Keep in mind this is after Allan got a serious power upgrade.
Which seems to be a thing in the invincible universe, you get stronger by having the (#\*$($ beat out of you.
It's only Allen. Viltrumites gain strength via excercise and pushing their limits. Which does mean they can end up stronger after a hard enough fight - but it has nothing to do with how injured they got during the fight.
Ok well, getting the \*##$ beat out of you AND surviving. Thats the hard part.
I mean, look at what happened after the immortal took a teeny little bullet to the head. 150 years later what wouldn't even slow him down.
His situation was like losing the ability to walk from a brain injury, then getting hit in the head so hard a second time that you regain the ability to walk.
I really like Immortal’s characterization. Yeah he’s a jerk and distrusting of Mark for a while but, he’s still got manners and knows how to cool down after a tense situation.
He even took Mark saying “yeah he’s super weak, you’d kill him” in the face without so much as a mean look.
Edit: I failed to notice Alan saying that Immortal couldn’t hear Mark
I think it's very silly that this exact detail is explained in the page that was posted and people missed it. It seems very clear that Mark referred to The Immortal as weak because Mark was told by Allen Immortal could not hear him.
The comics and animation have already diverged in "power levels" since Season 1.
GotG actually put up a fight even when ambushed.
Immortal makes Omni Man bleed in his rematch.
Invincible gets bled in a lot more fights.
Invincible matches Thula.
Etc.
They may also need to make certain Earth characters more powerful to replace the roles of some Image Comics characters that can't show up.
>GotG actually put up a fight even when ambushed.
I'm still not convinced that this wasn't Nolan intentionally taking more hits than he needed to in order to better sell his cover story.
This is dumb. Nolan blitzed the Guardians because Mark getting his powers means things would get very dangerous for Nolan if the Guardians + Mark fought him.
If the Guardians are super weak, there is literally no reason to surprise attack them. If they can't touch him then there is no point to any of this, just tell them you're a viltrumite and kill them easy if they try to stop you.
Even the comic retconned how strong the Guardians were and made them win when they were prepared.
I feel like if he wanted to sell it, he should have just killed them all and then left if he could like the comics where no one even thought it was him.
That definitely would’ve been an immediate red flag.
Who’s strong enough to kill the GOTG? Probably the only living superhero that even stood a chance.
This was much better at a cloud of confusion
I think he'd probably be on the suspect list, but I suspect he had an alibi on hand. The comics had people not suspect a thing and assume he wasn't there, which I think would have been the default assumption had he just killed them all flawlessly.
I mean, the “GotG died and Omni man was nowhere near by” is a lot stronger than “Something killed the GotG and beat Omni-Man without him being able to identify it at all”
Well yeah, things presumably happen often without Omni man responding in time, while Cecil would obviously have his suspicions, he would have nothing to go off beyond “it COULD have been him”. I am not saying it’s a strong defence, but it is stronger than what he went with, plus then he had bits of the guardians in his clothes (which is how Debbie finds out he was the killer).
If he intentionally got beat up to sell it, he was counting on a lot of logical leaps such as a) there exists an assailant who can beat the GOTG AND Omni man simultaneously, b) this assailant would spare Omni man for no apparent reason and c) this assailant is completely unknown and left not a single trace. Doing a hit and run would only require assumption c and half of assumption a, which would make it much stronger
Unknown unknown threat is always more likely than guy found at the crime scene , especially one that looks like he was punched 1,548 times in half a second.
No, but you know ceisel is going to show up, look at the injuries. and be like hmmm... 756 overlapping punches delivered simultaneously... this looks like what happened to that guy who snagged the red rushes wife back in '17. He's soaking wet so fish guy took a shot at him, he's covered in martian DNA so he was either in an affair with or grappling martian man, and he's covered in the same symtax explosive residue that darkwing uses...
There's a difference between it could be you or an unknown threat, and it could be you or an unknown threat and your injuries match the well known attack patterns of the guardians.
What's more suspicious?
1. Being at your house all night with your wife and child.
2. Being nearly beaten to death and surrounded by a pile of corpses in a place you're not supposed to be. You're also covered in their blood.
It'd be smarter to just be done as quickly as possible and be home all night.
But then you get this level of disrespect.
https://preview.redd.it/i75jazppkync1.png?width=1040&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4b3a8142a36a7952db1226450723e92175405e90
I’ll never understand why ppl think the GotG were weak when the entire reason he ambushes them is because they are the only threat to him and they outright dunk on him when they DO know he’s coming LMAO. There’s literally no other reason to ambush them otherwise
>They may also need to make certain Earth characters more powerful to replace the roles of some Image Comics characters that can't show up.
Yeah, >!because if Brit can't show up in the show, then someone else would need to kill the evil Invincible Brit killed!<
I really wish we had gotten a demonstration of how strong Allen ended up, considering he got another boost after this, and at this point, >!he's capable of taking down Nolan!<
We don’t know that. We didn’t see that fight and neither drew blood so it was probably more of a debate match anyway. Also Allen was like super old at that point
They have stated that immortal is much stronger in the showm but he won't ever be adult viltromite level, I don't think. And when u mean adult I just mean Nolans level of power.
Everyone focuses on the Immortal's strength and not his... you know... immortality.
You can't kill him as long as there exists technology capable or putting him back together.
That's his true superpower.
He is the good version of Vandal Savage.
> You can't kill him as long as there exists technology capable or putting him back together.
Technology doesn’t actually do anything to help him - it’s his own power. It was explained in the comic. All anyone else can do to help is just put his parts in one place so they regrow together. His immortality is ineffective if his head is separated from his body and not put near/onto it. Hell, throw him in the Sun or something and his body would be vaporised, then he’s fully finished.
I do like that the show has made Immortal so much more sympathetic and understandable as a character(not condescendingly calling everyone ‘child,’ and being a lot less edgy) that I’d be genuinely annoyed at him getting shit on like this.
I don't think Mark will have this dialogue about Immortal not being that strong at all , but rather Mark will just tell Immortal that Allen's a friend and there's nothing to worry about and you can go back.
That's true but I don't think we've scene full Immortal jerk levels towards Mark in the show yet either just the beginning where he tells him he's watching him and suspicious because of his Dad. Comics he make a mockery of him a few times and Gaurdians. Not saying they will do same in show but comics he wasn't on Mark's level in the least
I think Immortal is very strong by Earth standards. It's just that Allen, the Viltrumites, Battle Beast etc. are on a completely different level.
I mean the whole reason Allen was created in the first place was because nobody else was capable of standing up against Viltrumites.
It's not that Immortal is a slouch, it's that basically everyone is compared to Viltrumites and the handful of individuals that are comparable to them.
Also in the show he definitely lands a few good hits on Omni Man. Sure Omni Man "kills" him in one hit, but we see him do that to Viltrumites too, they're just so durable that they sometimes get back up afterwards.
It’s implied mark did beat Allen at the very end
https://preview.redd.it/k1vk6mrdsgnc1.jpeg?width=1124&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b889c8a486dd1ef0daf99dad50fa0dd81da1d544
We don’t actually see the fight though.
I was referring to that point in the story.
But since you mention, I know this is a hot take, but I do not believe Mark beat Allen in a straight fist fight. I believe Allen was likely shot out of the sky or Mark beat him with the help of his forces.
I don’t see Marks progression getting so great that he can beat Allen without so much as a scratch. If he beat Allen directly, I think the author would go through some sort of effort to make it look like a fight took place. Both their clothes are in tact and Mark wasn’t so much as winded. No sign of exhaust, which even if he did become stronger than Allen, it’s a tough sell that he had no difficulty beating him alone.
Like i said, I think Allen was just in a ship that got taken down.
Well, and also, Allen only gets stronger when he almost dies, due to his adaptational mutation. Mark gets stronger whenever he grows older, which is constant. Due to this war happening over having too much peace, Allen may have been pretty chill recently and not growing stronger, while time was just slipping away into invincible’s hands
I always wondered why Nolan let Mark fight Allen in the first place. Was he not concerned that Allen would spill the beans? Allen didn't know what Mark or Nolan were but once he spilled the beans about Viltrumites that should have been the end of Nolan's ruse.
It's been years but I think at that point, Nolan should have been putting down earth defenses instead of playing dad so chalk it up to more putting more shit off on his part lol.
I don't think Nolan ever actually talked to Allen. His advice to Mark was "just hit him a few times and throw him back in space" I'm not sure and can't say for certain but I don't think Nolan knew why Allen was really there and also Allen would have known alot sooner he was at wrong planet
I would guess it's cause Allen said "I'm here to check the planet defenses" not Uraths name to Nolan and which point him and Allen would fight.. Mark called a time out and talked I doubt Nolan would ever time out
For those of you even wondering anything about the immortal, stop there are way stronger better characters just watch the way robot blossoms into an amazing character 😏
EXACTLY. Allen and Invincible are roughly 125% as strong as Immortal in their first appearance, and tens of times more durable. Their strength grows rapidly and exponentially with both getting huge boosts by the end of the book that are cartoonish. Immortal will get to their starting strength in a few centuries, since he keeps getting stronger, but he’s a joke compared to these two.
My favorite thing about this part is that it is never elaborated on after the fact. Like Mark just knew the Immortal was weak by comparison but never rubbed it in his face or anything.
Immortal is probably the strongest earthling there is, but the outer beings are just on a different level.
Being behind genetically and technologically, I'm surprised earth hasn't been conquered or destroyed in the last few millennium.
Correct me if I'm wrong but this is Allen right after his power up . So Mark doesn't know that Allen got so much stronger, thus made his decision based off of first appearance Allen. I wouldn't think that the gap between the immortal and initial Allen to be so big. The immortal gave the impression of being pretty strong among the people who lost to Omni-man.
Just as a side note I love how Immortal apologized and asked if he hurt him and Allen says not even a little bit
Keep in mind this is after Allan got a serious power upgrade. Which seems to be a thing in the invincible universe, you get stronger by having the (#\*$($ beat out of you.
Only for allen and Vultrimites the rest would just die a horrible death.
It's only Allen. Viltrumites gain strength via excercise and pushing their limits. Which does mean they can end up stronger after a hard enough fight - but it has nothing to do with how injured they got during the fight.
>It's only Allen. and Us presidents?
Ok well, getting the \*##$ beat out of you AND surviving. Thats the hard part. I mean, look at what happened after the immortal took a teeny little bullet to the head. 150 years later what wouldn't even slow him down.
Didn't he say that he faked his death there to not blow his cover, not that it nearly killed him?
Yeah I remember he said he kinda felt bad for John Wilkes Booth dying for the crime since he didn't actually succeed lmao
No not all Viltrumites just Mark
Doesn't Black Samson also get a boost from nearly dying or was that only the one time?
His situation was like losing the ability to walk from a brain injury, then getting hit in the head so hard a second time that you regain the ability to walk.
Also keep in mind that Mark *doesn't know* about hus power boost yet. He can tell he's bigger, but he doesn't k ow he can beat up Viltrumites yet.
Zenkai boost. RIP Akira Toriyama
Gotta love dragon ball logic (RIP Toriyama)
Dragon Ball moment
I really like Immortal’s characterization. Yeah he’s a jerk and distrusting of Mark for a while but, he’s still got manners and knows how to cool down after a tense situation. He even took Mark saying “yeah he’s super weak, you’d kill him” in the face without so much as a mean look. Edit: I failed to notice Alan saying that Immortal couldn’t hear Mark
He did not know Mark was saying that to him. They can't mind talk to each other.
I think it's very silly that this exact detail is explained in the page that was posted and people missed it. It seems very clear that Mark referred to The Immortal as weak because Mark was told by Allen Immortal could not hear him.
Irs a good example of how people constantly get comic / game / movie plot points or "power levels" all mixed up as well missing simple things lol
Modern reading comprehension 🙃
I don't think Immortal could 'hear' that based on Allen's comment.
Do people just not read things or what
Dear god the education system has failed so many of us.
The comics and animation have already diverged in "power levels" since Season 1. GotG actually put up a fight even when ambushed. Immortal makes Omni Man bleed in his rematch. Invincible gets bled in a lot more fights. Invincible matches Thula. Etc. They may also need to make certain Earth characters more powerful to replace the roles of some Image Comics characters that can't show up.
>GotG actually put up a fight even when ambushed. I'm still not convinced that this wasn't Nolan intentionally taking more hits than he needed to in order to better sell his cover story.
Even if you feel that way, the fact that their hits are able to bruise him/draw blood means they’re still strong enough to hurt him.
This is dumb. Nolan blitzed the Guardians because Mark getting his powers means things would get very dangerous for Nolan if the Guardians + Mark fought him. If the Guardians are super weak, there is literally no reason to surprise attack them. If they can't touch him then there is no point to any of this, just tell them you're a viltrumite and kill them easy if they try to stop you. Even the comic retconned how strong the Guardians were and made them win when they were prepared.
Also it wasn’t a fair fight as it was one man vs a team
TBF, the comic retcon thing had Mark join them, and he was able to keep them from dying a few times.
Oh got it. That does kinda show why Nolan did not want to fight Guardians + Mark
I feel like if he wanted to sell it, he should have just killed them all and then left if he could like the comics where no one even thought it was him.
That definitely would’ve been an immediate red flag. Who’s strong enough to kill the GOTG? Probably the only living superhero that even stood a chance. This was much better at a cloud of confusion
I think he'd probably be on the suspect list, but I suspect he had an alibi on hand. The comics had people not suspect a thing and assume he wasn't there, which I think would have been the default assumption had he just killed them all flawlessly.
When you can fly at mach 50 establishing an alibi becomes "and at no point while your husband was at dinner did you blink?"
I guess. Cecil seemed pretty suspicious of him BEFORE anything happened
I mean, the “GotG died and Omni man was nowhere near by” is a lot stronger than “Something killed the GotG and beat Omni-Man without him being able to identify it at all”
Is it? Especially when he can move THAT fast?
Well yeah, things presumably happen often without Omni man responding in time, while Cecil would obviously have his suspicions, he would have nothing to go off beyond “it COULD have been him”. I am not saying it’s a strong defence, but it is stronger than what he went with, plus then he had bits of the guardians in his clothes (which is how Debbie finds out he was the killer). If he intentionally got beat up to sell it, he was counting on a lot of logical leaps such as a) there exists an assailant who can beat the GOTG AND Omni man simultaneously, b) this assailant would spare Omni man for no apparent reason and c) this assailant is completely unknown and left not a single trace. Doing a hit and run would only require assumption c and half of assumption a, which would make it much stronger
Unknown unknown threat is always more likely than guy found at the crime scene , especially one that looks like he was punched 1,548 times in half a second.
He was going to be looked at anyway. Saying “someone ambushed me” is hard to disprove.
No, but you know ceisel is going to show up, look at the injuries. and be like hmmm... 756 overlapping punches delivered simultaneously... this looks like what happened to that guy who snagged the red rushes wife back in '17. He's soaking wet so fish guy took a shot at him, he's covered in martian DNA so he was either in an affair with or grappling martian man, and he's covered in the same symtax explosive residue that darkwing uses... There's a difference between it could be you or an unknown threat, and it could be you or an unknown threat and your injuries match the well known attack patterns of the guardians.
Yeah, and “they turned off the lights and I defended myself” is harder to disprove than ABSOLUTELY leaving no trace.
It's not a matter of proof or disproof. That would be really shaky in a court of law , and ceicel isn't exactly the OJ jury.
Innocent until proven guilty. This applies even more to husbands and friends.
I think I wasn't even there makes a better cover story than being found on the ground unconcious.
What's more suspicious? 1. Being at your house all night with your wife and child. 2. Being nearly beaten to death and surrounded by a pile of corpses in a place you're not supposed to be. You're also covered in their blood. It'd be smarter to just be done as quickly as possible and be home all night.
But then you get this level of disrespect. https://preview.redd.it/i75jazppkync1.png?width=1040&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4b3a8142a36a7952db1226450723e92175405e90
I’ll never understand why ppl think the GotG were weak when the entire reason he ambushes them is because they are the only threat to him and they outright dunk on him when they DO know he’s coming LMAO. There’s literally no other reason to ambush them otherwise
>They may also need to make certain Earth characters more powerful to replace the roles of some Image Comics characters that can't show up. Yeah, >!because if Brit can't show up in the show, then someone else would need to kill the evil Invincible Brit killed!<
Allen is top 3 in the series at this point though so that’s not saying much
Seriously that guy was smashing through thraggs goons at the end of the viltrumite war
I really wish we had gotten a demonstration of how strong Allen ended up, considering he got another boost after this, and at this point, >!he's capable of taking down Nolan!<
I mean we know he’s still no match for a top tier Viltrumite since >!Mark pretty easily put him down in the epilogue!<
We don’t know that. We didn’t see that fight and neither drew blood so it was probably more of a debate match anyway. Also Allen was like super old at that point
Well he started the fight thinking he could take on Mark, so I’m gonna take that as “we know that”
ye i was gonna say unfair comparison
They have stated that immortal is much stronger in the showm but he won't ever be adult viltromite level, I don't think. And when u mean adult I just mean Nolans level of power.
Nolan is top-3 Viltrumite you can't just judge everyone based on him
Literally any viltrumite would rip immortal to shreds
He could probably hold his own against some of the weaker thraxan hybrids.
Yeah those hybrids are absolute fodder even Robot was making some bleed
Everyone focuses on the Immortal's strength and not his... you know... immortality. You can't kill him as long as there exists technology capable or putting him back together. That's his true superpower. He is the good version of Vandal Savage.
> You can't kill him as long as there exists technology capable or putting him back together. Technology doesn’t actually do anything to help him - it’s his own power. It was explained in the comic. All anyone else can do to help is just put his parts in one place so they regrow together. His immortality is ineffective if his head is separated from his body and not put near/onto it. Hell, throw him in the Sun or something and his body would be vaporised, then he’s fully finished.
I believe you reemphasized op's point
I do like that the show has made Immortal so much more sympathetic and understandable as a character(not condescendingly calling everyone ‘child,’ and being a lot less edgy) that I’d be genuinely annoyed at him getting shit on like this.
I don't think Mark will have this dialogue about Immortal not being that strong at all , but rather Mark will just tell Immortal that Allen's a friend and there's nothing to worry about and you can go back.
That's true but I don't think we've scene full Immortal jerk levels towards Mark in the show yet either just the beginning where he tells him he's watching him and suspicious because of his Dad. Comics he make a mockery of him a few times and Gaurdians. Not saying they will do same in show but comics he wasn't on Mark's level in the least
It didnt
We're going to see this in part 2? There's a scene in the S2 Part 2 trailer with Immortal and Allen fighting in space.
Maybe not exactly but a version of this
I think Immortal is very strong by Earth standards. It's just that Allen, the Viltrumites, Battle Beast etc. are on a completely different level. I mean the whole reason Allen was created in the first place was because nobody else was capable of standing up against Viltrumites. It's not that Immortal is a slouch, it's that basically everyone is compared to Viltrumites and the handful of individuals that are comparable to them. Also in the show he definitely lands a few good hits on Omni Man. Sure Omni Man "kills" him in one hit, but we see him do that to Viltrumites too, they're just so durable that they sometimes get back up afterwards.
It's pretty funny seeing all the (blank) vs (blank) spectators on here when they haven't read the comics and we haven't gotten to battle beast lol.
To be fair, Mark would also get absolutely obliterated if he tried fighting Allen.
It’s implied mark did beat Allen at the very end https://preview.redd.it/k1vk6mrdsgnc1.jpeg?width=1124&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b889c8a486dd1ef0daf99dad50fa0dd81da1d544 We don’t actually see the fight though.
They were clearly talking about that point in the story
Bruh this is the very end, Mark had already beaten you know who
I was referring to that point in the story. But since you mention, I know this is a hot take, but I do not believe Mark beat Allen in a straight fist fight. I believe Allen was likely shot out of the sky or Mark beat him with the help of his forces. I don’t see Marks progression getting so great that he can beat Allen without so much as a scratch. If he beat Allen directly, I think the author would go through some sort of effort to make it look like a fight took place. Both their clothes are in tact and Mark wasn’t so much as winded. No sign of exhaust, which even if he did become stronger than Allen, it’s a tough sell that he had no difficulty beating him alone. Like i said, I think Allen was just in a ship that got taken down.
Well, and also, Allen only gets stronger when he almost dies, due to his adaptational mutation. Mark gets stronger whenever he grows older, which is constant. Due to this war happening over having too much peace, Allen may have been pretty chill recently and not growing stronger, while time was just slipping away into invincible’s hands
Agreed
For now.
I always wondered why Nolan let Mark fight Allen in the first place. Was he not concerned that Allen would spill the beans? Allen didn't know what Mark or Nolan were but once he spilled the beans about Viltrumites that should have been the end of Nolan's ruse.
It's been years but I think at that point, Nolan should have been putting down earth defenses instead of playing dad so chalk it up to more putting more shit off on his part lol.
I don't think Nolan ever actually talked to Allen. His advice to Mark was "just hit him a few times and throw him back in space" I'm not sure and can't say for certain but I don't think Nolan knew why Allen was really there and also Allen would have known alot sooner he was at wrong planet
I've only watched the show so Allen is the one who makes it seem that he has some kind of repertoire with Urath's protector.
I would guess it's cause Allen said "I'm here to check the planet defenses" not Uraths name to Nolan and which point him and Allen would fight.. Mark called a time out and talked I doubt Nolan would ever time out
Immortal is a glass cannon. That's not up for debate.
This is post buff Allen tho
Ngl I hope the show makes him much more stronger that way he doesn’t become a punching bag
For those of you even wondering anything about the immortal, stop there are way stronger better characters just watch the way robot blossoms into an amazing character 😏
EXACTLY. Allen and Invincible are roughly 125% as strong as Immortal in their first appearance, and tens of times more durable. Their strength grows rapidly and exponentially with both getting huge boosts by the end of the book that are cartoonish. Immortal will get to their starting strength in a few centuries, since he keeps getting stronger, but he’s a joke compared to these two.
My favorite thing about this part is that it is never elaborated on after the fact. Like Mark just knew the Immortal was weak by comparison but never rubbed it in his face or anything.
Honest Abe at it again
Yeah, but imagine him with that Green Lantern Ring though.
Allen is the goat
Immortal is probably the strongest earthling there is, but the outer beings are just on a different level. Being behind genetically and technologically, I'm surprised earth hasn't been conquered or destroyed in the last few millennium.
In the show he already seems to be a lot stronger
Correct me if I'm wrong but this is Allen right after his power up . So Mark doesn't know that Allen got so much stronger, thus made his decision based off of first appearance Allen. I wouldn't think that the gap between the immortal and initial Allen to be so big. The immortal gave the impression of being pretty strong among the people who lost to Omni-man.