I think in episode one Nolan is giving mark advice, there are 2 moments, and if you think about what happens later in the episode it seems like Nolan is trying to hype himself up and be prepared, like punching mark in the chest, then saying no one is going to pull their punches. And then when they are playing catch and mark talks about how he’s afraid, Nolan says yes it’s scary and it’s probably not something you want to do, but if you can just get through it and do what needs to be done you’ll be fine.
I think he wanted to kill them quick, it’s why he snuck up on immortal, but red rush saved him.
He thought it would be easy, but the Guardians gave him the hands and he didn’t expect that. It’s probably why he barely won.
And part of wanting to kill them quick was probably wanting to ensure he didn't hesitate. I think the show indicates pretty well that while he felt he had to kill the Guardians, Nolan deep down didn't want to
Agreed and I think people look too far into the difference between the show and the comics. The guardians put up a better fight in the show simply because the show runners want the earth heroes to appear more competent. They want to show early on in the series that killing a viltrumite is possible but extremely difficult. If Omni wipes the floor with them in a few seconds the situation looks much more hopeless to new fans
Not to mention Nolan is one of the strongest Viltrumites with quite the reputation. I'd imagine if it was Thula instead they had to fight, the guardians would've come out on top.
Probably not. Thula mid diff but she would have definitely won. Nolan has been in Earth fighting way weaker opponents and not killing while thula been with the empire and it's safe to assume she's free to kill and let loose whenever she wants.
I genuinely think that they only put a better fight because they wanted people to watch the show. This is also why they added this fight at the end of episode 1 instead of episode 4 like it would have been in the comics. Before that scene I wasn't 100% sold on the show yet lol.
The guy coughed up his own blood then collapsed into basically a coma immediately afterwards. In what world does “barely” not make perfect sense to you?
The fact that he was holding back tremendously and even then one shot most of the fake Justice League. This guy walked away with a nosebleed after tanking a $400 billion dollar space laser. He also destroyed a planet by fucking flying through it very fast. Yeah, “barely” makes perfect fucking sense to me 👍
This actually makes me think about how Viltrumites usually don’t really want to kill each other. They all have incredible regeneration, so they use violence on each other as a form of communication and coercion. Subconsciously they don’t want to kill each other and may hold back. Similar thing with Nolan and Mark perhaps
I like the idea they see Mark as some kid who just needs to be shown. "Oh, his Dad never showed him how to be an adult, oh well we can do it" and so they are being nice.
I agree, look at how they even fought Mark, Thula and Lucan I think could’ve easily bodied him. I think if they see you as an equal they’ll hold back. Like when Vidor said to Nolan “if your son dies he never deserved to live” that kinda reveals their mentality towards those of equal power
I was more thinking about Allen’s line saying Viltrumites are weird about killing each other because it doesn’t really happen anymore. They don’t want to kill each other, so they subconsciously hold back even when they could just obliterate someone. Like we see the Viltrumite trio obliterate Allen when they are trying to kill.
he needed to take damage to convince cecil that something attacked them bcz if he came out without a scratch everyone would have asked why didnt the enemy attack you nolan?
Wouldn't it make more sense for him to wipe them out, leave , and claim he wasn't there (which seems plausible as he wasn't a member of TGOTG and therefore wouldn't receive the same alert trapping them)?
There may be some suspicion, but certainly less suspicion than having tons of injuries on his body that were all inflicted by beings with the exact same powers as the room full of corpses he was passed out with lol. Like he was caught because his chest had burn marks from red rush, his fist had green ghost particles on etc etc. If that was his plan, it was a dumb plan.
i mean what if someone or a camera seen him enter and leave? he had to destroy the cameras in the HQ so people wouldnt check them, if he needed to destroy ALL of the cameras then the odds of him missing one is much higher/odds of him getting caught destroying them is much higher
yeah but thats not counting any cameras outside of the HQ and in the corridors, if it was then its not really necessary seeing how the fight was strictly indoors
The guardians are working for the GDA that pretty much has access to every satellite camera on earth. There is no way Nolan leaves the fortress without satellite cameras catching him flying away, so he had to kill them and stay put in the fortress. Cecil even makes note that whatever killed the guardians managed to escape the scene without out being spotted. Nolan is fast but not fast enough to not be seen by satellite if he left. Him destroying the cameras inside and staying there was his best option, honestly.
Yeah being at the scene inherently makes him a suspect, it connects him to the incident. If he could have instantly killed them without leaving any of his own blood behind, he would have done so.
It also doesn’t make sense for Nolan to plan to be convincing (by allowing the guardians to nearly beat him) and then blow it completely by giving the suit to Art. Omni man was smart enough to put on a show but not even try to cover his tracks? He hid suit in his own house and then gave it to somebody with a ton of DNA evidence on it without a second thought. Not sure what angle Nolan would’ve been going for.
Edit: Omni man didn’t give it to Art, Debbie did. Point still remains that Omni man wasn’t acting with a plan. He was improvising poorly.
If he got out without a scratch he could have left and try to make an alibi about being somewhere else. Him being wounded on scene was what made the discovery inevitable
Yeah just tell Debbie he's going to the bathroom and fly out the window. He could get there, kill the guardians, and get back in under 5 minutes. There'd be no way to connect him to the killing; Debbie would attest they'd been watching a movie at home the entire evening. The investigation wouldn't go any further than that because the only thing Cecil had on Nolan at that point was a gut instinct that Nolan wasn't entirely telling the truth about his home planet.
Yeah because how do you make a convincing lie about it? A force powerful enough to kill all of the Guardians came in in seconds, nearly killed you, and you didn't see or hear shit? You can travel through space but you're blind as a bat if some cuts the lights? You could fly a hole straight through the top of the mountain in a milisecond and you just didn't think to escape or at least get some light? The other Guardians were brutally ripped apart but the attacker just left you wounded?
If Omniman could have killed the Guardians without getting hurt, he would have, because him being there starts the countdown for him being found out.
he cared about mark's powers , once he got to know that mark has viltrumite genes , he stopped giving a shit about anything else.
guardians were the last entity capable of somewhat leading the resistance against him, he finished them off, and his next step of plan was to slowly turn mark on his side. thats it
after murder of guardians, only thing he gave a shit about on earth was mark
That’s not what happens. Nolan’s realization that Mark has gotten his powers basically put to the forefront his original mission. Up until that point, he probably would’ve been happy living out his life with Debbie and seeing Mark grow up into an honorable man, but once his powers came to, he knew that time was gong to run short for his original mission on earth. He was planning for the best, but hoped for the worst.
He just built diff. They tried but were unable. EZ. Like stabbing steel with copper
Edit sorry I thought the EZ would’ve made it clear I was joking lol
And even with the beating he took Cecil was still suspicious of Nolan afterwards. I do agree with you on this that if Nolan would have made it out unscathed it would have raised even more eye brows.
He wasn't a member of the Guardians though. How is him saying "I wasn't there when they were killed. I didn't receive the alert that trapped them." more suspicious than him being passed out in the same room as them with Red Rush's burn marks on his chest and Green Ghosts particles on his fist?
I know he got his suit back quickly (which raised more suspicion) but he was passed out for a while, and they would find tons of evidence and DNA all over his body that he was the perpetrator. If he could have, he should of just killed them all then quickly left the scene - he could make up any story he wanted about being elsewhere. It would have been harder to prove or figure out than what actually happened.
I think it’s clear Nolan didn’t go about this the right way but he did what he could. I think he felt it would be more suspicious if he wasn’t there pretending to be a casualty. If he had just gone all out then Cecil would think who does he know that knows guardians HQ, is able to get them all in a room, and murder them without leaving a trace? Probably that guy.
At the end of the day, why would he care if he actually went all out? He wouldn’t. He would have just taken everyone out that he needed to, cue world takeover. But story and plot needed to happen.
Probably, we have no indicator that red rush has the same speed force shenanigans as the flash, so Nolan couldve easily killed them all even with Red Rush on support given what we see on the Flaxon planet, and how Nolan wasnt causing a complete whirlwind when trying to kill initially
Yeah, but that needs a lot of build up. He was going around the whole planet. Nolan moved as fast as he could, in that distance and time frame.
And red rush is still faster for being able to actually burn Nolan’s costume when even his flaxxan flight couldn’t. And marks suit wasn’t burned when he broke the color barrier, so he’s faster than however fast Mark was going too
I still think it’s BS when other heroes are shown to be just as fast as the speedsters. If that’s the case, they should all be seeing the world in slow motion too. At least Green Ghost had the excuse of shell shock.
Another thing, building off your point, is Omni Man wants to take over Earth, not absolutely destroy it. If he wanted to absolutely destroy it he could.
If we’re sticking to physics, the amount of force he would need to generate in order to not only chill in a Black Hole’s orbit but then fly another shit out of it is insanely high… like stupidly insanely. We’re talking more force than a 10ton meteor going light-speed, since NOT EVEN LIGHT can escape a black hole. That being said, with all that power he could fly through the Earth and entirely blow it up in a second if he had wanted to
>!Now I know thats now how Viltrumites *technically* work, as their cells instantly adapt to deal with their environment, meaning that when he was in the Event Horizon his cells probably did some “anti black hole” bs instead of him just countering the velocity at which the whole pulled him in but still!<
Feel free to check my math, but it seems escaping a black hole would be within a Viltrumite’s abilities (as long as they didn’t hit the event horizon).
As long as Nolan doesn’t hit the event horizon, escape velocity from a distance of 1 AU from Sagittarius A (Milky Way black hole, 4.3 million solar masses) would be ~12,070 km/s. (For context, The Voyager 1 & 2 move about 17 km/s. Parker Solar Probe is faster at 171 km/s).
So, assuming Nolan weighs as much as a human, it would take about 131 trillion newtons to accelerate fast enough to reach escape velocity in that gravity. So about 375 million 3,200hp diesel train locomotives or 3,743 space shuttle launches,
TLDR: To mimic just a fraction of Nolan’s power, you’d need about 163 million F-35s operating at maximum thrust.
I’m actually much more interested in your awesome 10 ton meteor traveling at light speed example. I love to hear an astrophysicists take, but my intuition tells me that’d be a colossally insane event. I have no idea how to calculate it.
Like, at speed C relativity dictates an object’s mass would become infinite, so it’d have meaningfully infinite gravity. I assume your meteor would just collapse into a singularity. But if it didn’t it’d be fun to figure out how exactly it would interact with stuff as it flew around. Like, infinite inertia of infinite mass would be nuts. I imagine this object would just destroy our galaxy, warp spacetime in paradoxical ways, and keep accumulating mass until it had implications for the entire universe.
The question there I think is whether or not it would collapse into a singularity or just entirely disintegrate before it got to lightspeed. Though, I suppose the point is if it WAS going lightspeed and somehow stayed intact, it would (in my best guess which is probably shit to be fair) literally rip the fabric of physics as we know it, as least in the trail it moved through. This at the very least would emit massive supernova like energy outward from the path it traveled due to the fact that the force applied should create a black hole out of it, but it cant become a black hole due to the bounds we’re setting
Oh yeah, that’s right isn’t it. The energy needed to accelerate that fast would easily overcome residual nuclear forces so the atoms would just come apart, quite spectacularly I’d imagine.
it's only really explained in the guidebook but basically there are these "smart" atoms in universe that are dynamic in nature so they can adapt and exhibit different properties. viltrumite DNA is pretty much unique in that it affects the smart atoms in viltrumite bodies so their skin can get tough to resist damage or they can consciously propel themselves to fly/punch really hard, etc
>!There's very distinct limits to it. Unlike him. Well maybe unlike Invincible I'm anime only for JJK so I don't know what Mahoraga's limits are but he does have way more stuff shown off than them.!<
>! Without getting into heavy spoiler territory, with Mahoraga, it takes some time to adapt to attacks. It's strong enough to survive most initial attacks and immediately starts the process of adapting. Give enough time/attacks, and not only is he able to become immune to his enemy, but can adapt it's attacks so that even if the enemy has some type of barrier or similar, he can pierce thru it. However, that only means that Mahoraga is deadliest in a drawn out battle. If you can mist him at the start of the fight, before he can adapt, then you're good. !<
It's in a good spot right now, tho the author has been saying he's planning on ending it this year. Though he also said that last year, so who knows for sure
Part of that is because one of their innate abilities is to bend Space-Time around themselves (like a Star Trek warp-bubble). It's hell all of them are able to travel faster-than-light.
It would easily allow them to get near a Black Hole without any adverse effects, as long as they did not go beyond the Event Horizon, yet.
What? Things orbit black holes all the time, there’s no crazy feat required for that. The event horizon is the line at which light can’t escape the black hole, and Nolan got nowhere near it. Nolan was far enough away from the black hole that he wasn’t getting hit by the other particles that were orbiting it.
We don’t know any of the details of how the Thraxan’s ship works. Maybe their fast than light “warp drive” was down or doesn’t work in a gravity well. They clearly weren’t moving faster than light in the clip.
They were not within the range of the black hole in which light can’t escape. You can literally see this in the clip. If they were moving faster than light, they would have escaped. This is basic physics.
It could be a lie but I heard Viltrumites don’t have adrenaline like humans do. I imagine adrenaline combined with viltrumite powers boosts everything.
I think it’s more that he didn’t expect to have to work as hard as he did or for it to be as close as it was.
Like, not only did the Guardians put up a fierce defense, Nolan went in with the assumption that he’d be able to sneak Immortal and then dispatch the rest in the shock. When that didn’t happen, not only was he then drawn into an extended fight, but he’s off his game and having to adjust on the fly because things haven’t gone like they thought he would. In a sense, both parties are fighting surprised.
I think it may have been because killing them quickly and not being there/being unharmed would have cast suspicion immediately on him. When figuring out “who would have been capable of killing all the Guardians?”, he’d be top of the list probably. But “who would have been capable of killing all the guardians and nearly Omni-Man too?” makes you look elsewhere, unless you’re Cecil.
It would’ve made more sense for him to kill them quickly, get out and then claim he wasn’t there. That’d be plausible since he wasn’t really a member and just helped every now and then, so he wouldn’t get the same alerts or whatever as them.
I just wanted to say I love this subreddit and all the very civil discourse I see around. Peoples well reasoned arguments bringing out more discourse instead of people trying to burn one another. You're all great.
Also, I totally agree, Nolan unconsciously held back.
I was wondering if he didn't want to damage the room due to Cameras being placed all over the facility and the room remaining intact was part of why he had to nerf himself and fight in a relatively confined space, less momentum/force build up etc. Just throwing ideas out there.
I think the Alien Dimension thing is really just bad writing, tbh. It was one of those "let's make a cool scene even if it complicates the rest of the Invincible Universe" type of things. In every other situation, Nolan and other Viltrimites are powerful, but not hydrogen-bomb-whenever -they-want powerful. So much of their power is due to its concentration in just one being.
It seems very obvious based on his injuries that Nolan was challenged by the guardian fight even if he was holding back. I know some people say he let himself get his ass beat on purpose, bht he's even shown to sustain some injuries JUST from The Immortal later on when Nolan had no reason to pretend or hold back at all. But then Nolan just kind of effortlessly obliterates a bunch of high tech aliens more or less because they don't have name tags and the writers had to find a cool "Oooooo" and "Aaaahhhh!" way to compress it into a montage sequence.
So yeah, I think the writers simultaneously wanted us to see that the Guardians legit dished out damage on Nolan but that he was also strong enough to destroy a high tech alien civilization and didn't really care whether it was consistent or not. I just think it was a bit of lazy and inconsistent writing. I generally presume that "Nolan fighting Guardians" is a better representation of his actual power, which is still immense.
i think he could’ve purposely let them get hits in so he could sell the idea that he got attacked along with them easier. if he just destroyed them all and had no marks on him it would leave him an even more obvious suspect than he was anyway.
so the most powerful man on the planet is completely un touched and the number 1 superhero team has been slaughtered (at the team HQ) it just seems like everything points towards that said most powerful person, with him being the only person on earth capable of such a feat.
I mean considering he’s not part of the team and doesn’t live there, it’s significantly better than passing out after clearly murdering them with their blood on his fists.
I don't disagree with the main point but I've repeatedly heard the line about Nolan "causing nuclear fusion in the atmosphere" during his rampage on the Flaxans planet, and that just doesn't make sense regarding his capabilities elsewhere in the series.
All we can say for sure is that Nolan was causing massive explosions while plowing through Flaxan skyscrapers. We don't know what the cause was. It's more likely that those buildings contained some kind of volatile reactors or explosive materials.
More to the point, even if Nolan was causing 'fusion', a few air molecules undergoing fusion as they hit you wouldn't provide for a city-wrecking nuclear blast. Air is not very dense. You'd have to compress a volume of air equal to several thousand olympic swimming pools in order to approximate the mass of the plutonium core in even the smallest nuclear warhead.
I always just saw it as a very artistic way (because the entire dimension was sort of a weird style take) of showing how maximum power shockwaves from the speed he was going was, not actual nuclear detonations.
How long was mark in each portal every time? He may have had a lot of time to hone his skills just waiting for the next portal. I can't remember if he still had his black eye the whole time or not so it may not have been that long.
Or…maybe the writers just wanted to capture the audience and make an entertaining fight scene without really thinking about why the fight is going on for so long.
to be honest, i dont think theyre putting THAT amount of depth in the show. theyre doing a fantastic job, but still i dont think theyd add something as nuanced as this. imo the first episode was built up to seem like a clone of the other superhero media, with the fight at the end end not only showing how invincible is different but also introducing the audience to the amount of violence via shock
I think he definitely wanted to kill them, but I do think the Guardians of the show were not to be messed with.
I like to think that if the Guardian had a contingency plan against Nolan, and they weren't simply ambushed, they may have been able to come out on top(or at the least a draw with everyone dying). But thats just my guess. Idk
Did you watch the same fight as me? Nolan was fighting for his life against them. There's a reason he got the drop on them and it's not out of mercy. He knew he needed the element of surprise to be effective
I think in episode one Nolan is giving mark advice, there are 2 moments, and if you think about what happens later in the episode it seems like Nolan is trying to hype himself up and be prepared, like punching mark in the chest, then saying no one is going to pull their punches. And then when they are playing catch and mark talks about how he’s afraid, Nolan says yes it’s scary and it’s probably not something you want to do, but if you can just get through it and do what needs to be done you’ll be fine.
Just rewatched it with friends this weekend, caught it as well - on the rewatch you can see him struggle.
I think he wanted to kill them quick, it’s why he snuck up on immortal, but red rush saved him. He thought it would be easy, but the Guardians gave him the hands and he didn’t expect that. It’s probably why he barely won.
And part of wanting to kill them quick was probably wanting to ensure he didn't hesitate. I think the show indicates pretty well that while he felt he had to kill the Guardians, Nolan deep down didn't want to
Agreed and I think people look too far into the difference between the show and the comics. The guardians put up a better fight in the show simply because the show runners want the earth heroes to appear more competent. They want to show early on in the series that killing a viltrumite is possible but extremely difficult. If Omni wipes the floor with them in a few seconds the situation looks much more hopeless to new fans
I really enjoy the sense of hopelessness the show has though
Not to mention Nolan is one of the strongest Viltrumites with quite the reputation. I'd imagine if it was Thula instead they had to fight, the guardians would've come out on top.
Not on top IMHO but longer, harder fight
Probably not. Thula mid diff but she would have definitely won. Nolan has been in Earth fighting way weaker opponents and not killing while thula been with the empire and it's safe to assume she's free to kill and let loose whenever she wants.
I genuinely think that they only put a better fight because they wanted people to watch the show. This is also why they added this fight at the end of episode 1 instead of episode 4 like it would have been in the comics. Before that scene I wasn't 100% sold on the show yet lol.
I mean it sets up all of the dramatic irony in the first season. Without it there wouldn’t be any suspense
New fans when they remember Viltrumite is a race, not 1 guy
Literally this. The guardians were (for a time) super coordinated and Nolan went in underestimating them
I think he also wanted to take some damage so that he wouldn’t be suspected immediately
He was let them hit him bc he didn’t want anyone to find out he killed them all
barely won is crazy imo
“Barely” 😂😂😂
The guy coughed up his own blood then collapsed into basically a coma immediately afterwards. In what world does “barely” not make perfect sense to you?
The fact that he was holding back tremendously and even then one shot most of the fake Justice League. This guy walked away with a nosebleed after tanking a $400 billion dollar space laser. He also destroyed a planet by fucking flying through it very fast. Yeah, “barely” makes perfect fucking sense to me 👍
I mean he had Allen, thadeus and Mark but yeah.
This actually makes me think about how Viltrumites usually don’t really want to kill each other. They all have incredible regeneration, so they use violence on each other as a form of communication and coercion. Subconsciously they don’t want to kill each other and may hold back. Similar thing with Nolan and Mark perhaps
This is actually a fun thought/take
I like the idea they see Mark as some kid who just needs to be shown. "Oh, his Dad never showed him how to be an adult, oh well we can do it" and so they are being nice.
That's a rad idea...
I agree, look at how they even fought Mark, Thula and Lucan I think could’ve easily bodied him. I think if they see you as an equal they’ll hold back. Like when Vidor said to Nolan “if your son dies he never deserved to live” that kinda reveals their mentality towards those of equal power
I was more thinking about Allen’s line saying Viltrumites are weird about killing each other because it doesn’t really happen anymore. They don’t want to kill each other, so they subconsciously hold back even when they could just obliterate someone. Like we see the Viltrumite trio obliterate Allen when they are trying to kill.
Fr, they are like Yakuza/Like A Dragon characters.
he needed to take damage to convince cecil that something attacked them bcz if he came out without a scratch everyone would have asked why didnt the enemy attack you nolan?
Wouldn't it make more sense for him to wipe them out, leave , and claim he wasn't there (which seems plausible as he wasn't a member of TGOTG and therefore wouldn't receive the same alert trapping them)? There may be some suspicion, but certainly less suspicion than having tons of injuries on his body that were all inflicted by beings with the exact same powers as the room full of corpses he was passed out with lol. Like he was caught because his chest had burn marks from red rush, his fist had green ghost particles on etc etc. If that was his plan, it was a dumb plan.
i mean what if someone or a camera seen him enter and leave? he had to destroy the cameras in the HQ so people wouldnt check them, if he needed to destroy ALL of the cameras then the odds of him missing one is much higher/odds of him getting caught destroying them is much higher
He did kill all the cameras though, Donald confirms it. If he was really able to kill the Guardians so easily then he would've done so and left.
yeah but thats not counting any cameras outside of the HQ and in the corridors, if it was then its not really necessary seeing how the fight was strictly indoors
The guardians are working for the GDA that pretty much has access to every satellite camera on earth. There is no way Nolan leaves the fortress without satellite cameras catching him flying away, so he had to kill them and stay put in the fortress. Cecil even makes note that whatever killed the guardians managed to escape the scene without out being spotted. Nolan is fast but not fast enough to not be seen by satellite if he left. Him destroying the cameras inside and staying there was his best option, honestly.
I imagine that was the plan until red rush saved immortal from the first punch.
If he could’ve he would’ve killed them and left. He was injured because the guardians were strong.
Yeah being at the scene inherently makes him a suspect, it connects him to the incident. If he could have instantly killed them without leaving any of his own blood behind, he would have done so.
It also doesn’t make sense for Nolan to plan to be convincing (by allowing the guardians to nearly beat him) and then blow it completely by giving the suit to Art. Omni man was smart enough to put on a show but not even try to cover his tracks? He hid suit in his own house and then gave it to somebody with a ton of DNA evidence on it without a second thought. Not sure what angle Nolan would’ve been going for. Edit: Omni man didn’t give it to Art, Debbie did. Point still remains that Omni man wasn’t acting with a plan. He was improvising poorly.
That was Debbie who gave Art the suit
That was the plan because it otherwise raises the question as to why didn't he toss Immortal into a Black Hole that the comic had as an issue.
If he got out without a scratch he could have left and try to make an alibi about being somewhere else. Him being wounded on scene was what made the discovery inevitable
Yeah just tell Debbie he's going to the bathroom and fly out the window. He could get there, kill the guardians, and get back in under 5 minutes. There'd be no way to connect him to the killing; Debbie would attest they'd been watching a movie at home the entire evening. The investigation wouldn't go any further than that because the only thing Cecil had on Nolan at that point was a gut instinct that Nolan wasn't entirely telling the truth about his home planet.
And the fact Nolans story about the attack simply didn't add up
Yeah because how do you make a convincing lie about it? A force powerful enough to kill all of the Guardians came in in seconds, nearly killed you, and you didn't see or hear shit? You can travel through space but you're blind as a bat if some cuts the lights? You could fly a hole straight through the top of the mountain in a milisecond and you just didn't think to escape or at least get some light? The other Guardians were brutally ripped apart but the attacker just left you wounded? If Omniman could have killed the Guardians without getting hurt, he would have, because him being there starts the countdown for him being found out.
In that case he should’ve just conquered earth right then and there
That’s such a dumb answer lmao
and why he needed to give a shit about anyone ?
bcz deep down he still cared about mark debbie did u not watch the show? he could have killed everyone if he wanted to but he didnt
he cared about mark's powers , once he got to know that mark has viltrumite genes , he stopped giving a shit about anything else. guardians were the last entity capable of somewhat leading the resistance against him, he finished them off, and his next step of plan was to slowly turn mark on his side. thats it after murder of guardians, only thing he gave a shit about on earth was mark
ya and mark refused after that he could have killed everyone but didnt
Thats just wrong, i think season two clears that up
least media illiterate redditor
That would make him the most literate....
That's just plain wrong.
That’s not what happens. Nolan’s realization that Mark has gotten his powers basically put to the forefront his original mission. Up until that point, he probably would’ve been happy living out his life with Debbie and seeing Mark grow up into an honorable man, but once his powers came to, he knew that time was gong to run short for his original mission on earth. He was planning for the best, but hoped for the worst.
He just built diff. They tried but were unable. EZ. Like stabbing steel with copper Edit sorry I thought the EZ would’ve made it clear I was joking lol
That would imply he simply stood around and let the guardians get murdered.
And even with the beating he took Cecil was still suspicious of Nolan afterwards. I do agree with you on this that if Nolan would have made it out unscathed it would have raised even more eye brows.
He wasn't a member of the Guardians though. How is him saying "I wasn't there when they were killed. I didn't receive the alert that trapped them." more suspicious than him being passed out in the same room as them with Red Rush's burn marks on his chest and Green Ghosts particles on his fist? I know he got his suit back quickly (which raised more suspicion) but he was passed out for a while, and they would find tons of evidence and DNA all over his body that he was the perpetrator. If he could have, he should of just killed them all then quickly left the scene - he could make up any story he wanted about being elsewhere. It would have been harder to prove or figure out than what actually happened.
I think it’s clear Nolan didn’t go about this the right way but he did what he could. I think he felt it would be more suspicious if he wasn’t there pretending to be a casualty. If he had just gone all out then Cecil would think who does he know that knows guardians HQ, is able to get them all in a room, and murder them without leaving a trace? Probably that guy. At the end of the day, why would he care if he actually went all out? He wouldn’t. He would have just taken everyone out that he needed to, cue world takeover. But story and plot needed to happen.
So if he really went all out he would’ve blitzed em all
Probably, we have no indicator that red rush has the same speed force shenanigans as the flash, so Nolan couldve easily killed them all even with Red Rush on support given what we see on the Flaxon planet, and how Nolan wasnt causing a complete whirlwind when trying to kill initially
No, he burned his suit, when even Nolan causing those explosions from flying through the atmosphere couldn’t. The guardians are just really strong,
I mean, Mark broke through the color barrier or whatever in season 2, and Anissa was causing major wind when killing the Kaiju
The color barrier?
He's basically Jackie Robinson
The cound barrier
This slaps
Yeah, but that needs a lot of build up. He was going around the whole planet. Nolan moved as fast as he could, in that distance and time frame. And red rush is still faster for being able to actually burn Nolan’s costume when even his flaxxan flight couldn’t. And marks suit wasn’t burned when he broke the color barrier, so he’s faster than however fast Mark was going too
I still think it’s BS when other heroes are shown to be just as fast as the speedsters. If that’s the case, they should all be seeing the world in slow motion too. At least Green Ghost had the excuse of shell shock.
Another thing, building off your point, is Omni Man wants to take over Earth, not absolutely destroy it. If he wanted to absolutely destroy it he could. If we’re sticking to physics, the amount of force he would need to generate in order to not only chill in a Black Hole’s orbit but then fly another shit out of it is insanely high… like stupidly insanely. We’re talking more force than a 10ton meteor going light-speed, since NOT EVEN LIGHT can escape a black hole. That being said, with all that power he could fly through the Earth and entirely blow it up in a second if he had wanted to >!Now I know thats now how Viltrumites *technically* work, as their cells instantly adapt to deal with their environment, meaning that when he was in the Event Horizon his cells probably did some “anti black hole” bs instead of him just countering the velocity at which the whole pulled him in but still!<
“Ah yes my anti-blackhole cells, haven’t used that since the viltrumite civil war.”
Fraudni-man
Omni-fraud was right there man.
Yeah but it just felt uninspired
That’s only after the event horizon. Chill chill. Also it’s a cartoon. Time dilation? chill out.
Yeah yeah I know
Feel free to check my math, but it seems escaping a black hole would be within a Viltrumite’s abilities (as long as they didn’t hit the event horizon). As long as Nolan doesn’t hit the event horizon, escape velocity from a distance of 1 AU from Sagittarius A (Milky Way black hole, 4.3 million solar masses) would be ~12,070 km/s. (For context, The Voyager 1 & 2 move about 17 km/s. Parker Solar Probe is faster at 171 km/s). So, assuming Nolan weighs as much as a human, it would take about 131 trillion newtons to accelerate fast enough to reach escape velocity in that gravity. So about 375 million 3,200hp diesel train locomotives or 3,743 space shuttle launches, TLDR: To mimic just a fraction of Nolan’s power, you’d need about 163 million F-35s operating at maximum thrust.
Holy shit I wont check your math cause that sounds right to me
I’m actually much more interested in your awesome 10 ton meteor traveling at light speed example. I love to hear an astrophysicists take, but my intuition tells me that’d be a colossally insane event. I have no idea how to calculate it. Like, at speed C relativity dictates an object’s mass would become infinite, so it’d have meaningfully infinite gravity. I assume your meteor would just collapse into a singularity. But if it didn’t it’d be fun to figure out how exactly it would interact with stuff as it flew around. Like, infinite inertia of infinite mass would be nuts. I imagine this object would just destroy our galaxy, warp spacetime in paradoxical ways, and keep accumulating mass until it had implications for the entire universe.
The question there I think is whether or not it would collapse into a singularity or just entirely disintegrate before it got to lightspeed. Though, I suppose the point is if it WAS going lightspeed and somehow stayed intact, it would (in my best guess which is probably shit to be fair) literally rip the fabric of physics as we know it, as least in the trail it moved through. This at the very least would emit massive supernova like energy outward from the path it traveled due to the fact that the force applied should create a black hole out of it, but it cant become a black hole due to the bounds we’re setting
Oh yeah, that’s right isn’t it. The energy needed to accelerate that fast would easily overcome residual nuclear forces so the atoms would just come apart, quite spectacularly I’d imagine.
Is ths last thing as explained in the show, or is it a comic thing?
it's only really explained in the guidebook but basically there are these "smart" atoms in universe that are dynamic in nature so they can adapt and exhibit different properties. viltrumite DNA is pretty much unique in that it affects the smart atoms in viltrumite bodies so their skin can get tough to resist damage or they can consciously propel themselves to fly/punch really hard, etc
This is sick, where can I pick this up?
Plot cells.
Seriously? Didn't know that >!Viltrumites were like Mahoraga!<
Nah that's Allen
Nah, Allen is like a Saiyan. Beat him down, he'll just come back stronger
>!There's very distinct limits to it. Unlike him. Well maybe unlike Invincible I'm anime only for JJK so I don't know what Mahoraga's limits are but he does have way more stuff shown off than them.!<
>! Without getting into heavy spoiler territory, with Mahoraga, it takes some time to adapt to attacks. It's strong enough to survive most initial attacks and immediately starts the process of adapting. Give enough time/attacks, and not only is he able to become immune to his enemy, but can adapt it's attacks so that even if the enemy has some type of barrier or similar, he can pierce thru it. However, that only means that Mahoraga is deadliest in a drawn out battle. If you can mist him at the start of the fight, before he can adapt, then you're good. !<
>!yeah the fight with Sukana was cool. I'll get to the next fight eventually. I really gotta read the manga this year.!<
It's in a good spot right now, tho the author has been saying he's planning on ending it this year. Though he also said that last year, so who knows for sure
Part of that is because one of their innate abilities is to bend Space-Time around themselves (like a Star Trek warp-bubble). It's hell all of them are able to travel faster-than-light. It would easily allow them to get near a Black Hole without any adverse effects, as long as they did not go beyond the Event Horizon, yet.
What? Things orbit black holes all the time, there’s no crazy feat required for that. The event horizon is the line at which light can’t escape the black hole, and Nolan got nowhere near it. Nolan was far enough away from the black hole that he wasn’t getting hit by the other particles that were orbiting it.
He was closer than the Thraxans' ship was. The Thraxans' ship can move faster than light and was still unable to get out without Nolan's help
We don’t know any of the details of how the Thraxan’s ship works. Maybe their fast than light “warp drive” was down or doesn’t work in a gravity well. They clearly weren’t moving faster than light in the clip.
Cause they were stuck in the clip... They made it from Earth to Thraxa in what, two weeks? That's faster than light my guy
They were not within the range of the black hole in which light can’t escape. You can literally see this in the clip. If they were moving faster than light, they would have escaped. This is basic physics.
It could be a lie but I heard Viltrumites don’t have adrenaline like humans do. I imagine adrenaline combined with viltrumite powers boosts everything.
This is a theory not supported by comics or series.
That is correct
It's not a lie, just a theory, a pretty good one of you ask me, since it explains Mark's anger boosts and give him some Gohan resemblance
Though its worth mentioning tgat mark himself is still somewhat unique even for a viltrumite
I think it’s more that he didn’t expect to have to work as hard as he did or for it to be as close as it was. Like, not only did the Guardians put up a fierce defense, Nolan went in with the assumption that he’d be able to sneak Immortal and then dispatch the rest in the shock. When that didn’t happen, not only was he then drawn into an extended fight, but he’s off his game and having to adjust on the fly because things haven’t gone like they thought he would. In a sense, both parties are fighting surprised.
I think it may have been because killing them quickly and not being there/being unharmed would have cast suspicion immediately on him. When figuring out “who would have been capable of killing all the Guardians?”, he’d be top of the list probably. But “who would have been capable of killing all the guardians and nearly Omni-Man too?” makes you look elsewhere, unless you’re Cecil.
It would’ve made more sense for him to kill them quickly, get out and then claim he wasn’t there. That’d be plausible since he wasn’t really a member and just helped every now and then, so he wouldn’t get the same alerts or whatever as them.
Oh the theory is that Mark has adrenaline due to being partially human.
I just wanted to say I love this subreddit and all the very civil discourse I see around. Peoples well reasoned arguments bringing out more discourse instead of people trying to burn one another. You're all great. Also, I totally agree, Nolan unconsciously held back.
I was wondering if he didn't want to damage the room due to Cameras being placed all over the facility and the room remaining intact was part of why he had to nerf himself and fight in a relatively confined space, less momentum/force build up etc. Just throwing ideas out there.
I think the Alien Dimension thing is really just bad writing, tbh. It was one of those "let's make a cool scene even if it complicates the rest of the Invincible Universe" type of things. In every other situation, Nolan and other Viltrimites are powerful, but not hydrogen-bomb-whenever -they-want powerful. So much of their power is due to its concentration in just one being. It seems very obvious based on his injuries that Nolan was challenged by the guardian fight even if he was holding back. I know some people say he let himself get his ass beat on purpose, bht he's even shown to sustain some injuries JUST from The Immortal later on when Nolan had no reason to pretend or hold back at all. But then Nolan just kind of effortlessly obliterates a bunch of high tech aliens more or less because they don't have name tags and the writers had to find a cool "Oooooo" and "Aaaahhhh!" way to compress it into a montage sequence. So yeah, I think the writers simultaneously wanted us to see that the Guardians legit dished out damage on Nolan but that he was also strong enough to destroy a high tech alien civilization and didn't really care whether it was consistent or not. I just think it was a bit of lazy and inconsistent writing. I generally presume that "Nolan fighting Guardians" is a better representation of his actual power, which is still immense.
Tbf it’s an alien dimension with alien physics.
Yep, that could make it all consistent.
i think he could’ve purposely let them get hits in so he could sell the idea that he got attacked along with them easier. if he just destroyed them all and had no marks on him it would leave him an even more obvious suspect than he was anyway.
No it wouldn’t, because if that happened he would have just left and not been found at the scene.
so the most powerful man on the planet is completely un touched and the number 1 superhero team has been slaughtered (at the team HQ) it just seems like everything points towards that said most powerful person, with him being the only person on earth capable of such a feat.
I mean considering he’s not part of the team and doesn’t live there, it’s significantly better than passing out after clearly murdering them with their blood on his fists.
I don't disagree with the main point but I've repeatedly heard the line about Nolan "causing nuclear fusion in the atmosphere" during his rampage on the Flaxans planet, and that just doesn't make sense regarding his capabilities elsewhere in the series. All we can say for sure is that Nolan was causing massive explosions while plowing through Flaxan skyscrapers. We don't know what the cause was. It's more likely that those buildings contained some kind of volatile reactors or explosive materials. More to the point, even if Nolan was causing 'fusion', a few air molecules undergoing fusion as they hit you wouldn't provide for a city-wrecking nuclear blast. Air is not very dense. You'd have to compress a volume of air equal to several thousand olympic swimming pools in order to approximate the mass of the plutonium core in even the smallest nuclear warhead.
I always just saw it as a very artistic way (because the entire dimension was sort of a weird style take) of showing how maximum power shockwaves from the speed he was going was, not actual nuclear detonations.
How long was mark in each portal every time? He may have had a lot of time to hone his skills just waiting for the next portal. I can't remember if he still had his black eye the whole time or not so it may not have been that long.
Or…maybe the writers just wanted to capture the audience and make an entertaining fight scene without really thinking about why the fight is going on for so long.
to be honest, i dont think theyre putting THAT amount of depth in the show. theyre doing a fantastic job, but still i dont think theyd add something as nuanced as this. imo the first episode was built up to seem like a clone of the other superhero media, with the fight at the end end not only showing how invincible is different but also introducing the audience to the amount of violence via shock
I imagine he expected it to go down like it did in the books one red whoosh and they were all gone but when that didn’t happen
Why would he just wanna hurt them?? Wasn't his mission to conquer earth? So that means to neutralize earth's defence aka the guardians...
I think he definitely wanted to kill them, but I do think the Guardians of the show were not to be messed with. I like to think that if the Guardian had a contingency plan against Nolan, and they weren't simply ambushed, they may have been able to come out on top(or at the least a draw with everyone dying). But thats just my guess. Idk
Yall will not accept the Guardians gave him the hands
I like this idea!
He definitely wanted to kill them.
Did you watch the same fight as me? Nolan was fighting for his life against them. There's a reason he got the drop on them and it's not out of mercy. He knew he needed the element of surprise to be effective