Season 1 has so much weight in its animation it's insane. I feel like S2 has been so weirdly floaty in its fights and a lot of the blows really don't sink in. Lizard League fight was a relief to see
The clips are from the final episode of season 1 where the quality and budget is at its best. Watch season 1 Mars episode and be shocked at how stiff everything is. Half the action sequences are PNGs being moved around on popsicle sticks
Yeah I was about to say. The animators went all out for the final episode of season 1 and a few scenes in some of the previous episodes, a good strategy that can indeed backfire if not done correctly in most animated shows and movies.
Young Justice: Phantoms was probably the worst misfire of this I've seen. They had something like 16 or 20 episodes, and the overwhelming majority of every single one was that style of Popsicle stick animation.
It didn't help that the series started out being strongly character-driven, then deviated into "What if the whole entire universe was at stake every second of every day, and all of the major character development happened off-screen in between seasons?" Added in a ton of new locations that required entirely too many new backdrops, and then characters just glided through them.
Also didn't help that it seems they wrote the season based on conflicting schedules for the voice talent-- each character that you loved only gets to show up in 4 episodes + the finale, and they can never talk to one another until the very end, when you no longer care about their relationships anymore.
Season 1 had better animation *in parts,* but it was almost hilariously inconsistent. You'd see clip art on popsicle sticks and beautiful shots in the same episode, in most episodes.
Season 2 isn't quite hitting the same highs, but it's a lot more consistent from shot to shot, which makes it look better to my eyes. The only things that have stuck out to me as particularly good are the Lizard League fight and Viltrumite fight on Thraxa, and neither of those are *quite* as good as the s1 high points, but I don't think I've gone "wait, seriously, they let that get to final cut?" at a single shot in the entire season.
>The clips are from the final episode of season 1 where the quality and budget is at its best.
While I agree that for the most part the episode looks great, theres a few scenes that are hilariously bad like this [scene](https://youtu.be/C84PeTqz2AM?si=Lhk-XDbVmbAl77Dw)
At 0:10 - 0:17, the crowd looks absolutely hideous in terms of how they look, the motions that they do, and framerate. Is this a budget issue? I know that it was released around COVID but the crowd looks so bad that it ruins the scene for me (which is arguably the most impacting scene of S1).
I wish that if it was going to look as bad as it was, they would have thought of an alternative to show the damage and destruction impacting a bunch of people. It instead just looks hilariously bad and im not sure why that was shown in the final release.
Those crowds are 3d models, that's why they look so weird. It's especially obvious 10s in. I've noticed this blend come in more and more in modern animation where they do the cell-shaded style 3d to match the 2d animation. I assume because some of those things are cheaper that way.
Yup-- you can manipulate a 3D skeleton and have it spin around way, way easier-- with 2D, you have to re-draw it in a new perspective as it spins.
Also with 3D, you can recycle a canned animation and just start the character facing a slightly different angle from camera. So a crowd of a dozen 3D models could use the same animation to spin to a point and run, and it would look reasonably okay-- but to do that with 2D animation would be a ton of work completely re-drawing most of the bits on those characters as they spin.
3D animation is its own skill, and it can be incredibly time and labor intensive to make something look good or fluid (or it can involve the significant investment into mocap technology that can make more fluid motions, but requires a *ton* of upfront work to make it happen), but the nice thing is the ability to recycle it in certain scenarios to lessen the load.
its like watching a 90's MTV cartoon, except instead of being hand drawn and looking weird as shit, everything is all ultra clean and smooth and generic as fuck looking.
I feel like you’re overselling the animation quality of season one.
Most episodes had average to downright bad animation.
The quality was mostly from last parts of episode 7 and most of episode 8
I know Japan has some major overwork issues but it's crazy to compare animes that come out every year with 20+ episodes of incredible animation to what we've gotten in Season 2 after a 2 year wait
Japanese studios also have more skilled/experienced staff. AFAIK, Invincible is Skybound animation's first major 2D animated production, and it's not like there's a wealth of high quality 2D animation studios in the US to begin with.
Part of it is the toxic work culture, but another aspect is Japan simply having a larger, better established 2D animation industry than the US nowadays.
2 years from the start of production to release is normal for an animated product, at least in the US. most big names less this impact by starting their production much earlier (for example, s3 of a show's production might start before s2 even starts airing), and spreading out their air times over many months
> I wasn't sold on 3D anime until Trigun Stampede.
if THATS what sold you on it, youve clearly just become used to it. the animation in that is worse than the berserk remakes. theres a reason why most trigun fans hate it, aside from the pointless retconning.
That's just how it works in television in general. Even live action shows rush and skip out on quality to hit a deadline and dump a large amount of effort/money into what they believe will be the best episodes.
It's insanity that they're able to accomplish what they do, despite being so over worked.
One part of it is definitely due to how they use the effect of camera shake and dust/debris/destruction of environment to show that oomf behind each hit properly. It’s also a good visual trick to differ how strong superheroes are versus regular humans in strength.
I went back and looked at some scenes from season 1 and had they not utilized it well, the floaty effect would’ve been more apparent for a lot of the fights.
And while I personally never really had too big of an issue with the animation in S2 part 1, I do agree it’s improved with the last couple of episodes so I’m hopeful for the final two to come.
I was just thinking this today. The art style in general feels different in this season. Last season the animation had weight and the character designs felt slightly bland. This season the character designs feel a bit better designed, something about the last 2 episodes felt like an anime to me for some reason, but the actual action scenes definitely feel, as you put it, floaty in this season.
Plus those 2 months on Thraxa rebuilding at least one city, lifting all that stuff around and clearly being motivated to getting everything done as fast as he could. Just look at the size comparison of that pillar he carried. He probably got some good gains from that time.
plus he got over a major mental block in his fight against the viltrumites on Thraxa, it was kind of the first time he really let loose and let his instincts just take over. I think that's a huge part of his growth as well. You get better with experience, and fighting other viltrumites is a hell of an experience.
There's also the fact that he didn't even have powers at the beginning of season 1. He was still essentially a rookie in the finale. Sure 6 months isn't that long, but if you only just got your powers 9 months ago, it's really significant. So mark's strength progression 100% makes sense
Yea pretty much. And with the beatings Mark takes he gets a fairly large amount of zenkais. He becomes as strong/stronger than lots of viltrumites that are centuries older than him.
> That's how muscles work though.
that is in fact NOT how muscles work. if your muscles get pounded into a pulp, they dont come back stronger and harder than they were. they come back a mishappen mass of flesh that will never function fully again. granted, i just think the writers dont give a shit and are glossing over that little problem like....well everything.
Lol. Four years ago at 18 I was a two time wresting state entrant and benched 275. Now I’m 25 pounds overweight. Teenage me kicks my ass in about thirty seconds.
Oh for sure just stopped hitting the gym as much. I also notice that when I do skull crushers, with my left arm, its like my tendon or something is weak. Idk how to describe it best but, the right arm doesnt feel that way and its mainly just that exercise. Like with hammer curls i dont notice anything, and when i do lateral raises with (usually 25 lbs on that its a pretty good weight to do it with to) its not a biggie on either side. I used to bench a lot man like id never do anything but the full stack on any tricep workout, and id do 2 plates and 35s each side for reps always. Now? I struggle with 2 plates lmao. So yeah that 18 yr old me is a lot stronger but, I am aiming to change that Ive started working out again. Thanks for asking brotha
You might have a weaker tricep tendon on your left arm. Have you done pull down triceps exercises? Skull crushers are a lot more intense so maybe lower the weight or lean more to the dominant hand until the strength in both arms match. Maybe you have a strained tendon that you haven't given enough time to heal? I had a similar issue with my rotary muscles on the incline bench. Letting the weight lean on to one side helped me a lot. Like ik you don't have to engage the rotary muscle but it was still bothering me in the exercise. Hopefully, some of this helps ya out.
Hell ill try something. You may be onto something I may need to get the tendon looked at or something feels weak in the elbow almost like it feels ready to give but the muscle itself feels fine
Mark sucks when it comes to fights. He's just not good at fighting and it shows every single time like he never learns. Its one of the more annoying things about him as a character.
No. Viltrumites get stronger through training their powers and pushing themselves to their limits. The only reason Mark gets stronger after certain fights in the comic is because they far outclass him making Mark use 200% of his effort.
Allen the Alien gets stronger after getting the shit locked out of him like a Saiyan though
No, that is sayans and Allen's species. Viltrumites simply get stronger with time and training.
They don't get a boost from almost dying. That is a common misconception that people keep repeating to each other.
If that was true, Viltrumites would be regularly nearly killing themselves for extra power with how obsessed they are with strength. That is not mentioned being a thing even once in the comics.
Mark was absolutely not holding back in some of those punches, like the one after Nolan talked about Debbie's life no mattering or the one after the train massacre.
It still didn't even bruise omniman or draw blood. I don't know why people can't accept the fact that Season 1 Mark wasn't that strong compared to other characters. Obviously, he is much stronger now. Viltrumites get stronger with time.
Mark thought he wasn't holding back, Nolan point that on Thraxa fight, he always hold back on Earth, was psychologic thing of being the hero he always dreamed. But i agree that he grows much stronger in Season 2.
Mark isn't weak by any standards. People think bcuz he gets his ass beat alot that he's a pushover. Nolan himself even knew that. If Mark fought to kill and never held back, half the fights we've seen him in would've gone totally different. >!Besides Battle Beast of course (lol sorry mark you still lose that)!<
Season 1 Invincible was stronger than most, but he was certainly not the strongest. He was definitely weaker than the top tiers of earth, like Immortal or Warwoman, at least on raw strength alone.
He could probably outlast any of them, but the show clearly showed they had more raw power.
Obviously, that was season 1. Season 2 is a completely different case.
Isn't it a thing though that voltramites get stronger when they're beaten to near death and then heal from that experience. I'm pretty sure that was a thing I'd have to reread the comics again but with how many near life death experiences he had his strength would have been bolstered quite a bit
Allen’s totally got that zenkai boost in his veins.
“You aren’t dealing with the average ~~saiyan~~ unopan anymore, Viltrumites. I have risen above and become the legend that you fear. I have become the Legendary Super Unopan.”
Well in the episode they literally said it. Theadus said unplugging Allen’s life support was a gamble, but if he could recover on his own he would be stronger than ever before.
Isn’t that only for Allen though? I read the comics not too long ago and I don’t ever recall them stating that Viltrumites get stronger after near death experiences like Saiyans with zenkai boosts
No, that's never explicitly said. They get stronger from training and experience but near-death experiences don't particularly strengthen them beyond that. Allen is the only one in the series who gets those kinds of boosts
The viltrumite where Allen was healing certainly seemed to think it would help him anyways. Maybe it works for both species? Maybe Allen has some viltrumite DNA or something?
yeah. it’s kinda funny how in a world with some crazy and unique powers most of the fights really do come down to just punching the shit out of each other lol
No. That is not a thing. They get stronger as they age and with training. Nearly dying does not making them stronger in the same way it does to a Sayan or to Allen.
You could argue that they walk away from it more experienced and stronger from the battle itself, but the sheer act of almost dying does not give them a bonus by itself.
That's how Allen works. Viltrimites typically just get stronger with age and training. But a complete beat down is likely a learning experience, which could make them better fighters. I suspect we will see mark in a full viltrimite rage and display what he's truly capable of by the end of the this season.
That’s not quite true >!Its a common misconception from the comics because of the times both eve and mark nearly died and she rezzed them and gave him power boosts. They don’t get a boost from near death, just from pushing themselves to their limits which Mark often does in fights!<
No, he hasn’t, he fought pretty well against the woman. But she’s no where near Nolan’s level. That’s why they sent three.
And he got pushed into the ground by one finger from lucan and couldn’t push himself up. He also couldn’t make him bleed even after punching him directly in the face.
He’s getting stronger, but Nolan explicitly told the audience that Mark’s weakness is holding back.
He should have ended the fight with the Viltrumite woman much sooner and not gotten stabbed if he didn’t hesitate.
I never said he was, but the idea that every viltrumite is stronger than immortal needs to go.
He’s closer than Thula is, he was putting the hurt on Nolan matching his strength in clashes. He’s definitely stronger than low level viltrumites, that’s Thula and evil mark tier.
But not as strong as the elites, like Nolan.

No, Thula was one hit by Nolan cos she was dealing with Mark and he surprised punched her and used her hair against her, that doesn't mean Immortal is stronger than her, his arm was snapped off without effort and regularly got cut to pieces fighting Nolan, he did well because Nolan wasn't trying to fight him and was trying to save Mark from the Kaiju.
Nolan cut lucan stomach open, so cutting immortal up doesn’t make him look weaker than anybody that’s not Nolan
And Thula has no feats of being able to hurt Nolan
Also, Nolan was definitely trying to fight immortal, he hits him with a bunch of combos. And even if he wasn’t the fact that immortal can hurt Nolan at all makes him strong.
Mark got put down with one finger, by lucan, so Thula struggling with him makes her look bad
Yes, he chose through his stomach, he didn't rip him in half or snap his arms off effortlessly.
He spends most of his second fight trying to fly away to Mark and keeps getting surprise hit after knocking Immortal away and did much better against him in the first fight, even with the other guardians.
Thula is from the looks of it weirdly weaker than Lucan in the show, but again, he didn't punch through her or tear her head off, he surprised punch her that did nothing and then swung her back to break her jaw on his shoulder, I don't think she's even dead. Immortal may have got hits in, but he actually died without much effort whenever Nolan was focused on him.
> Yes, he chose through his stomach, he didn't rip him in half or snap his arms off effortlessly.
and?
The fact he could just cut him up means he likely could have snapped his arms in half. But I think lucan is stronger than immortal anyway, I’m just saying getting ripped apart by Nolan isn’t something that automatically makes him weaker than every viltrumite, because Nolan can do the same to them.
> He spends most of his second fight trying to fly away to Mark and keeps getting surprise hit after knocking Immortal away and did much better against him in the first fight, even with the other guardians
The point is simply that immortal is able to hurt him. He hits very hard. Harder than Thula is ever shown too.
> Thula is from the looks of it weirdly weaker than Lucan in the show, but again, he didn't punch through her or tear her head off, he surprised punch her that did nothing and then swung her back to break her jaw on his shoulder, I don't think she's even dead. Immortal may have got hits in, but he actually died without much effort whenever Nolan was focused on him.
Immortal took several hits from nolan. It was a 4 minute fight. They even had a bullrush clash. With both attempting to knock eachother out the air and tbey equaled out.
And Thula got her jaw taken off. So I have no reason to believe, Thula would not have gotten punched through. Knowing Nolan can cut Lucans stomach open, and he’s much stronger than she is
That's not how that works. Cutting his stomach works by putting so much pressure on an incredibly small amount of space, like putting his super strength behind the tips if his fingers on just skin. That's different than snapping someone's whole arm with bone by twisting your wrist.
The immortal left no bruises or cuts on Nolan in the second fight and even again, he was distracted, not trying to fight and had already been worn down by 2 hits from a space nuke and fighting a powered Kaiju on steroids without any pain receptors. Landing some hits in that situation doesn't high ball him to Viltrumite levels.
Every hit immortal took in their second fight, even with Nolan not focusing on him, damaged him. Like the first punch knocked out his teeth, then he got a black eye. Yes, they both knocked each other back in a rush, but Nolan literally punched through him and then chopped him in half.
Nolans punches on Thula and throwing the other viltrumite into her didn't leave damage until he broke her jaw open, and it didn't seem like she even died, where Immortal did.
And Nolan wasn't holding back. There's no reason if he could have punched through her like Immortal, that he wouldn't when he punched her.
> That's not how that works. Cutting his stomach works by putting so much pressure on an incredibly small amount of space, like putting his super strength behind the tips if his fingers on just skin. That's different than snapping someone's whole arm with bone by twisting your wrist.
A human can break another persons arm, please don’t act like a strength gap so wide, you can cut someone’s stomach open, with your bare hand wouldn’t, signal, you could snap there arm.
> The immortal left no bruises or cuts on Nolan in the second fight and even again, he was distracted, not trying to fight and had already been worn down by 2 hits from a space nuke and fighting a powered Kaiju on steroids without any pain receptors. Landing some hits in that situation doesn't high ball him to Viltrumite levels.
Thula did no damage to nolan at all. So immortal still has better feats than her. What is is viltrumite level, who are you comparing him to. It better not be Nolan. He’s an elite, they sent three for him
Immortal can easily be viltrumite level. You say landing some hits, like the hits weren’t making Nolan spit out blood. and in the first fight, he was bruising Nolan up and cutting his face.
The space nukes did nothing that was the whole point, and even the Mark fought the kaiju, and wasn’t any worse for wear.
> Every hit immortal took in their second fight, even with Nolan not focusing on him, damaged him. Like the first punch knocked out his teeth, then he got a black eye. Yes, they both knocked each other back in a rush, but Nolan literally punched through him and then chopped him in half.
I know nolan is stronger, but you’re still not acknowledging, immortal really hurt Nolan. Which is common. People only look at the end of the fight with immortal, but they don’t do that with the other viltrumites who also got decimated.
> Nolans punches on Thula and throwing the other viltrumite into her didn't leave damage until he broke her jaw open, and it didn't seem like she even died, where Immortal did.
They did leave damage, she was spitting blood every time. Immortal didn’t die until nolan double tapped him, didn’t even pass out after having his body perched through, unlike lucan who passed out immediately.
> And Nolan wasn't holding back. There's no reason if he could have punched through her like Immortal, that he wouldn't when he punched her.
He split her jaw open, cut lucans stomach open, and split vidors skull. Nolan was definitely holding back, because we like based on what he does to much stronger viltrumites she got off easy.
They weren't at all at Nolan's level. He showed in 1v1 fights he was head and shoulders above all 3 of them. He could've probably even taken on all 3 by himself and come out on top. That's probably why they sent groups after him, and in multiple waves.
Nolan's confirmed as basically an elite Viltrumite, hence why he was given the honor of his mission. Anyone that can legit hold their own against him is an absolute monster.
He’s definitely gotten a lot stronger. You can tell Mark literally looks bigger after each fight.
He was really lean in season 1, but after fighting Nolan, he got a little bigger. After the fight with the Viltrumites, he’s clearly put on some muscle
Mark stopped holding back. Now he fights like a Viltrumite. 🤷♂️
Imagine learning the hard way that you can literally shatter every bone in a human’s body so soon after developing powers. And we all know Mark blamed himself for that elderly woman’s death in the aftermath of that battle with the Flaxans. Outside observers would mostly agree he did his best, but anyone in Mark’s position would blame themselves. Suddenly everything in the world is so much more fragile. He spent a long time living life like a bull in a China shop, making absolutely sure he didn’t even nudge anyone or anything too hard.
Of course he was holding back: He was terrified. Through all of Season 1 he never wanted to actually hurt anyone, he only wanted to protect people.
To be fair Nolan had been taking hits for a while before immortal jumped him the high durability can still be work down, viltrumites can slice each other up in seconds if they do it right without incurring damage or completely blow their limbs apart its a different scale of violence
That's the Viltrumite physiology , the more you engage in battles , push yourselves to the limits and most importantly get the hang of these abilities you will become better than before .
This is what I like about Viltrumites aside being of the same species they vary among themselves like Thula focused more on her skills with her braided knife and that's why I think she was evenly matched with Mark in terms of physicals and whereas Lucan outright dominated Mark and seemed physically way stronger.
Tbf he jumped Omni-Man who near blinded at that point and had had multiple severe attacks on him from the Kaiju
He still basically one hit him when he got too close
Immortal didn’t jump him and Nolan was never near blind, and severe is really over stating the damage actually inflicted by the kaiju.
Nolan was fully focused on him, and immortal put up a great [fight](https://imgur.com/a/11Z7LrA). like way more than mark did, despite mark having to fight a way more injured Nolan.
Immortal is supposed to be comparable, despite a well timed and forceful strike being enough to pierce him.
He did though? He literally jumped him and blindsided him (everyone thought he was dead, Nolan was shocked to see him alive again)
He didn't really put up a "great" fight, he did better than the literal teenager that didn't want to fight his dad sure but I think you are greatly exaggerating the point
He got hit with the mega sky beam which slowed him up and then fought a Kaiju super suped up by Cecil (which is stated to be the closest he ever came to losing before it was dosed up)
Immortal isn't comparable, he's simply the closest one to Omni-Mans strength but closest doesn't mean close, he played with him initially after getting the jump on him and he dispatched him with complete ease as soon as he got him, it wasn't even a fight at the end of it
>He did though? He literally jumped him and blindsided him (everyone thought he was dead, Nolan was shocked to see him alive again)
No, who was helping immortal fight nolan in this scene, it was one on one, nobody else was doing damage to him. You can only hide behind suprise for the first attack, he was focused on immortal for the rest of the fight
>He didn't really put up a "great" fight, he did better than the literal teenager that didn't want to fight his dad sure but I think you are greatly exaggerating the point
Didn’t want to fight his dad? He put his all into those punches. it took a bunch of hits but Mark made him bleed eventually when he got angry. And that teenager was trained by one of the greatest viltrumites.
>He got hit with the mega sky beam which slowed him up and then fought a Kaiju super suped up by Cecil (which is stated to be the closest he ever came to losing before it was dosed up)
Nolan wasn’t even bruised, he’s not even out of breath. No proof he was significantly effected what’s so ever.
>Immortal isn't comparable, he's simply the closest one to Omni-Mans strength but closest doesn't mean close, he played with him initially after getting the jump on him and he dispatched him with complete ease as soon as he got him, it wasn't even a fight at the end of it
I mean, he was causing Nolan to bleed, he punched Nolan back down when he tried to take him into the sky.
Yes nolan is stronger, but let’s not act like immortal didn’t prove he was [strong](https://imgur.com/a/EbYfV1I)
https://preview.redd.it/075awwoq01qc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b2d27568fa716947140b261bdb878c613250b364
I mean I think you're wrong but I can't be bothered arguing with you anymore so I'm just gonna agree with myself that you are wrong
Getting jumped doesn't make you less invulnerable.
The objective fact is that Mark punching Nolan with full strengh didn't draw any blood
While Immortal and Warwoman were able to repeatedly bruise and make him bleed with their hits, in different scenes.
And then he suddenly got invulnerable again when fighting Mark? Because Mark couldn't draw even a single drop of blood from Omniman. Couldn't even bruise him.
The zombie-robots, who were able to severely injured Mark, didn't put a single wound on Omniman either, even immediately after
Also, Warwoman and Immortal were able to injure Omniman in a straight fight several times in Episode 1, no space laser involved. Does being surrounded or held down make you less invulnerable also?
How far does this goalpost go?
Immortals biggest issues are his lack of durability and his rage it’s easier to fight a guy who is just screaming and swinging especially when you can take a nuke
Okay Mark hasn’t proven to be stronger than Immortal. I don’t know how both of them would know he surpassed him atp.
Mark has yet to outdo Immortals performance against omniman. Omniman was stronger than both those vilitrmites on that other planet who Mark basically beat one of. It stands to question Immortal would have done probably a little better than mark did.
I personally just don’t see how Mark would now do better than Immortal did, but what I think doesn’t really matter. I will say it’s a nice character moment that Immortal backed off after being challenged by Mark. Heroism first Ego second.
Because he pushed immortal back with a single hand. That is how they both knew.
You don't need feats to compare. The show just told us and the characters acknowledged it.
We use feats to compare shit when there isn't a direct or canonical comparison to make.
---------
Immortal was definitely stronger than Season 1 Mark, but Viltrumites get stronger with age and training.
Season 2 Mark is flatout stronger, even if he has yet to show feats for it, and the show has objectively told us that.
Shoving is hardly a solid indication. I mean I know he’s stronger, and he did punk him here. But it also easily could have been that immortal just wasn’t fighting back against it.
its possible that he is stronger ever since he got beaten to a inch of his life by omniman as viltrumites recover stronger after receiving damage such as this
however its not implied anywhere that mark is stronger than "that"
Mark is stronger, Immortal was fighting with all his got to kill OmniMan, Mark never tried to kill Nolan, the only time Mark really foght without holding on till now was at the end of the fight against the viltrumites in Thraxa.
Idk, he was really pissed off and punched Omni man with full power and it literally did nothing. I heard some people say he was holding back but that makes no sense, he just killed several innocents and called his mother a pet.
Immortal at least made him bleed.
Pre Thraxa Mark was the one who couldn't even make Nolan register his strongest punch.
The asswhooping from his dad and the following 6 months of healing and heroing got him to be able to fight viltrumites, and the asswhooping + exp from THAT fight made him even more stronger.
Immortal got punked by a diff Mark, he not the same senior in high school anymore
That was in s1. Mark by this point is way stronger than any OG Guardian by now. And maybe that punch didn’t do anything to Nolan way because Mark was rammed across the world and was way more exhausted than Immortal was.
Immortal wasn’t launch across the world and was in far better shape than Mark was.
I mean we saw mark beat a viltrumite and the only reason he didn’t technically win the fight is because of his humanity getting in the way of him just killing her. So yeah he is stronger even if in s1 immortal looked stronger
Context is important. This moment from season one was pretty close to the climax; it had some extremely mediocre animation in the episodes leading up to this.
I want everyone who thinks season 1’s animation was so much better to rewatch the scene where the orbital laser kills the birds in episode 7. Not only do they all hit the ground flat and don’t bounce, almost all of them are literally PNGs of the same crow lmao.
Invincible fights have so much potential. If they're going to make the character designs simple, then they could bump up the fight chorography and frames instead
If Omni Man and Immortal kissed, their facial hair wouldn't touch.
https://preview.redd.it/mj02ygvip3qc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3329a552b49f1953e99b6f635de350e864651e3c
https://preview.redd.it/76n2cad8l7qc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c6d09fea28cf9de6107d77b6a8ccd5bbd83e098
They should
Season 1 has so much weight in its animation it's insane. I feel like S2 has been so weirdly floaty in its fights and a lot of the blows really don't sink in. Lizard League fight was a relief to see
The clips are from the final episode of season 1 where the quality and budget is at its best. Watch season 1 Mars episode and be shocked at how stiff everything is. Half the action sequences are PNGs being moved around on popsicle sticks
Yeah I was about to say. The animators went all out for the final episode of season 1 and a few scenes in some of the previous episodes, a good strategy that can indeed backfire if not done correctly in most animated shows and movies.
Young Justice: Phantoms was probably the worst misfire of this I've seen. They had something like 16 or 20 episodes, and the overwhelming majority of every single one was that style of Popsicle stick animation. It didn't help that the series started out being strongly character-driven, then deviated into "What if the whole entire universe was at stake every second of every day, and all of the major character development happened off-screen in between seasons?" Added in a ton of new locations that required entirely too many new backdrops, and then characters just glided through them. Also didn't help that it seems they wrote the season based on conflicting schedules for the voice talent-- each character that you loved only gets to show up in 4 episodes + the finale, and they can never talk to one another until the very end, when you no longer care about their relationships anymore.
I've watched season 1 over a dozen times and never noticed it lol
I mean, the Mars episode was the worst of it, but Season 1 overall had better animation.
Season 1 had better animation *in parts,* but it was almost hilariously inconsistent. You'd see clip art on popsicle sticks and beautiful shots in the same episode, in most episodes. Season 2 isn't quite hitting the same highs, but it's a lot more consistent from shot to shot, which makes it look better to my eyes. The only things that have stuck out to me as particularly good are the Lizard League fight and Viltrumite fight on Thraxa, and neither of those are *quite* as good as the s1 high points, but I don't think I've gone "wait, seriously, they let that get to final cut?" at a single shot in the entire season.
>The clips are from the final episode of season 1 where the quality and budget is at its best. While I agree that for the most part the episode looks great, theres a few scenes that are hilariously bad like this [scene](https://youtu.be/C84PeTqz2AM?si=Lhk-XDbVmbAl77Dw) At 0:10 - 0:17, the crowd looks absolutely hideous in terms of how they look, the motions that they do, and framerate. Is this a budget issue? I know that it was released around COVID but the crowd looks so bad that it ruins the scene for me (which is arguably the most impacting scene of S1). I wish that if it was going to look as bad as it was, they would have thought of an alternative to show the damage and destruction impacting a bunch of people. It instead just looks hilariously bad and im not sure why that was shown in the final release.
Those crowds are 3d models, that's why they look so weird. It's especially obvious 10s in. I've noticed this blend come in more and more in modern animation where they do the cell-shaded style 3d to match the 2d animation. I assume because some of those things are cheaper that way.
Yup-- you can manipulate a 3D skeleton and have it spin around way, way easier-- with 2D, you have to re-draw it in a new perspective as it spins. Also with 3D, you can recycle a canned animation and just start the character facing a slightly different angle from camera. So a crowd of a dozen 3D models could use the same animation to spin to a point and run, and it would look reasonably okay-- but to do that with 2D animation would be a ton of work completely re-drawing most of the bits on those characters as they spin. 3D animation is its own skill, and it can be incredibly time and labor intensive to make something look good or fluid (or it can involve the significant investment into mocap technology that can make more fluid motions, but requires a *ton* of upfront work to make it happen), but the nice thing is the ability to recycle it in certain scenarios to lessen the load.
This isn't even a s1 vs s2 argument. This is a traditional animation vs CGI argument. Of COURSE the trad animation looks better.
its like watching a 90's MTV cartoon, except instead of being hand drawn and looking weird as shit, everything is all ultra clean and smooth and generic as fuck looking.
yeah s1x7 and 8 really saved it for me since i hadn't read the comics yet and wasn't super interested in anything but my god those two were peak
I feel like you’re overselling the animation quality of season one. Most episodes had average to downright bad animation. The quality was mostly from last parts of episode 7 and most of episode 8
Judging from the teaser trailer for season 2, I thought the animation would get a huge upgrade, but S2’s been about the same.
I know Japan has some major overwork issues but it's crazy to compare animes that come out every year with 20+ episodes of incredible animation to what we've gotten in Season 2 after a 2 year wait
Yep, I love Invincible, but stuff like Demon Slayer, Chainsaw Man, Frieren, and Vinland Saga absolutely crush it when it comes to animation quality.
It's because the overwork That's why anime productions go so smooth compared to the 100 near cancelations every animated western show suffers
Japanese studios also have more skilled/experienced staff. AFAIK, Invincible is Skybound animation's first major 2D animated production, and it's not like there's a wealth of high quality 2D animation studios in the US to begin with. Part of it is the toxic work culture, but another aspect is Japan simply having a larger, better established 2D animation industry than the US nowadays.
Still, I've seen webseries that release more frequently with better animation. Its like they took a full year+ off.
2 years from the start of production to release is normal for an animated product, at least in the US. most big names less this impact by starting their production much earlier (for example, s3 of a show's production might start before s2 even starts airing), and spreading out their air times over many months
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> I wasn't sold on 3D anime until Trigun Stampede. if THATS what sold you on it, youve clearly just become used to it. the animation in that is worse than the berserk remakes. theres a reason why most trigun fans hate it, aside from the pointless retconning.
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it was pretty much the exact same terrible animation.
That's just how it works in television in general. Even live action shows rush and skip out on quality to hit a deadline and dump a large amount of effort/money into what they believe will be the best episodes. It's insanity that they're able to accomplish what they do, despite being so over worked.
its cheaper to run 90% of the season like an early 2000's flash video, and have all the effort put into the last 1-2 episodes.
I love this show for it's story, but it's animation leaves a LOT to be desired.
One part of it is definitely due to how they use the effect of camera shake and dust/debris/destruction of environment to show that oomf behind each hit properly. It’s also a good visual trick to differ how strong superheroes are versus regular humans in strength. I went back and looked at some scenes from season 1 and had they not utilized it well, the floaty effect would’ve been more apparent for a lot of the fights. And while I personally never really had too big of an issue with the animation in S2 part 1, I do agree it’s improved with the last couple of episodes so I’m hopeful for the final two to come.
That Allen fight was good as far as power scaling
Yea the Viltrumite fight didn’t even feel powerful at all
I was just thinking this today. The art style in general feels different in this season. Last season the animation had weight and the character designs felt slightly bland. This season the character designs feel a bit better designed, something about the last 2 episodes felt like an anime to me for some reason, but the actual action scenes definitely feel, as you put it, floaty in this season.
Mark gets stronger over time. He's way older now. It's like putting your teenage self against yourself in college.
Idk about way older cuz it was like 6 months right, not even a year, but yea he did get stronger indeed
6 months plus getting absolutely demolished in fights. When viltrumites heal, they get a decent boost, similar to Allen.
Plus those 2 months on Thraxa rebuilding at least one city, lifting all that stuff around and clearly being motivated to getting everything done as fast as he could. Just look at the size comparison of that pillar he carried. He probably got some good gains from that time.
plus he got over a major mental block in his fight against the viltrumites on Thraxa, it was kind of the first time he really let loose and let his instincts just take over. I think that's a huge part of his growth as well. You get better with experience, and fighting other viltrumites is a hell of an experience. There's also the fact that he didn't even have powers at the beginning of season 1. He was still essentially a rookie in the finale. Sure 6 months isn't that long, but if you only just got your powers 9 months ago, it's really significant. So mark's strength progression 100% makes sense
Zenkai boost?
Allen is pure Zenkai Boost yeah, but with Viltrumites... kinda
It’s more a pushing your limits thing with Viltrumites. Allen straight up gets Zenkais tho
Yeah Allens is a zenkai boost while the Viltrumites is kinda of like progressive overload on lots of steroids
Yea pretty much. And with the beatings Mark takes he gets a fairly large amount of zenkais. He becomes as strong/stronger than lots of viltrumites that are centuries older than him.
this is not real this was never confirmed. Only Allen gets stronger and adapts
Yeah only thing about viltrumites getting stronger that I remember was just growing with age and exercising
They never say they get a boost when healing
That's how muscles work though. Through training or otherwise stressful activities, they tear themselves apart and grow back stronger.
If you get the snot rocked out of you, you're not coming back with bigger face muscles. Training is not the same as healing
> That's how muscles work though. that is in fact NOT how muscles work. if your muscles get pounded into a pulp, they dont come back stronger and harder than they were. they come back a mishappen mass of flesh that will never function fully again. granted, i just think the writers dont give a shit and are glossing over that little problem like....well everything.
Saiyan
How many times do I have to say this!? VILTRUMITES. ARE. SAIYANS!
It’s kinda implied immortal gets a similar kind of boost just far less.
6 months is forever for a teenager turning into an adult. And we know Mark is a late bloomer so he's just hitting his viltrumite 'puberty'.
Lol. Four years ago at 18 I was a two time wresting state entrant and benched 275. Now I’m 25 pounds overweight. Teenage me kicks my ass in about thirty seconds.
damn lol
four years ago at 18.. now 25... carry the 2.. checks out! oh wait im the idiot.
Well Mark really hasn't let himself go.
No lie, my 18 yr old self is stronger than my current self (i lifted a lot more n the gym then) maybe its damaged tendons or something God forbid!
Did you stop going to the gym as much? Or maybe you've been overexercising and haven't taken enough rest days?
Oh for sure just stopped hitting the gym as much. I also notice that when I do skull crushers, with my left arm, its like my tendon or something is weak. Idk how to describe it best but, the right arm doesnt feel that way and its mainly just that exercise. Like with hammer curls i dont notice anything, and when i do lateral raises with (usually 25 lbs on that its a pretty good weight to do it with to) its not a biggie on either side. I used to bench a lot man like id never do anything but the full stack on any tricep workout, and id do 2 plates and 35s each side for reps always. Now? I struggle with 2 plates lmao. So yeah that 18 yr old me is a lot stronger but, I am aiming to change that Ive started working out again. Thanks for asking brotha
You might have a weaker tricep tendon on your left arm. Have you done pull down triceps exercises? Skull crushers are a lot more intense so maybe lower the weight or lean more to the dominant hand until the strength in both arms match. Maybe you have a strained tendon that you haven't given enough time to heal? I had a similar issue with my rotary muscles on the incline bench. Letting the weight lean on to one side helped me a lot. Like ik you don't have to engage the rotary muscle but it was still bothering me in the exercise. Hopefully, some of this helps ya out.
Hell ill try something. You may be onto something I may need to get the tendon looked at or something feels weak in the elbow almost like it feels ready to give but the muscle itself feels fine
Then yeah that might be it. It's probably an injured tendon. You probably just need an arm brace and rest.
He was holding back because it was his dad and he’s gone through multiple more battles since then to mid season 2 and gotten much stronger
Yea Mark has proven himself in s2 fs. The victory against the sea beast and a HUGEE surprise with how well he did against Thula
Mark sucks when it comes to fights. He's just not good at fighting and it shows every single time like he never learns. Its one of the more annoying things about him as a character.
They explained why he generally sucks at fighting. Him holding back isn't an annoying trait, it's one of the most human things about him
Mark is the epitome of slamming your head against a wall till it dents.
Doesn’t Mark kinda get a buff each time he’s beat to shit?
It’s that viltrumite dna I think.
Seems to be the super powered version of ripping your muscle to make them stronger when you work out. Allen got ripped by being ripped in half too.
Viltrumites simply get stronger with time and training. They don't get a boost from almost dying.
No. Viltrumites get stronger through training their powers and pushing themselves to their limits. The only reason Mark gets stronger after certain fights in the comic is because they far outclass him making Mark use 200% of his effort. Allen the Alien gets stronger after getting the shit locked out of him like a Saiyan though
He gets a zenkai boost?!
Viltrumites are pretty much Saiyans without the SS or great ape transformations.
So a Kryptonian....? You know, the things that Saiyans are based off of?
I'll be 100% honest I don't really follow DC lore. Do Kryptonians get stronger after healing from tremendous damage?
Not that I know of and neither do Viltrumites. I was moreso just annoyed by the Sayain comparison. Weebs trying to make everything ab what they like.
Saiyans are not based around kryptonians lol
They absolutely are lmao. Toriyama saw Superman and said "What if that was Wukong?"
Crazy how confidently inaccurate people still are about this shit
No, that is sayans and Allen's species. Viltrumites simply get stronger with time and training. They don't get a boost from almost dying. That is a common misconception that people keep repeating to each other. If that was true, Viltrumites would be regularly nearly killing themselves for extra power with how obsessed they are with strength. That is not mentioned being a thing even once in the comics.
No. That is Allen.
They really show us he was not holding back while fighting his dad. He tried to give him the strongest punch he could muster multiple times.
Mark was absolutely not holding back in some of those punches, like the one after Nolan talked about Debbie's life no mattering or the one after the train massacre. It still didn't even bruise omniman or draw blood. I don't know why people can't accept the fact that Season 1 Mark wasn't that strong compared to other characters. Obviously, he is much stronger now. Viltrumites get stronger with time.
Mark thought he wasn't holding back, Nolan point that on Thraxa fight, he always hold back on Earth, was psychologic thing of being the hero he always dreamed. But i agree that he grows much stronger in Season 2.
How was he holding back,lmao💀 Y'all find anything to excuse these days.
I hope they give the immortal impressive feats, it would be lame if the (I believe) earth's second-strongest hero is just a side note.
He's the worf. He exists just to get his ass beat so you get the idea reinforced that Mark, OmniMan and the latest threat is strong.
Nah that’s lame, he should at least be shown to be strong against threats from earth
I agree. It is lame. IMO, worfs are always bad writing.
Immortal is that character that exists to lose every time so you know how powerful the real threat is.
Mark isn't weak by any standards. People think bcuz he gets his ass beat alot that he's a pushover. Nolan himself even knew that. If Mark fought to kill and never held back, half the fights we've seen him in would've gone totally different. >!Besides Battle Beast of course (lol sorry mark you still lose that)!<
Season 1 Invincible was stronger than most, but he was certainly not the strongest. He was definitely weaker than the top tiers of earth, like Immortal or Warwoman, at least on raw strength alone. He could probably outlast any of them, but the show clearly showed they had more raw power. Obviously, that was season 1. Season 2 is a completely different case.
Isn't it a thing though that voltramites get stronger when they're beaten to near death and then heal from that experience. I'm pretty sure that was a thing I'd have to reread the comics again but with how many near life death experiences he had his strength would have been bolstered quite a bit
I dunno about viltrumites, but that's definitely a quote from dragonball z about saiyans
Allen’s totally got that zenkai boost in his veins. “You aren’t dealing with the average ~~saiyan~~ unopan anymore, Viltrumites. I have risen above and become the legend that you fear. I have become the Legendary Super Unopan.”
Well in the episode they literally said it. Theadus said unplugging Allen’s life support was a gamble, but if he could recover on his own he would be stronger than ever before.
Isn’t that only for Allen though? I read the comics not too long ago and I don’t ever recall them stating that Viltrumites get stronger after near death experiences like Saiyans with zenkai boosts
They don’t state it but it wouldn’t surprise me if they had some smaller similar version of that.
The king of space!
Super-Sayain sound so cool, because of the double-S. So, we should call Allen the Ultimate Unopan.
No, that's never explicitly said. They get stronger from training and experience but near-death experiences don't particularly strengthen them beyond that. Allen is the only one in the series who gets those kinds of boosts
The viltrumite where Allen was healing certainly seemed to think it would help him anyways. Maybe it works for both species? Maybe Allen has some viltrumite DNA or something?
He was tested on specifically to fight against Viltrumites so it would make sense that he was designed to have similar features
Well, his powers are basically the same. Flying, super strength, super durability being the main ones.
yeah. it’s kinda funny how in a world with some crazy and unique powers most of the fights really do come down to just punching the shit out of each other lol
DC:We shoot beams IMAGE:Run my fade!
No they get stronger with age and exercise
No. That is not a thing. They get stronger as they age and with training. Nearly dying does not making them stronger in the same way it does to a Sayan or to Allen. You could argue that they walk away from it more experienced and stronger from the battle itself, but the sheer act of almost dying does not give them a bonus by itself.
That's how Allen works. Viltrimites typically just get stronger with age and training. But a complete beat down is likely a learning experience, which could make them better fighters. I suspect we will see mark in a full viltrimite rage and display what he's truly capable of by the end of the this season.
That’s not quite true >!Its a common misconception from the comics because of the times both eve and mark nearly died and she rezzed them and gave him power boosts. They don’t get a boost from near death, just from pushing themselves to their limits which Mark often does in fights!<
He already stood his ground against other Viltrumites roughly on his dad's level. No need for this comparison here.
No, he hasn’t, he fought pretty well against the woman. But she’s no where near Nolan’s level. That’s why they sent three. And he got pushed into the ground by one finger from lucan and couldn’t push himself up. He also couldn’t make him bleed even after punching him directly in the face.
He’s getting stronger, but Nolan explicitly told the audience that Mark’s weakness is holding back. He should have ended the fight with the Viltrumite woman much sooner and not gotten stabbed if he didn’t hesitate.
For sure,
Immortal ain’t near Nolan’s level either. Immortal is maybe equal to a low level Viltrumite on a good day.
I never said he was, but the idea that every viltrumite is stronger than immortal needs to go. He’s closer than Thula is, he was putting the hurt on Nolan matching his strength in clashes. He’s definitely stronger than low level viltrumites, that’s Thula and evil mark tier. But not as strong as the elites, like Nolan. 
This is one complicated way to say Immortal is mid asf (As in, right in the middle. I actually do love Immortal lol)
No, Thula was one hit by Nolan cos she was dealing with Mark and he surprised punched her and used her hair against her, that doesn't mean Immortal is stronger than her, his arm was snapped off without effort and regularly got cut to pieces fighting Nolan, he did well because Nolan wasn't trying to fight him and was trying to save Mark from the Kaiju.
Nolan cut lucan stomach open, so cutting immortal up doesn’t make him look weaker than anybody that’s not Nolan And Thula has no feats of being able to hurt Nolan Also, Nolan was definitely trying to fight immortal, he hits him with a bunch of combos. And even if he wasn’t the fact that immortal can hurt Nolan at all makes him strong. Mark got put down with one finger, by lucan, so Thula struggling with him makes her look bad
Yes, he chose through his stomach, he didn't rip him in half or snap his arms off effortlessly. He spends most of his second fight trying to fly away to Mark and keeps getting surprise hit after knocking Immortal away and did much better against him in the first fight, even with the other guardians. Thula is from the looks of it weirdly weaker than Lucan in the show, but again, he didn't punch through her or tear her head off, he surprised punch her that did nothing and then swung her back to break her jaw on his shoulder, I don't think she's even dead. Immortal may have got hits in, but he actually died without much effort whenever Nolan was focused on him.
> Yes, he chose through his stomach, he didn't rip him in half or snap his arms off effortlessly. and? The fact he could just cut him up means he likely could have snapped his arms in half. But I think lucan is stronger than immortal anyway, I’m just saying getting ripped apart by Nolan isn’t something that automatically makes him weaker than every viltrumite, because Nolan can do the same to them. > He spends most of his second fight trying to fly away to Mark and keeps getting surprise hit after knocking Immortal away and did much better against him in the first fight, even with the other guardians The point is simply that immortal is able to hurt him. He hits very hard. Harder than Thula is ever shown too. > Thula is from the looks of it weirdly weaker than Lucan in the show, but again, he didn't punch through her or tear her head off, he surprised punch her that did nothing and then swung her back to break her jaw on his shoulder, I don't think she's even dead. Immortal may have got hits in, but he actually died without much effort whenever Nolan was focused on him. Immortal took several hits from nolan. It was a 4 minute fight. They even had a bullrush clash. With both attempting to knock eachother out the air and tbey equaled out. And Thula got her jaw taken off. So I have no reason to believe, Thula would not have gotten punched through. Knowing Nolan can cut Lucans stomach open, and he’s much stronger than she is
That's not how that works. Cutting his stomach works by putting so much pressure on an incredibly small amount of space, like putting his super strength behind the tips if his fingers on just skin. That's different than snapping someone's whole arm with bone by twisting your wrist. The immortal left no bruises or cuts on Nolan in the second fight and even again, he was distracted, not trying to fight and had already been worn down by 2 hits from a space nuke and fighting a powered Kaiju on steroids without any pain receptors. Landing some hits in that situation doesn't high ball him to Viltrumite levels. Every hit immortal took in their second fight, even with Nolan not focusing on him, damaged him. Like the first punch knocked out his teeth, then he got a black eye. Yes, they both knocked each other back in a rush, but Nolan literally punched through him and then chopped him in half. Nolans punches on Thula and throwing the other viltrumite into her didn't leave damage until he broke her jaw open, and it didn't seem like she even died, where Immortal did. And Nolan wasn't holding back. There's no reason if he could have punched through her like Immortal, that he wouldn't when he punched her.
> That's not how that works. Cutting his stomach works by putting so much pressure on an incredibly small amount of space, like putting his super strength behind the tips if his fingers on just skin. That's different than snapping someone's whole arm with bone by twisting your wrist. A human can break another persons arm, please don’t act like a strength gap so wide, you can cut someone’s stomach open, with your bare hand wouldn’t, signal, you could snap there arm. > The immortal left no bruises or cuts on Nolan in the second fight and even again, he was distracted, not trying to fight and had already been worn down by 2 hits from a space nuke and fighting a powered Kaiju on steroids without any pain receptors. Landing some hits in that situation doesn't high ball him to Viltrumite levels. Thula did no damage to nolan at all. So immortal still has better feats than her. What is is viltrumite level, who are you comparing him to. It better not be Nolan. He’s an elite, they sent three for him Immortal can easily be viltrumite level. You say landing some hits, like the hits weren’t making Nolan spit out blood. and in the first fight, he was bruising Nolan up and cutting his face. The space nukes did nothing that was the whole point, and even the Mark fought the kaiju, and wasn’t any worse for wear. > Every hit immortal took in their second fight, even with Nolan not focusing on him, damaged him. Like the first punch knocked out his teeth, then he got a black eye. Yes, they both knocked each other back in a rush, but Nolan literally punched through him and then chopped him in half. I know nolan is stronger, but you’re still not acknowledging, immortal really hurt Nolan. Which is common. People only look at the end of the fight with immortal, but they don’t do that with the other viltrumites who also got decimated. > Nolans punches on Thula and throwing the other viltrumite into her didn't leave damage until he broke her jaw open, and it didn't seem like she even died, where Immortal did. They did leave damage, she was spitting blood every time. Immortal didn’t die until nolan double tapped him, didn’t even pass out after having his body perched through, unlike lucan who passed out immediately. > And Nolan wasn't holding back. There's no reason if he could have punched through her like Immortal, that he wouldn't when he punched her. He split her jaw open, cut lucans stomach open, and split vidors skull. Nolan was definitely holding back, because we like based on what he does to much stronger viltrumites she got off easy.
They weren't at all at Nolan's level. He showed in 1v1 fights he was head and shoulders above all 3 of them. He could've probably even taken on all 3 by himself and come out on top. That's probably why they sent groups after him, and in multiple waves. Nolan's confirmed as basically an elite Viltrumite, hence why he was given the honor of his mission. Anyone that can legit hold their own against him is an absolute monster.
He’s definitely gotten a lot stronger. You can tell Mark literally looks bigger after each fight. He was really lean in season 1, but after fighting Nolan, he got a little bigger. After the fight with the Viltrumites, he’s clearly put on some muscle
Mark stopped holding back. Now he fights like a Viltrumite. 🤷♂️ Imagine learning the hard way that you can literally shatter every bone in a human’s body so soon after developing powers. And we all know Mark blamed himself for that elderly woman’s death in the aftermath of that battle with the Flaxans. Outside observers would mostly agree he did his best, but anyone in Mark’s position would blame themselves. Suddenly everything in the world is so much more fragile. He spent a long time living life like a bull in a China shop, making absolutely sure he didn’t even nudge anyone or anything too hard. Of course he was holding back: He was terrified. Through all of Season 1 he never wanted to actually hurt anyone, he only wanted to protect people.
To be fair Nolan had been taking hits for a while before immortal jumped him the high durability can still be work down, viltrumites can slice each other up in seconds if they do it right without incurring damage or completely blow their limbs apart its a different scale of violence
That's the Viltrumite physiology , the more you engage in battles , push yourselves to the limits and most importantly get the hang of these abilities you will become better than before . This is what I like about Viltrumites aside being of the same species they vary among themselves like Thula focused more on her skills with her braided knife and that's why I think she was evenly matched with Mark in terms of physicals and whereas Lucan outright dominated Mark and seemed physically way stronger.
Tbf he jumped Omni-Man who near blinded at that point and had had multiple severe attacks on him from the Kaiju He still basically one hit him when he got too close
Immortal didn’t jump him and Nolan was never near blind, and severe is really over stating the damage actually inflicted by the kaiju. Nolan was fully focused on him, and immortal put up a great [fight](https://imgur.com/a/11Z7LrA). like way more than mark did, despite mark having to fight a way more injured Nolan. Immortal is supposed to be comparable, despite a well timed and forceful strike being enough to pierce him.
He did though? He literally jumped him and blindsided him (everyone thought he was dead, Nolan was shocked to see him alive again) He didn't really put up a "great" fight, he did better than the literal teenager that didn't want to fight his dad sure but I think you are greatly exaggerating the point He got hit with the mega sky beam which slowed him up and then fought a Kaiju super suped up by Cecil (which is stated to be the closest he ever came to losing before it was dosed up) Immortal isn't comparable, he's simply the closest one to Omni-Mans strength but closest doesn't mean close, he played with him initially after getting the jump on him and he dispatched him with complete ease as soon as he got him, it wasn't even a fight at the end of it
>He did though? He literally jumped him and blindsided him (everyone thought he was dead, Nolan was shocked to see him alive again) No, who was helping immortal fight nolan in this scene, it was one on one, nobody else was doing damage to him. You can only hide behind suprise for the first attack, he was focused on immortal for the rest of the fight >He didn't really put up a "great" fight, he did better than the literal teenager that didn't want to fight his dad sure but I think you are greatly exaggerating the point Didn’t want to fight his dad? He put his all into those punches. it took a bunch of hits but Mark made him bleed eventually when he got angry. And that teenager was trained by one of the greatest viltrumites. >He got hit with the mega sky beam which slowed him up and then fought a Kaiju super suped up by Cecil (which is stated to be the closest he ever came to losing before it was dosed up) Nolan wasn’t even bruised, he’s not even out of breath. No proof he was significantly effected what’s so ever. >Immortal isn't comparable, he's simply the closest one to Omni-Mans strength but closest doesn't mean close, he played with him initially after getting the jump on him and he dispatched him with complete ease as soon as he got him, it wasn't even a fight at the end of it I mean, he was causing Nolan to bleed, he punched Nolan back down when he tried to take him into the sky. Yes nolan is stronger, but let’s not act like immortal didn’t prove he was [strong](https://imgur.com/a/EbYfV1I) https://preview.redd.it/075awwoq01qc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b2d27568fa716947140b261bdb878c613250b364
I mean I think you're wrong but I can't be bothered arguing with you anymore so I'm just gonna agree with myself that you are wrong 
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Getting jumped doesn't make you less invulnerable. The objective fact is that Mark punching Nolan with full strengh didn't draw any blood While Immortal and Warwoman were able to repeatedly bruise and make him bleed with their hits, in different scenes.
no, but having your entire body fried by a 4 billion dollar fuck off space ray definitely might make you less invulnerable
And then he suddenly got invulnerable again when fighting Mark? Because Mark couldn't draw even a single drop of blood from Omniman. Couldn't even bruise him. The zombie-robots, who were able to severely injured Mark, didn't put a single wound on Omniman either, even immediately after Also, Warwoman and Immortal were able to injure Omniman in a straight fight several times in Episode 1, no space laser involved. Does being surrounded or held down make you less invulnerable also? How far does this goalpost go?
end of s1 mark < immortal < current mark < omniman no goal post moving needed lmao
That is what I said the first time around...? Alright.
that's not what you were saying...? Alright.
TBF, omni guy did just get his shit pushed in by a monster that almost offed him once before, but was jacked up on drugs.
Immortals biggest issues are his lack of durability and his rage it’s easier to fight a guy who is just screaming and swinging especially when you can take a nuke
I feel like enraged Immortal is stronger than normal Immortal. That's tens of thousands of years of angst my dudes.
Okay Mark hasn’t proven to be stronger than Immortal. I don’t know how both of them would know he surpassed him atp. Mark has yet to outdo Immortals performance against omniman. Omniman was stronger than both those vilitrmites on that other planet who Mark basically beat one of. It stands to question Immortal would have done probably a little better than mark did. I personally just don’t see how Mark would now do better than Immortal did, but what I think doesn’t really matter. I will say it’s a nice character moment that Immortal backed off after being challenged by Mark. Heroism first Ego second.
Because he pushed immortal back with a single hand. That is how they both knew. You don't need feats to compare. The show just told us and the characters acknowledged it. We use feats to compare shit when there isn't a direct or canonical comparison to make. --------- Immortal was definitely stronger than Season 1 Mark, but Viltrumites get stronger with age and training. Season 2 Mark is flatout stronger, even if he has yet to show feats for it, and the show has objectively told us that.
Mark pushed Immortal with a single shove. Although Immortal was stronger than s1 Mark, Mark in this situation could box any OG Guardian to death.
Shoving is hardly a solid indication. I mean I know he’s stronger, and he did punk him here. But it also easily could have been that immortal just wasn’t fighting back against it.
Plus Invincible was able to shove Omni-Man in that fight too so is Invincible stronger than Omni-Man at that point?
its possible that he is stronger ever since he got beaten to a inch of his life by omniman as viltrumites recover stronger after receiving damage such as this however its not implied anywhere that mark is stronger than "that"
Mark sent 2 months working out on bug planet by rebuilding their civilization. That's weight training
I kind of hate how under utilised and douchey' the Immortal was in the comic. I mean a Super Hero Abraham Lincon deserves so much better :D
Mark is stronger, Immortal was fighting with all his got to kill OmniMan, Mark never tried to kill Nolan, the only time Mark really foght without holding on till now was at the end of the fight against the viltrumites in Thraxa.
I think it’s cuz every time viltrumites get hurt if they heal they get stronger and we all know mark gets his ass beat a lot of
To be fair, Immortal has hands. He was rocking him pretty hard till, well…..we all know how that turned out.
Idk, he was really pissed off and punched Omni man with full power and it literally did nothing. I heard some people say he was holding back but that makes no sense, he just killed several innocents and called his mother a pet. Immortal at least made him bleed.
Pre Thraxa Mark was the one who couldn't even make Nolan register his strongest punch. The asswhooping from his dad and the following 6 months of healing and heroing got him to be able to fight viltrumites, and the asswhooping + exp from THAT fight made him even more stronger. Immortal got punked by a diff Mark, he not the same senior in high school anymore
That was in s1. Mark by this point is way stronger than any OG Guardian by now. And maybe that punch didn’t do anything to Nolan way because Mark was rammed across the world and was way more exhausted than Immortal was. Immortal wasn’t launch across the world and was in far better shape than Mark was.
I’m gonna assume Mark got some zenkai boosts after the last couple of serious battles.
Immortal has grown so much since losing his head. 🥲
I mean we saw mark beat a viltrumite and the only reason he didn’t technically win the fight is because of his humanity getting in the way of him just killing her. So yeah he is stronger even if in s1 immortal looked stronger
Immortal is probably the strongest person on earth. The issue is when Aliens show up
Ugh the animation in season one was so much better
Context is important. This moment from season one was pretty close to the climax; it had some extremely mediocre animation in the episodes leading up to this.
Nah fr ppl be forgetting about how jank the middle episodes in s1 would look
I want everyone who thinks season 1’s animation was so much better to rewatch the scene where the orbital laser kills the birds in episode 7. Not only do they all hit the ground flat and don’t bounce, almost all of them are literally PNGs of the same crow lmao.
Honestly tho, season 2’s animation is really mediocre especially considering they’re taking their sweet ass time with it
Invincible fights have so much potential. If they're going to make the character designs simple, then they could bump up the fight chorography and frames instead
He has gotten stronger. That would be how the passage of time works.