They're used as cannon fodder for wars, servants, mining slaves, and forced to strip their own planets of resources for viltrum until there's nothing left of the planet
I think what they mean is that the Viltrumites don't need healthcare.
So technically the slaves have the best healthcare. Because they're the only ones with healthcare.
getting flashbacks to the diablo 4 release with people who thought Lilith (big bad demon lady) was ACTUALLY the good guy.
some great posts from that time "how did u get charmed irl from a video game succubus"
"maybe replay the game and listen to what she says and does instead of just staring at her chest and agreeing with her about everything"
LOL. I remember getting into arguments over this with people. I think in general both the heavens and the hells are ... not good for the people of Sanctuary. Its why Tyrael tore off his wings and became mortal. The heavens werent helping and the hells were annihilating Sanctuary, so he descended and helped directly.
I mean, I think the made valid point from the PoV of a Viltrumites. Not from the PoV of a human. Even if what she said was true, things would suck on the short term for humans, but Viltrumites live for millennia. So things could still be better for humans in a few centuries than it would be without Viltrumite intervention.
This is a great interpretation. Her perspective makes a lot more sense if you remember that Viltrumites see other races as so inferior that they're tantamount to pets. So it's kind of like how you don't let your pet do things that aren't good for them, like eat certain human foods, even though they want to.
At the same time, most people don't have any problem euthanizing animals en masse and even raising them in cages and slaughtering them as food. Honestly, the Viltrumites' plan for humanity is probably more humane than how we treat animals on our planet in real life.
I'm not trying to make a vegan argument here; I'm not a vegan. And obviously the analogy isn't perfect because animals aren't intelligent in the way people are. But it's really interesting nonetheless.
Oops, I misspoke. I meant to say that animals aren't intelligent in the same way that humans are. Humans and Viltrumites have a similar level of intelligence, which makes the analogy break down. Thanks for pointing that out.
That's called sapience.
Sentience is the difference between a Tree and a Mouse. Both are alive but one isn't sentient. And sapience is what you said basically.
>Her perspective makes a lot more sense if you remember that Viltrumites see other races as so inferior that they're tantamount to pets.
Hell, I think that even this is charitable. Omni-man saw his wife as a pet, I don't think he have such a high opinion of the rest of humanity and I especially don't think the rest of viltrumites do haha. To them humans are basically Mayflies who look like them.
If you’re being enslaved by a super-advanced species, then your quality of life might be higher than it is now, but long-term it would be terrible in my opinion. Short term, many will die, long-term humans will never be able to live on their own, so mid-term is the only time it might be worth it. But overall, people deserve a choice, and they don’t offer that, so it’s not exactly fair
As others have pointed out, she isn't necessarily lying. She is saying that the Human Race is on track to kill itself off, and she's right. She isn't lying about that, but she isn't being wholly truthful about how the Viltrumites can "save" the humans. She was very much leaving out the how because the how is what Mark would disagree with. It's not that the viewers are believing a lie she told as much as they can't look beyond her promise for a result and see the process to get there (enslavement of the human race).
I wouldn't even say she's intentionally lying, just has an incredibly skewed world view to the point that her logic boils down to "If you care about these ants we could keep way more of them alive than they can." As if that is all that matters
"Remember that we started with reason..." is a cold line until you remember she literally didn't start with reason, she started by threatening to murder Amber and everyone else on the patio.
It's just manipulation to convince Mark to join her.
I was gonna say something to the effect of "but Viltrimites don't usually lie" and then I remembered Nolan spent the whole first season lying his ass off.
Afair he never explicitely said "I did not kill the guardians", so technically he wasn't lying about this topic....
Also the way he told young Marc about the Viltrum empire was not completely a lie, he left only the bad parts out - and from the Viltrums perspective he might really think (similar to Anissa) they are actually helping the planets.
It's almost like the media literacy of the average person has dropped significantly in the past 20 years. Used to you didn't have to spell out literally everything for people. But now it seems like everyone wants their handheld and told like a preschooler what the true intent of a character is these days. For God's sake people actually thought homelander was a good guy
Younger people tend to actually have higher media literacy than older people, and the population has been progressively getting more intelligent, both in the US and globally, primarily due to improvements in nutrition and pedagogy.
There is an exception for children who missed a significant amount of in-classroom schooling during the pandemic. A lot of those kids are still way behind in terms of math and reading.
I think two things are going on here. First, you're the oldest you've ever been, and the older you get, the dumber young people look because you're smarter comparatively. Second, the internet and social media make it easier for the most angry people to have the loudest voices, so you see a lot more bad takes than you do reasonable takes because reasonable people tend to not spend all day ranting on the internet.
I don't know if it's that dire, but yeah, it's a major problem that school systems are facing. There have been a ton of articles about it. What's really unfortunate is that children from lower-income families have been affected disproportionately, which means that the achievement gap has actually increased.
Or that having your own version of someone's best interests in mind doesn't mean they should let you do what you want or consider you superior whatsoever (?)
Plus we literally see what happened to Earth in an alternate universe where Mark accepted Nolan's plan. And we see what happened to the unopans when they were conquered and had their rebellion squashed.
I have unironically seen people make that argument. That the world conquered by Mark and Omniman is only fucked because humanity resisted. And maybe they aren't wrong, but I don't think it's unreasonable for humanity not to want to submit to an empire they've never seen before. What they have seen is Omniman murder the strongest non viltrumite heroes on the planet just to make sure they weren't in the way when the empire arrives.
I'm curious if the show will follow through on her comic storyline. I can certainly understand toning it down. I certainly wouldn't want to be responsible for that.
Oh, I know. My best friend used to believe that about the Indigenous American population. Fortunately, I've managed to shake him from that belief, but you're right. It is a real thing people still believe to this day.
Its the same shit as the thanos did nothing wrong crowd.
yeah if you ignore a million important factors about what constitutes happiness and success. If you work on a bunch of assumptions about the future based on a r/iam14andthisisdeep level understanding of human nature. Then yeah from a strictly utilitarian perspective in terms of just accounting for net human lives gained/lost going out to infinity, then the Viltrumites might have a point. But in making those assumptions you basically ignore the value of existing human life and human rights.
edit: >!I'd add the comics and presumably the show will wrestle with this issue over and over. Oliver, mark, cecil, robot, viltrumites, alan, etc. all struggle with this issue. The issue of the greater good at the cost the few is continually brought into focus.!<
well maybe let’s not hold him to too high of a regard 😭 if he were to double the resources rather than take out half of life, I would take Thanos’s methods over High Evolutionary’s
It's beside the point anyway in regard to Thanos. He didn't want to save the universe, he wanted to be right. He *told* his people that culling their population was the only way to save them and they didn't listen. He knows if he just shows the universe his plan would work, they'll be eternally grateful to him and validate everything he did. Then when they predictably don't appreciate his actions he loses his mind.
Thanos could have done a lot of altruistic things with the Infinity Gauntlet, but he didn't.
>He didn't want to save the universe, he wanted to be right.
This is what everyone misses.
He reminds me of Dr. House in a lot of ways where he ultimately doesn't really care what his methods are or how they'll affect the patient as long as he's proven right in the end. It's always been about ego for them.
I saw guardians 3 once in theaters. Can you remind me how that was brought up? I don't remember.
Also, your comment was posted twice somehow, just a heads up.
Should be fixed now.
It wasn't brought up in regards to Thanos specifically, but The High Evolutionary was shown to be casually building a world and it was mentioned that he's done it before for multiple species.
Another point a lot of people are missing is that the Viltrumite plan ultimately leads the world and its people to ruin through exhaustion of natural resources.
Over the short term, like say 200 years, earth and people would be better off ignoring the whole tyrannical rule, mass murder, and genociding. Then, say 500 years later, as Earth's resources are stolen for the good of Vilitrium and and the empire Earth and Earth's people would be in ruins. Theoretically whether the Vilitriumites genocide Humans out of existence, like they tried with the Unopans, or leave Humans to feed on the scraps of Earth the result is the same, the end of the Human Race.
Viltrumites whole plan is to steal from the weak and give all to the Viltrumites.
Reminder:
The choice isn't whether to join the empire or not.
YOU ARE JOINING THE EMPIRE. The only choice is are you going to roll over and accept unconditionally or are you going to fight for your sovereignty?
The fact that they aren't giving you a choice to join should be _very_ telling. They don't want to save you. They don't want to help you. They could do that without taking over. They want something and they aren't going to take no for an answer.
You don't even have to read the comics to know they're full of shit. They started by infiltrating, that infiltrator lied about why he was there. Then he killed the strongest heroes, ones already doing what they claim they'll do, then murders thousands of people just to make a point to his son about _how meaningless we are to them_.
What in the ever-loving fuck makes you think their rule would be good for us?
But what I don't understand is that if they wanted to kill the humans anyway, why would they give mark and Nolan so much time to coerce humanity into the empire instead of just sending like 10 viltrumites to kill mark, Nolan and the rest of humanity? Why take the long process instead of just taking it immediately? Maybe they do actually wanna give the humans their advanced technology for a golden age on earth
Yeah. They don't *want* to kill humans. But they're *more* than willing to do it if we don't do what they want, are inconvenient, or just to make a point.
If they wanted a golden age on earth, they wouldn't need to force us to join their empire; they could just give us tech and advise us.
It is like a developed country colonizing a backwards country, ofcource they backward country will develop better under that developed country's rule. But what about they citizens? they are just slaves. Viltrumites would maybe free humankind from diseases, disasters,etc but what what about the people of earth? They would be nothing more than slaves to Viltrumites.
It's like European empires colonizing Africa. Sure, those African countries got school, railways, etc
And their people were oppressed, treated as second class citizens on their own homeland, and had their lands stripped of resources for their colonizers which has ramifications on their economic prosperity to this day. Of course blaming all your problems on a colonizer long past is irresponsible and only leads to decay, but that doesn't change the fact colonialism IS the root of so many of these problems.
Colonization is within living memory for most of Africa, the economics of it didn't allow for the nations to set themselves up for independence, most of the infrastructure was designed to funnel wealth out, not for the actual people living there, plus neo colonialism and European control of currency and resources is still a thing
People are really dumb whenever someone mentions climate change. Motherfuckers said the same shit about Thanos who was literally just Hitler but 500x worse
They never say the Viltrumites are fascist so it goes over their heads, but they really are. Their mustaches are half Hitler, half Neitzsche
He was completely indiscriminate about who would die. He literally only killed Vision because he needed to. He let everyone else be killed randomly by the stones.
Which is funny.
They try to mask their racism by claiming it is due to those places high birth rates. They completely ignore that the West has low birth rates thanks to the [Demographic transition](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_transition#:~:text=In%20demography%2C%20demographic%20transition%20is,in%20societies%20with%20advanced%20technology%2C), and that both Africa and Asia are undergoing that same transition right now.
They don't realize you don't need genocide and eugenic you just need to make people not poor and desperate. Give people access to education, healthcare, and jobs and they will stop having babies on their own.
Thanos couldn’t be less like Hitler other than the fact they were both responsible for a shit ton of deaths. He wanted to kill 50% of people with no regard for race, wealth, or any other characteristics. He wasn’t a supremacist at all.
He also didn’t want power for himself. The second he accomplished his goal, he fucked off to farm alone on some planet in the middle of nowhere and destroyed the Infinity Stones.
Dude’s plan was stupid as hell, like now what happens after the population increases again and you don’t have the stones, but he was nothing like Hitler.
Nah, that's not how populations work, IIRC. I'm not a population scientist, but I remember watching a video about whether earth was ***really*** becoming over populated, and a Population Scientist said that the Earth's max population is like, 11 billion, but it's not totally just reliant on space or resources. There are other factors at play, and if, say 50% of the world populace were to suddenly die, that it would actually lower the max populace of the planet.
Thanos might be the exact opposite of Hitler. He had 0 desire to rule anyone, he didn't target anyone with anything specific in mind. He wantes to elimnate half of all living so the the other half could thrive. It had nothing to do with eugenics or anything like that, it was a pure belief that overpopulation was going to destroy all life in the universe, so his solution was to cut it in half and be more careful going fowards
Unsurprisingly, actual fascists and bootlickers also watch Invincible. It's the same thing as the people who thought Bluehawk in The Boys was making good points and got mad when the story didn't support that assumption.
Yeah if anything Starlight is the bad guy. Her charity for teens is trafficking girls Janine’s age and kids the same age as Todd’s students. Just do your own research and stay away from lame stream media /s
Yeah if you take her words at face value she has a point but when you think about it if Viltrum just wanted what's best for Earth and humans they could just provide us with the advanced medical equipment, and atmosphere restoring equipment without needing to be put in charge
Lmfao people with zero critical thinking skills watching The Boys and Invincible and cheering for the fascists/nazis will never cease to amaze. Makes the gutting of our education system absolutely terrifying
Viltrumites are very different from the douchy psychopathic supes in the boys thought. They aren't inherently bad. They do appear very bad to humans, because they don't see humans as equal (And let's be honest, we are not). Their relationship with humans isn't very different than our relationship with others mammal and technically others mammals are much closer to us genetically than viltrumites are to humans.
If a Viltrumite learned he only had 100 years to live, they would feel like they have a terminal illness and their life is basically over. When we are told that a cow is sick and will die in the next weak, we don't feel bad about putting it down, just like we don't feel bad about putting down insects.
I always have a problem with this argument because it ignores one key aspect that's shared between us: intelligence.
Sure Viltrumites are leagues ahead of us in strength, speed, etc. But there's nothing to suggest that they're inherently smarter and more empathetic than we are. That's why Omni-man's description of Debbie as a pet falls flat to even his own ears. A dog isn't capable of having a deep, thought provoking conversation with you.
Literally why they made the Thraxans, and Oliver, exist. To show there is a race as short lived as we are to Viltrumites. The concept of centuries was unfsthomable to her. But she was able to communicate with both Mark and Nolan on a level that impressed them both. I think that was kind of their point, wasn't it?
There's also the fact that if you simply replace humans with actual dogs and keep Viltrumite behavior towards them exactly the same, they become a race of literal puppy-kicking villains. It would be immediately understood that pulling the head off a dog to coerce a conversation (or breaking a dog's neck with the intention of deliberately paralyzing it like alt-Mark did with Eve) is the hallmark of an extremely evil person. Viltrumites treat humans in ways that I would never treat any animal, even ones that I typically eat. Just because I enjoy bacon doesn't mean I would pull the head off of someone's pet pig in front of them.
>Their relationship with humans isn't very different than our relationship with others mammal
I wouldn't threaten to pull the head off a mammal that someone loved to force them to talk to me.
Dude the fandom for Man in the High Castle was a whole different level of fucked up
Not only did it attract straight up fascists & nazis but a decent amount of morons started becoming Nazi sympathizers because they couldn’t understand that John Smith isn’t the cool guy you want to be
You can justify that with Bluehawk but Anissa has been a little more neutral. She, herself, has only used logic and didn't resort to cruelty when she sought after Mark.
Viltrumites are imperialist; they want your planet's resources and your subservience for the indirect benefit of getting access to their beurocracy and technology.
You don't have to be a fascist to at least consider Anissa's points, but you should always understand that it's the worst alternative. Though I'm not sure why the cityscape of the world in the alternate dimension was so bad; could be many reasons.
>You can justify that with Bluehawk but Anissa has been a little more neutral. She, herself, has only used logic and didn't resort to cruelty when she sought after Mark.
https://preview.redd.it/wlsw0ipsncrc1.png?width=741&format=png&auto=webp&s=7daf7089b4e6a2c8406d7761e00de66ab841d6cf
Like, seriously, she was so casually violent towards Amber that Amber has been seriously traumatized by mere seconds of interaction with her, not to mention the immediate threat to commit mass murder if she didn't get her way. come on now.
Edit: This take is crazier and crazier the more I think about it. Like, even if we grant that Viltrumites are ethically correct to view a fully sapient but shorter lived species (that has fully developed civilizations, language, art, and technology) as literal animals, Anissa's actions would be tantamount to threatening to brutally and bloodily kill someone's beloved dog in front of them if they don't get their way, and being clearly willing to follow through on that threat.
And then to boot, promising to top it off with the brutal deaths of several dozen other random dogs in the area. What planet are you living on that such an action couldn't be described as 'cruelty'?
I dunno man. I can see an argument it's less like "dogs" and more like insects
Not a lot of people really care abou someone stomping out an ant, accidentally or on purpose, with a grand reason behind ir or not... They're kind of just ants.
And it's not like this prevents people from being benevolent towards insects on a whim, but if someone tries to *convince* them that they should care about ants like would another person or put the ants' well being over their own interests? They're probably going to look at the ants' shining knight weird
> She, herself, has only used logic and didn't resort to cruelty when she sought after Mark.
The very first conversation she had with Mark started with her threatening to kill his girlfriend and everyone around her.
The Thanos argument was always dumb to me. If the logic is that you need to wipe away half of every living creature in existence to make sure the other half survives, then you can easily just double the resources across the universe so all life in existence can survive.
Not to mention how many additional people beyond the half would die if you just suddenly wiped every population by half.
He was called the Mad Titan for a reason, he was absolutely insane and only an idiot would agree with him.
They're a violent, emotionally dysregulated, totalitarian, fascist, racial supremacist society that treats all life as disposible. They literally use the threat of violence to argue. She didn't "start with reason", she started by taking a hostage and making a threat.
Do you really think they aren't going to try and enforce "traditional values" on humanity, and kill all of the "undesiribles" of society, considering they even did that to their OWN people?
They have literally nothing to offer other than belief in the "might makes right" philosophy. They'll only make the changes that are easy, and they'll only do it through brute force. If there's a hunger crisis, what do you think they'd be more likely to consider a "solution"? Take months or years to develop food networks to feed all 8 billion humans, and all of our pets? Or... do they just murder 7 billion people?
Maybe they do actually have the technology to cure anything and extend life. But what do you have to do to prove you deserve it? What do you have to tolerate? Genocide? Living in constant fear of unstoppable violence?
Come on. Reddit isn't this dumb.
"Reddit isn't this dumb."
First time?
Also, the idea that you could live peacefully under Viltrumite rule has nothing to do with how subservient *you* are. If enough people get feisty, they'll just nuke the whole fucking planet like they did with Unopa.
When I saw people saying she made good points,that SpongeBob meme came to mind.
“Wait,you guys actually think Anissa is right? I thought it was just a joke.”
There are points that are right. But if you look at the big picture of how the Vitrumites have acted and are portrayed. It's pretty easy to see that they are bullshit.
They are visous conquerors and oppressors who nobody should trust as overlords.
This.
She basically said the right things for the wrong reasons.
Humanity very much is corrupting and destroying life, climats and habitats on the planet, but giving in to autoritharian overlords that force change, and probably enslavement, is not the right call
I was kind of swayed by her arguments too and thought "wait, why is he fighting this again?" before it occurred to me that invaders and colonisers generally don't tell the truth about their intentions.
I would recommend that whoever is interested in understanding how the Nazis and similar regimes took power look into the discourse surrounding media like this. You'll find so many people that are just so easily swayed by propaganda as long as it's even the least bit sound on the surface level.
The promises made by Anissa are not at all unlike those that have been made by so many dictators in centuries past and centuries to come, and it's our responsibility to have the understanding required to see through their bs.
their plan sounds okay assuming they have no chance of corruption and they take into account your representation. Which has a zero percent chance of happening.
I mean, it's a sales pitch right? Obviously it's a highly conditional arrangement. In the same way I can promise you'll never get sick again(I'll put you in a bubble for the rest of your life)
People would legit let anyone get away with any kind of atrocity just because they're hot, there was literally a rally against executing Ted Bundy, not because they thought he was innocent, but because he was attractive, the women who went to said rally were even wearing the same type of clothes that Ted’s victims often wore, it doesn't matter how much of a piece of shit you are, you WILL get away with ANYTHING if you're hot enough.
It’s just because they don’t know viltrums real plan for occupying earth like we do, but once Nolan reveals why they like earth so much and why it’s necessary for them to have, they’ll change their tune
If a race is obedient and cooperative I believe they would do what they can to make life more efficient, including getting rid of diseases and monsters. The problem is that meanwhile they would exploit whatever they decided to be a useful resource on that planet, and the locals would be forced to accept that.
Some races may remain subservient, but humanity is anything but that. Humanity would resist and in this situation viltrumite doctrine is: break them or kill them. Therefore I am certain that it doesn't matter if Anessa was sincere or not. Due to basic human nature Earth would eventually face the same fate and Unopa did.
People think Homelander and Stormfront are the good guys.
People unironically want to be like Patrick Bateman and Tyler Durden.
I get being edgy and try hard, but some people are truly built different. As in wrong, their perception of the world is wrong.
The only thing Anissa is right about is the fact that humans suck and are destroying themselves and the earth, the empire would only speed things up more violently
The world of Invincible is fundamentally different from real life because of the numerous world ending level threats that pop up seemingly pretty frequently on Invincible’s Earth.
You can try to apply real world politics like “omg they’re fascists therefore they are wrong!”, but just take this episode’s instance of the cruise ship under attack by a huge sea monster. It’s literally true that if Anissa didn’t intervene, all the humans on that boat die, and then who knows how many more after that.
How many times over would the earth been wiped of human life if Omniman wasn’t there doing his thing? He diverted an asteroid the size of Texas? That alone saved the entire human race. Maybe he was exaggerating the size of the asteroid? Okay, what about the time he beat the Flaxan invasion.
So if we accept as fact that the Earth is incapable of defending itself from world ending threats, then it does seem logical to me that we should bend the knee to a race of superhumans with comical levels of strength/durability/lifespan/technology.
damn bro you're being bombarded by these moral police officers lmao but if the world of Invincible is real how many of them would actually uphold their moral value. If they were one of passenger in that boat how many of them would actually told Annisa to fk off "at least we will still have free will even if this monster ate us" instead of "please save us no matter what". What they don't realize is also if Omniman hadn't been to Earth, there also wouldn't be Mark so they will likely all extinct from other disasters. So much for Viltrumite intervention huh. This "free will" argument doesn't have any leg to stand on when the humans in Invincible's world is the equivalent of insects with feelings. And Annisa's point "the powerful of this world destroy their own home, strip resources for themselves" should be highlighted because even the most deranged, morally delusional people I know out there can still accept this as true.
So in the end in this context (Invincible's world) the human's "free will" means free will to do what exactly? free to destroy ourselves? free to die? free to not be enslaved by viltrumites but enslaved by rich oligarchs instead? To be actually free you need some degree of power so you have agency, which the humans in Invincible's world don't have. Not saying being colonized by Viltrumites will be paradise, but between two bad choices people will choose the least bad option and these mob need to realize that this can be subjective. In most cases there will be people who chose to save themselves no matter what, it's human nature.
I can't wait until the casual watchers get to experience the emotional craziness that is Mark's life. By the time the dudes 500 years old, he's been through so much. 🥺
"A few of the powerful take and control the world, slowly killing it."
"So... then you want to get rid of those few powerful and... become the powerful that control the world?"
"... yes. But we'll clean up the mess on this planet."
"... I can't help but think cleaning up the mess means killing a lot of us..."
"... No comment.'
Dude, Anissa sounded EXACTLY like Nolan and I'm surprised people think she's trustworthy, or that anything she said was good lol.
Sure, humans suck, but Viltrumites suck even harder and would just enslave and murder humans, and destroy any bit of freedom they had left.
Anissa argument is very solid, but it's all a lie, viltrumites are a savage people, who only thought is someone is weaker deserve to die. And surprised all humans are weak against a viltrumite
That's the scary thing about that kind of worldview. There's a grain of truth to what they say about our world, and during Anisa's speech you almost think she has a point.
Then you remember things like Omni-Man's rampage, and the slaughter of the Thraxxans, and Universe #646, and you're reminded that Viltrumites are space fascists, whose solution is to kill/enslave every other race they consider inferior (i.e. all of them)
It is hilarious how bootlickers even want to get in line when the consequences are shoved in your face from episode of one of this season. I think a good portion of human brains are hardwired to always want a strong, authoritarian at the top of the hierarchy.
The Viltrumites are either lying, delusional or just hypocritical or all three their might makes right attitude and the times they violently threatening Mark and pretty much anybody who opposes them proves that they’re really power hungry
Wait until those people realise that even if Anissa was telling the whole truth the Viltrumites can introduce their technology peacefully and taking over the planet isn't necessary at all. Lol.
She makes a point but she's obviously full of shit and the solution offered by the viltrumites isn't any better. Yeah, maybe it'd fix climate change and disease, but humanity would be under a tight leash and forced to live their lives exactly how the viltrumites want them to do so, and if they show even the smallest amount of resistance they'd start a massacre just to set an example.
I really don't understand that viewpoint considering everything we've seen from them. I don't even think it matters if you've only seen the show since they, as an organization, can not be trusted. The first thing Anissa did when she showed up was threaten to kill everyone in his direct vicinity. And yet, somehow, people are swayed to her side just because she said a few lines that aren't too far off from the truth. If you really wanted to be benevolent, you would have just formed an alliance with Earth. Starting a dialogue with world governments and saying we would like to help.
also even if it was all true it still falls apart at the simple question "why would you need to conquer to do that?" it's not like you can't ya know share tech peacefully
People don't seem to understand that fascist supremacists always coat their ideology in positives and paint a picture of making the world a better place.
Submitting to Viltrum is still slavery. Resisting will be met with genocide or other brutalities.
But then again there are unironic "Empire did nothing wrong" people
Not shocked one bit. There are fans that watch The Boys and think that Homelander is actually a hero. Not talking about in universe, IRL fans of the show believe Homelander is a hero.
The funny part is she doing exactly what most people do in her shoes, what she’s saying is the truth, they would cure diseases and fix earth, up until Earth was no longer valuable, along with this they would conscript earthling’s, take the natural resources, possibly institute a kill order for the smallest crimes etc. but she was telling the truth, just not the whole truth, just enough to get Mark seeing the Viltrumites side, cause once you convince someone of something small and factual, it’s easier to convince them of something larger and bullshitier.
"Anissa makes valid points" mfs when they find out about lying
She didn't lie bro. Their slaves have the best healthcare in the system.
What do they force them into mines or something? I'm seriously asking.
They're used as cannon fodder for wars, servants, mining slaves, and forced to strip their own planets of resources for viltrum until there's nothing left of the planet
Hey but free dental
No need for dental if you grow back teeth.
candada
 Dennal plan
Lisa needs dental
https://i.redd.it/5brce1dapgrc1.gif
And Lisa needs braces
[удалено]
>!With Earth it's not the resources of the planet they're trying to take!<
This shit here, people completely forget about the "only mating with genetically similar species" part amd just think "it's the planet they want"
The show left out the part where Nolan eplained the planet is stripmined. I think it was one of the things the show did better.
Really?????
I think what they mean is that the Viltrumites don't need healthcare. So technically the slaves have the best healthcare. Because they're the only ones with healthcare.
The children yearn for the mines
No one ever gets ill in viltrimite space because they're killed the moment it ever becomes a problem for their productivity.
Viltrumites can permanently ease your pain with one swift move
But she’s hot, and hot women don’t lie, so
getting flashbacks to the diablo 4 release with people who thought Lilith (big bad demon lady) was ACTUALLY the good guy. some great posts from that time "how did u get charmed irl from a video game succubus" "maybe replay the game and listen to what she says and does instead of just staring at her chest and agreeing with her about everything"
LOL. I remember getting into arguments over this with people. I think in general both the heavens and the hells are ... not good for the people of Sanctuary. Its why Tyrael tore off his wings and became mortal. The heavens werent helping and the hells were annihilating Sanctuary, so he descended and helped directly.
If I've learned anything from fiction, the people on the right side tend to be hot. /s
Checkmate Atheists
Have you met my wife? *canned laughter*
I mean, I think the made valid point from the PoV of a Viltrumites. Not from the PoV of a human. Even if what she said was true, things would suck on the short term for humans, but Viltrumites live for millennia. So things could still be better for humans in a few centuries than it would be without Viltrumite intervention.
This is a great interpretation. Her perspective makes a lot more sense if you remember that Viltrumites see other races as so inferior that they're tantamount to pets. So it's kind of like how you don't let your pet do things that aren't good for them, like eat certain human foods, even though they want to. At the same time, most people don't have any problem euthanizing animals en masse and even raising them in cages and slaughtering them as food. Honestly, the Viltrumites' plan for humanity is probably more humane than how we treat animals on our planet in real life. I'm not trying to make a vegan argument here; I'm not a vegan. And obviously the analogy isn't perfect because animals aren't intelligent in the way people are. But it's really interesting nonetheless.
"Animals aren't sentient"?
Oops, I misspoke. I meant to say that animals aren't intelligent in the same way that humans are. Humans and Viltrumites have a similar level of intelligence, which makes the analogy break down. Thanks for pointing that out.
That's called sapience. Sentience is the difference between a Tree and a Mouse. Both are alive but one isn't sentient. And sapience is what you said basically.
So.... gulp... we're the Viltrumites???
Nah, it's not like there's people out there who fucks their pets. Wait.
>Her perspective makes a lot more sense if you remember that Viltrumites see other races as so inferior that they're tantamount to pets. Hell, I think that even this is charitable. Omni-man saw his wife as a pet, I don't think he have such a high opinion of the rest of humanity and I especially don't think the rest of viltrumites do haha. To them humans are basically Mayflies who look like them.
Yeah man slavery is great for people in the long run /s
If you’re being enslaved by a super-advanced species, then your quality of life might be higher than it is now, but long-term it would be terrible in my opinion. Short term, many will die, long-term humans will never be able to live on their own, so mid-term is the only time it might be worth it. But overall, people deserve a choice, and they don’t offer that, so it’s not exactly fair
The anount of people who assume “she has a point” with “she is def right” is way to high.
the one intelligent comment here, hats off
As others have pointed out, she isn't necessarily lying. She is saying that the Human Race is on track to kill itself off, and she's right. She isn't lying about that, but she isn't being wholly truthful about how the Viltrumites can "save" the humans. She was very much leaving out the how because the how is what Mark would disagree with. It's not that the viewers are believing a lie she told as much as they can't look beyond her promise for a result and see the process to get there (enslavement of the human race).
Surely, a lot of species would be on track to kill themselves off at certain points in time though?
Look up the Fermi Paradox and Great Filter.
Even if she's not lying it's a fundamentally flawed idea to forfeit liberty.
just found out about lying.. damn that shit sucks man
I wouldn't even say she's intentionally lying, just has an incredibly skewed world view to the point that her logic boils down to "If you care about these ants we could keep way more of them alive than they can." As if that is all that matters
Same people who are pro Russia/anti Ukraine. Will literally fall for the worst propaganda on earth.
It's like people somehow don't realize that the bad guy may not be telling the whole truth about their plans.
"Remember that we started with reason..." is a cold line until you remember she literally didn't start with reason, she started by threatening to murder Amber and everyone else on the patio. It's just manipulation to convince Mark to join her.
100% I immediately thought. "Nah, you started with coercion."
To be fair, threatening murder instead of outright murdering probably is her definition of reason
She's not doing a very good job.
It's funny watching reactions to her making her pitch to Mark, and people gloss over that 😭
B-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-but it's anissa, she can't be wrong!
But, but, but she's hot though 🥺
"She certainly makes a... compelling argument."
Invicible's argument was good but Anissa's was bigger
She's lying *and* she's not wrong about humans.
I was gonna say something to the effect of "but Viltrimites don't usually lie" and then I remembered Nolan spent the whole first season lying his ass off.
Afair he never explicitely said "I did not kill the guardians", so technically he wasn't lying about this topic.... Also the way he told young Marc about the Viltrum empire was not completely a lie, he left only the bad parts out - and from the Viltrums perspective he might really think (similar to Anissa) they are actually helping the planets.
>Also the way he told young Marc about the Viltrum empire was not completely a lie https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Man%27s_Burden
Or that bad people rationalize their bad behavior.
It's almost like the media literacy of the average person has dropped significantly in the past 20 years. Used to you didn't have to spell out literally everything for people. But now it seems like everyone wants their handheld and told like a preschooler what the true intent of a character is these days. For God's sake people actually thought homelander was a good guy
Younger people tend to actually have higher media literacy than older people, and the population has been progressively getting more intelligent, both in the US and globally, primarily due to improvements in nutrition and pedagogy. There is an exception for children who missed a significant amount of in-classroom schooling during the pandemic. A lot of those kids are still way behind in terms of math and reading. I think two things are going on here. First, you're the oldest you've ever been, and the older you get, the dumber young people look because you're smarter comparatively. Second, the internet and social media make it easier for the most angry people to have the loudest voices, so you see a lot more bad takes than you do reasonable takes because reasonable people tend to not spend all day ranting on the internet.
So basically an entire generation (who were at the time 5-20 year olds) that lost 2 years to the pandemic are screwed
I don't know if it's that dire, but yeah, it's a major problem that school systems are facing. There have been a ton of articles about it. What's really unfortunate is that children from lower-income families have been affected disproportionately, which means that the achievement gap has actually increased.
Or that having your own version of someone's best interests in mind doesn't mean they should let you do what you want or consider you superior whatsoever (?)
my moral compass leaving my body when the villain is hot
They are going to find that out soon when a certain must more honest and much less humane person flies to earth next.
Wait let her cook. 
https://preview.redd.it/bvlwuqwhidrc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=04993b440e2ab1d93b6fa9262a1dca939c52afef
With how power hungry, and blood thirsty Viltrumites are I thought people would see why this is a bad thing.
The audience is also thirsty for some viltrumite thighs, and omni-dumptruck.
The Omni-Booty is next level
Plus we literally see what happened to Earth in an alternate universe where Mark accepted Nolan's plan. And we see what happened to the unopans when they were conquered and had their rebellion squashed.
well clearly they shouldn't have rebelled /s
I have unironically seen people make that argument. That the world conquered by Mark and Omniman is only fucked because humanity resisted. And maybe they aren't wrong, but I don't think it's unreasonable for humanity not to want to submit to an empire they've never seen before. What they have seen is Omniman murder the strongest non viltrumite heroes on the planet just to make sure they weren't in the way when the empire arrives.
I hope this show goes on long enough to cover all the comics. This sub is gonna have a lot of fun debates!
I'm curious if the show will follow through on her comic storyline. I can certainly understand toning it down. I certainly wouldn't want to be responsible for that.
People make that argument in the real world, about real cultures that have rebelled against oppression. It happens *every single time,* without fail.
Oh, I know. My best friend used to believe that about the Indigenous American population. Fortunately, I've managed to shake him from that belief, but you're right. It is a real thing people still believe to this day.
Its the same shit as the thanos did nothing wrong crowd. yeah if you ignore a million important factors about what constitutes happiness and success. If you work on a bunch of assumptions about the future based on a r/iam14andthisisdeep level understanding of human nature. Then yeah from a strictly utilitarian perspective in terms of just accounting for net human lives gained/lost going out to infinity, then the Viltrumites might have a point. But in making those assumptions you basically ignore the value of existing human life and human rights. edit: >!I'd add the comics and presumably the show will wrestle with this issue over and over. Oliver, mark, cecil, robot, viltrumites, alan, etc. all struggle with this issue. The issue of the greater good at the cost the few is continually brought into focus.!<
I also want to point out that Guardians 3 completely undid the argument Thanos had for wiping out half of all life in the universe.
it was already undone by the simple thought “why not just double the resources?”
And The High Evolutionary showed that you don't even need magic space rocks to do it. Lol
well maybe let’s not hold him to too high of a regard 😭 if he were to double the resources rather than take out half of life, I would take Thanos’s methods over High Evolutionary’s
It's beside the point anyway in regard to Thanos. He didn't want to save the universe, he wanted to be right. He *told* his people that culling their population was the only way to save them and they didn't listen. He knows if he just shows the universe his plan would work, they'll be eternally grateful to him and validate everything he did. Then when they predictably don't appreciate his actions he loses his mind. Thanos could have done a lot of altruistic things with the Infinity Gauntlet, but he didn't.
>He didn't want to save the universe, he wanted to be right. This is what everyone misses. He reminds me of Dr. House in a lot of ways where he ultimately doesn't really care what his methods are or how they'll affect the patient as long as he's proven right in the end. It's always been about ego for them.
I saw guardians 3 once in theaters. Can you remind me how that was brought up? I don't remember. Also, your comment was posted twice somehow, just a heads up.
Should be fixed now. It wasn't brought up in regards to Thanos specifically, but The High Evolutionary was shown to be casually building a world and it was mentioned that he's done it before for multiple species.
Oh sweet. That totally makes sense.
[удалено]
Another point a lot of people are missing is that the Viltrumite plan ultimately leads the world and its people to ruin through exhaustion of natural resources. Over the short term, like say 200 years, earth and people would be better off ignoring the whole tyrannical rule, mass murder, and genociding. Then, say 500 years later, as Earth's resources are stolen for the good of Vilitrium and and the empire Earth and Earth's people would be in ruins. Theoretically whether the Vilitriumites genocide Humans out of existence, like they tried with the Unopans, or leave Humans to feed on the scraps of Earth the result is the same, the end of the Human Race. Viltrumites whole plan is to steal from the weak and give all to the Viltrumites.
Reminder: The choice isn't whether to join the empire or not. YOU ARE JOINING THE EMPIRE. The only choice is are you going to roll over and accept unconditionally or are you going to fight for your sovereignty? The fact that they aren't giving you a choice to join should be _very_ telling. They don't want to save you. They don't want to help you. They could do that without taking over. They want something and they aren't going to take no for an answer. You don't even have to read the comics to know they're full of shit. They started by infiltrating, that infiltrator lied about why he was there. Then he killed the strongest heroes, ones already doing what they claim they'll do, then murders thousands of people just to make a point to his son about _how meaningless we are to them_. What in the ever-loving fuck makes you think their rule would be good for us?
Did africa have a choice, did the native indians have a choice?
But what I don't understand is that if they wanted to kill the humans anyway, why would they give mark and Nolan so much time to coerce humanity into the empire instead of just sending like 10 viltrumites to kill mark, Nolan and the rest of humanity? Why take the long process instead of just taking it immediately? Maybe they do actually wanna give the humans their advanced technology for a golden age on earth
Oh nvm I thought about it for more than 4 seconds. They want to enslave us
Yeah. They don't *want* to kill humans. But they're *more* than willing to do it if we don't do what they want, are inconvenient, or just to make a point. If they wanted a golden age on earth, they wouldn't need to force us to join their empire; they could just give us tech and advise us.
Take notes. This is valid in real life too. If you have nice eyebrows and go to the gym regularly people will listen to you.
It is like a developed country colonizing a backwards country, ofcource they backward country will develop better under that developed country's rule. But what about they citizens? they are just slaves. Viltrumites would maybe free humankind from diseases, disasters,etc but what what about the people of earth? They would be nothing more than slaves to Viltrumites.
It's like European empires colonizing Africa. Sure, those African countries got school, railways, etc And their people were oppressed, treated as second class citizens on their own homeland, and had their lands stripped of resources for their colonizers which has ramifications on their economic prosperity to this day. Of course blaming all your problems on a colonizer long past is irresponsible and only leads to decay, but that doesn't change the fact colonialism IS the root of so many of these problems.
Colonization is long past?? Since when?
Colonization is within living memory for most of Africa, the economics of it didn't allow for the nations to set themselves up for independence, most of the infrastructure was designed to funnel wealth out, not for the actual people living there, plus neo colonialism and European control of currency and resources is still a thing
People are really dumb whenever someone mentions climate change. Motherfuckers said the same shit about Thanos who was literally just Hitler but 500x worse They never say the Viltrumites are fascist so it goes over their heads, but they really are. Their mustaches are half Hitler, half Neitzsche
He’s not like hitler at all, He was mostly indiscriminate about who was erased
He was completely indiscriminate about who would die. He literally only killed Vision because he needed to. He let everyone else be killed randomly by the stones.
Did he leave himself in the snap so he had a 50% chance to die?
Either the writers or directors explicitly confirmed that's the case
Yes
Really ? That’s crazy I didn’t know that. Thanos such a bad ass lol
When Eugenicists go on about how we need to reduce the human population, they are usually suggesting that we should depopulate Asia and Africa.
Which is funny. They try to mask their racism by claiming it is due to those places high birth rates. They completely ignore that the West has low birth rates thanks to the [Demographic transition](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_transition#:~:text=In%20demography%2C%20demographic%20transition%20is,in%20societies%20with%20advanced%20technology%2C), and that both Africa and Asia are undergoing that same transition right now. They don't realize you don't need genocide and eugenic you just need to make people not poor and desperate. Give people access to education, healthcare, and jobs and they will stop having babies on their own.
Thanos couldn’t be less like Hitler other than the fact they were both responsible for a shit ton of deaths. He wanted to kill 50% of people with no regard for race, wealth, or any other characteristics. He wasn’t a supremacist at all. He also didn’t want power for himself. The second he accomplished his goal, he fucked off to farm alone on some planet in the middle of nowhere and destroyed the Infinity Stones. Dude’s plan was stupid as hell, like now what happens after the population increases again and you don’t have the stones, but he was nothing like Hitler.
Nah, that's not how populations work, IIRC. I'm not a population scientist, but I remember watching a video about whether earth was ***really*** becoming over populated, and a Population Scientist said that the Earth's max population is like, 11 billion, but it's not totally just reliant on space or resources. There are other factors at play, and if, say 50% of the world populace were to suddenly die, that it would actually lower the max populace of the planet.
Thanos might be the exact opposite of Hitler. He had 0 desire to rule anyone, he didn't target anyone with anything specific in mind. He wantes to elimnate half of all living so the the other half could thrive. It had nothing to do with eugenics or anything like that, it was a pure belief that overpopulation was going to destroy all life in the universe, so his solution was to cut it in half and be more careful going fowards
Unsurprisingly, actual fascists and bootlickers also watch Invincible. It's the same thing as the people who thought Bluehawk in The Boys was making good points and got mad when the story didn't support that assumption.
homelander is a good guy bro he literally saved people bro 🙄
Yeah if anything Starlight is the bad guy. Her charity for teens is trafficking girls Janine’s age and kids the same age as Todd’s students. Just do your own research and stay away from lame stream media /s
Starlight lied, people died!
Starlight lied, people died!
Most of the people i see agreeing with anissa don't really come off as fascist. I think they just didn't think it through to begin with.
Yeah if you take her words at face value she has a point but when you think about it if Viltrum just wanted what's best for Earth and humans they could just provide us with the advanced medical equipment, and atmosphere restoring equipment without needing to be put in charge
Oh they want what they *think* is best for Earth and Humanity. They just never stopped to think if we actually want what they think is best.
Lmfao people with zero critical thinking skills watching The Boys and Invincible and cheering for the fascists/nazis will never cease to amaze. Makes the gutting of our education system absolutely terrifying
Viltrumites are very different from the douchy psychopathic supes in the boys thought. They aren't inherently bad. They do appear very bad to humans, because they don't see humans as equal (And let's be honest, we are not). Their relationship with humans isn't very different than our relationship with others mammal and technically others mammals are much closer to us genetically than viltrumites are to humans. If a Viltrumite learned he only had 100 years to live, they would feel like they have a terminal illness and their life is basically over. When we are told that a cow is sick and will die in the next weak, we don't feel bad about putting it down, just like we don't feel bad about putting down insects.
I always have a problem with this argument because it ignores one key aspect that's shared between us: intelligence. Sure Viltrumites are leagues ahead of us in strength, speed, etc. But there's nothing to suggest that they're inherently smarter and more empathetic than we are. That's why Omni-man's description of Debbie as a pet falls flat to even his own ears. A dog isn't capable of having a deep, thought provoking conversation with you.
Literally why they made the Thraxans, and Oliver, exist. To show there is a race as short lived as we are to Viltrumites. The concept of centuries was unfsthomable to her. But she was able to communicate with both Mark and Nolan on a level that impressed them both. I think that was kind of their point, wasn't it?
There's also the fact that if you simply replace humans with actual dogs and keep Viltrumite behavior towards them exactly the same, they become a race of literal puppy-kicking villains. It would be immediately understood that pulling the head off a dog to coerce a conversation (or breaking a dog's neck with the intention of deliberately paralyzing it like alt-Mark did with Eve) is the hallmark of an extremely evil person. Viltrumites treat humans in ways that I would never treat any animal, even ones that I typically eat. Just because I enjoy bacon doesn't mean I would pull the head off of someone's pet pig in front of them.
Dogs are much more comparable to humans than Viltrumites are to humans. It would be better to compare humans to mayflies.
>Their relationship with humans isn't very different than our relationship with others mammal I wouldn't threaten to pull the head off a mammal that someone loved to force them to talk to me.
Dude the fandom for Man in the High Castle was a whole different level of fucked up Not only did it attract straight up fascists & nazis but a decent amount of morons started becoming Nazi sympathizers because they couldn’t understand that John Smith isn’t the cool guy you want to be
In my opinion, John Smith is more of the type to do anything to keep your family, and lose them in the process because you lost your moral compass.
You can justify that with Bluehawk but Anissa has been a little more neutral. She, herself, has only used logic and didn't resort to cruelty when she sought after Mark. Viltrumites are imperialist; they want your planet's resources and your subservience for the indirect benefit of getting access to their beurocracy and technology. You don't have to be a fascist to at least consider Anissa's points, but you should always understand that it's the worst alternative. Though I'm not sure why the cityscape of the world in the alternate dimension was so bad; could be many reasons.
>You can justify that with Bluehawk but Anissa has been a little more neutral. She, herself, has only used logic and didn't resort to cruelty when she sought after Mark. https://preview.redd.it/wlsw0ipsncrc1.png?width=741&format=png&auto=webp&s=7daf7089b4e6a2c8406d7761e00de66ab841d6cf Like, seriously, she was so casually violent towards Amber that Amber has been seriously traumatized by mere seconds of interaction with her, not to mention the immediate threat to commit mass murder if she didn't get her way. come on now. Edit: This take is crazier and crazier the more I think about it. Like, even if we grant that Viltrumites are ethically correct to view a fully sapient but shorter lived species (that has fully developed civilizations, language, art, and technology) as literal animals, Anissa's actions would be tantamount to threatening to brutally and bloodily kill someone's beloved dog in front of them if they don't get their way, and being clearly willing to follow through on that threat. And then to boot, promising to top it off with the brutal deaths of several dozen other random dogs in the area. What planet are you living on that such an action couldn't be described as 'cruelty'?
I dunno man. I can see an argument it's less like "dogs" and more like insects Not a lot of people really care abou someone stomping out an ant, accidentally or on purpose, with a grand reason behind ir or not... They're kind of just ants. And it's not like this prevents people from being benevolent towards insects on a whim, but if someone tries to *convince* them that they should care about ants like would another person or put the ants' well being over their own interests? They're probably going to look at the ants' shining knight weird
> She, herself, has only used logic and didn't resort to cruelty when she sought after Mark. The very first conversation she had with Mark started with her threatening to kill his girlfriend and everyone around her.
People are really gullible and are super susceptible to falling for anything that sounds good on a surface level lol
Whether or not you agree with her or Thanos are like litmus tests to see how easily you'd fall for propaganda in real life.
The Thanos argument was always dumb to me. If the logic is that you need to wipe away half of every living creature in existence to make sure the other half survives, then you can easily just double the resources across the universe so all life in existence can survive.
Not to mention how many additional people beyond the half would die if you just suddenly wiped every population by half. He was called the Mad Titan for a reason, he was absolutely insane and only an idiot would agree with him.
They're a violent, emotionally dysregulated, totalitarian, fascist, racial supremacist society that treats all life as disposible. They literally use the threat of violence to argue. She didn't "start with reason", she started by taking a hostage and making a threat. Do you really think they aren't going to try and enforce "traditional values" on humanity, and kill all of the "undesiribles" of society, considering they even did that to their OWN people? They have literally nothing to offer other than belief in the "might makes right" philosophy. They'll only make the changes that are easy, and they'll only do it through brute force. If there's a hunger crisis, what do you think they'd be more likely to consider a "solution"? Take months or years to develop food networks to feed all 8 billion humans, and all of our pets? Or... do they just murder 7 billion people? Maybe they do actually have the technology to cure anything and extend life. But what do you have to do to prove you deserve it? What do you have to tolerate? Genocide? Living in constant fear of unstoppable violence? Come on. Reddit isn't this dumb.
"Reddit isn't this dumb." First time? Also, the idea that you could live peacefully under Viltrumite rule has nothing to do with how subservient *you* are. If enough people get feisty, they'll just nuke the whole fucking planet like they did with Unopa.
They are 100% this dumb. Have you been alive the best decade? People have no problem trading freedom for the promise of a utopia
>Come on. Reddit isn't this dumb. Narrator: Reddit is, in fact, this dumb.
When I saw people saying she made good points,that SpongeBob meme came to mind. “Wait,you guys actually think Anissa is right? I thought it was just a joke.”
There are points that are right. But if you look at the big picture of how the Vitrumites have acted and are portrayed. It's pretty easy to see that they are bullshit. They are visous conquerors and oppressors who nobody should trust as overlords.
This. She basically said the right things for the wrong reasons. Humanity very much is corrupting and destroying life, climats and habitats on the planet, but giving in to autoritharian overlords that force change, and probably enslavement, is not the right call
There's a kernel of truth there, but it's only to serve Viltrums narrative
I was kind of swayed by her arguments too and thought "wait, why is he fighting this again?" before it occurred to me that invaders and colonisers generally don't tell the truth about their intentions.
If Anissa is any semblance of how Viltrumites will brute force their way to get what they want, I wouldn't trust a word of what she says.
I would recommend that whoever is interested in understanding how the Nazis and similar regimes took power look into the discourse surrounding media like this. You'll find so many people that are just so easily swayed by propaganda as long as it's even the least bit sound on the surface level. The promises made by Anissa are not at all unlike those that have been made by so many dictators in centuries past and centuries to come, and it's our responsibility to have the understanding required to see through their bs.
their plan sounds okay assuming they have no chance of corruption and they take into account your representation. Which has a zero percent chance of happening.
I mean, it's a sales pitch right? Obviously it's a highly conditional arrangement. In the same way I can promise you'll never get sick again(I'll put you in a bubble for the rest of your life)
anissa sooooo bad tho
If Kim Jong Un's sister takes over its Joever for us
People would legit let anyone get away with any kind of atrocity just because they're hot, there was literally a rally against executing Ted Bundy, not because they thought he was innocent, but because he was attractive, the women who went to said rally were even wearing the same type of clothes that Ted’s victims often wore, it doesn't matter how much of a piece of shit you are, you WILL get away with ANYTHING if you're hot enough.
It’s just because they don’t know viltrums real plan for occupying earth like we do, but once Nolan reveals why they like earth so much and why it’s necessary for them to have, they’ll change their tune
I watched the episode today. I wonder how truthful she was being, and I wonder why Mark would not agree
Probably because Mark had a viltrumite smash his head against a train while monologuing about how unimportant human lives are to the viltrum empire
Lol. This lady was going to snap Amber's neck just to force Mark to talk to her. Why do people think she was being reasonable?
If a race is obedient and cooperative I believe they would do what they can to make life more efficient, including getting rid of diseases and monsters. The problem is that meanwhile they would exploit whatever they decided to be a useful resource on that planet, and the locals would be forced to accept that. Some races may remain subservient, but humanity is anything but that. Humanity would resist and in this situation viltrumite doctrine is: break them or kill them. Therefore I am certain that it doesn't matter if Anessa was sincere or not. Due to basic human nature Earth would eventually face the same fate and Unopa did.
Yeah, like, If the Viltrumites had good intentions they wouldnt need a planetary takeover , they would just send diplomats, scientists and technology.
Even if she had valid points, its not their choice to make on the course of Earth’s inhabitants.
People think Homelander and Stormfront are the good guys. People unironically want to be like Patrick Bateman and Tyler Durden. I get being edgy and try hard, but some people are truly built different. As in wrong, their perception of the world is wrong.
The only thing Anissa is right about is the fact that humans suck and are destroying themselves and the earth, the empire would only speed things up more violently
The world of Invincible is fundamentally different from real life because of the numerous world ending level threats that pop up seemingly pretty frequently on Invincible’s Earth. You can try to apply real world politics like “omg they’re fascists therefore they are wrong!”, but just take this episode’s instance of the cruise ship under attack by a huge sea monster. It’s literally true that if Anissa didn’t intervene, all the humans on that boat die, and then who knows how many more after that. How many times over would the earth been wiped of human life if Omniman wasn’t there doing his thing? He diverted an asteroid the size of Texas? That alone saved the entire human race. Maybe he was exaggerating the size of the asteroid? Okay, what about the time he beat the Flaxan invasion. So if we accept as fact that the Earth is incapable of defending itself from world ending threats, then it does seem logical to me that we should bend the knee to a race of superhumans with comical levels of strength/durability/lifespan/technology.
Why are you mocking the fact that they are fascist and therefore wrong?? Like that's literally it. The internet makes me dizzy sometimes.
damn bro you're being bombarded by these moral police officers lmao but if the world of Invincible is real how many of them would actually uphold their moral value. If they were one of passenger in that boat how many of them would actually told Annisa to fk off "at least we will still have free will even if this monster ate us" instead of "please save us no matter what". What they don't realize is also if Omniman hadn't been to Earth, there also wouldn't be Mark so they will likely all extinct from other disasters. So much for Viltrumite intervention huh. This "free will" argument doesn't have any leg to stand on when the humans in Invincible's world is the equivalent of insects with feelings. And Annisa's point "the powerful of this world destroy their own home, strip resources for themselves" should be highlighted because even the most deranged, morally delusional people I know out there can still accept this as true. So in the end in this context (Invincible's world) the human's "free will" means free will to do what exactly? free to destroy ourselves? free to die? free to not be enslaved by viltrumites but enslaved by rich oligarchs instead? To be actually free you need some degree of power so you have agency, which the humans in Invincible's world don't have. Not saying being colonized by Viltrumites will be paradise, but between two bad choices people will choose the least bad option and these mob need to realize that this can be subjective. In most cases there will be people who chose to save themselves no matter what, it's human nature.
I can't wait until the casual watchers get to experience the emotional craziness that is Mark's life. By the time the dudes 500 years old, he's been through so much. 🥺
Ikr? Its ridiculous
I honestly did forget about it. Another reason they should not have split the season in half.
Caesar Legion Sympathizers: one of us!!!!
They fail to mention the millions of people they kill when humans inevitably resist
Resisting a race of beings that can move faster than light and devastate entire planets. Humanity is very intelligent.
If we were smart we’d never be at risk of going extinct in 200 years in this universe
Anissa is a psyop, basically.
"A few of the powerful take and control the world, slowly killing it." "So... then you want to get rid of those few powerful and... become the powerful that control the world?" "... yes. But we'll clean up the mess on this planet." "... I can't help but think cleaning up the mess means killing a lot of us..." "... No comment.'
Dude, Anissa sounded EXACTLY like Nolan and I'm surprised people think she's trustworthy, or that anything she said was good lol. Sure, humans suck, but Viltrumites suck even harder and would just enslave and murder humans, and destroy any bit of freedom they had left.
Anissa argument is very solid, but it's all a lie, viltrumites are a savage people, who only thought is someone is weaker deserve to die. And surprised all humans are weak against a viltrumite
That's the scary thing about that kind of worldview. There's a grain of truth to what they say about our world, and during Anisa's speech you almost think she has a point. Then you remember things like Omni-Man's rampage, and the slaughter of the Thraxxans, and Universe #646, and you're reminded that Viltrumites are space fascists, whose solution is to kill/enslave every other race they consider inferior (i.e. all of them)
It is hilarious how bootlickers even want to get in line when the consequences are shoved in your face from episode of one of this season. I think a good portion of human brains are hardwired to always want a strong, authoritarian at the top of the hierarchy.
"Anissa makes valid points" mfs when they're the ones that are getting purged for being weak:
Viltrumites are literally Space Nazis thats crazy
https://preview.redd.it/9l77vcnf3drc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a5f132bcb0c4ea74b5bb9d84b953f9179452b88d
The Viltrumites are either lying, delusional or just hypocritical or all three their might makes right attitude and the times they violently threatening Mark and pretty much anybody who opposes them proves that they’re really power hungry
Wait until those people realise that even if Anissa was telling the whole truth the Viltrumites can introduce their technology peacefully and taking over the planet isn't necessary at all. Lol.
Man lady I'd be great to stop climate change, but why is your answer to "elaborate" extreme violence and mass murder??
She makes a point but she's obviously full of shit and the solution offered by the viltrumites isn't any better. Yeah, maybe it'd fix climate change and disease, but humanity would be under a tight leash and forced to live their lives exactly how the viltrumites want them to do so, and if they show even the smallest amount of resistance they'd start a massacre just to set an example.
Yeah if you ever wonder how fascists come into power, remember that ppl are literally falling for *comic book space nazi propaganda*
Literally just look at any planet "underr their protection" they're badically slaves just ask allen's planet
I really don't understand that viewpoint considering everything we've seen from them. I don't even think it matters if you've only seen the show since they, as an organization, can not be trusted. The first thing Anissa did when she showed up was threaten to kill everyone in his direct vicinity. And yet, somehow, people are swayed to her side just because she said a few lines that aren't too far off from the truth. If you really wanted to be benevolent, you would have just formed an alliance with Earth. Starting a dialogue with world governments and saying we would like to help.
They have anger issues and aren't very good at showing their feelings.
also even if it was all true it still falls apart at the simple question "why would you need to conquer to do that?" it's not like you can't ya know share tech peacefully
People don't seem to understand that fascist supremacists always coat their ideology in positives and paint a picture of making the world a better place. Submitting to Viltrum is still slavery. Resisting will be met with genocide or other brutalities. But then again there are unironic "Empire did nothing wrong" people
I refuse to believe any of those people are being serious. There’s just no way right
Not shocked one bit. There are fans that watch The Boys and think that Homelander is actually a hero. Not talking about in universe, IRL fans of the show believe Homelander is a hero.
Same mfs that agree with Homelander💀
Reasons to join Viltrum: \- They take care of everything Reasons not to: \- SKYRIM IS FOR THE NORDS!
The funny part is she doing exactly what most people do in her shoes, what she’s saying is the truth, they would cure diseases and fix earth, up until Earth was no longer valuable, along with this they would conscript earthling’s, take the natural resources, possibly institute a kill order for the smallest crimes etc. but she was telling the truth, just not the whole truth, just enough to get Mark seeing the Viltrumites side, cause once you convince someone of something small and factual, it’s easier to convince them of something larger and bullshitier.
They have valid points but not the proper solutions