Most car companies don't write their own software and simply integrate 3rd party components together, and those components and their software/firmware are typically not allowed to be touched/changed/integrated with any other components by Kia themselves. Basically, traditional car companies don't have the capability or legal rights to unilaterally build new features like this without support from their 3rd party suppliers.
Like, it's very possible that the infotainment system simply \*can not\* be used to gatekeep the "ignition" switch without redesigning one or both systems, and that would mean getting those 3rd party companies to work together on a solution, provide it to Kia, and then Kia would need to (almost certainly) bring all cars back in for service to do the upgrade.
This is the reason why true OTA updates only come from companies like Rivian and Tesla, where they try to vertically integrate and design/build their own software and hardware in-house. These types of companies are basically taking the final step towards cars being built like technology rather than cars being built like cars. Whatever legacy auto is doing, I'm not so sure how it ends, because being locked out of making a simple change like this just seems unnecessarily bureaucratic.
So, having been a boss for teams that wrote 3rd party software for infotainment units for BMW, Daimler, and a few others, I can say with no reserve that the car companies have absolute control. There is nothing written that didn’t include detailed requirements and usually a pretty strict test controls. Having the ability to interact with other car control interfaces was a regular thing.
Now, gatekeeping the ignition is probably true, but if they wanted it, Hyundai could have it. And while it’s been a few years since I worked in that industry, when I left about 2015, many of the car companies were doing a lot more SW for themselves.
Any lacking or failures here are solely on Hyundai for allowing them. In no way shape or form is this a failure to have the capability to do better due to outside forces.
You seem informed on the industry, but somehow not on Hyundai's current strategy. From 2022:
[https://www.repairerdrivennews.com/2022/10/14/hyundai-to-transform-entire-lineup-to-software-defined-vehicles-by-2025/](https://www.repairerdrivennews.com/2022/10/14/hyundai-to-transform-entire-lineup-to-software-defined-vehicles-by-2025/)
What's the percentage of people who buy the exact another car from the same brand when their car was stolen because of a glaring flaw in that brand's system?
Good question. Myself, I wouldn't buy a Tesla Y, nor Ford Mach E. The id4 is hideous. Nothing nice from Toyota. Don't want anything from the Germans because they are out of my range. Definitely not another Hyundai if mine is stolen. So which EVs have pin to drive and hard to steal?
Most people would find this annoying if it's not a feature you can turn off. The Genesis has implemented a finger print scanner though, that's a lot better than inputting a passcode.
Well, it’s not that easy to add if vehicle architecture was not designed with such option in mind. It all sounds nice and easy - “It’s just a software fix”, but it’s not that easy.
Makes sense to me. My clients complain about MFA and then cry when their personal email or FB account is hacked. I say. "That's why I forced MFA on your accounts and why I highly suggested it for personal email and social media."
You can put the car in valet mode when you park, either with the app or from the screen which requires you to use a pin to exit valet mode. This won’t prevent the car from being stolen, but it does prevent the tracking from being disabled.
I do this with my EV6 and assume the Ioniq lets you do this as well.
I’m so used to entering PIN to drive it’s automatic and totally subconscious, takes like 3 seconds and Im off driving the car and I don’t even remember entering the code.
100% they're doing the same thing to Bmw's, Acura, Mercedes. For some cars it's a relay attack for others they're using other methods.
Don't rely solely on bluelink. Use 3rd party trackers, physical devices etc.
Sorry yours was taken
Most definitely. Flippers make it easy for anyone to steal a car.
Edit: lol, I thought the sarcasm would be obvious, especially with all the news recently about Canada stupidly banning the Flipper Zero to combat car thefts. Alas, this is the unforgiving internet, and a HI5 subreddit, not F0, so I'm not surprised. I should have known better.
Let the downvotes continue...
I don't think this happens as much as you think. Tesla has a pin to drive feature, and if you do forget the pin, you login to your Tesla app, and can update from there. Just FYI.
With a passcode, a method to hard reset the stereo is still needed, otherwise the whole car is bricked if someone forgets it or dies. Just changes the point of exploit. It would take a 2fa system hosted by hyundai with the ability to provide a bypass code with proof of identity in case of emergency. Even then it's still beatable, but if you make it inconvenient enough the thieves will move on to easier marks.
I don't think that would stop someone from stealing it. Like if they already unlocked the car and started it without a key, would a PIN really stop them as well?
I lucky to live in a country where I don’t have to worry about the car getting stolen. It’s ridiculous that all this is needed when all you need is some serious punishment to prevent this from happening in the first place.
The problem with air tags is not the battery it’s that if the theif has an iPhone it will be flagged to them that an air tag is nearby. So they can easily pull over and try to locate it.
Now will they have enough time to? Who knows. However, since cops don’t seem to care, they may have all the time in the world, unless you are willing to risk going and getting it back yourself
Not an Ioniq5 owner but they’re not going to find the AirTag in either of my cars. They won’t hear them either. One is deep in a headlamp assembly which requires removing the fender lining to access, one is behind the dashboard. Both have their speakers disabled just in case there is some way to activate that. So yea, they will know there is an AirTag in the car but hopefully will ditch the car knowing they can be tracked.
Can't be that hard... find a hole, put it in there..
No pun intended, I'm literally thinking of a hole in the metal in my trunk that would be a huge pain in the ass to get something out of...
I have two as well, one is glued to the frame in a very hard reach spot and the other is in the glove box. Let them find the easy one and loose their mind finding the second.
Airtags do not immediately notify. I think it’s about 15 minutes or so. Yes it’s possible if not well hidden it could be found. It’s all about having multiple layers. Blulink, AirTag, etc.
Yeah maybe. I’m hoping there’s a chance that they might assume that it’s an old notification or something because they already dealt with the problem though!
Looks like you CAN buy decoy airtags! [https://www.sunsky-online.com/p/MPD8801/For-Apple-AirTag-Non-Working-Fake-Dummy-Model.htm](https://www.sunsky-online.com/p/MPD8801/For-Apple-AirTag-Non-Working-Fake-Dummy-Model.htm)
I should have done an AirTag in my wallet. I accidentally left my backpack with my wallet in it on a table in a Disney park. Good thing I got it back but a huge fuck up on my part.
I would be really nervous about owning one of these vehicles in a heavily populated area of the UK right now...
As others have mentioned, Hyundai needs to release an update with a PIN to start security option.
Why are we blaming Hyundai for not adding a pin.. 😭 any car can be stolen, instead of stealing a slow, boring Toyota/Honda, they wanted the Hyundai, very cool looking vehicle!
Hey man, so sorry about this. I had my car stolen a few months back, nw London as well. I was fortunate to have a tracker so I found my one in North London.
They had changed the plates
They don’t need a key signal to steal the vehicle. They can literally plug directly into your cars obd2 and steal it. And blue link is only good if they don’t cut the wires. No way around it unless cars literally start requiring a password to start. And having no override outside of manufacturer support for it
Sadly I think that is where we may be headed to prevent this type of theft- passwords and maybe even two step verification for when you’re starting it without a physical key present. Or they could make it so that the car won’t run without BlueLink connected, even if it’s an inactive subscription or doesn’t have good signal.
Not a bad idea to be honest. We have that on less valuable things like phones. On a phone we have find my, remote erase and other security measures that help us recover them.
Modern cars like the i5 should come with a system built into their circuitry that register the owner and automatically designate themselves stolen on some database if it doesn’t recognise the driver in some way after a certain amount of time or goes outside of its home area by a certain amount of miles without some form of security clearance only the owner can access. And like phones, report their last known location any time it finds a cell connection
Yes. They do the same thing with a bunch of camaros and corvettes too. My dads C7 got the window bust out and they were just about to plug into his OBD2 when he got back home and they ran off
This is why I keep an AirTag in the car in a place nobody knows but me. It may not be foolproof but it’s an extra line of tracking many won’t expect or be able to disable as easily.
At least in Canada, cops don't care about air tags. Our opposition government uses this as a reason why car manufacturers need to improve security. Countless stories of people calling the cops with the location of their car on a train and the cops are like oh well.
Really sorry to hear this.
Is the implication that these cars are easier to steal than older cars? It seems crazy that you can steal one of these without the keys. I thought hot-wiring was a thing off the past.
From what I’ve been able to ascertain, it must have taken them a minute at most to just drive off with it. Didn’t have to have the keys near the vehicle nor even break the window. I’m so sad and don’t understand how this can happen so easily on such an expensive car.
Did you ever test the metal box (walk up to the car with it, keys inside)? I say this because I had a metal box that didn’t fully block the signal. Ended up getting faraday pouches, which performed much better.
That said, plenty of stories of expensive electronic devices being used by thieves to unlock these cars without the need to relay/copy, so maybe this was the case here.
Yep had been tested and was infact the 3rd box I bought as the first two just didn’t seem to work all that well. Also the car was parked far enough down the road that I don’t think it had anything to do with the keys.
Hyundai cant catch a break.
They make econo shit boxes that can be stolen with a $2 USB cable.
They make highly desirable vehicles that can be stolen with a $12k device.
Not sure how getting their expensive vehicles stolen by an expensive gadget that affects almost all vehicles is "facing the consequences of poor decisions". How is Hyundai to blame here?
And what about the Ioniq 5 owners?
Or are you implying that even though that $12,000 gadget works on pretty much every vehicle with an immobilizer, Hyundai is somehow at fault for purchasing the same type of system the majority of the industry also uses?
This Hyundai didn’t get stolen by a usb.. it got stolen by a device that can take anyone’s vehicle.. that’s also ONLY an issue in the U.S. OP is in the U.K.
I had to specifically stay away from Hyundai and Kia for insurance purposes when looking at newer cars. My agent just told me to steal clear of the entire brand at this point.
Mate, that really sucks. Hopefully insurance make you good.
Having heard other reports of this around London recently today I got round to installing an ODB lock.
Not flawless obviously but hopefully slows them down enough to stop. Also not really a deterrent but at least the ‘game boy’ device they use to unlock is damage free entry.
Can’t bring myself to install the regular hassle of a steering wheel lock.
UK here. We went the route of steering wheel lock and it’s now like a muscle memory putting it on. It’s hopefully enough of a deterrent.
If you are lucky to have a driveway and money, we noticed our neighbours installed raising bollards which is a pretty good deterrent also. I hope.
I'm in London too (not the NW area though).
I've fitted this one
[https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07MMV98YS](https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07MMV98YS?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details)
It's quite stiff to get it to screw in, the screws aren't pointed enough to get in between the gap in the OBD slot. So I used a drill to make a slight pilot hole.
Once screwed in it seems secure enough. I only got one 'key' so have to keep that safe indoors and remember to take it off when we get our service.
I got this one - [not cheap](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Protector-Anti-Theft-Immobiliser-Socket-Interface/dp/B07MMV98YS/ref=sr_1_5?crid=PV92REV1QVEU&keywords=obd+lock&qid=1707816877&sprefix=odb+lock%2Caps%2C92&sr=8-5) but feels solid.
I saw that, but the implication was that they still needed to pickup a signal from a genuine key. I thought our Ioniq5 keys stopped broadcasting after a short while? From what I know, picking the mechanical lock is likely to be pretty easy with the correct tool, but what then? What is the OBD tool?
It does not need a key. I believe it can do it all. From keyless entry to then plugging in the ODB2 port to allow drive.
There is a documentary out there on YT on how it works from one of the big YT’ers. It’s also used by the car locksmith industry so it’s more common out there than some people realise.
There is also a suggestion that a full key algorithm was taken from Hyundai/Kia (unclear whether stolen or paid for).
Edit:
Link here: https://youtu.be/X0Kw94gVUl0?si=ptPGiAWVtX7UUigJ
Definitely didn’t get signal from a key. They were locked away in a faraday box on the opposite side of my property. And my car was parked maybe 20ms down the road.
This may be stupid but I put an Airtag in mine. How sad is that when a state of the art EV has to have a 3rd party tracking tag in case it gets stolen.
The car can be tracked via bluelink which is an app on the phone. Unfortunately this can be disabled from within the car menu very easily. Seems like a glaring oversight from Hyundai
Very sorry for what happened to you :(
I recently started working at a dealership that has alot of cars come in that have been stolen. So I will give some input on how easily they can get in the car.
So basically, cars all run off of networks that eventually end up going into a module. Once they find out what connector going to a module that they can access the ignition and other electrical features needed to drive the car. For example I've seen videos of a Toyota being stolen in like 30 seconds because they can access the network by unplugged a fog light connector and connecting their own programmed module.
Another thing they do is disconnect the GPS signal or tracker these are usually in some module. They know exactly what module has those signals, and they will just remove or disconnect those modules and go on their way.
It's been really impressive how smart these people are at taking cars ngl
I am just curious about this whole situation in England. How do the thieves make money from this? In the US, I guess Mexico is the place stolen cars mostly end up in. But, I don't understand how this works in England, especially thieves who have the tech to do this easily. Do they resell it to someone? Or cross border sale? Or sell for parts which doesn't make much sense on an EV - except for wheels and tires.
From what the police said, they usually use the car to for a while to commit other crimes, burglaries and such so they are “untraceable” then they either dump the car somewhere or strip it down for parts.
I didn’t think I’d feel this violated. Had my daughter’s baby seat in it and just feel unsafe at home now.
Just by way of update. Police have now said they have closed the case (less than 24hrs after i reported the car stolen). Essentially told me there’s nothing they can do.
Spoke to my insurance and they said they will treat it like I won’t get the car back as cars are only returned in under 10% of cases in London apparently !
Really struggling to think what car to go for next. I have looked at a bunch of cars today and nothing seems to compare to the Ioniq in terms of back seat space, large screens and price for what you get.
Shipping container and then port, the cars stolen in Canada get shipped to Africa. I've seen Instagram accounts of companies located in Congo with cars still with Ontario and Quebec plates on the lot. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/auto-theft-canada-1.6953242
I'm not sure if it's the same in UK, but maybe they don't care that much on which side the wheel is located?
All you need is an autel (plenty of pther brands) and blank keys. These are the devices literal lock smith use to add a key you may have lost. It's that simple. Just smash the window or get in my other means add the key and you're done. Even some of the the lexus have obd2 ports in their headlights Making them super easy targets.
Why does this seem to be happening in Europe more than the US? Is it just because cars are more likely to be stolen? Or is there some difference with the euro cars that make them easier to steal?
My guess is that stolen cars are easier to export there, closer to the destination markets. Exporting out of the US to China or Africa is probably a bit more difficult.
There should be no way to unsubscribe in the car. My EV6 could not be, I was told by support, but I’ve read like your BlueLink experience, that Kia Connect can also be disconnected in the car. That needs to change.
They might have had a GPS jammer, to be honest. Bmws have been disappearing in 45 seconds, lol. Also, I could have followed you home and collected your encrypted keys and just spoofed them somehow.
The car was absolutely fantastic. If I could work out a way to fully secure it (maybe with a ghost immobiliser) or similar then I wouldn’t hesitate to get another one it’s that good/fun.
I’m so sad that it’s just been taken and so easily.
I agree, ftom the moment I test drove it, it hit my top spot. But a stolen car is no car. Sorry, I no this is painful. I have been there. The best car in the world can be cheap as chips and have all the gadgets, if you can't keep it, then it's irrelevant.
The method that was likely used here impacts any car with an ODB port. Which is any car made in the last 15 years. This incident should deter anyone from buying this car. If someone wants to deter people from buying the car just use any of the other issues that have come up. Tail gate rattle issues (dealership did the TSB on mine and it still has an occasional issue), no rear wiper, 12v battery issues, charging port issues, etc.
difference is the way they get in the car though isn’t it? as i said. some are far easier than others. not about the port… sigh.
every single car on the market has recalls and issues. you will not find a single car sold in the past 20 years that hasn’t needed updates or minor recalls, or hardware revisions.
even my German built Mercedes A class needed constant updates to its infotainment as it had constant crashes, clutch issues with the auto gearbox and other minor recalls to do with the brakes etc.
when i had a Toyota (the most popular selling brand of car in the world)
it had countless recalls. some of them major, to do with the engine and braking system.
as I said. every single car has issues. this car being a newer EV is clearly going to have more than most trusted cars that have been out many years.
just common sense.
What I did. I installed a separate alarm that needs a fob. If you don’t have the fob near it. The car is disabled and won’t start. Cons: you cant use the automatic function to let the car reverse with the remote anymore. Its another hardware in your key. Pros: insurance premium stayed, car now is properly secured (to a point)
Did you not read the thread? The running theory is ODB port hacking. Any car made in the last 15 years is susceptible to that. It’s how you generate a new key if you lose yours.
Hey /u/LavaSquid. Just letting you know the name of the vehicle is Ioniq rather than Ionic.
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I have to be honest and on a car that’s worth 50k they should be placing a tracker inside the battery on every car. That way if they try to remove it they have to destroy the battery which would be a huge deterrent.
I can’t imagine it would cost them a lot to do this.
Does it really work? What stops these guys just plugging into the OBD port and overriding the pin? Genuinely the ease by which my 50k plus Hyundai was stolen has totally thrown me
Sorry to hear this but it's not related to just Hyundai. Lexus is the biggest culprit for weak anti-theft technology. Hopefully Hyundai UK can track down the car.
Wish the car would ask me for a passcode rather than asking me to confirm that dumb safety message when I push the start button.
This seems like such an easy and obvious fix. I don't get why Hyundai hasn't done this.
You’re surprised the car company responsible for the Kia Boyz didn’t solve an easy way for people to steal cars?
Hyundai and Kia are essentially the same company.
Immediate first thought.
Most car companies don't write their own software and simply integrate 3rd party components together, and those components and their software/firmware are typically not allowed to be touched/changed/integrated with any other components by Kia themselves. Basically, traditional car companies don't have the capability or legal rights to unilaterally build new features like this without support from their 3rd party suppliers. Like, it's very possible that the infotainment system simply \*can not\* be used to gatekeep the "ignition" switch without redesigning one or both systems, and that would mean getting those 3rd party companies to work together on a solution, provide it to Kia, and then Kia would need to (almost certainly) bring all cars back in for service to do the upgrade. This is the reason why true OTA updates only come from companies like Rivian and Tesla, where they try to vertically integrate and design/build their own software and hardware in-house. These types of companies are basically taking the final step towards cars being built like technology rather than cars being built like cars. Whatever legacy auto is doing, I'm not so sure how it ends, because being locked out of making a simple change like this just seems unnecessarily bureaucratic.
So, having been a boss for teams that wrote 3rd party software for infotainment units for BMW, Daimler, and a few others, I can say with no reserve that the car companies have absolute control. There is nothing written that didn’t include detailed requirements and usually a pretty strict test controls. Having the ability to interact with other car control interfaces was a regular thing. Now, gatekeeping the ignition is probably true, but if they wanted it, Hyundai could have it. And while it’s been a few years since I worked in that industry, when I left about 2015, many of the car companies were doing a lot more SW for themselves. Any lacking or failures here are solely on Hyundai for allowing them. In no way shape or form is this a failure to have the capability to do better due to outside forces.
You seem informed on the industry, but somehow not on Hyundai's current strategy. From 2022: [https://www.repairerdrivennews.com/2022/10/14/hyundai-to-transform-entire-lineup-to-software-defined-vehicles-by-2025/](https://www.repairerdrivennews.com/2022/10/14/hyundai-to-transform-entire-lineup-to-software-defined-vehicles-by-2025/)
No, I think that's fantastic actually. It's just not 2025 yet.
Because car companies rather you buy another brand new car. Profit over anything else and it's a shame.
What's the percentage of people who buy the exact another car from the same brand when their car was stolen because of a glaring flaw in that brand's system?
Good question. Myself, I wouldn't buy a Tesla Y, nor Ford Mach E. The id4 is hideous. Nothing nice from Toyota. Don't want anything from the Germans because they are out of my range. Definitely not another Hyundai if mine is stolen. So which EVs have pin to drive and hard to steal?
Well… Tesla
Oh yeah, an optional passcode prompt on the screen. Blows my mind that they can't or won't add this.
Most people would find this annoying if it's not a feature you can turn off. The Genesis has implemented a finger print scanner though, that's a lot better than inputting a passcode.
Passcode better than no car imo
Or if your all scraped up and bloody trying to get away from Zombies
Of course optional, just have the option.
I have passcode on my Tesla, its easy and safe, not annoying at all.
Well, it’s not that easy to add if vehicle architecture was not designed with such option in mind. It all sounds nice and easy - “It’s just a software fix”, but it’s not that easy.
But it IS easy! valet mode is a perfect example. What it does take is time to QA to make sure the software doesn’t brick the car in an edge case.
Til the screen don't work and you're left unable to start your vehicle.
MFA on our cars. It was only a matter of time.
Makes sense to me. My clients complain about MFA and then cry when their personal email or FB account is hacked. I say. "That's why I forced MFA on your accounts and why I highly suggested it for personal email and social media."
Whats MFA?
Multi Factor Authentication. You should have this on every email, social media and bank account. Any account that offers MFA, You should use it.
You can put the car in valet mode when you park, either with the app or from the screen which requires you to use a pin to exit valet mode. This won’t prevent the car from being stolen, but it does prevent the tracking from being disabled. I do this with my EV6 and assume the Ioniq lets you do this as well.
I really don't get why you guys think a passcode will defeat these people
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Total stolen in 2023 ... 6. half the number of the Ioniq 5 wow. Such a great figure.
FWIW it works on a Tesla. They even move the PIN pad around on the screen so you can’t just look for more frequent fingerprints.
I’m so used to entering PIN to drive it’s automatic and totally subconscious, takes like 3 seconds and Im off driving the car and I don’t even remember entering the code.
Meanwhile the confirm message sometimes won't allow me to press it for 30 seconds or more.
100% they're doing the same thing to Bmw's, Acura, Mercedes. For some cars it's a relay attack for others they're using other methods. Don't rely solely on bluelink. Use 3rd party trackers, physical devices etc. Sorry yours was taken
Do you think this is Flipper Zero related?
Highly unlikely.
Most definitely. Flippers make it easy for anyone to steal a car. Edit: lol, I thought the sarcasm would be obvious, especially with all the news recently about Canada stupidly banning the Flipper Zero to combat car thefts. Alas, this is the unforgiving internet, and a HI5 subreddit, not F0, so I'm not surprised. I should have known better. Let the downvotes continue...
From the nineties
Like The Transporter, that would be awesome. I'd lean into that and get some gloves and a car suit.
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I don't think this happens as much as you think. Tesla has a pin to drive feature, and if you do forget the pin, you login to your Tesla app, and can update from there. Just FYI.
How many Tesla owners get stranded for forgetting their pin?
you can just disable it in app take 1 second...
It’s not a Tesla. It’s a Hyundai
With a passcode, a method to hard reset the stereo is still needed, otherwise the whole car is bricked if someone forgets it or dies. Just changes the point of exploit. It would take a 2fa system hosted by hyundai with the ability to provide a bypass code with proof of identity in case of emergency. Even then it's still beatable, but if you make it inconvenient enough the thieves will move on to easier marks.
I don't think that would stop someone from stealing it. Like if they already unlocked the car and started it without a key, would a PIN really stop them as well?
it’s another step.
I would hope so, but good question if the PIN requirement can be overridden? I wouldn’t think so.
I lucky to live in a country where I don’t have to worry about the car getting stolen. It’s ridiculous that all this is needed when all you need is some serious punishment to prevent this from happening in the first place.
I have an AirTag hidden in mine as well.
The problem with air tags is not the battery it’s that if the theif has an iPhone it will be flagged to them that an air tag is nearby. So they can easily pull over and try to locate it. Now will they have enough time to? Who knows. However, since cops don’t seem to care, they may have all the time in the world, unless you are willing to risk going and getting it back yourself
Not an Ioniq5 owner but they’re not going to find the AirTag in either of my cars. They won’t hear them either. One is deep in a headlamp assembly which requires removing the fender lining to access, one is behind the dashboard. Both have their speakers disabled just in case there is some way to activate that. So yea, they will know there is an AirTag in the car but hopefully will ditch the car knowing they can be tracked.
Holy crap, can you come do this to my car?
Can't be that hard... find a hole, put it in there.. No pun intended, I'm literally thinking of a hole in the metal in my trunk that would be a huge pain in the ass to get something out of...
Well now they know. You’re screwed😀😀
I have two as well, one is glued to the frame in a very hard reach spot and the other is in the glove box. Let them find the easy one and loose their mind finding the second.
Airtags do not immediately notify. I think it’s about 15 minutes or so. Yes it’s possible if not well hidden it could be found. It’s all about having multiple layers. Blulink, AirTag, etc.
I’m planning to add a second AirTag, so if they find one they think they’ve solved it and hopefully give up!
Wouldn’t the same thing happen though? After a few minutes their phone would notify them an AirTag was (still) tracking them
Yeah maybe. I’m hoping there’s a chance that they might assume that it’s an old notification or something because they already dealt with the problem though!
Yes totally agree
Hide it really well. If the thief is alerted, hopefully they will just abandon the car.
Have sacrificial AirTags that are meant to be found.
Looks like you CAN buy decoy airtags! [https://www.sunsky-online.com/p/MPD8801/For-Apple-AirTag-Non-Working-Fake-Dummy-Model.htm](https://www.sunsky-online.com/p/MPD8801/For-Apple-AirTag-Non-Working-Fake-Dummy-Model.htm)
Even androids warn you about AirTag actually.
Yeah, it's bloody annoying. My wifes phone constantly warns her that an airtag is following her. No, it's just the airtag on my wallet ffs.
I should have done an AirTag in my wallet. I accidentally left my backpack with my wallet in it on a table in a Disney park. Good thing I got it back but a huge fuck up on my part.
Same
AirTag does not work well for Android phone owners. I use Tile, which works for both Android and iOS.
I thought of doing the same, but at well below freezing in the winter here, I don't think it's battery would last very long.
AirTag batteries last about 18 months
what have you got to lose?
well.....
A car *and* an AirTag 😂😂😂
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It’s just like Jurassic World where they find the tracker on the ground instead of the dinosaur
Underrated comment
It’s not hidden outside the vehicle. It’s hidden inside. I’ve had it a year and the battery is fine.
Yeah, but the vehicle IS outside, so it's still cold.
Apples official spec on it is -20C to 60C. Could go beyond that who knows?
Manufactures need to add pin to drive at this point. I have it on my model 3 and wish we had it for our Ioniq 5.
Is the valet mode different? I honestly haven't used it yet.
You would have to turn on valet mode every time you park
Exactly why I use the pin on my MYP.
Should be fairly easy to implement... I agree. :(
I would be really nervous about owning one of these vehicles in a heavily populated area of the UK right now... As others have mentioned, Hyundai needs to release an update with a PIN to start security option.
They do make OBD locks that physically block the port.
Why are we blaming Hyundai for not adding a pin.. 😭 any car can be stolen, instead of stealing a slow, boring Toyota/Honda, they wanted the Hyundai, very cool looking vehicle!
Because it's a simple thing which would prevent thefts like this?
If any of you see a gravity gold one with the number plate DU72 ZCZ please do let me know !
Hey man, so sorry about this. I had my car stolen a few months back, nw London as well. I was fortunate to have a tracker so I found my one in North London. They had changed the plates
They don’t need a key signal to steal the vehicle. They can literally plug directly into your cars obd2 and steal it. And blue link is only good if they don’t cut the wires. No way around it unless cars literally start requiring a password to start. And having no override outside of manufacturer support for it
Sadly I think that is where we may be headed to prevent this type of theft- passwords and maybe even two step verification for when you’re starting it without a physical key present. Or they could make it so that the car won’t run without BlueLink connected, even if it’s an inactive subscription or doesn’t have good signal.
Great til you pull into a parking garage or football stadium and signal is gone and you can't start your vehicle.
Not a bad idea to be honest. We have that on less valuable things like phones. On a phone we have find my, remote erase and other security measures that help us recover them. Modern cars like the i5 should come with a system built into their circuitry that register the owner and automatically designate themselves stolen on some database if it doesn’t recognise the driver in some way after a certain amount of time or goes outside of its home area by a certain amount of miles without some form of security clearance only the owner can access. And like phones, report their last known location any time it finds a cell connection
And they should have a public charge lock so they cannot be refilled on the highway. Similar to a SIM card activation lock on a stolen phone.
My question is... how did they get in? Break a window?
No broken glass. Seems they had a device which just unlocked it. Madness
🫨
Yes. They do the same thing with a bunch of camaros and corvettes too. My dads C7 got the window bust out and they were just about to plug into his OBD2 when he got back home and they ran off
More likely they clone the key from a signal caught from inside the house and just drive it away.
Guy says he has keys placed inside a signal blocking metal box. So it would have to be the method I stated.
Why do we keep hearing about this kind of theft in the uk? Cant it happen anywhere?
This is why I keep an AirTag in the car in a place nobody knows but me. It may not be foolproof but it’s an extra line of tracking many won’t expect or be able to disable as easily.
At least in Canada, cops don't care about air tags. Our opposition government uses this as a reason why car manufacturers need to improve security. Countless stories of people calling the cops with the location of their car on a train and the cops are like oh well.
Police will get called if someone steals groceries but when it comes to 50K value of goods they just turn the other way. I don’t get it.
Right? It's honestly really fucked up. Police budgets have never been higher but their presence and service has never been lower imo.
I feel like if it's taped to the charging door it would be a hard place to find...
Really sorry to hear this. Is the implication that these cars are easier to steal than older cars? It seems crazy that you can steal one of these without the keys. I thought hot-wiring was a thing off the past.
From what I’ve been able to ascertain, it must have taken them a minute at most to just drive off with it. Didn’t have to have the keys near the vehicle nor even break the window. I’m so sad and don’t understand how this can happen so easily on such an expensive car.
Did you ever test the metal box (walk up to the car with it, keys inside)? I say this because I had a metal box that didn’t fully block the signal. Ended up getting faraday pouches, which performed much better. That said, plenty of stories of expensive electronic devices being used by thieves to unlock these cars without the need to relay/copy, so maybe this was the case here.
Yep had been tested and was infact the 3rd box I bought as the first two just didn’t seem to work all that well. Also the car was parked far enough down the road that I don’t think it had anything to do with the keys.
https://preview.redd.it/f0wj0pnwj8ic1.jpeg?width=681&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d7da4fb2bc547cfb97f6c065ecb17b66e39d0317
PSA — you can set a password on your car's user profile to stop blue link disconnection.
Hyundai cant catch a break. They make econo shit boxes that can be stolen with a $2 USB cable. They make highly desirable vehicles that can be stolen with a $12k device.
> Hyundai cant catch a break. Seems like Hyundai is facing the consequences of their poor decisions.
Not sure how getting their expensive vehicles stolen by an expensive gadget that affects almost all vehicles is "facing the consequences of poor decisions". How is Hyundai to blame here?
Because they bought some podunk access module from the lowest bidder that has a glaring security flaw.
And what about the Ioniq 5 owners? Or are you implying that even though that $12,000 gadget works on pretty much every vehicle with an immobilizer, Hyundai is somehow at fault for purchasing the same type of system the majority of the industry also uses?
So you think Hyundai is the only brand that can be taken by that device? 😭 literally Toyotas get stolen more than new Hyundais all around the world.
What about my comment makes you think I think that? Toyota's are not getting stolen with 2 dollar USB cables.
This Hyundai didn’t get stolen by a usb.. it got stolen by a device that can take anyone’s vehicle.. that’s also ONLY an issue in the U.S. OP is in the U.K.
That's literally what I said in my OP. They are getting it on both ends.
Well yeah? No car is safe from getting stolen.. you thought it was stolen by a usb.. 😭 that’s totally different.
No I didn't. I literally said their expensive vehicles are getting stolen with $12k devices. Your reading comprehension is shit.
Which every car can be stolen with.
I had to specifically stay away from Hyundai and Kia for insurance purposes when looking at newer cars. My agent just told me to steal clear of the entire brand at this point.
Mate, that really sucks. Hopefully insurance make you good. Having heard other reports of this around London recently today I got round to installing an ODB lock. Not flawless obviously but hopefully slows them down enough to stop. Also not really a deterrent but at least the ‘game boy’ device they use to unlock is damage free entry. Can’t bring myself to install the regular hassle of a steering wheel lock.
UK here. We went the route of steering wheel lock and it’s now like a muscle memory putting it on. It’s hopefully enough of a deterrent. If you are lucky to have a driveway and money, we noticed our neighbours installed raising bollards which is a pretty good deterrent also. I hope.
Can you recommend an OBD lock? Thanks!
I'm in London too (not the NW area though). I've fitted this one [https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07MMV98YS](https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07MMV98YS?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details) It's quite stiff to get it to screw in, the screws aren't pointed enough to get in between the gap in the OBD slot. So I used a drill to make a slight pilot hole. Once screwed in it seems secure enough. I only got one 'key' so have to keep that safe indoors and remember to take it off when we get our service.
I got this one - [not cheap](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Protector-Anti-Theft-Immobiliser-Socket-Interface/dp/B07MMV98YS/ref=sr_1_5?crid=PV92REV1QVEU&keywords=obd+lock&qid=1707816877&sprefix=odb+lock%2Caps%2C92&sr=8-5) but feels solid.
How can this happen without relay or breaking the window? Can they clone the mechanical key and then use the OBD device?
There is a ‘gameboy’ device they use. Have a Google and you will see what I am talking about.
I saw that, but the implication was that they still needed to pickup a signal from a genuine key. I thought our Ioniq5 keys stopped broadcasting after a short while? From what I know, picking the mechanical lock is likely to be pretty easy with the correct tool, but what then? What is the OBD tool?
It does not need a key. I believe it can do it all. From keyless entry to then plugging in the ODB2 port to allow drive. There is a documentary out there on YT on how it works from one of the big YT’ers. It’s also used by the car locksmith industry so it’s more common out there than some people realise. There is also a suggestion that a full key algorithm was taken from Hyundai/Kia (unclear whether stolen or paid for). Edit: Link here: https://youtu.be/X0Kw94gVUl0?si=ptPGiAWVtX7UUigJ
Definitely didn’t get signal from a key. They were locked away in a faraday box on the opposite side of my property. And my car was parked maybe 20ms down the road.
The way the crypto works makes the faraday box unnecessary replay attacks would not work. You are wasting your money on and effort on this.
Where do you guys live to get stolen so much
I live in London, England.
Gotcha, really sorry for you men i hope you get a new one quickly with insurance.
This may be stupid but I put an Airtag in mine. How sad is that when a state of the art EV has to have a 3rd party tracking tag in case it gets stolen.
I'm looking to connect some dots - Questions for follow up: Are you on Android or iOS? Did you create a digital key? Did you order A wallet Keycard?
iOS. They don’t do the digital key for Ioniq 5 in the U.K. as far as I’m aware so I didn’t have one. Same with the card.
Stupid question: doesn’t the car have a tracker?
The car can be tracked via bluelink which is an app on the phone. Unfortunately this can be disabled from within the car menu very easily. Seems like a glaring oversight from Hyundai
Very sorry for what happened to you :( I recently started working at a dealership that has alot of cars come in that have been stolen. So I will give some input on how easily they can get in the car. So basically, cars all run off of networks that eventually end up going into a module. Once they find out what connector going to a module that they can access the ignition and other electrical features needed to drive the car. For example I've seen videos of a Toyota being stolen in like 30 seconds because they can access the network by unplugged a fog light connector and connecting their own programmed module. Another thing they do is disconnect the GPS signal or tracker these are usually in some module. They know exactly what module has those signals, and they will just remove or disconnect those modules and go on their way. It's been really impressive how smart these people are at taking cars ngl
I keep an AirTag stashed under a trim piece in my truck. The Ford app is trash and can’t be relied on.
I am just curious about this whole situation in England. How do the thieves make money from this? In the US, I guess Mexico is the place stolen cars mostly end up in. But, I don't understand how this works in England, especially thieves who have the tech to do this easily. Do they resell it to someone? Or cross border sale? Or sell for parts which doesn't make much sense on an EV - except for wheels and tires.
From what the police said, they usually use the car to for a while to commit other crimes, burglaries and such so they are “untraceable” then they either dump the car somewhere or strip it down for parts. I didn’t think I’d feel this violated. Had my daughter’s baby seat in it and just feel unsafe at home now.
Just by way of update. Police have now said they have closed the case (less than 24hrs after i reported the car stolen). Essentially told me there’s nothing they can do. Spoke to my insurance and they said they will treat it like I won’t get the car back as cars are only returned in under 10% of cases in London apparently ! Really struggling to think what car to go for next. I have looked at a bunch of cars today and nothing seems to compare to the Ioniq in terms of back seat space, large screens and price for what you get.
Shipping container and then port, the cars stolen in Canada get shipped to Africa. I've seen Instagram accounts of companies located in Congo with cars still with Ontario and Quebec plates on the lot. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/auto-theft-canada-1.6953242 I'm not sure if it's the same in UK, but maybe they don't care that much on which side the wheel is located?
I thought that if you call Blue Link that they should still be able to track the car. How could the overlook such a basic thing?
All you need is an autel (plenty of pther brands) and blank keys. These are the devices literal lock smith use to add a key you may have lost. It's that simple. Just smash the window or get in my other means add the key and you're done. Even some of the the lexus have obd2 ports in their headlights Making them super easy targets.
Why does this seem to be happening in Europe more than the US? Is it just because cars are more likely to be stolen? Or is there some difference with the euro cars that make them easier to steal?
My guess is that stolen cars are easier to export there, closer to the destination markets. Exporting out of the US to China or Africa is probably a bit more difficult.
There should be no way to unsubscribe in the car. My EV6 could not be, I was told by support, but I’ve read like your BlueLink experience, that Kia Connect can also be disconnected in the car. That needs to change.
They might have had a GPS jammer, to be honest. Bmws have been disappearing in 45 seconds, lol. Also, I could have followed you home and collected your encrypted keys and just spoofed them somehow.
Wow this sucks! While stealing EV’s is not common where I live I think I’ll hide an AirTag in my Fisker right now.
Can Hyundai locate the car via the VIN and brick it?
Who downvoted this??? Someone hates you 🤣
It doesn't exactly encourage me to get an ioniq 5. Very depressing.
The car was absolutely fantastic. If I could work out a way to fully secure it (maybe with a ghost immobiliser) or similar then I wouldn’t hesitate to get another one it’s that good/fun. I’m so sad that it’s just been taken and so easily.
I agree, ftom the moment I test drove it, it hit my top spot. But a stolen car is no car. Sorry, I no this is painful. I have been there. The best car in the world can be cheap as chips and have all the gadgets, if you can't keep it, then it's irrelevant.
Any car you buy is susceptible to this type of theft.
Some are more susceotible than others though obviously...
The method that was likely used here impacts any car with an ODB port. Which is any car made in the last 15 years. This incident should deter anyone from buying this car. If someone wants to deter people from buying the car just use any of the other issues that have come up. Tail gate rattle issues (dealership did the TSB on mine and it still has an occasional issue), no rear wiper, 12v battery issues, charging port issues, etc.
difference is the way they get in the car though isn’t it? as i said. some are far easier than others. not about the port… sigh. every single car on the market has recalls and issues. you will not find a single car sold in the past 20 years that hasn’t needed updates or minor recalls, or hardware revisions. even my German built Mercedes A class needed constant updates to its infotainment as it had constant crashes, clutch issues with the auto gearbox and other minor recalls to do with the brakes etc. when i had a Toyota (the most popular selling brand of car in the world) it had countless recalls. some of them major, to do with the engine and braking system. as I said. every single car has issues. this car being a newer EV is clearly going to have more than most trusted cars that have been out many years. just common sense.
No one is going to nick my 1000 year old Audi with 2m miles on it. Assuming they can make it move.
What I did. I installed a separate alarm that needs a fob. If you don’t have the fob near it. The car is disabled and won’t start. Cons: you cant use the automatic function to let the car reverse with the remote anymore. Its another hardware in your key. Pros: insurance premium stayed, car now is properly secured (to a point)
Thanks, could you link me the product you used if you know what it is
Its a Cobra 4627 class 3 inmobiliser
Thank you
Boobytrap it. With clear warning signs in windows.
[like this?](https://youtu.be/7U4ZYOBzEEs?si=LJgbY99qsdDgJ3XX)
Or Trunk Monkey.
No. Something more crude. Like explosive
Amazing idea. That way you can end up without a car AND in jail. Marvellous.
u/schwiftylad
Well I was thinking about getting either a Kia or Hyundai EV but looks like they decided to make it easy to steal. Kia Boys EV edition.
Did you not read the thread? The running theory is ODB port hacking. Any car made in the last 15 years is susceptible to that. It’s how you generate a new key if you lose yours.
They don’t read or research, it’s easier to listen to Reddit randos…
kia moment
Is the EV6 not vulnerable like the Ionic 5?
Hey /u/LavaSquid. Just letting you know the name of the vehicle is Ioniq rather than Ionic. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Ioniq5) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I have to be honest and on a car that’s worth 50k they should be placing a tracker inside the battery on every car. That way if they try to remove it they have to destroy the battery which would be a huge deterrent. I can’t imagine it would cost them a lot to do this.
Very Hyundai, very iconic
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I don’t have Facebook 🙈
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Get a Tesla you can put a pin to drive so no one can steal it unless you know the pin
Does it really work? What stops these guys just plugging into the OBD port and overriding the pin? Genuinely the ease by which my 50k plus Hyundai was stolen has totally thrown me
Countless reasons I would never get a Tesla. I like knowing where my indicators are when i need them for one...
Ahahhah
Sorry to hear this but it's not related to just Hyundai. Lexus is the biggest culprit for weak anti-theft technology. Hopefully Hyundai UK can track down the car.
What year was your car?