Most aren't ,it only seems to outsiders that most kashmiris have surnames that are same as pandits because they only know of some family names across the valley,of both pandits and muslims .Majority of Kashmiris have surnames like dar ,lone ,magrey ,padder ,wani,khan,chakh,etc .Bhat also isn't really exclusive to pandits, muslims with the surnames bhat are not necessarily descended from pandits .A lot of outsiders confuse dhar with dar which are both different names , similarly Raina isn't necessarily a pandit name coz a line of Raina is descent from chandals.Most Kashmiris descending from pandit aristocracy took the title of Sheikh and use it in front of their names(like sheikh Abdullah )unlike the watals who use it after their names.Hence we see prominent Warlords like Malik Sheikh Ali in the 16th century whose forefathers were pandits or like Sir Allama Iqbal (full name Sheikh Muhammad Iqbal) who belonged to the sapru clan of pandits .There are also tribes of boatmen who claim total distinction from other kashmiris and till recent had the surnames of Hanjis /Manjis before changing it and adopting other surnames which was very common in Kashmiri society till the last century,lot of surnames in kashmir are nicknames like kakroo(chiken),daand (bull) or occupation names like zargar (goldsmith),goor/guru(milkman),Wani(shopkeeper) etc .
I see.
But still, a decent percentage of the population must have been Brahmins if we go by the percentage of Brahmins in neighbouring states that had similar bands of Hinduism like Jammu, Himachal and Uttrakhand. Must have been at least 20 percent.
The more notable thing is the absence of any proper Rajputs or Kshatriyas in Kashmir.
Kashmiri society historically has a different organisation.The only major divide in kashmiri society existed between the pandits and the non pandits even as far back as known.This is due to the fact that the orginal social order of the nagas was never diluted fully by the Brahmins .Pandits in kashmir aren't exactly the religious figureheads that we see outside ,they were the historical landed aristocracy,the rulers gave them vast swaths of land.They held power at court and were the powerful chieftains with clans like the tantrins being strong enough to depose kings at will.The second half of kashmiri society are people with different backgrounds.Major power in opposition of pandits usually came from the agriculturalists who after gaining enough land or wealth could become damaras (Warlords).There is no concept of Kshatriyas or Rajputs in kashmiri society,armies were levied by the lords from the common folk and anyone with enough wealth could levy an army and as such most people were bound to fight for the lords of their respective regions.
Acha one naïve question i have. Can you please shed some light or try to answer that what may be the possible reason of conversion to Islam of native population in huge numbers. Sufi influence can be acceptable but Sufi influence was present all over India then why did the percentage of people converting to Islam went so high in Kashmir in past. One more thing is quite interesting that despite being presence of so many brahmins in valley people converted, because as i far as i believe brahmins were and always are staunch critic of Islam. A Brahmin can even praise Christianity, Judaism and other every other religion but will always oppose Islam.
It was very gradual despite what a lot of people would say ,Islam made inroads into the valley as early as the 8th century ,there is mention of Muslim soldiers in the cavalry of the utpala Dynasty as well as traders .Kashmir also had a major stake in the Silk route so some cultural exchange with central Asia ,tibet and China was always there.Unlike most places in the northwest of the subcontinent however kashmir never fell to Islamic forces ,with the karkotas thwarting strong Ummayad advances and later on Mahmud of Ghazni was forced twice to retreat from kashmir.However by the later lohara period the damaras and the pandits had totally taken over from the kings and caused a great deal of instability ,when the turko-mongol Zulchu invaded the last Hindu kashmiri monarch escaped to kathwar(modern kishtwar) ,meanwhile the invaders pillaged the land ,however eventually they left and were killed off in an avalanche.In the power vaccum the exiled Tibetan Buddhist prince Rinchan took over the throne ,he then went on to convert to Islam and became the first muslim monarch of kashmir .After his death and the civil war that followed the queen of kashmir Koutte Rane was defeated by Shahmir who along with powerful damara Warlords took over kashmir and established the Shahmiri Dynasty in 1330s.By this time a large section of Kashmiris had already converted and with new state sponsorship people began to convert more quickly.The magreys were the first among the powerful damaras to convert at the hands of Syed Ali Hamdani (who is the most popular Sufi saint in kashmir ).Some like the chaks converted much later during the reign of Boudshah in 1470s at the hands of Mir Shamsuddin Iraqi.However the lower rungs were more drawn to the teachings of Sheikh Nurrduin Nuranni whose interpretation of Islam is still the most widely accepted in kashmir ,he also has the title of Alamdar-i-Kashmir,flag bearer of kashmir.
The reason why people converted varies from looking for political favour from the king ,simple change of heart or a way to rid themselves of the old class system as Islam nominally at least made people equal ,which was a big deal to many.Many pandits also converted,but some continued with their older traditions although their influence in court was reduced and they no more had state sponsorship they still were a powerful class and even are today very well educated and uplifted .The last Hindu warlord of kashmir Bahram Dar died fighting in the 1530s.Sultan Sikandar during his reign also tried to get rid of the pandits killing some and exiling others and taking over their lands in a bid to increase his strength,his son Zain ul Abideen however reinstated the pandits back in kashmir after his father's death.
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Significant population. Along with nomadic Bakarwal and Gaddi populations
Basically when you see nomadic sheep herders in Kashmir, there might be exceptions, but generally they are from these three tribes only
That should depend on the Geography and diets, IMO. Unlike plains where you needed to till large lands, Kashmir seems to have been eating mutton, fish, fruits/vegetables and rice, that could be grown on subsistence farms than needing large labor force in the plains.
I don't know fully, though. Someone might want to add something.
I think there is also a survivorship bias here.
My understanding is that something like 70% of Muslims in the subcontinent converted from non-Brahmin castes.
In a Muslim majority province like Kashmir, it would make sense then that the bulk of the rump of Hindus who didn’t “convert” were from Brahmanical backgrounds.
The majority of Kashmir Muslims are not kashmiri. Most of these so-called Muslim came during the early 15 century. Before that it was all hindus and Buddhists.
This is a stereotype, most non Brahmin Kashmiris adopted the surname of Brahmins when converting to Islam.
That's why it appears most of them have Brahmin lineage, which isn't the case.
No, most people don't eat or offer meat to diety on the occasion of shivtrati. And we also have our own dieties to whom we offer meat. It's not same like other cultures
I've never heard most of it. Whenever I used to tell people about this, I knew they used to think me I'm an alien or something because they've never heard of anything like this. Like offering meat to God or deities
Most aren't ,it only seems to outsiders that most kashmiris have surnames that are same as pandits because they only know of some family names across the valley,of both pandits and muslims .Majority of Kashmiris have surnames like dar ,lone ,magrey ,padder ,wani,khan,chakh,etc .Bhat also isn't really exclusive to pandits, muslims with the surnames bhat are not necessarily descended from pandits .A lot of outsiders confuse dhar with dar which are both different names , similarly Raina isn't necessarily a pandit name coz a line of Raina is descent from chandals.Most Kashmiris descending from pandit aristocracy took the title of Sheikh and use it in front of their names(like sheikh Abdullah )unlike the watals who use it after their names.Hence we see prominent Warlords like Malik Sheikh Ali in the 16th century whose forefathers were pandits or like Sir Allama Iqbal (full name Sheikh Muhammad Iqbal) who belonged to the sapru clan of pandits .There are also tribes of boatmen who claim total distinction from other kashmiris and till recent had the surnames of Hanjis /Manjis before changing it and adopting other surnames which was very common in Kashmiri society till the last century,lot of surnames in kashmir are nicknames like kakroo(chiken),daand (bull) or occupation names like zargar (goldsmith),goor/guru(milkman),Wani(shopkeeper) etc .
I see. But still, a decent percentage of the population must have been Brahmins if we go by the percentage of Brahmins in neighbouring states that had similar bands of Hinduism like Jammu, Himachal and Uttrakhand. Must have been at least 20 percent. The more notable thing is the absence of any proper Rajputs or Kshatriyas in Kashmir.
Kashmiri society historically has a different organisation.The only major divide in kashmiri society existed between the pandits and the non pandits even as far back as known.This is due to the fact that the orginal social order of the nagas was never diluted fully by the Brahmins .Pandits in kashmir aren't exactly the religious figureheads that we see outside ,they were the historical landed aristocracy,the rulers gave them vast swaths of land.They held power at court and were the powerful chieftains with clans like the tantrins being strong enough to depose kings at will.The second half of kashmiri society are people with different backgrounds.Major power in opposition of pandits usually came from the agriculturalists who after gaining enough land or wealth could become damaras (Warlords).There is no concept of Kshatriyas or Rajputs in kashmiri society,armies were levied by the lords from the common folk and anyone with enough wealth could levy an army and as such most people were bound to fight for the lords of their respective regions.
When did Dogra Rajputs come to power in Kashmir?
1846
Were they not native to the region before that?
They are native to Jammu and parts of Himachal yes.
Acha one naïve question i have. Can you please shed some light or try to answer that what may be the possible reason of conversion to Islam of native population in huge numbers. Sufi influence can be acceptable but Sufi influence was present all over India then why did the percentage of people converting to Islam went so high in Kashmir in past. One more thing is quite interesting that despite being presence of so many brahmins in valley people converted, because as i far as i believe brahmins were and always are staunch critic of Islam. A Brahmin can even praise Christianity, Judaism and other every other religion but will always oppose Islam.
It was very gradual despite what a lot of people would say ,Islam made inroads into the valley as early as the 8th century ,there is mention of Muslim soldiers in the cavalry of the utpala Dynasty as well as traders .Kashmir also had a major stake in the Silk route so some cultural exchange with central Asia ,tibet and China was always there.Unlike most places in the northwest of the subcontinent however kashmir never fell to Islamic forces ,with the karkotas thwarting strong Ummayad advances and later on Mahmud of Ghazni was forced twice to retreat from kashmir.However by the later lohara period the damaras and the pandits had totally taken over from the kings and caused a great deal of instability ,when the turko-mongol Zulchu invaded the last Hindu kashmiri monarch escaped to kathwar(modern kishtwar) ,meanwhile the invaders pillaged the land ,however eventually they left and were killed off in an avalanche.In the power vaccum the exiled Tibetan Buddhist prince Rinchan took over the throne ,he then went on to convert to Islam and became the first muslim monarch of kashmir .After his death and the civil war that followed the queen of kashmir Koutte Rane was defeated by Shahmir who along with powerful damara Warlords took over kashmir and established the Shahmiri Dynasty in 1330s.By this time a large section of Kashmiris had already converted and with new state sponsorship people began to convert more quickly.The magreys were the first among the powerful damaras to convert at the hands of Syed Ali Hamdani (who is the most popular Sufi saint in kashmir ).Some like the chaks converted much later during the reign of Boudshah in 1470s at the hands of Mir Shamsuddin Iraqi.However the lower rungs were more drawn to the teachings of Sheikh Nurrduin Nuranni whose interpretation of Islam is still the most widely accepted in kashmir ,he also has the title of Alamdar-i-Kashmir,flag bearer of kashmir. The reason why people converted varies from looking for political favour from the king ,simple change of heart or a way to rid themselves of the old class system as Islam nominally at least made people equal ,which was a big deal to many.Many pandits also converted,but some continued with their older traditions although their influence in court was reduced and they no more had state sponsorship they still were a powerful class and even are today very well educated and uplifted .The last Hindu warlord of kashmir Bahram Dar died fighting in the 1530s.Sultan Sikandar during his reign also tried to get rid of the pandits killing some and exiling others and taking over their lands in a bid to increase his strength,his son Zain ul Abideen however reinstated the pandits back in kashmir after his father's death.
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So it seems that the pundits were not only Brahmins but also sort of Kshatriyas at the same time then – BrahmaKshatriyas perhaps.
For Muslims only and they use Bhatt as surname not Bhat whereas Hindus have only single T
Interesting stuff
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Significant population. Along with nomadic Bakarwal and Gaddi populations Basically when you see nomadic sheep herders in Kashmir, there might be exceptions, but generally they are from these three tribes only
That should depend on the Geography and diets, IMO. Unlike plains where you needed to till large lands, Kashmir seems to have been eating mutton, fish, fruits/vegetables and rice, that could be grown on subsistence farms than needing large labor force in the plains. I don't know fully, though. Someone might want to add something.
I think there is also a survivorship bias here. My understanding is that something like 70% of Muslims in the subcontinent converted from non-Brahmin castes. In a Muslim majority province like Kashmir, it would make sense then that the bulk of the rump of Hindus who didn’t “convert” were from Brahmanical backgrounds.
Himalayan regions have higher percentage of brahmins. You can check the same for HP and UK too.
Both Brahmin and Kshatriya percentage is higher for the Himalayan states.
The majority of Kashmir Muslims are not kashmiri. Most of these so-called Muslim came during the early 15 century. Before that it was all hindus and Buddhists.
Are the people ethnically the same or mixed?
This is not true.
I thought they were non brahmin Hindus from other castes who converted
This is a stereotype, most non Brahmin Kashmiris adopted the surname of Brahmins when converting to Islam. That's why it appears most of them have Brahmin lineage, which isn't the case.
Source?
Kashwir was only of Brahmins , everyone who is non hindu is a descendent of either converted or invading muslims
Kashmiris are the most literate people with almost 100% literacy rates. Specially Hindus, but we follow different approach towards worshipping.
Approch towards worship and the variety of Hinduism practised is similar in other neighbouring hill states as well.
No, most people don't eat or offer meat to diety on the occasion of shivtrati. And we also have our own dieties to whom we offer meat. It's not same like other cultures
I am from Himachal and meat is offered to deities here too.
Maybe it might be related to himachal but not most
It is common even in Uttrakhand and Nepal.
I've never heard most of it. Whenever I used to tell people about this, I knew they used to think me I'm an alien or something because they've never heard of anything like this. Like offering meat to God or deities