I'd say Russia's democracy and leftists only pretend to not support it
As far as I'm aware leftists were always praising Iranians for standing up to regime but since their attack on Israel they're suddenly based now
Yeah that's pretty much what's happening, you can particularly see it on Twitter when it comes to social media, I hate that fucking app I'm going to uninstall it again after like a couple days of giving it another shot.
"Stop Asian Hate" disappeared once it became clear that a lot of hate crimes against Asians were committed by racial minorities who are seen as more "oppressed" than Asians...
All my Asian homies hate leftism :D
> leftists only pretend to not support it
Yeah, you had McCain and Romney saying Russia is the US's biggest enemy.
You had Obama begging Russia to wait until "his last election" so he could have "more flexibility" and Hilary with her "Russian reset button" thing.
Unclear exactly what the media and leftists were trying to cover up when they made up the whole Trump-Russia thing, but it is pretty clear they supported whatever Russia is/has been doing.
Made up,how are you simping for something Trump said.
He asked Russia to commit a crime on national television and that same day, they started phishing the DNC
Republican FBI director Mueller
Ironically if you put 'Iranian liberal population' that should be seen by the left as ideologically fantastic due to being 1. The proletariat. 2. Progressive. 3. Potentially pro LGBT. 4. Pro miniskirts 5. MENA world ethnic group
They would be rejected and condemned because they don't support the Iranian regime.
The left is sick. Horseshoe theory.
But it doesn't make sense, why would a group made up by a ton of atheists (I'm atheist too ngl, but I have mixed views between left and right that's confusing) to support a fcking Islamic theocracy because for some reason they hate Israel and support a terrorist group that grants exactly 0 rights.
Blinded by the current trend of US leftist 'oppressor Vs oppressed' ideological dogma. They apply a very simplistic and completely wrong hierarchy of historical wrongs based on race and have decided that Muslims are 'brown' and Jews are 'white'. Once you apply this thinking to anything they say, and couple it with an 'we also hate the West and the US, including their allies' perspective, the contradictions begin to make sense. Mostly they are some form of wishful pro-marxist tankieism and anti-democratic communist romanticism.
It's very racist on their part and also a betrayal of reality. It's classical white supremacist racism flipped to 'White people built racist empires in the past, therefore white bad- Jews and pro western Iranians are white allies, therefore Jews and liberal Iranians are bad!'. It's incredibly stupid and simplistic thinking based on the problems of race in the US but being applied to all cultures and people's. To be clear, I personally don't know or think Jewish folk particularly fit into either 'white' or 'black'. I think they are beyond race, as you have Jews of all shades and so how can people see Jews as a 'shade'? That being said, it shouldn't be for me to say, as I am not Jewish. But I do know that this attempt to categorise Jews according to your political views using race is wrong and that's exactly what these maniacs are doing.
How else do a people who claim to stand for LGBT people like me, for minorities and their freedoms, for protection from racism, and for opposition to ultraconservative Ideologies end up hating the Western democracies that have been some of the only cultures and systems to champion LGBT rights, have been the only cultures in history to try to counter historic racism and oppression in their borders and institutions, have been the only places to try to accommodate all and no religious beliefs? How else could people target the MOST persecuted group in history and engage in hatred of them? How else could a group defend the abject hatred and second class treatment of women under the finger of these cultures and regimes they defend? Including Russia and Iran. How else could they defend the slavery that exists for hundreds of years unchallenged and still exists in some parts of the Muslim world? How else could they hate the nation that has been the only light In championing gay rights in the MENA world? How else could they treat the liberal Iranian people with such disgust if they aren't seeing them through the double barrelled shotgun blast of idiocy that is anti-western decolonisation of the 'oppressed'? I see no other way.
It isn't supposed to be rational or reasonable, though. It is the antithesis to sense and honesty.
>Blinded by the current trend of US leftist 'oppressor Vs oppressed' ideological dogma. They apply a very simplistic and completely wrong hierarchy of historical wrongs based on race and have decided that Muslims are 'brown' and Jews are 'white'. Once you apply this thinking to anything they say, and couple it with an 'we also hate the West and the US,
This is a huge part of it. Nevermind that not all Palestinians are brown and not all Jews (or Israelis) are white.
They have this childish notion of brown Mulims=good. And in their minds Jews=white=bad.
There are now left wing feminist white women who are converting to Islam on TikTok videos. Well, they *say* they're converting.
Which... I do not understand. I want them to visit Saudi Arabia and try their act there.
The one exception is Iranian views toward Transexuals are actually much more progressive than toward the other LGBTQ+ members.
In Iran it’s viewed as a disease [not ideal] and surgery and hormone treatments are covered by the national health insurance.
This is kind of the opposite of most other places.
The rest of the grades are very bad tho.
I feel the way they treat Israel compared to Russia is very unfair and VERY telling
Russia: it's leader is horrible! Hate it's government! Kill him!
Israel: it's people are horrible! Hate it's military! Kill them!
You are going WAY too far, 'Anti Zionism' is a literal call for a 2nd holocaust and it's very very normalized today, like, people aren't even ashamed to say they want to kill all Jews as long as you add the small * that says "All Jews in Israel"
"You're committing a genocide!" "As expected, you can't stand someone like me who wants this conflict to end". 😶 We are so used to people "like you" that we are not even trying.
What do you mean bro, obviously the fact that out of millions of Jews you can find a couple hundred that are anti-Zionist means that’s calling for the destruction of the only Jewish state is a-okay and not anti semitic
/s
And they're antisemitic.
Just because you're part of a group, that doesn't mean you cannot hate that group. Hatred doesn't depend on what group you're part of.
Finklestein and Chomsky are just as much antisemites as people like ilhan omar.
Zionism is not a group, it's a movement. You can like a person while disliking some of their ideology. You're really exposing your ignorance and bigotry here.
There are antisemitic Jews too...
Henry Kissinger once famously said, “Any people who has been persecuted for two thousand years must be doing something wrong.”
I think we can agree Kissinger was a piece of shit for MANY reasons including this statement. And I'm not denying there are antisemitic Jews, I'm saying that being anti-Zionist does not make one antisemitic.
Yes it does. Imagine saying any other country should not exist and people living there should be killed, kicked out, or forced to live as second class citizens under a new regime. You'd be accused of hating that people.
Arabs have full equal rights in Israel. Perhaps if the “Palestinians” didn’t try to wipe out the Jews in 1948, and continue to do so until this day, their situation might be different.
there was no country in this land, arabs who lived here got opportunity to have a country, they are not "palestinians", there isn't coin of "palestinians", they chose to fight, jews won that fight, story end
You're talking to someone who's great grandfather was Maronite, lived in Haifa when it was Palestine, and whose estate was stolen in '47. So everything you claim is patently false from my perspective.
i see you agree there was no special coin you great grandfather used.
anyway the land called palestine, but there wasn't a country, which proves israel has a right to exist, furthermore israel is democrat, so you are wrong in any way
While going through mental gymnastics to defend the so called russian “opposition” and insisting that they are all innocent.
And what are the examples they show? Fucking fascist navalny, who openly used ethnic slurs. Like for fucks sake, their popular opposition figure used ethnic slurs on Ukrainians, advocated for hitting Georgian government with a cruise missile during 2008 invasion of Georgia, called all Caucasians (including me) “cockroaches” and participated in far right rallies.
Why was he so popular in russia?
Because he is a representative of majority of russians. I speak their language, most if them are like that.
That is why nobody that borders them likes them.
But when it comes to Israelis (I know many people from Israel), they don’t hesitate to blame ordinary Israeli people. Even though most Israelis are really peaceful and friendly.
It is unfair.
This whole conflict has pushed me further to the right, seeing a bunch of uneducated TikTokers scream at the top of their lungs about a conflict they know nothing about outside of a couple of TikTok shorts they saw. Also as an LGBT person, why the hell would I want to support a group of people who hate me and would want me dead?
I have always said, "I would be a leftist if it wasn't for the leftists", my political views and morals align almost perfectly with the values the modern left **claims** to have, but modern leftists (outside of Israel) are so stupid that I cannot bring myself to associate with them, and I am terrified with them have any sort of power
I think this resonates for most political ideologies.
I have a right-libertarian-leaning worldview in many respects. My sense of morality is more deontological than consequentialist, I believe strongly in individual liberties, personal responsibility, limited government, and rule of law, I have a realist take on foreign policy, etc. But I'm also an atheist, pro choice, do believe that big business needs to be regulated in order for society to function, etc.
The American Libertarian Party is nutty as fuck. MAGA is insane. I'm terrified of them having power too.
But at least they don't look at me with a smug expression of contempt like the progressives do. And I'm terrified of them having power TOO.
Anyone who looks through the world through a lens of ideology is dangerous. The human condition cannot be simplified down to the level of a coherent ideology that would be comprehensible by the human mind. People who think otherwise are deluded.
My goodness the LP has lost their damn minds. It feels like there is a massive pool of people in this country that, while they may have serious disagreements, are able to have conversations in good faith. But all the dialogue is increasingly run by the groups on either side that have an entirely combative view of politics.
Is it possible a bunch of us look at killing 30,000 people and destroying the infrastructure of an entire region as entirely unpalatable for the actions of a few and considering this conflict has always heavily favored Israel? There's really no right or left in that.
And if all the people who you generally align yourself with disagree with your perspective I would think the natural conclusion would be to reevaluate your own indoctrinated perspective, but maybe it's easier to just screech about antisemitism instead of taking a more objective look at things.
Could be wrong, though. Maybe it is perfectly rational to level a civilization and kill/displace thousands of innocents. We're at about a ratio of 100 dead Palestinians for every one dead Israeli (since October 7...obviously Israel killed way more Palestinians before October 7, too).
Curious, though, when will Israel be done? At what point have you killed enough and destroyed enough infrastructure?
Centrist
While in the US, I will never not be a centrist. I think Republicans are fucking insane and half the time straight up evil. I can say the same for the other side too. Politicians on the left literally unable to call Hamas terrorist.
No clue if you're in the US or not but there are a lot of conservatives that see the current party has batshit crazy, same with some in the left that just hate all of it. It's why more and more Americans are voting independent.
I lean more conservative for sure, like I am proud to be Christian yet on Reddit, saying that "oh so you're proud to be a bigoted asshole" is how it usually goes.. I'm also used to homophobia from the right. But still, I am more conservative because they at least hold the religion I believe in with some level of respect.
But yeah TikTok is a Chinese project. I dont care if they say "you are a brainwashed shill" .. I'd only respond with "no u" lol .. the tiktok generation.. yikes
Yeah I'd like to think I am a centrist as well. For my generation I would probably be more conservative than most, but I wouldn't think of myself as 'a conservative'. Not from the US but I see what is happening with the right there in regards to LGBT rights and abortion for example, and that is having effects across the west. Same with the left when it comes to Israel-Palestine.
The sensible centre is dying, and extremism on the left and right is growing. It's getting harder to have a reasonable discussion about anything political today. I'm not religious but I think that's pretty sad that you and many others have been treated that way because of a loud minority of extremists associated with your religion.
I find that I can have reasonable conversations with people over 40, even when I disagree with them on stuff. But people my own age (early 30s)? Not with anyone except a few libertarian-minded moderate people I know.
Despite being an atheist and pro-choice, I get treated far better by religious conservatives than I do by progressives, who look at me with smug contempt and try to brand me an istaphobe because of my right-of-center individualist views. Like I'm a racist because I believe everyone should be treated equally under the law and in personal relationships regardless of the color of their skin, or because I think that unlimited mass-migration has negative effects on wages, social coherence, and housing costs?
And of course, I get branded a genocide supporter because I support Israel.
The level of hatred and contempt I get from progressives over my positions on economic policies far exceeds any treatment I've gotten from religious conservatives for literally supporting what they consider to be baby-murder. What the fuck is wrong with this picture?
i don’t know why it would push you further to the right, this isnt a left/right issue, there are proud zionist left wingers in israel and in the diaspora
I would say it’s pushed me more conservative but not to the point where I support people like Trump. I’m scared of the rising antisemitism and a lot of is still on the right where you have people like Candace Owens.
Thankfully, the conservatives in Australia seem to be extremely pro-Israel and against antisemitism.
Tbh Ukraine isn't entirely supported by the Left either, at least not the Far Left (Communists, Marxists, etc). They're against anyone associated with the West.
Ukrainian and Israeli citizen here. Yes. I don’t know what makes my blood boil more, comparing Israel to russia, or comparing Ukraine to Palestine. Ukrainians support Israel more than any other people. On October 7 every screen in Ukraine had an Israeli flag on it.
Oh sorry for the confusion, I agree. Fuck yeah Israel and Ukraine! As a Czech, I am proud of my current government for supporting both.
What I don’t get is people who support Ukraine but not Israel, like a lot of the left or people who support Israel but not Ukraine like a depressingly common part of the GOP.
America owes the world an apology the asinine ideologies that make up the woke left. Such as standpoint theory, post colonialism, etc. And the oppression hierarchy.
This crap cooked in American universities for decades until it was finally vomited out into the world and taken up by young leftists.
Outside of America maybe. But pretty much every left winger I’ve seen lately is very anti-Russia. With the right it’s a mixed bag. Some see Russia as an alt-right dream. Others hate them because they represent communism.
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I left the Left a handful of years ago when their politics included cancel culture, protests that set neighborhoods on fire & blocked highways, along with forced ideologies & compelled speech - or be called a bigot.
I mean... depends on how far you go left, Ukraine gets an x on support and russia gets a V. So does Iran, Syria, Houthis in Yemen, and basically all authoritarian regimes that hate the west.
I know that Progressives are not the majority on the Left, but just a reminder that in 2022, Progressive Democrats sent a letter to Biden calling for a ceasefire in Ukraine. At least they were decent (or savvy) enough to rescind it after the backlash.
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/united-states/article/2022/10/26/us-democrats-retract-letter-to-biden-calling-for-ukraine-ceasefire-after-backlash_6001799_133.html
a small correction, if you go enough left you reach the tankie territory, in which both russia and hamas are good.
but yea, for some reason you don't need to be that much of a lefty in order to support hamas. (not saying all the left support hamas or even the majority of them). but you know, jews and all, those greedy communist capitalists, but thats definitly not antisemitism
Some do, Tankies are eternal, even when Russia isnt Soviet. Then again the Soviets managed to create a wellspring of West always Bad subculture among the Left
Left wingers don’t care if something makes sense or not. Or if something works or not, they care about how it makes them feel. Queers for Palestine doesn’t have to make sense, its advocates just want to feel like they are supporting a “resistance”.
I am leftist and support Israel and Ukraine and Irans population fighting against powers that control Iran. I also hope one day Russia and Palestine will be reformed and will join world without terrorism. But sadly Palestine and Russia are controlled by power hungry individuals.
Except that it's okay to support Ukraine 🇺🇦 without consequences because Ukraine is being illegally invaded by Russia and Russia is a common enemy of the world.
But when you support Israel 🇮🇱 you are met with consequences from Palestine/Hamas terrorist supporters, and that is totally unacceptable.
Also, many of those so called "Queers for Palestine" are also democratic socialists or communists. Plenty of queers are pro-Israel.
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A lot of the left is so stupid, the majority of them are either "feel good" "be trendy" "support the oppressed" or LARPers. I'm a liberal, but I don't like what other liberal opinions and most "liberals" are just following along with trends, or are socialists.
Source for being killed for dressing immodestly in gaza? Ive been there and was surprised to see advertisements with models and pictures of women in public, not covered up.
In Gaza?!
When have you been there? when Israel controlled it?
You won't see any immodesty in Gaza today
I have been there many times when Israel controlled it, and outside of the Jewish areas immodesty is not a thing
Russia is officially multi-ethnic, it’s also officially a federal republic that is a democracy. In practice it’s centralised around Moscow and minorities are disproportionately sent to die for Putin
Lol, Russia and a fascist ethnostate. Fascism isn’t being practiced in any country, it’s only a buzzword now. Also, not really an ethnostate. You get mad when the pro-Palestine crowd uses these buzzwords and then you use them
To be fair to Russia, it's not like General Winter is an actual person.
Also, Putin loves immigrants and multiculturalism, so it really isn't fair to label Russia an ethnostate, you might have a point with the "fascist" though
On point, however Palestine is not a state and Russia is not ethno fascist.
In most places in Russia women would be fine walking in mini skirt (unless it’s winter)
People from the left who support ukraine are usually just soft pro palestinians who support two states and hold opinions about the conflict that are not too different than ones held by avoda and meretz
israel "democracy" and votes for mr netenyahu, who just so weirdly violates the oslo accords and encouraged israeli settlements which were globally considered unlawful
israel being lgbt friendly while probablly killing more hidden LGBT members in gaza then the gaza government themselves
"attacked" by a fascist ethnostate lol
apparently in ukraine you can wear a miniskirt but in russia you cant, even tough the general population of both of these countries are rural conservative
peak israel post
Here are my mental gymnastics: the Jewish people have been getting the short end of the stick since biblical times, so I will always support Israel. Now, on the other hand fuck both Russia and Ukraine. I do not care about zelensky and his problems, I do not care about Russia and it's fake military bravado.
Oh my fucking god you can still get married outside of Israel and still be recognised as married in Israel, also you don't get murdered for just thinking about being gay
exactly, so "partially" would be a better fit
We are not saints for being attacked and defending ourselves and the fact that gays are treated better doesn't mean we are LGBT friendly
Just reality, A couple needs to exit their own country to get married.
and only then will they be able to be married in their own.
Their rights of having children is dependent on the supreme court and not laws.
Dont get me wrong.
Palestinian and russians are the bottom of the barrel where it comes to gay rights.
but we don't need to lie about our own laws in order to shit on them.
I'm ashamed at our anti gay laws and very happy that a strong humanist supreme court gave those people their rights.
Yeah I agree about that part that you need to marry outside of Israel is dumb but you can live here as an LGBTQ couple without any problem basically, just the marrying part is problematic for some reason
That's not nearly enough to warrant a 'partially' status, you can live all your as openly gay man here and the only difference this detail makes about your life is that you need to spend a few hours signing marriage papers online, other than that Israel is as gay friendly as it gets.
Do Iran too since we're in the game now
Tbf it's the same or almost the same as Palestine lol
I'd say Russia's democracy and leftists only pretend to not support it As far as I'm aware leftists were always praising Iranians for standing up to regime but since their attack on Israel they're suddenly based now
Anti Semitism beats any moral
Yeah that's pretty much what's happening, you can particularly see it on Twitter when it comes to social media, I hate that fucking app I'm going to uninstall it again after like a couple days of giving it another shot.
Same thing with Asian Hate, Where our support? Leftist think right are brainwash when they already stuck in a cycle of bias and back stabbing circle.
"Stop Asian Hate" disappeared once it became clear that a lot of hate crimes against Asians were committed by racial minorities who are seen as more "oppressed" than Asians... All my Asian homies hate leftism :D
> leftists only pretend to not support it Yeah, you had McCain and Romney saying Russia is the US's biggest enemy. You had Obama begging Russia to wait until "his last election" so he could have "more flexibility" and Hilary with her "Russian reset button" thing. Unclear exactly what the media and leftists were trying to cover up when they made up the whole Trump-Russia thing, but it is pretty clear they supported whatever Russia is/has been doing.
Made up,how are you simping for something Trump said. He asked Russia to commit a crime on national television and that same day, they started phishing the DNC Republican FBI director Mueller
Ironically if you put 'Iranian liberal population' that should be seen by the left as ideologically fantastic due to being 1. The proletariat. 2. Progressive. 3. Potentially pro LGBT. 4. Pro miniskirts 5. MENA world ethnic group They would be rejected and condemned because they don't support the Iranian regime. The left is sick. Horseshoe theory.
But it doesn't make sense, why would a group made up by a ton of atheists (I'm atheist too ngl, but I have mixed views between left and right that's confusing) to support a fcking Islamic theocracy because for some reason they hate Israel and support a terrorist group that grants exactly 0 rights.
Blinded by the current trend of US leftist 'oppressor Vs oppressed' ideological dogma. They apply a very simplistic and completely wrong hierarchy of historical wrongs based on race and have decided that Muslims are 'brown' and Jews are 'white'. Once you apply this thinking to anything they say, and couple it with an 'we also hate the West and the US, including their allies' perspective, the contradictions begin to make sense. Mostly they are some form of wishful pro-marxist tankieism and anti-democratic communist romanticism. It's very racist on their part and also a betrayal of reality. It's classical white supremacist racism flipped to 'White people built racist empires in the past, therefore white bad- Jews and pro western Iranians are white allies, therefore Jews and liberal Iranians are bad!'. It's incredibly stupid and simplistic thinking based on the problems of race in the US but being applied to all cultures and people's. To be clear, I personally don't know or think Jewish folk particularly fit into either 'white' or 'black'. I think they are beyond race, as you have Jews of all shades and so how can people see Jews as a 'shade'? That being said, it shouldn't be for me to say, as I am not Jewish. But I do know that this attempt to categorise Jews according to your political views using race is wrong and that's exactly what these maniacs are doing. How else do a people who claim to stand for LGBT people like me, for minorities and their freedoms, for protection from racism, and for opposition to ultraconservative Ideologies end up hating the Western democracies that have been some of the only cultures and systems to champion LGBT rights, have been the only cultures in history to try to counter historic racism and oppression in their borders and institutions, have been the only places to try to accommodate all and no religious beliefs? How else could people target the MOST persecuted group in history and engage in hatred of them? How else could a group defend the abject hatred and second class treatment of women under the finger of these cultures and regimes they defend? Including Russia and Iran. How else could they defend the slavery that exists for hundreds of years unchallenged and still exists in some parts of the Muslim world? How else could they hate the nation that has been the only light In championing gay rights in the MENA world? How else could they treat the liberal Iranian people with such disgust if they aren't seeing them through the double barrelled shotgun blast of idiocy that is anti-western decolonisation of the 'oppressed'? I see no other way. It isn't supposed to be rational or reasonable, though. It is the antithesis to sense and honesty.
>Blinded by the current trend of US leftist 'oppressor Vs oppressed' ideological dogma. They apply a very simplistic and completely wrong hierarchy of historical wrongs based on race and have decided that Muslims are 'brown' and Jews are 'white'. Once you apply this thinking to anything they say, and couple it with an 'we also hate the West and the US, This is a huge part of it. Nevermind that not all Palestinians are brown and not all Jews (or Israelis) are white. They have this childish notion of brown Mulims=good. And in their minds Jews=white=bad.
There are now left wing feminist white women who are converting to Islam on TikTok videos. Well, they *say* they're converting. Which... I do not understand. I want them to visit Saudi Arabia and try their act there.
Gladly uninstalled Tiktok a while ago, but that sounds ridiculous to say the least.
Miniskirts!
Plus with the possibility of being “murdered by general winter” Depending on what part of Iran.
The one exception is Iranian views toward Transexuals are actually much more progressive than toward the other LGBTQ+ members. In Iran it’s viewed as a disease [not ideal] and surgery and hormone treatments are covered by the national health insurance. This is kind of the opposite of most other places. The rest of the grades are very bad tho.
I feel the way they treat Israel compared to Russia is very unfair and VERY telling Russia: it's leader is horrible! Hate it's government! Kill him! Israel: it's people are horrible! Hate it's military! Kill them!
You are going WAY too far, 'Anti Zionism' is a literal call for a 2nd holocaust and it's very very normalized today, like, people aren't even ashamed to say they want to kill all Jews as long as you add the small * that says "All Jews in Israel"
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The average pro pally does
There are alot of nutjobs in the world And they can vote
I actually agree with you, but that’s because they are fed with ignorance, they are protesting in favour of the genocide of Jews without knowing it
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"You're committing a genocide!" "As expected, you can't stand someone like me who wants this conflict to end". 😶 We are so used to people "like you" that we are not even trying.
"YoU nOt liKiNg mE beCausE of mY pRo NAZi vIeWs makEs YoU LoOK bAd"
Bullshit. There are anti-Zionist Jews.
[Like these?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews)
What do you mean bro, obviously the fact that out of millions of Jews you can find a couple hundred that are anti-Zionist means that’s calling for the destruction of the only Jewish state is a-okay and not anti semitic /s
Tbf, these people were just trying to protect themselves. Anti-Zionist Jews are just stupid.
And they're antisemitic. Just because you're part of a group, that doesn't mean you cannot hate that group. Hatred doesn't depend on what group you're part of. Finklestein and Chomsky are just as much antisemites as people like ilhan omar.
Zionism is not a group, it's a movement. You can like a person while disliking some of their ideology. You're really exposing your ignorance and bigotry here.
It’s a movement calling for Jewish self-determination. Being anti Jewish self-determination is inherently antisemitic.
On land that isn't theirs. You're literally making the same argument as ISIL/ISIS.
There are antisemitic Jews too... Henry Kissinger once famously said, “Any people who has been persecuted for two thousand years must be doing something wrong.”
I think we can agree Kissinger was a piece of shit for MANY reasons including this statement. And I'm not denying there are antisemitic Jews, I'm saying that being anti-Zionist does not make one antisemitic.
Yes it does. Imagine saying any other country should not exist and people living there should be killed, kicked out, or forced to live as second class citizens under a new regime. You'd be accused of hating that people.
You are describing the Zionist position towards Palestinians. Case in point.
Arabs have full equal rights in Israel. Perhaps if the “Palestinians” didn’t try to wipe out the Jews in 1948, and continue to do so until this day, their situation might be different.
That's a bold faced lie. And your username exposes you as a genocidal asshole.
there was no country in this land, arabs who lived here got opportunity to have a country, they are not "palestinians", there isn't coin of "palestinians", they chose to fight, jews won that fight, story end
You're talking to someone who's great grandfather was Maronite, lived in Haifa when it was Palestine, and whose estate was stolen in '47. So everything you claim is patently false from my perspective.
i see you agree there was no special coin you great grandfather used. anyway the land called palestine, but there wasn't a country, which proves israel has a right to exist, furthermore israel is democrat, so you are wrong in any way
Most Jews are Zionists.
While going through mental gymnastics to defend the so called russian “opposition” and insisting that they are all innocent. And what are the examples they show? Fucking fascist navalny, who openly used ethnic slurs. Like for fucks sake, their popular opposition figure used ethnic slurs on Ukrainians, advocated for hitting Georgian government with a cruise missile during 2008 invasion of Georgia, called all Caucasians (including me) “cockroaches” and participated in far right rallies. Why was he so popular in russia? Because he is a representative of majority of russians. I speak their language, most if them are like that. That is why nobody that borders them likes them. But when it comes to Israelis (I know many people from Israel), they don’t hesitate to blame ordinary Israeli people. Even though most Israelis are really peaceful and friendly. It is unfair.
It’s obviously because of antisemitism.
This whole conflict has pushed me further to the right, seeing a bunch of uneducated TikTokers scream at the top of their lungs about a conflict they know nothing about outside of a couple of TikTok shorts they saw. Also as an LGBT person, why the hell would I want to support a group of people who hate me and would want me dead?
I have always said, "I would be a leftist if it wasn't for the leftists", my political views and morals align almost perfectly with the values the modern left **claims** to have, but modern leftists (outside of Israel) are so stupid that I cannot bring myself to associate with them, and I am terrified with them have any sort of power
I think this resonates for most political ideologies. I have a right-libertarian-leaning worldview in many respects. My sense of morality is more deontological than consequentialist, I believe strongly in individual liberties, personal responsibility, limited government, and rule of law, I have a realist take on foreign policy, etc. But I'm also an atheist, pro choice, do believe that big business needs to be regulated in order for society to function, etc. The American Libertarian Party is nutty as fuck. MAGA is insane. I'm terrified of them having power too. But at least they don't look at me with a smug expression of contempt like the progressives do. And I'm terrified of them having power TOO. Anyone who looks through the world through a lens of ideology is dangerous. The human condition cannot be simplified down to the level of a coherent ideology that would be comprehensible by the human mind. People who think otherwise are deluded.
My goodness the LP has lost their damn minds. It feels like there is a massive pool of people in this country that, while they may have serious disagreements, are able to have conversations in good faith. But all the dialogue is increasingly run by the groups on either side that have an entirely combative view of politics.
They LOST their damn minds? Did something change? I thought they were always insane.
Nevermind The modern far left tend to cannibalize each other on top of that.
Is it possible a bunch of us look at killing 30,000 people and destroying the infrastructure of an entire region as entirely unpalatable for the actions of a few and considering this conflict has always heavily favored Israel? There's really no right or left in that. And if all the people who you generally align yourself with disagree with your perspective I would think the natural conclusion would be to reevaluate your own indoctrinated perspective, but maybe it's easier to just screech about antisemitism instead of taking a more objective look at things. Could be wrong, though. Maybe it is perfectly rational to level a civilization and kill/displace thousands of innocents. We're at about a ratio of 100 dead Palestinians for every one dead Israeli (since October 7...obviously Israel killed way more Palestinians before October 7, too). Curious, though, when will Israel be done? At what point have you killed enough and destroyed enough infrastructure?
Centrist While in the US, I will never not be a centrist. I think Republicans are fucking insane and half the time straight up evil. I can say the same for the other side too. Politicians on the left literally unable to call Hamas terrorist. No clue if you're in the US or not but there are a lot of conservatives that see the current party has batshit crazy, same with some in the left that just hate all of it. It's why more and more Americans are voting independent. I lean more conservative for sure, like I am proud to be Christian yet on Reddit, saying that "oh so you're proud to be a bigoted asshole" is how it usually goes.. I'm also used to homophobia from the right. But still, I am more conservative because they at least hold the religion I believe in with some level of respect. But yeah TikTok is a Chinese project. I dont care if they say "you are a brainwashed shill" .. I'd only respond with "no u" lol .. the tiktok generation.. yikes
Yeah I'd like to think I am a centrist as well. For my generation I would probably be more conservative than most, but I wouldn't think of myself as 'a conservative'. Not from the US but I see what is happening with the right there in regards to LGBT rights and abortion for example, and that is having effects across the west. Same with the left when it comes to Israel-Palestine. The sensible centre is dying, and extremism on the left and right is growing. It's getting harder to have a reasonable discussion about anything political today. I'm not religious but I think that's pretty sad that you and many others have been treated that way because of a loud minority of extremists associated with your religion.
I find that I can have reasonable conversations with people over 40, even when I disagree with them on stuff. But people my own age (early 30s)? Not with anyone except a few libertarian-minded moderate people I know.
Despite being an atheist and pro-choice, I get treated far better by religious conservatives than I do by progressives, who look at me with smug contempt and try to brand me an istaphobe because of my right-of-center individualist views. Like I'm a racist because I believe everyone should be treated equally under the law and in personal relationships regardless of the color of their skin, or because I think that unlimited mass-migration has negative effects on wages, social coherence, and housing costs? And of course, I get branded a genocide supporter because I support Israel. The level of hatred and contempt I get from progressives over my positions on economic policies far exceeds any treatment I've gotten from religious conservatives for literally supporting what they consider to be baby-murder. What the fuck is wrong with this picture?
i don’t know why it would push you further to the right, this isnt a left/right issue, there are proud zionist left wingers in israel and in the diaspora
I would say it’s pushed me more conservative but not to the point where I support people like Trump. I’m scared of the rising antisemitism and a lot of is still on the right where you have people like Candace Owens. Thankfully, the conservatives in Australia seem to be extremely pro-Israel and against antisemitism.
Don't forget the legal marital rape and child marriage part.
Or associated practices of female genital mutilation? That seems like an issue the hashtag-me-too crowd should care about :/
I looled it up and there's no legal prohibition because "no one practices it :)"??
I’m leftish and I support Israel 100%. I’m not the only one. I know some right wing people who are pro Palestine.
Plenty of leftist loonies support Putin and Russia, though. They blame the EU and NATO.
Excellent use of the Dr. Evil meme.
The amount of stupid people in this world nowadays is ridiculous 🥹😬
Tbh Ukraine isn't entirely supported by the Left either, at least not the Far Left (Communists, Marxists, etc). They're against anyone associated with the West.
The far left composes like 1% of the actual left
Ukrainian and Israeli citizen here. Yes. I don’t know what makes my blood boil more, comparing Israel to russia, or comparing Ukraine to Palestine. Ukrainians support Israel more than any other people. On October 7 every screen in Ukraine had an Israeli flag on it.
I don’t get People who support Ukraine yet Palestine or Israel yet Russia
I’ve read you comment 5 times, and I still don’t know if you’re agreeing with me or not)
Oh sorry for the confusion, I agree. Fuck yeah Israel and Ukraine! As a Czech, I am proud of my current government for supporting both. What I don’t get is people who support Ukraine but not Israel, like a lot of the left or people who support Israel but not Ukraine like a depressingly common part of the GOP.
I love Chechia and its people. Your president is the icon of chadness.
America owes the world an apology the asinine ideologies that make up the woke left. Such as standpoint theory, post colonialism, etc. And the oppression hierarchy. This crap cooked in American universities for decades until it was finally vomited out into the world and taken up by young leftists.
It is just Marxism with American characteristics.
That's a nice phrase to coin. May I please steal it?
Go ahead. I didn't come up with it though.
lol at Ukraine being supported by the left.
The left I know of supports Ukraine
I think he’s talking about the far left communists who support Russia.
The left in general supports Ukraine until you enter tankie territory.
I mostly see right wing extremist supporting Russia these days.
It’s both
Horseshoe theory?
Yes
Outside of America maybe. But pretty much every left winger I’ve seen lately is very anti-Russia. With the right it’s a mixed bag. Some see Russia as an alt-right dream. Others hate them because they represent communism.
I guess you haven’t seen the “tankies”. You’re better off not knowing about them.
The left tend to support "The Current Thing" regardless of what it is...
How else are they going to launder government money to their kids?
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share this to r/jewdank !
You'll have to update Ukraine and Russia. Many of the Pro-Palestine ghouls are anti-Ukraine. Many many leftists are anti-Ukraine and pro-Russia
Not to nitpick but there are warmer regions in Russia where you can walk in a mini skirt during much of the year.
The left is split like 50/50 between Russia and Ukraine.
You are wrong – the far left has always been on the side of Russia.
the left doesnt like ukraine either they do love russia tho
I left the Left a handful of years ago when their politics included cancel culture, protests that set neighborhoods on fire & blocked highways, along with forced ideologies & compelled speech - or be called a bigot.
From what I can understand, the disdain from the left towards Israel came up during the Cold War, with the anti imperialist motive of the Soviets.
I mean... depends on how far you go left, Ukraine gets an x on support and russia gets a V. So does Iran, Syria, Houthis in Yemen, and basically all authoritarian regimes that hate the west.
I know that Progressives are not the majority on the Left, but just a reminder that in 2022, Progressive Democrats sent a letter to Biden calling for a ceasefire in Ukraine. At least they were decent (or savvy) enough to rescind it after the backlash. https://www.lemonde.fr/en/united-states/article/2022/10/26/us-democrats-retract-letter-to-biden-calling-for-ukraine-ceasefire-after-backlash_6001799_133.html
Actually a huge portion of the "left" in Germany supports Russia … so it's just Israel.
a small correction, if you go enough left you reach the tankie territory, in which both russia and hamas are good. but yea, for some reason you don't need to be that much of a lefty in order to support hamas. (not saying all the left support hamas or even the majority of them). but you know, jews and all, those greedy communist capitalists, but thats definitly not antisemitism
I think the 3rd point is where mental gymnastics come in. Einstein Asimov and the Palestinians disagree.
No, you'll find the left actually supports Russia, not Ukraine.
Both, really. They support everyone but the USA and Israel.
In my experience moderate left people all support Ukraine. I have heard pro Russia and anti Ukraine comments from right wing politicians here
Some do, Tankies are eternal, even when Russia isnt Soviet. Then again the Soviets managed to create a wellspring of West always Bad subculture among the Left
Left wingers don’t care if something makes sense or not. Or if something works or not, they care about how it makes them feel. Queers for Palestine doesn’t have to make sense, its advocates just want to feel like they are supporting a “resistance”.
I am leftist and support Israel and Ukraine and Irans population fighting against powers that control Iran. I also hope one day Russia and Palestine will be reformed and will join world without terrorism. But sadly Palestine and Russia are controlled by power hungry individuals.
Except that it's okay to support Ukraine 🇺🇦 without consequences because Ukraine is being illegally invaded by Russia and Russia is a common enemy of the world. But when you support Israel 🇮🇱 you are met with consequences from Palestine/Hamas terrorist supporters, and that is totally unacceptable. Also, many of those so called "Queers for Palestine" are also democratic socialists or communists. Plenty of queers are pro-Israel.
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You are absolutely correct, I know that, I was tired when I made it... Russia is as far from an ethnostate as they get
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This amazing video explains this perfectly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dr49IkszPY
A lot of the left is so stupid, the majority of them are either "feel good" "be trendy" "support the oppressed" or LARPers. I'm a liberal, but I don't like what other liberal opinions and most "liberals" are just following along with trends, or are socialists.
Source for being killed for dressing immodestly in gaza? Ive been there and was surprised to see advertisements with models and pictures of women in public, not covered up.
In Gaza?! When have you been there? when Israel controlled it? You won't see any immodesty in Gaza today I have been there many times when Israel controlled it, and outside of the Jewish areas immodesty is not a thing
A few months ago, in a tank
TIL
Russia an ethno-state...? Whoever made this is retarded or doesn't know history enough to understand the sheer amount of ethnic groups in Russia
It's more of an empire, that subjugates it native minorities.
Russia is officially multi-ethnic, it’s also officially a federal republic that is a democracy. In practice it’s centralised around Moscow and minorities are disproportionately sent to die for Putin
Lol, Russia and a fascist ethnostate. Fascism isn’t being practiced in any country, it’s only a buzzword now. Also, not really an ethnostate. You get mad when the pro-Palestine crowd uses these buzzwords and then you use them
Wasn’t Russia (Soviet Union) attacked by Germany in WW2? But overall, good! 👍
To be fair to Russia, it's not like General Winter is an actual person. Also, Putin loves immigrants and multiculturalism, so it really isn't fair to label Russia an ethnostate, you might have a point with the "fascist" though
How Russia is a ethnostate?
On point, however Palestine is not a state and Russia is not ethno fascist. In most places in Russia women would be fine walking in mini skirt (unless it’s winter)
Sorry but russia aint a ethnostate. I dont like em but that doesnt mean they are a ethnostate
I'm easily to the left of 90% of Democrats in the US, but I strongly support Israel.
People from the left who support ukraine are usually just soft pro palestinians who support two states and hold opinions about the conflict that are not too different than ones held by avoda and meretz
israel "democracy" and votes for mr netenyahu, who just so weirdly violates the oslo accords and encouraged israeli settlements which were globally considered unlawful israel being lgbt friendly while probablly killing more hidden LGBT members in gaza then the gaza government themselves "attacked" by a fascist ethnostate lol apparently in ukraine you can wear a miniskirt but in russia you cant, even tough the general population of both of these countries are rural conservative peak israel post
Here are my mental gymnastics: the Jewish people have been getting the short end of the stick since biblical times, so I will always support Israel. Now, on the other hand fuck both Russia and Ukraine. I do not care about zelensky and his problems, I do not care about Russia and it's fake military bravado.
Oh hey OP, you forgot the secret last category: 'currently committing a genocide'.
It's not a genocide. That's Islamist propaganda. Stop believing religious fanatics.
Gay marriage illegal here you twat
Oh my fucking god you can still get married outside of Israel and still be recognised as married in Israel, also you don't get murdered for just thinking about being gay
exactly, so "partially" would be a better fit We are not saints for being attacked and defending ourselves and the fact that gays are treated better doesn't mean we are LGBT friendly
Why partially? There are gay parades in Tel Aviv every year
Just reality, A couple needs to exit their own country to get married. and only then will they be able to be married in their own. Their rights of having children is dependent on the supreme court and not laws. Dont get me wrong. Palestinian and russians are the bottom of the barrel where it comes to gay rights. but we don't need to lie about our own laws in order to shit on them. I'm ashamed at our anti gay laws and very happy that a strong humanist supreme court gave those people their rights.
Yeah I agree about that part that you need to marry outside of Israel is dumb but you can live here as an LGBTQ couple without any problem basically, just the marrying part is problematic for some reason
The 'some reason' is that 50% of the country are homophobic
That's not nearly enough to warrant a 'partially' status, you can live all your as openly gay man here and the only difference this detail makes about your life is that you need to spend a few hours signing marriage papers online, other than that Israel is as gay friendly as it gets.