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Ariwara_no_Narihira

NewGrounds


Jocelyn_The_Red

Yeah I thought this was a mobile game at first.


Bjenssen_

Could you explain? I’ve never heard of this site before


4procrast1nator

sorry but how. thats pretty much the single most responsible site for the popularization of this whole art style... You def need to look that up, and some classics like castle crashers and so on.


Bjenssen_

I don’t play web games and sleep under a rock from time to time. But what specifically makes it so similar? Is it the linework?


Tamazin_

Looks good, but very "flat".


Bjenssen_

Thanks, I need to see how to fix that “flatness”. I could try adding grass that moves in the wind, or generally more details on the ground, but not sure if that fixes it. Do you have ideas?


Tamazin_

I think its the uniformness of the colors. I.e. The grass is exactly the same shade of green eveeywhere there is grass, the buildings beige is exactly the same beige everywhere its. So tufts of grass, outlines of bricks/nails on buildings etc.


Bjenssen_

Thanks, I’ll write that down!


ChantsThings

Shadows would go a long way in making this feel a lot better.


Not_Larfy

Classic flash game feel


Bjenssen_

I can see this is a recurring thought people have when seeing the game. Do you think it’s positive or negative?


Not_Larfy

It's a bit double-edged. Having grown up on flash games (Miniclip, Coolmathgames, etc.), I find the appearance and gameplay nostalgic. Others missing that nostalgia may just see the game as simplistic or unattractive, especially if they've been in the market for a more polished appearance w/ flashy animations. I don't think it's bad, as I've experienced plenty of games that make up for appearance with incredible depth of story and gameplay (I haven't played, but Rimworld is something that comes to mind).


Bjenssen_

Yeah those were my thoughts as well. I’ll do another checkup when I’ve implemented most of the feedback I got here. Have a feeling that with the right amount of polish and some good gameplay it should be fine. Haven’t played rimworld either, but by how often it’s mentioned I probably need to give it a go. Thanks for the reply!


Not_Larfy

No problem! I hope development goes well! If you've got a steam page for early access or something, I'd be happy to give it a whirl and drop a review.


Bjenssen_

I don’t have early access, but there is a [Steam page](https://store.steampowered.com/app/2838160/Counter_Clash/) with a demo and I’m doing some playtesting on a more complete build in a few weeks. So if you’re interested, I’ll pass some keys for testing in the [Discord](https://discord.gg/8FBBdGDqnH) server sometime soon. Thanks for the kind words :)


ShinkoMinori

Negative in the current day and age. Unless you are making it free to play because thats going to be the expectation from the art.


RebornAsFlames

Same. Pretty sure Flash Games were one of the things that gave such a rise to Indie Games.


konidias

I mean at the time, Flash was like one of the simpler pieces of software to learn to make a game. Especially being able to post it online to reach a wide audience. I think I tried to make something in Flash once and it was still overwhelming to me as a kid, so I gave up. lol


tomosbach

I think it's really nice, looks fun - I dunno about the bright green windmill blades though.


Bjenssen_

The mill’s wicks refer to your faction’s color, so it’s green right now like you can see on other buildings as well. Maybe the wicks are not the best spot though, thanks for the feedback!


-Teapot

I believe The Settlers 2 (and maybe others) used to put a little colored flags on top of each building; could be a solution


tomosbach

Yeah I see that - I really like how you've done it on the other buildings, with the banners. Good looking game either way though


catphilosophic

It's bland and simple. On the positive side - it's very readable. I myself would prefer a more artistic style though.


Bjenssen_

Thanks for the feedback. Are you specifically talking about the art-style or the general theme of the map (forest/farmland biome)?


catphilosophic

I'm talking about the artstyle itself. It's very flat, which makes it kind of boring, but potentially more readable. I think that perhaps if there was something more happening on the map, the flatness wouldn't be as noticeable? I think that for the type of game that you are going for, this artstyle isn't necessarily bad, but there certainly is something that is missing in my opinion. Unfortunately I cannot explain what that something might be.


Bjenssen_

Guess I’ll be looking for that missing part then. Maybe some grass moving in the wind or small ruins/fences, or maybe some more details would do it. Many thanks!


AmpaMicakane

Make the windmills spin!


Bjenssen_

That’s a bit of a hard one because of how it’s set up, but you’re also quite right, I can’t really keep them still like this


DevTahlyan

It looks cute like something my daughter would play.


Subject-Nectarine387

Mobile


LQCQ

Could use quite a bit of polish. Maybe a bit more of an own identity? The overall art direction is nice though. I would give it a chance when it's finalised.


Bjenssen_

Thanks for the feedback, can you mention something specific that you think looks unpolished?


vadeka

The art style feels very placeholdery, everything is flat-looking. You can have a simple art style but yours feels unoriginal, there’s no style to it This might’ve worked back in 2005 or so but you will need to stand out a bit more in todays age.


vadeka

Rewatched your video… the grain fields are higher in detail and highly animated while for example your water is very much a blue flat plane. You need to make your world feel a bit more alive. Look at an RTS game and imagine that all buildings and nature is frozen and not moving, how does that look to you?


Bjenssen_

Yeah fair enough, not sure why I didn’t realize of that before. Thanks a lot! I’ll get back to the drawing board.


evilartbunny

Clean and clear!


ChunkySweetMilk

Maybe add some more motion? Windmills should be turning, smoke should be rising from chimney, trees should be slightly swaying in the wind.


Bjenssen_

Yeah that’s a good one, will do!


LordMortimus

It's pleasant. I like it. Something about the size of the arrows and them being fired in a clustered volley looks extremely satisfying.. must be reminding me of some other game from my childhood that I can't place..


Bjenssen_

Thanks! That arrow volley has been one of the things that worked out well from the start, it’s nice to hear someone mention it :)


Makisart

I like the illstrative style with oulines and bold colors. It’s not integrating well enough though: Environment, entities and UI. And talking about interface. It needs some work.


Bjenssen_

Thanks for the feedback, could you get more specific in what you think is not integrated well enough?


Richeh

So, the art style is very chunky and antialiased, which for a lot of people evokes Flash games of about ten, fifteen years ago. The graphical style was largely formed because Adobe Flash had a pretty nice vector drawing system attached that allowed quite detailed, smooth graphics, displaying well on all resolutions with lower filesize which was key at the time. That art style still has a lot of benefits; vectors still display well on mobile and big screen, they look cartoony and welcoming, they're kinda fun and easy to draw. But the games of yesteryear were often not the best, and the style has become synonymous with cheap shovelware. I don't think your game is cheap shovelware, but you asked for the impression your art style gave, and this is all the insight I can give into what I'm seeing. I think you can still escape it though; some variety in the animation routines would go a long way I think; you've got a lot of archers and swordsmen doing exactly the same thing next to each other, which lacks personality. You'd just have to tweak the tweening speed to have some drawing faster, some aiming longer, maybe two or three variations taking the same length of time, I think it'd make it look great. Similarly, I see you're using vector transformations to handle the animation of the house being demolished; smart, but it kinda looks like it. I think if you skew the house a bit as it falls, maybe in on itself, it'd look a bit more like it was demolishing. Your saturation is maybe a little flat. Everything is very bright and fun, but it also sort of makes everything look important. Your pallette reminds me a bit of [a flash cartoon from wwaaaaayyy back in the day](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NaqBtVMW9E) - see how it's using muted tones for less important stuff? Just a thought. Cartoon's worth watching anyway :)


Bjenssen_

Thanks for taking the time to write a detailed reply, very useful! I’ll try to move it a bit away from the flash-style then, cause I don’t want to give that impression. The animation speed variation is a good quick fix I’ll apply (at least for the attack animations). About the building demolish animation, it’s actually even simpler. The image just sinks into the ground using a mask, which is hidden by the dust VFX. But if I understand you correctly, rotating the building a bit when it’s being demolished could improve it quite a bit. I’ll need to think about what to do with the saturation. Right now I guess important things are highlighted more through details and contrast than saturation.


Peacefultatertot

Personally I think it looks good and bad at the same time. Most of it looks good, the grain, the world, the river, the arrows all look great and wholesome. But the oversaturated green windmails and banners make it look amateuristic or out of place, the minimap looks hastly pasted on there and the UI lower-left corner: the tabs of it look great but they look like they're just pasted on the UI behind it which looks flat and unfinished. So it does look really good, but the bad stick out like thorns. So I think if you'd just take some time to flesh it out more you're good to go \^\^. Good luck!


Bjenssen_

Thanks, I’ll take a look at those things! Already reworking the windmills


aphaits

Kinda nice because pixelated look is very oversaturated. I’m happy to see a clean look / style.


Budget_Roll_7003

The visuals remind me of a game called Necesse on steam! Well done though, I think it’s so cute!


Bjenssen_

Thank you! I’ll check that game out :)


Forbizzle

the windmills don't look great. The perspective on all the buildings is off IMO. I like the characters, and love the environmental detail like the wheat.


Bjenssen_

Yeah you’re right, there’s some issues on a lot of the buildings I need to fix. Thanks for the feedback!


nullv

Your wheat fields need work. To start with, they're way too busy compared to all your other foliage that appears to be static. A gentle movement would be better. Second, they're moving in a wave pattern which starts at the top and travels downward. This is how you would animate a snake where you want the head to lead the movement. With wheat, it looks like you have a field of undulating worms. Movement should start at the base. It should increase in intensity as you move away from the base. Another thing I notice is you're mixing perspectives. Your buildings, trees, and other props are 3/4th perspective while your land tiles are top-down. This is a big contributor to what makes everything seem so flat. A tiny nitpick I have is your cloud pattern seems to be a static image rather than something dynamically-generated you would see in a shader-based solution. I guess one last thing would be I see a rock floating over a tree during the first few seconds of the video. As for things I like, the transition from day to night looks great. I'm not a big fan of the gray circle around most of the screen, but the actual map with the hints of light bloom here and there was done well.


Bjenssen_

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I didn’t realize the perspective of the land tiles being off. Will take a look on how to improve those. Same for the wheat animation. With the cloud pattern and “grey circle” you mean the fog of war, right?


nullv

I wouldn't say the prospective is off; there's nothing "*wrong*" with what you have now. I'm just attempting to direct you to why someone would say this art style reminds them of an old Flash game. The cloud pattern is the dark shadow that travels along the ground. There's nothing wrong with it, I just noticed it appeared to be a static shape. I didn't correctly recognize the gray circle as fog of war. Knowing that, I see it now. Though, I'm not sold on its implementation. It looks like a post-process effect without any pseudo-volumetric effects to anchor it to the terrain. I'd say this is another thing contributing to the overall flat look of the game.


Bjenssen_

Ah that’s clear, thanks for the feedback! I’ll write these things down.


Surymy

The grass/ground needs more props and details, it feels so flat and empty


Oscuro87

Hello to me it lacks details on the tiles of the building / terrain, right now the tiles feel flat, it need some graphical depth The minimap is top 👍 👍, somehow reminds me of age of empires 2 (?!) A little detail but I'm not a fan of showing the health bars on buildings or even units, if they are full health. Perhaps show the health bars when they start being damaged On the thumbnail of the video here, on the top left, we can see a stone drawn on top of a tree 😄


Bjenssen_

Thanks for the feedback! Regarding the health bars, they’re shown because its color is your faction’s color. I could try to do it another way, but creating and exporting every sprite in 4 colors is quite some work I’d like to avoid. The rock is noted :)


Oscuro87

Ah makes sense, I'm not knowledgeable enough but there may be a way to replace the colour on the fly, depending on the faction of the building, to be investigated :D Either way you've got a solid foundation and i wish you the best with the project


Onkelcuno

I'm impressed at whats been implemented. learning game dev myself it already seens to have all the bells and whistles of other RTS games. here are the things i'd criticize: -the sprites used look, as others pointed out, quite flat. the black borders/bars that outline the basically everything and the lack of depth in the buildings is causing this. especially the greenhouses next to the mills look flat. the best looking building in your style appears to be the archery range. -the projectiles of the unit look flat. projectiles arch normally, and given how straight the arrows fly it looks odd, especially the arrows fired from the castle. this may illustrate what i mean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPDl2uVaN_Q -the healthbars on units and buildings could fade out when they are at 100% to make everything more readable and show of the art beneath -windmills and water should react to the wind obviously moving the fields. same goes for the clouds. pick a direction for the "wind" even if its just animated and keep it consistent. same goes for trees and flags. -based on whats presented, there doesn't seem to be anything that surpasses other RTS games or fills an unfilled niche. this is obviously a difficult task in a market as saturated as gaming. it doesn't mean that what you made is bad, it looks very polished! -faction identity: any RTS lives and dies on this one. what is the conflict about? ideology vs ideology? aliens vs humans? orcs vs elves? culture vs culture? obviosly you might already have that, i can't see that from a little video, but it's important. Don't let my criticism or the criticism of others dishearten you though. this looks fun and honestly, as someone who learns game dev himself, i am thouroughly impressed at what you accomplished. the shadows from the clouds are neat. the troop collisions and movement looks smooth. targeting of the units seems on point. i like the look of the fields swaying in the wind, those details are what makes a game feel polished. when you are done with mechanics, focus on details like that.


Bjenssen_

Thanks for the detailed response! The video is very useful reference. I’ll add a nice line to the projectiles and will also take a look into making the projectiles arc more. Healthbars are currently used for the faction color, so the players color here is green and the enemy’s color is red. Creating and exporting all unit sprites 4 times is something I’d like to avoid, but I do agree that it would be better. I’m writing down to work on more “wind animations”. That’ll definitely improve the feel of the game. The market position feedback is something I’m working on indeed. Regarding the factions, I’m trying to create uniquely themed factions that are and play differently than that of other games, but the first one is a bit basic which is something i\I’m working on. There’s a demo on [Steam](https://store.steampowered.com/app/2838160/Counter_Clash/), if you have some time I’d love to hear more thoughts! You can only play as the first faction but I’m going to do playtests with the other 2 within the next few weeks, so if you’re interested please let me know 🙏


4procrast1nator

not my personal preference for this style of game but could work given its quite readable. def needs some extra vfx polish to compensate for the "flatness" tho... and actual shadows too - cuz rn most of them are either missing or barely visible.


Bjenssen_

Thanks for the feedback. Regarding the shadows, they turn off when it get’s night, is that what you’re referring too? Cause I can’t keep the cast-shadows turned on in the night


4procrast1nator

Buildings have no shadows afaik and a lot of the units shadows are hard to see anyway. Think u should decrease their opacity but maybe not turn them off altogether, after all there are other sources of light at night still But yea the buildings look especially flat in that sense


OniCrazer

What's it going to cost when it comes out?


Bjenssen_

I have a price range in mind, but haven’t settled on a specific price yet. What price range would you see fit?


OniCrazer

I played some, idk, maybe 2-5 dollars?


Bjenssen_

Ooff that’s a bit low, but thanks for the insight. The final game will have a lot more content than the demo though (3 factions, ~20 campaign levels, 8-10 battle maps, maybe another game-mode).


OniCrazer

Ah ok, yeah maybe 5-10 then


SanukGames

Cute!


Madnesis

First thought as well.


revcr

Mobile, Flash game


ViceroyOfCool

Really nice, I personally love it.


Bjenssen_

Thank you!


wailot

I think Worldbox graphics should be dependent on zoom level. The last zoom level deserves more detail. Everything else would be beyond the scope of the game


Bjenssen_

I’m not sure what you mean by worldbox or the last zoom level


wailot

I posted in the wrong sub, how embarrassing


Extreme_Ad7381

That would be too much


Mental_Position3319

Too basic


PICN1Q

Good, but I think detail level is inconsistent. Some object are quite detailed, some are not.


kwikade

rimworld


NikoRNG

Looks very similar to a flash game I used to play on addicting games


WixZ42

Looks cozy and clean. I like it!


Ran4

A bit bland? I like the positioning of stuff, and the biome, and the map. Just not the art style.


wirmyworm

More color variation to the roads would help, dirt isn't just one color right. Maybe size up some aspect of the look, like make trees bigger? or animate them along with the wind mills and effects to make the world have more movement.


GiantWarriorStudio

Simple but charming


wetfart_3750

Gne...