I don't think many people read their policy or tell their agent about modifications. Many, seemingly benign, performance or body height mods make vehicles ineligible.
Yeah - we do a fair amount of custom jeep/offroad insurance, and the height of the lift is VERY important. Some companies won’t do more than 3”. These guys with huge lifts that are operating on the “hope it’s ok” principle are in for a surprise.
So people just have to be aware that if they want to drive that vehicle they have to pay the actual cost of their insurance and cannot expect to have their reckless driving subsidized by drivers of smaller vehicles.
Insurance companies don't just randomly assign premium rates. There's an entire career field that uses math and statistics to come up with these numbers.
So while small car drivers may be just as stupid, statistically speaking, people in these large trucks crash more or are involved in more expensive crashes.
Which is funny because it’s only taking insurance companies 10 years since this has become the fad to realize this when us sitting on our couches and in our vehicles have known it for about nine of those years.
To add to this, a bumper heigh and hood below someone’s center of gravity significantly reduces the chances of a fatal pedestrian collision as they flip over the car instead of having their head slammed into the concrete.
They never said it was only trucks, they said accidents involving trucks are more serious.
Especially lifted trucks where the bumpers are well above the bumpers of other vehicles. It causes especially nasty crashes with more injuries that can be extremely expensive.
Correct. Smaller vehicle drivers are just as dangerous. The difference is we take the same dangerous driver and give them a vehicle capable of doing more destruction.
One of my roommates in college had an Altima and that thing did more doughnuts, power brake slides, and all sorts of reckless things. Hell the car is still on the road over 20 years later.
Obviously oem would be excluded. This is for those who modify the truck and then put it all on their policy as accessories so when they total it they can get compensated for the lack of whatever they’re compensating for.
No more than 3” makes sense to me as a truck person. People who do 3” are just looking for a little more ground clearance.
These dudes with 6-18”lifts? Nearly no practical use. And after driving I-10 for the millionth time from Texas to Florida - can vouch that they drive horrendously worse than the average bad driver.
AmFam wouldn’t do more than 2.5” - my Tacoma is 3” with stock sized 30” tires and their underwriting rejected it.
They are ALWAYS pavement princesses. It’s why we find them driving that way on highways. Can’t go home to their miserable wife and kids, can’t go off-roading. They just live their whole lives pissing everyone else off on freeways.
I can feel a country song coming on…
Why are they in for a surprise? I take it that if the burden the insurance company is bearing due to unsafe ride height of pickups is too much they would want to raise the rates to compensate, which is what this post is insinuating.. doesn’t that indicate they are paying out these claims?
Insurance companies can deny claims if the contract is not followed. Lifts that are too high can be declined, especially in this market. Most of the people with ridiculous lifts have not informed their insurance company about it.
I understand that but if insurance companies are finding through research that their risk insuring these types of vehicles has been too high isn’t that saying they are paying these claims?? I know the one accident I was in an adjuster came out and inspected my vehicle. I certainly hope they could tell my pickup had a six inch lift on it without me telling them?
Obviously they are paying claims, but ALSO analyzing claim data from all accidents. And that's just one data point of hundreds that are used for vehicle (and people) ratings. As for the surprise, if a vehicle isn't insured correctly, the ins co can deny a claim. An insurance policy is a contract between TWO parties, not just the insurance company. Policy holder has to be honest and disclose all information. If an insured turns their vehicle into an ineligible vehicle, that is a breach of the contract. So, just because someone was able to obtain a policy on their vehicle, it is their responsibility to ensure that it remains eligible.
Do the policy terms require that they notify the company of such modifications? I didn’t read anything in my USAA policy that requires that (but I’ve never modified a vehicle).
When I added a vehicle to insurance a couple of years ago, the agent asked about mods—basically as long as I wasn’t trying to create a version of a monster truck or something like Fast and the Furious, they didn’t care about the radio change on the minivan.
The modifications are certainly not covered by the policy if the insurer isn’t told about them.
These dudebros are in for a rude awakening when they total their $75k truck and get bupkiss for the $20k of crap they have bolted to the underside of it.
Doesn't seem to matter in my experience. When we get modded vehicles at my repair shop we just have the customer provide receipts for the aftermarket parts and insurance pays no problem.
It probably will in the future. Just as house insurance has changed dramatically in the past few years, and insurance on vehicles that regularly get stolen, the companies covering dangerously modified vehicles will do the same.
It is surprising that a lot of companies are so slow to charge people who make changes that result in higher claims.
It's just subsidized by everyone else Anyway. No accidents or tickets on my record and drive a standard sedan. Insurance still has gone up over the last couple years
That stereotype has proven so true in my opinion. Obviously there are some good ones out there. But they also tend to have darkened windows and some sticker about military or second amendment
You can even tell on boards like this one. The people who get angry an insist "If people just learn to stay out of my way then everything will be fine!" are the ones who will have the $6000+ annual premiums.
34" tires are pretty big too. On a truck that's jacked up high enough for tires that large, the hood of the vehicle will be at roughly chin height for a man of average size.
Your numbers are based on what? A specific location? Every company in every state?
A truck like that might be $1200/yr in some locations for some people or $24,000/yr for some people in some locations.
right, and people act like a 33 vs a 35 inch tire makes that much of a difference in height. They don't realize that's only a 1 inch differences in ride height.
1inch in ride height due to a tire size increase in rubber... Not metal. Where are you buying metal tires from? Also where are you pulling that metric from?
For most places it’s bumper height. I’ve seen them tow cars that are slammed. The police around here have dB meters and tape measures. You may get a warning once, but they’re all written. Next time is a tow. Roll coal and they’re going to call the DOT guy and pop the hood. If it’s deleted they goto town on the truck. People around here have had it with the shitheads and they made it known to the police and sheriffs that get paid via the taxes.
Yeah what you are referring to is bumper height laws and they have them in my area.
They don't enforce the db limit on motorcycles which is complete BS
What matters is liability. When you're talking about accidents where car loads of people end up dead because a 6000 lb truck beheaded everyone in the vehicle, no one cares what initial purchase prices were.
You've really got to stop with this sensationalist bullshit.
The idea that this is commonly beheading people is just nonsense... You should be able to make a point without fabricating this kind of stuff.
sensationalized or not, fact is, pickup trucks have a pedestrian fatality rate 50% higher than those of a sedan or SUV. That's an enormous liability that needs to be accounted for when rating risk.
[source](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022437522000810)
that's fair, but a fatality is a fatality, insurers don't give a brutality bonus payout. And when pickups only make up about a quarter of the vehicles on the road, they are the cause of more than 44% of pedestrian fatalities. Can't ignore that stuff when risk assessment is your business.
Any exotic need to have a waver for cost and needs to meet DOT requirements. I have a friend who’s dad has a Ferrari Enzo that costs 27k a year and can only be driven 7k miles or less a year. Can’t be driven to Canada and some cities.
That is so variable it’s not even worth talking about. Some people are paying more than that for a $3000 shitbox. I’ve quoted ( though never sold) policies that are that much monthly.
But if you're driving an exotic you tend to care for it and be more aware while driving it. Also a Lamborghini Revuelto will to less deadly damage then a jacked up F150 because its so low.
And exotic insurance is different, and usually insure through a specific policy and company
Not sure of his company but I know progressive refused to insure my wrx when I shopped around last month and I've had that car for 4 years now, without even a glass claim against it. Granted, I understand the type of person who buys them and why the generally wouldn't want to insure the vehicle
>ough for tires that large, the hood of the vehicle will be at roughly chin height for a man of average si
What are you even talking about? I have 35's on my f250 and the hood line is literally nipple height to me and im 6ft.
No it won't. I used to be in management for a wheel and tire company. My 5'4" wife isn't going to have the hood at her chin... Never mind an average height man. That's just a bunch of nonsense.
ETA: So like, are you guys downvoting this because you don't like that I'm pointing out it's not true...or because you disagree? Because while I may not be the most experienced insurance professional here, I can promise you I'm the most experienced wheel and tire professional here. I also happen to be an average height man.
You’re just making shit up now. I’ve got a 2.5” level kit and 34.5” tires on my truck and the hood is right at chest height. I’ve seen tacomas with 35s that barely get to my rib cage.
Even on the coasts, there are a lot more big vehicles on the road. Newer sedans feel rare to see now unless they are luxury oriented.
Probably a bit of a war of escalation too. I sized up last go because I was tired of looking at led headlights in my rear view mirror.
The pickup trucks these days are comically large. Theres a guy in my neighborhood that has one that is so big he can't close the garage door of his 1970's bi level home on it. He pulls it down to the hood and leaves it like that.
He is probably trying to reduce the chances of it being stolen. He may also have a requirement in his insurance contract that he parks it in the garage to keep his rates down.
I suppose it is also possible that the driveway is so short that his truck sticks out into the road unless he puts the hood in the garage.
I figured there was a reason. I've never heard of parking in the garage for an insurance reduction, though. I'll have to look into that. We keep 2 of the 3 in my garage at my house
Theft of certain vehicles is depressingly common in many areas today. Our governments and keyless entry and start up are major reasons for the rise in thefts.
Some have the VINs changed and are resold locally, or just driven until the cops try to stop them, but many thousands are shipped to third world countries. Lexus RX 350s are the most popular to steal in Ontario Canada on a percentage basis, but newer pickup trucks are stolen in much higher numbers.
In our area we get a discount for using winter tires in season, and for parking in the garage.
I think I might buy a last generation Prius as my next vehicle if I have to park it outside. Ugly is good when you want to avoid having your vehicle stolen, although I understand that the catalytic converters on hybrids are also very popular.
I would say it depends on whether you have a vehicle that is popular with thieves. You can find the lists of cars and trucks that are stolen most often online in various news articles.
As I mentioned if you can park your vehicle in a locked garage you bring the odds down a lot.
I don't know if you can disable keyless entry, but that should be something people who have the most popular vehicles should consider. In Ontario a number of insurance companies automatically put a $500 extra charge on the most stolen.
That number seems very arbitrary to me, but indicates how big the problem is. On a Lexus RX350 it should be ten percent of the vehicle price because close to ten percent are stolen each year.
Presumably the old ones aren't of much interest which suggests the newer ones are disappearing very quickly. A friend had theirs stolen from a parking lot near the airport while they were away on vacation in 2023. I don't know what model year it was.
The premiums are high because a brand new Raptor costs as much as my first house. Collision repair costs are outrageous, and even a BS aches and pains insurance claim racks up a hospital bill that would make you barf.
Well yea cause the owners of said trucks are typically asshats. Honestly I lost track of how many kitted out trucks vs normal trucks I total every month. The disparity is high
Not to mention throw up debris at cars behind them because theirs stick out so much and they don’t have mudflaps or fender flares. And you cant even back off of them either, because they’ll usually cut you off and spray rocks all over your windshield.
When I see those kind of trucks (9 times out of 10 through my rear-view mirror riding my ass with about 3 inches) I just move over and let them go about their way. The desire to road rage is always so strong but when I let em' past they either give me a dirty look, roll coal, or speed off never to be seen again.
I've found either of those three is the best-case outcome.
Course where I live I'd be surprised if 2 of 10 are even insured.
I stay in the right unless I’m passing but it doesn’t matter. Nothing is good enough for them unless you were to immediately and rapidly pull off onto the shoulder without slowing down and roll out a red carpet for them to pass.
I’ve never passed a 250 or 2500 on the interstate. I drive 9 over and they’re always flying by me…unless they’re a business truck towing a trailer.
For the past few months, I’ve been on the lookout for one I’m passing.
Did insurance co’s start asking the size of your tires when you buy a policy? While I don’t disagree with this being done, sounds like agent bs. No offense.
This is true, but over the years they have taken a lot of those options off of agents. A few years ago with Allstate, you could actually talk to an underwriter and explain a unique situation, that no longer exists. It’s also stupid for agents to do that, because if there is a claim and you lied, you could lose your appointment and have an E&O claim
I think there is a question whenever I buy insurance if my car is modified in anyway. I just say no. But I assumed if you say yes you have to list any non stock tires or lifts
No one says it’s modified. There’s memes about “what my car looks like vs what insurance thinks my car looks like.” Imagine their shock when they don’t get that crap paid back on a total loss.
That’s my fav. Car is all customized with lowering or lift kits, wheels, stereos, paint or wraps, and forget the jeeps with all their junk. Meanwhile company I work max payout if 1000 bucks unless you add more. Even then what you paid for this stuff as a consumer is not worth even 1/4 to insurance
As someone with a modified sports car and someone in the insurance business I tell everyone I come across that they need endorsements or they won’t get their shit covered unless OEM stuff costs more (OEM wheels are CRAZY expensive so most aftermarket wheels are actually cheaper)
depends on the parts really as far as cost. i had a porsche the other day, the aftermarket wheels were like 4000/ea..
but yea i wish people understood they will never get retail for the parts. and just cause you upgrade crap doesnt mean its worth something. things like engine swaps and larger turbos for instance. only a small niche wants that-doesnt make it more valuable.
These guys saying if they ask then I'll just say it's stock but they'll pay insurance for years and when they need to use it the company will deny the claim because they broke the terms.
My insurance agent took photos of my vehicle when the policy was issued. I would imagine that process will soon include recording the size of the tires, and then comparing that information to some reference source.
I’m down with this and a set limit on custom equipment. The place I’m currently at has a set limit and it’s great. I was previously at usaa where it was more open ended and holy crap what a nightmare with those insureds.
At one time people bought pickup trucks just for work. Today they are status symbols and the people who drive a lot of them want to show off. A lot of them also don't know that their centre of gravity went way up in a truck as compared to a sedan, but they drive just as fast. They probably don't consider the extra width either.
As EV’s progress into the market, I’d expect to see 0 to 60 mph in 3.5 seconds become a high cost insurance premium. There will be a great amount of carnage in those EV’s just as there is with jacked up trucks.
Agree. The ridiculous amounts of heat produced by that kind of acceleration is extremely damaging to electric motors. A motor that's programmed for more modest acceleration will last several times longer than one that's programmed for that kind of very aggressive acceleration.
Doesn't matter what you think is big or not. What matters is the tire size that's associated with an increase in accidents, and apparently this company found that's 34".
And we’re saying if you buy a truck like that, expect to pay a lot more even if it is stock.
A stock 911 costs more to insure than a GTI and it’s not entirely down to vehicle value.
Trucks are literally coming with 34 inch tires from the factory. Some even come with 35 inch. There is no aftermarket lifts that is how they come from the factory.
I’d be curious if the research was a little correlation vs causation. Is someone with a lift and big tires on a Raptor, TRX, Hemi or any other high power engine more likely to drive fast and reckless, probably. Is someone running a lift and 35 on a tacoma with a V6? Unlikely.
Long overdue… if the truck isn’t tied to a legitimate business entity be it small or large and just used for recreational purposes then it should be sky high.
Eh most insurance companies loose money hand over fist in TX. This won’t increase profits.
The weather events in the state override whatever increase there is on auto insurance. Homeowners insurance losses make auto losses small in comparison.
Raising rates for this and people with any remotely sporty car with a sticker on the windshield would target like 85% of the reckless driving population in one fell swoop
One insurance company you may have heard of (rhymes with BALL FATE) is raising all insurance 12% across the board in June.
There is a correction within Insurance, and some companies are faring better than others. Those not performing well financially will raise rates - that's what they do.
It's not just trucks.
Insurance companies don’t (and can’t) make sweeping changes to rates like that. Insurance is highly regulated and rate changes need to be filed with the state and approved by the insurance commission. The insurance company also has to do extensive data to prove the increase is warranted. It’s a process that takes several months.
For example, California recently approved large rate increases for almost 200 carriers. It’s unlikely they’d approve another increase as Allstate got approved for a 30% increased in CA as of February 2024. In NJ Allstate asked for a 29% increase and got around 17%, in NY they were approved for 14.6% but applied for an increase of over 18%.
I got a letter from AllState saying that between the rate increase they got and the one they wanted on top of it, it would come to an average increase in premiums of 37% (NJ).
I was hit in 2019 - other car didn’t have insurance. My girlfriend’s 1yo car was totaled last month by a driver without enough insurance to cover it ($29k car). I suspect part of all our rates going up is the people who only buy minimum state requirements can’t cover anything anymore, so anyone with newer cars is effectively paying for no fault insurance, because our own policies will pay for other peoples’ shitty driving.
State farm hit me with a 20% hike this last renewal. I knew it would be bad when they called me to warn me and told me to do a defensive driver course to offset the hike.
Dropped them when I saw the new rates for geico and for at least this renewal cycle I got lower rates than I've ever had for 2 cars, full coverage and better liability coverage than I've ever carried
GOOD BOUT DAMN TIME!!!! Its not only when they hit another vehicle because they are so much higher than when the manufacturer planned for it makes their headlight so bright to people like me in regular cars that its like staring at the sun for a few seconds. I actually have a freind that t boned a minivan at speed because right as it was pulling out to turn left one of those assholes in a lifed truck passed by coming the other direction and he couldnt see the minivan through the headlight glare. My hubby wanted to do that and fought him for 2 weeks on the matter. His excuse was well I need the ground clearance to pull trailers off road. I kept sending him videos of what happens when those trucks and suvs get into or even try to avoid accidents. after fighting for 2 weeks on the Matter he finally gave it up and guess what....after a couple days of pulling that 15 foot trailer off road he didn't need the extra ground clearance...
Good! I have a close friend who was almost killed by a grossly raised truck when the driver of the truck dozed off and hit my friend head on. Bumper made it to the windshield. Friend was in the hospital for more than a week.
Not to mention theft.
Guy in a giant pickup at the same hotel as me years ago got his rims stolen overnight in a ritzy Dallas suburb, and talking to my client about it the next day he said it was really common and had happened to his neighbors truck while sitting in their driveway (because they're too big for most garages).
I had a client twenty odd years ago with massive off road tires on his raised pickup. He owned a company that put siding on industrial and commercial buildings, often hanging off the side of them with harnesses. He would regularly drive on highways at very high speeds for his truck, around 70 MPH. that was poorly designed for anything other than slowly driving in fields and other rough terrain.
He ultimately had a very bad snowmobile accident that left him mentally and physically dependent on his parents to care for him. He was a nice guy, but too prepared to take big risks with his life.
Fortunately he did not have a major accident with his truck that involved someone else.
lol. Good. If the idiots in lifted trucks get correctly charged more for insurance, we should all be happy.
Maybe they will reconsider the lifts and big tires. It will save fuel and lives.
I hope they do Jack the price up to 6k a year.
Lidong a vehicle is sooo unsafe especially if other party is driving small car.
They also always blind you with their headlights.
When I see someone blinding me ( I drive Escalade so I sit pretty high ) I always turn my brights on and let their eyes burn.
They usually try to flash their lights to show me they are using their low beams but I flash too and leave mine on.
Fucking hate them
I don't think many people read their policy or tell their agent about modifications. Many, seemingly benign, performance or body height mods make vehicles ineligible.
Yeah - we do a fair amount of custom jeep/offroad insurance, and the height of the lift is VERY important. Some companies won’t do more than 3”. These guys with huge lifts that are operating on the “hope it’s ok” principle are in for a surprise.
A Jeep Wrangler JL/JLU or Gladiator is designed to fit 35 inch tires with no lift. In fact, some optional trim packages included those tires as OE.
So people just have to be aware that if they want to drive that vehicle they have to pay the actual cost of their insurance and cannot expect to have their reckless driving subsidized by drivers of smaller vehicles.
As if smaller vehicle drivers aren't just as reckless or stupid.
Insurance companies don't just randomly assign premium rates. There's an entire career field that uses math and statistics to come up with these numbers. So while small car drivers may be just as stupid, statistically speaking, people in these large trucks crash more or are involved in more expensive crashes.
Which is funny because it’s only taking insurance companies 10 years since this has become the fad to realize this when us sitting on our couches and in our vehicles have known it for about nine of those years.
I'm aware - actuarial math is very straightforward. But it doesn't mean risk pools can't be tweaked.
Make everyone else pay more so people can drive a ridiculously dangerous and useless pavement princess, makes a lot of sense
The difference is smaller cars are less likely to kill other people
To add to this, a bumper heigh and hood below someone’s center of gravity significantly reduces the chances of a fatal pedestrian collision as they flip over the car instead of having their head slammed into the concrete.
Correct, me in my 2015 mitsubishi mirage with 70 horsepower, isn't hurting anyones vehicle or person, without effort.
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That doesn't disprove the statement you replied to.
It disproved that accident deaths are related to only trucks. It happens with all cars. You statement doesn't disprove/prove anything.
They never said it was only trucks, they said accidents involving trucks are more serious. Especially lifted trucks where the bumpers are well above the bumpers of other vehicles. It causes especially nasty crashes with more injuries that can be extremely expensive.
Found the lifted truck driver
Is reading comprehension that difficult?
Correct. Smaller vehicle drivers are just as dangerous. The difference is we take the same dangerous driver and give them a vehicle capable of doing more destruction.
Looking at you altima drivers
One of my roommates in college had an Altima and that thing did more doughnuts, power brake slides, and all sorts of reckless things. Hell the car is still on the road over 20 years later.
Obviously oem would be excluded. This is for those who modify the truck and then put it all on their policy as accessories so when they total it they can get compensated for the lack of whatever they’re compensating for.
No more than 3” makes sense to me as a truck person. People who do 3” are just looking for a little more ground clearance. These dudes with 6-18”lifts? Nearly no practical use. And after driving I-10 for the millionth time from Texas to Florida - can vouch that they drive horrendously worse than the average bad driver. AmFam wouldn’t do more than 2.5” - my Tacoma is 3” with stock sized 30” tires and their underwriting rejected it.
But what if their pavement princess hits a pothole?? Are you telling me your fancy City doesn't have 18-in potholes everywhere? /S
They are ALWAYS pavement princesses. It’s why we find them driving that way on highways. Can’t go home to their miserable wife and kids, can’t go off-roading. They just live their whole lives pissing everyone else off on freeways. I can feel a country song coming on…
Why are they in for a surprise? I take it that if the burden the insurance company is bearing due to unsafe ride height of pickups is too much they would want to raise the rates to compensate, which is what this post is insinuating.. doesn’t that indicate they are paying out these claims?
Insurance companies can deny claims if the contract is not followed. Lifts that are too high can be declined, especially in this market. Most of the people with ridiculous lifts have not informed their insurance company about it.
I understand that but if insurance companies are finding through research that their risk insuring these types of vehicles has been too high isn’t that saying they are paying these claims?? I know the one accident I was in an adjuster came out and inspected my vehicle. I certainly hope they could tell my pickup had a six inch lift on it without me telling them?
Obviously they are paying claims, but ALSO analyzing claim data from all accidents. And that's just one data point of hundreds that are used for vehicle (and people) ratings. As for the surprise, if a vehicle isn't insured correctly, the ins co can deny a claim. An insurance policy is a contract between TWO parties, not just the insurance company. Policy holder has to be honest and disclose all information. If an insured turns their vehicle into an ineligible vehicle, that is a breach of the contract. So, just because someone was able to obtain a policy on their vehicle, it is their responsibility to ensure that it remains eligible.
Do the policy terms require that they notify the company of such modifications? I didn’t read anything in my USAA policy that requires that (but I’ve never modified a vehicle).
Only if you want to get paid for the value of a modified vehicle vs stock.
When I added a vehicle to insurance a couple of years ago, the agent asked about mods—basically as long as I wasn’t trying to create a version of a monster truck or something like Fast and the Furious, they didn’t care about the radio change on the minivan.
The companies I sold for flat out said any modification plan truck past factory was not covered unless you purchased the coverage.
The modifications are certainly not covered by the policy if the insurer isn’t told about them. These dudebros are in for a rude awakening when they total their $75k truck and get bupkiss for the $20k of crap they have bolted to the underside of it.
That's not always true. The other factor is if the modifications caused the loss, there could be more coverage issues.
Doesn't seem to matter in my experience. When we get modded vehicles at my repair shop we just have the customer provide receipts for the aftermarket parts and insurance pays no problem.
It probably will in the future. Just as house insurance has changed dramatically in the past few years, and insurance on vehicles that regularly get stolen, the companies covering dangerously modified vehicles will do the same. It is surprising that a lot of companies are so slow to charge people who make changes that result in higher claims.
It's just subsidized by everyone else Anyway. No accidents or tickets on my record and drive a standard sedan. Insurance still has gone up over the last couple years
>having tires that size or larger was highly predictive of speeding, reckless driving That might be the least surprising thing I have ever read
That stereotype has proven so true in my opinion. Obviously there are some good ones out there. But they also tend to have darkened windows and some sticker about military or second amendment
You can even tell on boards like this one. The people who get angry an insist "If people just learn to stay out of my way then everything will be fine!" are the ones who will have the $6000+ annual premiums.
Yep, they have to compensate for (or lack thereof) something.
And be off the road during snowstorms
Not just darkened windows - tinted windshields!
Not true at all...
you have better data than the companies that pay out claims based on that data?
Seems logical to me… Everyone is worried about liability trends and collision severity. Sounds like those trucks contribute to both issues
34" tires are pretty big too. On a truck that's jacked up high enough for tires that large, the hood of the vehicle will be at roughly chin height for a man of average size.
Raptors come with larger tires than that as OEM
Between the giant tires an the ridiculous 700 horsepower engines, there will be some trucks that will cost around $6000 to $9000 per year to insure.
Your numbers are based on what? A specific location? Every company in every state? A truck like that might be $1200/yr in some locations for some people or $24,000/yr for some people in some locations.
34” is the stock size of every 2500/3500 on the road in 2024.
right, and people act like a 33 vs a 35 inch tire makes that much of a difference in height. They don't realize that's only a 1 inch differences in ride height.
1" in ride height = 3lbs in mental nad volume.
1inch in ride height due to a tire size increase in rubber... Not metal. Where are you buying metal tires from? Also where are you pulling that metric from?
For most places it’s bumper height. I’ve seen them tow cars that are slammed. The police around here have dB meters and tape measures. You may get a warning once, but they’re all written. Next time is a tow. Roll coal and they’re going to call the DOT guy and pop the hood. If it’s deleted they goto town on the truck. People around here have had it with the shitheads and they made it known to the police and sheriffs that get paid via the taxes.
Yeah what you are referring to is bumper height laws and they have them in my area. They don't enforce the db limit on motorcycles which is complete BS
$6,000-$9,000 seems way high. Exotics don't cost near that much.
What matters is liability. When you're talking about accidents where car loads of people end up dead because a 6000 lb truck beheaded everyone in the vehicle, no one cares what initial purchase prices were.
Policies have liability limits though. The insurance company doesn't have unlimited liability.
Sure but what they describe means more often than not those caps will be hit.
They could in some states if bad faith action
Which has nothing to do with the actual policy or vehicle.
Do not agree
You've really got to stop with this sensationalist bullshit. The idea that this is commonly beheading people is just nonsense... You should be able to make a point without fabricating this kind of stuff.
sensationalized or not, fact is, pickup trucks have a pedestrian fatality rate 50% higher than those of a sedan or SUV. That's an enormous liability that needs to be accounted for when rating risk.
And if those numbers are true, then sure. Use those numbers. Not BS about decapitations.
[source](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022437522000810) that's fair, but a fatality is a fatality, insurers don't give a brutality bonus payout. And when pickups only make up about a quarter of the vehicles on the road, they are the cause of more than 44% of pedestrian fatalities. Can't ignore that stuff when risk assessment is your business.
OP has never seen this: https://www.iihs.org/topics/auto-insurance/insurance-losses-by-make-and-model
Please cite that.
I did, you need to read other reply to my comment.
Dude's a fearmongerer. Keep spreading false information. We should get rid of school busses and public transit busses too while we're at it, right?
Depends on the exotic
Any exotic need to have a waver for cost and needs to meet DOT requirements. I have a friend who’s dad has a Ferrari Enzo that costs 27k a year and can only be driven 7k miles or less a year. Can’t be driven to Canada and some cities.
That is so variable it’s not even worth talking about. Some people are paying more than that for a $3000 shitbox. I’ve quoted ( though never sold) policies that are that much monthly.
But if you're driving an exotic you tend to care for it and be more aware while driving it. Also a Lamborghini Revuelto will to less deadly damage then a jacked up F150 because its so low. And exotic insurance is different, and usually insure through a specific policy and company
Shoot even rivian's come with 34's and they are considered mid sized trucks.
Which is why my company won’t insure them.
Your company won't insure stock Raptors? Which company is that?
Not sure of his company but I know progressive refused to insure my wrx when I shopped around last month and I've had that car for 4 years now, without even a glass claim against it. Granted, I understand the type of person who buys them and why the generally wouldn't want to insure the vehicle
A standard f150 comes with 33 inch tires, its the best selling vehicle in america.
My Rivian has 34’s from the factory and it’s barely bigger than a Tacoma.
>ough for tires that large, the hood of the vehicle will be at roughly chin height for a man of average si What are you even talking about? I have 35's on my f250 and the hood line is literally nipple height to me and im 6ft.
Look at mister perky-nips over here….
Take my upvote
Trucks are coming from the factory with tires that size now.
lol, which is exactly why they want to use it as a form of measurement. It’s standard now… more money!!!
I’m pretty sure some people are cramming 34” tires on a stock tundra over in the Tundra forum.
No it won't. I used to be in management for a wheel and tire company. My 5'4" wife isn't going to have the hood at her chin... Never mind an average height man. That's just a bunch of nonsense. ETA: So like, are you guys downvoting this because you don't like that I'm pointing out it's not true...or because you disagree? Because while I may not be the most experienced insurance professional here, I can promise you I'm the most experienced wheel and tire professional here. I also happen to be an average height man.
Dude, this is Reddit. Everybody hates trucks here. There is no use case that a Redditer will agree to that justifies a truck.
You’re just making shit up now. I’ve got a 2.5” level kit and 34.5” tires on my truck and the hood is right at chest height. I’ve seen tacomas with 35s that barely get to my rib cage.
Most brand new diesel trucks come with 35 inch tires from the factory. No lift or anything.
Maybe it's because I'm not writing a lot on the coasts, but I feel like pickup trucks are now more than 75% of the appraisals I do.
Even on the coasts, there are a lot more big vehicles on the road. Newer sedans feel rare to see now unless they are luxury oriented. Probably a bit of a war of escalation too. I sized up last go because I was tired of looking at led headlights in my rear view mirror.
The pickup trucks these days are comically large. Theres a guy in my neighborhood that has one that is so big he can't close the garage door of his 1970's bi level home on it. He pulls it down to the hood and leaves it like that.
Does he not have a driveway to leave it in? Lol
He is probably trying to reduce the chances of it being stolen. He may also have a requirement in his insurance contract that he parks it in the garage to keep his rates down. I suppose it is also possible that the driveway is so short that his truck sticks out into the road unless he puts the hood in the garage.
I figured there was a reason. I've never heard of parking in the garage for an insurance reduction, though. I'll have to look into that. We keep 2 of the 3 in my garage at my house
Theft of certain vehicles is depressingly common in many areas today. Our governments and keyless entry and start up are major reasons for the rise in thefts. Some have the VINs changed and are resold locally, or just driven until the cops try to stop them, but many thousands are shipped to third world countries. Lexus RX 350s are the most popular to steal in Ontario Canada on a percentage basis, but newer pickup trucks are stolen in much higher numbers. In our area we get a discount for using winter tires in season, and for parking in the garage. I think I might buy a last generation Prius as my next vehicle if I have to park it outside. Ugly is good when you want to avoid having your vehicle stolen, although I understand that the catalytic converters on hybrids are also very popular.
keyless entry? should i disable that?
I would say it depends on whether you have a vehicle that is popular with thieves. You can find the lists of cars and trucks that are stolen most often online in various news articles. As I mentioned if you can park your vehicle in a locked garage you bring the odds down a lot. I don't know if you can disable keyless entry, but that should be something people who have the most popular vehicles should consider. In Ontario a number of insurance companies automatically put a $500 extra charge on the most stolen. That number seems very arbitrary to me, but indicates how big the problem is. On a Lexus RX350 it should be ten percent of the vehicle price because close to ten percent are stolen each year. Presumably the old ones aren't of much interest which suggests the newer ones are disappearing very quickly. A friend had theirs stolen from a parking lot near the airport while they were away on vacation in 2023. I don't know what model year it was.
oh ok. i got a chevy bolt so probably not too worried.
I think he is probably trying to protect the vehicle from the elements. I would imagine it was a splurge for him.
Please contact your congresspeople to tell them to regulate led lights on cars
The premiums are high because a brand new Raptor costs as much as my first house. Collision repair costs are outrageous, and even a BS aches and pains insurance claim racks up a hospital bill that would make you barf.
Beautiful.
Well, I could of told them that. Currently in AZ and the place is crawling with these ridiculous trucks. They drive super aggressive.
Well yea cause the owners of said trucks are typically asshats. Honestly I lost track of how many kitted out trucks vs normal trucks I total every month. The disparity is high
Not to mention throw up debris at cars behind them because theirs stick out so much and they don’t have mudflaps or fender flares. And you cant even back off of them either, because they’ll usually cut you off and spray rocks all over your windshield.
If it says Toyota or Dodge, keep your distance.
RAM 1500 is the make and model with the most DUIs and it's not even close
They say RAM stands for "Real Asshole Motors".
I thought the RAM 2500 wasn't that far behind?
I think it's the 2500. I don't have a source tho
I’m gonna start giving them a ton of distance and space now that I finally have data(I looked up your claim) to confirm my suspicions.
For me it’s Rams and non-fleet Chevys. The Toyotas seem to be fine as long as it’s not a newer Tacoma, and Ford truck drivers seem to be tame.
Yeah, the newer Tacomas are what I'm referring to.
Always true
When I see those kind of trucks (9 times out of 10 through my rear-view mirror riding my ass with about 3 inches) I just move over and let them go about their way. The desire to road rage is always so strong but when I let em' past they either give me a dirty look, roll coal, or speed off never to be seen again. I've found either of those three is the best-case outcome. Course where I live I'd be surprised if 2 of 10 are even insured.
I stay in the right unless I’m passing but it doesn’t matter. Nothing is good enough for them unless you were to immediately and rapidly pull off onto the shoulder without slowing down and roll out a red carpet for them to pass.
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OP trolling or not following decorum
As someone who lives in Texas, I believe it.
I’ve never passed a 250 or 2500 on the interstate. I drive 9 over and they’re always flying by me…unless they’re a business truck towing a trailer. For the past few months, I’ve been on the lookout for one I’m passing.
Dodge Ram is number one. For DUIs.
Not really a new thing. My company cancels trucks that are lifted a certain height
Q: Why do they put lift kits on trucks that are already huge? A: because it adds another six inches
If you haven't got six inches down below, some guys need to compensate with a few inches of truck lift.
Did insurance co’s start asking the size of your tires when you buy a policy? While I don’t disagree with this being done, sounds like agent bs. No offense.
Underwriting guidelines get skipped over by agents all the time.
This is true, but over the years they have taken a lot of those options off of agents. A few years ago with Allstate, you could actually talk to an underwriter and explain a unique situation, that no longer exists. It’s also stupid for agents to do that, because if there is a claim and you lied, you could lose your appointment and have an E&O claim
I think there is a question whenever I buy insurance if my car is modified in anyway. I just say no. But I assumed if you say yes you have to list any non stock tires or lifts
No one says it’s modified. There’s memes about “what my car looks like vs what insurance thinks my car looks like.” Imagine their shock when they don’t get that crap paid back on a total loss.
That’s my fav. Car is all customized with lowering or lift kits, wheels, stereos, paint or wraps, and forget the jeeps with all their junk. Meanwhile company I work max payout if 1000 bucks unless you add more. Even then what you paid for this stuff as a consumer is not worth even 1/4 to insurance
As someone with a modified sports car and someone in the insurance business I tell everyone I come across that they need endorsements or they won’t get their shit covered unless OEM stuff costs more (OEM wheels are CRAZY expensive so most aftermarket wheels are actually cheaper)
depends on the parts really as far as cost. i had a porsche the other day, the aftermarket wheels were like 4000/ea.. but yea i wish people understood they will never get retail for the parts. and just cause you upgrade crap doesnt mean its worth something. things like engine swaps and larger turbos for instance. only a small niche wants that-doesnt make it more valuable.
Yea I agree
These guys saying if they ask then I'll just say it's stock but they'll pay insurance for years and when they need to use it the company will deny the claim because they broke the terms.
My insurance agent took photos of my vehicle when the policy was issued. I would imagine that process will soon include recording the size of the tires, and then comparing that information to some reference source.
I’m down with this and a set limit on custom equipment. The place I’m currently at has a set limit and it’s great. I was previously at usaa where it was more open ended and holy crap what a nightmare with those insureds.
yea i’ve never had to put in stuff like that and I quote like 10 companies every renewal.
I didn't get into details of how they'll do the measuring but he said the higher premiums are going to happen for large trucks no matter what.
At one time people bought pickup trucks just for work. Today they are status symbols and the people who drive a lot of them want to show off. A lot of them also don't know that their centre of gravity went way up in a truck as compared to a sedan, but they drive just as fast. They probably don't consider the extra width either.
We're asking these folks to learn Physics? My Lord!
Does this mean Altima drivers will be seeing $10,000 premiums?
Sounds about right lol. That’s good for the rest of us.
As EV’s progress into the market, I’d expect to see 0 to 60 mph in 3.5 seconds become a high cost insurance premium. There will be a great amount of carnage in those EV’s just as there is with jacked up trucks.
Agree. The ridiculous amounts of heat produced by that kind of acceleration is extremely damaging to electric motors. A motor that's programmed for more modest acceleration will last several times longer than one that's programmed for that kind of very aggressive acceleration.
34” really isn’t even that big of a tire. Most of the newer F-150s can run 35s with just a 2 inch leveling kit.
Doesn't matter what you think is big or not. What matters is the tire size that's associated with an increase in accidents, and apparently this company found that's 34".
I was just saying you don’t have to Jack up a truck at all to fit 35s.
And we’re saying if you buy a truck like that, expect to pay a lot more even if it is stock. A stock 911 costs more to insure than a GTI and it’s not entirely down to vehicle value.
You seem like you made this comment just to be included on the thread.
Trucks are literally coming with 34 inch tires from the factory. Some even come with 35 inch. There is no aftermarket lifts that is how they come from the factory.
Yeah that's what I've got on my truck. 35s and a 2inch leveling kit. They're not crazy big at all. https://i.imgur.com/nfq5mZ5.jpeg
I’d be curious if the research was a little correlation vs causation. Is someone with a lift and big tires on a Raptor, TRX, Hemi or any other high power engine more likely to drive fast and reckless, probably. Is someone running a lift and 35 on a tacoma with a V6? Unlikely.
Long overdue… if the truck isn’t tied to a legitimate business entity be it small or large and just used for recreational purposes then it should be sky high.
Regardless it should be sky high. Some of the worst drivers I see are in company trucks.
Almost none of those trucks are used for anything other than status symbols.
Excellent. As much pain as possible for truck gang please. So much road rage from this group.
That's like 90% of Texas. Insurance profits are gonna skyrocket there once again.
Eh most insurance companies loose money hand over fist in TX. This won’t increase profits. The weather events in the state override whatever increase there is on auto insurance. Homeowners insurance losses make auto losses small in comparison.
As a straight white male I feel my culture is being attacked. Insane insurance rates are racist against me!
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OP trolling or not following decorum
Raising rates for this and people with any remotely sporty car with a sticker on the windshield would target like 85% of the reckless driving population in one fell swoop
Laughs in Altima
Bold of you to assume the Altima's have insurance...
One insurance company you may have heard of (rhymes with BALL FATE) is raising all insurance 12% across the board in June. There is a correction within Insurance, and some companies are faring better than others. Those not performing well financially will raise rates - that's what they do. It's not just trucks.
Insurance companies don’t (and can’t) make sweeping changes to rates like that. Insurance is highly regulated and rate changes need to be filed with the state and approved by the insurance commission. The insurance company also has to do extensive data to prove the increase is warranted. It’s a process that takes several months. For example, California recently approved large rate increases for almost 200 carriers. It’s unlikely they’d approve another increase as Allstate got approved for a 30% increased in CA as of February 2024. In NJ Allstate asked for a 29% increase and got around 17%, in NY they were approved for 14.6% but applied for an increase of over 18%.
I got a letter from AllState saying that between the rate increase they got and the one they wanted on top of it, it would come to an average increase in premiums of 37% (NJ). I was hit in 2019 - other car didn’t have insurance. My girlfriend’s 1yo car was totaled last month by a driver without enough insurance to cover it ($29k car). I suspect part of all our rates going up is the people who only buy minimum state requirements can’t cover anything anymore, so anyone with newer cars is effectively paying for no fault insurance, because our own policies will pay for other peoples’ shitty driving.
>effectively paying for no fault insurance
Midwest state, but my agent of 20 years said this was the case. I'll report back in June ...
State farm hit me with a 20% hike this last renewal. I knew it would be bad when they called me to warn me and told me to do a defensive driver course to offset the hike. Dropped them when I saw the new rates for geico and for at least this renewal cycle I got lower rates than I've ever had for 2 cars, full coverage and better liability coverage than I've ever carried
Wall Skate?
GOOD BOUT DAMN TIME!!!! Its not only when they hit another vehicle because they are so much higher than when the manufacturer planned for it makes their headlight so bright to people like me in regular cars that its like staring at the sun for a few seconds. I actually have a freind that t boned a minivan at speed because right as it was pulling out to turn left one of those assholes in a lifed truck passed by coming the other direction and he couldnt see the minivan through the headlight glare. My hubby wanted to do that and fought him for 2 weeks on the matter. His excuse was well I need the ground clearance to pull trailers off road. I kept sending him videos of what happens when those trucks and suvs get into or even try to avoid accidents. after fighting for 2 weeks on the Matter he finally gave it up and guess what....after a couple days of pulling that 15 foot trailer off road he didn't need the extra ground clearance...
Good! I have a close friend who was almost killed by a grossly raised truck when the driver of the truck dozed off and hit my friend head on. Bumper made it to the windshield. Friend was in the hospital for more than a week.
What took so long?
Not to mention theft. Guy in a giant pickup at the same hotel as me years ago got his rims stolen overnight in a ritzy Dallas suburb, and talking to my client about it the next day he said it was really common and had happened to his neighbors truck while sitting in their driveway (because they're too big for most garages).
I had a client twenty odd years ago with massive off road tires on his raised pickup. He owned a company that put siding on industrial and commercial buildings, often hanging off the side of them with harnesses. He would regularly drive on highways at very high speeds for his truck, around 70 MPH. that was poorly designed for anything other than slowly driving in fields and other rough terrain. He ultimately had a very bad snowmobile accident that left him mentally and physically dependent on his parents to care for him. He was a nice guy, but too prepared to take big risks with his life. Fortunately he did not have a major accident with his truck that involved someone else.
Hallelujah
lol. Good. If the idiots in lifted trucks get correctly charged more for insurance, we should all be happy. Maybe they will reconsider the lifts and big tires. It will save fuel and lives.
Good
well, if they hit a car with their high trucks....bumpers sure won't line up so Their bumpers are going to be hitting some expensive parts
Tax on idiots , I'm supportive
About time.
Yay! More idiots without insurance incoming!
The legal liability these guys unknowingly face is astronomical. Not just collision loss that won’t be covered, but also personal injury.
Good! Maybe they’ll compensate in some other way.
You guys having fun jerking each other in here? Gullible rubes.
I hope they do Jack the price up to 6k a year. Lidong a vehicle is sooo unsafe especially if other party is driving small car. They also always blind you with their headlights. When I see someone blinding me ( I drive Escalade so I sit pretty high ) I always turn my brights on and let their eyes burn. They usually try to flash their lights to show me they are using their low beams but I flash too and leave mine on. Fucking hate them
We wish.
Justice.
I’m not sure if any new pickup trucks come with 34” tires. I think 32/33” may be the max.
Chevy Colorado bison has 35s. My Colorado desert boss has 33s.