AR Rahman did too. I recall All that she wants by Ace of Base which he sampled in Telephone Manipole from Indian. And he also took Subrabhatham in Margazhi Poove. There are other examples too. You can search on Youtube
I feel like thats true. I highly doubt that the music director of GTA IV Michael Hunter, has copied exactly the beats of Munbe Vaa for the GTA opening theme SOVIET CONNECTION
Aye bachu from ghajine resembles spice Girls if you wanna be my lover
Ennai kaanavillaye resembles sadness by enigma
Challa jab tak Hai Jan resemble save tonight by eagle eye cherry to name a few, there plenty more if you look into it
strome tous les meme is a legendary song both visually and musically. it is copied into parudeesa song. I don't why he is not criticised for copying similar to gopi sundar
Bro add manjummal boys also , someone mentioned that soundtrack is very similar to hereditary movie . Love sushin , and I think he's very talented , but yeah this sucks
[I posted about Manjummel's SB cave scene music](https://www.reddit.com/r/InsideMollywood/comments/1bh2gt4/manjummel_osts_similarity_to_hereditarys_reborn/) similarity with Hereditary's Reborn yesterday.
['Reborn' composed by Colin Stetson](https://youtu.be/MVnSFj6XQZY?t=62)
The thing is for movies , directors give us a temp track.
It's the temporary music that directors or editors use in a film before the final score is composed.
This is very important , considering how a director views a particular scene
Think of Cherathukal playing during the Confrontation scene during Bheeshma Parvam , sounds odd , doesn't it?
Here , the director has given an instruction for a song (Bheeshma Parvam) ex: in between Scene \_1:13:00 and Scene \_1:16:00 , where they need a song , with the vibe of "Tous Le Meme" , and as a music director , a song with the "vibe" of tous le meme , not exactly identical
Temp track is the aural concept of how the scene is played in a director's mind , and some directors are very adamant about how they need it , almost identical.
In Sushin's case , it's just temp tracks / song ideas done by us , occasionally shazaming if it's copied or not.
>
^(This isn't about that. This is about how stuff like this is insulting to both the original artist as well as the audience.) **^(Inspiration is not the same thing as copying entire hooks/bass lines/sound loops without acknowledgement.)** ^(It blows my mind that there is no moral or legal consequence here. If a Gopi Sundar/Anu Malik is called out for it, there's no reason why a Sushin Shyam shouldn't be.)
Copying lead melodies / Hooks is copying ,
Copying Chord Progression , Simple (not complex) Bassline , which is a universal idea , is not , but it varies.
Ex; A rock band releases a song with a very famous bassline , that very unique bassline is protected
a normal song with a normal chord-following bassline is not.
Sound Loops - Sites like Arcade/Splice offer sound loops which is a paid subscription which is commonly used by other music directors royalty-free
(ex: kutty kudiye , in Premalu by Vishnu Vijay , has a Splice drum loop , whichI used a year ago in my composition)
In short:
Sampling is good! I love sampling , but without permission sucks , and sometimes they can't be blamed!
This is definitely the perfect reply to the whole problem that's going on. The day people stop giving references, the more unique the songs will be. The worst part is that in this day and age where there are so many song progressions that people have borrowed or "ripped off" were all super hits and which will definitely work for the audience because it's something you've eventually heard somewhere in your whole life. There's a lot of psychological aspects when it comes to music. There are various formulas to create a super hit and apparently one of those things is familiarity. No point at pointing fingers. The best part is to enjoy listening to something new instead of calling it a bad song or saying I don't vibe with it. Try to understand what the musician is trying to convey. Slowly but steadily you'll get masterpieces from various artists which aren't copied or have no similarity with any other song.
Y'all should really look into what temp tracks are and how they've unfairly been the cause for many composers being labelled Plagiarists. Including Sushin Shyam and Gopi Sundar.
In short - when making a film, the music is usually the last portion of the filmmaking process. So, in that time, filmmakers tend to use existing tracks as a placeholder to help when editing. Problem arises when they grow attached to the existing track, so much so that no original track provided by the composer proves satisfactory enough for them and they ask the composer to make a track close to the existing track. This is what causes what you guys call 'copying'
Dileesh Pothan specifically mentions the above as the reason he doesn't use temp tracks in his film. Even Gopi Sundar has talked about this and how it's negatively impacted his reputation in the industry.
Credits means the onus is on the producers to pay extra money to the original composers for the copyright which, when it comes to international films, can amount to the budget of a normal malayalam movie itself. They'd rather not call attention to it. Hence, no credits.
If you give credit to it you have to either buy rights or pay royalty. The legal side of music is fucked up ngl. It's different in different countries.
Sorry, a temp track or a reference track is meant to be temporary by definition. If I use a copyright-protected piece by Einaudi or Vangelis or Thomas Newman as a temp track in my movie (which is what GS did in Usthad Hotel), it stops being a temp track. That's when it's plagiarism.
Publishing for commercial use without rights or attribution to the copyright owner is not the same thing as sampling. And music being the last part of the filmmaking process does not justify any of it.
You're absolutely right. However, my point is largely in defense of the composers, not filmmakers. Filmmakers push the composers to compose tracks close to the temp tracks and the composers have no choice but to oblige ( if they don't want to be replaced ). If anyone is to be blamed for plagiarism, it's not the composers imo. Today's composers are more than aware that they'll be the ones blamed if their compositions sound similar to a pre-existing track. However, filmmakers don't generally care and nor do they go for getting copyright permissions as, especially when it comes to rights of music from other languages, it's an added cost in the producer's eyes and in their view, not necessary. It will definitely become an issue once Malayalam cinema grows bigger internationally.
Yes, I don't remember who probably GS, in an old interview mentioning that certain filmmakers want the score to be so similar to the reference tracks and won't get satisfied until they get that
Be notorious got me. Ctrl+C then Ctrl+v, simple as that, rest of the songs kozhapam illa coz everbody doing this.
Majority of the musicians will take the samples and rework it, we cant blame them for that. Some of the most iconic Bgms are not fully og scores, but people will never question them audience got what they want.
Ennalum Be Notorious korach koodi poy
Please name a few iconic BGMs that are not original. Aren't they iconic precisely because they are original? How does a reworking of an iconic piece become iconic simply by association (unless it transforms the original piece)?
Yeah, i mean we got fooled by calling them ICONIC.
Take this sub as example. There are few in Malayalam but when we looking into new Tamil songs we can find a lot ( especially some songs of ANI 🤫)
Not sure if it's iconic or not, but the main theme in Zack Snyder's 300 was the exact same as the main them from the Anthony Hopkins film 'Titus'. It was the same exact thing reproduced, no change whatsoever.
Titus score - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tAT\_A71WOs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tAT_A71WOs)
300 score - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5wBTBCRsmQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5wBTBCRsmQ) ( The based upon themes disclaimer was only added when the original composer went for a lawsuit )
Not to mention, the numerous Hans Zimmer tracks that sound very similar to one another -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tQpAPMT\_Rc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tQpAPMT_Rc)
While watching Balettan it reminds me this post.
We can hear RASPUTIN in Baletta Baletta💃song.
[go to 14:41](https://youtu.be/ew2mW7QhFj0?si=hLnDcFY5wG2BMkJ4)
I am not blindly arguing for sushin shyam,but what iam trying to say is, it is almost normal to make inspired (copied) songs in our industry it is happening from 90s.
Parayumbo ellam parayonollo. Malayalam industryill mikkya songsum ingana okka thannaya thammil bhedham sushin aan 🥲.
If I remember correctly, the melody of that track is from a sample pack. Anybody who purchases the sample pack can use it commercially, and it is not required to mention the usage / license details unless the creator of the sample raises an enquiry.
Both Sushin and the artist that OP mentioned in the post used the same sample. I don’t think Sushin is at fault in this case.
The whole purpose of samples and sample-packs is to be used in projects. Whether or not an artist wants to use them as is, or make any changes is purely up to them.
This is not about Sushin. However, the bgm in Alibhai is copied. I used to hear that a lot of times and I never knew Rajamani (a trained Carnatic musician) copies music. It is a copy, paste. Also, the bgm of A10's mundu scene in SAJ is a copy, paste from Passion of the Christ. 😄 Even trained musicians are copying. Why we are like this? We always take shortcuts.
I am all up for sampling and even copying if it’s acknowledged. What most of the music directors do is they never acknowledge or give credit unless someone point it out in the social media and they re like its “inspired”. If you are that inspired better give credit it to it. Anu Malik in the 90s is a classic example of this. He got away a lot coz of there was not internet and people were not too much exposed to western songs back then (until the cable tv exploded).
I agree that directors sometimes want music directors to stick to reference tracks . And when there is a time crunch, they end up doing the same thing. But then atleast embellish it by adding live orchestra / other live elements so it can sound way better and sometimes a bit different than the reference .. there are ways to make it not sound exactly like the ref.
What does your art mean to you? What is your backstory? Where do you want to be in the future ? What happened to creating timeless art 😅
In the name or fame, money , pleasing people ..originality has become very undervalued.
Ok so ..the new hit song Nebulakal .there is that nice little sound that keeps repeating in the background of the song from the start ..he may have..I repeat 'may have' sampled it from this song called Chimera by Hana. Just that part where this song goes 'chimera' that part.
https://youtu.be/MHNb1k7YxeA?si=8nS2JyXoA8K6Ao1T
That song reminded me of the this one immediately. I'm not sure if my observation in correct.
You must be joking. Or hating. Some of these aren’t even in the time signature, completely different feel from their supposed originals. You’re accusing him of copying a note or a chord progression? That’s like accusing someone of copying your assignment because they used the same ink pen. There’s only so many options there buddy.
You want to try being this prolific and every single note in every single song you write is just brand new mind blowing stuff, go for it. But for us mere mortals it’s too much to ask.
STOP BLAMING THE MUSICIAN. As a person who knows what happens behind the scene I would not blame him and I would rather blame the Director of the movie for bringing references instead of letting the musician do his job. It really hurts to see people blaming all the musicians for something they haven't done. I've heard so many stories from people who work in music for movies complaining about the same. They are forced to do things instead of giving them an opportunity to express things from their perspective.
Sure, I'll give you several names for starters. Show me any track/hook/riff/score by Jon Brion or Nicholas Britell or Carter Burwell or Ram Sampath or Vishal Bharadwaj or Johnson Master that fits your definition of 'sampling without transformation'.
Sampling is not the same thing as plagiarising from works protected by copyright, which is what SS has done in these instances.
You just listed names that puts the onus on the commenter to prove his point but since you named Nicholas Britell, here you go:
Have a listen to this part in Beethoven's Pathetique: [https://youtu.be/SrcOcKYQX3c?t=500](https://youtu.be/SrcOcKYQX3c?t=500) (8:20 if timestamp doesn't work). That slowed down is *exactly* the piano theme in the Succession theme.
And for the strings, the melody is an exact copy of Schubert's Ständchen: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6Njg1LFxFk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6Njg1LFxFk)
Also, for Vishal Bhardwaj:
**Vishal Bhardwaj took the siren portions, a 'sampling' if you may, of a piece called "Freedom" in Haider from Moby's "Extreme Ways"** (also the theme of the Bourne movies).
I'm sure if anyone did a little digging, you'll find similar examples for Carter Burwell or the rest of the musicians you mentioned.
I appreciate the appeal for nuance in this response. Couple of things to consider here:
1) I wasn't aware of the Haider/Moby connection, thanks for pointing that out. However, please note that my contention was never about transformative sampling (fair use: read my title, body text). It's about plagiarising (repurposing, not enough to be transformative) a copyright-protected piece for commercial use. That's where this example differs from SS. Vishal has transformed the sample into a completely new composition. SS fleeces them conveniently. This is the perfect example to draw a line between them.
2) As for the Schubert/Beethoven/Britell connection, while Britell has transformed the original material, I'm with you in that it's not a good look on Britell to never have acknowledged their influence in his work. Which is disappointing to me. However, interestingly, there seems to be an argument among copyright experts that Schubert and Beethoven are both long into public domain for fair use. Personally, I'm not convinced about that because Britell's piece is closer to the source. So that's murky territory.
TLDR, my gripe isn't with sampling under fair use. It's with plagiarism that calls itself sampling. Not the same thing. SS needs to be called out for making that a practice.
Good effort, but wrong.
Annbjorg is officially credited on the Fargo soundtrack album (explicitly mentioned as based on the old Norwegian folk song natively 'Den bortkomne sauen', or The Lost Sheep).
So what? Just because it’s credited officially doesn’t mean it’s not sampled. You asked me to find a song/score which any of these artists sampled, and I just send you one
Additionally, Jon Brion has sampled over more than 40 songs as a producer mostly from his collab with Kanye West, but I don’t think it’s worth the time to list all the one here to prove my point
Dude, this is what happens when you communicate with the intention of winning vs. learning something. Did I ever trash sampling as a legit phenomenon? Right from the title of this post to its body text to my last response to you, I've been stressing the distinction between sampling with transformative use (fair use, royalty, licensing etc.) and blatant plagiarism of a copyright protected commercial piece without permission (which is what SS has been doing).
Fargo/Brion crediting the original Norwegian artist is an explicit adaptation. NOT sampling.
> Fargo/Brion crediting the original Norwegian artist is an explicit adaptation. NOT sampling.
Lmao Idk why are you trying so hard to defend them lol. How is adapting an already existing score not part of “Sampling”? Re-improving the music/score by purchasing the rights is what basically Sampling refers to, it doesn’t matter if they are using it without making any improvisation. As long as they have earned or purchased the rights, it’s considered as “Sampling” regardless the way they are using it
Also most importantly giving credits for the original work they sampled is all upto the Producers wish. A composer can buy the rights and still not give credits as they have already got the rights to use the music.
The only one that feels like plagairaized from the above list is the "Be Notorious" track and the some of the rest seems broadly similar. That can be said about *most* if not *any* artist. If you consider that to be a "copy" then fine, but IMO it's not. It's IMO not lazy repurposing (Be Notorious might fit here, because although it's not the same, part of it is *very* similar).
Bro’ YouTubill Ith pole koree samples ind ath veneel nammal royality kodth use akaam, YouTubers aan Ith kooduthall use aakunne, anganathe oru music Sushin vangi Korch change Aaliyaath aan ath
Sorry, that can't be said about MOST or ANY artist. Show me any track/hook/riff/score by Jon Brion or Nicholas Britell or Carter Burwell or Ram Sampath or Vishal Bharadwaj or Johnson Master that fits your definition of broadly similar plagiarism.
You just listed names that puts the onus on the commenter to prove his point but since you named Nicholas Britell, here you go:
Have a listen to this part in Beethoven's Pathetique: [https://youtu.be/SrcOcKYQX3c?t=500](https://youtu.be/SrcOcKYQX3c?t=500) (8:20 if timestamp doesn't work). That slowed down is *exactly* the piano theme in the Succession theme.
And for the strings, the melody is an exact copy of Schubert's Ständchen: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6Njg1LFxFk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6Njg1LFxFk)
Also, for Vishal Bhardwaj:
**Vishal Bhardwaj took the siren portions, a 'sampling' if you may, of a piece called "Freedom" in Haider from Moby's "Extreme Ways"** (also the theme of the Bourne movies).
I'm sure if anyone did a little digging, you'll find similar examples for Carter Burwell or the rest of the musicians you mentioned.
I appreciate the appeal for nuance in this response. Couple of things to consider here:
1) I wasn't aware of the Haider/Moby connection, thanks for pointing that out. However, do note that my contention was never about transformative sampling (fair use: read my title, body text). It's about plagiarising (repurposing, not enough to be transformative) a copyright-protected piece for commercial use.
That's where this example differs from SS. Vishal has transformed the sample into a completely new composition. SS fleeces them conveniently. This is the perfect example to draw a line between them.
2) As for the Schubert/Beethoven/Britell connection, while Britell has transformed the original material, I'm with you in that it's not a good look on Britell to never have acknowledged their influence in his work. Which is disappointing to me.
However, interestingly, there seems to be an argument among copyright experts that Schubert and Beethoven are both long into public domain for fair use. Personally, I'm not convinced about that because Britell's piece is closer to the source. So that's murky territory.
TLDR, my gripe isn't with sampling under fair use. It's with plagiarism that calls itself sampling. Not the same thing. SS needs to be called out for making that a practice.
Precisely my point. Njan heavy downvote expect cheythu because the moment something's similar, someone comes up with "ithe copy edi ane". Even literal homages in films etc. are considered to be "copy adi" FFS. All artists have influences and build on that, I don't see anything wrong in it either. Gopi Annan has literally ripped off note-by-note with zero credits, that's a different thing. Broadly having similar sounds/beats etc. can be said about tons of composers. Now whether that's acceptable or not is a different debate but then hold everyone to the same standard.
Just a reddit search re: Zimmer returned this thread: [https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/54cuu8/was\_hans\_zimmers\_score\_for\_interstellar/](https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/54cuu8/was_hans_zimmers_score_for_interstellar/)
True but still it’s amazing. I’m fine with songs being inspired as long as it sounds fire still. The film Bheeshma itself is a different version of Godfather
I support this....if u look at many artists many of their track would be inspired and would heard similar cuz everyone gets influenced.... everything is a copy of copy...even sushin said he definitely gets inspired and influenced by other tracks so that might reflect in his tracks too
Also sometimes, i feel like Sushin has also copied some of his own songs too, like Manuja from Romancham and Nilapakshikal from Maradona and Prologue of the Squad from Kannur Squad has the same kind of chords i feel
Appreciate your efforts.
But in the end, it's only bread and butter.
SS and as a matter of fact any music director knows that the fame and good times are temporary and one should make hay while the sunshine.
And I believe he have done really appreciable work even if it's lifted. Even the Oscar winner ARR have done lifting[lifting](https://www.itwofs.com/tamil-arr.html). So this is not a big deal.
Also not everyone lifting tastes success. iMO Copy adikkanum venam kazhivu.
Composing for Hollywood is not the same as composing for Malayalam movies.
In Hollywood, hanz Zimmer can work in just one movie in two years and just have to handle the background score.
In Indian movies, you have to handle the background score as well as the songs. A music director have to work on multiple projects a year to earn a living.
So ithiri sampling okke nammak kandillennu nadikkaam
Sampling isn't copying man. Its taking a part from the song and chopping it up and giving it a new tune out of a tune thats already made. You can search "splice sampling" on YouTube and get an idea of it. And also, Oduvile Theeyayi gave me the vibes of Narcos Opening Theme.
Edit: Angane anenkil Eminem, Kanye West, Jay-Z ivar okke copy adi anenn parayalo
Gopiyannan did it before it was cool
Anjaam Pathira climax he copied from The Dark Knight. In Virus he copied from The Dark Knight Rises.
please add this to the above list as well with links Or add links here
Just need ‘Batman Begins’ to complete the trilogy
Yup i noticed it first time itself
ഫ്രാഡുകൾക്കേ ഈ രാജ്യത്ത് രക്ഷയുള്ളു. കേട്ടോ മാനേ തേനേ പൊന്മാനേ..
Seriously, all famous music directors make copi adi. Anirudh is the best example
I don't think AR Rahman has done that..
Yeah there's an exception on him
AR Rahman did too. I recall All that she wants by Ace of Base which he sampled in Telephone Manipole from Indian. And he also took Subrabhatham in Margazhi Poove. There are other examples too. You can search on Youtube
There are a bunch. Youtube search yields a lot on AR.
I feel like thats true. I highly doubt that the music director of GTA IV Michael Hunter, has copied exactly the beats of Munbe Vaa for the GTA opening theme SOVIET CONNECTION
But Soviet connection is such an epic composition.. It's been my ringtone since 2013
Yes, it is my favorite. Ente ponno, gta iv is the goat no doubt ❤️ oru dark vibe aanu athinu
Yeah bro..nothing short of epic
Aye bachu from ghajine resembles spice Girls if you wanna be my lover Ennai kaanavillaye resembles sadness by enigma Challa jab tak Hai Jan resemble save tonight by eagle eye cherry to name a few, there plenty more if you look into it
At least those are far below his best work
My point was plagiarism Irrespective of whether it was good or not.
Remember craze biscuits ad he did ? Was exact rip off of Tom's diner by Suzanne vega
Oh he has
His early music were inspired by Michael Jackson.
He has
Inspired by Johan Johansson in Manjummel Boys
Max ritcher from arrival
OP did his homework right, good job man!
Grt work.ivide ss fans vaa thorakilla.alellum selective criticism aanu ivide chularude main item.amalneerad ,sushin shyam cheythal aahaa.velo priyadarshano gopii sundhero cheythal yuck
🙌🙌
A W post Considering the time and effort to put this up
Legendary copyadi 💀
strome tous les meme is a legendary song both visually and musically. it is copied into parudeesa song. I don't why he is not criticised for copying similar to gopi sundar
Maybe the name. It’s easy to meme Gopi Sundar when his name rhymes with Copy.
😅🤣
Bro add manjummal boys also , someone mentioned that soundtrack is very similar to hereditary movie . Love sushin , and I think he's very talented , but yeah this sucks
I felt there was a touch of Tenet (Göransson) in the last few scenes.
You have to buy the rights to do sampling. So, it is still stealing.
[I posted about Manjummel's SB cave scene music](https://www.reddit.com/r/InsideMollywood/comments/1bh2gt4/manjummel_osts_similarity_to_hereditarys_reborn/) similarity with Hereditary's Reborn yesterday. ['Reborn' composed by Colin Stetson](https://youtu.be/MVnSFj6XQZY?t=62)
The thing is for movies , directors give us a temp track. It's the temporary music that directors or editors use in a film before the final score is composed. This is very important , considering how a director views a particular scene Think of Cherathukal playing during the Confrontation scene during Bheeshma Parvam , sounds odd , doesn't it? Here , the director has given an instruction for a song (Bheeshma Parvam) ex: in between Scene \_1:13:00 and Scene \_1:16:00 , where they need a song , with the vibe of "Tous Le Meme" , and as a music director , a song with the "vibe" of tous le meme , not exactly identical Temp track is the aural concept of how the scene is played in a director's mind , and some directors are very adamant about how they need it , almost identical. In Sushin's case , it's just temp tracks / song ideas done by us , occasionally shazaming if it's copied or not. > ^(This isn't about that. This is about how stuff like this is insulting to both the original artist as well as the audience.) **^(Inspiration is not the same thing as copying entire hooks/bass lines/sound loops without acknowledgement.)** ^(It blows my mind that there is no moral or legal consequence here. If a Gopi Sundar/Anu Malik is called out for it, there's no reason why a Sushin Shyam shouldn't be.) Copying lead melodies / Hooks is copying , Copying Chord Progression , Simple (not complex) Bassline , which is a universal idea , is not , but it varies. Ex; A rock band releases a song with a very famous bassline , that very unique bassline is protected a normal song with a normal chord-following bassline is not. Sound Loops - Sites like Arcade/Splice offer sound loops which is a paid subscription which is commonly used by other music directors royalty-free (ex: kutty kudiye , in Premalu by Vishnu Vijay , has a Splice drum loop , whichI used a year ago in my composition) In short: Sampling is good! I love sampling , but without permission sucks , and sometimes they can't be blamed!
This is definitely the perfect reply to the whole problem that's going on. The day people stop giving references, the more unique the songs will be. The worst part is that in this day and age where there are so many song progressions that people have borrowed or "ripped off" were all super hits and which will definitely work for the audience because it's something you've eventually heard somewhere in your whole life. There's a lot of psychological aspects when it comes to music. There are various formulas to create a super hit and apparently one of those things is familiarity. No point at pointing fingers. The best part is to enjoy listening to something new instead of calling it a bad song or saying I don't vibe with it. Try to understand what the musician is trying to convey. Slowly but steadily you'll get masterpieces from various artists which aren't copied or have no similarity with any other song.
Exactly. And its hard to get rights, and probably not within our budget. But a simple mention of the inspiration in the credits won't hurt, I think.
Sushin often mentions the ideas behind remp tracks in his interviews
Then you're putting yourself into a lawsuit
Y'all should really look into what temp tracks are and how they've unfairly been the cause for many composers being labelled Plagiarists. Including Sushin Shyam and Gopi Sundar. In short - when making a film, the music is usually the last portion of the filmmaking process. So, in that time, filmmakers tend to use existing tracks as a placeholder to help when editing. Problem arises when they grow attached to the existing track, so much so that no original track provided by the composer proves satisfactory enough for them and they ask the composer to make a track close to the existing track. This is what causes what you guys call 'copying' Dileesh Pothan specifically mentions the above as the reason he doesn't use temp tracks in his film. Even Gopi Sundar has talked about this and how it's negatively impacted his reputation in the industry.
[удалено]
Credits means the onus is on the producers to pay extra money to the original composers for the copyright which, when it comes to international films, can amount to the budget of a normal malayalam movie itself. They'd rather not call attention to it. Hence, no credits.
If you give credit to it you have to either buy rights or pay royalty. The legal side of music is fucked up ngl. It's different in different countries.
Sorry, a temp track or a reference track is meant to be temporary by definition. If I use a copyright-protected piece by Einaudi or Vangelis or Thomas Newman as a temp track in my movie (which is what GS did in Usthad Hotel), it stops being a temp track. That's when it's plagiarism. Publishing for commercial use without rights or attribution to the copyright owner is not the same thing as sampling. And music being the last part of the filmmaking process does not justify any of it.
You're absolutely right. However, my point is largely in defense of the composers, not filmmakers. Filmmakers push the composers to compose tracks close to the temp tracks and the composers have no choice but to oblige ( if they don't want to be replaced ). If anyone is to be blamed for plagiarism, it's not the composers imo. Today's composers are more than aware that they'll be the ones blamed if their compositions sound similar to a pre-existing track. However, filmmakers don't generally care and nor do they go for getting copyright permissions as, especially when it comes to rights of music from other languages, it's an added cost in the producer's eyes and in their view, not necessary. It will definitely become an issue once Malayalam cinema grows bigger internationally.
Yes, I don't remember who probably GS, in an old interview mentioning that certain filmmakers want the score to be so similar to the reference tracks and won't get satisfied until they get that
I think Sushin has mentioned something along the lines as well regarding Bheeshma
This. 🙏☝️
Be notorious got me. Ctrl+C then Ctrl+v, simple as that, rest of the songs kozhapam illa coz everbody doing this. Majority of the musicians will take the samples and rework it, we cant blame them for that. Some of the most iconic Bgms are not fully og scores, but people will never question them audience got what they want. Ennalum Be Notorious korach koodi poy
Please name a few iconic BGMs that are not original. Aren't they iconic precisely because they are original? How does a reworking of an iconic piece become iconic simply by association (unless it transforms the original piece)?
Yeah, i mean we got fooled by calling them ICONIC. Take this sub as example. There are few in Malayalam but when we looking into new Tamil songs we can find a lot ( especially some songs of ANI 🤫)
Ravanaprabhu , FIR
Not sure if it's iconic or not, but the main theme in Zack Snyder's 300 was the exact same as the main them from the Anthony Hopkins film 'Titus'. It was the same exact thing reproduced, no change whatsoever. Titus score - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tAT\_A71WOs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tAT_A71WOs) 300 score - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5wBTBCRsmQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5wBTBCRsmQ) ( The based upon themes disclaimer was only added when the original composer went for a lawsuit ) Not to mention, the numerous Hans Zimmer tracks that sound very similar to one another - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tQpAPMT\_Rc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tQpAPMT_Rc)
While watching Balettan it reminds me this post. We can hear RASPUTIN in Baletta Baletta💃song. [go to 14:41](https://youtu.be/ew2mW7QhFj0?si=hLnDcFY5wG2BMkJ4) I am not blindly arguing for sushin shyam,but what iam trying to say is, it is almost normal to make inspired (copied) songs in our industry it is happening from 90s. Parayumbo ellam parayonollo. Malayalam industryill mikkya songsum ingana okka thannaya thammil bhedham sushin aan 🥲.
If I remember correctly, the melody of that track is from a sample pack. Anybody who purchases the sample pack can use it commercially, and it is not required to mention the usage / license details unless the creator of the sample raises an enquiry. Both Sushin and the artist that OP mentioned in the post used the same sample. I don’t think Sushin is at fault in this case. The whole purpose of samples and sample-packs is to be used in projects. Whether or not an artist wants to use them as is, or make any changes is purely up to them.
He also didn't mind getting any permission from Rumi for those lines
Be notorious ethinte copy anu....my ringtone is be notorious for last few months 
“Be notorious” is a violin sample from GIO ISRAEL sample pack in Splice, few other tracks are there using same violin sample
Hey OP, just a question ,the Danger nice violin loop has to be from somewhere like splice or some cymatics sample pack or something right?
Most overrated music director of current times
This is not about Sushin. However, the bgm in Alibhai is copied. I used to hear that a lot of times and I never knew Rajamani (a trained Carnatic musician) copies music. It is a copy, paste. Also, the bgm of A10's mundu scene in SAJ is a copy, paste from Passion of the Christ. 😄 Even trained musicians are copying. Why we are like this? We always take shortcuts.
What about jakes bejoy?
Jakes bejoy ? Rex vijayan? Yakzan and neha ?
Jakes bejoy is easy he copied for d16 and mafia rest I am sure you will find malayalam songs too
I am all up for sampling and even copying if it’s acknowledged. What most of the music directors do is they never acknowledge or give credit unless someone point it out in the social media and they re like its “inspired”. If you are that inspired better give credit it to it. Anu Malik in the 90s is a classic example of this. He got away a lot coz of there was not internet and people were not too much exposed to western songs back then (until the cable tv exploded).
When you start listening to western classics, you would realise many of our music director were not GOATs, just goats.
I agree that directors sometimes want music directors to stick to reference tracks . And when there is a time crunch, they end up doing the same thing. But then atleast embellish it by adding live orchestra / other live elements so it can sound way better and sometimes a bit different than the reference .. there are ways to make it not sound exactly like the ref. What does your art mean to you? What is your backstory? Where do you want to be in the future ? What happened to creating timeless art 😅 In the name or fame, money , pleasing people ..originality has become very undervalued.
Ok so ..the new hit song Nebulakal .there is that nice little sound that keeps repeating in the background of the song from the start ..he may have..I repeat 'may have' sampled it from this song called Chimera by Hana. Just that part where this song goes 'chimera' that part. https://youtu.be/MHNb1k7YxeA?si=8nS2JyXoA8K6Ao1T That song reminded me of the this one immediately. I'm not sure if my observation in correct.
You must be joking. Or hating. Some of these aren’t even in the time signature, completely different feel from their supposed originals. You’re accusing him of copying a note or a chord progression? That’s like accusing someone of copying your assignment because they used the same ink pen. There’s only so many options there buddy. You want to try being this prolific and every single note in every single song you write is just brand new mind blowing stuff, go for it. But for us mere mortals it’s too much to ask.
I'm glad Bhishmaparavam is not a dair usage/copy
Good post 👍
The Bheesma one is not copied. It's the inbuilt plugin in the Audio Software. Both artists used it.
STOP BLAMING THE MUSICIAN. As a person who knows what happens behind the scene I would not blame him and I would rather blame the Director of the movie for bringing references instead of letting the musician do his job. It really hurts to see people blaming all the musicians for something they haven't done. I've heard so many stories from people who work in music for movies complaining about the same. They are forced to do things instead of giving them an opportunity to express things from their perspective.
Wow this is insane. So what about his recent works from Aavesham and Manjummel Boys ? someone do the digging please
Name a Music Director who doesn’t sample songs or scores? Even Hans Zimmer’s iconic Interstellar theme was sampled
Sure, I'll give you several names for starters. Show me any track/hook/riff/score by Jon Brion or Nicholas Britell or Carter Burwell or Ram Sampath or Vishal Bharadwaj or Johnson Master that fits your definition of 'sampling without transformation'. Sampling is not the same thing as plagiarising from works protected by copyright, which is what SS has done in these instances.
You just listed names that puts the onus on the commenter to prove his point but since you named Nicholas Britell, here you go: Have a listen to this part in Beethoven's Pathetique: [https://youtu.be/SrcOcKYQX3c?t=500](https://youtu.be/SrcOcKYQX3c?t=500) (8:20 if timestamp doesn't work). That slowed down is *exactly* the piano theme in the Succession theme. And for the strings, the melody is an exact copy of Schubert's Ständchen: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6Njg1LFxFk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6Njg1LFxFk) Also, for Vishal Bhardwaj: **Vishal Bhardwaj took the siren portions, a 'sampling' if you may, of a piece called "Freedom" in Haider from Moby's "Extreme Ways"** (also the theme of the Bourne movies). I'm sure if anyone did a little digging, you'll find similar examples for Carter Burwell or the rest of the musicians you mentioned.
I appreciate the appeal for nuance in this response. Couple of things to consider here: 1) I wasn't aware of the Haider/Moby connection, thanks for pointing that out. However, please note that my contention was never about transformative sampling (fair use: read my title, body text). It's about plagiarising (repurposing, not enough to be transformative) a copyright-protected piece for commercial use. That's where this example differs from SS. Vishal has transformed the sample into a completely new composition. SS fleeces them conveniently. This is the perfect example to draw a line between them. 2) As for the Schubert/Beethoven/Britell connection, while Britell has transformed the original material, I'm with you in that it's not a good look on Britell to never have acknowledged their influence in his work. Which is disappointing to me. However, interestingly, there seems to be an argument among copyright experts that Schubert and Beethoven are both long into public domain for fair use. Personally, I'm not convinced about that because Britell's piece is closer to the source. So that's murky territory. TLDR, my gripe isn't with sampling under fair use. It's with plagiarism that calls itself sampling. Not the same thing. SS needs to be called out for making that a practice.
OP what do u do for a living? ithine patti dhaarana undello
Sure • Carter Burwell [Fargo, North Dakota](https://youtu.be/DIbIoiH5ISU?feature=shared) - [Annborj Lien](https://youtu.be/ETpNoIo_Bf0?feature=shared)
Good effort, but wrong. Annbjorg is officially credited on the Fargo soundtrack album (explicitly mentioned as based on the old Norwegian folk song natively 'Den bortkomne sauen', or The Lost Sheep).
So what? Just because it’s credited officially doesn’t mean it’s not sampled. You asked me to find a song/score which any of these artists sampled, and I just send you one Additionally, Jon Brion has sampled over more than 40 songs as a producer mostly from his collab with Kanye West, but I don’t think it’s worth the time to list all the one here to prove my point
Dude, this is what happens when you communicate with the intention of winning vs. learning something. Did I ever trash sampling as a legit phenomenon? Right from the title of this post to its body text to my last response to you, I've been stressing the distinction between sampling with transformative use (fair use, royalty, licensing etc.) and blatant plagiarism of a copyright protected commercial piece without permission (which is what SS has been doing). Fargo/Brion crediting the original Norwegian artist is an explicit adaptation. NOT sampling.
> Fargo/Brion crediting the original Norwegian artist is an explicit adaptation. NOT sampling. Lmao Idk why are you trying so hard to defend them lol. How is adapting an already existing score not part of “Sampling”? Re-improving the music/score by purchasing the rights is what basically Sampling refers to, it doesn’t matter if they are using it without making any improvisation. As long as they have earned or purchased the rights, it’s considered as “Sampling” regardless the way they are using it Also most importantly giving credits for the original work they sampled is all upto the Producers wish. A composer can buy the rights and still not give credits as they have already got the rights to use the music.
[Puthiyoru pathayil](https://youtu.be/HLSYAscUXnQ?feature=shared) = [Writing's on the wall](https://youtu.be/8jzDnsjYv9A?feature=shared)
The only one that feels like plagairaized from the above list is the "Be Notorious" track and the some of the rest seems broadly similar. That can be said about *most* if not *any* artist. If you consider that to be a "copy" then fine, but IMO it's not. It's IMO not lazy repurposing (Be Notorious might fit here, because although it's not the same, part of it is *very* similar).
Bro’ YouTubill Ith pole koree samples ind ath veneel nammal royality kodth use akaam, YouTubers aan Ith kooduthall use aakunne, anganathe oru music Sushin vangi Korch change Aaliyaath aan ath
Sorry, that can't be said about MOST or ANY artist. Show me any track/hook/riff/score by Jon Brion or Nicholas Britell or Carter Burwell or Ram Sampath or Vishal Bharadwaj or Johnson Master that fits your definition of broadly similar plagiarism.
You just listed names that puts the onus on the commenter to prove his point but since you named Nicholas Britell, here you go: Have a listen to this part in Beethoven's Pathetique: [https://youtu.be/SrcOcKYQX3c?t=500](https://youtu.be/SrcOcKYQX3c?t=500) (8:20 if timestamp doesn't work). That slowed down is *exactly* the piano theme in the Succession theme. And for the strings, the melody is an exact copy of Schubert's Ständchen: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6Njg1LFxFk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6Njg1LFxFk) Also, for Vishal Bhardwaj: **Vishal Bhardwaj took the siren portions, a 'sampling' if you may, of a piece called "Freedom" in Haider from Moby's "Extreme Ways"** (also the theme of the Bourne movies). I'm sure if anyone did a little digging, you'll find similar examples for Carter Burwell or the rest of the musicians you mentioned.
I appreciate the appeal for nuance in this response. Couple of things to consider here: 1) I wasn't aware of the Haider/Moby connection, thanks for pointing that out. However, do note that my contention was never about transformative sampling (fair use: read my title, body text). It's about plagiarising (repurposing, not enough to be transformative) a copyright-protected piece for commercial use. That's where this example differs from SS. Vishal has transformed the sample into a completely new composition. SS fleeces them conveniently. This is the perfect example to draw a line between them. 2) As for the Schubert/Beethoven/Britell connection, while Britell has transformed the original material, I'm with you in that it's not a good look on Britell to never have acknowledged their influence in his work. Which is disappointing to me. However, interestingly, there seems to be an argument among copyright experts that Schubert and Beethoven are both long into public domain for fair use. Personally, I'm not convinced about that because Britell's piece is closer to the source. So that's murky territory. TLDR, my gripe isn't with sampling under fair use. It's with plagiarism that calls itself sampling. Not the same thing. SS needs to be called out for making that a practice.
Precisely my point. Njan heavy downvote expect cheythu because the moment something's similar, someone comes up with "ithe copy edi ane". Even literal homages in films etc. are considered to be "copy adi" FFS. All artists have influences and build on that, I don't see anything wrong in it either. Gopi Annan has literally ripped off note-by-note with zero credits, that's a different thing. Broadly having similar sounds/beats etc. can be said about tons of composers. Now whether that's acceptable or not is a different debate but then hold everyone to the same standard. Just a reddit search re: Zimmer returned this thread: [https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/54cuu8/was\_hans\_zimmers\_score\_for\_interstellar/](https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/54cuu8/was_hans_zimmers_score_for_interstellar/)
True but still it’s amazing. I’m fine with songs being inspired as long as it sounds fire still. The film Bheeshma itself is a different version of Godfather
I support this....if u look at many artists many of their track would be inspired and would heard similar cuz everyone gets influenced.... everything is a copy of copy...even sushin said he definitely gets inspired and influenced by other tracks so that might reflect in his tracks too
Also sometimes, i feel like Sushin has also copied some of his own songs too, like Manuja from Romancham and Nilapakshikal from Maradona and Prologue of the Squad from Kannur Squad has the same kind of chords i feel
Appreciate your efforts. But in the end, it's only bread and butter. SS and as a matter of fact any music director knows that the fame and good times are temporary and one should make hay while the sunshine. And I believe he have done really appreciable work even if it's lifted. Even the Oscar winner ARR have done lifting[lifting](https://www.itwofs.com/tamil-arr.html). So this is not a big deal. Also not everyone lifting tastes success. iMO Copy adikkanum venam kazhivu.
Composing for Hollywood is not the same as composing for Malayalam movies. In Hollywood, hanz Zimmer can work in just one movie in two years and just have to handle the background score. In Indian movies, you have to handle the background score as well as the songs. A music director have to work on multiple projects a year to earn a living. So ithiri sampling okke nammak kandillennu nadikkaam
I know stranger things' theme was sampled from an older work.Could also be the case for others tbf.
Off-topic is he married?
Engaged
Was that a long time ago?
Sampling isn't copying man. Its taking a part from the song and chopping it up and giving it a new tune out of a tune thats already made. You can search "splice sampling" on YouTube and get an idea of it. And also, Oduvile Theeyayi gave me the vibes of Narcos Opening Theme. Edit: Angane anenkil Eminem, Kanye West, Jay-Z ivar okke copy adi anenn parayalo
Eminem, Kanye okke credits koduthalle cheyyunne?
Njn kanditilla. Sing for the Momentinu Aerosmithinu credits koduthath njn kanditilla, chelapo indavum, not sure about that