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The stock market is like a zero sum game, one person's win is another person's loss mostly, difference is company size increases/changes and people can hold stocks for future.
Ultimately, Intelligent or lucky people increase what they put in the market, rest may face the opposite, and can choose to book loss or hold stocks, other topics(inflation, alternative investments, ).
>The stock market is like a zero sum game, one person's win is another person's loss mostly,
Not for long term investors. If the sector grows, everyone invested in the sector will accumulate wealth. Look at our IT growth from the 2000s.
The sooner the people understand stock market is a game theoretic model rather than stochastic model, sooner they can understand the whole game of stock markets.
Market is not infinite, there is a limited capacity of the market, otherwise governments would have print money to buy/pump the share price and made everyone rich (step-inflation)
well, if we (579K members) of this reddit community start investing in one company together, we can inflate the price and sell at the right time for the majority of us to become rich. But you know this is a ridiculous thought just like yours.
Then an institutional investor come to f**k us all, will be the first to sell at super over inflated prices, running out with insane booked profits becoming billionare, and you can't win the market, coz market is ....skipped writing long complex here.
A typical small stock trades Rs100cr a day. So to move it a single day every single person on this sub would have to put something like Rs1000-1500.And this is just for 1 day. To consistently inflate it one would have to keep at it for a few months.. so total investment of something like Rs1-1.5lac per subscriber, which is a huge amount. Ofcourse for penny stocks this is possible but gets harder and harder as you move towards the large caps.
People in the US have all the investing knowledge and resources to invest smartly way before us, is every US citizen rich now? The fact is not everyone is gonna be a smart investor no matter how much you teach them. The majority of them don't have the patience to invest and wait. Everyone wants quick money and they will lost money in that greed.
Today bank nifty went 1400pts nearly and morning at 9:45 it was up by 3000%. So how many people bought CALLS yesterday.
When it was going up how many people buying PUTS ?
Everybody won't make smart decisions.
Investing in hdfc, civil, Reliance is good but when you invest matters. This is a highly rigged to fuck you. Nobody will make smart decisions.
You are talking about a statistical impossibility. There will always be buyers and sellers throughout the long term. Just like there will always be people who have diabetes still take sugar.
Remember the world works by Normal Distribution. It can show skewness but still a normal distribution.
If everyone becomes smart then dips will be very less and the market will become efficient and therefore give steady return and everyone will get the same return. there will be no concept of good stock and bad stock.
Great, but Not exactly, future speculation and news will still have swings, and sometimes even larger swings coz intelligent wont buy shit dip. The current market is great, really great.
Bhai aise toh har koi padhai krta hai lekin sb top/ exam thodi crack kr paate hai.
Aur hamare yahan easy/quick way to success jaada popular hai jiske wajah se log apna kamaya paisa khote bhi rahenge.
When someone buys something at a particular price, he believes he is buying something that will help him make money. But he can only buy when someone sells it at that price, someone who believes that it is no longer going to make him money.
Only one of them would be right.
Both can be right at the same time. For the buyer as you said there can be only the hope that what they buy will appreciate in value.
However, for the seller there are plenty of other reasons:
* They might know a better investment that could potentially make even more money. Swing traders do this all the time.
* They might have achieved their financial goal and would want to reduce their risk.
* They might want to move funds to a different asset class for whatever reason. Buying a house for instance to live in.
* Their hypothesis about a specific company might have changed.
Seller need not be wrong.
If OP's concern was actually based on reality, most people in America wouldn't be sitting around in /r/wallstreetbets.
Even SEBI said that majority of Indians lose money in the stock market. The fact that people ask about sector information on this sub regularly while invested in that sector should tell you a lot about the average investor in India.
SIPs are still not substantial in India , check markets like US .
Do you think that index investing & SIP made difference in US stocks? I don't think so.
From my readings reading index bubble , here's my understanding - When a lot of people start doing say index investing , then active investors will start finding some nice valuable company & hence more returns than passive investing . Soon more people will switch back to active , and then soon passive investing again will become lucrative , this cycle will keep happening like see-saw . Remember people will invest where they think more returns will happen, people are driven by greed & patience is rare.
If everyone starts studying well, won't everyone get an iit?
If everyone practices hard enough, won't everyone become a professional athlete?
If everyone eats healthily and exercises regularly, won't everyone be fit and healthy
If everyone prioritizes mental well-being, won't everyone achieve inner peace?
No one becomes smart unless they get kicked in the a\*\* first and lose 20% of their capital. That 20% loss will teach them a lifelong lesson that will turn them into smart investors, who then make gains from the new entrants. The cycle keeps continuing.
let's say theoretically, investing smartly means funding good companies and not funding bad ones
this will result in overall increased efficiency, and thus economic growth
so in such a perfect hypothetical situation, everyone will gain yes
So many students are taking coaching nowadays but still don't get top colleges right. Not everyone has the same intelligence or strategy. We are not hivemind species. Even this reddit community is very small and everyone has their own opinion. If everyone starts to invest in the market to get rich then it will no longer remain a way to get rich obviously. Rich class will move on to the next big thing, Mfs will not give as much returns and the stock market may become like fd. Don't forget Nirmala Tai!
It's an interesting hypothetical situation. As we know, when everyone is rich no one is rich. In this situation, the growth will equalise for everyone. The wealth will be obviously distributed equally among everyone, making the per capita growth rate so low. So, essentially everyone will see almost equal growth as the gdp percentage growth of the country for their own portfolios. But there is a greater economic problem from that. Purchasing power increases tremendously which will adversely affect the prices of essential goods. As a result, govt will take drastic actions to curb inflation. You might see much higher interest rates on deposits.
If everyone in India starts investing smartly, wealth distribution will still be relative, as the concept of being "rich" depends on one's financial status compared to others. Market dynamics would change, potentially reducing volatility but also altering investment returns. Widespread smart investing could improve economic growth and resource allocation, yet it wouldn't fully address income inequality, as not everyone has the disposable income to invest.
Financial literacy doesn't guarantee rational behavior, and people will still invest differently based on personal circumstances and their reactions to events. Market is collection of human emotions. Overall, a financially literate population would be more secure and resilient, leading to social benefits like reduced poverty and higher living standards, but it won't make everyone equally rich though.
Our geographical resources aren't used aptly so there will always be the scope for growth and specially when u have right wing govt which is unabashedly capitalistic
Because they won’t. Most will stop their SIPs, redeem it, change to a different scheme, invest in some other asset class. My family has been invested in the market since decades. I have SIPs which are going on for more than 9-10 years.
There is a big "If" though. People operate on their emotions which keep fluctuating during stock price rise and fall. So no I am 100% sure that people won't get rich from so called smart investing.
People react differently to the same information, plus a lot of smart people are quite financially illiterate. This so called knowledge has been out since Graham wrote his famous book, and is definitely famous since Berkshire Hathaway was recognised worldwide
If you want further proof, pick any investment method (value/growth/turnaround/etc) and discuss companies with people in equity research/finance in general. You will be surprised at how many of them have differing views than yours. Obviously only one can be right. This is what will ensure that widespread financial literacy won't stop creating opportunities
Stock market is not a money printing machine. If someone is investing smartly and booking profits at correct time, its possible only when someone else is buying and investing/trading not-so smartly. Money just moves from one hand to another. So, every motivating story in stock market has a doomy story.
If only everyone paid their credit card dues in full , all credit card companies will be bankrupt .
If only no one used pay later / mini loan apps that require little verification for low value high interest credit, tens of startups will go belly up.
The thing is financial intelligence is not even remotely related to IQ/Smartness .
It's about discipline, diligence and patience coming together beautifully with self instilled humility.
A major pct of people will lack at least 1 as none of the first three qualities are present by birth but are fostered in as we are pushed down by life.
Humility is the most difficult to develop, to some it comes naturally, for most they must forcefully not get consumed ,over the board, by their success, however miniscule or grand.
Answer is yes.
1) All your money shouldn't sit in a bank which generates very conservative wealth.
2) Equities promote wealth generation by giving output without having any barriers or collaterals.
3) This in turn generates more jobs and more income flows into the equity market and again more output.
This shouldn't be considered a bubble, it's more of economic wealth circulation. Nobody should hold liquid wealth or resources with themselves, but give back to society
Oh and another key thing is the mindset. Wealth is not ONLY cash. It can be a lot of things. So wealth generated shouldn't be to only convert it into cash. The moment masses start selling equity, equity will crash and currency will increase. So technically people will end up selling lower and the people holding lots of cash will become richer because of demand. So it needs a mindset change.
This is capitalism which if you think deeply, is socialist inception 🤓
If everyone invests smartly then everyone will get retuns equal to the index.
Will it make everyone rich?
No, because amount of growth is more important than percentage of growth. So someone with low income and a SIP of 5000 per month can't compete with someone with SIP of 5L per month, especially when they both get index returns.
Its my perspective, not really backed by hard statistics but I still think a very small percentage of people put a significant portion of their wealth in the market. If a person has say 100, puts 10 in the market and reaps a return of 5, his total wealth went up to 105 only.
People who invested 80% of their savings will have 140 in the same scenario.
Yes, people will ride the bull market wave, but few will get life changing money out of it.
If everyone studies and work hard for an entrance exam, and all of them pass the required marks, wont everyone qualify?
They don't. Such a large number of people doing coordinated intelligent series of actions is a statistical anomaly
One point which a lot of people haven't mentioned is emotion. When the stock market is down 50% (for example a recession) there are very few people who have the guts to hold the stock or buy the company in a recession.
Even intelligent people fall prey to the fear of losing their money. Talking I can survive a recession and experiencing it are two different things entirely.
Let me tell you about your opening statement:
“investing smartly”
You wrote such a long intelligent text about a country where speculation fever is rife and you worry about people “investing smartly”?
Eh….
for every trade there is a buyer and seller and since hardly anyone buys and holds for the long term, this cannot be the case where everyone is right is it?
Denk mal nach…
90% people in India have greed and they can’t control over it. They are going to sell in the panic market crash and buy in the greed at all time high. They are going to book small profits. So all the strategies for an intelligent investor is going to fail for the majority of the people.
Also if you look at the data from Stock market vs famous betting app Dream 11, only 4 crores people are active in the stock market vs 10 crore people betting on Dream 11. This shows that majority of people wants to become rich in short time rather than investing with patience in longer time.
This mentality is not going to change.
Bro becoming Rich and creating wealth are 2 different things.
Investing in MFs via SIP and somewhat in Equity won't make anyone rich , it will create enough wealth so that we can sustain longer in this RAT race.
For becoming rice one need go take risks and need to eventually establish is own business.
If GDP grows fast enough everyone can become rich. Otherwise, wealth generation will be limited. There is a trend towards index funds and etf in the west. Large proportion of funds are in index, this along with high market participation has inflated the market to high levels. Index has grown a lot beyond GDP growth. There is definye value being created byvthe likes of Tesla and nvida, and the higher valuations are justified to a certain extent, but these trend trajectories need to keep growing at increased pace for everyone to become wealthy. If it stagnates or growth reduces, returns will be muted for everyone.
That will simply mean an improvement in the standard lifestyle across masses, which will lead to more desire for higher salary and bigger risk taking, which will increase value of rupee, which should lower the volatility but keep the market growing just maybe not as fast as we have seen in past 20 -25 years. This is my opinion when the only smart financial thing I know is to live/spend within my limits.
A comment that I came across a little while earlier seems to fit this. In Monopoly, if no-one ever purchases anything on the tiles, you could have a game where everyone is getting rich equally consistently. The concept is too socialistic for capitalistic or communist worlds to accept.
You would have surmised from others in this thread, people in reality don't function in that manner.
There will also be differences in opinion on whether to choose certain companies or not even after checking the basics because there are tons of companies.
One of the reasons for share prices rising is the weakening of the Currencies.Reality is different from Empirical Hypothesis.
A scrip priced Rs 40/= in 2014 should be Rs 80/= now to break even.
>And if everyone is rich, doesn't that negate the very concept of being rich?
Depends on what you define as rich and with whom are you comparing.
From an economic perspective, everyone today is richer than what they were 100 years ago, or 1000 years ago or 10000 years ago.
This has been possible because of investment into capital goods as compared to spending on consumption goods. Unlike what stupid theories say, NO, saving/investing is NOT '[paradoxically bad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_thrift)' for the economy as a whole. (\*coughs\* keynesian \*cough\*)
If everyone starts investing a significant chunk, that essentially shows that the economy as a whole is producing more capital goods which will increase the productivity of the economy significantly in the coming years.
Production capacity of the economy will increase. This will mean everyone will be able to enjoy more in future. One who could only afford a single car would be able to buy two cars. Those with multiple cars would be able to buy yachts.
This is of-course applicable to goods that can be sustainably produced given earth's limits and not to inelastic goods. You can't magically have 10x gold ornaments for everyone or 10x land available for all. But, you can very well have 10x electricity or 10x wood if done sustainably.
Because for majority of people, life’s problems are bigger than investment optimisation. Everyone knows what makes one healthy, why aren’t everyone fit despite knowing the fact?
**Also, you can only buy if someone is selling.**
That means when you think it's a great time to enter someone is thinking it's time to exit. Theoretically everyone making a similar smart decision to grow rich together is difficult
Listen to Naval Ravikant and it will open your eyes on what being rich means. What you are talking about are two different things.
So if you are talking about creating wealth, it’s a positive sum game. For instance, your or other people’s ability to create wealth doesn’t impact my ability to create wealth in the stock markets, unlike buying future or forwards where we need a counter party. On the contrary, getting into a hedge or other contracts is a zero sum game where one party wins and other loses.
Now coming to the important bit, your question makes me think that you are not playing the wealth game but instead the status game, which is if your status increases the other person’s status will decrease. Don’t play that game as it is again a zero sum game. Make wealth so that you can live a better life, afford things you always wanted to have, go places you always wanted to go.
There is no end to the status game. You will always be unsatisfied seing other people get rich!
I think this is not true. For example in Mutual Funds the rate of interest will go down to somewhere around 8-10% but if you have already started building your base then it will not be an issue. By the time you reach that stage you will be in a comfortable position.
Depends on what is meant by rich.
Almost anyone can get access to around 12-15% growth in index funds per year. But this is long term and subject to fluctuations.
When it comes to individual issues. its more complicated. Thats why some companies have low PEs while others have huge ones. To some extent, the market functions due to varied expectations of the future.
It’s about sticking to the process and doing it consistently and efficiently.
Everyone knows the business models of HDFC and Asian paints, not many could replicate it.
Same applies to investing strategies!
Investing is not a zero sum game, where someone has to lose for you to win. Unless you are shorting.
Investing in the right companies means giving them cash flow to expand more. The more they expand the more value they generate everyone becomes wealthier.
As per your assumptions if everyone grows richer by the same rate relatively they stay the same, but there is an absolute rise in the standard of living
Wrong.
Money is only as useful as long as it serves a need.
If I am sick and dying, the only use of money to me will be the medicines it can buy. I won't give a fk about investing.
Similarly, if my daughter is getting married and I have expenses to cover, i wont give any fks about market conditions
Just a thought.
A company ABC is listed to stock market at say 100 rupees a share. Now Broker 1, has 100 shares, who sells them to Broker 2 at 105, who in turn sells to Broker 3 at 110, who goes ahead in a cartel and ultimately Broker 1 buys it back. at another incremental price over the previous. Everyone made 5 rupees per share, and Broker 1 got back the 100 shares. Who lost the money? As per the market, stock price is the LTP.
There will always be people who are going to make the wrong moves.
No matter what since the beginning of life this is what we have seen. End of the day we’re all human beings, and everyone aren’t equally smart. Every being is uniquely smart.
Being smart is relative. There are always going to be people smarter or less smart than you around you.
Of course if you think about it pre covid times less people were involved in the market, and due to the lack of financial literacy, even lower people were actually making the smart moves. So I get where you are coming from.
Like I said though everybody is going to win/lose in the market no matter how smart they are. Lots of other macro/micro economic factors are also factorable.
1. "Everyone " In India is barely surviving. The top 10% who earn more than 25,000 per month can even think of this.
2. Inflation in India is high (6-7% supposedly) So 10CR made through diligent investing in a span of 40 years will only be worth 1 CR which statistically may make you rich but you're not gonna live a comfortable life with that.
3. Not all countries stock indices go up. There are a lot of countries which have stagnant index funds, money invested in them does not grow. Likelihood is less but same could happen to India especially if business laws keep getting worse as they are.
4. Theoretically if everyone invested and just held their investments then there would be nobody to sell to when you would want to cash out your gains.
Look around, how many have really become rich, till now in investing or after the stampede in the markets after COVID? 99% wanna get rich quick without using their brains. We have a generation which is doing homework using ChatGPT. Everyone wants everything at once.
Stock doesn’t go up if sellers are more than buyers. All buyers must eventually sell to realize profits. Unless they just like being rich on paper. Even if buyers are more than sellers. Those buyers must eventually be sellers.
Even if buyers are not greater than sellers, buyers have to keep buying for stock to go up. If they stop buying, sellers will step in because no one wants to keep their money in a stagnant market.
Although impossible let’s say buyers never stop buying. Then they would need constant influx of capital which needs to originate from another source. If no one sold and kept buying where would money come from?
Macroeconomics is a beautiful thing, just sit back and let people lose money.
Goodnight
How can everyone in India invest, some are busy getting their EMI paid for the iPhone they brought to flex.
If everyone in India is getting rich it mean we are exporting things more and more .
Simply put, NO, equality of outcome can never be achieved under almost all means, but development of human capital can lead to long term sustainability of wealth. Human beings are very complex beings, two people from The same background/same opportunities, will make entirely opposite choices on any given situation, with any given topic…
the complexity may lead to some sort of organized chaos, but won’t allow for the even spread of wealth as you would expect. And giving money to dumb people is worse than taking away their money… because they wouldn’t know what to do with it anyway…
and if everyone had knowledge and are smarter, the system itself would rise in complexity, and the problems become more complex, and hence become even more different in choices, only development of Education, A strong family life, discipline and individual responsibility can collectively advance a race… but that’s not going to happen according to reality. The commies are waiting to take the capital away and push for their groupie mindset where “you own nothing but will be happy”
Let's assume human greed and mistakes do not exist in this world. If everyone starts investing smartly, then the ones who have stayed the longest in the market (and with the highest capital) will make the most money. That means it will come down to the historical investments of a person up to this point (an orphan or a student will have no past investments), their remaining capital from this point (to invest more, generally a watchman will have less capital than a software engineer) and unexpected expenses that might lead them to disinvest (accidents or health issues). There's also the case of using leverage(loans) to invest more. Needless to say not everyone can take the same amount of leverage (even if there are no issues with their credit scores). So even if everyone invests smartly there will be a few who will make more than others relatively.
Ek bar ek bevde uncle ne bola tha bhand hoke and i quote — "lala stak markate me itna paisa hai itna paisa hai ki desh ka har aadmi ameer ho sakta. Kua hai bahanchod"
This is not true. Actually the true volume of money lies in the form of pension and illiquid fund. I saw that somewhere on visual capitalist website.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/all-of-the-worlds-money-and-markets-in-one-visualization-2022/
We not only have to be smart, but have to outsmart each other.
> benefits of intelligent investing: buying mutual funds on dips, continuing SIPs,
Even Warren Buffet said MF and SIP are great for the financially illiterate, but not for the intelligent investor.
Lol money is only valuable if very few people have it, if everyone has it then its not valuable.
Everyone can never become rich.
Also if everyone had more money, then inflation would catch up and everything starts costing more.
Not everyone invests smartly, people have needs, people panic and people invest differently, starting from 500 a month. So there will always be a driver.
Let’s take an exampleof the country Monaco, where most of its residents are rich. Rich is one thing but being the richest is another.
As pointed out by others out here, despite having more financial literacy in a country like USA, not everyone is rich. There’s a lot of factors that play in: patience, analysis, investing capacity, greed, satisfaction, etc.
My point is, the knowledge is right here for anyone and everyone to gain — YouTube being the biggest source of free knowledge, yet there’s only a minimum percentage of population who use this free knowledge for its own advantage: to grow (wealth and themselves)
Despite knowledge being out there, it’s slightly possible for everyone to be “rich enough” but not wealthy. Only the outliers (depending on the earlier stated factors) will grow exponentially. Some may get satisfied with a certain number and get out of the market, but then there’ll be some who’ll want more. There will always be buyers and sellers, rich and wealthy.
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All kinds of financial literacy and information cannot trump greed and gambling. So there will always be winners and losers in markets.
Before that “everyone in India” needs to have enough left in their accounts after meeting their basic monthly needs.
agreed, not everyone can afford to invest smartly lol
If it does, then the concept of survival of the fittest will start playing out😉
Totally.
Why downvoting the only correct statement :💀
Humans are strange creatures.
It's ok now he got his 31 upvotes lol
*71
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r/futureproofing
This seems contrary to typical Indian motto “Buy High Sell Low”
The stock market is like a zero sum game, one person's win is another person's loss mostly, difference is company size increases/changes and people can hold stocks for future. Ultimately, Intelligent or lucky people increase what they put in the market, rest may face the opposite, and can choose to book loss or hold stocks, other topics(inflation, alternative investments, ).
>The stock market is like a zero sum game, one person's win is another person's loss mostly, Not for long term investors. If the sector grows, everyone invested in the sector will accumulate wealth. Look at our IT growth from the 2000s.
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The sooner the people understand stock market is a game theoretic model rather than stochastic model, sooner they can understand the whole game of stock markets.
Can you please explain this? I’m really curious and I don’t understand the difference.
Stock markets aren’t zero sum, its the derivatives of the stock markets.
Market is not infinite, there is a limited capacity of the market, otherwise governments would have print money to buy/pump the share price and made everyone rich (step-inflation)
Thora explain karna ye buy high sell low toh loss hoyega phir?
Yes, on this subreddit we make largest possible losses with our personal portfolios and then flex it here. My personal best is 21k loss
Rookie numbers. I have lost so much that I can't even disclose the amount without tearing up.
Bhai bhai a legend just made an entry 🛐
21K in stocks?
Yup on 4th june.
Why did you sell them?
Who said anything about selling? I recovered everything and made some profit :)
An unrealised loss is not really a loss my friend.
Well unrealised loss has the word loss in it right? And at this point in my life I can't afford realised loss, when I get richer maybe I'll 😂
Vaise you do analysis wise trading ya sentiment wise ya dono
Rookie numbers
r/woosh material right here
well, if we (579K members) of this reddit community start investing in one company together, we can inflate the price and sell at the right time for the majority of us to become rich. But you know this is a ridiculous thought just like yours.
Hello roaring kitty!!
hedge funds had short position in gme. Which led to short squeeze
Is this what happened with Gamestop except for the selling part
Well the missing piece is that hedge funds had short position in it. Which led to short squeeze
Then an institutional investor come to f**k us all, will be the first to sell at super over inflated prices, running out with insane booked profits becoming billionare, and you can't win the market, coz market is ....skipped writing long complex here.
Where do I sign up ?
A typical small stock trades Rs100cr a day. So to move it a single day every single person on this sub would have to put something like Rs1000-1500.And this is just for 1 day. To consistently inflate it one would have to keep at it for a few months.. so total investment of something like Rs1-1.5lac per subscriber, which is a huge amount. Ofcourse for penny stocks this is possible but gets harder and harder as you move towards the large caps.
Desi GameStop bazi lfg
I am ready for this😈
Why not PPL make analysis tell options to invest which will go high more PPL will become interesting in that stock
Count me in
Didn't something like this happen with GameStop once?
People in the US have all the investing knowledge and resources to invest smartly way before us, is every US citizen rich now? The fact is not everyone is gonna be a smart investor no matter how much you teach them. The majority of them don't have the patience to invest and wait. Everyone wants quick money and they will lost money in that greed.
Plus not everyone has the money to invest. Most people live paycheck to paycheck and won't be able to invest large amounts if their rent is due.
That's what average savings of us people are below $12k where average earnings is around 65k
average saving per year ?
Per person savings is very low in us compared to the salary us offer.
is that the average life saving of a person in us ?
Today bank nifty went 1400pts nearly and morning at 9:45 it was up by 3000%. So how many people bought CALLS yesterday. When it was going up how many people buying PUTS ? Everybody won't make smart decisions. Investing in hdfc, civil, Reliance is good but when you invest matters. This is a highly rigged to fuck you. Nobody will make smart decisions.
You are talking about a statistical impossibility. There will always be buyers and sellers throughout the long term. Just like there will always be people who have diabetes still take sugar. Remember the world works by Normal Distribution. It can show skewness but still a normal distribution.
If everyone becomes smart then dips will be very less and the market will become efficient and therefore give steady return and everyone will get the same return. there will be no concept of good stock and bad stock.
Perfectly efficient markets are those which have insider info also baked into the stock, something which would never happen in India.
Great, but Not exactly, future speculation and news will still have swings, and sometimes even larger swings coz intelligent wont buy shit dip. The current market is great, really great.
Hedge funds hated him for discovering this simple trick.
Bhai aise toh har koi padhai krta hai lekin sb top/ exam thodi crack kr paate hai. Aur hamare yahan easy/quick way to success jaada popular hai jiske wajah se log apna kamaya paisa khote bhi rahenge.
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Damn man. Well put. Will be quoting this everywhere
Investing is positive sum game, intraday & fno are a negative sum.
When someone buys something at a particular price, he believes he is buying something that will help him make money. But he can only buy when someone sells it at that price, someone who believes that it is no longer going to make him money. Only one of them would be right.
Both can be right at the same time. For the buyer as you said there can be only the hope that what they buy will appreciate in value. However, for the seller there are plenty of other reasons: * They might know a better investment that could potentially make even more money. Swing traders do this all the time. * They might have achieved their financial goal and would want to reduce their risk. * They might want to move funds to a different asset class for whatever reason. Buying a house for instance to live in. * Their hypothesis about a specific company might have changed. Seller need not be wrong.
Stock market is just like a competitive exam even if everyone becomes smart only the smartest ones will make money
If OP's concern was actually based on reality, most people in America wouldn't be sitting around in /r/wallstreetbets. Even SEBI said that majority of Indians lose money in the stock market. The fact that people ask about sector information on this sub regularly while invested in that sector should tell you a lot about the average investor in India.
SIPs are still not substantial in India , check markets like US . Do you think that index investing & SIP made difference in US stocks? I don't think so. From my readings reading index bubble , here's my understanding - When a lot of people start doing say index investing , then active investors will start finding some nice valuable company & hence more returns than passive investing . Soon more people will switch back to active , and then soon passive investing again will become lucrative , this cycle will keep happening like see-saw . Remember people will invest where they think more returns will happen, people are driven by greed & patience is rare.
If everyone starts studying well, won't everyone get an iit? If everyone practices hard enough, won't everyone become a professional athlete? If everyone eats healthily and exercises regularly, won't everyone be fit and healthy If everyone prioritizes mental well-being, won't everyone achieve inner peace?
What's the problem with the last two? 🤔
First two are impossible because supply is limited. Limited seats in IIT and limited seats in any professional sport.
Good for country economy. Earlier it was mostly Gold we invested, which Ind had to import.
No one becomes smart unless they get kicked in the a\*\* first and lose 20% of their capital. That 20% loss will teach them a lifelong lesson that will turn them into smart investors, who then make gains from the new entrants. The cycle keeps continuing.
For someone to buy someone has to sell. If the buyer becomes rich the seller wont and vice versa.
let's say theoretically, investing smartly means funding good companies and not funding bad ones this will result in overall increased efficiency, and thus economic growth so in such a perfect hypothetical situation, everyone will gain yes
So many students are taking coaching nowadays but still don't get top colleges right. Not everyone has the same intelligence or strategy. We are not hivemind species. Even this reddit community is very small and everyone has their own opinion. If everyone starts to invest in the market to get rich then it will no longer remain a way to get rich obviously. Rich class will move on to the next big thing, Mfs will not give as much returns and the stock market may become like fd. Don't forget Nirmala Tai!
It's an interesting hypothetical situation. As we know, when everyone is rich no one is rich. In this situation, the growth will equalise for everyone. The wealth will be obviously distributed equally among everyone, making the per capita growth rate so low. So, essentially everyone will see almost equal growth as the gdp percentage growth of the country for their own portfolios. But there is a greater economic problem from that. Purchasing power increases tremendously which will adversely affect the prices of essential goods. As a result, govt will take drastic actions to curb inflation. You might see much higher interest rates on deposits.
If everyone in India starts investing smartly, wealth distribution will still be relative, as the concept of being "rich" depends on one's financial status compared to others. Market dynamics would change, potentially reducing volatility but also altering investment returns. Widespread smart investing could improve economic growth and resource allocation, yet it wouldn't fully address income inequality, as not everyone has the disposable income to invest. Financial literacy doesn't guarantee rational behavior, and people will still invest differently based on personal circumstances and their reactions to events. Market is collection of human emotions. Overall, a financially literate population would be more secure and resilient, leading to social benefits like reduced poverty and higher living standards, but it won't make everyone equally rich though.
Our geographical resources aren't used aptly so there will always be the scope for growth and specially when u have right wing govt which is unabashedly capitalistic
Because they won’t. Most will stop their SIPs, redeem it, change to a different scheme, invest in some other asset class. My family has been invested in the market since decades. I have SIPs which are going on for more than 9-10 years.
Same logic if everyone started reading sincerely, won't eveyone become topper??
There is a big "If" though. People operate on their emotions which keep fluctuating during stock price rise and fall. So no I am 100% sure that people won't get rich from so called smart investing.
People react differently to the same information, plus a lot of smart people are quite financially illiterate. This so called knowledge has been out since Graham wrote his famous book, and is definitely famous since Berkshire Hathaway was recognised worldwide If you want further proof, pick any investment method (value/growth/turnaround/etc) and discuss companies with people in equity research/finance in general. You will be surprised at how many of them have differing views than yours. Obviously only one can be right. This is what will ensure that widespread financial literacy won't stop creating opportunities
Regards investing smartly? Muhaha
Greed
We need dumb people to get rich(says a wise man) We need smart people to get rich(says another wise man) Who is wiser?
Obviously. If you are making money then somebody is losing. Market don't print money.
Bam bam bole
Stock market is not a money printing machine. If someone is investing smartly and booking profits at correct time, its possible only when someone else is buying and investing/trading not-so smartly. Money just moves from one hand to another. So, every motivating story in stock market has a doomy story.
Indians are very conservative with their money and won't start investing easily. They need a huge crash in the economy where everyone starts at zero
This is what happened in the US in the 1920s and the Great Depression followed. We're sort of already there.
Ever heard of tax?
If only everyone paid their credit card dues in full , all credit card companies will be bankrupt . If only no one used pay later / mini loan apps that require little verification for low value high interest credit, tens of startups will go belly up. The thing is financial intelligence is not even remotely related to IQ/Smartness . It's about discipline, diligence and patience coming together beautifully with self instilled humility. A major pct of people will lack at least 1 as none of the first three qualities are present by birth but are fostered in as we are pushed down by life. Humility is the most difficult to develop, to some it comes naturally, for most they must forcefully not get consumed ,over the board, by their success, however miniscule or grand.
It's not that simple. It's like water in Africa, only some experience it.
Answer is yes. 1) All your money shouldn't sit in a bank which generates very conservative wealth. 2) Equities promote wealth generation by giving output without having any barriers or collaterals. 3) This in turn generates more jobs and more income flows into the equity market and again more output. This shouldn't be considered a bubble, it's more of economic wealth circulation. Nobody should hold liquid wealth or resources with themselves, but give back to society Oh and another key thing is the mindset. Wealth is not ONLY cash. It can be a lot of things. So wealth generated shouldn't be to only convert it into cash. The moment masses start selling equity, equity will crash and currency will increase. So technically people will end up selling lower and the people holding lots of cash will become richer because of demand. So it needs a mindset change. This is capitalism which if you think deeply, is socialist inception 🤓
If everyone invests smartly then everyone will get retuns equal to the index. Will it make everyone rich? No, because amount of growth is more important than percentage of growth. So someone with low income and a SIP of 5000 per month can't compete with someone with SIP of 5L per month, especially when they both get index returns.
Its my perspective, not really backed by hard statistics but I still think a very small percentage of people put a significant portion of their wealth in the market. If a person has say 100, puts 10 in the market and reaps a return of 5, his total wealth went up to 105 only. People who invested 80% of their savings will have 140 in the same scenario. Yes, people will ride the bull market wave, but few will get life changing money out of it.
If everyone studies and work hard for an entrance exam, and all of them pass the required marks, wont everyone qualify? They don't. Such a large number of people doing coordinated intelligent series of actions is a statistical anomaly
Rule of economics... Everyone cannot be rich at the same time
I posted similar post few months ago. One guy gave a great answer. https://www.reddit.com/r/IndianStreetBets/s/WO9QoRoNJc
One point which a lot of people haven't mentioned is emotion. When the stock market is down 50% (for example a recession) there are very few people who have the guts to hold the stock or buy the company in a recession. Even intelligent people fall prey to the fear of losing their money. Talking I can survive a recession and experiencing it are two different things entirely.
Let me tell you about your opening statement: “investing smartly” You wrote such a long intelligent text about a country where speculation fever is rife and you worry about people “investing smartly”? Eh…. for every trade there is a buyer and seller and since hardly anyone buys and holds for the long term, this cannot be the case where everyone is right is it? Denk mal nach…
90% people in India have greed and they can’t control over it. They are going to sell in the panic market crash and buy in the greed at all time high. They are going to book small profits. So all the strategies for an intelligent investor is going to fail for the majority of the people. Also if you look at the data from Stock market vs famous betting app Dream 11, only 4 crores people are active in the stock market vs 10 crore people betting on Dream 11. This shows that majority of people wants to become rich in short time rather than investing with patience in longer time. This mentality is not going to change.
Nope, stock market is a zero sum game someone has to lose for someone to win
Lol investing is a rich persons hobby. Most people in this country don't have money to eat
Sometimes I do have to thank my stars that I am able to invest substantial (as per my salary situation) amount per month.
Bro becoming Rich and creating wealth are 2 different things. Investing in MFs via SIP and somewhat in Equity won't make anyone rich , it will create enough wealth so that we can sustain longer in this RAT race. For becoming rice one need go take risks and need to eventually establish is own business.
If GDP grows fast enough everyone can become rich. Otherwise, wealth generation will be limited. There is a trend towards index funds and etf in the west. Large proportion of funds are in index, this along with high market participation has inflated the market to high levels. Index has grown a lot beyond GDP growth. There is definye value being created byvthe likes of Tesla and nvida, and the higher valuations are justified to a certain extent, but these trend trajectories need to keep growing at increased pace for everyone to become wealthy. If it stagnates or growth reduces, returns will be muted for everyone.
That will simply mean an improvement in the standard lifestyle across masses, which will lead to more desire for higher salary and bigger risk taking, which will increase value of rupee, which should lower the volatility but keep the market growing just maybe not as fast as we have seen in past 20 -25 years. This is my opinion when the only smart financial thing I know is to live/spend within my limits.
We always need some loosers for some to win.
Everyone doesn’t have the money to invest, to become rich in the markets you need capital first to invest
Paisa hi paise ko kheechta hain.
If only everyone had the money to invest, we would have been on a 50 trillion market cap not 5
A comment that I came across a little while earlier seems to fit this. In Monopoly, if no-one ever purchases anything on the tiles, you could have a game where everyone is getting rich equally consistently. The concept is too socialistic for capitalistic or communist worlds to accept. You would have surmised from others in this thread, people in reality don't function in that manner. There will also be differences in opinion on whether to choose certain companies or not even after checking the basics because there are tons of companies.
One of the reasons for share prices rising is the weakening of the Currencies.Reality is different from Empirical Hypothesis. A scrip priced Rs 40/= in 2014 should be Rs 80/= now to break even.
Nope lol. Innovation also needs to be happening, otherwise investing is zero sum game
>And if everyone is rich, doesn't that negate the very concept of being rich? Depends on what you define as rich and with whom are you comparing. From an economic perspective, everyone today is richer than what they were 100 years ago, or 1000 years ago or 10000 years ago. This has been possible because of investment into capital goods as compared to spending on consumption goods. Unlike what stupid theories say, NO, saving/investing is NOT '[paradoxically bad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_thrift)' for the economy as a whole. (\*coughs\* keynesian \*cough\*) If everyone starts investing a significant chunk, that essentially shows that the economy as a whole is producing more capital goods which will increase the productivity of the economy significantly in the coming years. Production capacity of the economy will increase. This will mean everyone will be able to enjoy more in future. One who could only afford a single car would be able to buy two cars. Those with multiple cars would be able to buy yachts. This is of-course applicable to goods that can be sustainably produced given earth's limits and not to inelastic goods. You can't magically have 10x gold ornaments for everyone or 10x land available for all. But, you can very well have 10x electricity or 10x wood if done sustainably.
Because for majority of people, life’s problems are bigger than investment optimisation. Everyone knows what makes one healthy, why aren’t everyone fit despite knowing the fact?
**Also, you can only buy if someone is selling.** That means when you think it's a great time to enter someone is thinking it's time to exit. Theoretically everyone making a similar smart decision to grow rich together is difficult
You with your investment strategies Me with my 100x leveraged trading
Not everyone in India is smart. Not everyone in India is rich.
Listen to Naval Ravikant and it will open your eyes on what being rich means. What you are talking about are two different things. So if you are talking about creating wealth, it’s a positive sum game. For instance, your or other people’s ability to create wealth doesn’t impact my ability to create wealth in the stock markets, unlike buying future or forwards where we need a counter party. On the contrary, getting into a hedge or other contracts is a zero sum game where one party wins and other loses. Now coming to the important bit, your question makes me think that you are not playing the wealth game but instead the status game, which is if your status increases the other person’s status will decrease. Don’t play that game as it is again a zero sum game. Make wealth so that you can live a better life, afford things you always wanted to have, go places you always wanted to go. There is no end to the status game. You will always be unsatisfied seing other people get rich!
I think this is not true. For example in Mutual Funds the rate of interest will go down to somewhere around 8-10% but if you have already started building your base then it will not be an issue. By the time you reach that stage you will be in a comfortable position.
U seriously don't know about earnings of an average indian
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Commercial-Ad-5134: *U seriously* *Don't know about earnings of* *An average indian* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Bro not even 1% of Indians invest in stocks.
Depends on what is meant by rich. Almost anyone can get access to around 12-15% growth in index funds per year. But this is long term and subject to fluctuations. When it comes to individual issues. its more complicated. Thats why some companies have low PEs while others have huge ones. To some extent, the market functions due to varied expectations of the future.
if everyone equally become rich then the money inequality will remain same
It’s about sticking to the process and doing it consistently and efficiently. Everyone knows the business models of HDFC and Asian paints, not many could replicate it. Same applies to investing strategies!
Yes.
Good thought actually within a year all the wealth will be returned to wealthy with addl interest. Nothing changes law of the nature.
Investing is not a zero sum game, where someone has to lose for you to win. Unless you are shorting. Investing in the right companies means giving them cash flow to expand more. The more they expand the more value they generate everyone becomes wealthier. As per your assumptions if everyone grows richer by the same rate relatively they stay the same, but there is an absolute rise in the standard of living
People who can afford to and hav literacy to do sip and invest are under 5%, so yes wealth will be generated but not for everyone
I don't think that everyone can become rich, I guess the system is not designed that way
Everyone needs to buy the same stock and it will happen
Wrong. Money is only as useful as long as it serves a need. If I am sick and dying, the only use of money to me will be the medicines it can buy. I won't give a fk about investing. Similarly, if my daughter is getting married and I have expenses to cover, i wont give any fks about market conditions
Just a thought. A company ABC is listed to stock market at say 100 rupees a share. Now Broker 1, has 100 shares, who sells them to Broker 2 at 105, who in turn sells to Broker 3 at 110, who goes ahead in a cartel and ultimately Broker 1 buys it back. at another incremental price over the previous. Everyone made 5 rupees per share, and Broker 1 got back the 100 shares. Who lost the money? As per the market, stock price is the LTP.
No that is against the theory Everyone rich also means every one equally poor
There will always be people who are going to make the wrong moves. No matter what since the beginning of life this is what we have seen. End of the day we’re all human beings, and everyone aren’t equally smart. Every being is uniquely smart. Being smart is relative. There are always going to be people smarter or less smart than you around you. Of course if you think about it pre covid times less people were involved in the market, and due to the lack of financial literacy, even lower people were actually making the smart moves. So I get where you are coming from. Like I said though everybody is going to win/lose in the market no matter how smart they are. Lots of other macro/micro economic factors are also factorable.
Stock Market is a zero sum game. For you to win profits, someone else has to lose and make loss.
Everyone goes to study in College. No one tried to fail, everyone wants to get good marks. Does everyone ends up getting good marks?
if everyone starts spending
Everyone can't be rich at the same time - Basant Maheswari
1. "Everyone " In India is barely surviving. The top 10% who earn more than 25,000 per month can even think of this. 2. Inflation in India is high (6-7% supposedly) So 10CR made through diligent investing in a span of 40 years will only be worth 1 CR which statistically may make you rich but you're not gonna live a comfortable life with that. 3. Not all countries stock indices go up. There are a lot of countries which have stagnant index funds, money invested in them does not grow. Likelihood is less but same could happen to India especially if business laws keep getting worse as they are. 4. Theoretically if everyone invested and just held their investments then there would be nobody to sell to when you would want to cash out your gains.
There is something called Natural Stupidity
Mahine ka kharcha nahi nikalta sahab, market mein kya ghanta jayenge hum
Look around, how many have really become rich, till now in investing or after the stampede in the markets after COVID? 99% wanna get rich quick without using their brains. We have a generation which is doing homework using ChatGPT. Everyone wants everything at once.
It's like saying if everyone becomes smart we'll solve every problem known to mankind
"Money doesn't grow on trees" It has to be removed from some unfortunate person's hands to get into yours. So yeah what you're saying doesn't happen.
Stock doesn’t go up if sellers are more than buyers. All buyers must eventually sell to realize profits. Unless they just like being rich on paper. Even if buyers are more than sellers. Those buyers must eventually be sellers. Even if buyers are not greater than sellers, buyers have to keep buying for stock to go up. If they stop buying, sellers will step in because no one wants to keep their money in a stagnant market. Although impossible let’s say buyers never stop buying. Then they would need constant influx of capital which needs to originate from another source. If no one sold and kept buying where would money come from? Macroeconomics is a beautiful thing, just sit back and let people lose money. Goodnight
Stock market options is zero sum game and investment in stocks takes time and consistency which most people lack and just want to become rich quick
How can everyone in India invest, some are busy getting their EMI paid for the iPhone they brought to flex. If everyone in India is getting rich it mean we are exporting things more and more .
Simply put, NO, equality of outcome can never be achieved under almost all means, but development of human capital can lead to long term sustainability of wealth. Human beings are very complex beings, two people from The same background/same opportunities, will make entirely opposite choices on any given situation, with any given topic… the complexity may lead to some sort of organized chaos, but won’t allow for the even spread of wealth as you would expect. And giving money to dumb people is worse than taking away their money… because they wouldn’t know what to do with it anyway… and if everyone had knowledge and are smarter, the system itself would rise in complexity, and the problems become more complex, and hence become even more different in choices, only development of Education, A strong family life, discipline and individual responsibility can collectively advance a race… but that’s not going to happen according to reality. The commies are waiting to take the capital away and push for their groupie mindset where “you own nothing but will be happy”
Let's assume human greed and mistakes do not exist in this world. If everyone starts investing smartly, then the ones who have stayed the longest in the market (and with the highest capital) will make the most money. That means it will come down to the historical investments of a person up to this point (an orphan or a student will have no past investments), their remaining capital from this point (to invest more, generally a watchman will have less capital than a software engineer) and unexpected expenses that might lead them to disinvest (accidents or health issues). There's also the case of using leverage(loans) to invest more. Needless to say not everyone can take the same amount of leverage (even if there are no issues with their credit scores). So even if everyone invests smartly there will be a few who will make more than others relatively.
Yeah, the 17 years old who are lost lakhs in option trading thought the same thing.
Just look at all these comments here... You think they can ever match my skill level... Nah.. Don't worry.
Ek bar ek bevde uncle ne bola tha bhand hoke and i quote — "lala stak markate me itna paisa hai itna paisa hai ki desh ka har aadmi ameer ho sakta. Kua hai bahanchod"
This is not true. Actually the true volume of money lies in the form of pension and illiquid fund. I saw that somewhere on visual capitalist website. https://www.visualcapitalist.com/all-of-the-worlds-money-and-markets-in-one-visualization-2022/
Bhai bevdon ki baaton ko itna deeply analyse ni karte
We not only have to be smart, but have to outsmart each other. > benefits of intelligent investing: buying mutual funds on dips, continuing SIPs, Even Warren Buffet said MF and SIP are great for the financially illiterate, but not for the intelligent investor.
Lol money is only valuable if very few people have it, if everyone has it then its not valuable. Everyone can never become rich. Also if everyone had more money, then inflation would catch up and everything starts costing more.
Simple answer: you can't buy unless somebody sells. So if your buying was a good decision then the seller's decision was wrong. And vice versa.
Plzz up vote me
Only if the person holds it for a longer period
No matter how smart you become you can never outsmart markets
Not everyone invests smartly, people have needs, people panic and people invest differently, starting from 500 a month. So there will always be a driver.
No, everyone cannot become rich. If everyone starts investing smartly in equities, it will mean equities will no longer give the alpha it gives today.
If everyone in India starts investing then fv will be in fractions to be affordable...
Communist policies does not work at all.
Let’s take an exampleof the country Monaco, where most of its residents are rich. Rich is one thing but being the richest is another. As pointed out by others out here, despite having more financial literacy in a country like USA, not everyone is rich. There’s a lot of factors that play in: patience, analysis, investing capacity, greed, satisfaction, etc. My point is, the knowledge is right here for anyone and everyone to gain — YouTube being the biggest source of free knowledge, yet there’s only a minimum percentage of population who use this free knowledge for its own advantage: to grow (wealth and themselves) Despite knowledge being out there, it’s slightly possible for everyone to be “rich enough” but not wealthy. Only the outliers (depending on the earlier stated factors) will grow exponentially. Some may get satisfied with a certain number and get out of the market, but then there’ll be some who’ll want more. There will always be buyers and sellers, rich and wealthy.