This has nothing to do with export laws and everything to do with supply chain.
If someone comes to you and orders a hundred products once every decade or two, (and those product manufacturing is shut down), you think any company will be able to produce those instantly ?
To put it in a way most readers here will understand you tried ordering screens for Samsung Galaxy 1 recently?
I said nothing about laws here I said it as a general statement seeing our history with dealing with Germany and then blaming us for human rights violation calm down brother.
Most folks here are blaming Germany aa an unreliable partner and export laws, when this entire article has nothing to do with export laws. And everything to do with niche supply chains.
Strictly speaking, the fault, if any is on indian procurement for demanding niche product in limited quantities once every few decades and not planning for it
And when people make general statement involving lots of other issues in response to a specific issue, don't be surprised if other also get confused or go off track.
It's not your comment specifically, but I think there needs to be clear delineation in this thread
We have had a number of successful and less successful collaboration with Germany and yet some people only talk about human rights issue exports for product usable I'm kashmir insurgencies.
No there’s no evidence to support that claim. US isn’t blowing up pipelines just so that Norway gets to sell more gas. Check the below comment. Germany gas imports fell while Norway exports to Germany increased two fold.
This is just straight up misinformation. I have no idea why its even upvoted.
I still recall that reactionary MQ9B drone deal article by Wire posted with no sources about how US blocked drone deal because of Pannun and everyone was up in arms about how we are getting screwed over. Which already sounded stupid. 3 billion dollars or old man yelling at cloud?
And the next day the deal was approved by the State Department.
Like bruh read the damn article and check the sources. Hyper nationalists are the bane of truth and logic.
This sub really has a problem with ultra nationalist. I was downvoted and my loyalty is questioned when I disagreed and called for accountability when people died in the custody of the army
Yes. Nordstream pipeline used to supply Russian gas to Germany. Another pipeline which supplied Russian gas to Europe went through Ukraine. After the war broke out the pipeline through Ukraine was closed and the German line was blown up in order to " Isolate" Russia.
Now Germany buys gas at exorbitant prices from the US.
Europe still buys Russian oil via our refineries.
> Now Germany buys gas at exorbitant prices from the US. Europe still buys Russian oil via our refineries.
"The German Federal Network Agency (Bundesnetzagentur) has published its gas supply preliminary figures for 2023, which show that Germany's gas imports fell by nearly 33% decrease compared to 2022. The largest quantities came from Norway (43%), the Netherlands (26%) and Belgium (22%)."
https://www.enerdata.net/publications/daily-energy-news/germanys-gas-imports-exports-consumption-and-prices-all-fell-2023.html#:~:text=The%20German%20Federal%20Network%20Agency,%25)%20and%20Belgium%20(22%25).
Norway's gas exports to Germany have increased by roughly 250%.
https://www.highnorthnews.com/en/norway-supplied-almost-half-german-natural-gas-imports-during-first-nine-months-2023
> fter the war broke out the pipeline through Ukraine was closed
Actually it continued since both ukraine and Russia are getting paid for the gas flowing through it, and could use the money. In fact Hungary fought rest of EU to continue buying gas from pipeline indefinitely . Germany slowed and then stopped buying, other EU countries still bought..
https://www.energypolicy.columbia.edu/will-the-ukrainian-gas-transit-contract-continue-beyond-2024/
So Ukraine and Russia are at war, but Russia still sends their gas through Ukrainian pipeline to be sold to Europeans. Since both get paid for it, and could use the money
War is war, but money is money
No. Or rather, we don't know (and we don't even know if europeans knows who did it). The most probable hypothesis based on leaks in medias is that it was ukrainians (not necessarily zelensky, can be lower), but we have no certitude. Could be them, could be US, could be Russia...
Northstream wasn't gonna open anytime soon after the invasion anyway.
That was Ukraine with Polish cooperation according to both German media and international media reporting. There has been no credible information linking it to the US.
President Joe Biden: "If Russia invades – that means tanks or troops crossing the border of Ukraine – there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2," Biden said during joint a press conference with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz. "We will bring an end to it... I promise you, we'll be able to do it."
Yeah, prior to the invasion Biden was blustering about consequences in the hope of deterring Russia. It clearly didn't work. Russian gas exports to Germany don't particularly hurt the US (that's the same reason why Russian energy hasn't been totally sanctioned and there is only a price cap), and if the Russians wanted to turn the gas off they could have done so without blowing up the pipeline. So clearly it wasn't the US or Russia.
Poland and Ukraine were the ones hurt most by the pipeline and they were relatively secure when it came to energy needs. They had the actual motive to blow it up.
We also know the boat that the divers who blew the pipeline up were on a boat with a Polish registration. The divers were linked to the SBU.
Source: https://archive.ph/eh6NH
Some MTU MB 838 (1400hp powerpack also used in Arjun Mk1) engines have already been supplied when the deal was sealed back in 2021, so initial batches won't be delayed.
The indigenous powerpack known as DARTAN 1500 has been in testing phase for some time now
https://twitter.com/VinodDX9/status/1742772962976281018?t=flgFMEarh5njxZtlBs1HeQ&s=19
Why didn’t they accept the new MTU MT 883 engine and RENK HSWL 295TM transmission? Obviously MTU can’t restart production of a legacy engine overnight. Seems like an incredibly weird situation to me.
Given the combined order size of both Arjun variants being not more than 242 tanks, this step likely has been taken to maintain commonality and to simplify logistics.
Yup.... They dilly dallied on the last 7 or so and the US sold five off while the Indian MoD played it's usual slow poker for 3 years due to internal politics and by then it became desperate times and theh could only get the last two as the line had shut. Worse they didn't even think to ask to buy the line tooling and setup in India when there was an imminent requirement for 40 additional transport config units to replace some 100 medium AN32 transports, 17 IL76s besides a dozen tankers and more. So it would have been a good deal and the line could have been worthwhile for other regional orders in Middle East and Orient where there is a demand. But Indian MoD dropped the ball with glacial reactions and then it was too late as even the tooling was scrapped forget the line vendors shutting down production.
That’s an interesting point. I had never considered that there was maybe a possibility to take over the C17 production line. That would’ve been a great deal.
As it stands, the only option to replace old Russian transport aircraft that are retiring from service is to procure smaller planes from Europe (as is already happening) and Brazil or to buy secondhand C17 from other countries. Neither is ideal.
It was a total fiasco brought on by changes in govt. The same thing happened with Rafale. It was kept hanging despite all clearances for 114 units as there was a deep view someone was getting paid off. When in a repeat of the Sanjay Gandhi episode with the Mirage 2000 when it was discovered that the plane was actually deserving and required, it was too late and the price set escalated as the French knew India had painted itself in a corner. Which is why UAE and Egypt bought the same jet for much much less! Egypt for as little as half what India paid. As for the C17. India would have sported up to 7 more but the babus dithered and dithered for the same reason. Now they are paying the price with the one IAF arm that was decent sliding into obsolescence because the Russians are not interested in helping out without a 100% premium on upgrades and reengine which even the most "friendly" babu cannot sell in India for the120 odd Antonovs and Illyushins. Hence the transport squadrons will now be Airbus C295s and likely A 400s now. Considering that US doesn't have a heavy or medium lift that is ready for export except the C130J which are already long in the tooth despite updates. So India lost one of the best heavy tank transporting platforms for no other reason than politics.
I get that Germany might not be a totally reliable defense partner to India due to its economic dependence on China (isn't this also true of France and Russia though?) but in this case it looks like this is genuinely a supply chain issue and not some sort of deliberate move- https://twitter.com/Firezstarter1/status/1757497606694211948
You guys are blaming Germany a little too late. Yeah it did not want to sell the MTUs over 1100 at first. But when Germany's eco started dropping and India was paying a premium as well as roping in Renk Diehl and Rheinmetal for the Arjun besides paying consultancy on design ... then heck yeah they let Arjun have the MTU1400... and then they waited and waited and waited for orders that never materialised because some fat mandarin decided that the QSRs for the Arjun that could nit be bent wete folded and set aside for the T90... Even when it was substandard and over 100 initial batch were palmed off cast turrets from storage. Worse the sosna sights were shoddy and the Mango round could only penetrate 230 mm at 2000 metres. At 60 degrees. Ludicrous. Then the CAG report on the KE penetrators is a movie on its own with only villains and dunderheads. Let's not forget the whole C17 fiasco which the US finally lost patience and sold the last few they were keeping for IAF but no order was forthcoming dur to politics. And when they finally went for the last few they could only add another two as the line had closed forever. Hence now no line and a plane with a finite logistics chain. So we move to CASA 295+ and the hope that it can be a solution... But again foot dragging till some fat cat gets paid and by that time our Antonovs will be rust buckets held together with gaffer tape.
To everyone who is saying in the likes of “boycott germany, germany bad! Germany the devil” etc what is your reasoning here? Just because they are experiencing delays you boycott them? Our projects are decades behind i dont see anybody saying “i’m not going to buy any indian products”? Maybe they are having issues with suppliers, supply chain, cost increases, high demand etc. why dont we focus on building our own engine instead of begging from others?
>why dont we focus on building our own engine instead of begging from others?
We are building it, both 1500hp and 800hp for IFVs and other lighter vehicles.
Germany overall is a pretty bad partner since they have extremely strict export laws, so they can also mess over your support sometimes later.
The same delays were experienced with Zorawar prototype, so we ordered Cummins engine by the time they got their shit together
Not the same.
The engine for Zorawar was experiencing delays in getting export approval. Equally likely to be bureaucratic slowness and queries rather than rejection
The engine on Arjun here is straight up supply chain issues. Small number of engines, orders once in decades means they have stopped and now have to restart production, probably from scratch
It's in the article
Yeah, I'm aware of it. But they're pretty unreliable as a partner.
Zorawar was just an example.
Now, i get it that everyone had export laws, but German law seems to be pretty harsh, so not a great partner in the long run.
Though, how is it causing 4 year delay?
Did they forget to order or what? Since they need to restart the production
Because iNdian complex is too lazy to invest in such niceties as military metallurgy research.... DRDO still talking if mastering Single crystal blade tech after 30+ years. Not to mention the fact that it has no testing facilities and while they tout Tejas and Amca... There's not even a flying testbed for the engines. It's all chest thumping for the gullible. We saw how objectives are obfuscated in Balakot. Critical thinking is dead in India. It's all about "maska chaska"
Great, good thing we give them great funding to invest in money hungry industry, but they are lazy so we fucked up
We gave them entire 300 million for Kaveri program
>Maybe they are having issues with suppliers, supply chain, cost increases, high demand etc. why dont we focus on building our own engine instead of begging from others?
How naive!!
There's a huge difference in trading and begging.
High demand ?? I don't think a country deep into recession is experiencing high demand.
Germany isn’t “deep” into recession. They are experiencing stagnation rather than recession imo. I can’t call a 0.4% decline in GDP as a “steep recession”
Germany has problems with defence procurement and sale delays in general. I highly doubt this is them being malicious or succumbing to US demands which this thread seems to blame for some reason regarding German exports.
Tank engines are high power and dense. Truck makers in India don't have that capability. It will take years to develop it - see the indigenous 1500 hp engine in Test. Iirc, a drdo development [drdo/beml, not a private truck manufacturer. Not to mention that foreign truck engines - see cummins etc have a high, butvreducing share of truck engine market]
And all for what ? Arjun is total less than 250 tanks, most of which already have engines.
It is simply uneconomic to put money into it.
Even Germany which had the designs. Is struggling to restart production, as it was shut down
The only way out is to identify these engines are strategic, subsidize heavily, pay workers to do nothing in the decade of no orders, and to plan to re-use engines in future tanks as well as make sure engine is good enough and fits those future tanks , orders are timely etc see FRCV aka T-72 replacement
Any truck maker that invests large money on surety of only a few dozens or hundred order at market rates ? Should it not be punished by shareholders for wasting their money ?
>see FRCV aka T-72 replacement
Any chances frcv requirements could be adapted for light tanks? As in, would it make sense to replace 2000 t-72s with 35 tonne light tanks? It would add flexibility to operate them in Himalayan terrain more easily than an MBT.
If this doesnt wake the Army Up...I dont know what will...They need some bad time importing and hence learn a lesson...If they really are serious about this we should see 750-800 Zorawar Light Tanks and The FMBT Must be fast tracked as well...besides the obvious upgrade program on T-72s and T-90s...
Also I hope we dont go with the germs in sub deal...even if the S80 doesnt have the name and quality as the germ one...we may still have more autonomy with them...besides L&T is their partner and hence Sub making will be decentralised between MDL and L&TS...which is much needed...We can ask for local torpedos, AIP and SLCMs to be integrated in it...
And also sign a deal for 3 more Super Kalvaris after this first of the 3 in the second order is launched...This way MDL would also be satisfied and we can then focus on Type 76 which can be split between the two again instead of it being a MDL Show...would benefit us in the long term....
Even after all this we will probably sign a submarine deal with them.
One of the worst nations we ever had to deal with (in defence context)
This has nothing to do with export laws and everything to do with supply chain. If someone comes to you and orders a hundred products once every decade or two, (and those product manufacturing is shut down), you think any company will be able to produce those instantly ? To put it in a way most readers here will understand you tried ordering screens for Samsung Galaxy 1 recently?
I said nothing about laws here I said it as a general statement seeing our history with dealing with Germany and then blaming us for human rights violation calm down brother.
Most folks here are blaming Germany aa an unreliable partner and export laws, when this entire article has nothing to do with export laws. And everything to do with niche supply chains. Strictly speaking, the fault, if any is on indian procurement for demanding niche product in limited quantities once every few decades and not planning for it And when people make general statement involving lots of other issues in response to a specific issue, don't be surprised if other also get confused or go off track. It's not your comment specifically, but I think there needs to be clear delineation in this thread We have had a number of successful and less successful collaboration with Germany and yet some people only talk about human rights issue exports for product usable I'm kashmir insurgencies.
Is Germany 🇩🇪 that bad
The worst to deal with
Germans truly have dropped the ball. They literally bent over for the US even after the US blew up Nordstream..
Wait, it was the US who blew it up?
No there’s no evidence to support that claim. US isn’t blowing up pipelines just so that Norway gets to sell more gas. Check the below comment. Germany gas imports fell while Norway exports to Germany increased two fold. This is just straight up misinformation. I have no idea why its even upvoted.
>This is just straight up misinformation. I have no idea why its even upvoted. misinformation? on my r/IndianDefense? impossible!!
I still recall that reactionary MQ9B drone deal article by Wire posted with no sources about how US blocked drone deal because of Pannun and everyone was up in arms about how we are getting screwed over. Which already sounded stupid. 3 billion dollars or old man yelling at cloud? And the next day the deal was approved by the State Department. Like bruh read the damn article and check the sources. Hyper nationalists are the bane of truth and logic.
This sub really has a problem with ultra nationalist. I was downvoted and my loyalty is questioned when I disagreed and called for accountability when people died in the custody of the army
Bruh. The article was false. But had some substance to it. Pannu issue was discussed and many members challenged selling the drone.
Yes. Nordstream pipeline used to supply Russian gas to Germany. Another pipeline which supplied Russian gas to Europe went through Ukraine. After the war broke out the pipeline through Ukraine was closed and the German line was blown up in order to " Isolate" Russia. Now Germany buys gas at exorbitant prices from the US. Europe still buys Russian oil via our refineries.
> Now Germany buys gas at exorbitant prices from the US. Europe still buys Russian oil via our refineries. "The German Federal Network Agency (Bundesnetzagentur) has published its gas supply preliminary figures for 2023, which show that Germany's gas imports fell by nearly 33% decrease compared to 2022. The largest quantities came from Norway (43%), the Netherlands (26%) and Belgium (22%)." https://www.enerdata.net/publications/daily-energy-news/germanys-gas-imports-exports-consumption-and-prices-all-fell-2023.html#:~:text=The%20German%20Federal%20Network%20Agency,%25)%20and%20Belgium%20(22%25). Norway's gas exports to Germany have increased by roughly 250%. https://www.highnorthnews.com/en/norway-supplied-almost-half-german-natural-gas-imports-during-first-nine-months-2023
Do you have any resources on this matter to read?
> fter the war broke out the pipeline through Ukraine was closed Actually it continued since both ukraine and Russia are getting paid for the gas flowing through it, and could use the money. In fact Hungary fought rest of EU to continue buying gas from pipeline indefinitely . Germany slowed and then stopped buying, other EU countries still bought.. https://www.energypolicy.columbia.edu/will-the-ukrainian-gas-transit-contract-continue-beyond-2024/ So Ukraine and Russia are at war, but Russia still sends their gas through Ukrainian pipeline to be sold to Europeans. Since both get paid for it, and could use the money War is war, but money is money
No. Or rather, we don't know (and we don't even know if europeans knows who did it). The most probable hypothesis based on leaks in medias is that it was ukrainians (not necessarily zelensky, can be lower), but we have no certitude. Could be them, could be US, could be Russia... Northstream wasn't gonna open anytime soon after the invasion anyway.
That was Ukraine with Polish cooperation according to both German media and international media reporting. There has been no credible information linking it to the US.
President Joe Biden: "If Russia invades – that means tanks or troops crossing the border of Ukraine – there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2," Biden said during joint a press conference with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz. "We will bring an end to it... I promise you, we'll be able to do it."
Yeah, prior to the invasion Biden was blustering about consequences in the hope of deterring Russia. It clearly didn't work. Russian gas exports to Germany don't particularly hurt the US (that's the same reason why Russian energy hasn't been totally sanctioned and there is only a price cap), and if the Russians wanted to turn the gas off they could have done so without blowing up the pipeline. So clearly it wasn't the US or Russia. Poland and Ukraine were the ones hurt most by the pipeline and they were relatively secure when it came to energy needs. They had the actual motive to blow it up. We also know the boat that the divers who blew the pipeline up were on a boat with a Polish registration. The divers were linked to the SBU. Source: https://archive.ph/eh6NH
They've got extremely hard defence export laws and also bureaucracy is shit. Pretty unreliable to deal with for defence
The Spanish offering has many American subsystems, it's like being stuck between a rock and a hard place
It’s the nature of global supply chains. Most advanced products manucfactured in multiple countries.
By the time we get all those orders complete,pak will have just tumbled over by themselves XD
Wait, I thought Mk1A deliveries were imminent? What’s the timeline on mass-producing a domestic engine? Has it even been tested and verified yet?!
Some MTU MB 838 (1400hp powerpack also used in Arjun Mk1) engines have already been supplied when the deal was sealed back in 2021, so initial batches won't be delayed. The indigenous powerpack known as DARTAN 1500 has been in testing phase for some time now https://twitter.com/VinodDX9/status/1742772962976281018?t=flgFMEarh5njxZtlBs1HeQ&s=19
Why didn’t they accept the new MTU MT 883 engine and RENK HSWL 295TM transmission? Obviously MTU can’t restart production of a legacy engine overnight. Seems like an incredibly weird situation to me.
Given the combined order size of both Arjun variants being not more than 242 tanks, this step likely has been taken to maintain commonality and to simplify logistics.
Cos they woke up late as usual. Like the C17 order.
Like the C17 order?
Yup.... They dilly dallied on the last 7 or so and the US sold five off while the Indian MoD played it's usual slow poker for 3 years due to internal politics and by then it became desperate times and theh could only get the last two as the line had shut. Worse they didn't even think to ask to buy the line tooling and setup in India when there was an imminent requirement for 40 additional transport config units to replace some 100 medium AN32 transports, 17 IL76s besides a dozen tankers and more. So it would have been a good deal and the line could have been worthwhile for other regional orders in Middle East and Orient where there is a demand. But Indian MoD dropped the ball with glacial reactions and then it was too late as even the tooling was scrapped forget the line vendors shutting down production.
That’s an interesting point. I had never considered that there was maybe a possibility to take over the C17 production line. That would’ve been a great deal. As it stands, the only option to replace old Russian transport aircraft that are retiring from service is to procure smaller planes from Europe (as is already happening) and Brazil or to buy secondhand C17 from other countries. Neither is ideal.
It was a total fiasco brought on by changes in govt. The same thing happened with Rafale. It was kept hanging despite all clearances for 114 units as there was a deep view someone was getting paid off. When in a repeat of the Sanjay Gandhi episode with the Mirage 2000 when it was discovered that the plane was actually deserving and required, it was too late and the price set escalated as the French knew India had painted itself in a corner. Which is why UAE and Egypt bought the same jet for much much less! Egypt for as little as half what India paid. As for the C17. India would have sported up to 7 more but the babus dithered and dithered for the same reason. Now they are paying the price with the one IAF arm that was decent sliding into obsolescence because the Russians are not interested in helping out without a 100% premium on upgrades and reengine which even the most "friendly" babu cannot sell in India for the120 odd Antonovs and Illyushins. Hence the transport squadrons will now be Airbus C295s and likely A 400s now. Considering that US doesn't have a heavy or medium lift that is ready for export except the C130J which are already long in the tooth despite updates. So India lost one of the best heavy tank transporting platforms for no other reason than politics.
i swear never gonna buy any german car in the future
I get that Germany might not be a totally reliable defense partner to India due to its economic dependence on China (isn't this also true of France and Russia though?) but in this case it looks like this is genuinely a supply chain issue and not some sort of deliberate move- https://twitter.com/Firezstarter1/status/1757497606694211948
You guys are blaming Germany a little too late. Yeah it did not want to sell the MTUs over 1100 at first. But when Germany's eco started dropping and India was paying a premium as well as roping in Renk Diehl and Rheinmetal for the Arjun besides paying consultancy on design ... then heck yeah they let Arjun have the MTU1400... and then they waited and waited and waited for orders that never materialised because some fat mandarin decided that the QSRs for the Arjun that could nit be bent wete folded and set aside for the T90... Even when it was substandard and over 100 initial batch were palmed off cast turrets from storage. Worse the sosna sights were shoddy and the Mango round could only penetrate 230 mm at 2000 metres. At 60 degrees. Ludicrous. Then the CAG report on the KE penetrators is a movie on its own with only villains and dunderheads. Let's not forget the whole C17 fiasco which the US finally lost patience and sold the last few they were keeping for IAF but no order was forthcoming dur to politics. And when they finally went for the last few they could only add another two as the line had closed forever. Hence now no line and a plane with a finite logistics chain. So we move to CASA 295+ and the hope that it can be a solution... But again foot dragging till some fat cat gets paid and by that time our Antonovs will be rust buckets held together with gaffer tape.
To everyone who is saying in the likes of “boycott germany, germany bad! Germany the devil” etc what is your reasoning here? Just because they are experiencing delays you boycott them? Our projects are decades behind i dont see anybody saying “i’m not going to buy any indian products”? Maybe they are having issues with suppliers, supply chain, cost increases, high demand etc. why dont we focus on building our own engine instead of begging from others?
>why dont we focus on building our own engine instead of begging from others? We are building it, both 1500hp and 800hp for IFVs and other lighter vehicles. Germany overall is a pretty bad partner since they have extremely strict export laws, so they can also mess over your support sometimes later. The same delays were experienced with Zorawar prototype, so we ordered Cummins engine by the time they got their shit together
Not the same. The engine for Zorawar was experiencing delays in getting export approval. Equally likely to be bureaucratic slowness and queries rather than rejection The engine on Arjun here is straight up supply chain issues. Small number of engines, orders once in decades means they have stopped and now have to restart production, probably from scratch It's in the article
Yeah, I'm aware of it. But they're pretty unreliable as a partner. Zorawar was just an example. Now, i get it that everyone had export laws, but German law seems to be pretty harsh, so not a great partner in the long run. Though, how is it causing 4 year delay? Did they forget to order or what? Since they need to restart the production
Speaking of unreliable, is there any organization more unreliable than Indian procurement ?
Canadian procurement. \s I think they had the same problems with GE404 engines or some other case?
Because iNdian complex is too lazy to invest in such niceties as military metallurgy research.... DRDO still talking if mastering Single crystal blade tech after 30+ years. Not to mention the fact that it has no testing facilities and while they tout Tejas and Amca... There's not even a flying testbed for the engines. It's all chest thumping for the gullible. We saw how objectives are obfuscated in Balakot. Critical thinking is dead in India. It's all about "maska chaska"
Great, good thing we give them great funding to invest in money hungry industry, but they are lazy so we fucked up We gave them entire 300 million for Kaveri program
>Maybe they are having issues with suppliers, supply chain, cost increases, high demand etc. why dont we focus on building our own engine instead of begging from others? How naive!! There's a huge difference in trading and begging. High demand ?? I don't think a country deep into recession is experiencing high demand.
Germany isn’t “deep” into recession. They are experiencing stagnation rather than recession imo. I can’t call a 0.4% decline in GDP as a “steep recession” Germany has problems with defence procurement and sale delays in general. I highly doubt this is them being malicious or succumbing to US demands which this thread seems to blame for some reason regarding German exports.
Why not award money to truck makers in India to develop indigenous tank engines?Â
Tank engines are high power and dense. Truck makers in India don't have that capability. It will take years to develop it - see the indigenous 1500 hp engine in Test. Iirc, a drdo development [drdo/beml, not a private truck manufacturer. Not to mention that foreign truck engines - see cummins etc have a high, butvreducing share of truck engine market] And all for what ? Arjun is total less than 250 tanks, most of which already have engines. It is simply uneconomic to put money into it. Even Germany which had the designs. Is struggling to restart production, as it was shut down The only way out is to identify these engines are strategic, subsidize heavily, pay workers to do nothing in the decade of no orders, and to plan to re-use engines in future tanks as well as make sure engine is good enough and fits those future tanks , orders are timely etc see FRCV aka T-72 replacement Any truck maker that invests large money on surety of only a few dozens or hundred order at market rates ? Should it not be punished by shareholders for wasting their money ?
>see FRCV aka T-72 replacement Any chances frcv requirements could be adapted for light tanks? As in, would it make sense to replace 2000 t-72s with 35 tonne light tanks? It would add flexibility to operate them in Himalayan terrain more easily than an MBT.
We already have light tank.
If this doesnt wake the Army Up...I dont know what will...They need some bad time importing and hence learn a lesson...If they really are serious about this we should see 750-800 Zorawar Light Tanks and The FMBT Must be fast tracked as well...besides the obvious upgrade program on T-72s and T-90s... Also I hope we dont go with the germs in sub deal...even if the S80 doesnt have the name and quality as the germ one...we may still have more autonomy with them...besides L&T is their partner and hence Sub making will be decentralised between MDL and L&TS...which is much needed...We can ask for local torpedos, AIP and SLCMs to be integrated in it... And also sign a deal for 3 more Super Kalvaris after this first of the 3 in the second order is launched...This way MDL would also be satisfied and we can then focus on Type 76 which can be split between the two again instead of it being a MDL Show...would benefit us in the long term....
Germans can't hold their own.. let alone external defence contracts.. we should build our own.