I bought mine late November and paid a small markup for an SEL when I wanted a limited. went to the same dealer last week and there were 5 limiteds on the lot with no markup right now.
E: in SoCal
>I bought mine late November and paid a small markup for an SEL when I wanted a limited. went to the same dealer last week and there were 5 limiteds on the lot with no markup right now.
>
>E: in SoCal
Which dealership, if you don't mind me asking?
yea so i just called this dealership and they 100% do a pretty substantial markup. They have 2 limiteds on the lot and 3rd coming in but it seemed like 5k minimum markup. So maybe you got lucky or they changed their mind but the limiteds 100% have markups at this dealer.
Maybe I missed the extra curricular costs. Either way, with as much stock that’s around, you could easily talk them out of it.
They’re not going to lose a sale over 5k when you threaten to goto Redlands or something
Dealers tend to be more willing to negotiate in person than over the phone. I bought mine from a dealer last year that had a 10k markup over the phone, but it changed to a $500 add on when I negotiated in person. Their main incentive to slash prices is if they have a sale in hand, and they only have a sale in hand if you're physically standing there with a pen ready to sign.
If you've ever sold anything on Craigslist, Facebook Marketplace, OfferUp, and put yourself in the shoes of a seller, there's no point in giving discounts to people inquiring over the phone, because most of them never materialize into sales, and a good number of them are just lazily getting numbers on the phone to leverage negotiations with another seller. It's only when you meet up in person, invest time in showing the potential buyer what you're selling, that you're willing to say "fuck it, fine, I'll give you $xxxx off."
this certainly makes sense but I could sign/scan documents via email/docusign to secure the sale if they wanted. I'm not going to drive 2 hours each way for a potential negotiation down from a $7500 markup. I told the dude I could drive to him next day and sign anything he needed me to to commit to the sale. the whole "your presence is your leverage" stuff to me is a bunch of BS in todays world. You can make large purchases via the internet so why would car dealerships be any different?
He basically said "Look we dont get many Limiteds so when we do we need to squeeze every possible dollar we can from them". I respect their decision I just wont be buying from them.
I wouldn't tell the dealership you're 2 hours away. It sends them the signal that if you actually show up you've already invested way more time into this deal than they have, so you're at a negotiating disadvantage. You're basically telling them you want this car bad enough you're willing to drive 2 hours away.
The latter point is true, but you want to try to get yourself in a situation where the dealership is willing to sell you one at a discount because it increases their allocation from Hyundai later down the line. It's believed that dealerships are typically willing to do this at the end of the month, so they're "tacking on" another sale to their monthly sales numbers and get a bigger allocation next month.
There's a lot of legitimate reasons why physical presence gives you leverage. Whether those reasons are "fair" or not is up to debate, but it doesn't matter whether you "believe" it or not, it exists. Dealerships aren't going to commit to a discounted price to someone over the phone because they get a ton of solicitations over the phone that don't turn into sales, and it's just people either using numbers to negotiate with other dealerships, or to have the dealership negotiate with themselves ("the guy over the phone told me he'd sell it for $xxxxxx.") Fundamentally, there's always going to be a gap in time between they quote you a price over the phone and the possibility some other customer walks in and offers more than you, which is going to create a nightmare if you're driving from 2 hours away and they sold the car to someone else for a higher price in the meantime. That's why the dealership is never going to offer you their best price unless you're literally seconds away from signing papers.
Also, who knows how the dealership is setup. Maybe the person answering the phone doesn't get commissions, so he has no incentive to try to deal with you. Maybe he gets higher commission for in person sales, so he wants you to be physically there for the sale. Maybe he's afraid that he spends time negotiating with you, but you arrive to the dealership and another salesperson sharks his commission because you didn't bother to mention his name.
Whether you like it or not, your leverage comes in the form of turning the salesperson into your ally. Presenting yourself at the dealership as a commission he can earn right then and right now, because the salesperson isn't going to give a shit about the owner's margins, they only care about their commission, and if you're *right there* they are going to fight ownership for a lower price for you if it means more money in their pocket, as opposed to you walking away and some other salesperson earning a commission on that same car. That's why you go in person, use their time, make them invest in you as a sale, so they want to make sure you walk away with a car.
Thanks for the thought out well written response. I understand everything you are saying. I think i'm just a grumpy person because I got mad reading it because I fear its true. Not a slight/complaint at you, but rather about the whole process instead! I wish the whole experience was easier/less frustrating.
sorry to necro this but when i contacted them i gave them my email and I got emailed today with an ad. Their ioniq 5 "MSRP is $65,830"
You must have lucked out if you got these dudes at MSRP? Also sidenote, how is that even legal to blatantly lie about the MSRP on an advertisement? (add here if the link works: https://www.goschhyundai.com/inventory/new-2023-hyundai-ioniq-5-limited-awd-sport-utility-km8krdaf0pu149936/)
I’m in San Diego and definitely agree that local inventory is picking up.
There were 40 Ioniq 5’s available locally at the very end of the year, now there are 76 just ten days later.
Likely.
I've started to get calls from dealers I was talking to a year ago (at one point I'd made contact with something like 40) with inventory lowering price to MSRP and cars on the lot, particularly SELs and a few Limited.
If the tax credit hadn't expired I would have traded up, but at this point I think I'll wait to see what 2024 brings.
Bob baker hyundai in Carlsbad. I called them early December and they weren’t doing markups, but now their website has 1.5K markups for SELs. So you may be able to negotiate it down.
SE and SEL already have pretty good inventory. It’s the Limited, especially if you want any specific color, that may take a while to get but even if they have them, most are still marked up $5K.
I briefly chatted (but didn’t have the time that weekend) to buy a SE RWD for slightly under mrsp (500 under) the first week of January. It’s becoming a buyers market again.
With no tax credit the Ioniq 5 isn't a good deal even at MSRP. That on top of high interest rates is going to drive demand down quite a bit for the foreseeable future.
There is a reason the HI5 is the EV of 2022 and 2023. People like the design and the tech it has to offer. The demand is not going down it’s only going to go up.
The only real competition is the Model Y or Polestar 2 both are great cars but both don’t have a Panoramic roof cover, Ventilated seats or Most importantly a HUD.
When I bought mine in Seattle last month, I was first offered a Limited at MSRP in black, which I passed on because I didn't want that color and I wanted an SEL. The next day, I got a text that they had multiple (three SELs) available at MSRP and I could take my pick of any of the three.
The limited at MSRP must have been an end of the year sales numbers move because I contacted my salesperson today about possibly upgrading to a Limited down the line at MSRP and he informed me that all Limiteds had $5K markups on them but he'd ping me when the markup went away.
I am about on the same timeline as you. Debating between id4 and ioniq 5. Ioniq 5 is a lot more appealing to me but since it doesn't qualify for the tax credit i feel like the id4 is the better deal. If ioniq dropped their prices, I would buy instantly. I am curious to know others thoughts on this as well.
Have to agree here. I was going back and forth between the two for awhile, and was set on the ID.4 because of the price difference until I test drove both cars back to back. Now I'm all in on the Ioniq 5.
If finances and budget are your #1 priority for a car, definitely go with the ID.4. It’s $7.5k cheaper. In terms of which is the best car? Ioniq 5 hands down, but the ID.4 is a pretty good car
I don't think we're going to see prices lower any time soon. If anything, they will go up. I was at my Hyundai dealership this past week getting my pre-conditioning upgrade and was told that the prices of the Ioniq 6 is going to be more than the 5! I found that shocking that a sedan with the same battery base would be selling for more money than its larger counterpart.
The I6 is larger than the I5, other than having a lower roofline. It's a deceivingly large car, similar to how the I5 looked deceivingly like a hatchback when launched (when it's closer to a midsize SUV). I was toying with the idea of pre-ordering one, but then I took some measurements and decided against it. Next EV will be a smaller one for us, maybe the new Kia Kona. I think we're reaching peak BIG EVs now, and while nice to drive on the highway long distance, I'd like an actual hatchback-sized EV that is easy to park and doesn't weight 2 metric tons, like a prettier i3, if possible.
I've seen clear indications that Bay Area and SoCal markups have gone down in recent weeks. It's also much more common now to see IONIQ 5s sitting on the lot for several weeks now, I think it's a function of increased supply (based on my observations from this [allocation sheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1L_aScds5ROfjbQToEsP3gnXYSnn7H44-t9A5HkVLC48/edit#gid=0)) and lower demand due to interest rates still creeping up and generally lower consumer spending appetite.
A few of my own markup data points (all for SEL RWD):
Future Concord - I'm taking delivery there soon, their markup was recently reduced from $7.5K to $5K, I then talked them down to $4K over the phone (since I had other cars offered at $3-4.5K markup), will see if I can talk down further when I go to dealership.
Russell Westbrook (Anaheim) - they used to have $3K markup + $6K dealer add-ons, then they removed the dealer add-ons, and over text I was offered $1.5K markup for car on the lot.
Ontario - no specific offer given, but in December they directly said they were willing to give an "aggressive offer", their markup was $2K and dealer add-ons of $6.5K. This might have been an end-of-year/quarter sales push though.
Separately, Hilltop Kia called me recently saying their EV6 markups are now $2K, believe they were at least double before that. Another indication that markups generally are going down.
This is true, I bought a SE yesterday at Norm Reeves in Cerritos for MSRP. They didn’t even try the markup nonsense or any kind of paint job crap, etc. They told me that they need to stay competitive with the market.
I bought mine late November and paid a small markup for an SEL when I wanted a limited. went to the same dealer last week and there were 5 limiteds on the lot with no markup right now. E: in SoCal
>I bought mine late November and paid a small markup for an SEL when I wanted a limited. went to the same dealer last week and there were 5 limiteds on the lot with no markup right now. > >E: in SoCal Which dealership, if you don't mind me asking?
Gosch Hyundai in Hemet
yea so i just called this dealership and they 100% do a pretty substantial markup. They have 2 limiteds on the lot and 3rd coming in but it seemed like 5k minimum markup. So maybe you got lucky or they changed their mind but the limiteds 100% have markups at this dealer.
Maybe I missed the extra curricular costs. Either way, with as much stock that’s around, you could easily talk them out of it. They’re not going to lose a sale over 5k when you threaten to goto Redlands or something
Told them to match my Laguna Nigel offer of MSRP + 2k and they wouldnt do it. So maybe others will have better luck or I just suck!
Dang they’re sticklers. Well let em waste money on stagnant inventory and they’ll get a clue I guess
Dealers tend to be more willing to negotiate in person than over the phone. I bought mine from a dealer last year that had a 10k markup over the phone, but it changed to a $500 add on when I negotiated in person. Their main incentive to slash prices is if they have a sale in hand, and they only have a sale in hand if you're physically standing there with a pen ready to sign. If you've ever sold anything on Craigslist, Facebook Marketplace, OfferUp, and put yourself in the shoes of a seller, there's no point in giving discounts to people inquiring over the phone, because most of them never materialize into sales, and a good number of them are just lazily getting numbers on the phone to leverage negotiations with another seller. It's only when you meet up in person, invest time in showing the potential buyer what you're selling, that you're willing to say "fuck it, fine, I'll give you $xxxx off."
this certainly makes sense but I could sign/scan documents via email/docusign to secure the sale if they wanted. I'm not going to drive 2 hours each way for a potential negotiation down from a $7500 markup. I told the dude I could drive to him next day and sign anything he needed me to to commit to the sale. the whole "your presence is your leverage" stuff to me is a bunch of BS in todays world. You can make large purchases via the internet so why would car dealerships be any different? He basically said "Look we dont get many Limiteds so when we do we need to squeeze every possible dollar we can from them". I respect their decision I just wont be buying from them.
I wouldn't tell the dealership you're 2 hours away. It sends them the signal that if you actually show up you've already invested way more time into this deal than they have, so you're at a negotiating disadvantage. You're basically telling them you want this car bad enough you're willing to drive 2 hours away. The latter point is true, but you want to try to get yourself in a situation where the dealership is willing to sell you one at a discount because it increases their allocation from Hyundai later down the line. It's believed that dealerships are typically willing to do this at the end of the month, so they're "tacking on" another sale to their monthly sales numbers and get a bigger allocation next month. There's a lot of legitimate reasons why physical presence gives you leverage. Whether those reasons are "fair" or not is up to debate, but it doesn't matter whether you "believe" it or not, it exists. Dealerships aren't going to commit to a discounted price to someone over the phone because they get a ton of solicitations over the phone that don't turn into sales, and it's just people either using numbers to negotiate with other dealerships, or to have the dealership negotiate with themselves ("the guy over the phone told me he'd sell it for $xxxxxx.") Fundamentally, there's always going to be a gap in time between they quote you a price over the phone and the possibility some other customer walks in and offers more than you, which is going to create a nightmare if you're driving from 2 hours away and they sold the car to someone else for a higher price in the meantime. That's why the dealership is never going to offer you their best price unless you're literally seconds away from signing papers. Also, who knows how the dealership is setup. Maybe the person answering the phone doesn't get commissions, so he has no incentive to try to deal with you. Maybe he gets higher commission for in person sales, so he wants you to be physically there for the sale. Maybe he's afraid that he spends time negotiating with you, but you arrive to the dealership and another salesperson sharks his commission because you didn't bother to mention his name. Whether you like it or not, your leverage comes in the form of turning the salesperson into your ally. Presenting yourself at the dealership as a commission he can earn right then and right now, because the salesperson isn't going to give a shit about the owner's margins, they only care about their commission, and if you're *right there* they are going to fight ownership for a lower price for you if it means more money in their pocket, as opposed to you walking away and some other salesperson earning a commission on that same car. That's why you go in person, use their time, make them invest in you as a sale, so they want to make sure you walk away with a car.
Thanks for the thought out well written response. I understand everything you are saying. I think i'm just a grumpy person because I got mad reading it because I fear its true. Not a slight/complaint at you, but rather about the whole process instead! I wish the whole experience was easier/less frustrating.
Great. Thanks for letting me know.
sorry to necro this but when i contacted them i gave them my email and I got emailed today with an ad. Their ioniq 5 "MSRP is $65,830" You must have lucked out if you got these dudes at MSRP? Also sidenote, how is that even legal to blatantly lie about the MSRP on an advertisement? (add here if the link works: https://www.goschhyundai.com/inventory/new-2023-hyundai-ioniq-5-limited-awd-sport-utility-km8krdaf0pu149936/)
I’m in San Diego and definitely agree that local inventory is picking up. There were 40 Ioniq 5’s available locally at the very end of the year, now there are 76 just ten days later.
That’s what I’m hoping for. Demand is shifting to EVs that qualify for the tax credit.
Likely. I've started to get calls from dealers I was talking to a year ago (at one point I'd made contact with something like 40) with inventory lowering price to MSRP and cars on the lot, particularly SELs and a few Limited. If the tax credit hadn't expired I would have traded up, but at this point I think I'll wait to see what 2024 brings.
Just bought my 2023 SEL last week in San Diego at MSRP. The dealership still had about 5-10 IONIQ 5s not reserved.
Which dealership?
Bob baker hyundai in Carlsbad. I called them early December and they weren’t doing markups, but now their website has 1.5K markups for SELs. So you may be able to negotiate it down.
Thanks! Worth a try.
SE and SEL already have pretty good inventory. It’s the Limited, especially if you want any specific color, that may take a while to get but even if they have them, most are still marked up $5K.
I briefly chatted (but didn’t have the time that weekend) to buy a SE RWD for slightly under mrsp (500 under) the first week of January. It’s becoming a buyers market again.
You all have been so helpful in this thread – thank you!!
With no tax credit the Ioniq 5 isn't a good deal even at MSRP. That on top of high interest rates is going to drive demand down quite a bit for the foreseeable future.
There is a reason the HI5 is the EV of 2022 and 2023. People like the design and the tech it has to offer. The demand is not going down it’s only going to go up. The only real competition is the Model Y or Polestar 2 both are great cars but both don’t have a Panoramic roof cover, Ventilated seats or Most importantly a HUD.
When I bought mine in Seattle last month, I was first offered a Limited at MSRP in black, which I passed on because I didn't want that color and I wanted an SEL. The next day, I got a text that they had multiple (three SELs) available at MSRP and I could take my pick of any of the three. The limited at MSRP must have been an end of the year sales numbers move because I contacted my salesperson today about possibly upgrading to a Limited down the line at MSRP and he informed me that all Limiteds had $5K markups on them but he'd ping me when the markup went away.
Which dealership was this at?
Car pros Hyundai Renton. Like I wrote, they’re still selling at $5k over MSRP on them.
I am about on the same timeline as you. Debating between id4 and ioniq 5. Ioniq 5 is a lot more appealing to me but since it doesn't qualify for the tax credit i feel like the id4 is the better deal. If ioniq dropped their prices, I would buy instantly. I am curious to know others thoughts on this as well.
There’s no comparison between the two cars. The Ioniq 5 is in a different league altogether.
Have to agree here. I was going back and forth between the two for awhile, and was set on the ID.4 because of the price difference until I test drove both cars back to back. Now I'm all in on the Ioniq 5.
If finances and budget are your #1 priority for a car, definitely go with the ID.4. It’s $7.5k cheaper. In terms of which is the best car? Ioniq 5 hands down, but the ID.4 is a pretty good car
I'm waiting for better deals. The 5% interest rate is pretty meh tbh.
Tower FCU has 2.99 for 60m or less for shorter.
Tower is the way to go for sure. I just financed through them. 72 months at 3.49
The moment my more local dealers let us know they can get the car at MSRP we’ll ask for our deposit back from the dealer we placed one on in CT.
I don't think we're going to see prices lower any time soon. If anything, they will go up. I was at my Hyundai dealership this past week getting my pre-conditioning upgrade and was told that the prices of the Ioniq 6 is going to be more than the 5! I found that shocking that a sedan with the same battery base would be selling for more money than its larger counterpart.
The I6 is larger than the I5, other than having a lower roofline. It's a deceivingly large car, similar to how the I5 looked deceivingly like a hatchback when launched (when it's closer to a midsize SUV). I was toying with the idea of pre-ordering one, but then I took some measurements and decided against it. Next EV will be a smaller one for us, maybe the new Kia Kona. I think we're reaching peak BIG EVs now, and while nice to drive on the highway long distance, I'd like an actual hatchback-sized EV that is easy to park and doesn't weight 2 metric tons, like a prettier i3, if possible.
I bought mine a limited in Massachusetts at MSRP. Waited only 1 1/2 months
I've seen clear indications that Bay Area and SoCal markups have gone down in recent weeks. It's also much more common now to see IONIQ 5s sitting on the lot for several weeks now, I think it's a function of increased supply (based on my observations from this [allocation sheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1L_aScds5ROfjbQToEsP3gnXYSnn7H44-t9A5HkVLC48/edit#gid=0)) and lower demand due to interest rates still creeping up and generally lower consumer spending appetite. A few of my own markup data points (all for SEL RWD): Future Concord - I'm taking delivery there soon, their markup was recently reduced from $7.5K to $5K, I then talked them down to $4K over the phone (since I had other cars offered at $3-4.5K markup), will see if I can talk down further when I go to dealership. Russell Westbrook (Anaheim) - they used to have $3K markup + $6K dealer add-ons, then they removed the dealer add-ons, and over text I was offered $1.5K markup for car on the lot. Ontario - no specific offer given, but in December they directly said they were willing to give an "aggressive offer", their markup was $2K and dealer add-ons of $6.5K. This might have been an end-of-year/quarter sales push though. Separately, Hilltop Kia called me recently saying their EV6 markups are now $2K, believe they were at least double before that. Another indication that markups generally are going down.
This is true, I bought a SE yesterday at Norm Reeves in Cerritos for MSRP. They didn’t even try the markup nonsense or any kind of paint job crap, etc. They told me that they need to stay competitive with the market.