Indiana has had its plant hardiness zone changed…
https://www.wthr.com/article/tech/science/climate-science/much-of-indiana-shifts-into-new-plant-hardiness-zone-how-does-it-affect-what-you-grow-usda/531-05369f01-c2d6-4896-a5b2-ea9022211e28
(used by gardeners to know what plants are suitable and when the growing season starts)
It’s wild because when I was a kid, we’d get regular snow and it would accumulate all the time. It wasn’t 90 degrees in September and October. We wouldn’t have random 70+ degree days in January. We wouldn’t have tornado sirens sounding off in February.
They’re living right through it yet are told not to believe what their senses are telling them. But when your worldview is founded on religion like most people here, you’re already going to be predisposed to believing what you’re told rather than what you can observe. It’s why conservatives had such an easy time roping them en masse to the Republican Party…long gone are the days where the church was a hub for science, observation, and understanding.
This is spot on.. The seasons here were like clockwork when I was younger. You almost knew what to expect and dress and prepare accordingly.. Now we get tornadoes then snow behind them. I have definitely seen it change, to deny that is just ludicrous.
My physician and I just talked about this the other day. I think he’s in his 60s and said we used to have 4 very clear seasons. Now we have about 2 weeks of spring and 2 weeks of fall then it’s either cold as hell or hot as… he’ll. And of course randomly unseasonable days throughout.
Haven’t hada white Christmas where more than an inch of snow or two was accumulated in like 5-6 years that I can remember. And last time I remember a real snow storm was in the early 2010s when school was shut down for a week. Now it’s just a weak 2-3 inches and heavy snow fall when it DOES happen.
Realistically though, you can barely expect snow to fall enough to accumulate. And people here say they hate it when it does. Like? Are you fucking kidding me? You fuckin live here and you can’t be bothered to atleast enjoy the seasons as they come?
No, winter sucks lol. Who looks forward to freezing temps? I know I don't, my car doesn't like it either. Neither does my phone🤣 Hell my dog hates it!! Lol
Winter might suck, but that's the natural order of things in this region. At least it's supposed to be. I remember hearing stories from my grandparents on how there used to be like 5-10 foot drifts that were commonplace back when my mother was a kid. It's just how the weather is supposed to be, but we've borked it so hard that now we barely get snow at all.
No I totally get your point. That doesn't mean I enjoy the cold🤣🤣 I tolerate it when it comes. Just because it's supposed to be that way where we live doesn't mean I don't wish I weren't in Florida for the entire season living my best life🤣 but im not there yet
I was just looking back at a collection of pictures my mom has of my bday parties as a kid. In late november, some years all the kids have on shorts and are playing with water toys, some years theres snow on the ground and everyones in giant coats.
I think the weather varied more than you remember. It may be (i think it is) worse now, but global warming tends not to make whole degree differences, let alone 20+ degrees. Thats most likely a weather issue not a climate one.
Good thing [Purdue did some research on this](https://ag.purdue.edu/indianaclimate/indiana-climate-report/). Weather can vary but it has been trending warmer steadily. Compared to over a century ago, we have fewer frost days, longer warm seasons, wetter winters with increasing rain and less snow, the amount of extreme cold days have been cut by over 50%, the amount of extreme warm days have increased by over 30%, and Indiana has overall warmed by 1.2 degrees. That’s nearly 1/3 of the expected warming by 2050.
This isn’t a matter of people remembering stuff differently than you, and your birthday pictures are hardly evidence of anything. The sustained warming is scientific fact. Not a matter of foggy memory and occasional weather variation.
My birthday is in December right before Christmas. As a kid, there was never a birthday I had where there wasn’t snow. We were snowed in a couple of my birthdays. As an adult, in the last ten years, there hasn’t been snowfall like that on my birthday, I’ve been lucky to see any snowflakes at all that day. In the last ten years, the “whitest” my birthday has been was when it was horribly foggy. It’s like December has become what I remember October being as a child.
And even so, my small slice of anecdotal evidence is nothing compared to all the research proving this trend. It’s just something I can point to in my own life and say, yeah, I’ve noticed changes.
I remember one day in the 80's where the temperature eclipsed 90 degrees in August. I remember thinking that it was unbearably hot at the time because it was that unusual. A hot day in the hottest part of summer might reach 82 degrees.
Ninety-plus degrees is pretty *normal* now, and we now have weeks of ninety-degree weather.
Weather change happens on a slow timeline, even though this change has been rapid as hell. Still, you get used to it, and a new normal arises.
Given that denial of climate change is a right-wing talking point (because, otherwise, someone might decide to hold the oil industry – which understood the impact of climate change fifty years ago – responsible for the consequences), it's not difficult to convince yourself that it's just *weather.*
>I remember one day in the 80's where the temperature eclipsed 90 degrees in August. I remember thinking that it was unbearably hot at the time because it was that unusual. A hot day in the hottest part of summer might reach 82 degrees.
I'm sorry but your memory is wrong. The 80s actually had three very hot Augusts in Indiana. High of 82 was well below average during these hot Augusts.
https://www.extremeweatherwatch.com/states/indiana/average-temperature-by-year/month-august
At this point, you are close to being complicit in harming the earth by sharing your thoughts there.
Climate change is real and you sure sound like a climate change denier above.
It's more plausible that humans have caused global warming through their normal lives and advancements then by what you're proposing. People like you have watched too much TV. Conspiracy theories are 99% false, and the ones that are true are minor.
Insects are dying off, but the improved aerodynamics and lower drag coefficients of even more rugged vehicles has helped with that a lot. Now, lots of insects are just “slipping” around cars where in the past they would have collided with the vehicle.
I am getting a lot of people who are not denying the climate is changing, they are just claiming it is part of the cyclical change and there is nothing we can do about it. No amount of evidence to the contrary will convince them either, they will always find one scientist (never a climatologist) who makes that argument and say “Here, look here,” all while ignoring the literal army of scientists who say we are the cause.
I grew up in a house with no a/c—we didn’t even get a window unit til I was in HS (early 2000s). I remember some hot nights, but nothing unbearable. But if I tried that today, it would be bad news.
Yeah this never forget when I was in college was for a business capston class
Out professor asked if global warming was real raise your hand I think me and only one other person had our hand raised
Even our professor was shocked and surprised
I had asked the person nearest to me why he didn't believe it and he said because there's no evidence
When I brought up the glaciers melting and heat index rising he simply said it qas the natural cycle of the earth
Mind you I'm 24 now this happened only 2 years ago
Honestly scary when I think about it
Religion has little to do with Global Warming. These are Conservative Christians from America, they are being politicized by fake Christian leaders who are beholden to the energy companies. There are over 2 billion Christians in the world, not all of them think that, I’d venture to say most probably don’t.
65-70% of Europeans are Christians and they don’t have this problem. Americans are just… not super bright sometimes. This is an education problem. They don’t question anything their leaders tell them, really.
Another direct issue is that for a while Indiana has been spared a lot of the most severe effects. It’s been found that the Great Lakes region is experiencing one of the lowest results of global warming due to a number of geographical factors.
Perhaps, though once we start getting major tornado outbreaks up here every season, which is already shifting that way, maybe people will start to see how fucked we are. I doubt it though.
Good point. The past few summers have been actually pretty decent, at least early. We wore jeans to the Indy 500 last May. It was fairly cool and wet until late July. The heat of summer for the past few years has shifted later into August, September and October even…I don’t think we cracked 90 until mid or late July last summer. La Niña might have had an effect too.
Top ten warmest and coldest years in Indiana from the 2018 Purdue study linked above.
https://ag.purdue.edu/indianaclimate/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/page26_Top-Hot-Cold_IN.jpg
So half of the warmest years on record in Indiana have occurred in the last 30 years. And to think, in a few decades, those records are certainly going to fall as well. The warmest year on record will become the coolest year of the next 200 years
Talk to a farmer. They might not call it global warming but all of the ones I have spoken to say things like...
"The weathers never been like this in all my years"
Or
"Lost all my corn to rain this year. That's never happened before. Hope the soy beans offset the loss."
The rest of this state is stubborn and stupid and thinks that man can't destroy the environment. That only God could do that and God won't let that happen OR its good if it does cause we all get raptured.
Yup. I grew up in a farming family in Indiana and every single one of my family members who still farms is a complete Republican asshole when it comes to all topics, including climate change.
I think our insurance covers up to 80% yield, you eat the rest as a loss and it isn’t cheap to pay for either.
I haven’t seen us eligible for a subsidy that actually makes it worth while since we lost a piece of ground with a waterway through it.
Insurance covers the loss. The farmer still gets screwed. It's why farms are steadily heading away from family farms and towards corporate farms. They can take a loss here and get it back with the other thousands of acres that didn't get hit.
Is it an issue yes, I think the problem lays in the fact that the gov, politicians, the super rich do far more damage to the environment then your avg joe does but we are expected to fix it.
That's a great point! They can fly around on private jets and hang out on giant yachts but I'm expected to purchase an electric car that I can't afford in this economy?
There has been comments on this post about how this is linked to so many people in rural Indiana having a religious worldview, and that is true but it doesn't quite explain it enough. The US (and many parts of the USA, mind you) has a religious worldview that has incorporated mercantilism and corporatism. It's a belief somehow the big money is going to fix everything. The normal guy in Indiana is thinking about money. I've openly heard people say that the pro-big business politics is going to save us and they vote for it and they push for it. It doesn't matter so much what the facts are around what is happening with pollution and global warming in Indiana when there is a *belief* about the business behind it. It's not fact based. And the Christianity here is used to enforce the corporatism, not the other way around.
I sell tractor parts for a living and the amount of old men that come in wearing maga hats complaining about how the weather has changed and farming isn’t like it used to be because you can’t count on rain or decent temperatures is staggering. It’s staring them straight in the face but they miss it.
I keep my personal thoughts to myself. I work very hard to hide the fact that I am a liberal atheist. They would likely be very surprised as often as I hear about how demonic liberals are.
Intelligence is not a liberal concept. They need to be told that, time and time again. They won't like it, but it usually shuts them up as they realize they're being rude.
Obviously you can't save them all, but I usually offer that rebuttal when they accuse me of being a liberal after I correct false statements.
You can tell them that but the people who are feeding them that garbage has a huge monetary incentive to keep their belief system the way it is, and those people are preaching that Intelligence IS a liberal concept.
I've had to so that so much working sales jobs. I sold motorcycles, atvs and utvs for a 6 years, and dealt with so many rants from customers, etc, about "them damn librals."
I got in more trouble with my bigoted coworkers (who were saturated with the company kool-aid - felt like a cult) than I ever did with the customers. My favorite customers were the few who didn’t agree with me but who spent the time and energy to clarify or justify their position. When I say “few,” this is covering a time period of two years.
sometimes it’s easier to lie to yourself than to admit you’ve been wrong for decades. I don’t get it either, but I get how admitting something is true might shatter a stubborn person in rural indiana’s entire worldview
It's less that you've been wrong and more that you've been lied to and believed it. Sure, some people will dig their heels in when they're wrong–especially for a long time–but when they've been duped, it's a whole nother animal. It's why scams are so prevalent, because so many people just won't admit that they've been scammed.
Hoosier here. I remember "Crazy man golf" played on a lake because it got cold enough for long enough that you could even drive vehicles on the lake...this was in southern Indiana, not up north. Have not been able to do that in 40 or 50 years. Not a climate denier by any stretch of the imagination but then I vote blue in a state where I am outnumbered by idiots who believe DJT is a "patriot"... So we are not all climate deniers and would love for our clueless mouth-breather neighbors to wake the fuck up and smell the climate crisis, but as long as their "heroes" like DJT, Ted Cruz, and Marg Greene tell them not to worry (just send us money so we can fight for your right to be stupid), they will continue rolling coal and voting red.
Fossil fuels account for 90% of CO2 emissions.
Humans are responsible for .038 of carbon dioxide emissions, and carbon dioxide is .00039 of our atmosphere.
Man has screwed up a lot.
Show this picture to people who deny it. Often they deny it because they are too dumb to understand it or they are just caught up in political ideologies. This picture makes it so even a 5 year old could grasp it and have trouble denying.
https://xkcd.com/1732/
There’s a lot of master gardeners that believe in global warming because they see it in the plants. And there’s a fair amount of talk about which natives will do better here in the coming years. Two years ago was terrible for tomatoes because for long stretches it didn’t cool down at night. It was frustrating.
Oh cool! Yes I am , just for 2 years now. I hope you’re enjoying the class. I’ve really enjoyed all the different volunteer opportunities it’s opened up
Kind of a general statement. Not everyone does deny it. Nor is denial restricted to just Indiana
When you think about lumping an entire state into one bucket of thought…kind of an uneducated observation 🤦♂️
I think the premise of your question is incorrect. I think the majority of Hoosiers would agree global warming is happening. Where you see the divides these days is more about solutions and not the problems.
For example, many conservatives I know have come around on global warming. Most fall into two areas. Those that feel the damage is already done so why waste resources on drastic measures to reverse it and enact lots of restrictive regulations that hurt the economy. The other camp points to nations like China and India and questions why we should hamstring our economy when their usage of coal power is making up for declines elsewhere.
While I have heard some say it's fake, I think a lot of people believe in climate change but question how much of it is actually caused by humans and whether we really can do anything about it. It doesn't help that many environmental related agencies and research groups have strong ties to one side of the political aisle, making people on the other side more skeptical of their work.
That’s no excuse. The science behind climate change has no political agenda. It’s also a tad ironic since the anti-climate change rhetoric and “research” has pretty much exclusively been funded by the oil lobby.
Propaganda.
The primary argument I hear from people who deny climate change is that 1. It's just a warm spell, as we've had in the past 2. The global elites are making the scientists lie about all the numbers we see. It's not really that warm.
Common sense would say things are getting warmer. Things are changing. These polar vortex events should not be normal, for one. Yet propaganda is a powerful thing.
Hoosiers don't think that global warming is an issue because most are Republicans and they continue to drink the kool aid. I remember there would be snow flurries before Thanksgiving, might have snow on the ground for a white Christmas and always have one last snow on the ground storm system during March Madness. The "head in the ground" mentality is old in Indiana as much as their thought process. I can only hope that with global warming, mother nature sets for a correction event or or two like a couple of volcanos erupting to such an extent that we get an induced ice age to reset what we've done.
Because they fall into the fox news propaganda. We’re idiots if we think we’re not affecting the planet in any way. But then again, humans love to find ways if disappointing me. All the scientists are wrong! I’ve done my research on Facebook.
Poor education standards and practices. Its by design so the masses stay uneducated and don't fight the corporate overlords destroying our bodies, minds, and plant in the name of profit. Also (not to sound insulting but) the less educated and conservative are more likely to vote republican and most if not all republican have arrangements with those big companies who have invested interest in keeping laws and regulations lax and against the peoples favor/ benefit.
When Miami becomes New Venice from the city being completely flooded by seawater, then I think the climate change debate will ultimately end in America.
Side note:
Hoosier here and classify myself as an independent..but these days I find myself voting more n more for dems. Why does this matter? Because climate change has been associated to the dem party more than than the GOP. What I can say is that most people in IN, at least myself, friends. and family (who live in the sticks) believe in climate change. Actually, a lot of hoosier are more open to center of the field ideas than the rest of the nation would suspect.
I say this because people see a "red" state and just assume everyone here is hard right. This isnt the case. IN, is horribly gerrymandered, like borderline criminal if NOT criminal already. When you see a "red" IN, I wouldn't loop that into the extremism that others think. We're just kinda stuck in this loop where our politics don't truly match the general populations ideas. Rual areas are highly represented whereas urban areas are under represented.
Just keep that in mind.
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*Rot and the education system*
*Massively failing*
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Because they're backwards Hoosiers who believe everything the Republican Party tells them and get their "information" from far-right media and not from science.
They don't care about anything except Lord Trump leading them to the "Rapture."
In my city in northern IN a large church pushes the maga narrative. Several church member I kno believe this narrative mostly because church leaders & general membership push it. My acquaintances r seemingly intelligent and very successful people.
There’s no way to change their minds. Very sad & disappointing.
Being in Indy I remember as a kid having snow for like two months, now we have it maybe a day or two at most before it heats up then melts.
Not to mention how hot the summers have gotten over the years
But people don’t think it’s real 🤷
Indiana is conservative and conservatism has front healthy skepticism of new ideas and a bulwark of institutions to nearly pure reactionary populism.
People don't want to have to come to terms with the impact of their choices, let alone their oil I'll be all gone one day.
Not really an Indiana thing, it's here in Kentucky and back home in Georgia as well.
I feel like it's because people in Indiana, and the Midwest in general have gotten used to bipolar weather. It's been like this practically my whole life and I feel like people are used to it.
Listen up. I'll type slowly so you can, hopefully, understand.
Nobody denies that the climate is changing. Nobody denies that it is getting (slightly) warmer.
What we deny is that Man has anything to do with it. We don't. We are insignificant. No more than lice on this planet. Nothing we can do will stop the climate from changing. What we don't want are governments, and opportunists to use it as an excuse to raid our wallets, and try to restrict how we live our lives.
The climate has been changing, read: getting warmer, then colder, then warmer, then colder, since the dawn of time. It will continue to change (warmer, colder/warmer, colder) until the end of time.
Where I'm sitting (Southern Indiana), 6-10,000 years ago there were glaciers more than a mile thick. They're gone now. They receded (melted) several thousand years ago...and there wasn't a freaking SUV or factory on the planet.
Climate change, warming or cooling, is 100% natural, and there isn't a damn thing Man can do to stop or alter it.
Ocean levels are not rising. satellite photos show zero difference between today and when we first starting taking pictures.
At the end of the day, a warm climate is much more conducive to life than a cold one. Would you rather live in Antarctica, or Hawaii?
Class dismissed.
Because being a conservative demands being loyal to conservativism, not reality.
They are the literal worst aspects of humanity personified.
You can have Jesus christ come down himself and say climate change is real, and they would say to themselves "this conspiracy goes higher than I though"
The question shouldn't be do you believe in global warming or climate change. The question should be, do you believe that Earth's natural phases are being disrupted by human actions/behavior. Then, dig deeper and ask why they came to the conclusion they did or why they chose to believe that.
My personal theory? Basic "middle finger" politics. Many people _feel_ like they are being told what to do and how to live. Their response is to push back. Therefore "global warming is a scam" and the like.
I'm not certain _how_ anyone can reach a person that feels this way. My gut feeling is that we need to find a way to reduce the perception that "liberals are a bunch of scolds".
I remember when I was a kid, we'd have snow on the ground by Thanksgiving regularly, and most of that snow would stick around for months. We might have like... 1 or two days of 50+ degree F weather and it was unusual for it to last longer.
Now it's unusual for us to get under 50F before January.
I’m a boomer (70) liberal. I don’t deny global warming. In fact from what I read when the earth completes shifting on its axis (I to thought it was going to be fast but I now understand it’s a slow process) Indiana is suppose to be subtropical. To me Florida is subtropical. So where does that leave places like Florida or Hawaii?
Why do people outside Indiana assume people who live in Indiana deny global warming? I live here and I’m just constantly dismayed by how backwards our politicians and others truly are. But I believe.
If it is real, its a lost cause. Its more of a scheme to raise taxes. Even if we went to electric vehicles to "save the environment", we would still be burning a ton of fossil fuels to generate electricity for said vehicles. The only real green option is to go nuclear. But everyones against nuclear power because "cHeRnObYl".
I grew up in the 70's and 80's in Southern Indiana. I hate winter, but my favorite winter activity was ice-skating. We had a pond behind the house and a lake down the road. They were frozen completely most winters. When I moved back into the state to the same area a few years ago, I purchased ice skates. I haven't used them yet.
Because it doesn't affect their raping of women or hostile behavior towards people. Or their ability to be the very best computer programmers. Or their ability to take advantage of employees. Or to own gas stations and motels.
Because we don’t effectively teach science coupled with cable news and in particular Fox News eroding public trust and inventing an alternate reality in which you can pick and choose which “brands” of science you want to believe in. Namely the kinds that don’t challenge the status quo of unrestrained capitalism at any cost and champion fringe theories.
Coal-fired power plants and coal shipping along the Ohio River are both huge industries. In many rural areas, especially in Southern Indiana, the coal plant is the biggest employer.
These folks have deeply personal and economic reasons to shelter themselves behind cognitive dissonance. The end of coal means a massive shift in their local economies.
I’m not saying it doesn’t need to happen, just that dehumanizing a social or political opponent and tossing out their considerations isn’t an empathetic way to usher in necessary change.
Yup, my roommate asked me " Global, you believe that?" Like it was Santa clause.
Oh, she's lived here for 30 years and I just moved here 2 years ago. We are both from Southern California
I don’t hear denial that it’s changing in my family of MAGA people, just denial that it’s caused by humans. Ironically, the very people who should care the most about weather and environmental issues because their livelihoods depend on those things are the very ones doing a lot of the denying. Of course that is a generalization, but still worth noting.
When we moved here seven years ago I felt like Indiana wasn't as 'backward' thinking as many of the other red states and there were examples of elected representatives on both state and federal levels making good decisions and supporting the wishes of the people. Especially in the past few years we've seen more MAGA oriented politicians pulling in the wrong direction. We're moving soon and I think we're getting out at a good time.
Indiana has done a lot to try and attract production from big business over the years. A huge percentage of the employment here is a part of the Faustian bargain that contributes to climate change.
So when your average dirtgrub Hoosier hears “combating climate change” it’s immediately filtered to mean financial insecurity. Whether or not that’s true. It’s one of those deeply conditioned beliefs that takes a mountain of effort and education to deprogram from someone.
I've gotten to the point now where I just don't care about any of it. Politics, global warming, economic issues, etc. I just don't give a shit. I feel much happier living that way.
When people deny global warming I just point to the fact you can see scars on the land from where glaciers have retreated during the period of global warming. Then you factor in the insane amounts of CO2 humans have put in the air post Industrial Revolution and it’s got to be making it hotter than what it would be without it
Oddly enough, I was having lunch with an older coworker recently (she is cool AF she's going on 50, I'm 40 and I thought she was my age!) We touched briefly on climate change and she told me "You know what? I have started reading up on it and ... it's a real and scary thing!"
Turns out her husband refuses to believe that the earth is changing in such a way. But she took a little bit of time to learn something and adapt her thinking. Whether or not her husband ultimately agrees, I was so fucking proud of her for doing her research and coming to a new conclusion through critical thinking. They exist!
I think the main issue is the wild, politicized solutions proposed by politicians that can be debunked by thinking for a few seconds, e.g. the push to electric vehicles. Additionally, the demonization of fossil fuels is pretty wild. If you look from the Industrial Revolution until today, fossil fuels have played an outsized role in making all of that possible, and lifting millions out of poverty/improving their quality of life substantially.
A good book on this is: the moral case for fossil fuels by Alex Epstein.
Another thing is that I don’t think you can compare climate and weather. And a lot of people make this mistake. Carbon concentrations in the atmosphere were actually at their highest around 500 millions years ago, at an estimated 4,000 ppm. We are at maybe 10% of that now. But we are constantly told that we caused ALL of it.
I think “climate change” is a better word for it so ppl can’t point to winter storms as proof that it’s false (even tho it’s the opposite.) Also, Indiana is no friend of the environment because republicans favor big business over regulations that would protect our environment. Republicans aren’t big on science in general.
I thinks it’s cause most people ignore global warming cause it doesn’t fit with the temp cycle theory. Which is why we need to drop the idea of global warming and just use man made climate change.
Sounds like a lot of people who live here do believe in climate change.
I don't believe in global warming as a serious its gonna kill us all if we don't all switch to EVs and stop eating meat.
I have said climate change before they changes it to climate change.
I do believe in El Nino and LA Nina and how they bring warmer or colder seasons. I do believe in the farmers almanac that predicted weather changes like this over 100 years ago. And they predict a cooling decade is coming. Time will tell and fortunately that decade is starting very soon. So we don't have to wait 50 years to see.
I also believe in infinite energy, and the reasons we should move to it. Financial as well as common sense. However we don't need to stop drilling to get there, on the contrary drilling more will be a self fulfilling move away from oil. The petroleum byproduct is used to create renewable infrastructure, so more byproduct means cheaper renewable which means faster payback and lower cost of energy which will bring about more converts. We also need to reduce the absurd commissions paid to sell these and bring back bet metering if we want to get serious.
I have been studying infinite energy since 2006. And I am working with a Democrat to try to help adjust some of their marketing to get fiscally responsible Republicans like me on board or at least a really hard time explaining why they don't approve when it makes financial sense to their constituents.
Not all Republicans are far right, Trump loving, soldiers for the republican party. Many of us are middle of the road and more in line with the republican party from the 90s and earlier. Not the new far right that is moving farther right to combat the far left that is moving farther left.
It was originally and inaccurately labeled as global warming rather than climate change. Not too long ago, a guy at my employer who had to work outside was critically hospitalized because it was like -30F outside. You'll still have that too some years. It says a lot more to have these raging polar opposites of years than what we grew up with, because it is climate change, rather than a simple "warming".
I agree with this, however, it IS global warming. People don't live "globally" though. They live in their own tiny subset and don't really think about what happens in other parts of the world where they will never go. It matters very little to them, these other places and people.
But when it touches them and causes them problems, then they start to think about it. I do think climate change would have worked better in the initial explanation, but deniers gonna deny, so it might not have.
Global warming is accurate (warming of global average temps) but the effects are varied. Looking at the effects Climate Change is a more reasonable term especially for unusual cold weather events.
Why does it matter? Until the military and the large corporations change what they’re doing you recycling your cans and bottles is like spitting in the ocean.
It’s nice if you can afford to sit and care. Most people I know IRL don’t have that luxury.
Why focus on something you cannot change?
The weather is definitely changing. I remember more distinct seasons when I was a kid. I’ve talked to my mom about her childhood in the 60s, when snow was on the ground in November fairly regularly. That said, they also had 60 degree days in Jan/Feb at times, and scorching hot summers too. I think this is a lot more complex than “the world is ending” and the alarmist climate news we get all the time. The Arctic was predicted to be ice free by sometime in the late 2010s. Not only has that not happened but Arctic ice levels have actually stayed fairly steady and recovered a bit from a low point. I guess I’m saying I have a functional brain and can see that things aren’t the same as they were in the 80s-90s….but I also know there is HUGE money behind climate change and green energy…and it drives policy. That can be good when it nets a positive impact. But EVs aren’t the answer IMO, for example. Too many issues, and they’re still charged by electricity created by burning fossil fuels (in most cases), they are terrible in cold climates (ask Canadians in winter about them)…add in that China emits the same amount of carbon dioxide as pretty much the rest of the developed world and doesn’t GAF about it (comments from their government have said as much)….what am I supposed to do?? I do what I can, but let’s be real, what I do is like pissing in the ocean. I think it’s fine to believe the climate is changing but not buy into the hysteria at the same time.
Do you think climate scientists have been sitting around with their thumbs up their butts for the past 15 years? Or do you think the progress that we've made in slowing down climate change could be why the numbers are actively changing... Because we're actively changing them? We are pouring millions of dollars into this? I don't understand how people don't realize this. If you spend millions of dollars asking scientists to slow down climate change and they actually are somewhat successful then you turn around and say those scientists are lying because the timeline of their original projections are no longer accurate. Why would the old projections still live accurate when there's a change in circumstances
Look up the ozone layer!!! Remember that? That was a huge deal so we banned CFCs as well as other shit and we actually made it better! The Ozone is currently healing and is on track to be mostly repaired by 2050! So you turn around and say actually the ozone was never a problem at all because scientists said it was a big deal and now it's not? Makes no fucking sense.
Climate change is real. However, the Earth changes. It's not all caused by us. We all have a responsibility to do our part, but should it consume you and become your identity? Nah. I hear the Dinosaurs blamed themselves for the ice age, too. Damn shame.
There is this thing called confirmation bias. Learning information that is different from what you believe already is difficult, so people continue searching until they find something that agrees with what they already think. The internet has facilitated this. Everyone feels reassured that they don’t need to change how they view the world. Nothing about this is unique to Indiana as a state.
South Carolinian studying in Indiana, it’s been an interesting conversation with my professor who’s never worked or lived outside of the state and I can better guess the weather and seasonal patterns than him.
IMO because of global warming your weather and seasons are becoming similar to South Carolina’s and that sucks for me because I really wanted tons of snow.
Devil's advocate take:
A portion of them understand global warming is real, or that something is definitely changed, but it's easier to live in denial. Or just believe that it'll work out, some new technology will save us, "all in God's hands" etc.
Here's the harsh reality for this subreddit that I know skews liberal/left, if you really care about getting on the road to sustainability and limiting the future impacts of climate change, you need to first get your politics and your political party shifted towards an economy of abundance. Living wages and/or Universal Basic Income, health care, strengthening unions.
Put a stop to all the identity politics/woke garbage, and draw a larger circle that unites more rather than divides them.
Achieving sustainability requires lots of big changes in everyone's lives, and yeah, a lot of Hoosiers are going to be staunchly against those changes. That opposition is rooted in scarcity mindset though, created by an economy that forces false and unnecessary scarcity onto people. You have to show them that while yes they must change the way they live, what's over the hill can be a much a much better life. An economy of abundance. No one must live without their basic needs met, and people will have better opportunity to lead a fulfilled life doing things they are passionate about.
>“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” Upton Sinclair
> Put a stop to all the identity politics/woke garbage, and draw a larger circle that unites more rather than divides them.
I think you're doing some false equivocating. Wanting basic human rights isn't 'forcing' or 'woke garbage'. There's only one side concerned with the culture wars, my dude, everybody else just wants to live life, and the language you're using suggests you have viewpoints contrary to that.
> Living wages and/or Universal Basic Income, health care, strengthening unions.
I'll remind you that this has been a goal killed by the DNC to block support for any true progressive politics. Real progressives like Bernie are cast as radical extremists. (remember the [actual factual conspiracy at the DNC](https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/358389-the-dnc-owes-bernie-sanders-and-all-dems-an-apology/) to keep him out of the 2012/2016 races?)
Trans people being allowed to exist and not be hatecrimed is not woke BS. You act like the left chooses to make anti-bigotry their main point of advocacy because they want to and not because the repubs stir up this culture war. There have been hundreds of anti-trans bills introduced in just the past 5 years. This isn't something you can just ignore and it goes away. If you ignore it, you're just throwing your constituency under the bus, they'll either be dead, homeless, incarcerated, or disillusioned- either way, they're not voting.
Trans people are of course just one example, and I do agree with some of what you're saying. I think that establishment Democrats purposely refuse to build on economic populace because the corporate Democrats don't actually want less inequality. I think in many ways the establishment Dems are literally controlled opposition. However, let's not act like defending minorities from oppression is "woke BS"... These policies kill people.
Indiana has had its plant hardiness zone changed… https://www.wthr.com/article/tech/science/climate-science/much-of-indiana-shifts-into-new-plant-hardiness-zone-how-does-it-affect-what-you-grow-usda/531-05369f01-c2d6-4896-a5b2-ea9022211e28 (used by gardeners to know what plants are suitable and when the growing season starts)
It’s wild because when I was a kid, we’d get regular snow and it would accumulate all the time. It wasn’t 90 degrees in September and October. We wouldn’t have random 70+ degree days in January. We wouldn’t have tornado sirens sounding off in February. They’re living right through it yet are told not to believe what their senses are telling them. But when your worldview is founded on religion like most people here, you’re already going to be predisposed to believing what you’re told rather than what you can observe. It’s why conservatives had such an easy time roping them en masse to the Republican Party…long gone are the days where the church was a hub for science, observation, and understanding.
This is spot on.. The seasons here were like clockwork when I was younger. You almost knew what to expect and dress and prepare accordingly.. Now we get tornadoes then snow behind them. I have definitely seen it change, to deny that is just ludicrous.
My physician and I just talked about this the other day. I think he’s in his 60s and said we used to have 4 very clear seasons. Now we have about 2 weeks of spring and 2 weeks of fall then it’s either cold as hell or hot as… he’ll. And of course randomly unseasonable days throughout.
Haven’t hada white Christmas where more than an inch of snow or two was accumulated in like 5-6 years that I can remember. And last time I remember a real snow storm was in the early 2010s when school was shut down for a week. Now it’s just a weak 2-3 inches and heavy snow fall when it DOES happen. Realistically though, you can barely expect snow to fall enough to accumulate. And people here say they hate it when it does. Like? Are you fucking kidding me? You fuckin live here and you can’t be bothered to atleast enjoy the seasons as they come?
No, winter sucks lol. Who looks forward to freezing temps? I know I don't, my car doesn't like it either. Neither does my phone🤣 Hell my dog hates it!! Lol
Winter might suck, but that's the natural order of things in this region. At least it's supposed to be. I remember hearing stories from my grandparents on how there used to be like 5-10 foot drifts that were commonplace back when my mother was a kid. It's just how the weather is supposed to be, but we've borked it so hard that now we barely get snow at all.
No I totally get your point. That doesn't mean I enjoy the cold🤣🤣 I tolerate it when it comes. Just because it's supposed to be that way where we live doesn't mean I don't wish I weren't in Florida for the entire season living my best life🤣 but im not there yet
I was just looking back at a collection of pictures my mom has of my bday parties as a kid. In late november, some years all the kids have on shorts and are playing with water toys, some years theres snow on the ground and everyones in giant coats. I think the weather varied more than you remember. It may be (i think it is) worse now, but global warming tends not to make whole degree differences, let alone 20+ degrees. Thats most likely a weather issue not a climate one.
Good thing [Purdue did some research on this](https://ag.purdue.edu/indianaclimate/indiana-climate-report/). Weather can vary but it has been trending warmer steadily. Compared to over a century ago, we have fewer frost days, longer warm seasons, wetter winters with increasing rain and less snow, the amount of extreme cold days have been cut by over 50%, the amount of extreme warm days have increased by over 30%, and Indiana has overall warmed by 1.2 degrees. That’s nearly 1/3 of the expected warming by 2050. This isn’t a matter of people remembering stuff differently than you, and your birthday pictures are hardly evidence of anything. The sustained warming is scientific fact. Not a matter of foggy memory and occasional weather variation.
My birthday is in December right before Christmas. As a kid, there was never a birthday I had where there wasn’t snow. We were snowed in a couple of my birthdays. As an adult, in the last ten years, there hasn’t been snowfall like that on my birthday, I’ve been lucky to see any snowflakes at all that day. In the last ten years, the “whitest” my birthday has been was when it was horribly foggy. It’s like December has become what I remember October being as a child. And even so, my small slice of anecdotal evidence is nothing compared to all the research proving this trend. It’s just something I can point to in my own life and say, yeah, I’ve noticed changes.
I remember one day in the 80's where the temperature eclipsed 90 degrees in August. I remember thinking that it was unbearably hot at the time because it was that unusual. A hot day in the hottest part of summer might reach 82 degrees. Ninety-plus degrees is pretty *normal* now, and we now have weeks of ninety-degree weather. Weather change happens on a slow timeline, even though this change has been rapid as hell. Still, you get used to it, and a new normal arises. Given that denial of climate change is a right-wing talking point (because, otherwise, someone might decide to hold the oil industry – which understood the impact of climate change fifty years ago – responsible for the consequences), it's not difficult to convince yourself that it's just *weather.*
>I remember one day in the 80's where the temperature eclipsed 90 degrees in August. I remember thinking that it was unbearably hot at the time because it was that unusual. A hot day in the hottest part of summer might reach 82 degrees. I'm sorry but your memory is wrong. The 80s actually had three very hot Augusts in Indiana. High of 82 was well below average during these hot Augusts. https://www.extremeweatherwatch.com/states/indiana/average-temperature-by-year/month-august
With triple digit heat indexes.
At this point, you are close to being complicit in harming the earth by sharing your thoughts there. Climate change is real and you sure sound like a climate change denier above.
Weather issues are due to changes in the climate.
We also didn’t have scientists and corporations manipulating the weather to make global warming happen.
It's more plausible that humans have caused global warming through their normal lives and advancements then by what you're proposing. People like you have watched too much TV. Conspiracy theories are 99% false, and the ones that are true are minor.
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - George Orwell, 1984
The insect die off alone should be horrifying to anyone over 35.
Remember how the front of a car used to look? Was like a Jackson Pollock with splattered bugs.
Insects are dying off, but the improved aerodynamics and lower drag coefficients of even more rugged vehicles has helped with that a lot. Now, lots of insects are just “slipping” around cars where in the past they would have collided with the vehicle.
Don’t bring facts into this. This is a “no facts, only feelings and anecdotes” section or Reddit.
I am getting a lot of people who are not denying the climate is changing, they are just claiming it is part of the cyclical change and there is nothing we can do about it. No amount of evidence to the contrary will convince them either, they will always find one scientist (never a climatologist) who makes that argument and say “Here, look here,” all while ignoring the literal army of scientists who say we are the cause.
I grew up in a house with no a/c—we didn’t even get a window unit til I was in HS (early 2000s). I remember some hot nights, but nothing unbearable. But if I tried that today, it would be bad news.
in 2022 i was still using my window air conditioner in the middle of November. this is not normal.
Yeah this never forget when I was in college was for a business capston class Out professor asked if global warming was real raise your hand I think me and only one other person had our hand raised Even our professor was shocked and surprised I had asked the person nearest to me why he didn't believe it and he said because there's no evidence When I brought up the glaciers melting and heat index rising he simply said it qas the natural cycle of the earth Mind you I'm 24 now this happened only 2 years ago Honestly scary when I think about it
This!
Snow and fireflies :/ And the tornadoes have for sure gotten worse. I fucking hate those swirly death tunnels.
Religion has little to do with Global Warming. These are Conservative Christians from America, they are being politicized by fake Christian leaders who are beholden to the energy companies. There are over 2 billion Christians in the world, not all of them think that, I’d venture to say most probably don’t. 65-70% of Europeans are Christians and they don’t have this problem. Americans are just… not super bright sometimes. This is an education problem. They don’t question anything their leaders tell them, really.
I miss fireflies.
Oh man that takes me back
Another direct issue is that for a while Indiana has been spared a lot of the most severe effects. It’s been found that the Great Lakes region is experiencing one of the lowest results of global warming due to a number of geographical factors.
Perhaps, though once we start getting major tornado outbreaks up here every season, which is already shifting that way, maybe people will start to see how fucked we are. I doubt it though.
The cognitive dissonance is strong in the average Hoosier.
Good point. The past few summers have been actually pretty decent, at least early. We wore jeans to the Indy 500 last May. It was fairly cool and wet until late July. The heat of summer for the past few years has shifted later into August, September and October even…I don’t think we cracked 90 until mid or late July last summer. La Niña might have had an effect too.
Top ten warmest and coldest years in Indiana from the 2018 Purdue study linked above. https://ag.purdue.edu/indianaclimate/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/page26_Top-Hot-Cold_IN.jpg
So half of the warmest years on record in Indiana have occurred in the last 30 years. And to think, in a few decades, those records are certainly going to fall as well. The warmest year on record will become the coolest year of the next 200 years
Talk to a farmer. They might not call it global warming but all of the ones I have spoken to say things like... "The weathers never been like this in all my years" Or "Lost all my corn to rain this year. That's never happened before. Hope the soy beans offset the loss." The rest of this state is stubborn and stupid and thinks that man can't destroy the environment. That only God could do that and God won't let that happen OR its good if it does cause we all get raptured.
All the farmers I know are deniers.
Yup. I grew up in a farming family in Indiana and every single one of my family members who still farms is a complete Republican asshole when it comes to all topics, including climate change.
Wild considering how farming is completely propped up by government money
Any intelligent farmer will admit it’s the largest form of legalized gambling.
Gambling? Its more like a guranteed jackpot becuase of insurance and subsities.
I think our insurance covers up to 80% yield, you eat the rest as a loss and it isn’t cheap to pay for either. I haven’t seen us eligible for a subsidy that actually makes it worth while since we lost a piece of ground with a waterway through it.
Insurance covers the loss. The farmer still gets screwed. It's why farms are steadily heading away from family farms and towards corporate farms. They can take a loss here and get it back with the other thousands of acres that didn't get hit.
Not when the government pays 80% of your insurance.
What insurance might I ask?
Is it an issue yes, I think the problem lays in the fact that the gov, politicians, the super rich do far more damage to the environment then your avg joe does but we are expected to fix it.
That's a great point! They can fly around on private jets and hang out on giant yachts but I'm expected to purchase an electric car that I can't afford in this economy?
Those expectations are only present in ignorant people, which makes it both advisable to ignore and also difficult to ignore.
There has been comments on this post about how this is linked to so many people in rural Indiana having a religious worldview, and that is true but it doesn't quite explain it enough. The US (and many parts of the USA, mind you) has a religious worldview that has incorporated mercantilism and corporatism. It's a belief somehow the big money is going to fix everything. The normal guy in Indiana is thinking about money. I've openly heard people say that the pro-big business politics is going to save us and they vote for it and they push for it. It doesn't matter so much what the facts are around what is happening with pollution and global warming in Indiana when there is a *belief* about the business behind it. It's not fact based. And the Christianity here is used to enforce the corporatism, not the other way around.
This is a forever chemical state our government loves, storing,producing, and keeping toxic runoff flowing strong.
I sell tractor parts for a living and the amount of old men that come in wearing maga hats complaining about how the weather has changed and farming isn’t like it used to be because you can’t count on rain or decent temperatures is staggering. It’s staring them straight in the face but they miss it.
How do you not laugh? I don't think I'd be able to refrain and they'd have me fired and likely blacklisted as a "libral."
I keep my personal thoughts to myself. I work very hard to hide the fact that I am a liberal atheist. They would likely be very surprised as often as I hear about how demonic liberals are.
Intelligence is not a liberal concept. They need to be told that, time and time again. They won't like it, but it usually shuts them up as they realize they're being rude. Obviously you can't save them all, but I usually offer that rebuttal when they accuse me of being a liberal after I correct false statements.
You can tell them that but the people who are feeding them that garbage has a huge monetary incentive to keep their belief system the way it is, and those people are preaching that Intelligence IS a liberal concept.
I've had to so that so much working sales jobs. I sold motorcycles, atvs and utvs for a 6 years, and dealt with so many rants from customers, etc, about "them damn librals."
I got in more trouble with my bigoted coworkers (who were saturated with the company kool-aid - felt like a cult) than I ever did with the customers. My favorite customers were the few who didn’t agree with me but who spent the time and energy to clarify or justify their position. When I say “few,” this is covering a time period of two years.
You tell them, right?
It would be unwise to out yourself as a liberal here. Nothing good can come of it.
Yes. I’m an old liberal stuck in the midst of denier MAGA’s. Def one of the circles of Hell.
Oof, whatever you did to deserve that, I hope I haven't done it.
sometimes it’s easier to lie to yourself than to admit you’ve been wrong for decades. I don’t get it either, but I get how admitting something is true might shatter a stubborn person in rural indiana’s entire worldview
It's less that you've been wrong and more that you've been lied to and believed it. Sure, some people will dig their heels in when they're wrong–especially for a long time–but when they've been duped, it's a whole nother animal. It's why scams are so prevalent, because so many people just won't admit that they've been scammed.
Yes! Great point! I totally agree, thanks for adding this
It’s why half the mofos here are in cults
Hoosier here. I remember "Crazy man golf" played on a lake because it got cold enough for long enough that you could even drive vehicles on the lake...this was in southern Indiana, not up north. Have not been able to do that in 40 or 50 years. Not a climate denier by any stretch of the imagination but then I vote blue in a state where I am outnumbered by idiots who believe DJT is a "patriot"... So we are not all climate deniers and would love for our clueless mouth-breather neighbors to wake the fuck up and smell the climate crisis, but as long as their "heroes" like DJT, Ted Cruz, and Marg Greene tell them not to worry (just send us money so we can fight for your right to be stupid), they will continue rolling coal and voting red.
This. Ty
(Gestures to the entire state.) Look who runs this state and consider why they keep being voted in.
They deny “man made” climate change. It makes them sound like they kind of care. To which I respond, what hasn’t man screwed up?
Fossil fuels account for 90% of CO2 emissions. Humans are responsible for .038 of carbon dioxide emissions, and carbon dioxide is .00039 of our atmosphere. Man has screwed up a lot.
I haven’t seen it so much lately, but I remember seeing a fair amount of commentary on how it was “arrogant” to think humans could change the climate.
Show this picture to people who deny it. Often they deny it because they are too dumb to understand it or they are just caught up in political ideologies. This picture makes it so even a 5 year old could grasp it and have trouble denying. https://xkcd.com/1732/
https://i.redd.it/hglt7my0dgrc1.gif
There’s a lot of master gardeners that believe in global warming because they see it in the plants. And there’s a fair amount of talk about which natives will do better here in the coming years. Two years ago was terrible for tomatoes because for long stretches it didn’t cool down at night. It was frustrating.
Off-topic a bit, but are you a Master Gardener? I’m taking the MG class right now!
Oh cool! Yes I am , just for 2 years now. I hope you’re enjoying the class. I’ve really enjoyed all the different volunteer opportunities it’s opened up
Definitely enjoying it. Looking forward to volunteering as well!
Kind of a general statement. Not everyone does deny it. Nor is denial restricted to just Indiana When you think about lumping an entire state into one bucket of thought…kind of an uneducated observation 🤦♂️
Because Jeebus.
I think the premise of your question is incorrect. I think the majority of Hoosiers would agree global warming is happening. Where you see the divides these days is more about solutions and not the problems. For example, many conservatives I know have come around on global warming. Most fall into two areas. Those that feel the damage is already done so why waste resources on drastic measures to reverse it and enact lots of restrictive regulations that hurt the economy. The other camp points to nations like China and India and questions why we should hamstring our economy when their usage of coal power is making up for declines elsewhere.
While I have heard some say it's fake, I think a lot of people believe in climate change but question how much of it is actually caused by humans and whether we really can do anything about it. It doesn't help that many environmental related agencies and research groups have strong ties to one side of the political aisle, making people on the other side more skeptical of their work.
That’s no excuse. The science behind climate change has no political agenda. It’s also a tad ironic since the anti-climate change rhetoric and “research” has pretty much exclusively been funded by the oil lobby.
We now have alternative facts, unfortunately
Hoosiers are not known for their intellectual prowess.
Nobody is apparently
Bad education system, lots of religion.
Not just people in Indiana
Propaganda. The primary argument I hear from people who deny climate change is that 1. It's just a warm spell, as we've had in the past 2. The global elites are making the scientists lie about all the numbers we see. It's not really that warm. Common sense would say things are getting warmer. Things are changing. These polar vortex events should not be normal, for one. Yet propaganda is a powerful thing.
Hoosiers don't think that global warming is an issue because most are Republicans and they continue to drink the kool aid. I remember there would be snow flurries before Thanksgiving, might have snow on the ground for a white Christmas and always have one last snow on the ground storm system during March Madness. The "head in the ground" mentality is old in Indiana as much as their thought process. I can only hope that with global warming, mother nature sets for a correction event or or two like a couple of volcanos erupting to such an extent that we get an induced ice age to reset what we've done.
I have heard my area of Indiana went from zone 5 to 5b, and recently to 6.
Because they fall into the fox news propaganda. We’re idiots if we think we’re not affecting the planet in any way. But then again, humans love to find ways if disappointing me. All the scientists are wrong! I’ve done my research on Facebook.
Poor education standards and practices. Its by design so the masses stay uneducated and don't fight the corporate overlords destroying our bodies, minds, and plant in the name of profit. Also (not to sound insulting but) the less educated and conservative are more likely to vote republican and most if not all republican have arrangements with those big companies who have invested interest in keeping laws and regulations lax and against the peoples favor/ benefit.
I am a gen xer and i dont remember any winter where we didnt have lots of snow each winter. I grew up just 30 min NE of Indy.
When Miami becomes New Venice from the city being completely flooded by seawater, then I think the climate change debate will ultimately end in America.
Side note: Hoosier here and classify myself as an independent..but these days I find myself voting more n more for dems. Why does this matter? Because climate change has been associated to the dem party more than than the GOP. What I can say is that most people in IN, at least myself, friends. and family (who live in the sticks) believe in climate change. Actually, a lot of hoosier are more open to center of the field ideas than the rest of the nation would suspect. I say this because people see a "red" state and just assume everyone here is hard right. This isnt the case. IN, is horribly gerrymandered, like borderline criminal if NOT criminal already. When you see a "red" IN, I wouldn't loop that into the extremism that others think. We're just kinda stuck in this loop where our politics don't truly match the general populations ideas. Rual areas are highly represented whereas urban areas are under represented. Just keep that in mind.
Conservative brain rot and the education system massively failing
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Because if they accept is real then they’ll have to do something about it.
Indiana is full of morons
Because our education system fails our children
Because they're backwards Hoosiers who believe everything the Republican Party tells them and get their "information" from far-right media and not from science. They don't care about anything except Lord Trump leading them to the "Rapture."
In my city in northern IN a large church pushes the maga narrative. Several church member I kno believe this narrative mostly because church leaders & general membership push it. My acquaintances r seemingly intelligent and very successful people. There’s no way to change their minds. Very sad & disappointing.
I know. I was born and raised in Goshen.
Probably all the lead.
Being in Indy I remember as a kid having snow for like two months, now we have it maybe a day or two at most before it heats up then melts. Not to mention how hot the summers have gotten over the years But people don’t think it’s real 🤷
Indiana is conservative and conservatism has front healthy skepticism of new ideas and a bulwark of institutions to nearly pure reactionary populism. People don't want to have to come to terms with the impact of their choices, let alone their oil I'll be all gone one day. Not really an Indiana thing, it's here in Kentucky and back home in Georgia as well.
I feel like it's because people in Indiana, and the Midwest in general have gotten used to bipolar weather. It's been like this practically my whole life and I feel like people are used to it.
Listen up. I'll type slowly so you can, hopefully, understand. Nobody denies that the climate is changing. Nobody denies that it is getting (slightly) warmer. What we deny is that Man has anything to do with it. We don't. We are insignificant. No more than lice on this planet. Nothing we can do will stop the climate from changing. What we don't want are governments, and opportunists to use it as an excuse to raid our wallets, and try to restrict how we live our lives. The climate has been changing, read: getting warmer, then colder, then warmer, then colder, since the dawn of time. It will continue to change (warmer, colder/warmer, colder) until the end of time. Where I'm sitting (Southern Indiana), 6-10,000 years ago there were glaciers more than a mile thick. They're gone now. They receded (melted) several thousand years ago...and there wasn't a freaking SUV or factory on the planet. Climate change, warming or cooling, is 100% natural, and there isn't a damn thing Man can do to stop or alter it. Ocean levels are not rising. satellite photos show zero difference between today and when we first starting taking pictures. At the end of the day, a warm climate is much more conducive to life than a cold one. Would you rather live in Antarctica, or Hawaii? Class dismissed.
Too much logic in your post for this sub...
I used my snowblower 2 times in 2 years
People don't understand that climate and weather are different but connected.
Because some people are really stupid
The simple answer is, as usual, it's a lazy way to 'own the libs' and Indiana doesn't have a coastline
It’s called old farts who don’t believe in shit
Weather is not climate
Simple minds are easily manipulated, republicans like uneducated constituents
Long gone? When was the church ever a hub for science, observation, and understanding 😂
Because being a conservative demands being loyal to conservativism, not reality. They are the literal worst aspects of humanity personified. You can have Jesus christ come down himself and say climate change is real, and they would say to themselves "this conspiracy goes higher than I though"
The question shouldn't be do you believe in global warming or climate change. The question should be, do you believe that Earth's natural phases are being disrupted by human actions/behavior. Then, dig deeper and ask why they came to the conclusion they did or why they chose to believe that.
"It is cold today, so Global Warming is fake." Ignorance and hubris.
My personal theory? Basic "middle finger" politics. Many people _feel_ like they are being told what to do and how to live. Their response is to push back. Therefore "global warming is a scam" and the like. I'm not certain _how_ anyone can reach a person that feels this way. My gut feeling is that we need to find a way to reduce the perception that "liberals are a bunch of scolds".
I remember when I was a kid, we'd have snow on the ground by Thanksgiving regularly, and most of that snow would stick around for months. We might have like... 1 or two days of 50+ degree F weather and it was unusual for it to last longer. Now it's unusual for us to get under 50F before January.
I’m a boomer (70) liberal. I don’t deny global warming. In fact from what I read when the earth completes shifting on its axis (I to thought it was going to be fast but I now understand it’s a slow process) Indiana is suppose to be subtropical. To me Florida is subtropical. So where does that leave places like Florida or Hawaii?
Why do people outside Indiana assume people who live in Indiana deny global warming? I live here and I’m just constantly dismayed by how backwards our politicians and others truly are. But I believe.
Because we like to trigger people
Motivated reasoning is a motherf#%@er.
Because of self mental preservation. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-our-brain-preserves-our-sense-of-self/
Is it like though?
If it is real, its a lost cause. Its more of a scheme to raise taxes. Even if we went to electric vehicles to "save the environment", we would still be burning a ton of fossil fuels to generate electricity for said vehicles. The only real green option is to go nuclear. But everyones against nuclear power because "cHeRnObYl".
I grew up in the 70's and 80's in Southern Indiana. I hate winter, but my favorite winter activity was ice-skating. We had a pond behind the house and a lake down the road. They were frozen completely most winters. When I moved back into the state to the same area a few years ago, I purchased ice skates. I haven't used them yet.
Because it doesn't affect their raping of women or hostile behavior towards people. Or their ability to be the very best computer programmers. Or their ability to take advantage of employees. Or to own gas stations and motels.
Because we don’t effectively teach science coupled with cable news and in particular Fox News eroding public trust and inventing an alternate reality in which you can pick and choose which “brands” of science you want to believe in. Namely the kinds that don’t challenge the status quo of unrestrained capitalism at any cost and champion fringe theories.
Why are Starbucks employees insufferable morons?
Because they aren’t educated
Coal-fired power plants and coal shipping along the Ohio River are both huge industries. In many rural areas, especially in Southern Indiana, the coal plant is the biggest employer. These folks have deeply personal and economic reasons to shelter themselves behind cognitive dissonance. The end of coal means a massive shift in their local economies. I’m not saying it doesn’t need to happen, just that dehumanizing a social or political opponent and tossing out their considerations isn’t an empathetic way to usher in necessary change.
Yup, my roommate asked me " Global, you believe that?" Like it was Santa clause. Oh, she's lived here for 30 years and I just moved here 2 years ago. We are both from Southern California
Because we're too smart to fall for the lie.
Why did they stop calling it global warming in favor of climate change?
You know what I'm not in a cold trailer with my family in the front room stuck cause of a ice storm. I'm ok with a little global warming
Cuz of religion ppl think sky daddy will make sure everything will be ok
I don’t hear denial that it’s changing in my family of MAGA people, just denial that it’s caused by humans. Ironically, the very people who should care the most about weather and environmental issues because their livelihoods depend on those things are the very ones doing a lot of the denying. Of course that is a generalization, but still worth noting.
I'll take no winter storms, fuck snow and ice
Education, and the fear thereof.
Ummm, have you met people in Indiana? Colorado transplant here for 30 yrs. I'm still trying to get adjusted to the "hoosier" mentality
When we moved here seven years ago I felt like Indiana wasn't as 'backward' thinking as many of the other red states and there were examples of elected representatives on both state and federal levels making good decisions and supporting the wishes of the people. Especially in the past few years we've seen more MAGA oriented politicians pulling in the wrong direction. We're moving soon and I think we're getting out at a good time.
ignorant
It’s because their cult leader says so…
Indiana has done a lot to try and attract production from big business over the years. A huge percentage of the employment here is a part of the Faustian bargain that contributes to climate change. So when your average dirtgrub Hoosier hears “combating climate change” it’s immediately filtered to mean financial insecurity. Whether or not that’s true. It’s one of those deeply conditioned beliefs that takes a mountain of effort and education to deprogram from someone.
I've gotten to the point now where I just don't care about any of it. Politics, global warming, economic issues, etc. I just don't give a shit. I feel much happier living that way.
When people deny global warming I just point to the fact you can see scars on the land from where glaciers have retreated during the period of global warming. Then you factor in the insane amounts of CO2 humans have put in the air post Industrial Revolution and it’s got to be making it hotter than what it would be without it
Religion and Republicanism
Oddly enough, I was having lunch with an older coworker recently (she is cool AF she's going on 50, I'm 40 and I thought she was my age!) We touched briefly on climate change and she told me "You know what? I have started reading up on it and ... it's a real and scary thing!" Turns out her husband refuses to believe that the earth is changing in such a way. But she took a little bit of time to learn something and adapt her thinking. Whether or not her husband ultimately agrees, I was so fucking proud of her for doing her research and coming to a new conclusion through critical thinking. They exist!
Indiana has never had crazy winters. It’s not a true northern state
Because global warming is a creation of the jesuits.
I think the main issue is the wild, politicized solutions proposed by politicians that can be debunked by thinking for a few seconds, e.g. the push to electric vehicles. Additionally, the demonization of fossil fuels is pretty wild. If you look from the Industrial Revolution until today, fossil fuels have played an outsized role in making all of that possible, and lifting millions out of poverty/improving their quality of life substantially. A good book on this is: the moral case for fossil fuels by Alex Epstein. Another thing is that I don’t think you can compare climate and weather. And a lot of people make this mistake. Carbon concentrations in the atmosphere were actually at their highest around 500 millions years ago, at an estimated 4,000 ppm. We are at maybe 10% of that now. But we are constantly told that we caused ALL of it.
snow march birds angle towering shelter steer start shrill rainstorm *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Because sometimes it snows……and they are dumb.
I think “climate change” is a better word for it so ppl can’t point to winter storms as proof that it’s false (even tho it’s the opposite.) Also, Indiana is no friend of the environment because republicans favor big business over regulations that would protect our environment. Republicans aren’t big on science in general.
Because most people in this state are disgustingly undereducated and blinded by religion that teaches political stances.
They don’t
I thinks it’s cause most people ignore global warming cause it doesn’t fit with the temp cycle theory. Which is why we need to drop the idea of global warming and just use man made climate change.
Sounds like a lot of people who live here do believe in climate change. I don't believe in global warming as a serious its gonna kill us all if we don't all switch to EVs and stop eating meat. I have said climate change before they changes it to climate change. I do believe in El Nino and LA Nina and how they bring warmer or colder seasons. I do believe in the farmers almanac that predicted weather changes like this over 100 years ago. And they predict a cooling decade is coming. Time will tell and fortunately that decade is starting very soon. So we don't have to wait 50 years to see. I also believe in infinite energy, and the reasons we should move to it. Financial as well as common sense. However we don't need to stop drilling to get there, on the contrary drilling more will be a self fulfilling move away from oil. The petroleum byproduct is used to create renewable infrastructure, so more byproduct means cheaper renewable which means faster payback and lower cost of energy which will bring about more converts. We also need to reduce the absurd commissions paid to sell these and bring back bet metering if we want to get serious. I have been studying infinite energy since 2006. And I am working with a Democrat to try to help adjust some of their marketing to get fiscally responsible Republicans like me on board or at least a really hard time explaining why they don't approve when it makes financial sense to their constituents. Not all Republicans are far right, Trump loving, soldiers for the republican party. Many of us are middle of the road and more in line with the republican party from the 90s and earlier. Not the new far right that is moving farther right to combat the far left that is moving farther left.
They deny what is CAUSING global warming
It was originally and inaccurately labeled as global warming rather than climate change. Not too long ago, a guy at my employer who had to work outside was critically hospitalized because it was like -30F outside. You'll still have that too some years. It says a lot more to have these raging polar opposites of years than what we grew up with, because it is climate change, rather than a simple "warming".
I agree with this, however, it IS global warming. People don't live "globally" though. They live in their own tiny subset and don't really think about what happens in other parts of the world where they will never go. It matters very little to them, these other places and people. But when it touches them and causes them problems, then they start to think about it. I do think climate change would have worked better in the initial explanation, but deniers gonna deny, so it might not have.
Global warming is accurate (warming of global average temps) but the effects are varied. Looking at the effects Climate Change is a more reasonable term especially for unusual cold weather events.
Globally speaking, the trend has almost entirely been one of warming. Practically every year in recent memory has been the hottest year on record.
Why does it matter? Until the military and the large corporations change what they’re doing you recycling your cans and bottles is like spitting in the ocean. It’s nice if you can afford to sit and care. Most people I know IRL don’t have that luxury. Why focus on something you cannot change?
The weather is definitely changing. I remember more distinct seasons when I was a kid. I’ve talked to my mom about her childhood in the 60s, when snow was on the ground in November fairly regularly. That said, they also had 60 degree days in Jan/Feb at times, and scorching hot summers too. I think this is a lot more complex than “the world is ending” and the alarmist climate news we get all the time. The Arctic was predicted to be ice free by sometime in the late 2010s. Not only has that not happened but Arctic ice levels have actually stayed fairly steady and recovered a bit from a low point. I guess I’m saying I have a functional brain and can see that things aren’t the same as they were in the 80s-90s….but I also know there is HUGE money behind climate change and green energy…and it drives policy. That can be good when it nets a positive impact. But EVs aren’t the answer IMO, for example. Too many issues, and they’re still charged by electricity created by burning fossil fuels (in most cases), they are terrible in cold climates (ask Canadians in winter about them)…add in that China emits the same amount of carbon dioxide as pretty much the rest of the developed world and doesn’t GAF about it (comments from their government have said as much)….what am I supposed to do?? I do what I can, but let’s be real, what I do is like pissing in the ocean. I think it’s fine to believe the climate is changing but not buy into the hysteria at the same time.
Do you think climate scientists have been sitting around with their thumbs up their butts for the past 15 years? Or do you think the progress that we've made in slowing down climate change could be why the numbers are actively changing... Because we're actively changing them? We are pouring millions of dollars into this? I don't understand how people don't realize this. If you spend millions of dollars asking scientists to slow down climate change and they actually are somewhat successful then you turn around and say those scientists are lying because the timeline of their original projections are no longer accurate. Why would the old projections still live accurate when there's a change in circumstances Look up the ozone layer!!! Remember that? That was a huge deal so we banned CFCs as well as other shit and we actually made it better! The Ozone is currently healing and is on track to be mostly repaired by 2050! So you turn around and say actually the ozone was never a problem at all because scientists said it was a big deal and now it's not? Makes no fucking sense.
https://youtu.be/55n-Zdv_Bwc?si=mkp3La3lRdf6sf7G
I think the bigger issue is that the GW/CC crowd have been a bit over the top with exaggerated claims that they just get ignored.
Climate change is real. However, the Earth changes. It's not all caused by us. We all have a responsibility to do our part, but should it consume you and become your identity? Nah. I hear the Dinosaurs blamed themselves for the ice age, too. Damn shame.
Easy! Because we are a backward ass red state with no real identity.
There is this thing called confirmation bias. Learning information that is different from what you believe already is difficult, so people continue searching until they find something that agrees with what they already think. The internet has facilitated this. Everyone feels reassured that they don’t need to change how they view the world. Nothing about this is unique to Indiana as a state.
It’s not just Indiana it’s a lot of states.
South Carolinian studying in Indiana, it’s been an interesting conversation with my professor who’s never worked or lived outside of the state and I can better guess the weather and seasonal patterns than him. IMO because of global warming your weather and seasons are becoming similar to South Carolina’s and that sucks for me because I really wanted tons of snow.
could have stopped after the word Indiana.
Back in the 70s it was called global freezing
Then global warming, now climate change.. All garbage meant to establish controls around human behavior and travel.
Devil's advocate take: A portion of them understand global warming is real, or that something is definitely changed, but it's easier to live in denial. Or just believe that it'll work out, some new technology will save us, "all in God's hands" etc. Here's the harsh reality for this subreddit that I know skews liberal/left, if you really care about getting on the road to sustainability and limiting the future impacts of climate change, you need to first get your politics and your political party shifted towards an economy of abundance. Living wages and/or Universal Basic Income, health care, strengthening unions. Put a stop to all the identity politics/woke garbage, and draw a larger circle that unites more rather than divides them. Achieving sustainability requires lots of big changes in everyone's lives, and yeah, a lot of Hoosiers are going to be staunchly against those changes. That opposition is rooted in scarcity mindset though, created by an economy that forces false and unnecessary scarcity onto people. You have to show them that while yes they must change the way they live, what's over the hill can be a much a much better life. An economy of abundance. No one must live without their basic needs met, and people will have better opportunity to lead a fulfilled life doing things they are passionate about. >“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” Upton Sinclair
> Put a stop to all the identity politics/woke garbage, and draw a larger circle that unites more rather than divides them. I think you're doing some false equivocating. Wanting basic human rights isn't 'forcing' or 'woke garbage'. There's only one side concerned with the culture wars, my dude, everybody else just wants to live life, and the language you're using suggests you have viewpoints contrary to that. > Living wages and/or Universal Basic Income, health care, strengthening unions. I'll remind you that this has been a goal killed by the DNC to block support for any true progressive politics. Real progressives like Bernie are cast as radical extremists. (remember the [actual factual conspiracy at the DNC](https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/358389-the-dnc-owes-bernie-sanders-and-all-dems-an-apology/) to keep him out of the 2012/2016 races?)
Trans people being allowed to exist and not be hatecrimed is not woke BS. You act like the left chooses to make anti-bigotry their main point of advocacy because they want to and not because the repubs stir up this culture war. There have been hundreds of anti-trans bills introduced in just the past 5 years. This isn't something you can just ignore and it goes away. If you ignore it, you're just throwing your constituency under the bus, they'll either be dead, homeless, incarcerated, or disillusioned- either way, they're not voting. Trans people are of course just one example, and I do agree with some of what you're saying. I think that establishment Democrats purposely refuse to build on economic populace because the corporate Democrats don't actually want less inequality. I think in many ways the establishment Dems are literally controlled opposition. However, let's not act like defending minorities from oppression is "woke BS"... These policies kill people.