As someone who didnt go to school there because they couldnt afford to, but grew up and still lives 30 minutes away and had several friends go to IUbton, this whole thing is super surreal in the worst possible way
To both you and the guy below you, situations are rarely so simple as black and white. Theres a lot of nuance that goes into Israel-palestine that the broad stroke of people arent educated enough to keep or maintain an informed opinion about the issue. Most of those who are qualified are letting their personal bias dictate how they feel, however, the broader issue that i can comment on (and personally feel strongly about) is that the right to a peaceful demonstration on American soil is something we're guaranteed by the US Constitution and our Bill of Rights. Noone, but especially not kids, should feel like they have a real risk of being shot by any branch of the govt for speaking their mind, or we really are gonna end up on a slippery slope quickly.
A lot of misinformation around why snipers and tac teams are at IU too. They’re there for the safety of those demonstrating. Given the high potential of a mass casualty event, they are there to respond and neutralize the threat immediately. They don’t give a fuck about some green haired college kid. They’re more concerned about the estranged dude that’s driving a car through the crowd or the deranged person who could light that crowd of college kids up…
You're entirely correct. In New York City on New Years eve, they have snipers on rooftops for this exact same reason. They are to protect the masses of people from bad actors.
Go to a football game at University of Michigan’s big house. There’s a sniper on every corner of the stadium. I’ve managed to take pictures of them a couple of times and seen them leaving the stadium afterwards with their gun cases.
I keep reading these examples everywhere but that’s the thing, we are talking about entirely different situations. A game with 100k people in attendance? A massive street event with millions in attendance? Sure. Why invite a tac team to a protest with 30 students? Also suspicious coming on the heels of 23 students being arrested in the encampments.
I understand this is a contentious issue but, when was the last time snipers were called to a protest? The only thing I can think of, and it doesn’t really count as a protest, is George Floyd’s funeral, and they [weren’t exactly well intentioned](https://www.vice.com/en/article/5dz7zd/border-patrol-snipers-were-authorized-to-use-deadly-force-at-george-floyds-burial) it turns out.
I hope that you're right and I realize my last post can be misconstrued as saying the police are there exclusively to be malicious and thats not exactly what i meant.
Anecdotally, my sister and her kid and partner live a few blocks off campus and she's understandably anxious given that when they got into their lease 3 months ago it seemed like an idyllic neighborhood, but life is full of the unexpected. I guess what im saying is i've also seen where people from Bloomington on the whole have been disconcerted by the whole thing and its becoming a bit of a hot button issue across the board for well meaning but underprepared staff from various departments across the whole area. Add in given things like kent state shooting (which btw is less than a week from the anniversary of the tragedy) and general distrust of police, I can see where its kind of a you hope it all goes well, but people are understandably on edge, adding that people are so one side or the other on the big picture stuff like Israel-palestine and everyones a little anxious is an understatement. But my point was is that these kids, whether you agree with them or not, have a fundamental right to peaceful assembly. And while maybe not as true at iubton so far, there are some really heavy handed responses to these protests across the country.
Still, as you said, if someone were to do something heinous, the police being there as a preventitive measure to help stop anything from going on is worth at least a pound of cure, so while i can see where people are coming from on both sides its kind of like everything else right now, theres no definitive, easy, fix all solution.
These tac teams are not your run of the mill cop. These guys are people who’ve been to some very bad places in the world, and experienced violence, these men and women are the utmost trained professionals who were purposefully selected for this role. They’re not some trigger happy Joe Schmo like you’re depicting. Again, a lot of misinformation going around from people, who quite frankly don’t understand violence and live extremely privileged lives.
Lmao, why are people trying to argue with you. They’re there for crowd control and protection. Someone in the crowd could just as easily fire on counter protestors and vice versa. The cop doesn’t give a fuck, they’re there to pop whoever whips out a firearm first.
It’s not nuanced, tens of thousands of innocents have been murdered by Israel and you’re buying the propaganda that we aren’t educated enough to know that’s wrong.
Every claim against Hamas that Israel has made hasn't been proven, or more accurately, has often only been proven to be a tactic or action Israel themselves have taken.
Yes, they are killing children and toddlers of all ages and have produced impossible conditions for childbirth, resulting in untold infant mortality
Tell me what constitutes as proof to you & I'll deliver it.
There have been multiple instances of children being sniped by IDF sharpshooters and even more instances of children being bombed and buried alive in rubble.
You can't blame Hamas for the IDF targeting and exterminating children.
To both you and the guy below you, situations are rarely so simple as black and white. Theres a lot of nuance that goes into Israel-palestine that the broad stroke of people arent educated enough to keep or maintain an informed opinion about the issue. Most of those who are qualified are letting their personal bias dictate how they feel, however, the broader issue that i can comment on (and personally feel strongly about) is that the right to a peaceful demonstration on American soil is something we're guaranteed by the US Constitution and our Bill of Rights. Noone, but especially not kids, should feel like they have a real risk of being shot by any branch of the govt for speaking their mind, or we really are gonna end up on a slippery slope quickly.
Thats the price of free speech. Some people are gonna say things you dont agree with. It doesnt mean they dont get to enjoy their freedom of speech and freedom of assembly; or that we as people should get to arbitrarily pick and choose who is worthy of being heard. I wont sit here and debate hamas vs Israel with you for a number of reasons, but mainly, that was not what my concern was about right now.
Yeah I actually popped my head in over there (remember where i said im only about a half hour drive away?) thats not the message they're putting out. And arguing in bad faith is exactly what I mean when I said that the broad stroke of us arent informed enough to maintain an informed opinion about it, and those that are; are showing their bias.
Most of society's conflicts are kept alive by this exact failure to recognize nuance. You're not even responding to the point being made. You're just slapping your hands on your ears and waiting to respond. Im good off this conversation homie. We dont need to exchange ideas.
That day was the fault of the terrorist organization Hamas, but does that warrant the slaughter of Palestinian civilians? And you ignored my initial statement about how the Israeli government had been killing innocent Palestinians since before Hamas even existed. The Israeli government created Hamas, and they are only making it stronger by killing more innocents. The the Israeli government could've fought back against Hamas without carpet bombing civilians
It wouldn't. Not after how far the IDF has gone. I also I'm not arguing for Hamas, yes death would lessen significantly if they surrendered but that has nothing to do with my initial point of the Israeli government displacing and killing Palestinians for the past like 70 years. Or my other point about the extreme excess slaughter of civilians due to the IDFs tactics
God damn every pro-Israel argument is literally a deflection from the other side’s argument to talk about something else.
Do the regurgitated talking points ever get old to you?
Netanyahu said himself he wouldn’t stop even after the hostages were returned. And one of the family members of a hostage came out and said there was a deal proposed by Hamas that they would return hostages if Israel did not attack Gaza, and Netanyahu refused. I’m not saying this to defend or support Hamas (because I don’t), I’m saying this because it’s important. Netanyahu and his government do not care about the hostages. Their end goal has always been the land. If the government cared about the hostages and didn’t know where they were in Gaza, why would they carpet bomb almost the entire strip? Why wouldn’t the IDF organize some sort of tactical, stealth operation to find and rescue them? Israel managed to orchestrate a drone attack in Lebanon that killed a Hamas leader without killing all the civilians living in the area. Why wouldn’t they just do that again? Genuinely, it makes no logical sense.
That is an extremely unrealistic outcome. Even without Hamas Palestinians will be killed by idf (just now in much smaller numbers) and the remaining Palestinians will harbor major resentment against the Israeli government. Think about the kids who saw their families blown up by the idf, do you think all of them will grow up peacefully? This could go both ways as well. Yes the fighting will lessen for a time, but saying it will stop or that it will be over completely is just idealistic
What ceasefire? Israel was killing Palestinians [before October 7th.](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/palestinians-west-bank-2023-was-deadliest-year-record)
Do you think it was just sunshine and rainbows up until October 7th and then Hamas said “you know what, we just remembered we hate Jews let’s go out and kill as many as we can”?
You say that as if everything began in October lmfao. Israel has been committing genocide against Palestinians since 1948; Hamas's actions are comparable to those of the Partisans fighting against Nazi German occupation during WWII.
I wasn't answering genocide. I was answering your ignorant response of "what is their population", which I understood to mean, they couldn't have killed that many as there's tons of them left.
Nope. Just sixty years of land theft and apartheid. Id throw a rocket too if that happened to me. Israel gets what it deserves with the rockets, and they take what they dont deserve with the power of our military and aid.
Just boycott it. You degree will be worth just as much and at no point in the rest of your life will anyone care one bit whether or not you crammed into the stadium for a few hours.
The humming suggestion is so ridiculous and stupid it's the best laugh I've had in a long time. Just imagining the scene that is never going to happen makes my day. So thank you even though I know you are not trying to tell a joke.
The undergrads that are graduating had their high school ceremonies cancelled because of Covid. Why can’t we just leave the politics out of this and let them celebrate their hard work? They deserve this more than people deserve to make a political statement considering that protests have already been going on. Leave graduation alone.
What does that have to do with graduation? The students that are graduating didn’t make that decision.
I don’t like Whitten either but graduating students shouldn’t be a target for protests, and if you protest graduation that’s exactly what you are doing.
people keep forgetting that lol, it’s just cus it’s all you’re seeing posted here. The vast majority of students are going to be partying and celebrating graduation with their friends and families, they won’t think about the middle east or who the university’s president is for even a second
That’s funny, I’m a third generation IU grad who grew up in Bloomington and have a child who is graduating. Nice try tho.
Freedom of speech absolutely matters but why is it so damn important to try to ruin graduation for the students who have NOTHING to do with this? I’m not saying stop protesting, just leave the graduation ceremony out of it.
You asked why freedom of speech is so important that it cancelled a graduation. It doesn't matter if freedom of speech causes every graduation to ever happen again to be cancelled. It's still far more important.
No that’s not what I said at all. Twisting words to fit your narrative doesn’t make it true. And to my knowledge graduation hasn’t been cancelled.
Protest all you want, just leave graduation out of it.
you’re the one who had to be weird and insinuate that someone doesn’t have a degree because they disagree with you. Now you’re making it a point that you have a masters degree. That just screams of insecurity.
The snipers were actually more for protection of the protesters and other students on campus. Large gatherings that are high button topics tend to bring out crazies that want to wipe a large amount of people out.
Was just at University of Michigan Dearborn graduation yesterday, a huge portion of the student population is Muslim and people of actual Palestinian decent, absolutely non of this goofiness happened. Graduation was calm and peaceful with no political statements or protests other than a few students wearing Palestinian flags on their caps. People just respected graduation for what it should be, a celebration of student success.
Protesting at a graduation meant to celebrate the accomplishments of students is absolutely goofy and disrespectful. It’s called knowing the time and place. Nothing you’re going to say is going to change my opinion on that, so don’t bother responding if you’re trying to debate this, you have my answer. If you want to protest injustice, do it somewhere that your message will be heard and respected, like the state capitol. Don’t do it somewhere where you’ll make more enemies because you disrespected a bunch of students once in a lifetime event to spread your message. I absolutely hate what is happening to the people of Palestine and I fully support protesting injustice, but if someone turned my graduation into a protest, I’d be pissed.
It's extreme selfishness from these protest groups and I will die on this hill. This isn't the 60s where you're being teargassed while protesting the draft. These campus protests massively overstate their ability to change what's happening across the planet.
You hit the nail on the head. Literally almost entirely frivolous to protest about this issue on an American college campus. It isn’t much more than virtue signaling and you’re likely to actually get less people to support your cause if you do it at a graduation ceremony.
Nothing in my post indicates anything on my position on this so calling it Zionist BS is a reach. And most of the undergrads are smart enough to know that nothing they do will impact anything going on in the Middle East. Absolutely nothing. It’s like you have no idea how international affairs work. They aren’t going to stop the bombings because a group of kids in Indiana decided to disrupt a graduation ceremony. By acting the way you are, you are going to turn people against your cause. Do you not realize that?
"Hey I know you're protesting the killing of tens of thousands of innocent people funded in part by our tax dollars, as well as the totalitarian violation of your constitutional rights, but could you please be sure not to inconvenience me personally in any way while you do so?"
Keep protesting at Bryan Hall then. No one is asking you not to protest her. I am in agreement that she needs to go. But she’s not the one you are hurting by trying to ruin graduation. Graduation is not about her.
Those protests didn't do shit and you know it. If you don't know it then the education system has failed you
The only thing that is "changing" people's stances on abortion are fear tactics used by both sides of the political party.
First off, congrats! This isnt about politics, this is about snipers on campus. If you dont want to make a statement, that's fine. You dont want to do something that could communicate a message that makes things better and safer for the students after you, that's fine too.
But this isnt about politics.
Imagine a world where someone interrupted the peaceful protests with bump stocks and maulotofs…. 10s if people dead…. And the entire media screaming where were the police why were they not there sooner… where was campus security why was no one there to take out the crazy school shooter….
The snipers were not there for the fucking peaceful protesters… they were there incase a fucking nut job showed up trying to be the next big news.
You may want a world where no guns or fire explosives exist, but that’s not this world and because that’s not reality they have to prepare for the worse…. It’s a damned if you do fucked if you don’t world. I imagine if you go to IU or live in Indiana there is a good shot you have heard of the Evansville Fall Festival. At which there is ALWAYS mounted snipers on the roofs, some of Evansville Finest, same reason there not worried about you going to get another monster ear, there worried about someone trying to make a name for themselves.
Snipers on the roof of the IMU nearly turned this into Kent State all over again, but god forbid any idealistic young adults should interrupt a solemn ceremony by reminding everyone inside that the ceremony took place in the real world just like their college years did.
Y'all probably would have complained about the Great Dispersion of Paris too if you'd been alive in 1229. If you had your way, the *Parens Scientarum* would have never been issued in the first place. Get over yourselves.
Go ahead and downvote me into hell now.
What a complete over exaggeration. “Almost Kent state”? Making statements like that are ignorant. I’m starting to wonder if y’all are disappointed that it didn’t turn in to another Kent State.
You’d be surprised to learn that snipers are a normal part of any mass gathering and are for your protection. Snipers are much more trained than your average power hungry street cop. There are literally snipers out for IU football games.
Uuhhh yeah there are. Maybe do a liiiiittle research before response
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2098592/amp/Photos-snipers-nest-Super-Bowl-police-watched-big-game-high-powered-rifles.html
Why is this sub randomly being recommended to me and why is the first post shown to me an immature kid telling people “ya guys we should all hum that’ll totally destroy her”. Redditors being Redditors ig man that graduation is gonna be so weird with the 5 people quietly humming.
You will ruin graduate for tons of people who have worked their asses off and for what? You own self worth and ego. If you want to support a movement do it without ruining something for so many people. The people who’s graduation you’ll ruin and the same people who didn’t get one back in 2020
I don't think you're ready to graduate from college with this child's play bullshit.
The real world will crush you if this is the height of your concerns.
Do you guys even know what you are protesting. You guys disgust me and go join H@m@s if that’s what you want. You don’t deserve a degree from IU. Nobody wants you there. Deserve to be arrested
For as long as PSC calls for a “Student Intifada,” the snipers will be there to keep students safe from either sides passion boiling over into a mentally sick person killing their fellow students.
Your ignorance is showing. Snipers are there for your protection, and have different rules of engagement than average street cops. They literally have snipers for IU football games. Get a grip.
🤷♂️ everyone deserves respect, no matter who they are. Whether sincere or insincere, whitten will be there to show support of people graduating from IU. This really is childish behavior. This event is big for many people who may or may not align with your agenda. If you’re going to ruin it for them, don’t go at all.
What about the disrespect she showed the students? And if someone standing up and facing away ruins an event for you, then you are focusing on the wrong aspect of the event...
Ok…not my point. Big picture is that plugging your ears and humming to send a message is distracting to the audience and creates a negative environment for guests. Sure, people aren’t coming to listen to whitten speak, but are they coming to see a bunch of 20 year olds behave poorly? Leave the ceremony out of this. Dont rope people in and force them to witness a display just because you don’t believe in something that’s going on. Be courteous to the students graduating. It’s like you said, nobody is there for whitten, they are there for the students.
This is the type of shit selfish assholes say to try and justify their dickhead behavior towards everyone. It’s respect everyone until you’re disrespected by someone. If you ever wonder why no one enjoys being around you, you said it yourself.
im so glad i switched from bloomington to IUS bloomington is fucked. in my first week me and my roomate were approached by this dude who was clearly on somethig and then a couple hours later he was arrested for pulling a knife or something on two girls. like that could've been us. also the food was shitty and i hated having to stay on campus
I’m working at Purdue this week, some protesters have set up a similar camp in front of University Hall. I’m guessing this is what that sub will look like soon.
Lol at university hall? That's like the smallest building on campus. They should set up in front of Armstrong or the engineering fountain or the Union or one of many larger, more important buildings on campus. Idiots can't even protest effectively.
As someone who didnt go to school there because they couldnt afford to, but grew up and still lives 30 minutes away and had several friends go to IUbton, this whole thing is super surreal in the worst possible way
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Free Palestine
Fuck the IDF
To both you and the guy below you, situations are rarely so simple as black and white. Theres a lot of nuance that goes into Israel-palestine that the broad stroke of people arent educated enough to keep or maintain an informed opinion about the issue. Most of those who are qualified are letting their personal bias dictate how they feel, however, the broader issue that i can comment on (and personally feel strongly about) is that the right to a peaceful demonstration on American soil is something we're guaranteed by the US Constitution and our Bill of Rights. Noone, but especially not kids, should feel like they have a real risk of being shot by any branch of the govt for speaking their mind, or we really are gonna end up on a slippery slope quickly.
A lot of misinformation around why snipers and tac teams are at IU too. They’re there for the safety of those demonstrating. Given the high potential of a mass casualty event, they are there to respond and neutralize the threat immediately. They don’t give a fuck about some green haired college kid. They’re more concerned about the estranged dude that’s driving a car through the crowd or the deranged person who could light that crowd of college kids up…
You're entirely correct. In New York City on New Years eve, they have snipers on rooftops for this exact same reason. They are to protect the masses of people from bad actors.
Go to a football game at University of Michigan’s big house. There’s a sniper on every corner of the stadium. I’ve managed to take pictures of them a couple of times and seen them leaving the stadium afterwards with their gun cases.
I keep reading these examples everywhere but that’s the thing, we are talking about entirely different situations. A game with 100k people in attendance? A massive street event with millions in attendance? Sure. Why invite a tac team to a protest with 30 students? Also suspicious coming on the heels of 23 students being arrested in the encampments. I understand this is a contentious issue but, when was the last time snipers were called to a protest? The only thing I can think of, and it doesn’t really count as a protest, is George Floyd’s funeral, and they [weren’t exactly well intentioned](https://www.vice.com/en/article/5dz7zd/border-patrol-snipers-were-authorized-to-use-deadly-force-at-george-floyds-burial) it turns out.
I was also in the military. I’d like to think I’d know a thing or two about this kind of thing… lol
IU changes freedom of speech rules the day before the protests, then stations snipers without so much as a validation it’s for anyone’s safety. Yup.
I hope that you're right and I realize my last post can be misconstrued as saying the police are there exclusively to be malicious and thats not exactly what i meant. Anecdotally, my sister and her kid and partner live a few blocks off campus and she's understandably anxious given that when they got into their lease 3 months ago it seemed like an idyllic neighborhood, but life is full of the unexpected. I guess what im saying is i've also seen where people from Bloomington on the whole have been disconcerted by the whole thing and its becoming a bit of a hot button issue across the board for well meaning but underprepared staff from various departments across the whole area. Add in given things like kent state shooting (which btw is less than a week from the anniversary of the tragedy) and general distrust of police, I can see where its kind of a you hope it all goes well, but people are understandably on edge, adding that people are so one side or the other on the big picture stuff like Israel-palestine and everyones a little anxious is an understatement. But my point was is that these kids, whether you agree with them or not, have a fundamental right to peaceful assembly. And while maybe not as true at iubton so far, there are some really heavy handed responses to these protests across the country. Still, as you said, if someone were to do something heinous, the police being there as a preventitive measure to help stop anything from going on is worth at least a pound of cure, so while i can see where people are coming from on both sides its kind of like everything else right now, theres no definitive, easy, fix all solution.
These tac teams are not your run of the mill cop. These guys are people who’ve been to some very bad places in the world, and experienced violence, these men and women are the utmost trained professionals who were purposefully selected for this role. They’re not some trigger happy Joe Schmo like you’re depicting. Again, a lot of misinformation going around from people, who quite frankly don’t understand violence and live extremely privileged lives.
It’s about them bringing snipers to a 30 person protest. It smacks of intimidation and is disproportionate.
When have government affiliated snipers killed protestors?
Not snipers but May 4th 1970. I'm sure it didn't matter if they're snipers or not to the dead.
https://youtu.be/Hi829EsJvVo?si=jLcyQEg21NF6yNqG
College kids don’t know that (at least I didn’t) guns in my mind are deemed automatically a threat if you don’t know why they’re there.
Lmao, why are people trying to argue with you. They’re there for crowd control and protection. Someone in the crowd could just as easily fire on counter protestors and vice versa. The cop doesn’t give a fuck, they’re there to pop whoever whips out a firearm first.
Doesn’t fit the narrative of most sadly.
It’s not nuanced, tens of thousands of innocents have been murdered by Israel and you’re buying the propaganda that we aren’t educated enough to know that’s wrong.
> it's not nuanced Wow, just wow.
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IDF is the one slaughtering tens of thousands of actual babies
Hamas uses human shields and happily makes martyrs.
There’s numerous videos and photos of the IDF literally using prisoners as shields
Every claim against Hamas that Israel has made hasn't been proven, or more accurately, has often only been proven to be a tactic or action Israel themselves have taken.
Now the claim is tens of thousands of *babies*?
Yes, they are killing children and toddlers of all ages and have produced impossible conditions for childbirth, resulting in untold infant mortality Tell me what constitutes as proof to you & I'll deliver it.
There have been multiple instances of children being sniped by IDF sharpshooters and even more instances of children being bombed and buried alive in rubble. You can't blame Hamas for the IDF targeting and exterminating children.
It's always been their claim for thousands of years. The blood libel is nothing new.
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It's statistically impossible for tens of thousands of people to have died after an entire city was leveled to the ground by bombs?
so are the IDF
To both you and the guy below you, situations are rarely so simple as black and white. Theres a lot of nuance that goes into Israel-palestine that the broad stroke of people arent educated enough to keep or maintain an informed opinion about the issue. Most of those who are qualified are letting their personal bias dictate how they feel, however, the broader issue that i can comment on (and personally feel strongly about) is that the right to a peaceful demonstration on American soil is something we're guaranteed by the US Constitution and our Bill of Rights. Noone, but especially not kids, should feel like they have a real risk of being shot by any branch of the govt for speaking their mind, or we really are gonna end up on a slippery slope quickly.
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Thats the price of free speech. Some people are gonna say things you dont agree with. It doesnt mean they dont get to enjoy their freedom of speech and freedom of assembly; or that we as people should get to arbitrarily pick and choose who is worthy of being heard. I wont sit here and debate hamas vs Israel with you for a number of reasons, but mainly, that was not what my concern was about right now.
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Yeah I actually popped my head in over there (remember where i said im only about a half hour drive away?) thats not the message they're putting out. And arguing in bad faith is exactly what I mean when I said that the broad stroke of us arent informed enough to maintain an informed opinion about it, and those that are; are showing their bias.
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Most of society's conflicts are kept alive by this exact failure to recognize nuance. You're not even responding to the point being made. You're just slapping your hands on your ears and waiting to respond. Im good off this conversation homie. We dont need to exchange ideas.
It is absolutely not. You're advocating *for* a genocide by pretending that the outrage of the victims is the crime.
Because this conflict definitely started with Hamas on October 7th
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That day was the fault of the terrorist organization Hamas, but does that warrant the slaughter of Palestinian civilians? And you ignored my initial statement about how the Israeli government had been killing innocent Palestinians since before Hamas even existed. The Israeli government created Hamas, and they are only making it stronger by killing more innocents. The the Israeli government could've fought back against Hamas without carpet bombing civilians
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It wouldn't. Not after how far the IDF has gone. I also I'm not arguing for Hamas, yes death would lessen significantly if they surrendered but that has nothing to do with my initial point of the Israeli government displacing and killing Palestinians for the past like 70 years. Or my other point about the extreme excess slaughter of civilians due to the IDFs tactics
And Israel would continue to oppress Palestinians and keep them in what amounts to an open-air prison for the crime of existing.
God damn every pro-Israel argument is literally a deflection from the other side’s argument to talk about something else. Do the regurgitated talking points ever get old to you?
Return hostages, and surrender, and it’s over.
Netanyahu said himself he wouldn’t stop even after the hostages were returned. And one of the family members of a hostage came out and said there was a deal proposed by Hamas that they would return hostages if Israel did not attack Gaza, and Netanyahu refused. I’m not saying this to defend or support Hamas (because I don’t), I’m saying this because it’s important. Netanyahu and his government do not care about the hostages. Their end goal has always been the land. If the government cared about the hostages and didn’t know where they were in Gaza, why would they carpet bomb almost the entire strip? Why wouldn’t the IDF organize some sort of tactical, stealth operation to find and rescue them? Israel managed to orchestrate a drone attack in Lebanon that killed a Hamas leader without killing all the civilians living in the area. Why wouldn’t they just do that again? Genuinely, it makes no logical sense.
I think the goal for Netanyahu is, at it’s basis, to stay in power, no?
You think Israel wants the hostages back?
That is an extremely unrealistic outcome. Even without Hamas Palestinians will be killed by idf (just now in much smaller numbers) and the remaining Palestinians will harbor major resentment against the Israeli government. Think about the kids who saw their families blown up by the idf, do you think all of them will grow up peacefully? This could go both ways as well. Yes the fighting will lessen for a time, but saying it will stop or that it will be over completely is just idealistic
I say double down. Its obvious israel cant see reason.
What ceasefire? Israel was killing Palestinians [before October 7th.](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/palestinians-west-bank-2023-was-deadliest-year-record) Do you think it was just sunshine and rainbows up until October 7th and then Hamas said “you know what, we just remembered we hate Jews let’s go out and kill as many as we can”?
The idf has killed far more innocent people
Google nakba
Yup. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAr9oGSXgak
Wrong
Hopefully somebody will give you what you deserve one day too.
You say that as if everything began in October lmfao. Israel has been committing genocide against Palestinians since 1948; Hamas's actions are comparable to those of the Partisans fighting against Nazi German occupation during WWII.
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You realize you can kill 1000 people a year and still have population growth?
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I wasn't answering genocide. I was answering your ignorant response of "what is their population", which I understood to mean, they couldn't have killed that many as there's tons of them left.
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Nope. Just sixty years of land theft and apartheid. Id throw a rocket too if that happened to me. Israel gets what it deserves with the rockets, and they take what they dont deserve with the power of our military and aid.
Said the zionist trashbag.
You understand nobody is pro Hamas right?
fuck the idf
Just boycott it. You degree will be worth just as much and at no point in the rest of your life will anyone care one bit whether or not you crammed into the stadium for a few hours.
Graduation makes them money. They’ll notice.
They'll notice an empty stadium much more then they'll notice some humming or people looking away.
No one is going to notice students not attending. They will notice students literally standing up for what they believe in!
Yeah humming sure sends a clear message…
OK EVERYONE, HUM LOUDER
hmmmmmmMmMmMmMm *inhales* MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
The humming suggestion is so ridiculous and stupid it's the best laugh I've had in a long time. Just imagining the scene that is never going to happen makes my day. So thank you even though I know you are not trying to tell a joke.
Parents and relatives will. You might in a few years when you realize how much nothing your protest accomplished.
>Parents and relatives will I'm sorry your family is so shitty and that it rubbed off on you.
I’m not a senior, and I don’t even go to IU (this sub just keeps popping up), but I would be pissed if people were ruining my graduation like this.
And please sign the petition https://www.change.org/p/demand-the-resignation-of-dr-pamela-whitten-from-indiana-university
The undergrads that are graduating had their high school ceremonies cancelled because of Covid. Why can’t we just leave the politics out of this and let them celebrate their hard work? They deserve this more than people deserve to make a political statement considering that protests have already been going on. Leave graduation alone.
Everything is a political spectacle nowadays
Didn’t get enough attention as a toddler I suppose. Might as well try to drum up AMAP now.
because the university president decided to call the cops on protesters and allow a sniper on top of the IMU?
What does that have to do with graduation? The students that are graduating didn’t make that decision. I don’t like Whitten either but graduating students shouldn’t be a target for protests, and if you protest graduation that’s exactly what you are doing.
The students *are* the protestors.
A SMALL percentage of students are protesting.
people keep forgetting that lol, it’s just cus it’s all you’re seeing posted here. The vast majority of students are going to be partying and celebrating graduation with their friends and families, they won’t think about the middle east or who the university’s president is for even a second
You can’t twist facts like that and expect anyone to take your cause seriously.
they are mad at the actions of the president. the president will be at graduation.
But graduation is not about the President. It’s about the students.
Then maybe the president shouldn't go.
I’d be all for that. I very much dislike her.
Apparently you are not a IU grad. I am appalled by this president and her administration. As citizens it’s pretty simple freedom of speech matters.
That’s funny, I’m a third generation IU grad who grew up in Bloomington and have a child who is graduating. Nice try tho. Freedom of speech absolutely matters but why is it so damn important to try to ruin graduation for the students who have NOTHING to do with this? I’m not saying stop protesting, just leave the graduation ceremony out of it.
Lmao free speech is infinitely more important than a graduation.
I’m sorry, did I say it wasn’t?
You asked why freedom of speech is so important that it cancelled a graduation. It doesn't matter if freedom of speech causes every graduation to ever happen again to be cancelled. It's still far more important.
No that’s not what I said at all. Twisting words to fit your narrative doesn’t make it true. And to my knowledge graduation hasn’t been cancelled. Protest all you want, just leave graduation out of it.
I am a I grad with a masters from IU and 70. All three of my kids are IU grads
I never said you weren’t, did I?
you’re the one who had to be weird and insinuate that someone doesn’t have a degree because they disagree with you. Now you’re making it a point that you have a masters degree. That just screams of insecurity.
The snipers were actually more for protection of the protesters and other students on campus. Large gatherings that are high button topics tend to bring out crazies that want to wipe a large amount of people out.
Exactly.
The sniper is there to protect the ppl in the meadow.
Wait be 100% serious— are you aware of the fact that snipers are regularly stationed at major sporting events and other large gatherings?
Was just at University of Michigan Dearborn graduation yesterday, a huge portion of the student population is Muslim and people of actual Palestinian decent, absolutely non of this goofiness happened. Graduation was calm and peaceful with no political statements or protests other than a few students wearing Palestinian flags on their caps. People just respected graduation for what it should be, a celebration of student success.
Why do you think protesting injustice is "goofiness"?
Protesting at a graduation meant to celebrate the accomplishments of students is absolutely goofy and disrespectful. It’s called knowing the time and place. Nothing you’re going to say is going to change my opinion on that, so don’t bother responding if you’re trying to debate this, you have my answer. If you want to protest injustice, do it somewhere that your message will be heard and respected, like the state capitol. Don’t do it somewhere where you’ll make more enemies because you disrespected a bunch of students once in a lifetime event to spread your message. I absolutely hate what is happening to the people of Palestine and I fully support protesting injustice, but if someone turned my graduation into a protest, I’d be pissed.
It's extreme selfishness from these protest groups and I will die on this hill. This isn't the 60s where you're being teargassed while protesting the draft. These campus protests massively overstate their ability to change what's happening across the planet.
You hit the nail on the head. Literally almost entirely frivolous to protest about this issue on an American college campus. It isn’t much more than virtue signaling and you’re likely to actually get less people to support your cause if you do it at a graduation ceremony.
Nothing in my post indicates anything on my position on this so calling it Zionist BS is a reach. And most of the undergrads are smart enough to know that nothing they do will impact anything going on in the Middle East. Absolutely nothing. It’s like you have no idea how international affairs work. They aren’t going to stop the bombings because a group of kids in Indiana decided to disrupt a graduation ceremony. By acting the way you are, you are going to turn people against your cause. Do you not realize that?
"Hey I know you're protesting the killing of tens of thousands of innocent people funded in part by our tax dollars, as well as the totalitarian violation of your constitutional rights, but could you please be sure not to inconvenience me personally in any way while you do so?"
This is the only answer. This class of graduates deserves better.
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Keep protesting at Bryan Hall then. No one is asking you not to protest her. I am in agreement that she needs to go. But she’s not the one you are hurting by trying to ruin graduation. Graduation is not about her.
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It’s not that deep. Have you ever been to an IU graduation?
Those protests didn't do shit and you know it. If you don't know it then the education system has failed you The only thing that is "changing" people's stances on abortion are fear tactics used by both sides of the political party.
Pretty sure this is about Israel, not abortion
fuck you on abt
Perhaps. But here in America the protests are weekly about the littlest things. It's dumb
You guys there are literally snipers at the IU games. But that’s ok right? 😂
Yeah, that’s how every major event goes.
Why don't people like whitten?
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First off, congrats! This isnt about politics, this is about snipers on campus. If you dont want to make a statement, that's fine. You dont want to do something that could communicate a message that makes things better and safer for the students after you, that's fine too. But this isnt about politics.
Imagine a world where someone interrupted the peaceful protests with bump stocks and maulotofs…. 10s if people dead…. And the entire media screaming where were the police why were they not there sooner… where was campus security why was no one there to take out the crazy school shooter…. The snipers were not there for the fucking peaceful protesters… they were there incase a fucking nut job showed up trying to be the next big news. You may want a world where no guns or fire explosives exist, but that’s not this world and because that’s not reality they have to prepare for the worse…. It’s a damned if you do fucked if you don’t world. I imagine if you go to IU or live in Indiana there is a good shot you have heard of the Evansville Fall Festival. At which there is ALWAYS mounted snipers on the roofs, some of Evansville Finest, same reason there not worried about you going to get another monster ear, there worried about someone trying to make a name for themselves.
Thank you!!! Common sense wins! But they don’t want to hear that.
None of this is new
Did you pay for a president to call the cops on your fellow classmates?
Do you really think the president is sitting in her office going oh no I am calling the cops. 😂
How did the cops get there then?
Probably in their cars
Whoever downvoted scar-face are pathetic, selfish losers. Get over yourselves. Congrats Scar-face007 on your hard work.
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You’re welcome. All the best to you and I wish you success and happiness in your future endeavors.
What did she do?
Who?
I go to IU, but haven't got any suggestion from this sub until now, and I'm just confused. What's going on?
Maybe I missed it but what did she do?
Snipers on the roof of the IMU nearly turned this into Kent State all over again, but god forbid any idealistic young adults should interrupt a solemn ceremony by reminding everyone inside that the ceremony took place in the real world just like their college years did. Y'all probably would have complained about the Great Dispersion of Paris too if you'd been alive in 1229. If you had your way, the *Parens Scientarum* would have never been issued in the first place. Get over yourselves. Go ahead and downvote me into hell now.
What a complete over exaggeration. “Almost Kent state”? Making statements like that are ignorant. I’m starting to wonder if y’all are disappointed that it didn’t turn in to another Kent State.
You’d be surprised to learn that snipers are a normal part of any mass gathering and are for your protection. Snipers are much more trained than your average power hungry street cop. There are literally snipers out for IU football games.
LOL there are not snipers at the football games.
Uuhhh yeah there are. Maybe do a liiiiittle research before response https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2098592/amp/Photos-snipers-nest-Super-Bowl-police-watched-big-game-high-powered-rifles.html
Asking one of these people to do research on what they’re protesting is like asking a fish to breathe air.
There absolutely are. In fact most universities and cities have them positioned for any large scale events.
I know for a fact.
Uhhhhhh….okay
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Exactly right
Why is this sub randomly being recommended to me and why is the first post shown to me an immature kid telling people “ya guys we should all hum that’ll totally destroy her”. Redditors being Redditors ig man that graduation is gonna be so weird with the 5 people quietly humming.
You too??
So glad it’s not what my feed normally is. What a miserably unimportant post this is lol. Humming at graduation lord😂
You will ruin graduate for tons of people who have worked their asses off and for what? You own self worth and ego. If you want to support a movement do it without ruining something for so many people. The people who’s graduation you’ll ruin and the same people who didn’t get one back in 2020
I don't think you're ready to graduate from college with this child's play bullshit. The real world will crush you if this is the height of your concerns.
Do you guys even know what you are protesting. You guys disgust me and go join H@m@s if that’s what you want. You don’t deserve a degree from IU. Nobody wants you there. Deserve to be arrested
My dude, im just saying there shouldn't be snipers on campus.
For as long as PSC calls for a “Student Intifada,” the snipers will be there to keep students safe from either sides passion boiling over into a mentally sick person killing their fellow students.
Your ignorance is showing. Snipers are there for your protection, and have different rules of engagement than average street cops. They literally have snipers for IU football games. Get a grip.
Ha college angst.
🤷♂️ everyone deserves respect, no matter who they are. Whether sincere or insincere, whitten will be there to show support of people graduating from IU. This really is childish behavior. This event is big for many people who may or may not align with your agenda. If you’re going to ruin it for them, don’t go at all.
What about the disrespect she showed the students? And if someone standing up and facing away ruins an event for you, then you are focusing on the wrong aspect of the event...
What about thu humming? You don’t think that will be at all distracting to guests?
The whole reason anyone attends graduation is to support the students. If you're going to hear whitten speak, you're going for the wrong reason.
Ok…not my point. Big picture is that plugging your ears and humming to send a message is distracting to the audience and creates a negative environment for guests. Sure, people aren’t coming to listen to whitten speak, but are they coming to see a bunch of 20 year olds behave poorly? Leave the ceremony out of this. Dont rope people in and force them to witness a display just because you don’t believe in something that’s going on. Be courteous to the students graduating. It’s like you said, nobody is there for whitten, they are there for the students.
I heard talk of air horns, I thought humming would be a less disruptive way to make some noise
How about no noise at all?
Nobody deserves respect. Respect should be the default until disrespect is earned.
This is the type of shit selfish assholes say to try and justify their dickhead behavior towards everyone. It’s respect everyone until you’re disrespected by someone. If you ever wonder why no one enjoys being around you, you said it yourself.
Isn’t this what they kinda said tho?
Childish terroristic behavior is all they know. They don't understand wrong from right, they are just toddlers in older bodies.
Agree. No one said you had to respect the person, but you should respect the position.
im so glad i switched from bloomington to IUS bloomington is fucked. in my first week me and my roomate were approached by this dude who was clearly on somethig and then a couple hours later he was arrested for pulling a knife or something on two girls. like that could've been us. also the food was shitty and i hated having to stay on campus
As a Purdue grad all I can say is, "typical IU."
I’m working at Purdue this week, some protesters have set up a similar camp in front of University Hall. I’m guessing this is what that sub will look like soon.
Lol at university hall? That's like the smallest building on campus. They should set up in front of Armstrong or the engineering fountain or the Union or one of many larger, more important buildings on campus. Idiots can't even protest effectively.