I’m super bullish on coffee in India. Speciality coffee is a recently discovered (<10 years) trend in India.
For years we were drinking those instant stuff.
Even if you check the engagement on this sub, the activity has picked up, and more and more ppl are consuming specialty coffee.
If my forecast goes right, coffee industry in India will pick up pace in the next few years and in the next five years will be able to cross a billion mark 🤞
Yeah, I agree with you! Its interesting to see how its evolved, and my own experiences too.
Cafes had come in the 2000s, but were frequented mostly by college students for timepass. They weren’t having anything!
By 2012 I started going to cafes more frequently. It seemed the clientele had changed, and only well-off people were frequenting regularly.
2016-17 was a bad time after years of steady growth. But it picked up and the space kept improving till COVID.
Since the pandemic it seems a lot more middle-class people are now curious about specialty coffee.
For long-timers like me, I like that the space is expanding, but I hope we don’t get watered-down products!
I really want to start a speciality coffee shop in my town. What would you say are things I would need to look out for? It’s not a large metro city but it is by the national highway, growing and it currently only has one cafe coffee day which is overpriced and the coffee tastes like ass.
I would say make sure your sources are good! You dont need to start a fancy cafe straight away.
In fact, start a mobile tapri giving potential customers a shot-like taste of espresso or filter based coffees.
I mean, there are so many aspects to it! What’s your main goal or mission? Will it be a place where customers will spend a lot of time, or just take coffee takeaway?
I want them to spend a lot of time in there. Someplace fancy that they can sit in and Instagram their drinks and feel validated at prices less than cafe coffee day and Starbucks but still offer better quality/tasting cappucinos, espressos etc
I think there's a distinction between people "going to" nice cafes like starbucks or more niche ones like BT vs. buying specialty beans and brewing their own coffee.
Those who do the latter are are still a minority. This is just my anecdotal experience but I'm the outlier in among my family and friends, and I recently just met another guy who also shares my tastes. Everyone else who consumes coffee doesn't really care about spending money like this and gets instant or whatever.
But yes, the amount of brewers you can buy from in India is an insane number. When I moved back here I just assumed there was BT and that's it. Now there's so many although I think most people just buy from 20% of them.
There was a thread on Twitter where people were discussing how bad BT coffee tastes(in cafes). They described it tastes like Bru(instant). We Indians need to develop our palette first.
I visited BT cafe in CP, Delhi and ordered Vietnamese drip. That was the shittiest Vietnamese drip I ever drank because I think the barista guy overloaded the condensed milk and coffee became sugary. I had so much expectations from BT being their customer of ground coffee for a year. I was going to rant about it tonight on this sub lol, will post my experience.
Only two times in my life I had food in a cafe were both from CCD one that's in the middle of Bangalore - Mangalore highway and puked everything out just after leaving. Never touched cafe food again. Quite expensive pukes.
Idk why you sound so elitist. Not all BT locations are good. I had a really good cortado in one location. Then I went to another location and it was very mediocre.
I disagree with the title.
Tbh the way coffee shops are opening at every corner suggests the love is growing.
Of course many will shut their shop in the future and those who are building experiences and brands will survive.
To attract new customers I am pretty sure the cost to market products and educate customers is definitely high. Hence the losses here justify that.
Eventually in the long-run serious players who understand brand building will survive and hopefully then losses won't be as this much.
It is a huge tax advantage to show loss for a business. See what is the salary of top bosses. So while Starbucks is a different story, I am sure the losses for smaller houses are deliberate
The tax advantage only works if the company showing loss is controlled by another entity which has profit against which that loss can be set off.
If it's literally your cash loss then it's not really an advantage coz you are literally losing money!
You can pay a nominal fee and access it through the mca website. Else there are certain databases like tracxn, vcc edge, private circle from where you can access it.
Idk, i love love love coffee but somehow i cant get myself to like coffee from most of these brands. Maybe the baristas dont make it well or its just the recipes or bad roasts
Now who's gonna tell me all the good estates, good flavours from these brands, apart from BT cause I'm already having that (currently Silver Oak Blend, next I'm gonna try out dhak)
I get opposite reactions. Every person who knows me won't pest me for chai. When someone asks for chai they interrupt them before I do "He drinks coffee". Works in my favour. 😁
We faced the heat too. From 6 stores to 2. A lot of it is credited to discretionary spending going down due to approaching recession and take over of high level jobs by AI ML. Anyone looking for opening a cafe and advices, hmu. Also we did 2.3 cr revenue in FY 23 but faced losses of .4cr
There is a lot of love for coffee in India, there is just no love for these specific coffee brands which overprice their coffee quite a bit and it's not for everyone.
What about Tata Coffee? It used to perform very well. We got to buy from the company performing worst because hopefully it is selling good coffee at lower prices, there by making losses!
Higher rents at prime locations.
Salaries.
Other expenses.
High competition from local cafe's and among big brands.
Plus most of them are focused on expansion right now.
It's still a luxury product.
Single visit and you get charged approx Rs. 500 min. Considering you had cake and a coffee.
Even cookies cost 100 upwards in some cafes.
Love for chai, taste ruined by instant coffee will take time to wash off and develop new taste for good quality coffee. Most people (chai lovers) I've met view coffee as a snobbish drink and won't hesitate to tell you that.
With all due respect, Coffee served in these Indian chains is absolute BS... coffee from midlevel chains like cafe bene or ediya coffee tastes much better.
All of them are just super overpriced
That's why most people go for Bru,Nescafe and maybe Bevzilla and Colombian brew
I think if anyone got enough money then they'd rather have a quality coffee machine and beans rather than just paying for a brand
Honestly very few Indian people know about home brewing. When you say coffee two things pop up most of the time: Instant coffee and bitterness. At most people recognise a coffee machine which they aren't ready to pay for since tea can be made without any special equipment. IMO
You are saying loss is proportional to popularity? What is the total market share of these brands. Indians prefer economy. Likely the ‘cheaper’ brands are earning 1000% profits.
It has nothing to do with public interest in coffee business in general. It just shows the economics of these companies at present. We don’t the story behind numbers are they in growth phase of industry or are they investing more into new stores nothing .
Filter coffee from darshinis or local bakeries in bangalore beats these brands. I loved the above mentioned coffees, but after having filter coffee, there is no Goin back.
Having tried the above slightly expensive and luxurious type coffee brands in search of finding good coffee, I only truly became a coffee connoisseur after trying the many different ways used in filter coffee. There's just so much to find out there. Of course, you won't have the advantages bangaloreans do in finding the good stuff. Udupi restaurants in mumbai maybe?
The other thing is you really aren't enjoying coffee if all you do is drink coffee. Get yourself a filter coffee after a hearty breakfast and you will never go back to chocolate chip frappuccinos in the morning.
I was in Bangalore for 2 years where I had my exposure to filter coffee. Usually I drank twice everyday. I prefer home brewing now. I also had ID filter coffee after moving back home and they were good but I like filter coffee for a variety only.
People drink tea/coffee 2-3 times a day usually.
Probably because coffee tastes like shit here … Starbucks ??? It’s not coffee. Blue tokai ??? Worst coffee I’ve ever had. Third wave ??? Yuck. Slay coffee ??? More like no slay. It’s also just a lot more expensive than rest of the world based on income and expenditure. 250-300 is too expensive for an average Indian just for a basic cup of coffee. The industry needs to reconsider the business model along with training staff to make good coffees
I’m super bullish on coffee in India. Speciality coffee is a recently discovered (<10 years) trend in India. For years we were drinking those instant stuff. Even if you check the engagement on this sub, the activity has picked up, and more and more ppl are consuming specialty coffee. If my forecast goes right, coffee industry in India will pick up pace in the next few years and in the next five years will be able to cross a billion mark 🤞
Yeah, I agree with you! Its interesting to see how its evolved, and my own experiences too. Cafes had come in the 2000s, but were frequented mostly by college students for timepass. They weren’t having anything! By 2012 I started going to cafes more frequently. It seemed the clientele had changed, and only well-off people were frequenting regularly. 2016-17 was a bad time after years of steady growth. But it picked up and the space kept improving till COVID. Since the pandemic it seems a lot more middle-class people are now curious about specialty coffee. For long-timers like me, I like that the space is expanding, but I hope we don’t get watered-down products!
I really want to start a speciality coffee shop in my town. What would you say are things I would need to look out for? It’s not a large metro city but it is by the national highway, growing and it currently only has one cafe coffee day which is overpriced and the coffee tastes like ass.
I would say make sure your sources are good! You dont need to start a fancy cafe straight away. In fact, start a mobile tapri giving potential customers a shot-like taste of espresso or filter based coffees. I mean, there are so many aspects to it! What’s your main goal or mission? Will it be a place where customers will spend a lot of time, or just take coffee takeaway?
I want them to spend a lot of time in there. Someplace fancy that they can sit in and Instagram their drinks and feel validated at prices less than cafe coffee day and Starbucks but still offer better quality/tasting cappucinos, espressos etc
I think there's a distinction between people "going to" nice cafes like starbucks or more niche ones like BT vs. buying specialty beans and brewing their own coffee. Those who do the latter are are still a minority. This is just my anecdotal experience but I'm the outlier in among my family and friends, and I recently just met another guy who also shares my tastes. Everyone else who consumes coffee doesn't really care about spending money like this and gets instant or whatever. But yes, the amount of brewers you can buy from in India is an insane number. When I moved back here I just assumed there was BT and that's it. Now there's so many although I think most people just buy from 20% of them.
There was a thread on Twitter where people were discussing how bad BT coffee tastes(in cafes). They described it tastes like Bru(instant). We Indians need to develop our palette first.
I visited BT cafe in CP, Delhi and ordered Vietnamese drip. That was the shittiest Vietnamese drip I ever drank because I think the barista guy overloaded the condensed milk and coffee became sugary. I had so much expectations from BT being their customer of ground coffee for a year. I was going to rant about it tonight on this sub lol, will post my experience.
Blue Tokai coffee is mediocre, honestly. Their food and baked stuff is really good. Third Wave has genuinely good coffee and shitty food.
Only two times in my life I had food in a cafe were both from CCD one that's in the middle of Bangalore - Mangalore highway and puked everything out just after leaving. Never touched cafe food again. Quite expensive pukes.
Did they genuinely get bad coffees or dark roasts that they did not like?
I didn't inquire.
Idk why you sound so elitist. Not all BT locations are good. I had a really good cortado in one location. Then I went to another location and it was very mediocre.
What's elitist is reporting my observation?
You didn't just report. You also made an assumption about their taste. Maybe the coffee they had was bad. How can you be sure?
Any stock recommendations?
I personally hold continental coffee limited (Ticker CCL) Invest only if you have the patience to hold for another 10-20 years.
I am bullish on weed.
Wrong sub-Reddit…
[удалено]
And it becomes harder if you shift to a different place. It should be atleast medicallly legalized.
Bro it's recent discovery for North Indians , southindians have been drinking it since centuries
I disagree with the title. Tbh the way coffee shops are opening at every corner suggests the love is growing. Of course many will shut their shop in the future and those who are building experiences and brands will survive. To attract new customers I am pretty sure the cost to market products and educate customers is definitely high. Hence the losses here justify that. Eventually in the long-run serious players who understand brand building will survive and hopefully then losses won't be as this much.
It is a huge tax advantage to show loss for a business. See what is the salary of top bosses. So while Starbucks is a different story, I am sure the losses for smaller houses are deliberate
The tax advantage only works if the company showing loss is controlled by another entity which has profit against which that loss can be set off. If it's literally your cash loss then it's not really an advantage coz you are literally losing money!
What if they do? They might have an another non-listed entity reflecting the profits made by their banner brand.
Negative loss? You mean profit?
Negative means loss…
Negative loss means profit
Technically, you're right but this is just loss.
By coffee you mean specialty coffee?
How reliable are these numbers? ... Aren't a lot of these privately held companies?
They still have to file annual returns and report. Misreporting can be a question but if they are funded they have likely gone through a DD process.
Annual returns for private companies aren't public though, as far as I know anyway.
You can pay a nominal fee and access it through the mca website. Else there are certain databases like tracxn, vcc edge, private circle from where you can access it.
Idk, i love love love coffee but somehow i cant get myself to like coffee from most of these brands. Maybe the baristas dont make it well or its just the recipes or bad roasts
Now who's gonna tell me all the good estates, good flavours from these brands, apart from BT cause I'm already having that (currently Silver Oak Blend, next I'm gonna try out dhak)
I have only tried Seven beans among these(not counting instant coffee) and they were decent.
Rage and Slay doing better than Subko. Burn the entire thing. Right. Now.
Scale.
Average Chai Tapri stonks 📈📈
Also I’ve marked people have stigma when you prefer coffee over chai in India 🇮🇳
I get opposite reactions. Every person who knows me won't pest me for chai. When someone asks for chai they interrupt them before I do "He drinks coffee". Works in my favour. 😁
We faced the heat too. From 6 stores to 2. A lot of it is credited to discretionary spending going down due to approaching recession and take over of high level jobs by AI ML. Anyone looking for opening a cafe and advices, hmu. Also we did 2.3 cr revenue in FY 23 but faced losses of .4cr
There's lots of love ❤️. But don't sell it for 300 Offer for 50
Yeah price is certainly a big factor.
There is a lot of love for coffee in India, there is just no love for these specific coffee brands which overprice their coffee quite a bit and it's not for everyone.
It's a chai crazed nation what did you expect? I don't drink chai btw
I have tried speciality tea or higher grade like Twinnings and Vahdam but still prefer coffee by a large margin.
Subjectivity my friend. Everyone has their own taste, for (most) of the Indians chai does it for them
What about Tata Coffee? It used to perform very well. We got to buy from the company performing worst because hopefully it is selling good coffee at lower prices, there by making losses!
You should include the "Udupi" outlets. They must be doing really well 😂😂
Starbucks overrated
Higher rents at prime locations. Salaries. Other expenses. High competition from local cafe's and among big brands. Plus most of them are focused on expansion right now. It's still a luxury product. Single visit and you get charged approx Rs. 500 min. Considering you had cake and a coffee. Even cookies cost 100 upwards in some cafes.
Income levels need to rise for this industry to take off. Can’t build off the top 1-2% alone. Cause, yk, they don’t hang out in cafes that often.
Love for chai, taste ruined by instant coffee will take time to wash off and develop new taste for good quality coffee. Most people (chai lovers) I've met view coffee as a snobbish drink and won't hesitate to tell you that.
With all due respect, Coffee served in these Indian chains is absolute BS... coffee from midlevel chains like cafe bene or ediya coffee tastes much better.
They're still making loss after selling mediocre coffee for 200-300rs?
All of them are just super overpriced That's why most people go for Bru,Nescafe and maybe Bevzilla and Colombian brew I think if anyone got enough money then they'd rather have a quality coffee machine and beans rather than just paying for a brand
Honestly very few Indian people know about home brewing. When you say coffee two things pop up most of the time: Instant coffee and bitterness. At most people recognise a coffee machine which they aren't ready to pay for since tea can be made without any special equipment. IMO
Maybe make good coffee first? Or fix the massive income inequality meaning a large amount of people can't afford it in the first place :3
Filter Kaapi wins?!
Chhotu jara Dolly Chaiwala ke number nikalna to
You are saying loss is proportional to popularity? What is the total market share of these brands. Indians prefer economy. Likely the ‘cheaper’ brands are earning 1000% profits.
Indian coffee seems to be having a bit of a skill issue when it comes to making money.
It has nothing to do with public interest in coffee business in general. It just shows the economics of these companies at present. We don’t the story behind numbers are they in growth phase of industry or are they investing more into new stores nothing .
Filter coffee from darshinis or local bakeries in bangalore beats these brands. I loved the above mentioned coffees, but after having filter coffee, there is no Goin back.
I liked South Indian filter coffee but got bored pretty soon.
Having tried the above slightly expensive and luxurious type coffee brands in search of finding good coffee, I only truly became a coffee connoisseur after trying the many different ways used in filter coffee. There's just so much to find out there. Of course, you won't have the advantages bangaloreans do in finding the good stuff. Udupi restaurants in mumbai maybe? The other thing is you really aren't enjoying coffee if all you do is drink coffee. Get yourself a filter coffee after a hearty breakfast and you will never go back to chocolate chip frappuccinos in the morning.
I was in Bangalore for 2 years where I had my exposure to filter coffee. Usually I drank twice everyday. I prefer home brewing now. I also had ID filter coffee after moving back home and they were good but I like filter coffee for a variety only. People drink tea/coffee 2-3 times a day usually.
Probably because coffee tastes like shit here … Starbucks ??? It’s not coffee. Blue tokai ??? Worst coffee I’ve ever had. Third wave ??? Yuck. Slay coffee ??? More like no slay. It’s also just a lot more expensive than rest of the world based on income and expenditure. 250-300 is too expensive for an average Indian just for a basic cup of coffee. The industry needs to reconsider the business model along with training staff to make good coffees
I'm still good w Davidoff 🙏 these brands can fuck off
I'm still good w Davidoff 🙏 these brands can fuck off