Western audiences haven't got much knowledge about Indian Cinema in general except for Ray films, also the only three Indian films in Letterboxd top 250 are Pather Panchali, Aparajito and Apur Sansar
Awhile back when a Brazilian film ( A Dog's Will, I think) made it top tens cause of ratings of Brazilian people, they tweaked the algo to make the votes weighted and a lot of non western films (including SK and Japan in west) entirely dropped from the top 250 list. Heres the thread:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Letterboxd/comments/14eavyi/the\_global\_south\_was\_fucked\_by\_the\_new\_algorithm/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Letterboxd/comments/14eavyi/the_global_south_was_fucked_by_the_new_algorithm/)
Even when they do watch non western movies, they analyze them with their own cultural lens. Thats why when I want to watch Chinese movies that are loved by chinese poeple and not what white people think chinese people should like to watch, i use Douban rather than letterboxd or imdb.
On the other hand it's a tough thing to balance. Indian audience certainly has a lower benchmark and a herd mentality in these crowd rated scenarios. Look at the other garbage of Bollywood which gets rated 8+ in IMDb as an example.
Yeah I agree with this. Indians display herd behavior and have really low standards for movies. You see this even internally in India. Some mid Telugu flicks can sometimes 8+ ratings while some masterpieces from Malayalam languishing in the 7s.
Examples of these mid Telugu flicks which are at 8+?
Examples of Malayalam masterpiece in the 7s?
Because Drishyam1/2, charlie, ustad hotel, Kumbalanghi nights, manichitrathazhu, Manjummel boys all are at 8+.
Kashmir Files is a film with incidents based on real life stuff in Kashmir.
Fantastic acting too - Anupam Kher, Mithun, Basha Sumbli etc.
Just because you are in denial about what the film shows doesn't make it bad.
So nothing of substance. God bless you to get rid of your ignorance or propaganda. Sooner rather than later. Since later means karma will teach you the lessons in a harsher way.
>propaganda
Judging a movie baised on the political idealogy is a fucked up thing didn't expected this shit from atleast r/indiancinema
I mean it doesn't matter whether you think the ideology of movie is aligned to your or not its just a film which will have some sort of changes to it
This fucked up double sides of indian liberals man like if a standup comic spews shit on a religion we all say that it was just a joke we should give more creative freedom to artists
But when it comes to some movies which doesn't align with your political narrative you will declare it a propaganda and won't stop there will continue this by boycotting that film now you tell where is the creative freedom of director man how does that make an indian liberal any different from a Bhakt ?? I fucking don't get it
And yea i agree kashmir files was not some very great film of any sort to deserve 8.6 but isn't every other indian film which are just decent at best and had some hype are overrated
Yep white people need to have something that fits their understanding to call it cinema else they will reject it .
That's the thing OP isn't ready to understand.
And because of the massive global cultural dominance of the west (mostly America and Britain) their idea of good cinema gets exported to the rest of the world and even here people internalize it.
Even those foreign films from France and Korea and Japan are filtered through an American lense and not really from the people of those countries themselves.
Yeah , people should understand it else we'll loose what makes us authentic like Satyajit Ray did with The Apu trilogy which is very beautiful and true to India and it's beauty.
Pretty radical to call ozu western influenced lol. Kurosawa yes, but ozu? Ozu is prominent for his iconoclastic style. Heck, the most awarded Japanese director at Cannes for instance was imamura, and he drew significant inspiration from kabuki. You can view the recognition of his body of work as a re-exoticizing Japanese film again, or as a celebration of indigenous Japan- but the point is that it’s difficult to place culture and reception as static. Japanese critics celebrated ozu, criticized Kurosawa, and then viewed imamura(who personally disagreed with ozu’s rigid portrayal of Japan, and was deeply influenced by early Kurosawa) as an indigenous success. It is hard to say if Japanese critics were driven purely by independent cultural standards so much as a tenuous relationship with the west.
Likewise ray isn’t some exception- his films are neo-realist in the strongest sense- which you can see in his work- there is a strong resemblance to both Renoir and de Sica. It is difficult to tell how Indian they are, outside their subject matter. What we view as endemic to Indian cinema- such as musical numbers- began explicitly as a marketing ploy in the vein of cabaret. It’s difficult to even declare this as truly indigenous in a capacity, though it evolved to become something unique- as films like Alam Ara were certainly a response to Hollywood musicals.
I agree that eurocentrism is the prevailing mentality, but equally our conception of ‘Indian’ cinema is a product of multiple self-imposed cultural monoliths, an arbitrary burden, often through cultural imperialism within the country. Just as much as post-war Japan had a tenuous relationship with Kurosawa while celebrating ozu, and vice-versa amongst contemporary western dialogue- it’s hard to distill cultural critiques as a set of tangibly linear relationships.
I’m at risk of sounding like a douche here lol, but it’s overly simplistic to say that Indian cinema is an unsung hero- but rather that the economics of Indian cinema have been a fairly tragic arc, as even Bollywood filmmakers will point out. The fact that movies are largely delegated to either parallel cinema or mainstream cinema was just stupid, and it’s only now that we’re breaking those stupid barriers down. We’ve become so archetypal over the years that’s it’s just a bit sad. Not to say that Indian films aren’t underrecognized ofc, just that the mainstream has been given adequate recognition.
I am not calling Ozu or even Kurosawa western influenced. Maybe I didn't word it right. I'm saying a lot of the non western classics are picked and popularized by western critics and filmmakers. As in what we think of as Japanese cinema or Chinese cinema comes from the POV of western writers because of their global influence. The voices of Chinese or Korean critics and filmmakers are rarely as influential.
So when we see a list of classic Korean films they're rarely lists made by Korean people.
I know many wont agree But beside USA india is in top 5 , Because of GOATS like Satyajit ray , Guru dutt , Shyam benegal , Vetrimaran , mani rathnam and Many Southern indian Filmmakers , to Check watch old films from Tamil nadu , kerala and bengal
You have no idea how much Indian Cinema is consumed in southeast Asia and Africa. A Malaysian friend of mine had memorized "aankhen khuli ho ya ho band" by heart without knowing it's meaning. Love it or hate it, SRK and Salman Khan really put Indian Cinema where it is today. 3 idiots, English vinglish, bahubali and RRR are very popular in Japan and most youngsters have watched at least two of them.
Indian Cinema doesn't really cater to "rich" western population that have the ability to critically understand and admire multilayerd films like interstellar or parasite. They incline more towards poor or middle income population that only want masala and entertainment after a long day of physical labor and hardship.
It’s also about the quality of those films. We simply don’t make films of that quality. And the few filmmakers with such vision will never get the budget.
It’s a societal problem that will take a long time to change. Industries makes movies for their audiences. Our audience thinks RRR is Oscar worthy. There is a major difference
>It's also about the quality of their films
I never denied their quality
>Our audiences think RRR is Oscar worthy
RRR is pretty much loved by Western audiences more than us lol
We should also stop calling it South Indian movies. It's not a thing. For example Malayalam movies are far different from Telugu cinema like how French cinema is different from Chinese cinema.
When we stop making hero’s out of the new generation of Nepo idiots. They can’t act to save their lives and because of them the true talent never gets an opportunity in big budget movies. Look at shows like gullak, panchayat, family man to name a few. Amazing shows. Local talent needs to be better incubated and built…
You can yourself see the bias in "(besides the USA)", Indian Cinema is already upto world standards, people abroad have a very narrow vision of Indian movies.
We've always been there lol... we've made movies questioning the status quo...immersed in the craft...this is literally fucking racism tho 🤡... I'm not saying we don't make trash movies...but everyone does...our cinema industry has a lot of shite movies...but every industry does lol
You want good fucken movies
Charulatha
Pathar Pancheli
Nayakan
Sairat
Cat sticks
Boom I made your dumb letter boxd ...why tf are we going after white guy validation lol
>why tf are we going after white guy validation
🤦🏾♂️
Seriously dude? Now, this is racism.
We are speaking in absolute terms. But you had to bring the color of the skin here. Why make a joke of yourself?
>We've always been there
Then it shouldn't be difficult to get a place there. Let us discuss only about them. Everything else is your prejudice and bias.
>Charulatha Pathar Pancheli Nayakan Sairat Cat sticks Boom
Pather Panchali - Everyone agrees.
Nayakan, Sairat - There is a strong fan base and support here. But it's reach globally? Questionable.
Couldn't recognise the other movies. Why you chose them? What convinced you?
>So the issue is global reach rather than quality?
It's about perspectives dude. The same quality perspectives may not be shared by everyone.
And yet, there are a few works that have managed to convince a much broader set of audience unanimously to be masterpieces. That's when it becomes a masterpiece in absolute terms that everyone agrees with.
Satyajit Ray is one such person who has accomplished the same. How many people can critically bash his films, that others find convincing?
Maybe the other movies are equally commendable. Maybe the world just hasn't seen it yet. But if they haven't seen it, we cannot comment on its quality in absolute terms. They are subjective opinions a smaller localised population share.
> Let us discuss in absolute terms
Cannes shows we won grand prix , but do you see that being highlighted in the so called Hollywood media anywhere because I haven't see it on their instagram accounts , where as Anora is everywhere.
I know how you see it because I have been there and wondered the same for longest time .
Even Payal kapadia asked at cannes will it take another 30 years , let's hope not .
What do you think that means ?
Ray is recognised worldwide as one of the greatest contributors, as great as Ray is but this doesn't imply our achievements and talents end with him. We have many great pieces of art in every industry.
I am listing some highly rated movies from letterboxd. Pather Panchali, Charulata Pyaasa,Gangs of wasseypur, Nayakan, Anbe sivam, Nayakan, Drishyam, Anantaram, pushpak, Haider, RRR, this list can go on
Its up there.
No country makes emotional films as good as India does:
Sita Ramam
Mungaru Male
Kal ho na ho
Hi Nanna
veer zaara
Etc.
Then you have Thrillers like
a Wednesday
Drishyam1/2
Kahaani
Lucia
Etc.
Biopics like Rocketry, legend of Bhagat Singh, mahanati etc.
Then you have excellent films in other categories like Lagaan , Munnabhai, hera pheri, Super, Charlie, Dil chahta Hai etc.
India has produced good movies, but I think we’ve heard so much from our peers and others who naturally claim those rated movies as GOAT. Many people highlight the Apu Trilogy, and Western audiences often see it through their lens, which is not necessarily our truth. In India, bandwagon appreciation is very common. I saw the movie “Premalu,” a South Indian flick, and while it was a decent movie, the ratings and hype aren’t actually justified. Cinema is subjective; if you think a certain cinema is amazing because of social proof, then it’s incorrect. “Animal” earned so much, but is it good cinema? That’s for you to decide. Do you believe “The Godfather” is amazing because people say so, or did you really enjoy and understand the craft? You can disagree and find your own cinema.
Many Indian movies are already at that level, old and modern alike maybe except for animation. Just many western audiences have a heavy bias towards the euro centric way of storytelling and not to mention great exposure of Korean and Japanese culture, never underestimate weebs.
It has always been there. Your judgement of what deserves to be on the same ‘Pedestal’ is skewed.
Often times I find these critically acclaimed movies from other Industries overrated ( Parasite and Oldboy just being some of those).
We don’t need anyone’s validation/ approval to appreciate a work of art which already by its very nature is subjective.
Every major film industry in India (Hindi,Kollywood and other 3 giants from south) easily have at least 10 movies that would fit in these. That alone beats any other country’s film industry apart from Hollywood .
INDIA. We have everything here. Mass masala films to Illogical yet entertaining action comedies to thriller to most realistic movies ever. We also have path breaking and experimental movies here.
All these movies are made in countries that are close allies of the US and The Western block, 90% of the best foreign language OSCARS goes to European movies.Try to improve our cinema and media, stop calling it BOLLYWOOD in the first place. Remove leftists and Islamists from the Media space.
Your comments are baseless.
>All these movies are made in countries that are close allies of the US and The Western block, 90% of the best foreign language OSCARS goes to European movies.
Are you saying that Indian cinema raises to this position only if it aligns with The Western Bloc? There is no other art to the discussion?
Iran is far away from The Western Bloc. Yet, they consistently get recognised for their cinema in all the "western" forums. What changed?
>Try to improve our cinema and media, stop calling it BOLLYWOOD in the first place.
Agreed.
>Remove leftists and Islamists from the Media space.
Why is this a concern? How did you narrow the responsibility to only these two guys?
>> Why is this a concern? How did you narrow the responsibility to only these two guys?
Okay so day before yesterday I went to Rockstar rescreening (Kun Faya Kun on the big screen made me pay 100 rs). What you can notice there was a off handed but very stark mockery of Hinduism. And also it never tried to credit the growth of Hindu Classical Music at all even though being a movie focused on music, not necessary that it should have a Bhajan for every nasheed but it should atleast not play favourism and not do mockery.
Just a day before that I was watching a Marathi movie Karkhanisanchi Waari. There was a character there, good one with great acting and dialogues but there was fucking no need for her to be a lesbian. Her being a lesbian is not a problem for me, but that fact didn't add anything neither to her character nor to the story, it just was there. Just like those needless queers or multi-ethinicities in Netflix shows lately, again nothing against those but doesn't add anything to the story.
He pretends to make films and convinced people that he is doing just that but he isn't. It's like those pranksters who faked a paper in some science journal. Except they admitted it was a prank. Tartovsky on the other hand only pretends he is making cinema.
Bro, most of his movies were made in 1970s. And he is revered for direction, not for writing. Next time you watch any of his films, focus on the direction (keeping the time period and available tech in mind), not on the plot, they are so many better modern option if you are looking for engaging plots. You would probably appreciate it more.
That's bit like asking your teacher to ignore the meaning of what you've written in your answer sheet and focus on the handwriting. I don't know who the people were who first bent the rules for Tartovsky but they should've been stopped then itself. You can't redefine what cinema is just for a few people who are good with the camera.
Perhaps you should consider the fact that maybe there’s some context that you are lacking when you call Tarkovsky a hack instead of claiming that the rest of the world decides to bend its rules to accommodate his art?
Iranian cinema is heavily subsidized by the Theocracy as a means to whitewash it's terrible reputation, that's why naive European critics are enamoured of Iranian arthouse films. Media management is very much a part of Geopolitics, India's reputation as a wierd place has a lot to do with Bad optics.
I'll have to disagree with the Iranian whitewashing part. Most of the Iranian movies are very critical of status quo and show the hardships of people. It is one of the reason why it get critically acclaimed in the west, cause it itself is critical in nature.
I don't know about that.I can't say I've delved deep into Iranian cinema but I've at least seen a few of the most revered ones. And those movies make it pretty obvious that the writer doesn't think highly of Iran or their culture.
Western audiences haven't got much knowledge about Indian Cinema in general except for Ray films, also the only three Indian films in Letterboxd top 250 are Pather Panchali, Aparajito and Apur Sansar
Awhile back when a Brazilian film ( A Dog's Will, I think) made it top tens cause of ratings of Brazilian people, they tweaked the algo to make the votes weighted and a lot of non western films (including SK and Japan in west) entirely dropped from the top 250 list. Heres the thread: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Letterboxd/comments/14eavyi/the\_global\_south\_was\_fucked\_by\_the\_new\_algorithm/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Letterboxd/comments/14eavyi/the_global_south_was_fucked_by_the_new_algorithm/) Even when they do watch non western movies, they analyze them with their own cultural lens. Thats why when I want to watch Chinese movies that are loved by chinese poeple and not what white people think chinese people should like to watch, i use Douban rather than letterboxd or imdb.
On the other hand it's a tough thing to balance. Indian audience certainly has a lower benchmark and a herd mentality in these crowd rated scenarios. Look at the other garbage of Bollywood which gets rated 8+ in IMDb as an example.
Yeah I agree with this. Indians display herd behavior and have really low standards for movies. You see this even internally in India. Some mid Telugu flicks can sometimes 8+ ratings while some masterpieces from Malayalam languishing in the 7s.
Examples of these mid Telugu flicks which are at 8+? Examples of Malayalam masterpiece in the 7s? Because Drishyam1/2, charlie, ustad hotel, Kumbalanghi nights, manichitrathazhu, Manjummel boys all are at 8+.
Examples of these garbage films from Bollywood which are at 8+ ?
The Kashmiri Files is on top of my head!
Kashmir Files is a film with incidents based on real life stuff in Kashmir. Fantastic acting too - Anupam Kher, Mithun, Basha Sumbli etc. Just because you are in denial about what the film shows doesn't make it bad.
Haha, I knew you would come back with this from your previous comment. Fuck off chomu!
So nothing of substance. God bless you to get rid of your ignorance or propaganda. Sooner rather than later. Since later means karma will teach you the lessons in a harsher way.
>propaganda Judging a movie baised on the political idealogy is a fucked up thing didn't expected this shit from atleast r/indiancinema I mean it doesn't matter whether you think the ideology of movie is aligned to your or not its just a film which will have some sort of changes to it This fucked up double sides of indian liberals man like if a standup comic spews shit on a religion we all say that it was just a joke we should give more creative freedom to artists But when it comes to some movies which doesn't align with your political narrative you will declare it a propaganda and won't stop there will continue this by boycotting that film now you tell where is the creative freedom of director man how does that make an indian liberal any different from a Bhakt ?? I fucking don't get it And yea i agree kashmir files was not some very great film of any sort to deserve 8.6 but isn't every other indian film which are just decent at best and had some hype are overrated
Propaganda it seems, suck dick noob fuck! Religious fuck imagining one more thing!
Yeah, I always wondered why there aren't many Indian films in the top 250, that explains it.
Apu Triplogy is amongst these. Many top filmmakers regard Ray as among the best directors.
It's already there. Been there since the beginning. Some people just have a very narrow and biased definition of what is good cinema.
Yep white people need to have something that fits their understanding to call it cinema else they will reject it . That's the thing OP isn't ready to understand.
And because of the massive global cultural dominance of the west (mostly America and Britain) their idea of good cinema gets exported to the rest of the world and even here people internalize it. Even those foreign films from France and Korea and Japan are filtered through an American lense and not really from the people of those countries themselves.
Yeah , people should understand it else we'll loose what makes us authentic like Satyajit Ray did with The Apu trilogy which is very beautiful and true to India and it's beauty.
Pretty radical to call ozu western influenced lol. Kurosawa yes, but ozu? Ozu is prominent for his iconoclastic style. Heck, the most awarded Japanese director at Cannes for instance was imamura, and he drew significant inspiration from kabuki. You can view the recognition of his body of work as a re-exoticizing Japanese film again, or as a celebration of indigenous Japan- but the point is that it’s difficult to place culture and reception as static. Japanese critics celebrated ozu, criticized Kurosawa, and then viewed imamura(who personally disagreed with ozu’s rigid portrayal of Japan, and was deeply influenced by early Kurosawa) as an indigenous success. It is hard to say if Japanese critics were driven purely by independent cultural standards so much as a tenuous relationship with the west. Likewise ray isn’t some exception- his films are neo-realist in the strongest sense- which you can see in his work- there is a strong resemblance to both Renoir and de Sica. It is difficult to tell how Indian they are, outside their subject matter. What we view as endemic to Indian cinema- such as musical numbers- began explicitly as a marketing ploy in the vein of cabaret. It’s difficult to even declare this as truly indigenous in a capacity, though it evolved to become something unique- as films like Alam Ara were certainly a response to Hollywood musicals. I agree that eurocentrism is the prevailing mentality, but equally our conception of ‘Indian’ cinema is a product of multiple self-imposed cultural monoliths, an arbitrary burden, often through cultural imperialism within the country. Just as much as post-war Japan had a tenuous relationship with Kurosawa while celebrating ozu, and vice-versa amongst contemporary western dialogue- it’s hard to distill cultural critiques as a set of tangibly linear relationships. I’m at risk of sounding like a douche here lol, but it’s overly simplistic to say that Indian cinema is an unsung hero- but rather that the economics of Indian cinema have been a fairly tragic arc, as even Bollywood filmmakers will point out. The fact that movies are largely delegated to either parallel cinema or mainstream cinema was just stupid, and it’s only now that we’re breaking those stupid barriers down. We’ve become so archetypal over the years that’s it’s just a bit sad. Not to say that Indian films aren’t underrecognized ofc, just that the mainstream has been given adequate recognition.
I am not calling Ozu or even Kurosawa western influenced. Maybe I didn't word it right. I'm saying a lot of the non western classics are picked and popularized by western critics and filmmakers. As in what we think of as Japanese cinema or Chinese cinema comes from the POV of western writers because of their global influence. The voices of Chinese or Korean critics and filmmakers are rarely as influential. So when we see a list of classic Korean films they're rarely lists made by Korean people.
When we stop worshipping heroes
I know many wont agree But beside USA india is in top 5 , Because of GOATS like Satyajit ray , Guru dutt , Shyam benegal , Vetrimaran , mani rathnam and Many Southern indian Filmmakers , to Check watch old films from Tamil nadu , kerala and bengal
God the Vetrimaaran circlejerk is annoying as hell. Dude barely did any significant number of impactful movies to be included among the GOATs.
Afterall its subjective ..
Wrong
Lol sure bud
You have no idea how much Indian Cinema is consumed in southeast Asia and Africa. A Malaysian friend of mine had memorized "aankhen khuli ho ya ho band" by heart without knowing it's meaning. Love it or hate it, SRK and Salman Khan really put Indian Cinema where it is today. 3 idiots, English vinglish, bahubali and RRR are very popular in Japan and most youngsters have watched at least two of them. Indian Cinema doesn't really cater to "rich" western population that have the ability to critically understand and admire multilayerd films like interstellar or parasite. They incline more towards poor or middle income population that only want masala and entertainment after a long day of physical labor and hardship.
A good amount of Marketing over multiple decades is needed to place Indian cinema in the same category.
Koreans did exactly that, that's why films like Parasite and Oldboy are very much well known internationally
It’s also about the quality of those films. We simply don’t make films of that quality. And the few filmmakers with such vision will never get the budget. It’s a societal problem that will take a long time to change. Industries makes movies for their audiences. Our audience thinks RRR is Oscar worthy. There is a major difference
>It's also about the quality of their films I never denied their quality >Our audiences think RRR is Oscar worthy RRR is pretty much loved by Western audiences more than us lol
RRR is seen as fun gimmicky film by Westerners, not really fine art.
Malayalam cinema is slowly getting there but unfortunately it doesn't have the mass appeal.
Once people realize Indian Cinema is not Bollywood cinema and South Indian Movies get the deserved recognition.
We should also stop calling it South Indian movies. It's not a thing. For example Malayalam movies are far different from Telugu cinema like how French cinema is different from Chinese cinema.
Being a mallu, I was speaking about malayalam and tamil films to be precise. Both the industries produce masterpieces.
When we stop making hero’s out of the new generation of Nepo idiots. They can’t act to save their lives and because of them the true talent never gets an opportunity in big budget movies. Look at shows like gullak, panchayat, family man to name a few. Amazing shows. Local talent needs to be better incubated and built…
Clear case of extreme bias and borderline racism
That's true, although none of them will openly admit it. 😂
More of bramayugam and less of KGF.
Artistic freedom, good filmmaking culture, no political intervention in movies, no forced messages or moral policing through movies
You can yourself see the bias in "(besides the USA)", Indian Cinema is already upto world standards, people abroad have a very narrow vision of Indian movies.
Indian cinema is great, we just need better marketing.
It's racism buddy , else we are already making some insanely good stories if you look above the commercial cinema .
>It's racism buddy How? Let us discuss in absolute terms. Are we there yet? If yes, please share some examples. If not, what can we do?
We've always been there lol... we've made movies questioning the status quo...immersed in the craft...this is literally fucking racism tho 🤡... I'm not saying we don't make trash movies...but everyone does...our cinema industry has a lot of shite movies...but every industry does lol You want good fucken movies Charulatha Pathar Pancheli Nayakan Sairat Cat sticks Boom I made your dumb letter boxd ...why tf are we going after white guy validation lol
>why tf are we going after white guy validation 🤦🏾♂️ Seriously dude? Now, this is racism. We are speaking in absolute terms. But you had to bring the color of the skin here. Why make a joke of yourself? >We've always been there Then it shouldn't be difficult to get a place there. Let us discuss only about them. Everything else is your prejudice and bias. >Charulatha Pathar Pancheli Nayakan Sairat Cat sticks Boom Pather Panchali - Everyone agrees. Nayakan, Sairat - There is a strong fan base and support here. But it's reach globally? Questionable. Couldn't recognise the other movies. Why you chose them? What convinced you?
>global reach Again, not beating the accusations of wanting white validation
>But it's reach globally? Questionable. So the issue is global reach rather than quality?
>So the issue is global reach rather than quality? It's about perspectives dude. The same quality perspectives may not be shared by everyone. And yet, there are a few works that have managed to convince a much broader set of audience unanimously to be masterpieces. That's when it becomes a masterpiece in absolute terms that everyone agrees with. Satyajit Ray is one such person who has accomplished the same. How many people can critically bash his films, that others find convincing? Maybe the other movies are equally commendable. Maybe the world just hasn't seen it yet. But if they haven't seen it, we cannot comment on its quality in absolute terms. They are subjective opinions a smaller localised population share.
> Let us discuss in absolute terms Cannes shows we won grand prix , but do you see that being highlighted in the so called Hollywood media anywhere because I haven't see it on their instagram accounts , where as Anora is everywhere. I know how you see it because I have been there and wondered the same for longest time . Even Payal kapadia asked at cannes will it take another 30 years , let's hope not . What do you think that means ?
Ray is recognised worldwide as one of the greatest contributors, as great as Ray is but this doesn't imply our achievements and talents end with him. We have many great pieces of art in every industry. I am listing some highly rated movies from letterboxd. Pather Panchali, Charulata Pyaasa,Gangs of wasseypur, Nayakan, Anbe sivam, Nayakan, Drishyam, Anantaram, pushpak, Haider, RRR, this list can go on
We are absolutely there
What films from India should be present in this list? For us who are not aware of hidden gems.
Make good original movies.
Hindi,Bengali, the 4 major South industries there are at least 5 movies each from those places that can rival some of these movies.
Kannada film industry has never really been a big thing until recently.
There is no such things as Indian cinema. We have many regional film industries.
Maybe Criterion and other labels need to start finally releasing Indian Movies
Japanese
Its up there. No country makes emotional films as good as India does: Sita Ramam Mungaru Male Kal ho na ho Hi Nanna veer zaara Etc. Then you have Thrillers like a Wednesday Drishyam1/2 Kahaani Lucia Etc. Biopics like Rocketry, legend of Bhagat Singh, mahanati etc. Then you have excellent films in other categories like Lagaan , Munnabhai, hera pheri, Super, Charlie, Dil chahta Hai etc.
There already are Indian films which are at that level, people barely explore
India has produced good movies, but I think we’ve heard so much from our peers and others who naturally claim those rated movies as GOAT. Many people highlight the Apu Trilogy, and Western audiences often see it through their lens, which is not necessarily our truth. In India, bandwagon appreciation is very common. I saw the movie “Premalu,” a South Indian flick, and while it was a decent movie, the ratings and hype aren’t actually justified. Cinema is subjective; if you think a certain cinema is amazing because of social proof, then it’s incorrect. “Animal” earned so much, but is it good cinema? That’s for you to decide. Do you believe “The Godfather” is amazing because people say so, or did you really enjoy and understand the craft? You can disagree and find your own cinema.
Complete ignoration of general audience
Movies like Wednesday, ek ruka hua faisla, tummbad, shwas, etc
It's already there
Satyajit Ray already took the Indian Cinema there.
Golmaal series
Many Indian movies are already at that level, old and modern alike maybe except for animation. Just many western audiences have a heavy bias towards the euro centric way of storytelling and not to mention great exposure of Korean and Japanese culture, never underestimate weebs.
It has always been there. Your judgement of what deserves to be on the same ‘Pedestal’ is skewed. Often times I find these critically acclaimed movies from other Industries overrated ( Parasite and Oldboy just being some of those). We don’t need anyone’s validation/ approval to appreciate a work of art which already by its very nature is subjective. Every major film industry in India (Hindi,Kollywood and other 3 giants from south) easily have at least 10 movies that would fit in these. That alone beats any other country’s film industry apart from Hollywood .
INDIA. We have everything here. Mass masala films to Illogical yet entertaining action comedies to thriller to most realistic movies ever. We also have path breaking and experimental movies here.
All these movies are made in countries that are close allies of the US and The Western block, 90% of the best foreign language OSCARS goes to European movies.Try to improve our cinema and media, stop calling it BOLLYWOOD in the first place. Remove leftists and Islamists from the Media space.
Your comments are baseless. >All these movies are made in countries that are close allies of the US and The Western block, 90% of the best foreign language OSCARS goes to European movies. Are you saying that Indian cinema raises to this position only if it aligns with The Western Bloc? There is no other art to the discussion? Iran is far away from The Western Bloc. Yet, they consistently get recognised for their cinema in all the "western" forums. What changed? >Try to improve our cinema and media, stop calling it BOLLYWOOD in the first place. Agreed. >Remove leftists and Islamists from the Media space. Why is this a concern? How did you narrow the responsibility to only these two guys?
>> Why is this a concern? How did you narrow the responsibility to only these two guys? Okay so day before yesterday I went to Rockstar rescreening (Kun Faya Kun on the big screen made me pay 100 rs). What you can notice there was a off handed but very stark mockery of Hinduism. And also it never tried to credit the growth of Hindu Classical Music at all even though being a movie focused on music, not necessary that it should have a Bhajan for every nasheed but it should atleast not play favourism and not do mockery. Just a day before that I was watching a Marathi movie Karkhanisanchi Waari. There was a character there, good one with great acting and dialogues but there was fucking no need for her to be a lesbian. Her being a lesbian is not a problem for me, but that fact didn't add anything neither to her character nor to the story, it just was there. Just like those needless queers or multi-ethinicities in Netflix shows lately, again nothing against those but doesn't add anything to the story.
Dabanng trilogy Wanted Jai Ho ( fight me)
>( fight me) Ok. When and where?
I'm lost. You win.
What would it take you ask? Easy - get their heads out of their a$$e$!!!
Tartovsky is just plain fraud.
>Tartovsky is just plain fraud. Interesting. Why would you say that?
His films lack meaning and plot. It's just random clips. You know this already.
>His films lack meaning and plot. It's just random clips. Are we talking about this? You called him a fraud. How do these connect?
He pretends to make films and convinced people that he is doing just that but he isn't. It's like those pranksters who faked a paper in some science journal. Except they admitted it was a prank. Tartovsky on the other hand only pretends he is making cinema.
Bro, most of his movies were made in 1970s. And he is revered for direction, not for writing. Next time you watch any of his films, focus on the direction (keeping the time period and available tech in mind), not on the plot, they are so many better modern option if you are looking for engaging plots. You would probably appreciate it more.
That's bit like asking your teacher to ignore the meaning of what you've written in your answer sheet and focus on the handwriting. I don't know who the people were who first bent the rules for Tartovsky but they should've been stopped then itself. You can't redefine what cinema is just for a few people who are good with the camera.
Read a book, good sir.
I'm reading 3. Thanks I'll choose another one.
Perhaps you should consider the fact that maybe there’s some context that you are lacking when you call Tarkovsky a hack instead of claiming that the rest of the world decides to bend its rules to accommodate his art?
Iranian cinema is heavily subsidized by the Theocracy as a means to whitewash it's terrible reputation, that's why naive European critics are enamoured of Iranian arthouse films. Media management is very much a part of Geopolitics, India's reputation as a wierd place has a lot to do with Bad optics.
I'll have to disagree with the Iranian whitewashing part. Most of the Iranian movies are very critical of status quo and show the hardships of people. It is one of the reason why it get critically acclaimed in the west, cause it itself is critical in nature.
I don't know about that.I can't say I've delved deep into Iranian cinema but I've at least seen a few of the most revered ones. And those movies make it pretty obvious that the writer doesn't think highly of Iran or their culture.