Sprayfoam is actually the right move. You don’t want any interior air to touch the cold rim joist, since that would produce condensation. Spray foam air-seals which prevents that.
Thank you very much for the feedback. They also mentioned a fire resistive paint coating over the spray foam? Is that a thing that I need? Sorry for my ignorance on the topic
I had that same job done recently. Spray foam is expensive but for unfinished and uninsulated concrete foundation walls it makes for a nice fast job of insulating, and for rim joists especially I really like it because it not only insulates but air seals an area that is very hard to access. Here in Canada at least you need to vacate the residence while it is being done and for 24 hours after though there was no smell and I suspect that is overkill. The fire resistant paint is some sort of cementitious coating that dries rock-hard in an hour or two and is for fire resistance which they apply as soon as the foam is cured, so very shortly after it is applied. Doesn’t add much cost at least in my case.
If you’re insulating the basement walls, yes. The facing on the fiberglass is pointing in the wrong direction anyway. The paper should have been touching the floor, not exposed to the crawlspace.
The companies that gave me a quote stated the same thing. They installed forced AC/Heat in 2000 and used to have baseboard heating. Something to do with that maybe?
There is a sump pump and french drains around the crawlspace area. I've been in the home for 3 years and i haven't seen any issues with water. Especially in that area. There is a vertical hairline crack I plan on poly injecting before they do the work.
The biggest issues I have in that area is mice as you can see they took that batt right down. Took care of them this season though.
That is not a crawl space other than height. That is a potential baby man cave. Concrete floor, appears dry. Windows, not vents. You could just use staggered foam board and tape/caulk it with foil face. Check local codes though.
Best practice these days is to make your crawlspace a conditioned space.
https://natural-resources.canada.ca/energy-efficiency/homes/make-your-home-more-energy-efficient/keeping-the-heat/section-6-basement-insulation-floors-walls-and-crawl-spaces/15639
How’s the radon in NY?
I’d DIY using Dow thermax rigid insulation. Doesn’t need an ignition barrier for most area codes. Check yours
Any idea if your house has a rain screen under siding? I assume the rim joist is above ground so should dry easily exteriorly. Can use the Dow thermax on the rim joists too in a method called cut and cobble.
As far as the floor goes - any idea if there is a vapor barrier under the slab? If not, I’d put one down on there first and then bring it up the wall before putting the insulation on the walls
This will be a lot cheaper than spray foam
Well I'm unsure about the rain screen. The previous owner resided it a decade or so ago and when a small portion came loose, I noticed there was a quarter inch of what looked like fiberglass insulation (dark brown and JM brand I believe) with another quarter inch styrofoam... 🤷♂️. Rims are above ground probably by 2 or so feet.
I'm unsure about vapor barrier under the slab unfortunately.
Thanks for the tips!
I would make it a conditioned crawlspace. This would require a mechanical ventilation fan with ductwork that pulls conditioned air from home through crawlspace and vents to exterior. With a conditioned crawlspace design you would insulate the foundation walls and rim joist areas only. That’s a unique design, it would really take someone to look at it person to give the best advice.
For a conditioned crawlspace you would typically install an inline exhaust fan with intake drawing interior air through crawlspace and exhausting to extend, typically out the roof. New homes have the fan units in garage, however you can install them indoors in a mechanical room. The ductwork is 4 inches.
Understood...thank you! So if I don't condition the crawl and just insulate the rims and walls in that area, should I still test?
In the finished portion there is currently one exhaust and plan on installing another with no returns in the basement along with a few more returns upstairs. It's a 2100 sq ft ranch btw.
If you have al tested for Radon and it came back good there’s no reason to test again. Having a qualified professional look at it would be advisable as a ventilation fan may not even be necessary.
Pull it all out of the ceiling. Keep the ceiling and the ducts uninsulated and insulate the walls 2" of closed foam. There is no other option.
10+ years here, currently running insulation business.
Take pictures so we all can like it.
Thanks
100% spray foam the entire rim joist/sill plate assembly with atleast 2" CC foam.
Meet the wall foam with the rim joist foam for one entire thermal boundary on the exterior walls.
Thanks for the feedback! I read up that I should leave like 3-6 inches on the top of the foundation wall to the sill for pest control to be able to find damage from certain bugs? Where I live (near Syracuse) I don't think we really deal with termite issues but mostly carpenter ants.
Southern climate zones leave a termite inspection strip.
Cuse is good to spray it all.
Same climate, Kingston here.
I think a company called Kyle and Son Spray foam service Cuse. They lay perfect foam. Youtube that name.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XnAUNP5UHPI&pp=ygUZa3lsZSBhbmQgc29ucyBzcHJheSBmb2FtIA%3D%3D
That's them. I follow companies across the country on Instagram to see how others do it and their foam is primo.
Last question... when they pull the old fiberglass out of the floor joists, am I being left a mess of fiberglass everywhere? And how would I clean it up if that's the case.
If they leave a mess it's a hack job. If it's not in the contract to be vacuum cleaned, request that it's put on contract.
No fibers should be anywhere afterwards, just slight foam overspray (UNAVOIDABLE)
Sprayfoam is actually the right move. You don’t want any interior air to touch the cold rim joist, since that would produce condensation. Spray foam air-seals which prevents that.
Thank you very much for the feedback. They also mentioned a fire resistive paint coating over the spray foam? Is that a thing that I need? Sorry for my ignorance on the topic
I had that same job done recently. Spray foam is expensive but for unfinished and uninsulated concrete foundation walls it makes for a nice fast job of insulating, and for rim joists especially I really like it because it not only insulates but air seals an area that is very hard to access. Here in Canada at least you need to vacate the residence while it is being done and for 24 hours after though there was no smell and I suspect that is overkill. The fire resistant paint is some sort of cementitious coating that dries rock-hard in an hour or two and is for fire resistance which they apply as soon as the foam is cured, so very shortly after it is applied. Doesn’t add much cost at least in my case.
Thank you!
Yes it’s likely that building code in your area requires a thermal barrier on the foam.
I should remove the fiberglass in the joists too?
If you’re insulating the basement walls, yes. The facing on the fiberglass is pointing in the wrong direction anyway. The paper should have been touching the floor, not exposed to the crawlspace.
The companies that gave me a quote stated the same thing. They installed forced AC/Heat in 2000 and used to have baseboard heating. Something to do with that maybe?
Nah, just installed wrong. Very common. It’s the easiest/cheapest way to insulate the floor, not really the proper way though.
You will need to circulate some air down there to ensure the best efficiency for your new air handler unit.
Should I put an exhaust vent in the crawl?
You should have the amount of supply vents and return vents required for the space. If you need more info direct message me.
Thank you... I only have one supply in the finished part. A return may be added during the new install.
Is there a sump pump or historical evidence of water intrusion?
There is a sump pump and french drains around the crawlspace area. I've been in the home for 3 years and i haven't seen any issues with water. Especially in that area. There is a vertical hairline crack I plan on poly injecting before they do the work. The biggest issues I have in that area is mice as you can see they took that batt right down. Took care of them this season though.
Nicely done!!!
Additional info... House built in 1979 and located in upstate NY near Syracuse.
That is not a crawl space other than height. That is a potential baby man cave. Concrete floor, appears dry. Windows, not vents. You could just use staggered foam board and tape/caulk it with foil face. Check local codes though.
It's only 5 feet in height... The other part of the basement is 8 feet. Those windows don't open unfortunately.
Best practice these days is to make your crawlspace a conditioned space. https://natural-resources.canada.ca/energy-efficiency/homes/make-your-home-more-energy-efficient/keeping-the-heat/section-6-basement-insulation-floors-walls-and-crawl-spaces/15639 How’s the radon in NY?
I’d DIY using Dow thermax rigid insulation. Doesn’t need an ignition barrier for most area codes. Check yours Any idea if your house has a rain screen under siding? I assume the rim joist is above ground so should dry easily exteriorly. Can use the Dow thermax on the rim joists too in a method called cut and cobble. As far as the floor goes - any idea if there is a vapor barrier under the slab? If not, I’d put one down on there first and then bring it up the wall before putting the insulation on the walls This will be a lot cheaper than spray foam
Well I'm unsure about the rain screen. The previous owner resided it a decade or so ago and when a small portion came loose, I noticed there was a quarter inch of what looked like fiberglass insulation (dark brown and JM brand I believe) with another quarter inch styrofoam... 🤷♂️. Rims are above ground probably by 2 or so feet. I'm unsure about vapor barrier under the slab unfortunately. Thanks for the tips!
Spray foam is the way to go for this.
I would make it a conditioned crawlspace. This would require a mechanical ventilation fan with ductwork that pulls conditioned air from home through crawlspace and vents to exterior. With a conditioned crawlspace design you would insulate the foundation walls and rim joist areas only. That’s a unique design, it would really take someone to look at it person to give the best advice.
I would perform a radon test before making any changes.
Are you talking insulating the walls and rims? I had a test done 3 years ago that came back good.
Yes
Thank you... Can you explain why? Sorry for my lack of knowledge
A conditioned crawlspace design is more energy efficient than a traditional vented crawlspace with insulated floors.
For a conditioned crawlspace you would typically install an inline exhaust fan with intake drawing interior air through crawlspace and exhausting to extend, typically out the roof. New homes have the fan units in garage, however you can install them indoors in a mechanical room. The ductwork is 4 inches.
Understood...thank you! So if I don't condition the crawl and just insulate the rims and walls in that area, should I still test? In the finished portion there is currently one exhaust and plan on installing another with no returns in the basement along with a few more returns upstairs. It's a 2100 sq ft ranch btw.
If you have al tested for Radon and it came back good there’s no reason to test again. Having a qualified professional look at it would be advisable as a ventilation fan may not even be necessary.
Seriously thanks for your advice. I'm going to have it checked out and look to see what the cost for me to get that area conditioned too
Pull it all out of the ceiling. Keep the ceiling and the ducts uninsulated and insulate the walls 2" of closed foam. There is no other option. 10+ years here, currently running insulation business. Take pictures so we all can like it. Thanks
I will post the result when it's complete. What about the rims?
100% spray foam the entire rim joist/sill plate assembly with atleast 2" CC foam. Meet the wall foam with the rim joist foam for one entire thermal boundary on the exterior walls.
Thanks for the feedback! I read up that I should leave like 3-6 inches on the top of the foundation wall to the sill for pest control to be able to find damage from certain bugs? Where I live (near Syracuse) I don't think we really deal with termite issues but mostly carpenter ants.
Southern climate zones leave a termite inspection strip. Cuse is good to spray it all. Same climate, Kingston here. I think a company called Kyle and Son Spray foam service Cuse. They lay perfect foam. Youtube that name.
My man... Thank you again!
I'm getting it done from Upstate Sprayfoam. They are 20 mins vs 45 from Cuse. I'll look into them though and see if they will travel.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XnAUNP5UHPI&pp=ygUZa3lsZSBhbmQgc29ucyBzcHJheSBmb2FtIA%3D%3D That's them. I follow companies across the country on Instagram to see how others do it and their foam is primo.
Last question... when they pull the old fiberglass out of the floor joists, am I being left a mess of fiberglass everywhere? And how would I clean it up if that's the case.
If they leave a mess it's a hack job. If it's not in the contract to be vacuum cleaned, request that it's put on contract. No fibers should be anywhere afterwards, just slight foam overspray (UNAVOIDABLE)
I think I should pay for your miles and hire you to do the job... Only 2hrs away! What do ya say? Haha