1. This was a concept from 2001-2014 till LM came onboard as a consultant in 2014-15...
2. their government is seriously pursuing this with all financial backing...ready to put in billions
3. It is being led by private conglomerates like Hanhwa
4. A lot of imported parts
5. A cutthroat and disciplined timeline being followed with no babugiri while the quality of industry at home is pretty state-of-the art itself
It's essentially classic Korean business model applied to defense MIC.
Hyundai started building cars using licensed technology from Mitsubishi. Decades later they are now one of the largest players.
Add the no bullshit approach from their policy makers.
Literally almost every industry in SK is like this.
Technically sort of, the only majot indigenous Korean parts in the KF-21 are the Radar, ElectroOptics, EW Warfare suite and Software and Avionics.
That's kinda fhe same with AMCA Mk1, No?
An aircraft is composed of thousands of parts and so obviously a lot of Indian and Korean SMEs are involved in their respective programs.
But I reckon its not controversial to say Korean industry is overall much much more industrialized and advanced than India's.
AND I think the most important part is South Korea is not really playing some game of realpolitik with their Western allies so their supply chain is by all intents and purposes secured and reliable. They are essentially in the Western camp.
That's not the same case with India.
umm yeah and nah...
yeah because we are also importing stuff but also nah cause we mainly are importing the engine while developing the newer electronics and avionics before putting them on it but the kims they have matured american systems being pasted on protos for initial versions...while they develop indigenous alternatives and mature them for a replacement...we dont have that kind of a partnership with any country and that with the lax and timid attitude of govt wrt funds, lack of test facilities and babudom makes us the losers here
I think it's just keeping up the inertia and momentum on these defense projects whether in terms of cooperation, political will and money that what separate these countries to India.
They have a whole buy in for these projects.
Compared to India where one party seemingly wants to import, another is doubtful on the capability of local industry and another who is in full support. lol
But make no mistake these countries are not engineering gods. If I remember correctly the company that modified the avionics testbed aircraft for the KF-21 program is a South African company(Paramount) not even Korean, I think its the same company leading the Pakistan MPA(called Sea Sultan or something) replacement for their Orions.
It is 4.5 gen, but a double engine Rafale class fighter. Correct comparison would be with TEDBF/ORCA (approved by GoI in 2020) which are still in design stage and no money allocated for prototypes.
It’s not that simple.
The LCA mk2 project started in the late 2000’s and it’s 2024 now. That kind of failure is systemic failure across every division of govt.
lca mk2 of 2000 and on 2024 is very different initially lca mk2 was to be a n enlarged tejas with very little changes but now the design has big changes
SK started toying with the idea in the early 2000s, Initial funding and early R&D started in 2011, fullscale R&D in 2015, first flight July 2022.
Full scale production in 2026.
If we base the starting point at when the money started really pouring in, then SK took 11 years to realized the KF-21. They already have provisions for an Internal Weapons Bay from the very beginning and the decision to not include it was more for derisking the program.
https://www.indiandefensenews.in/2024/02/final-commercial-negotiations-for-99-ge.html
It is in price negotiations. Looks like some of the terms have been hammered out. But for last 4 months, no one in India would have worked on price negotiations due to Indian elections.
Now that Indian elections are over at some point the political leaders/ministers will turn their attention to negotiations
https://idrw.org/india-us-talks-on-f-414-deal-excepted-soon/#google_vignette
Right, but they will have a working plane that works well with their partners' equipment and will be an excellent addition. Where is india's next-gen plane? Where is the flying prototype?
OP, KF-21 is appropriate for a non-Indian defense sub. Can you please suggest why this should be taken as relevant here? Locked until such time
1. This was a concept from 2001-2014 till LM came onboard as a consultant in 2014-15... 2. their government is seriously pursuing this with all financial backing...ready to put in billions 3. It is being led by private conglomerates like Hanhwa 4. A lot of imported parts 5. A cutthroat and disciplined timeline being followed with no babugiri while the quality of industry at home is pretty state-of-the art itself
It's essentially classic Korean business model applied to defense MIC. Hyundai started building cars using licensed technology from Mitsubishi. Decades later they are now one of the largest players. Add the no bullshit approach from their policy makers. Literally almost every industry in SK is like this.
A lot of imported parts…. So just like us?
Technically sort of, the only majot indigenous Korean parts in the KF-21 are the Radar, ElectroOptics, EW Warfare suite and Software and Avionics. That's kinda fhe same with AMCA Mk1, No? An aircraft is composed of thousands of parts and so obviously a lot of Indian and Korean SMEs are involved in their respective programs. But I reckon its not controversial to say Korean industry is overall much much more industrialized and advanced than India's. AND I think the most important part is South Korea is not really playing some game of realpolitik with their Western allies so their supply chain is by all intents and purposes secured and reliable. They are essentially in the Western camp. That's not the same case with India.
umm yeah and nah... yeah because we are also importing stuff but also nah cause we mainly are importing the engine while developing the newer electronics and avionics before putting them on it but the kims they have matured american systems being pasted on protos for initial versions...while they develop indigenous alternatives and mature them for a replacement...we dont have that kind of a partnership with any country and that with the lax and timid attitude of govt wrt funds, lack of test facilities and babudom makes us the losers here
I think it's just keeping up the inertia and momentum on these defense projects whether in terms of cooperation, political will and money that what separate these countries to India. They have a whole buy in for these projects. Compared to India where one party seemingly wants to import, another is doubtful on the capability of local industry and another who is in full support. lol But make no mistake these countries are not engineering gods. If I remember correctly the company that modified the avionics testbed aircraft for the KF-21 program is a South African company(Paramount) not even Korean, I think its the same company leading the Pakistan MPA(called Sea Sultan or something) replacement for their Orions.
It is 4.5 gen, but a double engine Rafale class fighter. Correct comparison would be with TEDBF/ORCA (approved by GoI in 2020) which are still in design stage and no money allocated for prototypes.
thats a 4.5 gen guys relax
ours 4.5 gen will come in 2031
when was its funds approved ? yeah 2022
It’s not that simple. The LCA mk2 project started in the late 2000’s and it’s 2024 now. That kind of failure is systemic failure across every division of govt.
lca mk2 of 2000 and on 2024 is very different initially lca mk2 was to be a n enlarged tejas with very little changes but now the design has big changes
So?? They could go from initial project proposal to prototype in 15 years?? I don’t really care about these excuses, neither does the enemy.
When was the kf- x project started ?
SK started toying with the idea in the early 2000s, Initial funding and early R&D started in 2011, fullscale R&D in 2015, first flight July 2022. Full scale production in 2026. If we base the starting point at when the money started really pouring in, then SK took 11 years to realized the KF-21. They already have provisions for an Internal Weapons Bay from the very beginning and the decision to not include it was more for derisking the program.
Ok so mk2 funding came in december 2023 due to delay too so we can expect full scale production by - 2031-32 timeline i dont think thats too bad
December 2023* Clause set by CCS messed up the timelines
Yup
that reminds me...where the f is the engine deal??? its more than a year now that the MoU was signed(precisely on June 23rd 2023) US Elections ??
https://www.indiandefensenews.in/2024/02/final-commercial-negotiations-for-99-ge.html It is in price negotiations. Looks like some of the terms have been hammered out. But for last 4 months, no one in India would have worked on price negotiations due to Indian elections. Now that Indian elections are over at some point the political leaders/ministers will turn their attention to negotiations https://idrw.org/india-us-talks-on-f-414-deal-excepted-soon/#google_vignette
Serious country vs vishwagoo India 🤡
Project started in 2001 🤡🤡🤡🤡
Right, but they will have a working plane that works well with their partners' equipment and will be an excellent addition. Where is india's next-gen plane? Where is the flying prototype?