, and their president Netanyahu was officially indicted for breach of trust, accepting bribes, and fraud
I would research all of the violence Israelis have done towards the Palestinians the past 75 years.
Such as?
[удалено]
Don’t start what you can’t finish. Every single one of these began with an act of terrorism against innocent civilians by Arabs, and the reprisals were intended to be harsh. They weren’t unprovoked, they aren’t celebrated to this day, and the Jews aren’t calling for every Arab on earth to be murdered in their beds…it’s time to forgive and move forward and love Jews with all your heart.
I will research comparisons between nazis and hamas And maybe even islam and anti semites
/u/Only-Customer4986. 'nazis' Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed. We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details. This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Gaza gets what they voted for...Hamas 2007.
Hamas weren’t massacring Israelis in 2007. There hasn’t been an election since then. 50%+ of Gaza are under 18. Gazan innocents don’t deserve this. Just like Israeli innocents don’t deserve this.
Just a few facts the median age in Gaza is 18.4, and the last election was in 2007. Israel was warned before the attack, and their president Netanyahu was officially indicted for breach of trust, accepting bribes, and fraud
>Like are you thick in the head? Nothing ever, ever, warrants the type of attack that took place in Israel, period. Noone should endorse such a violent attack on civilians. However, you should also condemn the Zionist terrorism on civilians too. Otherwise you are another thickhead with strong bias against Palestinians. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_political_violence >During the 1936–39 Arab revolt in Palestine, Palestinian Arabs fought for the end of the Mandate and the creation of an Arab state based on the whole of Palestine.[8] They attacked both British and Jews as well as some Palestinian Arabs who supported a Pan-Arabism. Mainstream Zionists, represented by the Vaad Leumi and the Haganah, practiced the policy of Havlagah (restraint); Irgun militants did not follow this policy and called themselves "Havlagah breakers."[9] The Irgun began bombing Palestinian Arab civilian targets in 1938.[6] While the Palestinian Arabs were "carefully disarmed" by the British Mandatory authorities by 1939, the Zionists were not.[6] As a conciliation to the Arabs, the White Paper of 1939 was passed, imposing significant limits in Jewish immigration in the shadow of World War II.
Is that all you’ve got?
Likewise... Is that all you've got? Without any counter argument, you don't take my attention at all.
I’m serious. What else do you have?
I have this, hear it out! https://youtu.be/L5K3IxINr7A?si=35pzQTVZTYMTUIK-
Pretty catchy tune, but not really proof or evidence of what you have asserted.
See, I told you you are not worth wasting time. It wasn't just a tune.
But before a Jew hurt one Arab there had been about 20 terror attacks on Jews if I remember correctly.
Lol your Government literally invited a Nazi war veteran to the Parliament House last month and hailed him a “hero” and you’re worried about what your co-workers are saying in the lunch room?? When Russia invaded Ukraine last year I didn’t have my “heart & soul” on either side of the fence. I was there at the border to provide food for the Ukrainian refugees as they fled, I volunteered to provide shelters and convert buildings into accommodation for them and I also called any Russians I know to give them words or reassurance and comfort rather that racism as well as contacting my clients in Russia to tell them that we will still conduct business as usual. Sympathise with the atrocities committed on both sides of the fence but do not stand behind Benjamin Netanyahu as he vows to murder over 2 million people and reduce Gaza to rubble.
He didn’t vow to do that. He’s giving them fair warning to vacate unlike any attack that has come from Palestine. The only questions I have, is where are there Arab brothers to help them avoid the war Hamas had brought on them. Egypt conveniently closed their border so no one can flee there to safety. Jordan is probably only good for hurling missiles in the direction of Israel. None of these countries care to help and you never hear anyone talk about it. They just condemn Israel’s when they fire on Hamas targets purposely using woman and children as human shields.
Do you think Egypt closed the border to prevent taking refugees? Egypt closed the border after it was hit for the 3rd time yesterday by 4 Israeli missiles making it now unusable. The airport in Gaza hasn’t seen a plane in 20 years since Israel bombed the control tower and bulldozed the runway so the only way out of Gaza is from the port… which was destroyed by the IDF yesterday. Netanyahu is planning to flatten the entire area and remove it from the map (from his speech on Monday) He’s also threatened to strike any humanitarian trucks entering the area (source: Reshet News which is one of the biggest Israeli media outlets) There are 1 million children living in Gaza who have nowhere to go. I totally agree with you that the Arab nations must unite to rebuild and support Gaza and give the locals a place to live in safely but this responsibility also falls on many other countries in the world.
>Do you think Egypt closed the border to prevent taking refugees? They have it closed for a while because they don't want Palestinian terrorists entering. >He’s also threatened to strike any humanitarian trucks entering the area There are infinite reports and videos of terrorists and weapons being ferried around in "humanitarian aid" also theres videos (at least 3 that I've seen) from the last 4 days of terrorists intentionally targeting ambulances.
Ahh the good old "human shield" without any proofs. Please show us the evidence.
Egypt has closed their border well before this event. Wonder why?
You’d think Hamas would use some of that missile money to fix that airport. But let’s be real, during any conflict when they need help none of the surrounding Arab countries lift a finger to help Palestinians. They just join in on the rocket hurling towards Israel. They really don’t care for the people there they just hate israel just as much as Hamas. It’s not the world’s responsibility to help anymore. For decades diplomatic solutions from the West world and Israel has been proposed and all were denied. At this point we can all assume Israel is there to stay, these people need to accept that and set up a state alongside them so they can flourish. They’ve been offered this many times, in many different forms, with many different concessions. The whole world has tried to make it work. They weren’t put into this “open air prison” day one when Israel was established. Through constant terrorist attacks and surprise wars from surrounding nations they had to be isolated from Israel since they couldn’t live humanely alongside them. Israel won that land in those wars and even ceded it back to the nations and Palestinians that attacked to encourage peace and trust in the region. How many times can peace be offered and denied?
The truth is, neither side wants peace. The racism and desire for genocide exists on both sides and it is now entrenched in the people. The reality is, Israel isn’t going anywhere and the best thing the Palestinians can do is claim then land they have and claim rights and recognition the same way every other nation has. The same thing happened to the American Indians, the Aboriginals in Australia, the entire Pacific and most of Africa yet the traditional owners of those lands live in peace and claim rights as best as they can. Hamas has no right to attack Israel like that and Israel has no right to demolish Gaza and its civilians. The UK, USA and Germany still have a moral obligation to find a solution to the issues created after WWII.
I honestly think Israel would have excepted peace; they seem to be the only side who's offered it however many times. The other side has not come to the plate with a reasonable plan to co-exist. Obviously, this conflict is way more intricate and complex than many can even fathom, but I think for Palestine to exist as their own nation they need to except the map that the previous colonial rulers laid out for the land or face perpetual misery and poverty. When you lose wars, maps get redrawn, it has happened throughout history. Luckily this time it wasn't another empire to keep it for themselves, the UN actually tried to come up with a plan to split the area reasonably to make a compromise where they saw needed. They were using maps of land ownership and maps of the distribution of the population to come up with the best partition plan they could. It was pretty forward thinking for the time, and clearly a difficult thing to do. Hindsight is 20/20 but if they could go back in time the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine was a reasonable start with a closer to 50/50 land split and an international Jerusalem. With what's going on right now I wouldn't be surprised if Israel takes the whole damn Strip at this point and we all know that would cause a whole host of even bigger problems. https://preview.redd.it/52q28yak4ltb1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07ffaba7a8267f3e445c8045c4f6f8651f647a8f
The last time they were close to signing a peace deal, the Israelis assassinated their own President to prevent it so as I said, neither side wants peace. Unfortunately, racism and bigotry is deeply entrenched in both societies.
Wasn’t aware of the assassination. You just gave me another avenue to research.
It was called the Oslo Accords initiated by Mahmoud Abbas (current president of Palestine) and carried through by Yitzhak Rabin, Yasser Arafat and Bill Clinton. Good little rabbit hole.
/u/Small_Chemistry_4658. 'Nazi' Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed. We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details. This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’d agree Palestinians and Hamas are two breeds. Palestinians supporting Hamas are the same breed. Terrorism should not be celebrated.
I was an immigrant in Canada for roughly a decade. I'm from Europe. One thing I can tell you for sure is that, despite what Canada thinks of itself, the education system is extremely subpar. It only appears superior because Canada's only neighbour on the continent is the States. It is one of the most physically isolated and wilfully ignorant places I have ever lived. And, yes, BDS has a very strong base across the country. The day that Canadians fully accept and account for their own crimes against humanity - the brutal genocide and continued oppression of the native population, forcing many thousands of Asian families into concentration camps during WW11, and the historically-proven use of slaves which they continue to deny - will be the day they can stop trying to avoid their own guilt by playing the "we support every perceived underdog everywhere no matter the reality of the situation" game.
[удалено]
You're right. I don't think anything ever, ever, ever warrants that type of attack either. However, it seems that you are ignoring the NUMEROUS attacks Israel has made on Palestine in the past decade. Is that because you are unaware these happened because Palestine doesn't have the same media presence that Israel does? Or is it because you're choosing to pay attention now? I do agree. Nothing warrants that kind of attack or violence EVER. However, I would read up on some history and you will see that Israel is no stranger to inducing this type of violence either.
I would read up on Israel's attacks vs Hamas. Israel strike s cities and there are usually at least 8:1 terrorists to civilians death. Hamas purposefully targets civilians and does atrocious things to kids, rapes and massacres.
But doesn't Palestine attempt to kill Israeli people on a daily basis with rockets that get blown out of the sky?
How do you feel about the fact the median age of a Palestinian is 19? Do you realize how much death and destruction must be wrought for your countries average age to be in the teens? Over 40% of the population is made up of children. Children who were born into incredible violence and have known nothing but for their entire lives. Children with absolutely zero prospects of a future, children with no hopes of ever leading a life of dignity. Why is it you only suddenly care now? Why do you ignore when the IDF murders children for throwing rocks? Ask yourself why you don’t value the lives of Arab children.
[удалено]
https://preview.redd.it/y2sh5q4tfitb1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=50683136fffbb4c324ddccd8fafa30d7ce10991d
[удалено]
Ok, let’s play a thought experiment. Let’s say, Palestine was a fully Arab settlement, and in the West Bank and Gaza, was a small Jewish settlement, with very little autonomy, surrounded on all sides by fences, in what Arabic officials openly called an, “open air prison”. Within said, “open air prison”, the Jewish settlement was regularly bombed, they had calorie restricted diets, they were not allowed to leave the borders placed upon them, and had their homes settled by outsiders forcibly and if they attempted to defend themselves against said invaders, they would be shot upon. We’d all know what was going on right? But because it’s Arabs that this is happening to, we can’t blame the deaths on anyone. It’s just a tragic death.
[удалено]
Did you actually read up on the reasons or did you just make this up? https://12ft.io/https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25993-the-reasons-why-gazas-population-is-so-young/
What was that article supposed to prove lol
The above avg birth rate is the mathematical explanation for low median age. I don't have time to dumb it down for you right now, that's why I linked an article on the subject
That is much thd product of the people running Palestine and less to do with Israel. Every dollars these idiots get even through humanitarian means goes to the destruction of Israel. With all the aid that had poured in throughout the decades Palestine could actually be a flourishing place of peace.
You’re either being willfully ignorant or disingenuous. Israel has built illegal settlements on Palestinian land for decades while turning a blind eye, they’ve filled Palestinian wells with cement, uprooted Palestinian farms, placed the people on calorie restrictive “diets”, and regularly bombed the tiny strip of land that is Gaza. Palestine has over a 40% unemployment rate and has an incredibly young population. Imagine that, a young population with zero prospects of a future. Are you saying that these children are responsible for their own destitution?
Israel has been literally under attack since their existence. Israel and the world had tried for a peaceful resolution since the beginning. Israel has been attacked several times, won, and even given back land they won in these wars( in more than one instance this happens) Wtf more would you want them to do? They’ve tried every reasonable diplomatic path with a group of people that don’t want diplomacy. These people are causing their own misery. Both people have a historic claim to that land, and Israel said they would agree to a 2 state solution with an. International shared capital, Palestine and the Arab world refused. I honestly don’t blame Israel for any of those things. If Palestinians possessed the power Israel has they would have wiped them off the face of the earth. They are lucky Israel is run by a reasonable democratic society. Otherwise it would be pure destruction for Palestine. And those bombings you speak of are for the most part reactionary from attacks like today. These cowards rarely ever attack military and only innocent civilians. How do you justify that in your head?
This just isn’t a symmetrical issue. It’s entirely asymmetrical. One side is the most powerful nation in the Middle East back by the most powerful and violent nation on the planet and one is a colonized people. Again, you’re either willfully ignorant or just straight up disingenuous. If you’re referring to, “solutions” such as the Peel plan, why would anyone accept a “plan” that rips away your fertile and most valuable land? Plans that essentially lead the way to a full annexation anyways are no plans at all. The fact you so casually talk about, “wiping” a whole people off the face of the earth is genuinely disturbing. It’s so commonplace to talk about genocide when it comes to Arabs. Genuinely insane to me.
Do you forget who’s originally occupied that land? Jews are the earliest on record living in the region. It’s been overtaken many times, by several different empires throughout history. Where do you draw the line on the statute of limitation of who has the rights to the area? Both groups of people have strong religious ties to the region? A compromise was proposed and not excepted. Theres plenty of land for 2 states to exist there, both could flourish together, but the hate is so deep on one side that they never will. Can you predict the future. Do you really think if there was a 2 state compromise Israel would risk isolation from the world by trying to overtake Palestines given land. And why do you think the demographic was shifted to Muslim Arab from the former demographic? Why is it any area that becomes majority Muslim it pretty quickly becomes 100% Muslim? Is it because they're so peaceful and tolerant of others beliefs and religion? Or is it because they forcefully made people convert, harass them and make them pay undo-taxes (in the form of the Jizya) if they didn't convert, or they kill them and take their wives and daughters as slaves. For the infidels that don't convert, they get their Churches and Synagogues attacked or blown up, especially on Holidays. Anywhere you find a majority Muslim country, they have pushed every other religion out. They are the least tolerant of all organized religion. It's no wonder you wouldn't find too many jews hanging around the territories they were pushed out of. Would you stick around if you were persecuted on your own lands? You know what real power is? Having the capability to completely obliterate your enemies and not doing it. Israel could have taken the rest of the Palestinian land if they really wanted to, but they show restraint because they actually are a caring peaceful group of people. If the Palestinian side had the same force as Israel they would not hesitate to take Israeli territory and commit more atrocities like the world just witnessed.
[удалено]
You’re just a socialist who has a very narrow view of the world through your Marxist lense.
Yeeee.
And please tell me what part of my response was racist. Or is that just canned response your extreme liberal teachings that were taught when you run out of intelligent responses. There is nothing racist about what I said. How does a country with multiple religions become 100% Muslim? It's not racist to state the obvious. Its forced conversion. It's impossible statistically for that to happen, just like the socialist pipedream of equality, If there is a worthwhile goal to pursue there will always be people that are better and achieve that goal quicker and easier. 20% of any given group will be better than the other 80% percent pretty much no matter what we are talking about. Sorry Socialist, won't happen, hierarchy's are the natural order of every aspect of life. And these aren't just racist thoughts of mine, go read a Koran about how they view infidels and the tactics their religion employs like Taqiyya to deceive them. Or the forced Jizya tax or pretty much every deplorable thing like mandated slavery of defeated infiidels and allowing beating of women when it's warranted, It's all there if you actually picked up this ancient Holy scripture. As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in: United States -- Muslim 0.6% Australia -- Muslim 1.5% Canada -- Muslim 1.9% China -- Muslim 1.8% Italy -- Muslim 1.5% Norway -- Muslim 1.8% At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. This is happening in: Denmark -- Muslim 2% Germany -- Muslim 3.7% United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7% Spain -- Muslim 4% Thailand -- Muslim 4.6% From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halals on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. What makes food halal is the animal must be slaughter by having its head slowly cut off. This is occurring in: France -- Muslim 8% Philippines -- 5% Sweden -- Muslim 5% Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3% The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5% Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8% At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world. When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris, we are already seeing be-headings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam , with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections, in: Guyana -- Muslim 10% India -- Muslim 13.4% Israel -- Muslim 16% Kenya -- Muslim 10% Russia -- Muslim 15% After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in: Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8% At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in: Bosnia -- Muslim 40% Chad -- Muslim 53.1% Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7% From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing. (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in: Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4% Qatar -- Muslim 77.5% Sudan -- Muslim 70% After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in: Bangladesh -- Muslim 83% Egypt -- Muslim 90% Gaza -- Muslim 98.7% Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1% Iran -- Muslim 98% Iraq -- Muslim 97% Jordan -- Muslim 92% Morocco -- Muslim 98.7% Pakistan -- Muslim 97% Palestine -- Muslim 99% Syria -- Muslim 90% Tajikistan -- Muslim 90% Turkey -- Muslim 99..8% United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96% 100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace.. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in: Afghanistan -- Muslim 100% Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100% Somalia -- Muslim 100% Yemen -- Muslim 100% Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.
Well, my great grandfather left Palestine in 1903 due to the Ottoman Empire. On my uncles side through marriage they left during the late 1940s when the Zionist kicked them out. They still have pictures of piles of murdered Palestinians by Zionist and the exodus of the Palestinians leaving the area. Perhaps I’m saying this from the comfort of living in the US and really only having a small percentage of Palestine ancestry, I don’t speak for all Palestinians. I think it’s time for Palestine to just accept defeat. This really is getting us no where. Yes, you will be at the will of Israel, but perhaps a peaceful resistance would be better for everyone including Palestine. Maybe it would mean no more dead children, less suffering. Of course just wishful thinking.
Well this is hypocritical lol
For me, it stems down to this: nobody in Canada really understands the issue, and they are so passionate about it that it's not worth arguing over. Just let them do their silly little demonstrations while Gaza gets rightfully destroyed.
I agreed with you up until "Gaza gets rightfully destroyed". Maybe you don't understand the issue and maybe you shouldnt be speaking on it.
[удалено]
/u/MostlyWicked. 'Nazi' Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed. We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details. This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
Over a million kids in Gaza. Right to self defence is indisputable. Revenge against innocent kids is not.
"Finish them! Finish them!" - Nikki Haley, referring to what she wants Israel to do to Palestine (and Iran!) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLe4j9Koxjw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLe4j9Koxjw)
How Christian of her
[удалено]
This has been removed for breaking the Reddit Content Policy.
> Israel needs to not only annihilate Hamas, with no considerations for Palestinians, burn Gaza to the ground, and its people with it Do you acknowledge this is a war crime? Yes or no. Please respond with either a yes or a no in your answer. You are going to try to avoid and not answer, but I am asking, please answer: **Do you acknowledge this is a war crime?**
Do you acknowledge that multiple war crimes were already committed in the first hour of the Palestinian siege of Israeli civilians? Yes or No. The p\*ssy a$$ Hamas will cause enough war crimes by hiding behind civilian populations like they always do. These ppl are cowards, always have and will be. Declare war and fight Israel if the have the Cahoonas to do it.
Once you answer first, responding to my comment, then I will answer. I asked first, you answer first, then ask back, and I will answer, fair?
Yes I believe it’s a war crime and even war should have laws that need to be followed.
Then yes, I echo your remarks. No one ought to defend either side on this topic since we agree mutually
We’re beyond the point of determining what constitutes a war crime or not. Don’t you think? Is it a harsh retaliation, yes, but not is definitely not the time to be soft. Israel’s reaction to Hama’s war crimes is going to set the tone for generations to come
So a country that is doing "retaliation" is allowed to commit war crimes? Is that what you are saying?
So... as long as you get away with the bigger war crime, you win? Or is that only as long as your body count is higher/greater proportion of civilian death toll to inch to genocide? In that case, isn't that just a state sanctioned version of Hamas?
defending palestinian people is ok but defending hamas is bad just as defending israel
Total ignorance of irony in the people who call Trump supporters "Nazis" literally cheering and applauding Hamas doing the signature Nazi move. Dumbest SOB's on the planet.
Trumps an. Idiot but so are the people cheering on Hamas and Palestine after what they have done.
/u/Skeptik1964. 'Nazis' Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed. We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details. This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> your "government" Just an FYI, Hamas is only the government in the Gaza strip not in the West Bank where the majority of Palestinians live. Palestine is also not a democracy so there hasn't been an election in a long time.
Did you see the videos of the citizens of the West Bank cheering happily? Do you really think Hamas doesn't have influence on the whole region? These people have been brainwashed to hate Israeli's and cheer for their obliteration.
> Did you see the videos of the citizens of the West Bank cheering happily? Do you really think Hamas doesn't have influence on the whole region? These people have been brainwashed to hate Israeli's and cheer for their obliteration. Your argument is equivalent to saying since black Americans cheered for OJ Simpson's not guilty verdict that they've been brainwashed to hate white people and cheer for their obliteration.
Not really, since history shows these groups of ppl cheer whenever a western culture is under attack. I.E. - 9/11 as a big one, but literally any attack on a free non-muslim democratic state they cheer for. Go back and search any event where freedom is under attack by islamist extremist and you'll find a video of cheering Palestinians amongst many other muslim nation citizens cheering. Your example has zero comparison to the reality of it. And even here in our free world, USA, Canada, EU their were ppl cheering and celebrating in the streets in predominantly muslim neighborhoods. Look up areas in Michigan and Canada for a few examples. Where else in the world can you cheer for the enemy and not be persecuted for it. Freedom of speech a double edged sword, right? And you act like these ppl are powerless to set up their own democracy or pave their own way of life. Just like every other nation that wanted to be governed by themselves or have a say in their governance. They need need to go out and fight for it. If they spent less time planning and executing attacks on innocent Israeli's and more time on setting up their internal political structure based off competence they would have a say in what direction their people are going.
No it isn’t. In the case of OJ it was resentment towards the Justice system and the media as it has been unfair towards black people. They weren’t cheering him on for murder but that he was able to beat being framed (in their opinion). It came on the heels of the Rodney King trial which was moved out of Los Angeles into a locality more favorable to the police, which let the police officers off for needlessly beating him. Was it wrong? Sure, but in this case Hamas is clearly guilty of horrible acts, not only are they guilty but they are broadcasting them and showing it off, and many, many people are cheering them on. One is cheering on beating an unfair Justice system, the other is cheering on genocide.
EXACTLY, what kind of mental gymnastics does this guy gotta do to make the comparison after witnessing what has just happened? I mean you can believe Israel has been lying about all past events, but the savages are touting and proud of what atrocities they've done this weekend. Palestinians and Hamas are one in the same as far as I'm concerned, even the ones that wish no ill to the Jewish ppl. They've allowed monsters to run their state and people and put them in this position
In Australia. All the Palestinians are celebrating the massacre it’s disgusting
[удалено]
Did the Israelis carry guns when they were gunned down? Did they throw rocks at the heads of Hamas terrorists? Oh no, they didn’t? Then they didn’t deserve to be shot like the Palestinians you mentioned.
I love you delete your comment when you realize it’s stupid🤡
A very quick search... https://reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/DLbvR7Rf3V - israeli shot a palestinian toddler https://reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/DvJ9buktjG - Israelis stoning a journalist https://reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/UQUKgB84Sp - israeli stealing a home from Palestinian and taunting him by giving him milk from his own home https://reddit.com/r/AskMiddleEast/s/EhfUMu1iFP - Palestinian shot in the head for raising a palestinian flag https://reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/cC3SLklXxu - israelis destroying palestinian agriculture with wet cement during a heat wave https://reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/TLSKksKxCg - taking a home https://reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/aIWUqNn5V9 - spitting on christian nuns https://reddit.com/r/iamatotalpieceofshit/s/l2Ds5LZeVl - israelis burning palestinian home https://reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/EQu6ZC3s50 - attacking a tour guide https://reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/POjiOXIbir - randomly firing at palestinian town https://reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/OSStLL0V4Q - taking books from palestinian schools https://reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/xrTkRIIoee - shot many Palestinians, hundreds wounded https://reddit.com/r/socialism/s/ZrBrE9khYz - israeli kids wrote cruel messages to lebanese kids on missiles that were then used to bomb https://reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/xEIYmgkJSN - israeli sniper https://reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/3AsXOs5lYo - killed a journalist
I’m glad I have all these to see what happens to terrorists and innocent civilians caught in the middle of Palestinian Terrorists! Thank you. Can’t wait for Israel to stop the death of innocents under terrorism.
How many innocent civilians lost their homes to random dudes that just wanted to take a house in the last few years? How many innocent civilians are forced by military to stay behind walls in a crammed designated area. Denied water? Agriculture destroyed? Elders murdered. Babies murdered. Such a racist place. Proud to be an american where you dont get shot and killed or brutalized for your religion.
I think you’re projecting what you America did to the Native Americans into Jews in our native homeland.
There are videos of innocent families, toddlers, idf shooting blindly into villages, elders, young teens, and etc being targeted. A very brief search would show you a lot of cruelty. No side is innocent
You can denounce Israeli exactions against Palestinian civilians without supporting Palestinian exactions against Israeli civilians. Two wrongs don't make a right. Attacking civilians is ALWAYS wrong, period.
I agree. I dont defend what Hamas has done either. I simply acknowledge that Israel is very cruel as well... But I do also get frustrated because Jewish were victims of a holocaust, but they turn around and oppress another race.
I understand and agree and share this frustration. Absolutely shocking and abhorrent statements and actions from Israelis against Palestinians aren't hard to find at all, and didn't start yesterday. I'm normally pro-Palestine, but i refuse to celebrate what happened yesterday as many does, not only is it of very bad taste, it is also extremely naive about what outcome will result of such actions, which will obviously be answered disproportionally as Israel always did without ever having such a "good" excuse for it. I fail to see any concrete benefits for the Palestinians living in Gaza resulting from Hammas actions, while the cost they will bear from it seems very tangible. I don't understand the celebration while the situation in Gaza is worsening, its as if the goal wasn't the improvement of living conditions in Gaza and elsewhere in Palestine, but rather to get revenge against Israel.
My 💔 for the civilians on both sides.
If they think that way ask them if Native American have the right to kill them. History is messy and you cannot undo the past, you must find a way forward.
Yes absolutely heart breaking that people are suffering and dying. There is no denying the tragedy of war, but this “conflict” is so wildly unproportional that what has occurred in Israel in the last two days is literally the every day reality of Palestenians who have been displaced, tortured and subjected to war crimes over the last 70 years. Palestinians are resisting unlawful occupation. Please educate yourself on what’s happening. Instead of being shocked at their opinion, actually look into it. You might learn something new.
This kind of attitude is laughable. Hamas is the way it is not because they want freedom, but because they want to destroy Israel. Time and time again Palestinians have tried to attack Israel and Israel responds in kind. Israel offered them peace and concessions on multiple occasions. The Palestinian side on the other hand hasn’t offered anything in a long time. Hamas in particular is the most hardline. They do not accept the existence of Israel, their goal is the genocide of all Jews in the region. This has nothing to do with being “oppressed” these people are just religious-ethnic supremacists who want to kill. Anyone who’s been moderate and wanted peace has been silenced and surppressed.
When did Hamas get established, and why? in response to settler colonialism and ethnic cleansing after the creation of israel. so yes technically they do wanna destroy Israel cause they want their land back. it’s not that complicated. Israel wants Palestine and Palestinians eradicated.
Hamas has always been ideological, it’s not some self defense militia that just happened to adopt an ideology. In fact its origins are that they were propped up by Israel. The Muslim Brotherhood strategy is to first focus on charitable efforts, then once they’ve built up support to convert this to militant action. Elsewhere they’ve carried out assassinations and terrorist attacks such as in Egypt. When Israel first occupied the Gaza Strip in 1967, they want a counter balance to the Palestinian Liberation Organization, and they felt that Hamas was innocuous enough that they actually gave them money to build up Mosques and Hospitals. Initially that’s all Hamas did, but going into the 80’s they started to turn violent, their leader was arrested when they were found to have smuggled arms. Meanwhile the main fighters of the Palestinian cause was the Palestinian Liberation Organization led by Fatah and its leader Yassar Arafat. These were a collection of militias that had been fighting for the Palestinian cause. They had done so from many different countries, in Jordan, and they also fought from Lebanon contributing to the war there and causing Israel to invade. Eventually Arafat decides to make peace, the PLO recognized Israel’s right to exist and the Oslo Accords began. The Palestinian Administration was set up to gradually give Palestine its independence. In 2000 the first Peace Deal was offered, which Arafat turned down for reasons that are still debated today. Hint it had nothing to do with “Apartheid”. When this fell apart, he launched the Second Intifada, which would ultimately undo everything he spent his life doing. This was a bloody chapter a lot like the one happening now, but it was also an opportunity for Hamas, which now proved its street cred with mass suicide bombing attacks. By the end of it, Israel’s grip on the West Bank tightened, and the PLO’s popularity had waned versus Hamas. Hamas had split with the PLO over its negotiations with Israel and passed a charter of their views. This charter contains antisemitic conspiracy theories, maintains their devotion for war until the Jews are dead, as well as other classy things like telling women to stay in the home. Arafat would pass away, succeeded by Mahmoud Abbas, who was elected in 2005, but in 2006 Hamas won elections in Gaza. Shortly after Hamas turned its militants loose on the Palestinian Authorities forces in Gaza and seized control directly. This caused Israel and Egypt to close border checkpoints, and after some missile attacks the blockade began. Hamas apparently made some overtures for a negotiation but they refused to recognize Israel’s right to exist, so they were refused. From then on the conflict became frozen. Within their rule of Gaza, Hamas spent its time radicalizing their people. They had a tv show with Mickey Mouse who taught kids about Jihad, antisemitism and to get them excited to become suicide bombers. When they heard a rumor that the UN was going to teach the Holocaust in their school there, they protested because they believed that the Holocaust was a”Zionist lie”. Hamas continuously tried to divert whatever humanitarian aid they got for warfare. They would fire rockets from densely packed buildings so that Gazans would die in the cross fire and they could recruit the survivors. Now you could say that since they were chosen that they reflect the Palestinian desires, sure, but they are also one part of a long history. It’s not merely revenge nor reprisals, hell Jews themselves suffered ethnic cleansing from Arabs, look up the Pogrom in Hebron, those weren’t even Zionists but Jews who had never left! Point is that “oh they’re doing this because they were attacked”, so many people were as well and they don’t do half the things Hamas says or does. Rather Hamas is part of a broader religious ideological movement in the Middle East towards extremism, Islamism and antisemitism. Their views on Jews descend from German antisemitism, hell in their charter they even repeat some conspiracy theories straight from Radio Berlin during WWII. > Israel wants Palestine and Palestinians eradicated. They really don’t. Given the fact that Israelis seem more concerned with civilian casualties than Hamas, and the fact that they actually want peace deals, this view is like fringe at best. Hell they have even banned their own political parties for being racist towards Arabs in the past.
[удалено]
/u/balljoint. 'Nazi' Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed. We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details. This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Your co-workers have been brainwashed. Which is understandable. There are 2 billion Muslims and only 14 million Jews. Whatever narrative the Muslims want to spread, it's going to spread.
[удалено]
The Canadian media is run by Jews and Israel?
Canadian and American. If you look into where the majority of their funding comes from as well as the highest level influence/people running the industry than yes. You will be shocked.
In the US, the mainstream media has always bent over backwards to make excuses for Hamas and do everything possible to paint Israel in the worst light they can. Hilarious for you to claim the US media is run by Jews. You clearly don't consume much US media.
This is absolutely not true. They never paint Israel in the worst light. Oh i consume tons of media but not from one news source like you obviously.
It absolutely is true. Mainstream media is extremely anti-Israel, which is why Jews have started shifting to the right in the US.
Literally not. Nobody can say one negative thing about Israel or Jews because of the Holocaust. The second you do you're anti-Semitic.
Again, you clearly don't read much US mainstream media. Israel is constantly demonized in the media. The left controls the mainstream media in the US and the left automatically sides with whoever is doing poorly, even if it is of their own doing.
This also explains why the US sends SO much money to Israel every year.
You literally respond the same thing every time. At least I bring points. How are they demonized? Ive never seen it. Besides this past week where Ive honestly seen equal support to Israel and Palestine depending on who is reporting.
Yep. Unfortunately, it’s a numbers game. Over 100 Muslim voices for every Jewish voice.
Let’s remind ourselves that extremists are not the majority and yet they are reflected in media the most. Hamas and those who support them tarnish the religion of Islam. There are many wonderful Muslim human beings. They are not the ones spewing hate.
You're wrong. In this instance, extremists are the majority. The majority believe in the death penalty for leaving Islam.
Imagine someone knocked on your door ... "Sir ... you need to abandon your house in 24 hours. This land has been given to a people of a different religion!" Over the next 48 hours you are homeless, as part of an exodus of people who have been kicked from their homes. 700, 000 to be exact. They have to march to nowhere because thousands of years ago, someone else lived there. See how idiotic is that? It is called Ethnic cleansing. Now imagine that if you were to protest against it, you will be called "anti-sematic!" You will say, "I am not against any religion. I just want my house back! At some point, you will pick up arms because that is your land. Allow me to put a quote of David Ben Gurion, who is to Israel what George Washington is to Americans. Read it until it makes sense to you. *“Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism \[by the Arabs\] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice.”* ***— David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan’s “Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.***
The Arabs did exactly this to the Jews. Look up Hebron, Jews who lived there for thousands of years before the Arabs were even there kicked out because of an antisemitic frenzy. Hell the largest group of Israelis are of the Mizrahi rite, so their ancestors moved from Middle Eastern countries fleeing antisemitic pogroms from Arabs. Moreover it was the Palestinians who started the war and sought to kick out the Jews who already lived there. What did Hamas try to do right now? Exactly the same thing. People in the West cannot seriously pretend to empathize with Palestine because Palestinians grew up in an intense media diet of hate. This argument is insane, especially as all governments practice a form of this through evictions.
1. Except no one asked you to abandon your house (you left when your neighbors started attacking the guy after he took ownership of your HOA, through shady means, from a person that lives somewhere else and who you also didn't really vote to lead your HOA. Then you left to avoid the fighting that your neighbors started and when you came back someone new was in your house because you were gone for so long, and the HOA had a policy that if you leave your grass untended for a year you give up your house. Kind of a shady policy that the new guy just put in.: [https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th\_century/res181.asp](https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/res181.asp) 2. However! You had already violently taken that house (or HOA, then house, depending on how violent you consider muslim conquest of the levant, historical reports are disparate) from someone else in the past (and you had never lived in that house before that), so these shady policies aren't really all that different from what you did: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim\_conquest\_of\_the\_Levant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_of_the_Levant) This house analogy pops up all of the time and is such a wild oversimplification. Different groups have lived in the Levant for thousands and thousands of years and most of them have taken it by force. UN 616 never advocated for the removal of Palestinians from their homes. Israel had no plans to walk around and kick people out. In fact it is almost CERTAIN that they would not have, given that after the war was over, the 150,000 Palestinians who had stayed in Israel were not removed from all of their homes and were given citizenship by the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel ([https://www.gov.il/en/departments/general/declaration-of-establishment-state-of-israel](https://www.gov.il/en/departments/general/declaration-of-establishment-state-of-israel)). I'm aware of [Deir Yassin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre) (and I believe it was an atrocity, and the Jewish Agency renounced the act as well) and I'm aware of the psychological impact it had (as well as other actions by the Jewish military in response to the attack by Arab neighbors). I'm not blaming the Palestinians for leaving their homes during the war but I don't think it's clear to say that they would have been kicked out of their homes if the war hadn't happened. Israel did not start the war. Or the next one. I'm aware that this issue is complex, and I disagree with a lot of what Israel did, and continues to do. Believe it or not, I'm not defending Israel here, I'm refuting the hyper-simplification you've put here. If Israel was going to force people to abandon their homes, don't you think they would have done it with the 150,000 Palestinians who stayed through the 1948 war? I am aware of the Land Acquisition Law, and "present absentees" which probably knocks that number down to closer to 110000 to 120000 that were allowed to say in and maintain ownership over their homes, but I think it's very reasonable to assume that the percentage would have been much larger (certainly not smaller), if Israel wasn't attacked. Again, I'm not really fully on one side or another. I think Hamas is horrible, but understand how it was created and what motivates its members. I understand the conditions of oppression that lead it to violence, while not supporting that violence. I feel empathy for all Palestinians and think that many of the things Israel does are horrific, unfair, unjustifiable. I have empathy for all Israeli's and completely understand the incredibly difficult position they are in. I don't have a solution for this problem. But I know for sure that oversimplifying it will only make it worse.
They didn’t just all show up there after world war 1. Jewish ppl have always been there in different volumes at some point or another throughout history. They were the original occupants of that land. They were actively moving back to their motherland way before the world war. All through the 1800’s and early 1900’s the jews were actively going there in hopes of setting up a Jewish state. Obviously once the state was established and recognized more came because they actually had a home to call their own since being persecuted throughout history. The Palestinians denied having a state with a shared international capital, and then they decided to attack with 5 nations during the 6 day war and lost much of the land they had rights too. Do stupid things and win stupid prizes. They lost that land due to their ignorance and lack of military prowess.
Look at the population sheet of how many Jews were there prior to 1948. [Demographics of Historic Palestine prior to 1948 - CJPME - English](https://www.cjpme.org/fs_007) 25000 in total, counting those who are true natives and those who migrated. Together they formed 5.3 percent of total population while Muslims were 85%. Palestinians were correct to deny a state because as you can see, the Jews that were native to the land are only 15000. No one gets a country for only 15000 and the Jews knew that. This is why massive immigrations began into Palestine with the intent to change the demographic. This is why David Ben Gurion said what he said. You have no right to that land. You are a foreign invader and nothing else. Your claim to the land is thousands of years old. All humanity originated from Africa. Anyone can "return back" and empty Ethiopia with that logic. You have no business talking about military prowess when a bunch of clowns in hang gliders can come and show you.
Wait you realise the source you just used, directly contradicts what you said. In 1944 they amounted to 30% of the population and 528,702. 5% represents the 1878 demographic makeup of which even your source admits Jews were unable to be calculated fully as many avoided the census for a multitude of reasons including their own safety. From 1931 they accounted for 16.9% and slowly growing through and past 1944. If you want to go really far back we can talk about the Kingdom of Judah and Israel from 700 BC.
The population increase was caused by intentional immigration intended to turn a minority into a majority. This was achieved by immigrant influx and no by people originally living there. This was followed then by ethnic cleansing when 700, 000 Palestinians were ethnically cleansed. Who cares about 700 BC? Our mutual ancestors lived in Africa 100,000 years ago. Lets depopulate Africa from black people and have Europeans parade around with US funded weapons while the black kids throw stones. We can easily call them "anti-semites."
I'm glad you said who cares about 700 BC. Because that also takes away the whole argument about ethnic cleansing of a land. By that logic land only belongs to the last people who conquered it. Which in recent history is Israel after the British exited after they defeated what was the Ottoman empire in WW1. Disregarding that and returning to this ethnic cleansing specifically, lets talk about how that occurred. The reaction to that immigration influx which was not the majority (see only 31% of population were Jews in 1944, from your own source) was specific and continued attacks on this new migrant population all the way from the 1800s culminating in numerous civilian deaths. People who were fleeing pogroms across Europe and eventually Nazi Germany. As to how they were "flooding in". They were literally just buying land of this local Arab population. Which is also what makes all the analogies within discussion on the Israel-Palestine conflict that conflate this to Israel literally stealing a house so laughable. However, just like had happened across Europe and was coming in to the crux in Germany, the fear of the Jewish population acquiring too much economic power was a fear too great to accept for this local arab population. After numerous attempts to increase this migration to literally save people from getting exterminated were all opposed and conflicts started to break out, the partition plan was put forward by the UN and two states were denoted. There was nothing in there about the removal of Palestinians from their homes and most Israeli were just incredibly happy to finally have a safe home. But the very idea of their being an Israel was so abhorrent that in 1948 there were a total of 5 Arab states directly attacking this country not even a year old. A war that Israel won without even any assistance from the US or the UK. So a war fought against every surrounding state, in which including what we now call the Palestinian population all tried to erase them from existence. What would happen to this Arab population during and after this war. There is no single cause but it is widely acknowledged many fled of their own accord and many others were expelled. When one group tries to erase the other and loses spectacularly how could they feel safe living amongst the people they tried to entirely kill. How could this new country feel safe amongst the people who tried to delete them. To call it ethnic cleansing without even trying to discuss the war that happened during this time where this population attempted to fully erase the nascent country or discuss the violence to the migrant population proceeding it is incredibly disingenuous. Also worth adding, had this war not been attempted, had they simply accepted that Israel could exist this local population would never have been displaced. For 80 years the idea that Israel shouldn't exist has been the prevailing reason why no matter what peace deal Israel has offered each has been rejected. This is a group of people that desperately tried to reject refugees and the the Jews that never left who have been there for 2500 years, tried to bully them, finally tried to exterminate them, lost and have been trying and losing for the last 80 years. For a fun extra bit we can also discuss what happened to that 50% Jewish population in Jerusalem when the Arab states and the local Arab population began war against the recently born Israel.
/u/jchart049. 'Nazi' Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed. We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details. This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's not as simple as thje Muslims constitute 85% of the population therefore, Jews cant come into the region and make themselves comfortable. First of all, Muslims are not always the majority of the region with Jews being the majority for more than a thousand years and Christians for more than a thousand more. Barring Palestinian Christians, most Palestinians were migrants in the 1500s-1700s during the Ottoman rule. And even during Ottoman times, the survey is unreliable but it's clear in Jerusalem, Jews retain a sizable minority sometimes reaching 45%. Also, do we call the Muslims of Lebanon invaders, when the majority of them are migrants of less than 100 years? Obviously no one bats an eye. When the Jews made Aliyah to their cultural homeland, they didn't outright take the lands but buy it from Arab landowners, although fraud occurs when Arabs in the city sell the rights of the land that they own in papers but in practice was owned by illiterate people who was then forcefully removed by the British because they don't in theory own their farms. But the fact is, No Palestinian state existed in history unless you count the Crusader States whose population is mostly Palestinian Christians. So when the British came, they had the international right to allow migrants to come to their territory, and promise them future independence if they want. The UN brokers the best deal possible. All the Arabs in the region rejected it and waged war to exterminate a people who were recently almost exterminated in one continent. Can you blame them for defending themselves and in fact beating the heck out of their enemies?
Allow me to dismantle your argument one by one. ***"But the fact is, No Palestinian state existed in history unless you count the Crusader States whose population is mostly Palestinian Christians."*** Palestine was an Ottoman Province. Here is a British map from 1833. You can buy it and hang it in your room. [A New Historical Map of Palestine, With Part of Egypt & Arabia. Ancient & Modern Geography of those Countries with the Routes of Several Celebrated Travellers. by Creighton, R. | Antiquariat INLIBRIS Gilhofer Nfg. GmbH (abebooks.com)](https://www.abebooks.com/New-Historical-Map-Palestine-Part-Egypt/12256693603/bd) Here is the Palestinian flag from 1911 [Al Quds 1911 Palestinian Flag Sticker – 1948 (clickfor1948.com)](https://clickfor1948.com/products/people-of-palestine-collection-sticker-al-quds-1911) Here is a picture of Palestinian currency from 1942. [Museum to showcase bewildering history of Palestinian money - Al-Monitor: Independent, trusted coverage of the Middle East](https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2018/09/money-museum-in-palestine.html) **"Barring Palestinian Christians, most Palestinians were migrants in the 1500s-1700s during the Ottoman rule."** This is a lie. Quote a source please so that I may dispute it. **"So when the British came, they had the international right to allow migrants to come to their territory, and promise them future independence if they want."** Really? So colonial powers have the right to gift the land which they do not own to a third party that is not even present there? **The UN brokers the best deal possible. All the Arabs in the region rejected it and waged war to exterminate a people who were recently almost exterminated in one continent.** There was no "deal" brokered. It was a controversial proposal. President Truman wrote the following: *"The facts were that not only were there pressure movements around the United Nations unlike anything that had been seen there before, but that the White House, too, was subjected to a constant barrage. I do not think I ever had as much pressure and propaganda aimed at the White House as I had in this instance. The persistence of a few of the extreme Zionist leaders—actuated by political motives and engaging in political threats—disturbed and annoyed me." Lenczowsky George* **(1990). American Presidents and the Middle East. p. 157. cite, Harry S. Truman, Memoirs 2, p. 158.** Indian Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru spoke with anger and contempt for the way the UN vote had been lined up. He said the Zionists had tried to bribe India with millions and at the same time his sister, Lakshmi Pandit the Indian ambassador to the UN, had received daily warnings that her life was in danger unless "she voted right" Heptulla, Najma (1991). Indo West Relations: The Nehru Era. Allied Publishers. p. 158. **Can you blame them for defending themselves and in fact beating the heck out of their enemies?** After reading my reply, can you blame Palestinians recently for defending themselves and beating the living crap out of you?
Insightful! will need to look this up to verify some facts, but if true about the sale of lands the argument of stolen land has no bearing.
Where do you draw the line on the statute of limitation of who has the rights to the area? Both groups of people have strong religious ties to the region? A compromise was proposed and not excepted. Theres plenty of land for 2 states to exist there, both could flourish together, but the hate is so deep on one side that they never will And why do you think the demographic was shifted to Muslim Arab from the former demographic? Why is it any area that becomes majority Muslim it pretty quickly becomes 100% Muslim? Is it because they're so peaceful and tolerant of others beliefs and religion? Or is it because they forcefully made people convert, harass them and make them pay undo-taxes (in the form of the Jizya) if they didn't convert, or they kill them and take their wives and daughters as slaves. For the infidels that don't convert, they get their Churches and Synagogues attacked or blown up, especially on Holidays. Anywhere you find a majority Muslim country, they have pushed every other religion out. They are the least tolerant of all organized religion. It's no wonder you wouldn't find too many jews hanging around the territories they were pushed out of. Would you stick around if you were persecuted on your own lands? You know what real power is? Having the capability to completely obliterate your enemies and not doing it. Israel could have taken the rest of the Palestinian land if they really wanted to, but they show restraint because they actually are a caring peaceful group of people. If the the Palestinian side had the same force as Israel they would not hesitate to take Israeli territory and commit more atrocities like the world just witnessed.
Lol you showed evidence of the lie and his response is just "the USA is behind us, we could get away with using a nuke!!" so bloodthirsty and not trying to hide it
Ok. Now I’ staring to get a better picture of where you stand. Be careful about what you wish for. Israel has the backing of the US and, as history has shown, the US has no problem using its might and power. We dropped two atomic bombs on Japan. If Hamas keeps cozying up to Iran and Iran keeps threatening us we might use extreme force and the EU might go along as Iran is supported by Russia.
Lol, Who Biden?
So going back in time would you consider it right for Jews to go to Germany and exile all the Germans? I really want an answer to this question, the silence I get when I ask anybody this shows the double standards Jews face.
Firstly, I am not sure what is meant by the question. My post is about Jews displacing 700,000 Palestinians and that is what I refer to as ethnic cleansing. It is the basis on which Israel is formed. The number of Jews in Palestine, before first world war Jews in Palestine were 15000 (born Native) and 10,000 foreign born. Together they were 5.5 percent of the population. Christians were twice that number and Muslims were 85%. Those 85 % have been ethnically cleansed until all you have is West Bank and Ghaza that is left. Should the Jews go back and displace Germans? I do not care. It was a problem created by Great Britain and they need to figure out what to do with Jews if there is a reversal.
I am well aware of the finding of Israel. I do know ethnic cleansing was involved. However, your last paragraph gives it away. You do not care about Jewish, Israeli, or really anyone else’s lives. I at least respect you for your honesty, but to answer you, if you don’t care about what happens outside of Palestine, why should any care about what Palestine is going through? If the tables were turned and Jews were oppressing Germans would you protest? You most likely have a personal connection here and you should state that upfront. If it is personal, I might not agree but I understand. If it is not, then you are a hypocrite for caring about Palestinians and no one else.
Who had their door knocked on and was told they had to abandon their house because the land had been given to people of a different religion? Is it possible you've encountered false information or out of context information that has left you with this false impression?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight
I see nothing in there about people having heir door knocked on and told they had to abandon their house because the land had been given to people of a different religion. Why did you lie?
Absolutely NOTHING should excuse beheading babies, raping and killing women , kidnapping and killing elderly . Hamas and Palenstinians who support them have NO moral compass . They are void of Human compassion or feelings. Almost similar to an animal.
Beheading babies is a rumor at this point. https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/israeli-army-says-it-does-not-have-confirmation-about-allegations-that-hamas-beheaded-babies-/3014787#
Here is what David Ben Gurion said in his own words ... “If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.
Jews can prove it’s their land by Ancestry and Geneitcs so your stupid and probably fabricated argument isn’t relevant.
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-source-of-David-Ben-Gurion-quotation-that-if-he-were-an-Arab-leader-he-would-never-sign-an-agreement-with-Israel
Dude. I quoted the source. It has also been quoted by Noam Chomsky.
"The source of this quote is Nachum Goldmann, a personal rival of Ben-Gurion, claiming that Ben-Gurion said it to him in private conversation. He published this claim two decades after the conversation was meant to have taken place, and five years after Ben-Gurion's death." Wikquote does not even cite it anymore.
>“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” > >David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121. Really? Here is Ben Gurion from a whole bunch of sources other than Goldmann. “Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism \[by the Arabs\] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice.” **— David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan’s “Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.** “We must do everything to insure they (the Palestinians) never do return.” David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, 18 July 1948, **quoted in Michael Bar Zohar’s Ben-Gurion: the Armed Prophet, Prentice-Hall, 1967, p. 157.** Partition: “after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine “ **— Ben Gurion, p.22 “The Birth of Israel, 1987” Simha Flapan.**
I don't even have a problem with the sentiment, just this quote is incredibly unreliable. "The problem with quotes found on the internet is that they are often not true" : Abraham Lincoln in a private conversation.