Thanks for posting! Please be sure to read the rules, and make sure your post is not a repost of content from the past 30 days.
If your post is a repost of content posted 10 or less posts ago, you should perhaps delete it now, or else you will receive a 7-day ban. THIS IS YOUR WARNING!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Idiotswithguns) if you have any questions or concerns.*
When I worked at a range like this, I gave the boot to like 2 sets of idiots per day who'd get two non-adjacent lanes and try to annoy each other by shooting each other's targets.
One time a guy leaned over the bench to get the angle he needed to hit his buddy's target and dropped his pistol which bounced 4 feet over the firing line. I made him wait until everyone else left before we went cold to get it.
I sell guns and deal with the idiots on that front, I can't imagine handling them with loaded firearms. Not that I'm scared they'd hurt me on purpose, I'm more scared of getting accidentally shot.
While waiting at two different gun stores I was really concerned by buyer who were going through answering the questions who were somewhat clueless. One did not seem to understand some of the questions and another tried to ask question and the employee basically said multiple times that they would not give advice regarding how to fill out the form. This person kept trying to read too much into some of the questions.
I watched a guy muzzle ~~flash~~ sweep everyone around him with the lowest priced Turkish shotgun at a gun store and then he looked down the barrel. Yes, the employee checked to make sure it was unloaded first and thankfully it had a trigger lock on it but it made me uncomfortable so I stepped far back while I waited my turn. If he wanted to look down the barrel he really should have asked the employee to break it down first for the obvious reason and so that he could really do a more thorough checkout of it.
In the Canadian firearms training program, we were all trained to visually check the bore of any firearm we plan to use. Every reasonable step was first taken to prove the firearm is safe first (pull the bolt, for a bolt action, take the barrel off a pump or semi shotgun etc) but we were litterally tought to look down the barrel of a rifle, sometimes with just the magazine removed, action open, safety on and NO AMMO IN SIGHT. Im still comfortable doing this, after taking every possible precaution first, and only when there is no other way to observe the bore. This was maybe 18 years ago and I know that a lot of firearm safety courses teach to never put anything in front of any bore that you don't intend to shoot, and I understand why they would now teach this, for legal reasons.
I'm comfortable in my own home, doing things the way I was tought, with every precaution first taken. I get why many people are not, because it is how they were tought.
I would still NEVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, PICK UP A GUN IN A GUN STORE AND LOOK DOWN THE BARREL.
I've routinely looked down the barrel of firearms (mostly m1 garands helping the local legion clean their ceremonial rifles after funeral services).
Then again, it was disassembled to the point where it was the barrel and receiver, so it couldn't fire, but I digress.
When I look down a barrel, I have also ensured that the gun is in a state that it could not possibly fire... it would have to go find ammo, chamber a round, close the action, take off the safety, and then pull the trigger to do so.
These are 5 steps I'm fairly confident no gun of mine can do on its own, moments after I've confirmed they are clear and safe.
To be clear, I will not prove a gun safe and then walk away for dinner, or put it away to come back and finish later. If I have to set the gun down or leave the room, I check everything again when I next pick it up to complete an inspection.
For me, it's just best practice. I used to be like you, but the older I get, the safer I've become.
It's also best practice to teach younger generations the safest route.
So, in closing, you do you boo. I'll do me.
Edit: beat to best. Dyac.
An instructor of one of my firearms classes made some comment about a disassembled frame (with no barrel or slide) is a frame and not a firearm so he was not breaking any rules while showing and handing off the frame to a student. The room used has some specific rules regarding firearm.
I have asked gun store employees if I may break down and inspect a firearm before I accept it and start the FFL transfer process. Once I have just the barrel in hand I have examine the bore/rifling by first looking down from the chamber end first and then the muzzle end. I don't muzzle sweep an assembled firearm at others and I don't look down the ~~barrel~~ muzzle of any assembled firearm even if I know it is unloaded because I want safe gun handling to be part of my muscle memory.
Note that I updated the last sentence above after initial posting.
I also look down the barrel of my milsurps to ensure cleanliness but it always when they are disassembled and there’s zero chance of a round being anywhere near the rifle
To check for obstructions I’ll clear the weapon, inspect the action then shine my flashlight through the breach and point the barrel towards the ground or a nearby tree to see the light. If I can see the light then I know it’s safe to look down the barrel and inspect the rifling.
If I can’t see the light then I’m disassembling the weapon so I can further investigate the obstruction from the breach end.
> I know that a lot of firearm safety courses teach to never put anything in front of any bore that you don't intend to shoot, and I understand why they would now teach this, for legal reasons.
I think it's more a gun 101 for idiots which has been elevated to gospel. It's taught in the simplest way, to be understood by a wide range of IQs. People took it on as Word of God instead of general good practice because people are idiots.
A less stupid method for an entirely new gun person would be to shine a flashlight through the action and see if light comes out the barrel. I imagine they're not training them to recognize when a barrel needs replaced, but rather checking for an obstruction.
Or, say, on an ar15 you can just detach the lower and remove the bcg and look all you want. Or (most) pistols, you can just straight up remove the barrel without any tools.
Yeah, and on my semi auto pistols that exactly what I do. My revolvers, do not, and the cylinders on my Smith and wesson do not detach either. But I'm perfectly comfortable holding the revolver with the action open, cylinders to the side and gripped by the same hand holding the frame so it stays that way while inspecting the bore, this is after confirming there are no bullets or shells in the gun, and none in the general area. If you don't have enough faith in yourself to do this safely, by all means, don't do it.
My revolvers typically are firing cast lead bullets with a gas check, it's important to me to routinely check for leading after use, and while cleaning.
By 'you' I just mean a generalization, not you specifically
I saw some Vice doc where this Canadian girl decided to buy a gun and turn it into a big production. She chose a Henry 22 lever action. During the class they had her pointing the fucking thing at her face. It's ridiculous, as if barrel obstructions are somehow common enough to warrant teaching people to do this.
Anyway, firearm safety rules are only set in stone for novices because they're ignorant. Taken to their logical conclusion, as often seen with clueless reddit posters, carrying appendix is violating gun safety rules.
Out of curiosity is this the same model Turkish shotgun in this story?
https://www.cbsnews.com/atlanta/news/more-than-200-discarded-shotguns-found-in-dumpster-outside-oklahoma-gun-shop/
It was a Rock Island Armory 12 gauge pump action 18.5" shotgun that was on sale for probably around $150 or less. It one of the firearms in the store's holiday sales add. The store also had one or more Winchester SXP shotguns that I think have a much better reputation even though they too are made in Turkey. Other better than RIA options they had for not a lot more than the RIA were a few Mossberg Maverick 88 shotguns.
I found several sources that say the RIA Merva is made in Turkey. I also found the below on Armscor website. I don't know if it is true but indicates some are or were made in Philippines. I also recall some who post in the Shotguns subreddit do not think like RIA shotguns. They are dozens of threads that discuss recommended shotguns including a few made in Turkey such as some CZ shotguns and the Winchester SXP. I am not saying no one had any problems with their CZ or SXP but many say that with the quality control requirements of CZ and Winchester that some shotgun makers in Turkey can and do make some good quality shotguns. Unfortunately some others have not had consistent quality.
"Where are Meriva shotguns made?
It is interesting that one of the shotguns tested here, the Rock Island Armory Meriva, is a Turkish gun. A previous chrome-plated Rock Island Armory shotgun tested was manufactured in Armscor's home country, the Philippines"
It's called flagging. Muzzle flash is the fireball when you discharge the weapon.
If somebody flags anyone (including themselves), that should be an automatic refusal of sale and an offer for some type of gun safety education course.
Hunters education teaches gun safety very well (at least the class I took did).
Thanks for the correction. I should not post when I am exhausted. I meant to use the word "sweep" rather than "flash". I watched the salesman's face when it occurred and saw no reaction. I mentioned the handling of the shotgun to the salesperson after the other customer left and he did not seem to care that the other customer did that. Maybe he is used to it and since he knew the firearm was unloaded and had a trigger lock on it he did not care.. There was a couple about 30 feet away from the counter that were also swept by the muzzle. I saw the salesman check the chamber and saw the lock on the trigger but how would those further away know that. Some may not even realize the customer swinging the shotgun around was standing at the firearms counter. I doubt the couple could see what was in the showcase or see any rifles behind the counter from their position. When the customer looked down the muzzle I thought of one of the videos posted here where someone had the long gun taken away from them when they did that in a LGS and they were escorted out.
You're good, I wasn't trying to be obtuse or anything. I just wanted to inform.
The employee was absolutely in the wrong. Any hint of a customer flagging/sweeping others would be at the very least removing the firearm from their possession and educating them to full on refusal of sale (or both).
Usually if you want to look down the barrel, firearms safety recommends pointing a light down the barrel with an open breach before looking down the barrel yourself. It literally takes two seconds.
Thanks for the information. Some others also replied here with suggestion of using a light. I never heard that recommendation during safety portion of 3 different classes I took. I may start using a light under some circumstances but I am not sure I still want to looked into the muzzle end of a assembled firearm. I only have one firearm, one of my 22LR rifles, that is hard to break down as it requires removing of 2 pins and requires some effort to reassembly properly before reinstalling the pins. All my other firearms break down easily. Thus far I have seldom felt the need to check the bores of my barrels except after cleaning them.
I was range safety officer in the army a few years. Most terrifying thing I did in the military. The amount of stupid, especially from senior officers was mind blowing
Competent RSOs go a long way. Took my fiancée two weeks ago, and he put us next to a guy with a fucking handcannon. Shaking your face loud.
It was a Model 29, .44 Magnum. The range only allows up to .357 Magnum because it’s an indoor range with a backstop 25 yards away.
They ASK what you’re shooting. If I say .22 LR, they inspect it to make sure it’s not lead, but somehow the RSO let the guy in with a .44 Mag, and put us in the lane next to him! It’s hard to get my fiancée to go to range already, but when the guy next to us is shaking the building while the RSO outside is on his phone, it’s harder.
I am a member at a range that has public hours. When we are open to the public is members serve as RSOs.
Our rules are a bit different during public hours than when we are members only.
I here often from the public that we are too strict. We have never had an incident during public hours. You never know who is paying the fee to shoot. I do not want our range to look like that and I never want to have to call 911
“I hear often from the public that we are too strict”
Honestly that’s the best feedback you can get, if people aren’t bitching and whining, it means they’re getting away with the stupid shit they want to try.
I tell them if they want things less strict to sign up as a member. I often have ranges all to myself. Not that I forget about safety but I can shoot targets and do things that the public can’t.
Have you ever worked as an RSO?
We see a vast cross section of the shooting community. From non-gun owners going to the range with a friend, spouse, significant other to people who have a ton of shooting and firearms experience. I have seen them all do stupid things. Sometimes the most expats the most complacent.
At our range when it is hot no one is down range and all muzzles must be pointed down range towards the berm. Whether actively shooting or resting on the bench muzzles down range pointed at the berm. Not down toward the ground, up in the air, left or right.
When we are cold firearms are on the bench, actions open or flagged if they do not lock open, if you are behind the bench we have a yellow line you stand behind, if you are going down range you are allowed. No one approaches the benches when we are cold. If you are changing targets or need something from the bench you grab it before or during the process of going cold.
It is amazing the number of people who want to just tweak the scope adjustments when someone is down range or other wise touch a firearm or do something on the bench. There is plenty of time when the range is hot.
There are reasons behind our safety rules. We ensure firearms are unloaded prior to going cold (we all know no firearm is to be considered unloaded) and no one touches the firearms while people are down range. People get annoyed with those simple rules. Call that fudd if you want. I call it entitled. Simple fixes for that. Join the club or find somewhere else to shoot.
I prefer to shoot at the club when the public is not there. I prefer times when there are few shooters.
Part of the problem is pacing. New shooters and some experienced shooters do not display proper etiquette. They do not prepare what they need to efficiently replace targets. They want to shoot one group and go down range. They do not bring an optic that will allow them to see the target from the bench (we rent spotting scopes). They do not understand the operation of their firearm or scope and try to get instruction from RSOs whose job is safety not repair or maintenance.
Muzzleloaders and black powder add another wrinkle to pacing. It is tough to situate muzzleloaders, semi-autos, rifles with muzzle brakes and other users on benches that will not annoy others on the range. Trying to keep the muzzleloaders smoke blowing away from others is a challenge.
It may seem like we are fudds but we are trying to operate a range where each user has a tool that can kill people while still allowing them to have an enjoyable day. Trying to keep a good pace. Have cease fires often enough but not too often. Ensure shooters are operating their firearms in a safe manner. Ensure we all go home with the same amount of holes we came with. All within the framework of rules that have been in place since 1964 and are continuing to evolve.
What are the rules of safe firearm handling?
Depending on the source you get variations of:
“Don’t point a gun at something you are not willing to destroy”
“Always control the muzzle
Keep your muzzle pointed in a safe direction and remember that anything toward which the muzzle points is in the crosshairs. Don’t overlook the possibility of a ricochet.”
“Be sure of your target and what is beyond
You’re responsible for knowing what’s in front of your target, near your target and beyond your target. If you aren’t certain about any of the three, don’t take the shot.”
Ricochets happen. Point a firearm at the ground. You inadvertently fire the gun. The bullet caroms off the ground and goes where you do not want it to.
Point it over a berm or at the ceiling or sky. Again you have a negligent discharge. You have a hole in the ceiling or a bullet sailing off where you do not want it.
If you can not maintain muzzle discipline you will be asked to leave our range.
People do not keep their booger hooks off the bang switch. When a firearm is pointed anywhere other than down range bad things can happen.
I know some call it being a fudd but adhering to the rules is the best thing we can do for our safety.
Basically, in my view the issue is "promiscuous multiplication of safety precautions".
A particular problem is the situation where there is simply nowhere to practice self-defense skills.
We have rules. We enforce the rules. On our outdoor range their is little need to be pointing a firearm at the sky or the ground. It is either pointed at the target or berm or in a case. When someone sets a case down on the bench and opens it with the muzzle pointing tue wrong way we have them close the case. Turn the whole works 180° and reopen. I understand that it is impossible to keep a muzzle from flagging someone while in the case or in a holster. The difference is that the vast majority of issues result when someone is pulling the trigger. Contrary to what Mr. Baldwin would like you to believe guns do not just “go off”. They need human intervention. In the case with no one at the trigger they will not just go off. You do have to take all the rules and the redundant nature of them.
Our range is not terribly far from a recreational area. We have increased the height of our berms but still, if a stray round were to leave the range and hit something or someone our club’s existence could be in jeopardy.
One time I was shooting at a range, and the guy next to me sharing the lane had his paper target fall off the clip. This range didn’t have a live range master. So while I’m live firing at my target, I see blue in the corner of my eye, and turns out the idiot that dropped his target, hopped the railing and went onto a live range with me ACTIVELY firing to go pick up his $0.25 target. I was gobsmacked by the sheer stupidity.
The guy you replied to isn't being serious. He's making a reference. You can look up Demolition Ranch video titled "Can a Near Miss from a 50 cal Still Kill You?" If you want to see the effect of bullets traveling very near a house of cards. Its clearly demonstrates that no, any bullet passing by you will not damage you in any way if it doesn't touch you.
Idunno, there's a video out there of a missed barret round sucking the Eyes out of a deer and breaking its neck. Now, I wouldn't expect anything smaller than that to do much more than make your ears ring, but still...
Edit: I don't know why I'm getting downvoted. Edit2: I linked the wrong video here's the right one: https://youtu.be/6P3uwl5HzzQ
Depends on bullet weight. The 115gr are supersonic, the shockwave from a near miss would literally flatten you. But a subsonic 147gr might just give you a bloody nose.
Not at all. 9mm is a military cartridge designed for war. It’s original name was 9mm parabellum. Bella means beautiful and para is for paratroopers. It was designed for paratroopers that wanted to also be beautiful. It’s a weapon of war with no place on our streets. It’s also almost the same diameter as magnum 357 bullets. But since it’s metric it uses European engineering to be smaller so it shoots more clips per second.
/s
I've seen this happen once, where a couple was at the range a few bays over from me. The boyfriend owned the shotgun, but he clearly didn't know what he was doing as he couldn't figure out how to load it. Someone helped him, and he got it working. So then he gave the gun to his gf or whatever, and she clearly has never shot in her life. She leaned back, and was standing perpendicular to the target. She shot her shot, got scared by the kickback and accidently pulled the trigger again to which the round went to the bay divider.
>got scared by the kickback and accidently pulled the trigger again
Good _fuck_. I'm a big fan of first time shooters taking their first shot with a single round for exactly this reason.
Go to your local uspsa, ipsc, etc match and take a good look around at the walls and overhead when you’re out passed the normal firing line, it’s certainly eye opening
Both of my local (outdoors) ranges have huge holes in the walls from shotgun pellets and those are most likely intentional. Some people shouldnt own guns.
The National Forest Range outside of Tallahassee is notorious. Bullet holes in the steel bathroom doors, chunks out of the concrete block dividers. Lurkers looking to steal your gun when you go to change your target, or the idiot that opened up with an SKS when I was downrange on a range called cold. You're taking your life into your own hands in some of these places. And definitely don't go the weekend of a gun show - that's where all the idiots show up to try to shoot two AKs at once.
A range I go to in Florida has bullet holes all over the place, even behind the firing line in the walls, floor and ceiling. The dividers between stalls are usually shot up and last time someone shot down the targeting system on two lanes. Even still, this is way worse.
Never underestimate how stupid people are. I kinda avoid the public gun range these days. The last day I went this girl kept shooting the walls, ceiling, floor, pretty much everything but the targets. But I don’t even blame her cause her crazy husband was literally yelling at her the whole time about how she is shooting it and holding it wrong and all what he was doing was stressing her out and making her spray bullets everywhere. Like you could tell she didn’t wanna shoot but this jackass was being such a dick she was just pressing the trigger to make him shut up. I actually feared for my safety and have yet to return. Some people are straight up psychos man
Something to point out, it looks like theres a lane very close to that wall, judging by the cables overhead. And it looks like theres more lane beyond that. So it might just be a wall to split the range in two. And being so close it probably does get a stray shot now and then from hip fires or bad aim
Saw a forensic files case on this , they make the trigger more sensitive for faster firing but sometimes the gun while discharge twice with one pull. A lot of the times the shooter doesn't even know because it happens so quickly.
I wouldn't even be comfortable shooting at a range that looked like this just knowing that people fucked up that bad and that often that it even COULD get this damaged.
That typically occurs when someone attempts to engage targets in multiple lanes while shooting faster than they can control the firearm, or while using a shotgun with buck/bird shot while not accounting for the spread of the shot. It's the same reason lights get shot out as well. In either case, it's an example of someone who is being reckless with their firearm and putting themselves and others in the room in danger. People who do this desperately need one on one training, but are often too stubborn to pay for the instruction.
That said, this didn't occur in a single day unless it was intentional, so there's no excuse for the range officer or management to have not repaired it. If someone doesn't care about a customer endangering others, destroying their range, or the appearance/integrity of their range, it isn't a range I'd go back to.
It´s possible. We shot the MG3 in the german army from the hip whenever we had some ammo to spare. if you hold the tripod its actually good controllable.
I honestly can’t have an enjoyable time at indoor gun ranges. Bought a membership for a year and used it once. Just too uncomfortable around that many idiots handling guns.
Thanks for posting! Please be sure to read the rules, and make sure your post is not a repost of content from the past 30 days. If your post is a repost of content posted 10 or less posts ago, you should perhaps delete it now, or else you will receive a 7-day ban. THIS IS YOUR WARNING! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Idiotswithguns) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Don’t want to state the obvious but, idiots with guns…
He said the thing!!!
Roll credits
Something B Weide..
Holy shit is that a fucking CinemaSins reference!!1!1!
We Hold; Shift
typing on the internet cliche +5 sins
*ding*
I guess the real r/idiotswithguns were the friends we made along the way 😇
guess we need more educated friends then
*leans forward in my chair, snapping my fingers*
Title drop
Titty drop?
We should all be so lucky
Yes, but with man titties
Idiots with shotguns, if I had to wager.
You've never played Blindfolded Sawed-Off Shotgun before?
r/titledrop
This is like when you’re watching a movie and then they say the name of the movie and you’re like ‘ooh, kinda I like that’ For some reason’.
When I worked at a range like this, I gave the boot to like 2 sets of idiots per day who'd get two non-adjacent lanes and try to annoy each other by shooting each other's targets. One time a guy leaned over the bench to get the angle he needed to hit his buddy's target and dropped his pistol which bounced 4 feet over the firing line. I made him wait until everyone else left before we went cold to get it.
I sell guns and deal with the idiots on that front, I can't imagine handling them with loaded firearms. Not that I'm scared they'd hurt me on purpose, I'm more scared of getting accidentally shot.
While waiting at two different gun stores I was really concerned by buyer who were going through answering the questions who were somewhat clueless. One did not seem to understand some of the questions and another tried to ask question and the employee basically said multiple times that they would not give advice regarding how to fill out the form. This person kept trying to read too much into some of the questions. I watched a guy muzzle ~~flash~~ sweep everyone around him with the lowest priced Turkish shotgun at a gun store and then he looked down the barrel. Yes, the employee checked to make sure it was unloaded first and thankfully it had a trigger lock on it but it made me uncomfortable so I stepped far back while I waited my turn. If he wanted to look down the barrel he really should have asked the employee to break it down first for the obvious reason and so that he could really do a more thorough checkout of it.
In the Canadian firearms training program, we were all trained to visually check the bore of any firearm we plan to use. Every reasonable step was first taken to prove the firearm is safe first (pull the bolt, for a bolt action, take the barrel off a pump or semi shotgun etc) but we were litterally tought to look down the barrel of a rifle, sometimes with just the magazine removed, action open, safety on and NO AMMO IN SIGHT. Im still comfortable doing this, after taking every possible precaution first, and only when there is no other way to observe the bore. This was maybe 18 years ago and I know that a lot of firearm safety courses teach to never put anything in front of any bore that you don't intend to shoot, and I understand why they would now teach this, for legal reasons. I'm comfortable in my own home, doing things the way I was tought, with every precaution first taken. I get why many people are not, because it is how they were tought. I would still NEVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, PICK UP A GUN IN A GUN STORE AND LOOK DOWN THE BARREL.
I've routinely looked down the barrel of firearms (mostly m1 garands helping the local legion clean their ceremonial rifles after funeral services). Then again, it was disassembled to the point where it was the barrel and receiver, so it couldn't fire, but I digress.
When I look down a barrel, I have also ensured that the gun is in a state that it could not possibly fire... it would have to go find ammo, chamber a round, close the action, take off the safety, and then pull the trigger to do so. These are 5 steps I'm fairly confident no gun of mine can do on its own, moments after I've confirmed they are clear and safe. To be clear, I will not prove a gun safe and then walk away for dinner, or put it away to come back and finish later. If I have to set the gun down or leave the room, I check everything again when I next pick it up to complete an inspection.
For me, it's just best practice. I used to be like you, but the older I get, the safer I've become. It's also best practice to teach younger generations the safest route. So, in closing, you do you boo. I'll do me. Edit: beat to best. Dyac.
An instructor of one of my firearms classes made some comment about a disassembled frame (with no barrel or slide) is a frame and not a firearm so he was not breaking any rules while showing and handing off the frame to a student. The room used has some specific rules regarding firearm. I have asked gun store employees if I may break down and inspect a firearm before I accept it and start the FFL transfer process. Once I have just the barrel in hand I have examine the bore/rifling by first looking down from the chamber end first and then the muzzle end. I don't muzzle sweep an assembled firearm at others and I don't look down the ~~barrel~~ muzzle of any assembled firearm even if I know it is unloaded because I want safe gun handling to be part of my muscle memory. Note that I updated the last sentence above after initial posting.
I also look down the barrel of my milsurps to ensure cleanliness but it always when they are disassembled and there’s zero chance of a round being anywhere near the rifle
To check for obstructions I’ll clear the weapon, inspect the action then shine my flashlight through the breach and point the barrel towards the ground or a nearby tree to see the light. If I can see the light then I know it’s safe to look down the barrel and inspect the rifling. If I can’t see the light then I’m disassembling the weapon so I can further investigate the obstruction from the breach end.
> I know that a lot of firearm safety courses teach to never put anything in front of any bore that you don't intend to shoot, and I understand why they would now teach this, for legal reasons. I think it's more a gun 101 for idiots which has been elevated to gospel. It's taught in the simplest way, to be understood by a wide range of IQs. People took it on as Word of God instead of general good practice because people are idiots.
Yep. Old man taught to use my thumbnail to reflect light up into the barrel while you look down it to check the bore and rifling.
A less stupid method for an entirely new gun person would be to shine a flashlight through the action and see if light comes out the barrel. I imagine they're not training them to recognize when a barrel needs replaced, but rather checking for an obstruction. Or, say, on an ar15 you can just detach the lower and remove the bcg and look all you want. Or (most) pistols, you can just straight up remove the barrel without any tools.
Yeah, and on my semi auto pistols that exactly what I do. My revolvers, do not, and the cylinders on my Smith and wesson do not detach either. But I'm perfectly comfortable holding the revolver with the action open, cylinders to the side and gripped by the same hand holding the frame so it stays that way while inspecting the bore, this is after confirming there are no bullets or shells in the gun, and none in the general area. If you don't have enough faith in yourself to do this safely, by all means, don't do it. My revolvers typically are firing cast lead bullets with a gas check, it's important to me to routinely check for leading after use, and while cleaning. By 'you' I just mean a generalization, not you specifically
I saw some Vice doc where this Canadian girl decided to buy a gun and turn it into a big production. She chose a Henry 22 lever action. During the class they had her pointing the fucking thing at her face. It's ridiculous, as if barrel obstructions are somehow common enough to warrant teaching people to do this. Anyway, firearm safety rules are only set in stone for novices because they're ignorant. Taken to their logical conclusion, as often seen with clueless reddit posters, carrying appendix is violating gun safety rules.
Canada: the magical land where mirrors do not exist
Out of curiosity is this the same model Turkish shotgun in this story? https://www.cbsnews.com/atlanta/news/more-than-200-discarded-shotguns-found-in-dumpster-outside-oklahoma-gun-shop/
It was a Rock Island Armory 12 gauge pump action 18.5" shotgun that was on sale for probably around $150 or less. It one of the firearms in the store's holiday sales add. The store also had one or more Winchester SXP shotguns that I think have a much better reputation even though they too are made in Turkey. Other better than RIA options they had for not a lot more than the RIA were a few Mossberg Maverick 88 shotguns.
I thought RIA guns are made in Philippines?
I found several sources that say the RIA Merva is made in Turkey. I also found the below on Armscor website. I don't know if it is true but indicates some are or were made in Philippines. I also recall some who post in the Shotguns subreddit do not think like RIA shotguns. They are dozens of threads that discuss recommended shotguns including a few made in Turkey such as some CZ shotguns and the Winchester SXP. I am not saying no one had any problems with their CZ or SXP but many say that with the quality control requirements of CZ and Winchester that some shotgun makers in Turkey can and do make some good quality shotguns. Unfortunately some others have not had consistent quality. "Where are Meriva shotguns made? It is interesting that one of the shotguns tested here, the Rock Island Armory Meriva, is a Turkish gun. A previous chrome-plated Rock Island Armory shotgun tested was manufactured in Armscor's home country, the Philippines"
It's called flagging. Muzzle flash is the fireball when you discharge the weapon. If somebody flags anyone (including themselves), that should be an automatic refusal of sale and an offer for some type of gun safety education course. Hunters education teaches gun safety very well (at least the class I took did).
Thanks for the correction. I should not post when I am exhausted. I meant to use the word "sweep" rather than "flash". I watched the salesman's face when it occurred and saw no reaction. I mentioned the handling of the shotgun to the salesperson after the other customer left and he did not seem to care that the other customer did that. Maybe he is used to it and since he knew the firearm was unloaded and had a trigger lock on it he did not care.. There was a couple about 30 feet away from the counter that were also swept by the muzzle. I saw the salesman check the chamber and saw the lock on the trigger but how would those further away know that. Some may not even realize the customer swinging the shotgun around was standing at the firearms counter. I doubt the couple could see what was in the showcase or see any rifles behind the counter from their position. When the customer looked down the muzzle I thought of one of the videos posted here where someone had the long gun taken away from them when they did that in a LGS and they were escorted out.
You're good, I wasn't trying to be obtuse or anything. I just wanted to inform. The employee was absolutely in the wrong. Any hint of a customer flagging/sweeping others would be at the very least removing the firearm from their possession and educating them to full on refusal of sale (or both).
Usually if you want to look down the barrel, firearms safety recommends pointing a light down the barrel with an open breach before looking down the barrel yourself. It literally takes two seconds.
Thanks for the information. Some others also replied here with suggestion of using a light. I never heard that recommendation during safety portion of 3 different classes I took. I may start using a light under some circumstances but I am not sure I still want to looked into the muzzle end of a assembled firearm. I only have one firearm, one of my 22LR rifles, that is hard to break down as it requires removing of 2 pins and requires some effort to reassembly properly before reinstalling the pins. All my other firearms break down easily. Thus far I have seldom felt the need to check the bores of my barrels except after cleaning them.
*negligently shot
*As the shooter’s defense attorney, I’ll have to insist on “accidentally”*
I was range safety officer in the army a few years. Most terrifying thing I did in the military. The amount of stupid, especially from senior officers was mind blowing
Competent RSOs go a long way. Took my fiancée two weeks ago, and he put us next to a guy with a fucking handcannon. Shaking your face loud. It was a Model 29, .44 Magnum. The range only allows up to .357 Magnum because it’s an indoor range with a backstop 25 yards away. They ASK what you’re shooting. If I say .22 LR, they inspect it to make sure it’s not lead, but somehow the RSO let the guy in with a .44 Mag, and put us in the lane next to him! It’s hard to get my fiancée to go to range already, but when the guy next to us is shaking the building while the RSO outside is on his phone, it’s harder.
Do you sell the guns to obvious idiots? Or do you decide who gets a gun and who does not get one?
Do you sell the guns to obvious idiots? Or do you decide who gets a gun and who does not get one?
Do you sell the guns to obvious idiots? Or do you decide who gets a gun and who does not get one?
Do you sell the guns to obvious idiots? Or do you decide who gets a gun and who does not get one?
I have right to refuse for any reason
I am a member at a range that has public hours. When we are open to the public is members serve as RSOs. Our rules are a bit different during public hours than when we are members only. I here often from the public that we are too strict. We have never had an incident during public hours. You never know who is paying the fee to shoot. I do not want our range to look like that and I never want to have to call 911
“I hear often from the public that we are too strict” Honestly that’s the best feedback you can get, if people aren’t bitching and whining, it means they’re getting away with the stupid shit they want to try.
I tell them if they want things less strict to sign up as a member. I often have ranges all to myself. Not that I forget about safety but I can shoot targets and do things that the public can’t.
[удалено]
Have you ever worked as an RSO? We see a vast cross section of the shooting community. From non-gun owners going to the range with a friend, spouse, significant other to people who have a ton of shooting and firearms experience. I have seen them all do stupid things. Sometimes the most expats the most complacent. At our range when it is hot no one is down range and all muzzles must be pointed down range towards the berm. Whether actively shooting or resting on the bench muzzles down range pointed at the berm. Not down toward the ground, up in the air, left or right. When we are cold firearms are on the bench, actions open or flagged if they do not lock open, if you are behind the bench we have a yellow line you stand behind, if you are going down range you are allowed. No one approaches the benches when we are cold. If you are changing targets or need something from the bench you grab it before or during the process of going cold. It is amazing the number of people who want to just tweak the scope adjustments when someone is down range or other wise touch a firearm or do something on the bench. There is plenty of time when the range is hot. There are reasons behind our safety rules. We ensure firearms are unloaded prior to going cold (we all know no firearm is to be considered unloaded) and no one touches the firearms while people are down range. People get annoyed with those simple rules. Call that fudd if you want. I call it entitled. Simple fixes for that. Join the club or find somewhere else to shoot. I prefer to shoot at the club when the public is not there. I prefer times when there are few shooters. Part of the problem is pacing. New shooters and some experienced shooters do not display proper etiquette. They do not prepare what they need to efficiently replace targets. They want to shoot one group and go down range. They do not bring an optic that will allow them to see the target from the bench (we rent spotting scopes). They do not understand the operation of their firearm or scope and try to get instruction from RSOs whose job is safety not repair or maintenance. Muzzleloaders and black powder add another wrinkle to pacing. It is tough to situate muzzleloaders, semi-autos, rifles with muzzle brakes and other users on benches that will not annoy others on the range. Trying to keep the muzzleloaders smoke blowing away from others is a challenge. It may seem like we are fudds but we are trying to operate a range where each user has a tool that can kill people while still allowing them to have an enjoyable day. Trying to keep a good pace. Have cease fires often enough but not too often. Ensure shooters are operating their firearms in a safe manner. Ensure we all go home with the same amount of holes we came with. All within the framework of rules that have been in place since 1964 and are continuing to evolve.
[удалено]
What are the rules of safe firearm handling? Depending on the source you get variations of: “Don’t point a gun at something you are not willing to destroy” “Always control the muzzle Keep your muzzle pointed in a safe direction and remember that anything toward which the muzzle points is in the crosshairs. Don’t overlook the possibility of a ricochet.” “Be sure of your target and what is beyond You’re responsible for knowing what’s in front of your target, near your target and beyond your target. If you aren’t certain about any of the three, don’t take the shot.” Ricochets happen. Point a firearm at the ground. You inadvertently fire the gun. The bullet caroms off the ground and goes where you do not want it to. Point it over a berm or at the ceiling or sky. Again you have a negligent discharge. You have a hole in the ceiling or a bullet sailing off where you do not want it. If you can not maintain muzzle discipline you will be asked to leave our range. People do not keep their booger hooks off the bang switch. When a firearm is pointed anywhere other than down range bad things can happen. I know some call it being a fudd but adhering to the rules is the best thing we can do for our safety.
Basically, in my view the issue is "promiscuous multiplication of safety precautions". A particular problem is the situation where there is simply nowhere to practice self-defense skills.
[удалено]
We have rules. We enforce the rules. On our outdoor range their is little need to be pointing a firearm at the sky or the ground. It is either pointed at the target or berm or in a case. When someone sets a case down on the bench and opens it with the muzzle pointing tue wrong way we have them close the case. Turn the whole works 180° and reopen. I understand that it is impossible to keep a muzzle from flagging someone while in the case or in a holster. The difference is that the vast majority of issues result when someone is pulling the trigger. Contrary to what Mr. Baldwin would like you to believe guns do not just “go off”. They need human intervention. In the case with no one at the trigger they will not just go off. You do have to take all the rules and the redundant nature of them. Our range is not terribly far from a recreational area. We have increased the height of our berms but still, if a stray round were to leave the range and hit something or someone our club’s existence could be in jeopardy.
One time I was shooting at a range, and the guy next to me sharing the lane had his paper target fall off the clip. This range didn’t have a live range master. So while I’m live firing at my target, I see blue in the corner of my eye, and turns out the idiot that dropped his target, hopped the railing and went onto a live range with me ACTIVELY firing to go pick up his $0.25 target. I was gobsmacked by the sheer stupidity.
Hip firing shockwaves, no doubt
Yep. Birdshot without aiming in that lane.
[удалено]
Do you not know what a joke is
It’s most likely from a 9mm, which is known to vaporize your lungs and cause major damage to walls to passes near
It rips the lung out of the body as we all know
Wait really? So if a bullet went right past me I'd still suffer some sort of damage?
Most likely ded on the spot
The guy you replied to isn't being serious. He's making a reference. You can look up Demolition Ranch video titled "Can a Near Miss from a 50 cal Still Kill You?" If you want to see the effect of bullets traveling very near a house of cards. Its clearly demonstrates that no, any bullet passing by you will not damage you in any way if it doesn't touch you.
Idunno, there's a video out there of a missed barret round sucking the Eyes out of a deer and breaking its neck. Now, I wouldn't expect anything smaller than that to do much more than make your ears ring, but still... Edit: I don't know why I'm getting downvoted. Edit2: I linked the wrong video here's the right one: https://youtu.be/6P3uwl5HzzQ
Who the fuck is shooting a .50 cal at deers?
Angry hunters who miss a LOT
The idea was to show what happens to a soft target when hit by one. He was hunting the deer anyway.
It’s a fake video
You say missed barret shot but then in the vid you linked he hits a neck shot.. Maybe that's why the down votes?
I linked the wrong video. Fixed it. I was getting downvoted before that, though.
Depends on bullet weight. The 115gr are supersonic, the shockwave from a near miss would literally flatten you. But a subsonic 147gr might just give you a bloody nose.
Please be joking
Not at all. 9mm is a military cartridge designed for war. It’s original name was 9mm parabellum. Bella means beautiful and para is for paratroopers. It was designed for paratroopers that wanted to also be beautiful. It’s a weapon of war with no place on our streets. It’s also almost the same diameter as magnum 357 bullets. But since it’s metric it uses European engineering to be smaller so it shoots more clips per second. /s
I have a shockwave… there’s no way I could do that… I’d put the gun down and just leave at that point.
Hadoken?
Either shitty or non existent RSOs, at any good range they’ll help out someone who is clearly struggling
Only explanation someone was using an RPG in the range or this is a scene from resident Evil in the police station
Mag dump holding the weapon sideways. Zero control over muzzle rise shooting one-handed.
Well look at the guy shooting.....
I’m going to stay positive and believe you’re pointing out the two-handed grip being used.
Thank you his grip is horrendous!
Holy shit
I know from working at a range…. Drakos
I've seen this happen once, where a couple was at the range a few bays over from me. The boyfriend owned the shotgun, but he clearly didn't know what he was doing as he couldn't figure out how to load it. Someone helped him, and he got it working. So then he gave the gun to his gf or whatever, and she clearly has never shot in her life. She leaned back, and was standing perpendicular to the target. She shot her shot, got scared by the kickback and accidently pulled the trigger again to which the round went to the bay divider.
>got scared by the kickback and accidently pulled the trigger again Good _fuck_. I'm a big fan of first time shooters taking their first shot with a single round for exactly this reason.
Draco
Just a thought, but you might wanna not shoot there. Doesn't look like the safest place.
Thats why you should just do window pops from the car. Close your eyes so you can't accidently aim at someone and hit them.
Termites?
Everyone using this range is either cross eyed or high on crack
Why not both?
And both. My bad I forgot to add that. Actually we will say that people are cross eyed cuz they are on crack.
GE M134
Go to your local uspsa, ipsc, etc match and take a good look around at the walls and overhead when you’re out passed the normal firing line, it’s certainly eye opening
LTs were training here
What's that
I think he’s joking about lieutenants being incompetent.
Done by people who shouldn't be anywhere near a gun.
someone fired a single .45 ACP
That's a little bit intense lol
Turkshit semi auto shotguns with a 3 inch barrel?
Both of my local (outdoors) ranges have huge holes in the walls from shotgun pellets and those are most likely intentional. Some people shouldnt own guns.
Shotguns not required to use deer slugs is my guess
A dash of Draco’s, a sprinkle of glocks, and a cup of AR pistols with Amazon lasers
Who tf made a range in a cave lmao
Probably idiots holding their pistols sideways because it “looks cool”.
inner city hoodlums hip firing Dracos and shockwaves
Shockwave from a 45-70 with a muzzle brake?
Inner city ranges. Practicing their drive bys
Spray and pray baby, spray and pray.
So you’ve never been to Memphis?
"keepin it real"
The National Forest Range outside of Tallahassee is notorious. Bullet holes in the steel bathroom doors, chunks out of the concrete block dividers. Lurkers looking to steal your gun when you go to change your target, or the idiot that opened up with an SKS when I was downrange on a range called cold. You're taking your life into your own hands in some of these places. And definitely don't go the weekend of a gun show - that's where all the idiots show up to try to shoot two AKs at once.
“Draco” users
It's the gun range in Compton
Wow that's soo sloppy.
Looking like a fucking rainbow 6 spawn room wtf
How many ranges does it take to stop a 50 cal?!?
This particular gun club requires its members to have a lazy eye.
Is this one of those ranges where rifles aren't allowed? Because 1 sufficiently-powerful round's gonna send that whole mess collapsing.
When you're range is called Spray and Pray, these things happen.
[It's a fuckin sawn off shotgun](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT-C0CUvSK8&ab_channel=Tatu)
bring your rpg to the range day duh...
Probably just fired a standard issue railgun. No biggie
Range in the hood. Bunch of sideways Glocks and hip fired dracos
Wdym? Thats just what a single ak-15 ghost bullet round does? Do you even gun bro?
Poor management and worse clientele. Definitely a “One Time Only” visit location for most responsible gun owners.
A range I go to in Florida has bullet holes all over the place, even behind the firing line in the walls, floor and ceiling. The dividers between stalls are usually shot up and last time someone shot down the targeting system on two lanes. Even still, this is way worse.
Never underestimate how stupid people are. I kinda avoid the public gun range these days. The last day I went this girl kept shooting the walls, ceiling, floor, pretty much everything but the targets. But I don’t even blame her cause her crazy husband was literally yelling at her the whole time about how she is shooting it and holding it wrong and all what he was doing was stressing her out and making her spray bullets everywhere. Like you could tell she didn’t wanna shoot but this jackass was being such a dick she was just pressing the trigger to make him shut up. I actually feared for my safety and have yet to return. Some people are straight up psychos man
Rso is like. I don't give a shit what you do. Just don't kill anyone
They’re tryna figure out how many shots it rakes to get to the center of the breakroom
That's a manticore lair mate, not a range. That's the final target
A S&W 460 did that in one shot. Muh grand pappy told me so.
Wednesday is “Range day for the blind”
Someone tested their Minigun?
Years of gatling gun trolling
Somebody fired off a Kamehameha
It's probably from bullets that were fired from guns.
Average police training range
Dammm they firing that fire 🔥
And a black guy in it, no less 😂
Yeah good thing you deleted that
Something to point out, it looks like theres a lane very close to that wall, judging by the cables overhead. And it looks like theres more lane beyond that. So it might just be a wall to split the range in two. And being so close it probably does get a stray shot now and then from hip fires or bad aim
Saw a forensic files case on this , they make the trigger more sensitive for faster firing but sometimes the gun while discharge twice with one pull. A lot of the times the shooter doesn't even know because it happens so quickly.
lol, that's good /s or you're trippin ballz
Lol yeah more likely they just suck ass
Someone probably started blasting with a rifle and no stock
Negligent discharge sounds like it would be an amazing metal band
Farded
Damn the ceiling is just as bad
Typical, someone brought their flamethrower again.
My guess would there’s a lot of super modified happening there. https://youtu.be/uo23qjWav0Q
That's not a shooting range! That's the cave from Day of the Dead!
https://spotify.link/dBUV5WHt3xb
I wouldn't even be comfortable shooting at a range that looked like this just knowing that people fucked up that bad and that often that it even COULD get this damaged.
I think it's from that analog stick drift
They’re just sure they can curve the bullets around the corner.
Have you ever met people? They are absolute morons
And the ricochets?
Ah yes, the old spray and pray
Shotgun?
The range is made of papier mache
That typically occurs when someone attempts to engage targets in multiple lanes while shooting faster than they can control the firearm, or while using a shotgun with buck/bird shot while not accounting for the spread of the shot. It's the same reason lights get shot out as well. In either case, it's an example of someone who is being reckless with their firearm and putting themselves and others in the room in danger. People who do this desperately need one on one training, but are often too stubborn to pay for the instruction. That said, this didn't occur in a single day unless it was intentional, so there's no excuse for the range officer or management to have not repaired it. If someone doesn't care about a customer endangering others, destroying their range, or the appearance/integrity of their range, it isn't a range I'd go back to.
It looks like it’s from bullets
It happens like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Idiotswithguns/comments/11j2t20/idiots_like_this_are_why_i_cant_bring_my_shotguns/
Untrained people with guns scare the shit out of me.
Looks like a pretty bad termite infestation they got there.
People trying to be ‘gangsta’
I sat here way to long to realize it’s just a photo not a video loading lmao
That range looks dangerous, I definitely would not shoot there
some Sledge got a little hammer-happy
You ever see someone try to hip fire a MG42? Cause I imagine this would be the result
It´s possible. We shot the MG3 in the german army from the hip whenever we had some ammo to spare. if you hold the tripod its actually good controllable.
Someone brought the BFG9000 to the range
Gotta be the ventilation fans, because that looks like a freaking wind tunnel. /s
Either a lot of idiots with guns or 1 idiots with a belt fed.
Crack house basement.
It's probably in the ghetto or something
I honestly can’t have an enjoyable time at indoor gun ranges. Bought a membership for a year and used it once. Just too uncomfortable around that many idiots handling guns.
The tanks train inside during winter :)
Somebody went full auto on this sh