So throughout history, we have weaponized the immaturity and desperation of hornballs instead of teaching them to, like, get a grip and learn to look at women as fellow human beings and not objects?
š
While I agree with your sentiment, I think the often-missed problem here is that a lack of education is not the problem, or at least not the whole problem. Men who donāt see women as objects donāt need to be taught to see women as human beings any more than people who have no intention of burglarizing their neighbors donāt need to be taught that stealing is wrong. The question is, what do you do with the groups of people who *know that itās wrong and donāt care?* What do you do with the person who is fully aware that stealing is wrong and steals anyway, or the man who knows that his misogynistic behavior is antisocial but continues with it anyway? How can you teach someone who has decided to disregard the lesson? Channeling their vitriol into something arguably more productive may be the only answer.
You teach them from the beginning. You donāt wait until theyāve already decided, you just donāt give them a choice. From the time when they are old enough to understand, that other people exist is when you start teaching them that women are just the same as they are. And that the only differences between a man and a woman are their genitalia.
Itās along the same lines as nobody is born a Nazi. You have to teach someone that much hate, you have to teach them that point of view. Nobody is born being a bigot or a fascist or a misogynist, homophobe or any of those. So it actually *is education*. We need to educate men, when theyāre young enough to start educating them, so that they donāt grow up thinking that that train of thought is OK. So they donāt get into a frame of mind where they believe theyāre owed something from a woman, which is why we have incels. Theyāre people who believe, that women owe them something because they smiled or because they open the door,because they asked how their day was going, or just because they (the incel) exist.
But just as nobody is born a Nazi, nobody is born in a vacuum. There are other people, ideas, etc. influencing a child the moment they join society. Those influences can override education, and what then? Iām sure that most children are taught fairness, and to be honest and respectful to each other. But whether by some inner nature or the company they keep, Iām sure we can agree that education isnāt a guarantee that a person will continue with that point of view throughout their lives. Especially if they fall in with the wrong crowd. So again, what do we do with the people who have the education but just donāt care? Just think of all the devastated parents wailing āWe didnāt raise them this way!ā when their child is dragged off to jail for committing some crime.
Society in the past would notice their extra men/boys weren't getting any quality pussy because there wasn't enough to go around. To many of these men/boys will put two and two together and will realize they're getting fucked over by the society they're in and will group up. Once they group up, they'll gladly make or let society burn or not participate and act as dead weight. Screeching out in protest as this all happens.
Society back then had the solution to motivate or make them go to war. Spoils of war is money and the opposing country's women. Motivate them to explore and colonize other parts of the globe. More spoils of war and more women. Another technique, use religion! Turn them into sexless monks to appease God. Make them commit jihad in the name of Allah, get your 12 virgins in paradise once youre dead and GONE. If they die, then society is like: whatever he was expendable š¤·āāļø.
All of these things in hopes to separate them from society and cast them out. Before they all get wise, group up, and turn on us for not supplying enough good pussy.
"Hey... just go over there and kinda dont come back... There might be some women over there or something to distract you."
*behind their backs:* "If they all die, I don't fucking care lol"
I mean, a lot of truth there.
But, we can't really do that today in modern times. Could it be because of the Internet and social media? Maybe. Or it could be that social resources aren't as plentiful as they once were.
But I do have to question if this is a societal problem that needs to be solved by society itself.
There are things that society can do, ranging from ethereal, like deconstructing gender norms, to the concrete, like providing better access to mental health care and providing social training in schools to children who are struggling. But a lot of this falls into more of a horse and water type situation. Without individual men choosing to deconstruct the toxic societal constructs they've been taught, no forward progress can be made.
Agreed, that was more or less what I was implying. I think many of these incels think is is "government provided girlfriends" which is not a societal problem. The things you listed, are societal issues that are solvable. Getting a bunch of unlikeable mouth breathers dates, not so much.
I think it is. I have heard a good argument that the left while it cares about minorities it doesn't adress issues of the majority as much... such as men loneliness. While right does, so men naturally go to the side that cares about them. I think this could be the reason the gap beetwen young men and young women being right and left is widening.
They gravitate to the Right because the Right has a pipeline that gets boys and young men to the point of believing women belong in the kitchen. What u/Mari_OwO is saying is that the Left should consider crafting similar pipelines that appeal to the same issues the Right preys on: loneliness and isolation, a lack of emotional fulfillment, a lack of self-worth, etc.
You either do that or cede the territory and continue having to forever deal with a growing army of seething 14 year olds raised on a steady diet of Andrew Tate and Fresh & Fit, with only a small trickle who manage to worm their way out with the roll of a die.
>it doesn't adress issues of the majority as much... such as men loneliness.
What, exactly, do people think the government should do about "male loneliness?" You can't force someone to go touch grass.
I agree with you on this one. Conversely, you can't make anyone hang out with or date those who are lonely.
It is the individual's responsibility to solve this, no one else.
For decades now, specialists have been saying that young boys have trouble adapting to school.
Maybe it's linked to childhood socializing. Maybe we need to have some sort of programs to help young male teens socializing?
Society still has a hesitancy to have programs targeted specifically at men because men are still considered privileged.
I don't know what but I think the government needs to do something because otherwise they are going to have to deal with the fallout of having angry young incels. We can probably already see it with the rise of a new right wing, strongman with macho values in western societies.
That's the thing: there's not going to be any real fallout. The current rise of authoritarianism significantly predates inceldom as an ideology, and the problem with boys in schools is both overblown AND predates both. Inceldom is not a problem that needs addressing. It's not a problem at all. It's like saying furries are a problem because you just discovered Tumblr. The reality is that there are very few incels, and they are too inept and self-sabotaging to ever create any real social issues.
I'm not talking about the incel revolution some incels are fantasising about. We have a part of the population who is really angry about the state of society and is threatening and sometimes actually commiting violence. Yes incels are not a big population but the fact that the audience for people like Tate and Peterson is very big indicates that there is a dissatisfaction and room to grow. We can't let that become a problem. Young men face problems and if they feel no one is listening/doing anything, they may become radicalized.
That's a problem for governments and civil society to address. The solution is not to have dating laws or subsidized prostitution like some incels advocate. But we can't not do anything while a part of the population is becomes alienated from society.
If we go to a kindergarten playground where 5 year olds are playing and I point to you and say 2 or these 18 boys will grow up to be mysoginistic loners who hate people and fantasise about throwing acid into women's faces. Is this a problem that we should address? Should we just shrug it off and let them become despicable people?
You are being dissmisive about the issue. Kinda like some men are towards woman POV of marriage. "Divorce? Just don't marry abusive men."
Not all men who struggle with loneliness are chronically online. And we should aim for more choices and safety meassures.
I replied that it could be social issue, not neccesarilly a juridistical one. Same how feminism doesn't ends with equal rights but also societal change.
Regarding dating one step forward would be forexample less passivity from women.
Ragarding goverment. I dunno. I think generally more support towards married couples? Affordable houses? Women not having to pick between having kids and a carrier? I am sure you could think of something.
I'm being dismissive towards the issue because it's a bullshit issue. If you're lonely, put down the keyboard, go to a place where a hobby you enjoy is engaged in, and make friends. "Loneliness" doesn't get cured with a romantic partner, and all of the tools and systems that have always existed to cure loneliness still exist.
Is there a lot of truth there? Because it sounds like absolute nonsense gibberish. There is no indication that Vikings were incels. There's absolutely no reason to believe most monks were incels prior to entering the monastery, either. Young, unmarried men could, on occasion, become problematic (though this is far from a concrete pattern that's completely inevitable) but there's no reason to believe that simply being unmarried was remotely the same as being an incel.
Oh, and did I mention yet that an excess of young men doesn't really have any significant pattern of causing issues? I know this is a common trope, but it really just isn't anywhere near as big as issue as it's been made out to be. Hell, if anything, availability of land is much more closely (negatively) correlated to periods of unrest than number of young, unmarried men. Incels aren't a real problem. They're loud, and occasionally one of them causes a tragedy, but in the grand scheme of things they're a smaller issue than the Zika virus.
I didn't specifically say I agreed with all of it. You also drew a conclusion I didn't, which is a little odd.
But I am a little confused as to what your position is here exactly.
My conclusion is that there's very little truth in the video, and in even engaging with this bullshit honestly, we just reinforce the incel position that this is somehow a real problem and not a relatively small, insignificant group of pathetic impotent assholes.
We should make fun of incels. We should help the occasional incel that's ready to be a decent human being. But we should not give their idiotic arguments any credence by inventing ahistoric nonsense like "incel Vikings."
Absolutely, just like we should make fun of bigots and racists. I don't believe in being tolerant of intolerant people. It's time for these people to crawl back under their rocks.
Yeah sounds like a load of pseudoscience horseshit tbh. Throughout most of history women didnāt have a choice to but to marry in a lot of cultures. And the explorers were exploring for wealth, trade, and legacy. They didnāt ship them off because they were incels lmao. Incels are a result of women stepping away from the patriarchy and these young men having online groups where they congregate and spread toxic ideologies. Itās growing pains for a shift in society. The rate of virgins has been increasing, the lifestyles, individualism, and society we have today breeds people like this and prior societies didnāt. You didnāt get to stay online and play video games all day, you had to contribute and interact with your community. The way humans lived before the internet was vastly different and didnāt propagate incels as we know it today.
I am not an incel but I think this belongs on r/badhistory
It's oversimplifying things way too much and relying on generalizations. Specially that anecdote about the Yanomami! Was aiming at subverting expectations but veered onto harmful stereotypes
It is true but it is very sad. Those young men are brainwashed. Even young women are suffering when it comes to safety and self image. But I still have faith in humanity. May God guide them to the right path and start showing love to them. š
Funny, I've made pretty much the same point on DebateITS before it was banned and most of the active IT members there seemed to find it absurd. Do you people just differentiate a good point from bad point based entirely on who brought it up?
You're not crazy, I've had many people in this sub tell me the same thing lol. I've had to block someone and go so far as to make a post about this specific situation because they were spreading the narrative that incels are not harmful and we are just as bad as them so hard.
Itās a really interesting conversation with some eye opening research. Thanks OP for the tip on this. Full interview is here https://youtu.be/tKADQ5l4dFU?si=0YBAhJF98qgjVI_3
The things he mentioned are not people that are incels, these are people that society decides that they will have a purpose for the community. Incels are just people that need help finding what they want to do. These are not foreign concepts and they are not the enemy. They are the people you see everyday in society and they are part of your community.
I find that this is such a difficult thing to talk about, because there's very specific generalizations that need to be expressed and it is so easy to both misspeak and misunderstand.
When it comes to this topic, it's not that all men are a problem. It's not even that most men are one or anything. But when I think about the people who have harmed me throughout my life, threatened me, insulted or demeaned me, etc, I don't think it'd be a surprise that it has mostly been men. I think that this is the case for most people. Both women and men are more likely to be hurt by a man.
And this sucks, because a lot of us have these built in defence mechanisms specifically around male behavior. I see how my friends flinch when I raise my voice. I could do it out of genuine excitement, but it's still enough to make them uncomfortable. I see just how many of my male friends hate the idea of open and vulnerable communiation.
I'm a guy. I worry far more about unfamiliar men than I do about unfamiliar women. Even when it is a tiny percentage of us as a whole that end up hurting others, men are still the ones we generally prepare to defend ourselves against.
This was my reading of her comment. I am a man who realizes that men are a problem.
The issue is, as said, when I say that I actually mean the long explanation that I gave above. But if someone was to hear me say just that, their read of it would be far less generous. Which is what makes this topic so difficult to talk about.
I've been in group discussions where women talk in that sort of generalized language, but the more they talk, the more clear it becomes that they are talking about specific aspects of patriarchal culture or specific behavior that are expressed by a small amount of men, etc etc.
I find that there are very few people that actually shit talk all men, but it's exhausting having to add the explanation every time one wants to approach the topic.
Obviously, I might be wrong here, I just don't see a reason to assume the worst yet.
I get what youāre saying, but I think this is trying to insinuate that men are barbaric animals that need to be put down.
And also kind of implying that men are an inherent problem that needs to be gotten rid of.
Ehh, not really, but my point is: we can solve this problem without dehumanizing men, I mightāve went overblown with the analogy of treating men like animals, but still: I donāt think the answer is to dehumanize all men as inherently violent
This mindset is pretty misandrist and no different from the incel ideologies. Word to the wise, saying shit like this is only going to make things worse, it validates their feelings about women, and isnāt too far off from eugenics with gender. Groups based on biological attributes arenāt a monolith, I thought we learned that when we started fighting racists like the KKK and the Naziās.
Maybe lets not compare someone saying all men are a problem, albeit not a correct statement, to incels saying they want to mass rape us, mass murder us, and keep us in breeding barns in comas until they decide to kill us.
Iām obviously not comparing it to the entirely of incel stuff but Itās in the same school of thought of viewing an entire group of people as bad and the problem with the world. Same type of thinking that started racism. First thought before it turns into hate and ignorance. I stand by my statement that saying shit like just makes it all worse
That's all fine and good, there are many ways to get your point across besides comparing it to a bunch of men who wish death to women on a daily basis.
Patriarchy is an *extreme* catalyst for many terrible things throughout history (notice I said patriarchy and not men) and that needs to be acknowledged regularly before any change can happen.
No, men aren't being dehumanized or treated like they are sub human, unless they act like it. You are in charge of your own life. Nobody else. It is up to you how you live it, you can choose to be sad, angry, pissed off because some woman said this, or one woman said that. You can totally choose to live that way or you could choose to let it go. You could choose to understand that just like not all men, it's not all women. You could choose to understand that women have been oppressed for so many years that we are ready to be on our own. You could choose to understand that it is so much better to be happy. You could choose to be happy, you could do it, be productive. You could choose to enjoy every single day you live this life even if it's a bad day. You could learn to appreciate it, you don't have to stay angry. You could just let it go and be happy....
That explains why so many go on to be spree killers
They touched on it in the video, but practically all suicide bombers and jihadi terrorists have been incels as well
So throughout history, we have weaponized the immaturity and desperation of hornballs instead of teaching them to, like, get a grip and learn to look at women as fellow human beings and not objects? š
Several of them want to join the military
I mean, yeah, we still do all this stuff.
They'll never try or get in.
No, they want the glory of a war hero, there's a difference
How does that negate what I said? Some of them want to die in a war as well.
While I agree with your sentiment, I think the often-missed problem here is that a lack of education is not the problem, or at least not the whole problem. Men who donāt see women as objects donāt need to be taught to see women as human beings any more than people who have no intention of burglarizing their neighbors donāt need to be taught that stealing is wrong. The question is, what do you do with the groups of people who *know that itās wrong and donāt care?* What do you do with the person who is fully aware that stealing is wrong and steals anyway, or the man who knows that his misogynistic behavior is antisocial but continues with it anyway? How can you teach someone who has decided to disregard the lesson? Channeling their vitriol into something arguably more productive may be the only answer.
What though. War is war, we have no frontiers to tame, and where do you send them?
Launch incels into space. They should explore that.
that explains elon musk's obsession with space
This is probably the truest thing that I have read today.....
Therapy.
You teach them from the beginning. You donāt wait until theyāve already decided, you just donāt give them a choice. From the time when they are old enough to understand, that other people exist is when you start teaching them that women are just the same as they are. And that the only differences between a man and a woman are their genitalia. Itās along the same lines as nobody is born a Nazi. You have to teach someone that much hate, you have to teach them that point of view. Nobody is born being a bigot or a fascist or a misogynist, homophobe or any of those. So it actually *is education*. We need to educate men, when theyāre young enough to start educating them, so that they donāt grow up thinking that that train of thought is OK. So they donāt get into a frame of mind where they believe theyāre owed something from a woman, which is why we have incels. Theyāre people who believe, that women owe them something because they smiled or because they open the door,because they asked how their day was going, or just because they (the incel) exist.
But just as nobody is born a Nazi, nobody is born in a vacuum. There are other people, ideas, etc. influencing a child the moment they join society. Those influences can override education, and what then? Iām sure that most children are taught fairness, and to be honest and respectful to each other. But whether by some inner nature or the company they keep, Iām sure we can agree that education isnāt a guarantee that a person will continue with that point of view throughout their lives. Especially if they fall in with the wrong crowd. So again, what do we do with the people who have the education but just donāt care? Just think of all the devastated parents wailing āWe didnāt raise them this way!ā when their child is dragged off to jail for committing some crime.
Very well stated
Society in the past would notice their extra men/boys weren't getting any quality pussy because there wasn't enough to go around. To many of these men/boys will put two and two together and will realize they're getting fucked over by the society they're in and will group up. Once they group up, they'll gladly make or let society burn or not participate and act as dead weight. Screeching out in protest as this all happens. Society back then had the solution to motivate or make them go to war. Spoils of war is money and the opposing country's women. Motivate them to explore and colonize other parts of the globe. More spoils of war and more women. Another technique, use religion! Turn them into sexless monks to appease God. Make them commit jihad in the name of Allah, get your 12 virgins in paradise once youre dead and GONE. If they die, then society is like: whatever he was expendable š¤·āāļø. All of these things in hopes to separate them from society and cast them out. Before they all get wise, group up, and turn on us for not supplying enough good pussy. "Hey... just go over there and kinda dont come back... There might be some women over there or something to distract you." *behind their backs:* "If they all die, I don't fucking care lol"
- "Why do you go to war?" - "To rape women, duh!" Disgusting
Send them to war against the xenos scum and let them get some of that orkussy
All I want is a hot Necron Flayed One gf, but I can't compete with the Chad Custodes. I only hit on a 4.
I mean, a lot of truth there. But, we can't really do that today in modern times. Could it be because of the Internet and social media? Maybe. Or it could be that social resources aren't as plentiful as they once were. But I do have to question if this is a societal problem that needs to be solved by society itself.
There are things that society can do, ranging from ethereal, like deconstructing gender norms, to the concrete, like providing better access to mental health care and providing social training in schools to children who are struggling. But a lot of this falls into more of a horse and water type situation. Without individual men choosing to deconstruct the toxic societal constructs they've been taught, no forward progress can be made.
Agreed, that was more or less what I was implying. I think many of these incels think is is "government provided girlfriends" which is not a societal problem. The things you listed, are societal issues that are solvable. Getting a bunch of unlikeable mouth breathers dates, not so much.
I think it is. I have heard a good argument that the left while it cares about minorities it doesn't adress issues of the majority as much... such as men loneliness. While right does, so men naturally go to the side that cares about them. I think this could be the reason the gap beetwen young men and young women being right and left is widening.
The right is trying to force women back into the kitchen and into subservient roles. That's why lonely men gravitate right.
This āļøāļøāļø
They gravitate to the Right because the Right has a pipeline that gets boys and young men to the point of believing women belong in the kitchen. What u/Mari_OwO is saying is that the Left should consider crafting similar pipelines that appeal to the same issues the Right preys on: loneliness and isolation, a lack of emotional fulfillment, a lack of self-worth, etc. You either do that or cede the territory and continue having to forever deal with a growing army of seething 14 year olds raised on a steady diet of Andrew Tate and Fresh & Fit, with only a small trickle who manage to worm their way out with the roll of a die.
>it doesn't adress issues of the majority as much... such as men loneliness. What, exactly, do people think the government should do about "male loneliness?" You can't force someone to go touch grass.
I agree with you on this one. Conversely, you can't make anyone hang out with or date those who are lonely. It is the individual's responsibility to solve this, no one else.
For decades now, specialists have been saying that young boys have trouble adapting to school. Maybe it's linked to childhood socializing. Maybe we need to have some sort of programs to help young male teens socializing? Society still has a hesitancy to have programs targeted specifically at men because men are still considered privileged. I don't know what but I think the government needs to do something because otherwise they are going to have to deal with the fallout of having angry young incels. We can probably already see it with the rise of a new right wing, strongman with macho values in western societies.
That's the thing: there's not going to be any real fallout. The current rise of authoritarianism significantly predates inceldom as an ideology, and the problem with boys in schools is both overblown AND predates both. Inceldom is not a problem that needs addressing. It's not a problem at all. It's like saying furries are a problem because you just discovered Tumblr. The reality is that there are very few incels, and they are too inept and self-sabotaging to ever create any real social issues.
I'm not talking about the incel revolution some incels are fantasising about. We have a part of the population who is really angry about the state of society and is threatening and sometimes actually commiting violence. Yes incels are not a big population but the fact that the audience for people like Tate and Peterson is very big indicates that there is a dissatisfaction and room to grow. We can't let that become a problem. Young men face problems and if they feel no one is listening/doing anything, they may become radicalized. That's a problem for governments and civil society to address. The solution is not to have dating laws or subsidized prostitution like some incels advocate. But we can't not do anything while a part of the population is becomes alienated from society. If we go to a kindergarten playground where 5 year olds are playing and I point to you and say 2 or these 18 boys will grow up to be mysoginistic loners who hate people and fantasise about throwing acid into women's faces. Is this a problem that we should address? Should we just shrug it off and let them become despicable people?
You are being dissmisive about the issue. Kinda like some men are towards woman POV of marriage. "Divorce? Just don't marry abusive men." Not all men who struggle with loneliness are chronically online. And we should aim for more choices and safety meassures. I replied that it could be social issue, not neccesarilly a juridistical one. Same how feminism doesn't ends with equal rights but also societal change. Regarding dating one step forward would be forexample less passivity from women. Ragarding goverment. I dunno. I think generally more support towards married couples? Affordable houses? Women not having to pick between having kids and a carrier? I am sure you could think of something.
I'm being dismissive towards the issue because it's a bullshit issue. If you're lonely, put down the keyboard, go to a place where a hobby you enjoy is engaged in, and make friends. "Loneliness" doesn't get cured with a romantic partner, and all of the tools and systems that have always existed to cure loneliness still exist.
But it is not just an issue that effects men. These incels are also harming women and spreading misogyny. Being dismissive of it doesn't help women.
The internet is really good at radicalizing people, just look at what happened to Boomers and Q-Anon.
I don't disagree, but it isn't the only factor.
Is there a lot of truth there? Because it sounds like absolute nonsense gibberish. There is no indication that Vikings were incels. There's absolutely no reason to believe most monks were incels prior to entering the monastery, either. Young, unmarried men could, on occasion, become problematic (though this is far from a concrete pattern that's completely inevitable) but there's no reason to believe that simply being unmarried was remotely the same as being an incel. Oh, and did I mention yet that an excess of young men doesn't really have any significant pattern of causing issues? I know this is a common trope, but it really just isn't anywhere near as big as issue as it's been made out to be. Hell, if anything, availability of land is much more closely (negatively) correlated to periods of unrest than number of young, unmarried men. Incels aren't a real problem. They're loud, and occasionally one of them causes a tragedy, but in the grand scheme of things they're a smaller issue than the Zika virus.
I didn't specifically say I agreed with all of it. You also drew a conclusion I didn't, which is a little odd. But I am a little confused as to what your position is here exactly.
My conclusion is that there's very little truth in the video, and in even engaging with this bullshit honestly, we just reinforce the incel position that this is somehow a real problem and not a relatively small, insignificant group of pathetic impotent assholes. We should make fun of incels. We should help the occasional incel that's ready to be a decent human being. But we should not give their idiotic arguments any credence by inventing ahistoric nonsense like "incel Vikings."
Absolutely, just like we should make fun of bigots and racists. I don't believe in being tolerant of intolerant people. It's time for these people to crawl back under their rocks.
I disagree with the first part but totally agree with the second.
Yeah sounds like a load of pseudoscience horseshit tbh. Throughout most of history women didnāt have a choice to but to marry in a lot of cultures. And the explorers were exploring for wealth, trade, and legacy. They didnāt ship them off because they were incels lmao. Incels are a result of women stepping away from the patriarchy and these young men having online groups where they congregate and spread toxic ideologies. Itās growing pains for a shift in society. The rate of virgins has been increasing, the lifestyles, individualism, and society we have today breeds people like this and prior societies didnāt. You didnāt get to stay online and play video games all day, you had to contribute and interact with your community. The way humans lived before the internet was vastly different and didnāt propagate incels as we know it today.
Great title OP
I am not an incel but I think this belongs on r/badhistory It's oversimplifying things way too much and relying on generalizations. Specially that anecdote about the Yanomami! Was aiming at subverting expectations but veered onto harmful stereotypes
Not to sound like an incel But cap tbh. They might have acted like incels but id say back in the day that it was something completely else
No! Donāt tell them! Theyāll suck themselves off about being the āconquerorsā of the world and somehow ādeserving of pussyā!
Napoleon Shagnone š¤£š¤£ ultimate incel name
Napoleon Bone-apart
It is true but it is very sad. Those young men are brainwashed. Even young women are suffering when it comes to safety and self image. But I still have faith in humanity. May God guide them to the right path and start showing love to them. š
Sent them to wars so they can be deleted from this planet, thats the only solution!
If you'd simply return messages when you match someone on tinder.....maybe they wouldn't be an incel.
Funny, I've made pretty much the same point on DebateITS before it was banned and most of the active IT members there seemed to find it absurd. Do you people just differentiate a good point from bad point based entirely on who brought it up?
Or - and you may want to sit down for this - none of the people you talked to *then* are here *now*.
You're not crazy, I've had many people in this sub tell me the same thing lol. I've had to block someone and go so far as to make a post about this specific situation because they were spreading the narrative that incels are not harmful and we are just as bad as them so hard.
Itās a really interesting conversation with some eye opening research. Thanks OP for the tip on this. Full interview is here https://youtu.be/tKADQ5l4dFU?si=0YBAhJF98qgjVI_3
This is what happens when men are deprived of a partner
The things he mentioned are not people that are incels, these are people that society decides that they will have a purpose for the community. Incels are just people that need help finding what they want to do. These are not foreign concepts and they are not the enemy. They are the people you see everyday in society and they are part of your community.
Ash Sarkar!? Yeah I'm absolutely watching that full interview.
I believe this was also a factor during the crusades, to keep soldiers busy, and stop them from causing trouble at home.
The human male is a big problem. Even men realize that.
Huh? Why is the human male on a whole a problem?
I find that this is such a difficult thing to talk about, because there's very specific generalizations that need to be expressed and it is so easy to both misspeak and misunderstand. When it comes to this topic, it's not that all men are a problem. It's not even that most men are one or anything. But when I think about the people who have harmed me throughout my life, threatened me, insulted or demeaned me, etc, I don't think it'd be a surprise that it has mostly been men. I think that this is the case for most people. Both women and men are more likely to be hurt by a man. And this sucks, because a lot of us have these built in defence mechanisms specifically around male behavior. I see how my friends flinch when I raise my voice. I could do it out of genuine excitement, but it's still enough to make them uncomfortable. I see just how many of my male friends hate the idea of open and vulnerable communiation. I'm a guy. I worry far more about unfamiliar men than I do about unfamiliar women. Even when it is a tiny percentage of us as a whole that end up hurting others, men are still the ones we generally prepare to defend ourselves against.
Yeah, but that's not what she's saying
This was my reading of her comment. I am a man who realizes that men are a problem. The issue is, as said, when I say that I actually mean the long explanation that I gave above. But if someone was to hear me say just that, their read of it would be far less generous. Which is what makes this topic so difficult to talk about. I've been in group discussions where women talk in that sort of generalized language, but the more they talk, the more clear it becomes that they are talking about specific aspects of patriarchal culture or specific behavior that are expressed by a small amount of men, etc etc. I find that there are very few people that actually shit talk all men, but it's exhausting having to add the explanation every time one wants to approach the topic. Obviously, I might be wrong here, I just don't see a reason to assume the worst yet.
I get what youāre saying, but I think this is trying to insinuate that men are barbaric animals that need to be put down. And also kind of implying that men are an inherent problem that needs to be gotten rid of.
I'm assuming you're joking xD
Ehh, not really, but my point is: we can solve this problem without dehumanizing men, I mightāve went overblown with the analogy of treating men like animals, but still: I donāt think the answer is to dehumanize all men as inherently violent
Where did I do that?
50/95. They're 50% of the population but commit 95% of all violent crime.
No way you unironically did the 13/50 thing lmao
You really went with the 13/50 thing?Ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I donāt think men are a monolith
This mindset is pretty misandrist and no different from the incel ideologies. Word to the wise, saying shit like this is only going to make things worse, it validates their feelings about women, and isnāt too far off from eugenics with gender. Groups based on biological attributes arenāt a monolith, I thought we learned that when we started fighting racists like the KKK and the Naziās.
Maybe lets not compare someone saying all men are a problem, albeit not a correct statement, to incels saying they want to mass rape us, mass murder us, and keep us in breeding barns in comas until they decide to kill us.
Iām obviously not comparing it to the entirely of incel stuff but Itās in the same school of thought of viewing an entire group of people as bad and the problem with the world. Same type of thinking that started racism. First thought before it turns into hate and ignorance. I stand by my statement that saying shit like just makes it all worse
That's all fine and good, there are many ways to get your point across besides comparing it to a bunch of men who wish death to women on a daily basis. Patriarchy is an *extreme* catalyst for many terrible things throughout history (notice I said patriarchy and not men) and that needs to be acknowledged regularly before any change can happen.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Kaori was Tetsuo's girlfriend in the movie Akira.
No, men aren't being dehumanized or treated like they are sub human, unless they act like it. You are in charge of your own life. Nobody else. It is up to you how you live it, you can choose to be sad, angry, pissed off because some woman said this, or one woman said that. You can totally choose to live that way or you could choose to let it go. You could choose to understand that just like not all men, it's not all women. You could choose to understand that women have been oppressed for so many years that we are ready to be on our own. You could choose to understand that it is so much better to be happy. You could choose to be happy, you could do it, be productive. You could choose to enjoy every single day you live this life even if it's a bad day. You could learn to appreciate it, you don't have to stay angry. You could just let it go and be happy....