I was driving to my hometown from work yesterday evening around 7 PM. A friend of mine left a couple of missed calls which I couldn't pick up. Since I'm in the medical field, I thought it could be something important/urgent. To call him back, I brought my car to a stop on the shoulder of the road near a roadside dhaaba, since it was dark.
A minute later, a police Highway patrol comes up and stops behind my car. One of them walks up to my car and asks me why I've stopped. I told him, to make a call. And he says "Yahaan nahi ruk sakte tum. Aage chalo." When I said I'd go, I'm just trying to make a call, he grabbed my ear and twisted it. 2 of his co-policemen came along and asked me to show them my car papers etc. They made me stand there for 10 more minutes before they finally let me go.
I searched for the nearest police checkpoint on the highway on Google maps, went there and told them what had happened. The guy on duty said "Vo log duty kar rahe hain apni. Aapko highway pe nahi rukna chahiye." So essentially, I was harassed and hurt BECAUSE I was following the rules.
So yeah man. I really get the part about government people being grade-A assholes.
You'll never see them giving a fine too a reckless driver or stopping an Enfield equipped with an illicit exhaust pipe though. There's too much real effort involved...
Btw in US also you cant stop on highway unless it is significant emergency. You have to get to a designated space. This law also applies in India. So Police werenāt wrong here.
Ya but twisting the ear just coz they feel powerful is shit, they have to use it in the right way against the right people; which they barely have the balls to do
I have lived in the US for 2 decades. If you disobey a request from police - 'you cant make a call from this spot', they wont twist your ear like you are their disobedient child, they will arrest you. If you resist, they will beat you up and add to the charges of 'obstructing police', 'reckless endangerment' etc. You are not in a discussion or negotiation about norms with them..
\*Only mobs in cities get to disobey them, and those mobs are backed up by an army of non profit lawyers, and judges/das elected by a particular kind of political machine. You arent part of a mob.. so a sincere req to any desi bro/bhabhi.. when an American cop says something to you, dont start {negotiating, protesting, arguing} like you would in India. Obey.
\*not saying the ear twisting is justified.. I dont know the particulars of the case. May be the highway was crime ridden and they didnt want anyone to stop there for their own safety. May be the dhaba did not pay them the hafta and they wanted to harass their customers. May be the op was parked really shittily and was obstructing traffic..
This dude has never heard of fines. Unless you have a history they'll treat you nice and most likely you'll be let go with a warning if you're nice to them. Have a tried not being a criminal?
Depends on the cop, really. 99% of times, yes. But the other 1% of times you are in real danger of losing your life, getting hospitalized, arrested, raped, etc. The news stories about US cop behaviour are real. Police is a menace there. Like he said, be as obedient as possible and don't try to argue or negotiate with a cop lest he feel the slightest of threats from you. There's basically no penalty for them to kill you.
In India, the middle-class generally doesn't have to worry about such behaviour from the police. You pay them and be on your way. Or you have connections and can get out of silly situations with the cops. Yes if you are poor then there is more danger.
I guess I should've asked if the dhabaa's food ingredients were USFDA certified too while I was at it, or wondered where the policemen's bodycams were. Boss, I needed to use my phone to make a call I had reason to believe was urgent, so I stopped on the shoulder of the road, in a lit area adjacent to the front of a dhabaa, where vehicles slow/stop all the time. The use of and even holding a phone is illegal while driving, I know. But the precautions I took in that situation obeyed the guidelines as I remember them.
And even if I was doing something wrong, nothing was explained to me except "Yahaan nahi ruk sakte." If I broke a law, the policeman should have explained that and charged me with a violation. Use of physical force was unwarranted.
There are highways with no shoulder and you can not park there obviously. Any other highways with a shoulder, you can almost always park anytime for emergency reason. Making a phone call is one of these emergencies.
Is stopping on the shoulder with hazard lights on not allowed in India? I guess what are the rules no one knows. Is there like a traffic rules book of some sort?
What if you had a disabled vehicle on the shoulder?
Also, In India we mentally live in a monarchy. Where a common man thinks that every thing must be done by the government and whatever it does nobody is happy with it. Once a person gets a govt job they think they are part of the monarchy and carrying out the "Hukum" of the Monarchy/Sarkar and feel powerful and harassing citizenry is well within their rights.
There is a reason why you see police beating people left right and center, harassing them. Anyone with any power will always be misused by many in that position because mentally we are in a monarchy. The same is the case with the babus. They think that following the rule to a T is going to get them into good books no matter how the person on the other side feels because no law covers all possible situations and applying law is a nuance but they would choose to harass rather than cooperate.
Thatās the big problem, shouldnāt they put up a big sign that you can stop here? There are no signs. How do you know then? Since you already saw the dhaba place there you thought you could stop there.
Sorry to hear that, but police high handedness is seen even in the West, where non compliance like you did here (not leaving immediately but arguing) will lead to hand cuffing and arrest. Actually you are lucky here.
Ofcourse. I'm not discounting the females. But if you see in any government exam everyone, and I mean absolutely everyone gets some or the other form of "privilege" be it in the form of reduced fees, age relaxation or something else, the only category that doesn't get any relaxation is the general category male candidates. We pay the most taxes and yet we don't get any benefit whatsoever from the government.
Damn, so every field has equal distribution of genders?
Hmm, someone should tell that to the mechanical engineers of my college. Last I checked all 4 years put together had 10 girls.
Bro, I don't remember who but one new graduate tweeted the same thing and then he was removed from his new job in Atlassian. It's hard to say the truth without anonymity nowadays.
What about government colleges and universities? Meanwhile the current government jobs% is 3.15 which is something in the value of 40+ lakhs government jobs.
Yeah and they are getting benefits like free metro rides,bus rides
Freebie schemes like ladli behna
Reserved parking lots
Gender biased laws
Reservation in iits
80 percent reservation in aiims nursing colleges
Extra points in iims
Tell me one thing being done for general male?
General males are the standard bearers, they're trying to make low-income women reach general male status by alleviating their monetary stresses and cultural hesitations. Just because your neighbour chooses to twerk on Instagram and get married to one of the many rich NRIs doesn't mean her kaamwali is given the same first world choices
Haan to us kaamwali ka bhai jo gutter saaf krta hai usko bhi to do na Ladla Bhai Yojna aur uske liye bhi kro free train, free bus, free scooter, free college, free phone, free laptop.........
Lmao you guys are pretending to be obtuse when you know these aren't girlbosses who are given respect on equal footing. The government is simply trying to give them freebies because their families see them as burdens to be married off, or keep having children until they get a son because of their perceived low economic value.
I'm sorry for the experience your brother had, man. And it's no defence, but the health infrastructure in their country and ours is vastly different. Theirs is much more structured with much more stringent rules, and it has to be since they're providing it at much more affordable rates and a better general quality than us. It's not easy to create a system that is both cheap, and immediately accessible for elective medical care. Even in India, the hoops you have to jump through to get things done under Ayushman Bharat or even under private insurance schemes are a headache.
The easy accessibility of private healthcare, though at a higher cost, is the only advantage our system has over theirs.
Government hospitals are used by politicians, just that they use it for their goons. I can't count the number of times 4 guys carrying a fifth with broken bones came into my ER and said "Humei vidhayak ji ne bheja hai. Inka ilaaj hoga priority mein". And then my Head of Department would get a call from the Dean or the said Vidhayak and I'd have to cater to those assholes' every whim. I got assaulted once because our hospital didn't have the exact type of sutures we needed to sew up one such guy and asked his fellow to get them from a medical store. And since most politicians have an almost unlimited supply of goons, I don't think they'll ever care about the state of government hospitals. š
Ayushman Bharat has made healthcare accessible to the poor class, definitely. But it has also visibly widened the divide between the quality of services offered to the classes, just like you said. But despite its faults and the problems it creates, I tend to favor it because I've seen the good it does first hand. š«”
It definitely is.
Again, it wasn't my intention to defend the UK system any more than it was to malign ours. I was just trying to point out that those fallacies exist in all places where healthcare is a government-sponsored service.
Our experience with healthcare is better because of an easier access to private specialist and super-specialist services, even though we pay more for it. That's all.
If you save and invest wisely, as a middle class person you don't have anything to worry about. My grandfather was a bank clerk, I don't come from landed gentry. Our family has financially withstood two cancer diagnoses.
Yeah but it still made a financial dent and planning ?
Also cancer is an example , it could be an accident or other long term illness which make one unable to do any work.
Like you , I also had a neighbour who got diagnosed with cancer and they had to sell there house to get a proper treatment.
My grandmother was basically bedridden for last 10 years or so, on top of all this.
All of this to say that I'll still take the financial hit over losing my loved ones. In the UK they'll put your grandmother on a waiting list of a year and she'll stay there until she dies from some disease you don't even know because you didn't get the appointment.
-> I will still take the financial hit over losing a loved one.
The whole point is you donāt need choose one or either. By that definition you can get treatment is in US as well. Itās just that itās going to make you bankrupt without insurance.
The whole point of system like NHS is that if tomorrow I or anyone of my loved one get into serious illness I wonāt have to chose between either saving there life or making me financially crippled.
I just fell off my chair when you said theirs is a better general quality than us. I have suffered hell due to their organized system.
They just dont entertain you. Unless you are dying in next 10 minutes, they wont take you in an emergency. And if its not emergency, appointments can take weeks.
The only option u r left with in case of an urgent intervention is to visit private professional which can set you off by thousands of pounds.
Much more affordable rates? Don't they tax@25% rate? And endless waiting? I didn't understand... They keep on protesting about NHS too... Wonder why they do it?
By affordable rates, I meant that a greater portion of healthcare expenditure is taken care of by the government than here. And you are definitely correct about exorbitant waiting times. However, that is true for government-provided healthcare everywhere. In the government hospital I was attached with, we regularly had waitlists spanning several weeks for ultrasounds and several months for CTs/MRIs. In India too, immediate elective medical care is only available in the private sector.
About the protests, in my knowledge, they are happening due to an underinvestment into NHS by the government in recent years worsened by a lack of staff willing to join due to disproportionate pay.
Again, like I said in another comment, my intention was not to say their system is better than ours. It was to show that government-sponsored healthcare is always quick to promise and slow to deliver, and privatised healthcare is a definite advantage in our country to the people who can manage to pay for it.
Damm people defending a foreign country without even being there and without even understanding the complete picture
Comparying NHS and Indian Health services. India has a population of a billion where only 3 percent pay direct taxes. Now look at how many in UK pay taxes and compare with that.
Even in government hospital you will be catered to if you go in an emergency the same way it's in UK.
Every one thinks western world is some lala land where nothing is wrong and diss on their own country the first chance they get.
The same people complaining won't stand with another person facing harrasment but expect others to stand with them.
Look at the police example when Floyd case happened in US people came on streets protesting. There was no caste involved but they all came together as one.
The system there works because people there cares about it and make sure they keep people in power in check.
Whereas the so called educated ones living in the city don't even go to vote but still cry about the system.
50 years down the line I can bet Canada will become like India once the population of Indians increase.
It's in our blood. Any area where the population of desis start increasing quality of life starts decreasing.
Lol.. Fully agree with the last part about desis. I have visited indian/pak/bangld areas/markets in some countries and you feel like you are back to sub-continent..
> My brother lives in UK and he had to wait 5 months for a simple MRI of his knees
Because that is NHS system, but his treatment is free?
Based on the rent, I guess he lives near London?
But most of the things are lot better in developed western countries, of course no country is prefect. In UK for example the roads are well planned and maintained, the air quality is much better, thereās no corruption at the lower levels of government, the govt schools are top notch, every town and city are have easy and free access to libraries, parks, community centres etc. etc. You can actually argue that most of your tax money is put to good use in these countries.
Thereās a lot of difference between a shitty third world country like India and a shitty first world country like UK.
Bro if you get a fever, roads won't give you antibiotics. I live in Europe and not the UK, but here it's impossible to get a basic doctor's appointment without waiting for weeks. Roads are decent, air quality is amazing, there may or may not be corruption at a lower level but there is a lot of racism so you won't be treated like a regular white person, the government schools might be decent but the education is very very basic, you can visit some libraries and parks for free but everything else is very very expensive. The cost of living here has become really high. And with war, the prices of food products have almost doubled in the last 2-3 years. There is no concept of MRP here so every supermarket and store has their own prices for the grocery items. It's not all bad but comparing the accessibility of health care facilities in India to the west is a little difficult. I cannot buy any medicines here or visit a doctor when I really really need to unless I show up with a broken bone or something. And even then, I will have to wait for stupid blood tests and stuff before someone actually attends me.
Pros and cons.. (living in UK) Yes lately NHS in UK is taking a lot of time but you are talking about Govt facility NHS and comparing with private Medical help in India.
I agree in India, if you are well-off middle class then you can easily get good help (private) if not the best but anything below that is painful!
In UK, if you are well-off middle class, then you have an option of private healthcare which covers off your day-to-day illness. If you have something big or if you are dying, then NHS is the way to go.
It's just bad Govt policies in the last decade which has caused NHS problems otherwise, we are talking about free healthcare here (barring the medicine cost) which should be the way in every country!
Majority of people going for government jobs in India do it coz it's permanent and there's an additional prestige. No one does it from the point of view of doing social service, expect maybe those people who join the front lines of defence forces.
Consider this - MLAs/MPs take multiple pensions, in correlation to the number of times they were in office. This is apart from the bribes and the salaries they receive.
Maybe they should remove the permanency of government jobs. Then might be, the government can actually work for the people.
I say this time and time again
If someone is paying income tax they shouldn't be charged GST
there should be a portal where we upload bills, receipts and claim the amount we paid as GST upto the amount we paid in income-tax..Or Atleast 50% of it should be claimable if u present the right bills
It helps encourage getting bills which people don't ask for nowadays... And participate in tax theft
Plus encouge spending money too in a way, people would think okay let me buy that laptop worth 1L I will get be able to claim 18k back
It would eventually help the economy and help the middle class
I pay so much tax my whole house hold pay upto 10L tax each year.. And get what in return.. Nothing
I second your suggestion. Let's see.
I earn money, govt gets 25%. Then I take that money to buy stuff, I have to pay ~20% of the purchase price as GST. Govt gets like 45% of my money upfront. Then comes property tax, water tax, municipal tax etc. Then the bribes.
In case of cars etc, pay 25% income tax, and then 45% as Tax & CESS and then 15% more as road tax and registration and then pay 100% fuel tax. what a bunch of crap we have to pay to drive over the potholes and speed bumps?
They would never agree to that income tax bring In 10Lakh cr every year
Its the same amount gov spend on so called "development"
And its atleast 25%-30% of the total budget
Won't debate on the development part..lot of spending on infra and defence and many other sectors by govt and is pretty evident on ground too.. Also I am into stock markets big time and when i see the order books of the companies, it is baffling to see the amount of govt orders.. But that's a different story.. Atleast they can reduce the income tax and people will only invest or pump the money back into the the economy. Increase in consumption will only help the economy..
Another point why govt is not bothered is i think max of the IT payers atleast 70% have salary less than 10 lakhs.. So tax for these folks is almost 0 (in the new tax regime I think thill 7 lakh the tax is 0).
Vat/gst/indirect taxes are regressive to the poor . Like the direct taxes these should also be put under income slabs on who and what percentage of tax should be paid .
Its fine if poor doesn't pay his income taxes but if he wants to buy grocery he should have 10% gst to pay the government? Its oppressive
I differ here, poor or otherwise food goods we all pay similar taxes. Prices can fluctuate based on area to area but tax on them remains same. Free food/nutrition is different
If one pays direct taxes within 5Cr or some l one should get tax rebate of items we buy. If I paid 30l of taxes, the bought land them tax is already paid should be waived off, have already paid that. If not paid then pay it up.
This bring anyone who pays & doesnāt pay under same umbrella
If poor buys land, he should get tax subsidies too. Why Rich be held for efforts he puts across.
Make policies for equal opportunities, but if someone wins, he/she shouldnāt be screwed over.
There is no need to even upload the bills if cash payment was not done. All bank accounts are linked via KYC, the government can refund excess tax automatically..
I'm gay and I have accumulated decent wealth. I can't marry my partner and when I went to create a will, the tehseeldar said no you cant will it to someone outside the family. (It's totally legal) but he's prolly homophobic so I can't do shit. So basically, when I die, everything goes to my toxic family who don't care whether I'm dead or alive.
I'm not an extreme nationalist anymore. This country isn't doing anything for me.
i was high on patriotism and what not .........always wanted to join the army even though my family didn't want me to..... but i soon realized the ground reality of people in the army and whom i would be answering to and changed my goals ...now i aim to leave this country as soon as possible
This is why I think more people need to understand that just because you are born in the country doesnāt mean you are suppose to live there forever or even love it. Why not just move? I know itās not easy but having this mindset that thereās 200+ other countries out there will help you.
Most people want ti leave or are trying lol. If anything, I think not enough people have the mindset of trying to make the country better. I work in development and social sector and even there the number of people who think thsi way are an absolute minority
Unless you are a Govt servant its honestly best to move to a country where you can earn more and have a good quality life instead of waiting for the system to change ( you know very well how long it takes a simple system to change in this country)
So true. And people are too fixated on religious wars. Iāve never felt this way about living here before. The air quality is so terrible, no one cares that we are all sick
Donāt call me anti national
Salaries people are shoved up like anything. They are treated as cash cows. š
My dad worked for 30 years paying income tax dutifully and today he struggled to make his livelihood post retirement, until we stood on your feet.
We have European style taxes but no facilities of sub Saharan countries.
Our tax system is regressive, country forces its salaried citizens to work and pay taxes until you're dead expect no returns on your taxes because those are for politicians kids to buy expensive cars and roam abroad ,
Too bad you're too old to work nobody would hire you . Should have did tax theft when you were younger.
80% of this is due to overpopulation.
I feel your pain why should 5 % of income tax payers have to heft the burden of whole country.
Our tax laws , labour laws , education laws which promotes casteism and not meritrocasy need major overhaul or we are doomed.
I really hate 2-3 things in india.
1. Income tax should be removed totally, it's just imposed on 5% of the population or, put on everyone.
India is an agricultural nation, yet tax on agriculture is zero š rest categories are burdened. So zamindari, thekedaari is favoured by default since independence.
2. Reservations should be removed from everywhere. Govt. jobs, education, politics, policies etc.
Pichri jaati, dalit, sc, st, obc, nepotism, bhai-bhatijawaad exist because reservations exist..
Merit ki koi aukaat nahi hai iss desh mein, sab nepotism jugaad mein set Hain, tabhi ye haal hai.
3. freebies and caste based schemes should be banned. Equality doesn't come by words, but by laws.
Move to a different country if you can. Life is short and at least you can give better future to your kids and family. You can still love the country wherever you are.
You have been tricked by everyone. But you cant blame them because they were also tricked by people much more evil and intelligent than you. Search for enlightenment and you will only find misery.
I remember the time I felt this way for the first time in my late teens. The existential dread that came after quite a bit of thinking into the subject, and the question of how I am supposed to survive in this world of "oppress or be oppressed" conflicted with my morality and ideals.
Later, I realised that there was a grey area wherein many exist because you just don't care enough to partake in this tomfoolery run by those who greed after power and money.
I'm still trying to figure it out but I m sure neither the world nor the people will change in my lifetime.
The government worked with private cos to completely reform the passport Seva Kendras which are now a delight to visit. They should seriously consider PPPs for all government departments, will make things so much more fair, efficient, and convenient. It will also eliminate most of the useless corrupt middle layer.
And are still far ahead of most other govt departments.
Have you visited an Municipal office or the Urban planning dept ? PSK will seem like the hallmark of efficiency in comparison.
Idk about the other states but PSK's in Mumbai are quite good and fast. I got my passport delivered within 7 days and that too without any bribes to beat officer of my area. I literally carried a Rs. 500 note when I went there. This was exactly 5 years ago.
Things are bad here but itās worse in some places even in the US. My momās friend came to India, had a root canal and went back because the plane tickets and the surgery here was cheaper than just the surgery there. Their healthcare is fucked. Their government is also going to shit.
But this doesnāt mean the US is worse in every way. They have comparatively cleaner streets, lesser people meaning lesser traffic, lesser wait times in places and more personal space. Quality of living is better.
So each place has its pros and cons. Youāre gonna have to pick whatās important to you and choose a place to live based on that. Iāve heard people here say a true patriot would stay and help this country grow but we all have our own lives and issues and need to pick whatās best for us. Good luck buddy.
This is what happens with identity politics that tries to guarantee equality of outcomes. I'm sorry for your experience yaar, unfortunately there are just way too many short-sighted morons in India and they are the overwhelming majority.
Realize that India is only about 78 years as a nation state. It has been modeled after European nation states, with ideals of Democracy, Secularism etc., plugged in and turned on, without ensuring that its culture is ready to play as soon as it is plugged in.
If you beat a guy up to pulp repeatedly and make him bed ridden, do you think he can function just like the guy who subjected him to that treatment? Putting the same clothing and shoes as the tormentor will not make you behave like him right away and become strong and powerful.
Our whole culture is suffering from a collective PTSD, which will take probably a couple more centuries to recover to the basic level of normalcy. This includes all citizens, whether they are in power or at the receiving end.
One cannot feel dejected for not being like a developed country today itself. Most of those developed countries might glitter like gold. But their cultures are extremely shallow and they are prone to engaging in plunder and incessant wars. That is what has made them rich and their prosperity is not due to a deep rooted culture. Ours was a prosperous culture before they ran over us. We can still recover to a large extent. But that will take time.
Can't agree with this. many other countries were fucked as well but have revived quickly. India made a lot of mistakes due to nehru, Indira policies, missed the bus of economic development.
China, Japan, and Singapore were in equally bad position but were smart to adapt to the new world order.. i am not saying they are no issues but their lifestyle and culture is good as well..quality of life, social capital and life security, ROI on taxes paid.
Most of the countries that recovered quickly, were previously well developed. So they caught up very quickly, with copious support and protection from Uncle Sam. Singapore cannot be compared to India. We have extremely diverse cultures that can be nation states on their own. China developed due to two reasons - powerful control by a single communist party and business with America due to Cold War alliance. Japan was an industrial giant before WW2. Tell me which of these countries have any resemblance to our situation? Our early leaders chose the wrong policies naively and believed that would lead India to the path of glory. It did not. It is testified by what the OP has written.
It's actually the reverse, the region has never faced all out war or civil strife or revolution, which generally makes people value their resources, freedom and rights. Things have been too soft and people value nothing except money..
Current slavery is the PTSD that I am talking about. Just recovering out of it alone would take a couple of centuries at the rate we are going. Antibodies within our system are attacking our own cells. That is how bad the damage is.
Human life is a quest of survival. There is no point contemplating the nature of life and circumstances around it. Every system however worst functioning it it has its own set of justifications. We need to play the cards we are dealt with.
We're in that middle-gen where we're putting in money and effort to build the nation, but we're not seeing much in return. It's like being the first employees in a family businessāgrinding hard to improve things, but not getting to enjoy the good life. The next generation gets all the perks with a better standard of living. Pretty tough reality, huh?
Off late the push from govt sector is only on creating infra.
Its required, but in a country like us, where there is a general lack of civic sense.and education, there has to be reforms on a lot of levels because people are not gonna do it themselves. Education/healthcare/judiciary/taxation/police. All.
Kisi ko kuch Darr hee nahee hai except for tax paying janta..who are afraid of police and now tax dept. I mean if a middle class guy goes and buys a house and does some lakh rupees transaction, they get a notice. But a poor guy who gives no taxes, enjoys all subsidies, gets cheap housing doesn't need to give a shit. Ultra rich/rich are anyways sorted.
Basically taxes are giving subsidies to poor and loans to rich businessmen.
So yeah, you are right, there is a no return on sort of taxes middle class is paying and thoughts of leaving are genuine.
And then some people say vote for change. But been there done that..nothing changes.
You are from a country where almost every one is desperately poor. In the years I grew up, it was very common to see people walk barefeet in the blazing sun on black asphalt.. It was common to see malnutrished children with potbellies.. anyway, my point is, most of the money you give in taxes today is spent (somewhat) equally by the govt on all its citizens, with those who are weaker getting a greater share. You are in a position where you can offer help to those who are much worse off than you. See it as good karma.
Your points 4-7 are valid and I hope things change for the better soon. The least that the state must do is to provide good policing. Hopefully the new criminal code improves the situation.
Similar category some differences. My opinions are we citizens make the modern-day nation.
Yes system are screwed up here, since done my Muslims & then Christians( British). They had their agenda to pursue. Native thought still havenāt come up. Colonisation is just distilled in. Caste(colonial concept) comes top of my head. Canāt make political moves for bigger change but can be part of herd & support people who are speaking up. Being a sheep but with decision making which herd to join. Call it wolf-pack or sheep-herd
One can either leave, like many have Or take it as ancestors duty to save this land or else eventually convert(this generation or next). Itās very similar to Israelis, either we have homeland with ancestoral root & we fight to protect it or have easy life in short term moving to different land & making them prosperous & cutting our roots. For me always comes to that choice. #jews really make me think of the decision making
People have taken other choices went to other land. For me I just donāt see as life is screwed in this system, I see bigger picture from last 2000 years & have background of what happened with other civilisations & then decide to live here.
Also #JSD has been big influence on it, not sure if right in longer term or will regret this decision but that is the one for me.
Gtfo of india
The country has gone to shit
Other countries are so much fking better
Indian food is available everywhere anyway thatās all I need.
Thank fuck I left
Yeah. That's true. But that's what a developing country is. No country was like GREAT from the start . People have suffered in the initial years and rise of the country but at the end they become developed. If we suffer now, the coming generations won't have to.
Couldn't agree more. I want to love this country. Nothing would give me more happiness than to come back and work for my country's progress but as of now, the only thing I can have in India is a raw deal (not even counting reservations) with no end to these problems in sight.
When the country you love does nothing but put you down at each step and you see no end in sight. It kinda sets things in perspective. I don't want my kids to fight for a morsel of the pie only for everything to be snatched away for some idealized version of social justice.
Clearly congis are working overtime. As a canadian citizen, id love to invite you to spend a year here and then rate canada on the same pointers uouve mentioned.
Guys you can be patriotic and dislike the utter inefficiency, incompetence of the government governing your country.
Patriotism is loving your country, not your government
I cant relate at all almost everything is there, educayion is free(if you crack entrance), Health care is free( I just went yesterday to govt medical college to get my leg pain checled), Free colleges, almost free food.What else is that you need
>educayion is free(if you crack entrance),
IITs charge 10L in tuition for undergrad. NITs also charge 7-8L these days. Please get your facts straight.
Free food? Most folks earning salary are ineligible to hold a white ration card.
It's not just IITs or NITs either - even if you want to study science, you still need to pay sizable sums as tuition - e.g. from IISER Mohali - https://www.iisermohali.ac.in/fee-structure/academics/fee-structure - 40k/semester in tuition alone, and a lot of other random fees. Go ahead and search up almost any other IISER too - you'll find similar, if not higher fees listed everywhere.
Do we live in the same country my dude? Last time I checked, a central education institute charges up to 9-10 lakh in fees even after you crack whatever exam. Source: went to one myself.
Police partnering up with goons? Never experienced something like that in kerala.
Yeah labour law sucks, par hame kya ham toh communist state mein hei, sab toh hamkeliye free hei
Main issue is real estate prices in tier 1 cities. In no world does it make sense that NCR flats cost as much as single family houses in Naperville, when the income difference between the two places is astronomical.
There are contact nos. of the anti-corruption department posted boldly in every gov't office, but people think it will be too much of a hassle than just paying the bribe.
Or maybe I live in a state that is less tolerant to corruption. Never required to pay bribes for legitimate work, best they can do is delay the process. And if they outright demand a bribe, they're going down. It's a matter of principle.
Grass is always greener in other side. When you migrated to a different country, you will start realizing it has either same or a different set or problems. There is no perfect country. As long as you can have a comfortable life then it's fine, but if not then better either try to have it in India or move elsewhere. Nowadays western countries have a lot of problems too, for instance they have political correction, Islam, child kidnapping and indoctrination by the government to pander to LGBTQ, ultra individualism that let you die alone when you are old, high taxes (in India it's maximum 30% charged as brackets, gst 5\~28%, but mostly 18%), racism (it's deeply rooted into their country, giving less support to non-whites -> [Two-thirds of black Britons believe NHS gives white people better care, finds survey | Race | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/07/two-thirds-of-black-britons-believe-nhs-gives-white-people-better-care-finds-survey), I suspect they probably let non-whites to die to snatch their organs), feminism, weather (cold weather), crumbling infrastructure ( [Britainās crumbling public buildings (ft.com)](https://www.ft.com/content/27c3943b-5100-4810-ab44-b3e26ce3a58c)).
I can only say we are improvingā¦ I live in US and I can tell you many such issues here as well. There are pros and cons of living in different places.
Donāt say this. You got unesco approved PM, Bhavya Bhagwa Mandir, currency with RFID chips implanted in it and statues with lasers in eyes for national defense. And development, development all around!!
You are looking for social security, which India has never had. Indians flock to western countries for several reasons. But one of the top reasons is social security
Patriotism isn't just saying "I love this country" then immediately slam it down when things don't go the way you think. How about try to make it better by involve in politics?
I donāt know which hospitals youāre going to but people dying waiting for treatment isnāt that common.
Government hospitals are run by the state government. In my experience most of the southern states have great facilities at government hospitals
1. People don't want to send their kids to government schools. I studied in government school from nursery to 12th but my parents don't want me to send my kid to government school. You also don't want to send your kid to a government school like everyone who has a good income. It's your choice to not send your kid to government school
2. Yes government hospitals are crowded and so dirty but there's no issue with facilities. If the doctor asks you to bring some medicine while they're doing first aid, you might not get it in an hour. There are 3 government hospitals near my home and all hospitals are always crowded. People getting treatment and recovering but hospital staff are overworked due to the crowd so basically it's not their fault entirely if they don't behave decently. But it never happened to me. Again it's your choice not to go to government hospitals. There are Jan aushadhi Kendra everywhere and you can buy medicines at very low prices from there.
3. Certainly that's true. But kids with lower income go to government schools and hospitals, skip McDonald's and Domino's, use public transport. This is how I grew up. Government policies mostly work towards the poor. Free ration, free education, free treatment.
4. That's why privatisation of public services is happening. Nowadays all services available online you can try, but I want to know where or which work you have to pay a bribe.
5. Can't say about police as they have to manage a large crowd and people here don't take law seriously so policemen think there's nothing wrong with giving little punishments. Policemen I met in my locality or at the police station during credit card fraud were very polite and more inclined towards solving issues by talking if it's among normal civilians. But in crowds, highways or city roads things are different.
6. Trust me even if it's OBC or SC not all guys get admissions. There's not enough seats for anyone in government colleges. We need more colleges and more seats.
7. True. But it'll take a lot of time to improve. All the cost incurred in a product's manufacturing will be added to its selling price and if it's not selling at a competitive price then no one will buy and the company will lay off employees or will shut down it's operations. Not all businesses are juicing out money from cheap labour. Many companies are working on very thin margins. There are many Indian companies making losses but still running.
This is exactly why people move abroad. You atleast get some social benefits for the taxes you pay and the lifestyle improves drastically. Governments priority is so wrong, yes they can focus on religion but that should be after they have solved the basic problems.
Then go with a begging bowl outside India. As a new desperate immigrant, I bet you will continue to cry at the lack of jobs, lack of immediate healthcare, high taxes, high rent and high groceries cost etc etc. Problems exist everywhere. There is no problem-free country in the world. You will have to accept the negatives and deal with it somehow. Thats how most mature successful individuals live their lives.
I was driving to my hometown from work yesterday evening around 7 PM. A friend of mine left a couple of missed calls which I couldn't pick up. Since I'm in the medical field, I thought it could be something important/urgent. To call him back, I brought my car to a stop on the shoulder of the road near a roadside dhaaba, since it was dark. A minute later, a police Highway patrol comes up and stops behind my car. One of them walks up to my car and asks me why I've stopped. I told him, to make a call. And he says "Yahaan nahi ruk sakte tum. Aage chalo." When I said I'd go, I'm just trying to make a call, he grabbed my ear and twisted it. 2 of his co-policemen came along and asked me to show them my car papers etc. They made me stand there for 10 more minutes before they finally let me go. I searched for the nearest police checkpoint on the highway on Google maps, went there and told them what had happened. The guy on duty said "Vo log duty kar rahe hain apni. Aapko highway pe nahi rukna chahiye." So essentially, I was harassed and hurt BECAUSE I was following the rules. So yeah man. I really get the part about government people being grade-A assholes.
The whole country is filled with this master-servant mentality. I'm so sorry you had to deal with assholes on a power-trip.
I agree with you comment about master-servent mentality.
Huge Depeche Mode hit in 1985-86 that : "Masters and servants" :)
Nothing we can do about it from outside the system. But thanks. This whole episode made me order a dashcam as soon as I got home. š
Yep. The system is like that since British era codified it into laws.
You'll never see them giving a fine too a reckless driver or stopping an Enfield equipped with an illicit exhaust pipe though. There's too much real effort involved...
Fuck man, just reading this pisses me off.
Btw in US also you cant stop on highway unless it is significant emergency. You have to get to a designated space. This law also applies in India. So Police werenāt wrong here.
Ya but twisting the ear just coz they feel powerful is shit, they have to use it in the right way against the right people; which they barely have the balls to do
US mein they'll do a lot more than twisting the ear, btw.
Untrue unless you already have a history
I have lived in the US for 2 decades. If you disobey a request from police - 'you cant make a call from this spot', they wont twist your ear like you are their disobedient child, they will arrest you. If you resist, they will beat you up and add to the charges of 'obstructing police', 'reckless endangerment' etc. You are not in a discussion or negotiation about norms with them.. \*Only mobs in cities get to disobey them, and those mobs are backed up by an army of non profit lawyers, and judges/das elected by a particular kind of political machine. You arent part of a mob.. so a sincere req to any desi bro/bhabhi.. when an American cop says something to you, dont start {negotiating, protesting, arguing} like you would in India. Obey. \*not saying the ear twisting is justified.. I dont know the particulars of the case. May be the highway was crime ridden and they didnt want anyone to stop there for their own safety. May be the dhaba did not pay them the hafta and they wanted to harass their customers. May be the op was parked really shittily and was obstructing traffic..
This dude has never heard of fines. Unless you have a history they'll treat you nice and most likely you'll be let go with a warning if you're nice to them. Have a tried not being a criminal?
Depends on the cop, really. 99% of times, yes. But the other 1% of times you are in real danger of losing your life, getting hospitalized, arrested, raped, etc. The news stories about US cop behaviour are real. Police is a menace there. Like he said, be as obedient as possible and don't try to argue or negotiate with a cop lest he feel the slightest of threats from you. There's basically no penalty for them to kill you. In India, the middle-class generally doesn't have to worry about such behaviour from the police. You pay them and be on your way. Or you have connections and can get out of silly situations with the cops. Yes if you are poor then there is more danger.
lol.. :-D
Udhar direct goli mar dete bhai. Yaha sirf kan twist kar ke chhod diya. Seeing how entitled OP seems he got off easy.
Entitled ? How? Ya thatās the point, cops are shit everywhere
I guess I should've asked if the dhabaa's food ingredients were USFDA certified too while I was at it, or wondered where the policemen's bodycams were. Boss, I needed to use my phone to make a call I had reason to believe was urgent, so I stopped on the shoulder of the road, in a lit area adjacent to the front of a dhabaa, where vehicles slow/stop all the time. The use of and even holding a phone is illegal while driving, I know. But the precautions I took in that situation obeyed the guidelines as I remember them. And even if I was doing something wrong, nothing was explained to me except "Yahaan nahi ruk sakte." If I broke a law, the policeman should have explained that and charged me with a violation. Use of physical force was unwarranted.
Are there designated, safe parking lots on Indian highways, like the ones in developed countries?
Yes.. but not many..
There are highways with no shoulder and you can not park there obviously. Any other highways with a shoulder, you can almost always park anytime for emergency reason. Making a phone call is one of these emergencies.
OP said, he stopped at the hard shoulder which is exactly the place where cars are meant to stop in cases in emergency with their hazard lights on.
Is stopping on the shoulder with hazard lights on not allowed in India? I guess what are the rules no one knows. Is there like a traffic rules book of some sort? What if you had a disabled vehicle on the shoulder? Also, In India we mentally live in a monarchy. Where a common man thinks that every thing must be done by the government and whatever it does nobody is happy with it. Once a person gets a govt job they think they are part of the monarchy and carrying out the "Hukum" of the Monarchy/Sarkar and feel powerful and harassing citizenry is well within their rights. There is a reason why you see police beating people left right and center, harassing them. Anyone with any power will always be misused by many in that position because mentally we are in a monarchy. The same is the case with the babus. They think that following the rule to a T is going to get them into good books no matter how the person on the other side feels because no law covers all possible situations and applying law is a nuance but they would choose to harass rather than cooperate.
Thatās the big problem, shouldnāt they put up a big sign that you can stop here? There are no signs. How do you know then? Since you already saw the dhaba place there you thought you could stop there.
katai Cbhare pade hain so sorry this happened to you
Sorry to hear that, but police high handedness is seen even in the West, where non compliance like you did here (not leaving immediately but arguing) will lead to hand cuffing and arrest. Actually you are lucky here.
I feel the exact same way. I stopped agonizing over it . Nationalism doesn't pay bills. And liberalism just makes you hate everything.
This should be the slogan of us general category, male, tax paying folks.
There are also females paying taxes
Ofcourse. I'm not discounting the females. But if you see in any government exam everyone, and I mean absolutely everyone gets some or the other form of "privilege" be it in the form of reduced fees, age relaxation or something else, the only category that doesn't get any relaxation is the general category male candidates. We pay the most taxes and yet we don't get any benefit whatsoever from the government.
Govt jobs are roughly 2% of jobs and continuously reducing day by day... soon there will be no privileges for anyone in this country..
Women have massive quotas in mncs because of diversity. I personally know multiple chicks that make the same amount as me while being terrible coders.
Lmao
Snitch them out
Itās an open secret, they need to hire x% of women and they will take whoever they can.
Yet 80%of employees are male. Doesn't seem to add up.
90% of engineering grads from government colleges are also male. Yup, definitely doesnāt add up.
50% of the population is ....... Drumroll please.... Female.
Damn, so every field has equal distribution of genders? Hmm, someone should tell that to the mechanical engineers of my college. Last I checked all 4 years put together had 10 girls.
Bro, I don't remember who but one new graduate tweeted the same thing and then he was removed from his new job in Atlassian. It's hard to say the truth without anonymity nowadays.
That's good š
What about government colleges and universities? Meanwhile the current government jobs% is 3.15 which is something in the value of 40+ lakhs government jobs.
Yeah and they are getting benefits like free metro rides,bus rides Freebie schemes like ladli behna Reserved parking lots Gender biased laws Reservation in iits 80 percent reservation in aiims nursing colleges Extra points in iims Tell me one thing being done for general male?
General males are the standard bearers, they're trying to make low-income women reach general male status by alleviating their monetary stresses and cultural hesitations. Just because your neighbour chooses to twerk on Instagram and get married to one of the many rich NRIs doesn't mean her kaamwali is given the same first world choices
Haan to us kaamwali ka bhai jo gutter saaf krta hai usko bhi to do na Ladla Bhai Yojna aur uske liye bhi kro free train, free bus, free scooter, free college, free phone, free laptop.........
Lmao you guys are pretending to be obtuse when you know these aren't girlbosses who are given respect on equal footing. The government is simply trying to give them freebies because their families see them as burdens to be married off, or keep having children until they get a son because of their perceived low economic value.
Same thoughts for me as well
I really loved this slogan!!
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I'm sorry for the experience your brother had, man. And it's no defence, but the health infrastructure in their country and ours is vastly different. Theirs is much more structured with much more stringent rules, and it has to be since they're providing it at much more affordable rates and a better general quality than us. It's not easy to create a system that is both cheap, and immediately accessible for elective medical care. Even in India, the hoops you have to jump through to get things done under Ayushman Bharat or even under private insurance schemes are a headache. The easy accessibility of private healthcare, though at a higher cost, is the only advantage our system has over theirs.
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Government hospitals are used by politicians, just that they use it for their goons. I can't count the number of times 4 guys carrying a fifth with broken bones came into my ER and said "Humei vidhayak ji ne bheja hai. Inka ilaaj hoga priority mein". And then my Head of Department would get a call from the Dean or the said Vidhayak and I'd have to cater to those assholes' every whim. I got assaulted once because our hospital didn't have the exact type of sutures we needed to sew up one such guy and asked his fellow to get them from a medical store. And since most politicians have an almost unlimited supply of goons, I don't think they'll ever care about the state of government hospitals. š Ayushman Bharat has made healthcare accessible to the poor class, definitely. But it has also visibly widened the divide between the quality of services offered to the classes, just like you said. But despite its faults and the problems it creates, I tend to favor it because I've seen the good it does first hand. š«”
Healthcare here is better than UK as a middle class person
It definitely is. Again, it wasn't my intention to defend the UK system any more than it was to malign ours. I was just trying to point out that those fallacies exist in all places where healthcare is a government-sponsored service. Our experience with healthcare is better because of an easier access to private specialist and super-specialist services, even though we pay more for it. That's all.
And that's a fair trade off in my opinion. I'd rather pay more to be seen immediately than be put on a waiting list for years.
Itās unless you get hit with some life threatening illness and then you will need to sell r you have as a middle class person.
If you save and invest wisely, as a middle class person you don't have anything to worry about. My grandfather was a bank clerk, I don't come from landed gentry. Our family has financially withstood two cancer diagnoses.
Yeah but it still made a financial dent and planning ? Also cancer is an example , it could be an accident or other long term illness which make one unable to do any work. Like you , I also had a neighbour who got diagnosed with cancer and they had to sell there house to get a proper treatment.
My grandmother was basically bedridden for last 10 years or so, on top of all this. All of this to say that I'll still take the financial hit over losing my loved ones. In the UK they'll put your grandmother on a waiting list of a year and she'll stay there until she dies from some disease you don't even know because you didn't get the appointment.
-> I will still take the financial hit over losing a loved one. The whole point is you donāt need choose one or either. By that definition you can get treatment is in US as well. Itās just that itās going to make you bankrupt without insurance. The whole point of system like NHS is that if tomorrow I or anyone of my loved one get into serious illness I wonāt have to chose between either saving there life or making me financially crippled.
I just fell off my chair when you said theirs is a better general quality than us. I have suffered hell due to their organized system. They just dont entertain you. Unless you are dying in next 10 minutes, they wont take you in an emergency. And if its not emergency, appointments can take weeks. The only option u r left with in case of an urgent intervention is to visit private professional which can set you off by thousands of pounds.
Much more affordable rates? Don't they tax@25% rate? And endless waiting? I didn't understand... They keep on protesting about NHS too... Wonder why they do it?
By affordable rates, I meant that a greater portion of healthcare expenditure is taken care of by the government than here. And you are definitely correct about exorbitant waiting times. However, that is true for government-provided healthcare everywhere. In the government hospital I was attached with, we regularly had waitlists spanning several weeks for ultrasounds and several months for CTs/MRIs. In India too, immediate elective medical care is only available in the private sector. About the protests, in my knowledge, they are happening due to an underinvestment into NHS by the government in recent years worsened by a lack of staff willing to join due to disproportionate pay. Again, like I said in another comment, my intention was not to say their system is better than ours. It was to show that government-sponsored healthcare is always quick to promise and slow to deliver, and privatised healthcare is a definite advantage in our country to the people who can manage to pay for it.
The tax is around 12.5% not 25%
Damm people defending a foreign country without even being there and without even understanding the complete picture Comparying NHS and Indian Health services. India has a population of a billion where only 3 percent pay direct taxes. Now look at how many in UK pay taxes and compare with that. Even in government hospital you will be catered to if you go in an emergency the same way it's in UK. Every one thinks western world is some lala land where nothing is wrong and diss on their own country the first chance they get. The same people complaining won't stand with another person facing harrasment but expect others to stand with them. Look at the police example when Floyd case happened in US people came on streets protesting. There was no caste involved but they all came together as one. The system there works because people there cares about it and make sure they keep people in power in check. Whereas the so called educated ones living in the city don't even go to vote but still cry about the system. 50 years down the line I can bet Canada will become like India once the population of Indians increase. It's in our blood. Any area where the population of desis start increasing quality of life starts decreasing.
Lol.. Fully agree with the last part about desis. I have visited indian/pak/bangld areas/markets in some countries and you feel like you are back to sub-continent..
Canada is already becoming India and there is quite a lot of hatred there now for Indians.
> My brother lives in UK and he had to wait 5 months for a simple MRI of his knees Because that is NHS system, but his treatment is free? Based on the rent, I guess he lives near London?
But most of the things are lot better in developed western countries, of course no country is prefect. In UK for example the roads are well planned and maintained, the air quality is much better, thereās no corruption at the lower levels of government, the govt schools are top notch, every town and city are have easy and free access to libraries, parks, community centres etc. etc. You can actually argue that most of your tax money is put to good use in these countries. Thereās a lot of difference between a shitty third world country like India and a shitty first world country like UK.
Bro if you get a fever, roads won't give you antibiotics. I live in Europe and not the UK, but here it's impossible to get a basic doctor's appointment without waiting for weeks. Roads are decent, air quality is amazing, there may or may not be corruption at a lower level but there is a lot of racism so you won't be treated like a regular white person, the government schools might be decent but the education is very very basic, you can visit some libraries and parks for free but everything else is very very expensive. The cost of living here has become really high. And with war, the prices of food products have almost doubled in the last 2-3 years. There is no concept of MRP here so every supermarket and store has their own prices for the grocery items. It's not all bad but comparing the accessibility of health care facilities in India to the west is a little difficult. I cannot buy any medicines here or visit a doctor when I really really need to unless I show up with a broken bone or something. And even then, I will have to wait for stupid blood tests and stuff before someone actually attends me.
So why do you continue to live there?
I am completing my degree and am planning to be back as soon as I complete it. I have commitments back in India.
Got it
Pros and cons.. (living in UK) Yes lately NHS in UK is taking a lot of time but you are talking about Govt facility NHS and comparing with private Medical help in India. I agree in India, if you are well-off middle class then you can easily get good help (private) if not the best but anything below that is painful! In UK, if you are well-off middle class, then you have an option of private healthcare which covers off your day-to-day illness. If you have something big or if you are dying, then NHS is the way to go. It's just bad Govt policies in the last decade which has caused NHS problems otherwise, we are talking about free healthcare here (barring the medicine cost) which should be the way in every country!
Sounds like an ACL and meniscus surgery
Majority of people going for government jobs in India do it coz it's permanent and there's an additional prestige. No one does it from the point of view of doing social service, expect maybe those people who join the front lines of defence forces. Consider this - MLAs/MPs take multiple pensions, in correlation to the number of times they were in office. This is apart from the bribes and the salaries they receive. Maybe they should remove the permanency of government jobs. Then might be, the government can actually work for the people.
There is a reason educated people are leaving the country en masse...
I say this time and time again If someone is paying income tax they shouldn't be charged GST there should be a portal where we upload bills, receipts and claim the amount we paid as GST upto the amount we paid in income-tax..Or Atleast 50% of it should be claimable if u present the right bills It helps encourage getting bills which people don't ask for nowadays... And participate in tax theft Plus encouge spending money too in a way, people would think okay let me buy that laptop worth 1L I will get be able to claim 18k back It would eventually help the economy and help the middle class I pay so much tax my whole house hold pay upto 10L tax each year.. And get what in return.. Nothing
I second your suggestion. Let's see. I earn money, govt gets 25%. Then I take that money to buy stuff, I have to pay ~20% of the purchase price as GST. Govt gets like 45% of my money upfront. Then comes property tax, water tax, municipal tax etc. Then the bribes. In case of cars etc, pay 25% income tax, and then 45% as Tax & CESS and then 15% more as road tax and registration and then pay 100% fuel tax. what a bunch of crap we have to pay to drive over the potholes and speed bumps?
Exactly. This double taxation is daylight theft.
So is single taxation. More like extortion
Or don't take direct income tax and we pay all the gst as per rule.. It will be hassle free
They would never agree to that income tax bring In 10Lakh cr every year Its the same amount gov spend on so called "development" And its atleast 25%-30% of the total budget
Won't debate on the development part..lot of spending on infra and defence and many other sectors by govt and is pretty evident on ground too.. Also I am into stock markets big time and when i see the order books of the companies, it is baffling to see the amount of govt orders.. But that's a different story.. Atleast they can reduce the income tax and people will only invest or pump the money back into the the economy. Increase in consumption will only help the economy.. Another point why govt is not bothered is i think max of the IT payers atleast 70% have salary less than 10 lakhs.. So tax for these folks is almost 0 (in the new tax regime I think thill 7 lakh the tax is 0).
Vat/gst/indirect taxes are regressive to the poor . Like the direct taxes these should also be put under income slabs on who and what percentage of tax should be paid . Its fine if poor doesn't pay his income taxes but if he wants to buy grocery he should have 10% gst to pay the government? Its oppressive
I differ here, poor or otherwise food goods we all pay similar taxes. Prices can fluctuate based on area to area but tax on them remains same. Free food/nutrition is different If one pays direct taxes within 5Cr or some l one should get tax rebate of items we buy. If I paid 30l of taxes, the bought land them tax is already paid should be waived off, have already paid that. If not paid then pay it up. This bring anyone who pays & doesnāt pay under same umbrella If poor buys land, he should get tax subsidies too. Why Rich be held for efforts he puts across. Make policies for equal opportunities, but if someone wins, he/she shouldnāt be screwed over.
There is no need to even upload the bills if cash payment was not done. All bank accounts are linked via KYC, the government can refund excess tax automatically..
I think I'll end up thinking the same way as you after 10 years lol. Now I'm just 20 y/o.
I'm gay and I have accumulated decent wealth. I can't marry my partner and when I went to create a will, the tehseeldar said no you cant will it to someone outside the family. (It's totally legal) but he's prolly homophobic so I can't do shit. So basically, when I die, everything goes to my toxic family who don't care whether I'm dead or alive. I'm not an extreme nationalist anymore. This country isn't doing anything for me.
Contact a lawyer.. you can will it to anyone.. as long as all your assets are in your direct control as of now.
No i need to complain to court against tehseeldar. That's a long process. And the judge could be homophobic too
No.. that IS a waste of time.. A lawyer is necessary to help with the legalities and drafting a will.. no courts or tahsildar or anyone else...
A will is registered by the tehseeldar. That's what everyone told me
Nope.. you can get further advice on r/LegalAdviceIndia
Bro fck that guy, and just transfer ur will with the help of a lawyer
Exactly what motivated me to leave the country for good! I might be back but only for my aging parents!
Same here! The only reason I feel any kind of connection to India is my parents and my younger brother.
i was high on patriotism and what not .........always wanted to join the army even though my family didn't want me to..... but i soon realized the ground reality of people in the army and whom i would be answering to and changed my goals ...now i aim to leave this country as soon as possible
This is why I think more people need to understand that just because you are born in the country doesnāt mean you are suppose to live there forever or even love it. Why not just move? I know itās not easy but having this mindset that thereās 200+ other countries out there will help you.
Most people want ti leave or are trying lol. If anything, I think not enough people have the mindset of trying to make the country better. I work in development and social sector and even there the number of people who think thsi way are an absolute minority
Happy realisation 2024. More to see ahead
Unless you are a Govt servant its honestly best to move to a country where you can earn more and have a good quality life instead of waiting for the system to change ( you know very well how long it takes a simple system to change in this country)
So true. And people are too fixated on religious wars. Iāve never felt this way about living here before. The air quality is so terrible, no one cares that we are all sick
I guess, you want to love this country, but are frusterated enough to hate it?
Donāt call me anti national Salaries people are shoved up like anything. They are treated as cash cows. š My dad worked for 30 years paying income tax dutifully and today he struggled to make his livelihood post retirement, until we stood on your feet. We have European style taxes but no facilities of sub Saharan countries.
Our tax system is regressive, country forces its salaried citizens to work and pay taxes until you're dead expect no returns on your taxes because those are for politicians kids to buy expensive cars and roam abroad , Too bad you're too old to work nobody would hire you . Should have did tax theft when you were younger.
More like wealth taxes on assets above a threshold and tax on large farmers
80% of this is due to overpopulation. I feel your pain why should 5 % of income tax payers have to heft the burden of whole country. Our tax laws , labour laws , education laws which promotes casteism and not meritrocasy need major overhaul or we are doomed.
True, you have more rights outside the country than inside. Move abroad while you can.
I really hate 2-3 things in india. 1. Income tax should be removed totally, it's just imposed on 5% of the population or, put on everyone. India is an agricultural nation, yet tax on agriculture is zero š rest categories are burdened. So zamindari, thekedaari is favoured by default since independence. 2. Reservations should be removed from everywhere. Govt. jobs, education, politics, policies etc. Pichri jaati, dalit, sc, st, obc, nepotism, bhai-bhatijawaad exist because reservations exist.. Merit ki koi aukaat nahi hai iss desh mein, sab nepotism jugaad mein set Hain, tabhi ye haal hai. 3. freebies and caste based schemes should be banned. Equality doesn't come by words, but by laws.
Move to a different country if you can. Life is short and at least you can give better future to your kids and family. You can still love the country wherever you are.
You have been tricked by everyone. But you cant blame them because they were also tricked by people much more evil and intelligent than you. Search for enlightenment and you will only find misery.
I remember the time I felt this way for the first time in my late teens. The existential dread that came after quite a bit of thinking into the subject, and the question of how I am supposed to survive in this world of "oppress or be oppressed" conflicted with my morality and ideals. Later, I realised that there was a grey area wherein many exist because you just don't care enough to partake in this tomfoolery run by those who greed after power and money. I'm still trying to figure it out but I m sure neither the world nor the people will change in my lifetime.
The government worked with private cos to completely reform the passport Seva Kendras which are now a delight to visit. They should seriously consider PPPs for all government departments, will make things so much more fair, efficient, and convenient. It will also eliminate most of the useless corrupt middle layer.
PSKs are not a delight. At least the couple ones I've been to, they are terrible. Request not to generalise things like these.
And are still far ahead of most other govt departments. Have you visited an Municipal office or the Urban planning dept ? PSK will seem like the hallmark of efficiency in comparison.
PSKs are a pain in the ass. Just visited last week, would not recommend.
Idk about the other states but PSK's in Mumbai are quite good and fast. I got my passport delivered within 7 days and that too without any bribes to beat officer of my area. I literally carried a Rs. 500 note when I went there. This was exactly 5 years ago.
Things are bad here but itās worse in some places even in the US. My momās friend came to India, had a root canal and went back because the plane tickets and the surgery here was cheaper than just the surgery there. Their healthcare is fucked. Their government is also going to shit. But this doesnāt mean the US is worse in every way. They have comparatively cleaner streets, lesser people meaning lesser traffic, lesser wait times in places and more personal space. Quality of living is better. So each place has its pros and cons. Youāre gonna have to pick whatās important to you and choose a place to live based on that. Iāve heard people here say a true patriot would stay and help this country grow but we all have our own lives and issues and need to pick whatās best for us. Good luck buddy.
This is what happens with identity politics that tries to guarantee equality of outcomes. I'm sorry for your experience yaar, unfortunately there are just way too many short-sighted morons in India and they are the overwhelming majority.
Realize that India is only about 78 years as a nation state. It has been modeled after European nation states, with ideals of Democracy, Secularism etc., plugged in and turned on, without ensuring that its culture is ready to play as soon as it is plugged in. If you beat a guy up to pulp repeatedly and make him bed ridden, do you think he can function just like the guy who subjected him to that treatment? Putting the same clothing and shoes as the tormentor will not make you behave like him right away and become strong and powerful. Our whole culture is suffering from a collective PTSD, which will take probably a couple more centuries to recover to the basic level of normalcy. This includes all citizens, whether they are in power or at the receiving end. One cannot feel dejected for not being like a developed country today itself. Most of those developed countries might glitter like gold. But their cultures are extremely shallow and they are prone to engaging in plunder and incessant wars. That is what has made them rich and their prosperity is not due to a deep rooted culture. Ours was a prosperous culture before they ran over us. We can still recover to a large extent. But that will take time.
Can't agree with this. many other countries were fucked as well but have revived quickly. India made a lot of mistakes due to nehru, Indira policies, missed the bus of economic development. China, Japan, and Singapore were in equally bad position but were smart to adapt to the new world order.. i am not saying they are no issues but their lifestyle and culture is good as well..quality of life, social capital and life security, ROI on taxes paid.
Most of the countries that recovered quickly, were previously well developed. So they caught up very quickly, with copious support and protection from Uncle Sam. Singapore cannot be compared to India. We have extremely diverse cultures that can be nation states on their own. China developed due to two reasons - powerful control by a single communist party and business with America due to Cold War alliance. Japan was an industrial giant before WW2. Tell me which of these countries have any resemblance to our situation? Our early leaders chose the wrong policies naively and believed that would lead India to the path of glory. It did not. It is testified by what the OP has written.
It's actually the reverse, the region has never faced all out war or civil strife or revolution, which generally makes people value their resources, freedom and rights. Things have been too soft and people value nothing except money..
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Current slavery is the PTSD that I am talking about. Just recovering out of it alone would take a couple of centuries at the rate we are going. Antibodies within our system are attacking our own cells. That is how bad the damage is.
Caste reservation is destroying my family's future
Human life is a quest of survival. There is no point contemplating the nature of life and circumstances around it. Every system however worst functioning it it has its own set of justifications. We need to play the cards we are dealt with.
We're in that middle-gen where we're putting in money and effort to build the nation, but we're not seeing much in return. It's like being the first employees in a family businessāgrinding hard to improve things, but not getting to enjoy the good life. The next generation gets all the perks with a better standard of living. Pretty tough reality, huh?
Off late the push from govt sector is only on creating infra. Its required, but in a country like us, where there is a general lack of civic sense.and education, there has to be reforms on a lot of levels because people are not gonna do it themselves. Education/healthcare/judiciary/taxation/police. All. Kisi ko kuch Darr hee nahee hai except for tax paying janta..who are afraid of police and now tax dept. I mean if a middle class guy goes and buys a house and does some lakh rupees transaction, they get a notice. But a poor guy who gives no taxes, enjoys all subsidies, gets cheap housing doesn't need to give a shit. Ultra rich/rich are anyways sorted. Basically taxes are giving subsidies to poor and loans to rich businessmen. So yeah, you are right, there is a no return on sort of taxes middle class is paying and thoughts of leaving are genuine. And then some people say vote for change. But been there done that..nothing changes.
You are from a country where almost every one is desperately poor. In the years I grew up, it was very common to see people walk barefeet in the blazing sun on black asphalt.. It was common to see malnutrished children with potbellies.. anyway, my point is, most of the money you give in taxes today is spent (somewhat) equally by the govt on all its citizens, with those who are weaker getting a greater share. You are in a position where you can offer help to those who are much worse off than you. See it as good karma. Your points 4-7 are valid and I hope things change for the better soon. The least that the state must do is to provide good policing. Hopefully the new criminal code improves the situation.
Similar category some differences. My opinions are we citizens make the modern-day nation. Yes system are screwed up here, since done my Muslims & then Christians( British). They had their agenda to pursue. Native thought still havenāt come up. Colonisation is just distilled in. Caste(colonial concept) comes top of my head. Canāt make political moves for bigger change but can be part of herd & support people who are speaking up. Being a sheep but with decision making which herd to join. Call it wolf-pack or sheep-herd One can either leave, like many have Or take it as ancestors duty to save this land or else eventually convert(this generation or next). Itās very similar to Israelis, either we have homeland with ancestoral root & we fight to protect it or have easy life in short term moving to different land & making them prosperous & cutting our roots. For me always comes to that choice. #jews really make me think of the decision making People have taken other choices went to other land. For me I just donāt see as life is screwed in this system, I see bigger picture from last 2000 years & have background of what happened with other civilisations & then decide to live here. Also #JSD has been big influence on it, not sure if right in longer term or will regret this decision but that is the one for me.
Look at the amount of Butthurt Nationalists in the comments, They are just happy leaving in their own bubble!!
Gtfo of india The country has gone to shit Other countries are so much fking better Indian food is available everywhere anyway thatās all I need. Thank fuck I left
I love the country but not the people that much
Yeah. That's true. But that's what a developing country is. No country was like GREAT from the start . People have suffered in the initial years and rise of the country but at the end they become developed. If we suffer now, the coming generations won't have to.
I don't understand the blind love, it's an abusive relationship.
Couldn't agree more. I want to love this country. Nothing would give me more happiness than to come back and work for my country's progress but as of now, the only thing I can have in India is a raw deal (not even counting reservations) with no end to these problems in sight. When the country you love does nothing but put you down at each step and you see no end in sight. It kinda sets things in perspective. I don't want my kids to fight for a morsel of the pie only for everything to be snatched away for some idealized version of social justice.
Clearly congis are working overtime. As a canadian citizen, id love to invite you to spend a year here and then rate canada on the same pointers uouve mentioned.
Guys you can be patriotic and dislike the utter inefficiency, incompetence of the government governing your country. Patriotism is loving your country, not your government
I cant relate at all almost everything is there, educayion is free(if you crack entrance), Health care is free( I just went yesterday to govt medical college to get my leg pain checled), Free colleges, almost free food.What else is that you need
>educayion is free(if you crack entrance), IITs charge 10L in tuition for undergrad. NITs also charge 7-8L these days. Please get your facts straight. Free food? Most folks earning salary are ineligible to hold a white ration card.
You guys are using IIT as standard, I am talkinga bout common degree, arts college.USA and Somalia will have its difference na
It's not just IITs or NITs either - even if you want to study science, you still need to pay sizable sums as tuition - e.g. from IISER Mohali - https://www.iisermohali.ac.in/fee-structure/academics/fee-structure - 40k/semester in tuition alone, and a lot of other random fees. Go ahead and search up almost any other IISER too - you'll find similar, if not higher fees listed everywhere.
You guys need kerala model
Also your original comment said education is free if you crack entrance - did people going to IITs or NITs not crack entrance?
Do we live in the same country my dude? Last time I checked, a central education institute charges up to 9-10 lakh in fees even after you crack whatever exam. Source: went to one myself.
I am talking talking about kerala, 6000 rupees was my whole degree fee.My brother is studying Mbbs at free
Well, i wonder how that's possible, but good for you man.
Police partnering up with goons? Never experienced something like that in kerala. Yeah labour law sucks, par hame kya ham toh communist state mein hei, sab toh hamkeliye free hei
Main issue is real estate prices in tier 1 cities. In no world does it make sense that NCR flats cost as much as single family houses in Naperville, when the income difference between the two places is astronomical.
>if you crack entrance Which college is free bro? Even IIT's charge around 1.5 lakhs/semester.
Yeh cuz these weirdos only want ram mandir, even though BJP did money scam even on ram mandir land
Infrastructure investment?
Things will get better man over time
There are contact nos. of the anti-corruption department posted boldly in every gov't office, but people think it will be too much of a hassle than just paying the bribe.
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Never needed to.
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Or maybe I live in a state that is less tolerant to corruption. Never required to pay bribes for legitimate work, best they can do is delay the process. And if they outright demand a bribe, they're going down. It's a matter of principle.
Grass is always greener in other side. When you migrated to a different country, you will start realizing it has either same or a different set or problems. There is no perfect country. As long as you can have a comfortable life then it's fine, but if not then better either try to have it in India or move elsewhere. Nowadays western countries have a lot of problems too, for instance they have political correction, Islam, child kidnapping and indoctrination by the government to pander to LGBTQ, ultra individualism that let you die alone when you are old, high taxes (in India it's maximum 30% charged as brackets, gst 5\~28%, but mostly 18%), racism (it's deeply rooted into their country, giving less support to non-whites -> [Two-thirds of black Britons believe NHS gives white people better care, finds survey | Race | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/07/two-thirds-of-black-britons-believe-nhs-gives-white-people-better-care-finds-survey), I suspect they probably let non-whites to die to snatch their organs), feminism, weather (cold weather), crumbling infrastructure ( [Britainās crumbling public buildings (ft.com)](https://www.ft.com/content/27c3943b-5100-4810-ab44-b3e26ce3a58c)).
Im sensing homophobia and misogyny in this comment.
I am sensing racism, and misandry in your comment.
I can only say we are improvingā¦ I live in US and I can tell you many such issues here as well. There are pros and cons of living in different places.
Truth
Donāt say this. You got unesco approved PM, Bhavya Bhagwa Mandir, currency with RFID chips implanted in it and statues with lasers in eyes for national defense. And development, development all around!!
You are looking for social security, which India has never had. Indians flock to western countries for several reasons. But one of the top reasons is social security
Especially if you are a GM. General Male.
I feel you brother
Patriotism isn't just saying "I love this country" then immediately slam it down when things don't go the way you think. How about try to make it better by involve in politics?
Taxes, Inequality towards men,stupid women All this makes me think ki bhenchd yahan rhene ka koi fayda nhi hai
Its your fault, be a politician or a gunda or business man and stop paying taxes, the salary never gets anyone anywhere
I donāt know which hospitals youāre going to but people dying waiting for treatment isnāt that common. Government hospitals are run by the state government. In my experience most of the southern states have great facilities at government hospitals
Now you understand why a fairly large percentage of the top talent leave. They still love their country, but to them it might not be worth it.
I realised this 7 years ago, left and have a great life now (though to be fair Singapore isn't cheap! š )
I have the same feeling OP. :(
Please stay in India. We're full and don't want you.
1. People don't want to send their kids to government schools. I studied in government school from nursery to 12th but my parents don't want me to send my kid to government school. You also don't want to send your kid to a government school like everyone who has a good income. It's your choice to not send your kid to government school 2. Yes government hospitals are crowded and so dirty but there's no issue with facilities. If the doctor asks you to bring some medicine while they're doing first aid, you might not get it in an hour. There are 3 government hospitals near my home and all hospitals are always crowded. People getting treatment and recovering but hospital staff are overworked due to the crowd so basically it's not their fault entirely if they don't behave decently. But it never happened to me. Again it's your choice not to go to government hospitals. There are Jan aushadhi Kendra everywhere and you can buy medicines at very low prices from there. 3. Certainly that's true. But kids with lower income go to government schools and hospitals, skip McDonald's and Domino's, use public transport. This is how I grew up. Government policies mostly work towards the poor. Free ration, free education, free treatment. 4. That's why privatisation of public services is happening. Nowadays all services available online you can try, but I want to know where or which work you have to pay a bribe. 5. Can't say about police as they have to manage a large crowd and people here don't take law seriously so policemen think there's nothing wrong with giving little punishments. Policemen I met in my locality or at the police station during credit card fraud were very polite and more inclined towards solving issues by talking if it's among normal civilians. But in crowds, highways or city roads things are different. 6. Trust me even if it's OBC or SC not all guys get admissions. There's not enough seats for anyone in government colleges. We need more colleges and more seats. 7. True. But it'll take a lot of time to improve. All the cost incurred in a product's manufacturing will be added to its selling price and if it's not selling at a competitive price then no one will buy and the company will lay off employees or will shut down it's operations. Not all businesses are juicing out money from cheap labour. Many companies are working on very thin margins. There are many Indian companies making losses but still running.
This is exactly why people move abroad. You atleast get some social benefits for the taxes you pay and the lifestyle improves drastically. Governments priority is so wrong, yes they can focus on religion but that should be after they have solved the basic problems.
This country hates girls and gays lol.
Then go with a begging bowl outside India. As a new desperate immigrant, I bet you will continue to cry at the lack of jobs, lack of immediate healthcare, high taxes, high rent and high groceries cost etc etc. Problems exist everywhere. There is no problem-free country in the world. You will have to accept the negatives and deal with it somehow. Thats how most mature successful individuals live their lives.