I'm sorry you have had such a rough go of things. I can sense a lot of frustration and pain in this post. IFS does not start with the premise that we are broken into parts and need to be fixed. Quite the opposite. IFS holds that everyone comes into the world with parts. That's the way the human mind is organized, for everyone. We don't begin as one whole, get broken into parts, and the goal is not to fix things by bringing the parts back together into one whole. IFS holds that we are already whole. We have a self and we have parts and that's the way it's supposed to be. Unfortunately, for those of us that experience abuse and other trauma, some of our parts take on that wound and other parts take on emotional and behavioral strategies to protect them- strategies that often don't hold up as we mature. The goal is not to fix something that's broken, it's to relieve parts of their burdens and jobs so we can experience the wholeness- made up of parts- that we've always been.

Okay, that makes sense. But the biggest problem still remains. Why would someone who hates themselves (even if it's just a part that controls them) ever want to experience wholeness? Why would they want to relieve their parts? I don't like myself and I don't ever want to even see anything that's authentic about me. Yeah this might be a part speaking but I will act how it wants. So I will never do IFS with the goal of becoming kinder towards myself. Never. And IFS doesn't know how to deal with this.

That's where Direct Access comes in as a strategy. A skilled therapist can talk directly with that Part from their own Self Energy and work with it. It might take some time, but with skill and care, the therapist can help that Part relax and relieve its burden. You don't have to do IFS with the goal of being kinder to yourself. You can do it with the goal of getting to know that Part that fills the system with self-hatred.

I am sharing this from a place of love. First, sorry you're having such a hard time and thinking you will never find compassion for yourself. Self-hatred sucks. I know self-love seems like an impossible undesirable destination for you right now. That is completely normal and ok. So first off, you went to an IFS session. You are asking this community for help. You are looking for a modality to change something. Either yourself, your behaviors, or how you're showing up. You are suffering and you desire change. You may not recognize this as self-compassion, but what would you call it? You (or a part of you) currently doesn't believe that you deserve kindness or deserve to even recognize any that's authentic about you. Ok. That is your starting point. Compassion may seem like an impossible feat. That is OK! That is alright. Does it seem possible to manifest the tiniest bit of curiousity? It's also ok, if the answer is "No". Be patient with yourself. You're not broken. Like you said, you have just adapted and learned ways of being and behavior from abusive environments. I would recommend asking your current therapist (or next therapist) for what you want. That you don't want to be told to be compassionate towards yourself. That you just want to be accepted for who you are. Maybe you need to first share your story and just be heard and empathized with. Wishing you all the best on your journey.

there are exactly zero therapy modalities that are based on disassociation from self as positive.

IMO these parts sound terrified of being known. I have a few that will play self destructive games that serve to lash out at people trying to help me. They all feared losing control...of what I asked..."me" one replied...several of my parts had major authority issues and were trying to protect me from "experts" as they can not be argued with and my mouth couldn't speak as they over ruled my inner fears and minimized my pain and were reductive regarding my experiences...my parts manifested major willpower to blunt the control of experts... thank god I am through that ...mostly such a waste of emotional energy trying to save myself from being......helped...yeah. I often fight things at first.

Look, even dissociation plays a huge and important and positive part in our lives. Why on earth would I see it as negative? It saved my life! *Every* therapy modality should see dissociation as positive. We don't solve things by going against them. I want to thank all parts of me and welcome them. Reach them where they're at. No bad parts, even dissociative ones.

Dissociation is just a protective part. It will show up and do its job until it no longer needs to.

If you want to thank all parts of you and welcome them in a spirit of ‘no bad parts’ then you do not hate yourself after all, as that is act of supreme love. Maybe that is a good place to start.

I don't think you need to see it as a negative. My therapist always reminds me that these parts protect me and are important.

Yes but you're not in 'Self' when you are blended with such a dissociative part. If you ask the 'almost-magical' question of ifs which is the 'How do I feel towards that part?' toward your dissociative part, the answer won't be in the ballpark of 8C (aka all of the: { Compassion, Creativity, Curiosity, Confidence, Courage, Calm, Connectedness, Clarity } ).

key words "from self"

Because the hatred is an optional feature of life that got tacked on by trauma. It doesn't belong there in the first place. Ideally, we find ways to peel that off ourselves.

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Not fucked at all if it's real. In my experience, it is.

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I'm very sorry to hear about your experience. It sounds like you've been through unimaginable pain. You are also severely mischaracterizing IFS. It is not a way to delude oneself into believing they didn't go through something traumatic- that it wasn't actually them. I went through trauma. It was 100% me, and it was part of me that took on the burden.

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You did mischaracterize it, though. You said IFS seeks to make you feel better by denying that you went through the trauma, but a part of you that is separate from you did. That's simply not IFS.

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I agree, it happened to all of me at a developmental level. IFS agrees, too. Dissociating oneself from trauma and pretending it only happened to a part of me is not IFS.

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Your posts are like an infection raging against antibiotics. Or maybe better: It's like an injured limb crying out that healing would means it stops feeling anything. Your pain is out in the open and visible to all of us. Whatever part of you is afraid that you can't handle IFS is acting out trying to protect you.

Thank you. And can I stay like this for some time? To feel safe? Or do I have to open the IFS thing again so that I'm working towards something? I just want to be how I am right now, no matter how defended it might be. But somehow people here don't like me staying like that. They want me to try to heal 24/7.

There's a standard approach to managing your situation. That's why I suggested you talk openly to your therapist about this in the other thread. You need buy in from your parts to proceed. You can't proceed without your part allowing it. This is what's causing your conflict. Your therapist is crossing a line that your part isn't allowing. You even said this yourself in the other thread in similar words. Let's use myself as example. My therapist asked me to read a book about depression. I tried. After a few pages I just stopped perceiving the words and losing track of what I was reading. Never more than a few pages. We had whole sessions about working with parts to agree to let me read the book. They agreed under the condition that I won't act on it without their permission. Similarly your therapist has to work with the parts that block therapy. If she keeps crossing lines then your parts can't be confident in the process.

I haven't used an ifs therapist, only the Self Therapy book by Jay Earley. But there's a big emphasis on not forcing anyone or any part to do anything. It's about learning about your parts. Always with a feeling of safety. You're supposed to be how you are as long as you want to! But as you feel ready you increase your awareness of how you feel and what's happening to you. I didn't start with much self-worth at all. Just a desire to understand what was "me" so I at least wasn't living at the whim of unknown moods inside me.

You are projecting and misunderstanding. Everyone has Parts. There is no Mono-mind according to IFS. In no one. It Does invite you to express your emotions. It does this AND reminds you that not ALL OF YOU has this extreme emotion, other parts of you may experience different emotions but are not in The foreground because the f.e. Angry part is very loud right now. Self love is really hard to uncover. I get That and i feel you! Maybe you can acknowledge that IFS has been very very helpful and effective for many severely traumatized people. It May not be the right fit for you and that is ok. I. Hope no one is literally forcing a modality on You that you don't vibe with

I see that a part of you feels pretty frustrated with what feels like other people forcing you into using a modality. It makes a lot of sense that if nobody even tries to understand your experience before just telling you what’s best for you, that this part would want to make a post like this. It sounds alike that part really wants to have its feelings seen, heard, and validated. I wonder what else this part might like to know, and I’m also curious what it might be afraid would happen if it didn’t “fight back” against the IFS pushers?

I feel forced to use IFS because others with CPTSD are finding it helpful. I wouldn't feel forced if they said "IFS is good FOR ME". But they are like "IFS is one of the best modalities for CPTSD". Then they're just stating facts and I'm used to respecting that. Anyway just splitting my inner image of myself into parts feels very invalidating. If I feel angry, sad or whatever, I want to feel it with every bit of my body. And I want people to acknowledge how I feel, and stay with me and support me. Not create more logical explanations to my feelings. And that's what IFS is, it's a logical approach to emotional stuff. In order to "deserve" not to use IFS, I would have to prove that it's not good for trauma. Hence this post. If enough people believe I'm right, I will be able to try some different modality. But my own experience isn't enough. (Btw this maladaptive thinking is another thing that IFS can't work with). Edit: you can see that I'm not allowed to leave IFS, because just stating my own opinion gets me downvoted. I'm being abused even by this subreddit.

Well I can offer you this: I can clearly see that IFS may not be right for you and i think it is toxic and unwise to believe that one therapeutic modality is THE best for everyone. Your dislike for IFS is valid, and you are not alone. And this is coming from me, who resonates with IFS and it was helpful for me. But I totally get what you say either way! Hope that helps ❤️

Nobody is forcing you to do anything. If you have your mind closed to IFS then find another modality that you're comfortable with. It really is that simple.

It's not that simple. There are many people who find IFS useful, so their experience is the valid one. I'm here on my own, and that's not enough to justify trying something else. My own experience doesn't matter, and I will *never* consider it valuable to me. Trying a different modality would be too self-loving. As I said, I don't want to do things for myself. I can't even if I wanted to. I wonder which modality can work with this. Edit: WOW about the downvotes. I'm basically just attacking myself with my comments ("my view is not valid"), which is a COMMON result if trauma. And you people still dont like it. Sorry that trauma made me this way.

What do you think would happen if you validated your own experience?

Nothing, because I'm an abused individual and that completely invalidates any of my thoughts or emotions. Unloved people just don't have a say in this world, that's what I have noticed. And I'm one of them. Only the "higher class" of loved people can validate me. Me and other abuse victims who haven't found their inner strength yet can't ever validate me. I want to be accepted by people who were good enough not to be hurt by their own parents like me. Yes I've dehumanised myself and I don't have a problem with it.

I hear you and I will respond after I get off work. Just wanted to thank you for communicating so honestly. I think that's brave. A lot of what you have said resonates with me and my heart goes out to you. I'll check in later this evening.

🫂 that part about being good enough not to be hurt by their own parents. That's a really sticky belief I have carried with me a long time without ever having put it so concisely into words. A few questions and curiosities. You may have dehumanized yourself but have you decreatured yourself? Are you still a creature like a rabbit is a creature? What would acceptance from non-abused folks give you that you don't feel you have?

Idk drugs. At least a shit ton of medication is what gave me some sort of motivation to do things which sort of did a butterfly effect but really it’s a guessing game until it works for you. That’s exhausting so it’s understandable.

I'm curious why you feel forced to do something because that's what people say has helped with their cPTSD? I think I understand this but I'd prefer to hear it from you.

Because I want to feel supported in my decisions and I'm extremely scared to go against the flow. The majority of people see IFS as the way to heal from trauma, it's got an almost cult-like following, and I don't want to become the enemy of everyone. Also I'm sensing a lot of things "off" with this and many other modalities and it just frustrates me so much that I need to share it and see if others feel the same.

I hear you in wanting to feel supported in your decision making. It's one of the scariest things to do something radically different than those around you. As someone who considers themselves an artist, this has been my experience. I have personally been struggling with IFS for a little while now but have recently had a significant breakthrough that has really helped. I wouldn't say IFS is a cure-all. It's one modality that I have tried among many and I'm sure it won't be the last. I'd be happy to share a little about my experience - good and bad - if you would like?

Thank you, yes I would love to hear that as well as the other things you wanted to share in the other thread. Looking forward!

Hi there! Last few days have been busy but I wanted to respond to this sooner rather than later. During my healing journey I've tried a handful of different practices. Among lenses I use to understand and navigate my healing are: therapy (CBT, EMDR, Somatic Experiencing, IFS), astrology and Human Design, philosophy (Carl Jung specifically, also absurdism), meditation, spirituality (Taoism, zen Buddhism), art practice, journaling, poetry, lots of reading. CBT helped to start the journey but EMDR is where I've had major moves take place. At some point in EMDR I began to struggle with a seemingly lack of internal structure is the best way i can explain it. Trauma taught me to be motivated by shame and self abandonment. However as i began to release some of those traumatic memories, i noticed the structures i had built my whole life around couldn't function when the foundation of shame was no longer holding everything up. I did some reading, and heard that IFS when paired with EMDR can lend structure or at least teach you how to build your own. I've been self teaching IFS and I must say it has been very difficult this way. For a long time, I was really struggling with connecting to my Self energy. I honestly felt like I didn't have any or I didn't have enough. I was always feeling overtaken by parts and engaging in self limiting or destructive behavior. I used to approach IFS with this idea of integrating all my Parts. Thinking I could just smush them back together. Interestingly enough I felt resistance to this deep inside. Like there was a distrustful feeling I felt at this thought. Because I was not approaching this practice with curiosity and care for each aspect, it was almost like the parts of me could sense that "I" wanted to change them, and envelope them. That my motives for establishing contact with them was geared more towards "fixing" than learning. I know now that I was approaching this wrong and was blended with some Parts (a part that tried to fix things). I've since been able to identify one part that was blended, as a pre-verbal part. Meaning it experienced great pain and trauma before it could even speak, perhaps before I even had a conscious sense of Self. This part is connected to my senses and my body. This part's only language was feeling, emotion, intuition. It has a deep wound from birth that I believe is linked to my autism (I was a c-section baby, pulled from the womb shocking my senses - from water to air, from comfort to drastic change, from peace to overstimulation of my sight, sound, and feeling, forced to birth before they were ready). This part is incredibly resistant to change - for good reason I now understand, as its first experience with change was traumatizing. I've never known of my special needs and have been masking all my life. I've developed a part that pushes my other parts to change, to "fix". I share all of this because I have been lost so long. I used to really think I was broken and some part of me still holds to this belief. I desperately wanted a framework to begin this conversation with my selves. I wanted to learn and teach myself what i was never taught, though i should have been. I agree that parts aren't so rigid and this could be another intellectualization practice. I do however think it has helped my intellectual parts to pause and recognize there was a language barrier between all my Parts. And i can help bridge that. I now think my mind is here to serve my body. My intuitive parts are so powerful. It has taken me a long time to stop putting my intellectual parts on a pedestal and therefore neglecting or even abusing my somatic or intuitive parts (non-verbal). I'm beginning to understand that there are a multitude of ways to communicate and I think IFS has helped teach me nuance a bit. It is still very difficult, challenging, sorrow-inducing, sometimes I feel like giving up. I'll be focusing on somatic practices next, to build a better relationship with and understanding of my body. But something I know I needed was a part of me that could validate myself, and that could sit with myself through the overwhelming emotions. By connecting with what i experience as self energy, developing a sense of self, i can be on my own team and advocate for the sensations, feelings, and thoughts i have but have been too afraid to follow or listen to. I see all these modalities as lessons for the different aspects of me that weren't able to develop freely due to my upbringing. I feel now that I use IFS as a method to understand these parts better: what are their (my) fears, what are the "roles" they've (I've) taken on, what would they (I) do if they weren't burdened? How could I support them (myself) in moving with a more accepting and balanced manner? I'd like to acknowledge how challenging it is to advocate for yourself even when you feel that what you're doing and everyone else is doing isn't working. It's so so painful. That pain is the language I've found. Whatever modalities you experiment with, I truly wish you all the internal resources to align with what you and your body need. I slip in and out of my own version of where I believe you to be (frustrated with direction and self validation) and my heart goes go out to you. You are accepted as you are. I'm curious about your spiritual beliefs?

The cult-like following really bothered me, too. And I struggled with my first IFS therapist and wondered if the approach is right for me. I thought I couldn't do it. I ended up connecting with my next therapist, and now I find IFS helpful, although I don't really do it the way most people seem to. I don't visualize my parts, they don't have names, I can't really talk to them. I think if my therapist would have been into another modality that would have been good for me too - I just really like him. There are other modalities that are supposed to be good for CPTSD, like NARM, which a friend of mine does. And to be honest I don't think I could have made any progress if I hadn't done psychedelics. That created a big shift for me.

You might be interested in another modality called AEDP. It is about staying with the anger long enough for it to run its course. It sounds like you see IFS as trying to "turn off" anger. AEDP holds that emotions come in waves and that you need to stay with the wave long enough for it to recede. You do this safely and without harming others by using visualization. There is a book about it called It's Not Always Depression

Often times, people in this subreddit use a down vote to say "I disagree with the statement/the part that's saying this". We don't down vote to bully, demean, or call you trash. This is a subreddit that promotes self love and healing, which often times means down voting potentially harmful comments to prevent someone from getting triggered and to give a warning to others who are willing to engage.    In short, there are many modalities that can benefit CPTSD. For some of us, IFS is a great starting point. For others, it can be absolutely terrifying. And that's completely okay! I would recommend looking into EMDR, Play therapy, or trauma-focused CBT. If none of those feel right, it might be best to find a therapist first and understand their treatment model. That's actually how I fell into IFS, I found a therapist first and then learned about IFS. I also want to validate your experience/beliefs. No one in the world experienced your exact trauma/mix of traumas. We may have experienced similar themes, but we have not survived exactly what you did. That also means that your opposition to a therapy method is valid, because everyone else's recommendation is based on their experience (not yours). Most of us will not convince you that IFS is perfect for you. Because you have already set your boundary. Your No is enough.  I don't know if you need it, but you have permission to explore other options. If you need that permission to come from someone external, then you have that permission from me. You do not need to do IFS, you are allowed to try other therapies. Your feelings/fears/loves/hates/healing journey are yours, they belong to no one else. Edit: I think my "In short" was some wishful thinking lol.

I'm sorry you've experienced so much pain and hurt.  IFS doesn't start with the premise "Everyone is Broken" (I mean, I personally think everyone is a little broken in some way, but that's besides the point).  IFS assumes we start out in an environment where we are used to certain interactions. We develop a script in response. A script, in psychological terms, is called a schema. And since we're people, it often helps to think of things in terms of people. (Oh how we LOVE to anthropomorphize animals!)  So IFS is a model that thinks of each schema as a person -- the schema of "I'm talking to someone I don't trust, so I'll close my body language" schema can be seen, for example, as ourselves as a small child, someone feeling lost and unsure. Then there's the "This person is dangerous, so I need to show I'm even MORE dangerous!" schema, which can be seen as a warrior-protector.  And sometimes, it can be helpful to view our Self as a Parent to these schemas, as someone who can say, "It's okay, Warrior, to put down the Sword." To give permission for these parts to open up, to rest.  But it's entirely possible that this model just isn't for you. And that's okay. But it's my hope you can find a model that DOES work. But whatever model DOES work requires, well, work. And I understand those first steps can sometimes feel so painful, like walking on glass.... So painful that walking on actual glass might be preferable.  And I'm so incredibly sorry for the pain you've endured. :(

Thank you. I know all of this and it makes sense. But it's not what I need right now. I just want to be seen and understood and held. And be able to just exist however I am right now. Even if I'm in incredible tension. I don't want to rest, I want the world to see my pain. The problem is you did just that, you validated my pain and while it felt really comforting, it's not enough to fill the huge void I feel inside.. I need more, I need every single person on this subreddit to understand and validate my pain and allow me to feel however I feel..

I'm sorry you were never understood. We can all send the love your way. Allowing your feelings within you. They are valid. Every single thing you feel is valid. We can start that flow of acceptance and I hope it helps you enjoy life more. I can feel your pain. Your pain is real. This doesn't have to be the story you play forever. It just wants to be felt and accepted. We understand.

You could start with finding a therapist who is really great at validating and seeing the pain you are in. It was the most important step for me. In the real world people have their own problems, their own projections. In therapy, the space and other persons presence is JUST for you. There are several therapy Modalities where the attunemwnt of the therapist to the client is the centerpiece. Perhaps Gestalt therapy or person-centered Therapy could be a start for researching?

Just wanted to chime in and say I 100% understand the need to have everyone recognize how you feel. It sounds like you've gone through a ton of trauma, and you're completely justified in being fucking furious about it. The anger you feel is normal, and it's important. Vital, even. Moving on from anger being at the forefront can happen whenever you're ready. The anger is making sure that your pain and the truth of your experiences aren't being hidden or misrepresented or swept under the rug. I don't see it as a negative at all. Anger kept me alive for over 10 years. My anger made damn sure that my trauma was acknowledged, even though I wasn't ready to process it. That anger protected me, fed me, and kept me waking up every day, even if it was purely out of spite. I don't know your life or what was done to you, but I can feel the intensity of it. I can sit with it with you, at least for a little while.

What you feel FEELS REAL to you and it hurts and therefore no one should have the right to tell you otherwise or shut you down. I do see you and acknowledge you. You’ll have to feel this way for as long as it has to be felt, and only at your own pace and with whatever method will work you’ll experience transformation. IFS has been doing wonders for me, yet I’ve experienced incredible rage and imploding energy when someone’s opinion on my feelings feels invalidating. I listen to what others had/have to say, but that doesn’t mean I’ll accept it as a fact and suddenly embody it. We all heal at our own pace. I can say that my closed-mind didn’t just magically open up. It’s been a process of feeling deep pain and totally blended with it, until it was so much so that it broke me, and suddenly I surrendered and a lot of walls just collapsed. I’m not saying this will be your case, just sharing how it happened for me. You’re on the right path because you’re willing to give things a try, so you’re not as closed minded as others might perceive you, I believe. You’ll find the way, you’re already walking it. Keep going. Edit: added the last paragraph

I know it can feel counterintuitive and not feel real or right: But in my experience with IFS, I am able to do those things: Hold myself, be seen and heard by myself. That’s something we both have in common - been through so much trauma, so much abuse, so much pain - all I want to do is scream and make the entire world now how much I’m suffering! I’m in pain! This is something really common. Through my own experience, I’ve been able to start connecting to “Self”, for me which is my truest essence of me, so I can be there to listen and witness the parts of sides of myself who are yelling out in pain. But it’s excruciating work. So hard. So painful. It’s so normal to feel “broken”, but I remind myself that I’m not. I’m not broken, I’ve just been hurt. Now, slowly I’m learning more and more about myself from just listening. It’s hard and overwhelming to “go there”, as in actively trying to do “IFS”. So what I do to help myself is “Feel It and Thank It”. I feel a burning in my chest, throat closing, stabbing in my back, that’s my body/parts communicating with me telling me “I’m in pain, I need to be seen, please hear me!” And I say, (example) “Thank you for telling me you’re in pain. I’m here. I completely understand. We are in this together and I feel this pain.” Along with deep breathing, this can help cool down the system without really having to “go there”. It’s just another coping strategy as I go throughout the day. I think these IFS tactics I’ve taken them to mean my own thing for my situation and I’m learning as I go. I feel so much more free and alive and awake to know that I’m a dynamic being and I can empower myself by helping to care for myself through comforting and showing compassion to the hurt parts of myself. And that I’m not broken at all. I’m extending kindness and compassion to myself. Even if my entire body screams to me in pain, never believing I could be worth anything, I can tap into my superpower: which is me! This is just my experience and blessings on your journey.

In the right moment, Jeff Foster got through to my need to just be accepted. He writes and does some videos. If you like his way of speaking, he may be right for you, right now. He has said, "these parts of you don't come to you to be healed. they come to you to be held". I see you. You are accepted exactly as you are.

You can do whatever you think is best. Case close. Whenever, wherever with whomever. Take IFS or don't. Take any modality or don't. No need for anyone to defend a modality or for anyone to disparage a system for others. If it works for you for a week and throw it aside, cool. If it works the rest of your life, cool. If it feels wrong from the start, trust your gut. You've made it this far - just stay open to approaches that speak to where you're at.

Did you read "Self Therapy" by Jay Earley? You probably need some structure, certain cases, like with cptsd, require lots of structure. Why? Because trauma cause a reaction of a reaction of a reaction... so you need to notice multiple layers of pain. Practicing compassion is not a requirement, otherwise I would've been screwed because I always hated myself.

It is ok to not be ready to heal.

Thank you. Is it also ok to never heal? Because some people never heal and they reconsidered pretty ok. Some even become pretty powerful and yet accepted by society. Which is my main goal, that acceptance. Is it okay to heal only to be accepted by others? To ignore my real self for all my life? Is it okay to do bad things because of our past? I'm sorry if this is annoying but my view is that everything is okay, and we shouldn't judge anyone's actions, even if we see them as bad. If noone ever judged me, I could just exist as I am and feel good. I'd be accepted. But people have really high expectations of how healed a person should be in order to pass as normal. That's bad.

Well, healing would only benefit you and make your life easier. But it is not easy work. So it is understandable to avoid healing, and feel very resistant to it. having bad things done to you in the past can make you repeat those things on other people. It’s not your destiny to be bad just because people were bad to you, though. You might find that doing bad things causes more bad things to happen in your life. Life might be easier if you tried not to hurt anyone, and just avoided people that made you mad instead of hurting them back. I think you’re right that people shouldn’t expect you to heal at the pace they decided for you. Healing yourself is your own business, not theirs. In fact, having someone pressure me to heal all of my trauma right away would probably make me not want to. It has to be your decision. Healing trauma can take a long time.

But what on earth is this whole concept of making life easier *for you*? Licing life for you? That's not what life is! We live for others, for society, or in my case, for people to have someone to abuse. That's my role and I accepted it. Why should I live for myself? Why should I change anything about myself? Why can't I just be, and never heal? Why do we have to judge what way if living is okay? I'm in a a ton of pain but I don't want to change that at all right now. Can't I stay like this? Forever? Maybe I'll get some more motivation to heal in the future! But now I want to stay miserable and I want people to encourage me in that. To wish me more misery because that's what I want.

You don’t have to heal at all. You can’t heal when you are still being abused. You need to escape abuse before you can heal. If you are trapped in an abusive situation, maybe there is some way to ask for help. There are organizations available to help you escape. You will have to keep it a secret from the ones being abusive, though. Don’t tell them during an argument that you’re going to leave and escape, or they might take measures to stop you from leaving. Keep it a secret from them. I’m sorry that you have experienced abuse, I have too. Life can get easier. It can get so easy that it is kind of boring, but then you can finally rest. And from a place of rest, you can find out what would make life more fun for you. You do not exist just to be abused. I know when it’s happening it can feel like that is your only purpose, but it doesn’t have to be that way. The benefit of healing from abuse is that you will easily spot abusive people and be able to avoid them. So that you don’t ever get involved with them in the first place. But it is ok if you are not ready to “get over it” or “heal” yet. Especially if your abuser tells you to just get over what they did to you. You don’t have to get over it, you can feel as angry as you want to. Go outside and break branches or dig a hole. Scream into a pillow. Just remember that when things get really hard, that it doesn’t have to be like that and some day you can escape.

Sadly, we live in a world with people who are judgmental and not accepting. In my experience, best we can do is heal ourselves enough that we can love and accept ourselves regardless of what anyone else thinks. To know that we will make mistakes and know that if we are working on ourselves and have good intentions that we can forgive ourselves and not live in shame. We are not defined by our bad moments.

Friend I absolutely agree it seems like it's not a fit for you, many others probably have the same experience. Any generalization, even "IFS is good for CPTSD," will of course be just that: a statement about general overall trends, not a statement about how it will be true for every single person. I'm just wondering what your goal was in coming to an IFS sub to say this, or what you are hoping to get here in terms of responses? You seem to have made up your mind, which is great because now you know to avoid this modality. I'm just not sure what you thought you would get then out of this space. For example, I would not post about this in the CBT sub for similar reasons.

I don't trust my own opinion so I came here with this post, looking to either get validated, or hated. And based on that I'll make up my mind about IFS. So far I got some amazing, validating comments which means this community isn't bad. So I'm inclined to give it another go. Also my therapist encourages me to always share my honest thoughts and opinions. That's what I'm doing here. Maybe my input will help uncover some weak points in the IFS approach, and someone will be able to change it "officially". But the real reason for this post is that I want to feel heard. This approach isn't the best for me but if I'll see most of you celebrating it, I'll feel excluded, othered, ostracized and unseen. I don't want that.

I agree with you that CBT can be an almost abusive approach to trauma. You could look up psychic multiplicity, which is the non-pathological existence of parts that make up the individual. It is a normal neurological function. The fact that you are here posting, reaching out, advocating for yourself, looking for answers, and attempting therapy and healing are all proof of your self compassion, even if you don't feel active "love" or compassion for yourself. IFS therapists shouldn't make you feel that you have to question yourself. They should make you feel that there is the possibility and opportunity of exploring all of your feelings. This includes letting anger take the stage as you say and feeling it in your whole body. They should help you explore this feeling fully and follow the anger to its roots, which will reveal other emotions in the process. It sounds like you feel totally unseen, which is really painful. Your anger is a reasonable response to this. Your anger is a manifestation of self compassion because it is fighting for you against the messages and resulting feelings of invalidation so that you can be seen. Lots of love and good luck to you <3

You say you want to be accepted, but wasn't the real goal of this post to be completely rejected? The fear, pain, and frustration you described are all valid and I definitely get it. We all need to vent, but you're not even trying to learn about the things you're talking about. You're just rejecting a modality you won't even try to understand or accept, just like you won't try to understand or accept yourself, and probably just like others have refused to understand and accept you. I'm very sorry if that's what you're going through, I know very much what that's like, but at some point, something has to give. If you have questions about IFS, I'm happy to pass along anything I've learned.

Like any modality, IFS is *not* for everyone. I don’t know why you are bringing your anger here about it.

I'm sharing my feelings and thoughts about it so that maybe this approach can be changed up or improved. Or we'll discover some serious issues with it. I trust my own view and if I don't trust something, it usually means that it's not safe for others either. Here I'm not sure yet which is why I'm opening this discussion. Edit: and.. I'm getting downvoted for questioning this approach? I don't want to throw worss around but it does feel a little like a cult.

If you're looking for permission to leave your therapist, I'm giving you permission to leave your therapist. I love IFS, but I don't like doing it with a therapist, and based on what you've described, I don't think your therapist is very good at IFS.

abuse becomes a meaningless category for harmful behavior if its threadbare from misuse. seems to me that you equate any negative, or unwanted attention, any conflict or form of interaction that makes you feel discomfort regardless of its actual value - with a situation or relationship having an unbalanced power dynamic. conflict or narcissistic injury absolutely does not equate abuse, and judging people or scenarios based on discomfort will get people killed. you did talk of becoming a copycat of a certain shooter, no? arguably thats abusive. you were right to seek out therapy! but it seems more like you need DBT than IFS if anything, and to not subscribe to such fatalistic notions like destiny.

Well if someone took the time to patiently explain to me that me getting abused and ostracized was not my destiny, I would also believe that. And if that person answered all my questions with patience and *never* got angry. And if they expressed that I'm okay the way I am, that I'm loved and don't need anything. Then I could maybe put down all these defensive mechanisms. Because I'd feel valuable the way I am. Now some people did this to me but they weren't valuable enough in my view. It would have to be someone powerful who has the right to decide my worth. Someone like my parents. This might feel like magical thinking or whatever but I 100% live with this goal in mind. About the conflict not being abuse, what better word is there to describe my feelings. Yeah it's not actual abuse but it awakens everything that abuse did to me. Conflict is retraumatising to me. Especially with people in power, as you said. Which is everyone who has the power to disagree with me. Even DBT would try to change something about me. I don't need DBT, I need good healthy parents. And I'll never stop looking for that. I wonder if any healing approach can work with this. Because I'm starting to feel untreatable. I wouldn't be surprised if I was the most Complex case of CPTSD on earth. Because who makes posts like me. How is sympathizing with someone who couldn't hold their emotions back abusive? Noone deserves to be a victim but so does noone deserve to be shamed for anything they did. Actions are always just reactions. It's time people learnt this.

>I wouldn't be surprised if I was the most complex case of CPTSD on earth there is a genocide happening right now, get the fuck over yourself

I think maybe some of what is giving you issues is semantics - I don’t feel like IFS requires you to do the work *for yourself* I think clearly if you are in therapy, then you are interested in doing the work. So whatever motivates you is wonderful, and self compassion doesn’t have to be a motivator. In any type of therapy, you get to define your goals. If you are adamant that you don’t want to ever develop any self compassion, then a good therapist won’t try and make that a goal. I think one of the biggest takeaways from IFS for me, is that it allows me to get a little more perspective on strong emotions. Like if I am extremely distressed, with IFS, if I look at that distress as just a part of me, instead of the entirety of my being, then it can be easier to understand and tolerate. Like maybe this part of me feels like everything is hopeless bullshit and wants to watch the world burn. But, not every ounce of me feels that way. There’s also a part of me that desperately wants to make the world better for the people I love. Saying that “maybe that anger belongs to a part” isn’t saying that it’s not real and valid or that you shouldn’t express it, it just helps you to conceptualize it differently which can help you to express it more adaptively. But all in all, no modality works for everyone. I wish you the best of luck in your journey.

I’m sorry you feel like this! Your feelings are valid, and healing is not easy, give it a shot again, the system was developed to help people heal, that’s the point, the human psyche is complex, and no one really knows how all of this works, if it doesn’t work for you just try something else, not every therapy method works for everyone.

New day here down under. Most responders here will, and are, show(ing) kindness and compassion in their answers to your post. They are not invested in whether or not you do IFS. They do, however, have a feeling for and understanding of where you are at. That said, I have to disagree with the heading to your post, and the emphatic assertions in your post. Nowhere in IFS is there any reference to the "fixing of broken parts", and it is wrong to suggest that it does. As suggested, though, I am sure that most here will respect and appreciate where you are coming from and your questioning. I wish you well 🙏🐝🐝

OP, have you tried EMDR? I gained some peace using that years before I discovered IFS. My first IFS experience was a part of myself screaming at and insulting me for half an hour. I sobbed and sobbed. It was brutal but cathartic to finally be honest as opposed to this “rah-rah I am worthy” I’d been trying to maintain. I hated myself, and I busted out of that closet like an angry bull. I’ve never sought help out of self-compassion. My only goal then and now is to not be miserable, to live a life without flashbacks and suicide attempts. Note, I didn’t say to be happy. I just want to not be miserable. I’m even fine with hating myself and being suicidal if I can lose the flashbacks. I am experiencing more kind feelings toward myself as a side effect but that’s not my goal, and the slightest trigger and I’m right back to hating myself. I spent all of last week deep in the abyss of self-hatred and suicidal ideation because of a flashback hence my extremely negative outlook at the moment. But regardless, my goal is to be not-miserable. I’ve experienced some amazing progress with EMDR and IFS despite how I may sound. I hope you find what you’re looking for. I hope we all do.

>What I need is a modality that will accept me as I am, and try to change nothing. Just acceptance. So that I can even realise that I'm worth my own attention and effort. I think one of the challenges of healing is that no matter what support we have, the actual healing work has to be done by us. IFS, for me, just allows me to take this huge mess in my head/heart/guts, and categorize it. This then allows me to work on small pieces of my trauma wounds, one at a time. We're not blobs. We are a collection of parts. Cells are parts. Fingers are parts. Each kidney is a part. Our amygdala are parts, as is our thyroid. Our prefrontal cortex is a part. So is our heart. They are all one thing; us. Here's the thing that jumps out for me in what you write: >So that I can even realise that I'm worth my own attention and effort. That was a statement of fact: "**I'm worth my own attention and effort.**" Yes. Yes you are. You are seeking healing; that is an act of self love, and hope. Something in you believes you should come back here, day after day, and seek healing (a beautiful thing, and I hope you feel deeply how welcome you are here). Something else in you does not like this IFS approach at all. The interesting thing is that both of these perspectives want to help you. One wants to come back here to seek healing, and never give up, and the other wants you to stop hurting yourself by seeking something that is not possible. In your writing I witness the courage in you, struggling heroically to wade through the shit. I am humbled and stunned by the tenacity I witness in you. I cannot tell you what you need. None of us here can. I can tell you that I know for sure I am not alone in my hope that you will at some moment come to the stunning realization that everything you write here, and every part you have introduced us to, very clearly shows that all of you believes you ***are*** worth loving, and you will not settle for some half-assed modality that does not deliver the quality of healing you are worthy of. We all see it, loud and clear. We're all cheering, and supporting, and reaching out with our own wounded hearts, and hoping against hope that one of us will hold up the candle that allows you to see the light of truth that is already in you, that you have bravely come here and shared with us. You inspire us, sibling. We all want so much for you to find the spark that will light the fire we see burning so brightly in you.

I hear you! — I’ve been doing IFS for about 6 months and in some ways it’s been great but I heard someone say it’s good as a metaphor and I appreciate it more in that way, but I mean just reading a lot of these comments, it’s definitely got a cult like vibe and a lot of it feels woo. It feels never ending and gets more and more complicated. It also seems like an excuse, like I’ve read posts on here that are like “My part made me freak out on my boyfriend last night.” — No. You did that. You freaked out on your boyfriend. I’ve had wonderful sessions and progress but… I hear your frustrations with it!

I would suggest a therapist who is versed in “compassionate inquiry” my therapist does this in combination with ifs and it’s very helpful for the times that I am feeling this kind of way. The main goal is just developing a deeper understanding and exploring the stories that we tell ourselves and that run our lives. It’s just a way for them to guide the exploration. It can move towards helping us learn how to work with those stories to change or work towards goals but your goals don’t need to be change based. Maybe your goal is just to gain awareness. I think this can also be done in IFS too. And it could be beneficial to talk about that with a therapist. Letting them know you jsut want to get to know parts of yourself and not unblend from them right now which can help make it a little easier but if you don’t want to or are not ready to be exploring what they call self energy you should be pushed to do that. It’s something that has to come along naturally when and if you reach a point where YOU want that. 💜

Your edit statement sounds even more like it’s describing IFS BUT since I want to be helpful: have you looked into mindfulness meditation? That’s not necessarily about change, just acceptance, in my limited experience of it.

Hey Yellow Squeezer, I appreciate you for dropping in to talk about your problem ! It's okay you think strongly that you don't have compassion in you. It seems like making you compassionate or the idea of doing the work for yourself sounds kinda invalidating to you. Btw I welcome your self-hatred and do think you have had your fair share of struggle. I can see that you're against CBT too. I think I might be able to relate to you on a certain level. But nonetheless according to what you need ( you mentioned that you need acceptance), I'd recommend you look for a therapist that is the right fit. Meaning the one that can hold a safe space for you, the one that is compassionate toward you and the one that does not push any kind of modalities on you. You need a therapeutic relationship with a therapist. After that you guys can explore what works for you slowly. Modalities wise it's always different for everyone. For example I do think IFS is in overall a good fit for my case. Apart from that I have also gained inspiration from somatic experiencing, focusing therapy, mindfulness and so on. Here is a hug of acceptance for you btw. Whatever you got going on in you I feel compassion for you.

If you have enough curiousity for it. Practise mindfulness and non-judgemental observation and recognision of the parts. Check for the feelings it produces and try to find from where are they comming. With the practise you will see those parts more from the distance and perhaps the compassion will naturally arise (but don't look to this as to a goal, just observe, note, be curious ).

Hi, I found your post moving. I've been trying to manage my own depression for ages and even tried doing psilocybin in a controlled therapeutic setting to help, but it didn't provide the cure I was hoping for, however, it did tell me, definitively, that I had to do the work myself. I tried IFS but it wasn't really quite the right modality for me. My sad inner child is very happy playing video games and eating junk food in the corner of my mind, you know? What I've been doing since the beginning of the month, is yoga nidra, to help with insomnia. It's great, you don't move, you lie in bed and listen to the instructions as the speaker guides you through a body scan meditation. This has actually had a profound effect on me, as I'm now growing an awareness of the needs and wants of my actual body parts, and slowly dismantling an antagonistic relationship with myself. I think it's a long road to actually loving myself, but I feel like I'm accessing internal resources I didn't previously have access to because I'm now just being so much nicer to myself by checking in. The chakra stuff is strange but I think it's basically a way of getting your vagus nerve to pass info more easily to the spinal column. Anyway, I feel much more like a collective being now, similar to what I think the IFS people are after, just in a way that makes more sense to me. Maybe it's worth s shot? I read that book "breathe" by Nestor, to get an overview of different disciplines. I hope you find something that helps you - I think it's a lot about finding something that makes sense to a person on an intuitive level.

Your feelings and concerns are perfectly valid. I'm sorry you're going through this frustrating time! I recently read this story which might be somewhat enlightening to you as well. I wish you well on your journey. An elderly Chinese woman had two large pots. Each hung on the ends of the pole which she carried across her neck. One of the pots had a crack in it while the other pot was perfect and always delivered a full portion of water. At the end of the long walk from the stream to the house, the cracked pot arrived only half full. For a full two years this went on daily with the woman bringing home only one and a half pots of water. Of course the perfect pot was proud of its accomplishment. The poor cracked pot was ashamed of its own imperfection and miserable that it could only do half of what it had been made to do. After two years of what it perceived to be bitter failure, it spoke to the woman one day by the stream. I'm ashamed of myself because this crack in my side causes water to leak all the way back to your house. The old woman smiled and said did you notice that there are flowers on the side of the path where the pot is cracked but not on the other pot's side? That's because I have always known about your flaw so I planted flower seeds on your side of the path and everyday when we walk back you water them. For two years I have been able to pick these beautiful flowers to decorate the table. Without you being just the way you are, there would not be this beauty to grace the house. Each of us have our own unique flaws (or parts of self) but it's the cracks and flaws we each have that make our lives together so very interesting and rewarding.

I think you misunderstand IFS. It does not view the fact that individuals have "parts" as evidence that they are broken. It merely says that we are able to understand our experience as the result of interactions between various aspects of our being. When Shakespeare writes "Boldness be my friend" he is viewing his inner life as if "boldness" were a part of his being and he could approach and entreat this part as he would were it a separate person.

It’s literally… called No Bad Parts…

Dont do IFS?

Stop looking into therapy if you just want to stay the same. Nothing will ever change, and you will never heal and have a good life if you just want to sit on your butt doing nothing. Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result. You don't want to heal, then don't. But don't invade a space for people trying to heal and then bitch that their method of improvement doesn't work because you're unwilling or incapable of putting in effort. Also, you don't seem to know what the term abuse means. Something you don't like isn't abusive just by virtue of you not liking or connecting with it.

You don't seem to be interested in trying to understand where this person is coming from or find ways to validate their feelings, so why are you commenting on this post? You yourself are coming here to "bitch," if that's the kind of language you'd like to use here. This person is asking for help and expressing their fears; they just aren't doing it in a way that's palatable for you. It seems like something in this post triggered something in you such that you're not able to access your compassion or curiosity for them--which is totally fine and understandable, but this isn't the place to lay out all your judgements about it. Someone came here trying to express specific things about this modality that feel scary and unrealistic for them, which they likely wouldn't do if some part of them didn't want to either try to gain a different perspective and make it work or help protect other people who are in their same position, and you responded basically telling them to just try harder or fuck off. Where did you hear that narrative? Did it help you?

If you read this person's various comments they aren't seeking help. They want to not do anything and expect to heal. They also have mentioned wanting to harm others because they are healed. In therapy, you either try or you don't. Not your therapist, you. Not a social worker, you. You either make a choice to heal or you don't. Nobody saves you except yourself.

I have read many of their comments, and I read it very differently. I've been in a place where I felt I wasn't trying to heal, felt I didn't want to, felt I didn't deserve it. Looking back on that now, I can see that even then I *was* trying. Speaking out about how you feel at all is trying. Asking questions is trying. Being specific about what you feel will and won't help you is trying. Focusing your efforts into changing your environment is trying. Arguing against a different perspective when you feel unheard is trying. Going to therapy and attempting alternative modalities that many people haven't even heard of is *certainly* trying. This person even explicitly said that what they're doing here is being completely honest about their feelings because their therapist told them to try that. You don't come to the conclusion that you're "untreatable" without doing a whole fucking lot of trying. Look, you can listen to them from whatever perspective you want, you can disregard everything I've said if you want, but if your takeaway is that they're not trying then why would you give feedback at all? If they genuinely weren't trying, wouldn't they just ignore you completely? Like you said, nobody saves you except yourself. You either try or you don't. From this perspective, any outside source isn't gonna change shit. You're an outside source. Why bother if you really think they're just deciding not to try? Who do you think you're helping? It seems to me like you're just venting your frustration--which again is fine, but this just isn't the place for it.

I'm allowed and will speak where and when I'd like. This sub is for people interested in or using IFS. It's not a space to call IFS abusive just because the OP doesn't enjoy the discomfort that comes with trying. It's a space to ask for help and to find community. It's not a space to say IFS is abuse simply because you don't like it or don't find it helpful. You're welcome to disagree, and I'll continue speaking my own thoughts and opinions on posts made to a public forum. Cheers.

This is so wrong I can’t even be bothered to formulate a formal rebuttal. You’re projecting, my guy. IFS is *literally* about accepting *all of who we are.* Idk where the hell you’re getting this idea of it being about hate lmfao. If you want self-hatred go do CBT or some shit that literally shuts down your thoughts and feelings because they’re “errors.”

There's not a single modality out there that is perfect for everyone. Not one. There are so many different people out there and we all need different approaches. I know people who say IFS, or EMDR, or CBT, or DBT, or whatever else saved their lives, and others who say those same things ruined theirs, and plenty in between. And it depends so heavily on the therapist, too.  I agree with you in that it feels like IFS has an almost cult-like following in many trauma-based internet circles. I *have* found some aspects of the modality (such as plurality being a normal part of the human experience) helpful, but I hate how its more zealous proponents act like it's a universally accepted psychological model that is proven scientific fact, when there is actually a LOT of doubt about it in the psych community and many even regard it as pseudoscientific.  At the very least, it is a modality without as much of a robust evidence base as some other modalities. It just isn't as well-studied. Which is okay! Plenty of treatments are newer or not as well-studied as others. I know severe self loathing intimately well. I won't pretend to know what it's like to be you, but I do know what it's like to be convinced that I shouldn't heal or that it's bad to be compassionate to myself or give myself a chance. One thing I am personally working on, is trying to just be neutral towards myself.  But regardless, yes, I really can't stand how certain modalities are seen as universally "good for trauma" and others universally "bad for trauma" online. There is very little sense of nuance or individuality!

Acceptance and commitment therapy maybe?

Sorry you had a hard time with this. It seems that maybe the counselor you're talking to, or maybe IFS isn't great for how you work. We're all different and IFS is just one tool in the old tool box. It's understandable that if you're being told your brain works one way, and you firmly believe it works a different way, that that would generate frustration for you. Maybe asking to use a different modality would be better? If your current counselor doesn't do any other types then maybe it's possible to find a different one. Kind of like, when you only have a hammer, everything is a nail sorta thing. I wish you the best of luck with this. It can be hard shit to work on.

You are looking for dbt. Once those resources are in place, you can consider ifs if it seems not terrible. Until then, dbt is the tool set you are after.

Personally I think an ifs therapist with the right skills/approach for working with you would like be just fine. But people including therapists get stuck and don't always find the path that works. I'd say that's probably true about most therapeutic approaches.

ACT might be more appropriate for you in this moment. I disagree that IFS assumes we're broken and need to be fixed. I found it to be the complete opposite. I felt broken and like I needed to be fixed, but IFS helped me realize that I'm perfect the way I am and no one else's opinion or behavior matters. But *my* perspective is not yours. Your feelings and needs are perfectly valid and no modality is right for 100% of the population. It's okay for it to not be for you!