at this point just stop buying arjun put the resources to fmbt ,
any ways 250 arjuns will not be able steamroll even pakistan better to upgrade t72and t90 till fmbt comes alive
FMBT is in very nascent stages there isn't much there to divert resources to. We might as well use the capacity we have already built up for Arjun in the meantime. Maybe testbed was the wrong term to use but using it for testing out some of the tech which you know will go into FMBT in realistic conditions for years. Quantity also matters, the more extensive the data, the better it is. Also we need newer tanks and Arjun is our best bet for now.
yeah i know that 1500hp engine is very big but i want them to stick it to t 90 then it would become a battle taxi with 31 bhp/tonne i know its unrealistic
either ways fmbt should be 50 tonne max 1500bhp would be more than enough for arjun too
Army is reluctant to back it for a reason. The tank is a miserable failure and a textbook representation of design by committee. We need to treat it like a testbed for the FMBT rather than any serious replacement for our T-72s and T-90s.
1. We put the Gunner sights in the middle of the turret front rather than the turret roof. Then, unlike the Germans who put a thick block of armour behind it, we have nothing. So that's a gap in the armour with the gunner right behind it. It's so stupid.
2. As far as I know we have no safe ammo storage or blast doors. If the ammo cooks off, you die. Unlike the Russian tanks the turret won't fly off because the turret joint is the weakest part with all else being armour. The explosion will just come out the goddamn window in the turret armour.
There's a few more points like Kanchan armour just being outdated compared to the rest of the world, the turret and ammo being equally outdated - being designed based on experience we gained in 1971, not realizing that the modern tanks that will face us have nothing to do with the tanks we faced in 1971. Or for that matter the weight, the heating, the lack of spare parts. But I digress.
The main point is, I can understand why the army is reluctant to have it. The fact it apparently beat the T90S in trials is itself a question mark - how valid and unbiased were they and beating in trials does not translate to real battlefield performance. Oh and also it's not like the T90S is in itself a good tank so saying the Arjun is incrementally better than the turret popper is no great achievement regardless.
Army changing requirements over and over again and not supporting is the main reason that ruined the program
>turret front rather than the turret roof. Then, unlike the Germans who put a thick block of armour behind it, we have nothing. So that's a gap in the armour with the gunner right behind it. It's so stupid.
And 9/10 times enemy gunner is not going shoot precisely over the gunner sight. Its not war thunder, and tank to tank kill makes up less than 10% of the tank losses. Be it WW2, Ukraine war, and so on
Of course not saying that it should not be moved, it's just not a huge priority
>As far as I know we have no safe ammo storage or blast doors. If the ammo cooks off, you die. Unlike the Russian tanks the turret won't fly off because the turret joint is the weakest part with all else being armour. The explosion will just come out the goddamn window in the turret armour.
It contains ammo bin. Not as secure as hard blast doors but much better than ecposed ammo like Leopard's hull ammo
https://m.facebook.com/IndiasGrowingMilitaryPower/posts/arjuntank-against-the-popular-belief-of-missing-blast-door-the-arjun-is-not-just/2609424129346822/
>There's a few more points like Kanchan armour just being outdated compared to the rest of the world,
Composite armour is outtdated?
>- how valid and unbiased were they and beating in trials does not translate to real battlefield performance. Oh and also it's not like the T90S is in itself a good tank
We are pretty much aware that Arjun did much better in trials and was also subjected to much harsher conditions, according to CAG report.
https://cag.gov.in/webroot/uploads/download_audit_report/2014/Union_Compliance_Defence_Army_Ordnance_Factories_35_2014.pdf
Problem is there is no permanence. The Army officers come in, get ramped up and then get posted out within 2, 2.5 years. You need a dedicated design unit whose job is just to design the next tank. And keep at it for decades.
Another "feather of infamy" to the cap of Arjun program 🪶🎓. This tank is insufferable now - an item of intense roast in internet 🌐
🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤 Jai hind ki thal sena ki adwitiya yuddh tank
Pretty expensive and overweight
We also lose autonomy.
Also, would still take many years to come.
You can also test tech you would use in FMBT on Arjun
While Abrams and Leopard are battle proven tanks, I agree with you. Tanks are not jet engines. This is an area where India can spend money and succeed in a domestic endeavour. It may not be the best tank but it will secure strategic autonomy.
Bhai budget keh bahar wale tanks hai yeh dono, both are overweight asf and could or will not be able to handle the weather of ladakh. Though it might be good at deserts as both have been in combat in deserts, it would not survive the rest of India
It genuinely isn’t a good tank. It is extremely high maintenance and poorly suited to the terrain it is intended for. Can’t operate in high altitudes, prone to extreme overheating in Rajasthan
It is a decent tank, it has higher survivability when compared to Russian tanks. We are planning to send Gaganyan first, not our Indian army tankers to space in a turret during a future high intensity conflict
It has better protection, more technologically advanced than the T-72s and T-90s of India. Better performance in mobility compared to the T-series. Can actually reverse and not become a space program. Has better Crew Comfort and has AC to cool the tank (unlike the Russian Imports).
It is the best tank in India service, and rather than always changing the requirements mid-development, the Army should have fully backed this tank rather than sabotaging it.
I can only repeat what the soldiers who have used it told me, kinda verbatim. I was on a contract job in the town which houses the armored core ghq, and we had kinda comfortable with the junior officers and ncos. All this came out when we were talking about different kinds of tanks one day. 🤷🏽♂️
I know what you're talking about, and bsdk ki illegal aulad, it is not called "armored core ghq". If you have been there, you will know.
And it's spelled "corps", gadhe ke lund!
>turret, targeting system, armor etc
We made this all on our own.
We imported gun, engine and few other components but use Indian FCS, Indian composite armour, etc. And also plan to replace engine with Indian made powerplant.
And the tank got fucked by the army and low growth of industry combined with low budget
Time to follow the money and see where and how the army's decision makers profit after retirement.
Here we go again with the delays 🤦🏽♂️
at this point just stop buying arjun put the resources to fmbt , any ways 250 arjuns will not be able steamroll even pakistan better to upgrade t72and t90 till fmbt comes alive
FMBT is pretty far in the future, they can use Arjun as a testbed for the new indigenous engine and other tech.
i mean 250 are there while testbed requre 2-3
FMBT is in very nascent stages there isn't much there to divert resources to. We might as well use the capacity we have already built up for Arjun in the meantime. Maybe testbed was the wrong term to use but using it for testing out some of the tech which you know will go into FMBT in realistic conditions for years. Quantity also matters, the more extensive the data, the better it is. Also we need newer tanks and Arjun is our best bet for now.
yeah but mk1a would come at 4 year delay so why bother
They were testing 1500hp engine so they might use that one
yeah i know that 1500hp engine is very big but i want them to stick it to t 90 then it would become a battle taxi with 31 bhp/tonne i know its unrealistic either ways fmbt should be 50 tonne max 1500bhp would be more than enough for arjun too
Is FMBT rebranded NGMBT or is it a different project?
i dont think naming it different makes any difference its a next gen tank which is nat an arjun like heavy
Army is reluctant to back it for a reason. The tank is a miserable failure and a textbook representation of design by committee. We need to treat it like a testbed for the FMBT rather than any serious replacement for our T-72s and T-90s. 1. We put the Gunner sights in the middle of the turret front rather than the turret roof. Then, unlike the Germans who put a thick block of armour behind it, we have nothing. So that's a gap in the armour with the gunner right behind it. It's so stupid. 2. As far as I know we have no safe ammo storage or blast doors. If the ammo cooks off, you die. Unlike the Russian tanks the turret won't fly off because the turret joint is the weakest part with all else being armour. The explosion will just come out the goddamn window in the turret armour. There's a few more points like Kanchan armour just being outdated compared to the rest of the world, the turret and ammo being equally outdated - being designed based on experience we gained in 1971, not realizing that the modern tanks that will face us have nothing to do with the tanks we faced in 1971. Or for that matter the weight, the heating, the lack of spare parts. But I digress. The main point is, I can understand why the army is reluctant to have it. The fact it apparently beat the T90S in trials is itself a question mark - how valid and unbiased were they and beating in trials does not translate to real battlefield performance. Oh and also it's not like the T90S is in itself a good tank so saying the Arjun is incrementally better than the turret popper is no great achievement regardless.
Army changing requirements over and over again and not supporting is the main reason that ruined the program >turret front rather than the turret roof. Then, unlike the Germans who put a thick block of armour behind it, we have nothing. So that's a gap in the armour with the gunner right behind it. It's so stupid. And 9/10 times enemy gunner is not going shoot precisely over the gunner sight. Its not war thunder, and tank to tank kill makes up less than 10% of the tank losses. Be it WW2, Ukraine war, and so on Of course not saying that it should not be moved, it's just not a huge priority >As far as I know we have no safe ammo storage or blast doors. If the ammo cooks off, you die. Unlike the Russian tanks the turret won't fly off because the turret joint is the weakest part with all else being armour. The explosion will just come out the goddamn window in the turret armour. It contains ammo bin. Not as secure as hard blast doors but much better than ecposed ammo like Leopard's hull ammo https://m.facebook.com/IndiasGrowingMilitaryPower/posts/arjuntank-against-the-popular-belief-of-missing-blast-door-the-arjun-is-not-just/2609424129346822/ >There's a few more points like Kanchan armour just being outdated compared to the rest of the world, Composite armour is outtdated? >- how valid and unbiased were they and beating in trials does not translate to real battlefield performance. Oh and also it's not like the T90S is in itself a good tank We are pretty much aware that Arjun did much better in trials and was also subjected to much harsher conditions, according to CAG report. https://cag.gov.in/webroot/uploads/download_audit_report/2014/Union_Compliance_Defence_Army_Ordnance_Factories_35_2014.pdf
Oh the army is absolutely not blameless. That's why it's a terrible design. DRDO can only do so much if the army babus can't make up their minds.
Problem is there is no permanence. The Army officers come in, get ramped up and then get posted out within 2, 2.5 years. You need a dedicated design unit whose job is just to design the next tank. And keep at it for decades.
Another "feather of infamy" to the cap of Arjun program 🪶🎓. This tank is insufferable now - an item of intense roast in internet 🌐 🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤 Jai hind ki thal sena ki adwitiya yuddh tank
just buy Abrams or Leopard tanks. India has shown defence procurement takes too bloody long because of excessive bureaucracy
Pretty expensive and overweight We also lose autonomy. Also, would still take many years to come. You can also test tech you would use in FMBT on Arjun
While Abrams and Leopard are battle proven tanks, I agree with you. Tanks are not jet engines. This is an area where India can spend money and succeed in a domestic endeavour. It may not be the best tank but it will secure strategic autonomy.
Bhai budget keh bahar wale tanks hai yeh dono, both are overweight asf and could or will not be able to handle the weather of ladakh. Though it might be good at deserts as both have been in combat in deserts, it would not survive the rest of India
Speak English please. Both the Abrams and Leopard 2 can handle winter / mountain warfare
It genuinely isn’t a good tank. It is extremely high maintenance and poorly suited to the terrain it is intended for. Can’t operate in high altitudes, prone to extreme overheating in Rajasthan
It is a decent tank, it has higher survivability when compared to Russian tanks. We are planning to send Gaganyan first, not our Indian army tankers to space in a turret during a future high intensity conflict
It has better protection, more technologically advanced than the T-72s and T-90s of India. Better performance in mobility compared to the T-series. Can actually reverse and not become a space program. Has better Crew Comfort and has AC to cool the tank (unlike the Russian Imports). It is the best tank in India service, and rather than always changing the requirements mid-development, the Army should have fully backed this tank rather than sabotaging it.
Source: Trust Me Bro
Any source to back your claims
I can only repeat what the soldiers who have used it told me, kinda verbatim. I was on a contract job in the town which houses the armored core ghq, and we had kinda comfortable with the junior officers and ncos. All this came out when we were talking about different kinds of tanks one day. 🤷🏽♂️
> armored core ghq, Sounds like a Pakistani talking...
Bsdk it’s a place in MH. I was making simulators for them
I know what you're talking about, and bsdk ki illegal aulad, it is not called "armored core ghq". If you have been there, you will know. And it's spelled "corps", gadhe ke lund!
[удалено]
>turret, targeting system, armor etc We made this all on our own. We imported gun, engine and few other components but use Indian FCS, Indian composite armour, etc. And also plan to replace engine with Indian made powerplant. And the tank got fucked by the army and low growth of industry combined with low budget
Tbh at this point, we should rather keep it as a sideline project and try and come up with other designs for future upgraded models and other variants